Pathfinder General /pfg/
Planescape: Pathfinder Edition: How would you do it? Would you play it? Anyone here still know it?
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Old Thread: >>48296751
>>48300974
http://www.planewalker.com/
Would you play a blinkling natural/unarmed attack guru?
>>48301014
>would you play a blinkling
no.
What cantrip would you cast irl
Hardmode:No Prestidigitation
>>48300974
We were still on page 4!!
RRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>48301014
>>48301029
Prestidigi..
Mending?
>>48300974
Well Sigil is around to do plane hopping at low level, so I would do that. Also make the state of the factions more Gangs of New York, with the Lady being either a nuclear option or some sort of genius locus.
>>48301014
>>48300974
My campaign's on Faerun right now, but the eventual vague plan is to have them scooped up by Ravenloft, and once they've spent a few levels doing the Dark Powers dirty deeds, they'll be ejected into Sigil. Or maybe they'll die. I dunno.
>>48301029
Prestidigi-
fuck
Uh.. Breeze or Scoop probably.
>>48301029
Thaumaturg-- wait this isn't /5eg/
Probably Guidance if I'm being serious, or Summon Instrument if I'm being wacky.
>>48301029
Create Water
>>48301037
Definitely mending. Think of the money you could make with that... most things are fully repaired in about six seconds, and even complex shit can be repaired bit by bit, if you treat each broken component as one object on its own.
>>48300974
>>48300496
See >>48300609.
And I don't build characters for fun. I only build them for actual campaigns, but when it's for pathfinder, I do plan then all the way to 20. You basically have to, or you're walking into a bear trap.
My homebrewan would be game design stuff. Not some theory craft character build I'm never going to use.
>>48301019
If you have to do it to correct your sleep once a week, it's still dirt cheap. The stuff is like $5 a box. I bought it for some allergies I just started getting, and the fact that it knocks me flat on my ass was a helpful accident.
>>48301141
Mending takes 10 minutes to cast, anon.
Still, point remains.
>>48300974
Planescape is remembered fondly for its art and because of Torment, but it's actually a pretty bad setting. The factions don't make sense, the planes are mostly based on alignment (which is dumb) and the Cant is fucking obnoxious.
>>48301141
Mhmm, I'm imagining computer repair. Most of those are going to be very light weight making it easy to fix.
>>48301141
On second thought, is occult allowed? Because I might just go with telekinetic projectile, for no other reason than to pelt annoying people with random small objects.
Fuck money, petty vengeance is far more satisfying.
Taunting Laugh or Black Seraph Style?
So /pfg/, have you?
>>48301152
Oh... fuck. I have been using that spell wrong for such an incredibly long time. Don't tell my GM.
>>48301183
Is that just the magic version of weird science?
>>48300974
>Planescape: how would you do it
>2e Planescape books.
>3e Planescape PDFs
>3e monsters for shit paizo lacks.
>Drop paizo daemons and use yugoloths.
>Use pf compatible outsiders where available.
>Homebrew monster classes/archetypes/whatever for the PCs.
>Start at level 7 or 8.
Done and done.
>>48301180
Wait, what? How is that a choice, one is a maneuver, the other is a feat. What situation are you in that you somehow have to choose between the two?
>>48301029
Ghost Sound would be a lot of fun.
>>48301211
Using afeat to grab a maneuver or the style, maybe?
>>48301183
No, because that seems like an incredibly easy way to send your dick several planes of existence away from the rest of your body, or turn it into a bulette, or something else terrifying and horrible.
>>48301211
OH shit, whoosp. I meant Signature Skill (Intimidate) or Black Seraph Style
I'm going for the whole style line, but thinking of whether it's a good idea to put it off
>>48301029
Cure Minor Wounds.
>>48301029
I mostly play Spheres, so, the Cantrip feat. Nice.
>>48301236
Aha, gotcha. In that case, I have no idea. Depends on how soon you can get the Style one that lets you treat feared creatures as good for profane damage, since that can be a huge boost unless you're in an evil campaign that's full of good guys trying to kill you. Get that one as soon as you can, otherwise I'd say it's mostly whatever you feel like.
>>48301270
I can get it at 7. So the style feat then?
>>48301244
Wrong edition.
>>48301246
I discovered Spheres just as a friend started up a game with a very strict "no 3rd party" rule. This has made me very, very sad... especially since Spheres finally gives me a way to play a dedicated shapeshifter without all the Druid baggage, or the half-assed almost shapeshifting that they begrudgingly gave to classes like the Ranger.
>>48301097
"Note from Jason Bulmahn: The following spells are different from your standard cantrips. They are rare cantrips. Spellcasters that gain access to all 0-level spells at 1st level do not gain access to rare cantrips. A spellcaster gains access to rare cantrips only by uncovering their secrets in some other way. Some are guarded by jealous mages, while others are lost in missing libraries or molder on forgotten scrolls."
What the fuck? What warrants this?
>>48301287
What level are you now? If you have a feat between now and level 7, then you can pick whichever one you want, since you'll have both by the time you hit 7 to take the other style feat. But if you're level 5, for example, and you won't be getting another feat before 7, I'd definitely suggest taking Style now so you have it in time to take the next one at 7.
>>48301029
Stabilize. I might never need it, but I'll be really glad to have it if I do.
>>48301325
I'm 5 now, working through advancement. Also, for the +1 every 5 levels, does that mean I get the next extra point at 6?
>>48301349
>Also, for the +1 every 5 levels, does that mean I get the next extra point at 6?
Nope, that would read something like "+1 for every 5 levels above 1st level". If it says every 5 levels, it means every level that's a multiple of 5, which means that your bonus should be +2 at level 5, +3 at level 10, and so on.
>>48301416
Alright cool. If it's 2 right away then I'm grabbing that shit on the quickfast
thanks man
>>48301159
Yeah, Planescape kinda reeks of being a heavy-handed reaction to WoD.
>>48301316
oh god, which of those was rare?
Also: Fuck Bulmahn. Just sayin'.
>>48301441
Both, in fact.
Lighting anything on fire or saving the life of a man with his brains dashed out on the pavement? Anyone can do that! A gentle breeze? You'd better be prepared for a QUEST!
>>48301441
>mfw THEY'RE BOTH RARE
I think I remember an ability that allows you to warp to enemies that are scared and attack of opportunity them. Anyone remember what it was?
>>48301029
Mending. Best cantrip spell.
Why are you idiots choosing mage hand or prestidigitation? In real life, they're worthless parlor tricks.
Mending gets you a nice cushy job fixing priceless works of art and repairing highly valuable equipment with a flick of the wrist.
>>48301558
>Flick of the wrist
Well, ten minutes of wrist-flicking.
>>48301558
Prestidigitation can nab you a cushy job too. Being able to change the flavor on anything is great for restaurants, and being able to clean so easily is neat-o!
>>48301558
>flick of the wrist
AND YOUR DEAD BABY
>>48301582
Prestidigitation can handle some art repair (anything that's just cleaning instead of physical damage) and can do much else besides.
>>48301588
yeah, I'm sure the restaurant you're working on will save up millions of dollars on condiments and soap.
>>48300974
I've been planning a game with no one to play it with for two years now where the party are town guards in Sigil.
Weird Sigil shit would keep happening to them as they struggle to uphold what little law and order there is to be had.
>>48301643
Exotic dishes and flavoring for cheap can make your restaurant all the rage and give it a new spin that most others can't match. It's a niche that's really hard to fill.
>>48301183SemennerBard here.
Yeah, when I'm bored or roleplaying I'd cast Entice Fey or Summon Monsterous Waifu
>>48301536
Inescapable Fetter of the Eternal Guardian?
>>48301799
I think that's it, yeah
Also, does having a huge threatened area mean you can just attack of opportunity anyone who provokes anywhere within it?
>>48301197
>Start at level 7 or 8.
Why not just start the game at level 20 if you want to play god fantasies?
Pathfinder was designed to start at level 1.
>>48302032
(you)
Ok so I'm going for a bad touch cleric.
Anything I need to know aside from spell focus to increase DC, metamagic x3 to qualify for spell perfection, preferred spell and sacred summons?
>>48302032
Fuck off, touhoufag
>>48302052
spell focus is good especially since most bad touch cleric spells are from the necromancy school.
>>48302106
That's... that's not even close to being right.
>>48302106
That's not even 2hu, you can tell by...
>that isn't a touhou character
>Using the term "god fantasies" like a negative thing instead of building them
>Claiming 1 is the starting level when they regularly admit that many of their builds only start and come online at 5/7/9th level
I'm considering playing a dex-melee Mesmerist, relying mostly on Painful Stare and vital strike of all things to do damage. I know this isn't optimal, but is it viable?
Related: Vexing Daredevil - is it worth it without a way to feint as a swift action?
>>48302143
>3/4ths BAB
>vital strike
I'm sorry, but no. There's just no way.
>>48302032
with my group, we always start lvl 3, enoug to not die to a house cat and enough that multiclass character can have the 2 classes they want but not high enough that early game stuff is totally bypassed
>>48302143
you're better off taking rogue levels and using mesmerist powers to make you better at setting up sneak attacks, or going whip-build and just tripping the fuck out of everyone that comes near
>>48302143
Half-Orc Vox
>>48302150
. . . Have you looked at how painful stare works, out of curiosity? Because a single big strike is how to work with it, not multiple attacks.
>>48302151
Yeah, 3-4 is a really solid starting point. High enough to customize, but low enough level that your character is still definitely a newbie.
>>48301159
Actually a lot of the individual flavor and feel was excellent as well. Stuff like the planewalker's guide was pure gold. Cant was obnoxious however yes.
When you brought all of some of these things together, like the factions, it got kinda retarded, but even the WAY the planes were done despite being all-alignments was well executed.
It's like a really good crispy orange chicken with a side of egg.
It was supposed to be duck with a side of eggrolls. The flavors are nice, there's plenty of spices, everything is cooked well...
But it was supposed to be duck with a side of eggrolls.
Damn good chicken tho.
>Most fun and varied choices for Sacred summons cleric is for CE
>CE is the hardest to play without either being distruptive or being seen as a hack.
>>48301183
I've always preferred "Vedi, Vici, Veni" to the other way around.
I came, I saw, I conquered just feels like some ancient roman "JIZZED. IN, MY PANTS."
Intelligence:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/clever-wordplay
>Benefit: Choose one Charisma-based skill. You attempt checks with that skill using your Intelligence modifier instead of your Charisma modifier.
Intelligence:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/student-of-philosophy
>Benefit(s): You can use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Charisma modifier on Diplomacy checks to persuade others and on Bluff checks to convince others that a lie is true. (This trait does not affect Diplomacy checks to gather information or Bluff checks to feint in combat).
Intelligence:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/magic-traits/pragmatic-activator
>Benefit: You may use your Intelligence modifier when making Use Magic Device checks instead of your Charisma modifier.
Intelligence/Wisdom:
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Cunning%20Liar
>Regional
>You were forced into hiding or willingly went on the run at a young age, and learned to reading others’ interests to inform your lies. You can use your Intelligence or Wisdom modifier in place of your Charisma modifier on Bluff checks.
Wisdom:
Spymaster's Handbook:
>Persuasive Insight (Faith): You were converted to your faith or taught to bargain with spirits for magic by a figure of inspiring insight who taught you to use keen observation in all dealings. You can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Charisma modifier on Diplomacy checks to ask favors or gain influence (Ultimate Intrigue 102). During a verbal duel (Ultimate Intrigue 176), you can use your Wisdom modifier in place of your Charisma modifier when using tactics you assigned to Diplomacy or Wisdom-based skills.
Charisma:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/faith-traits/irrepressible
>Benefit(s): You can use your Charisma modifier in place of your Wisdom modifier when attempting Will saving throws against charm and compulsion effects.
When will Wisdom and Charisma be given more traits to be on par with Intelligence?
>>48302246
CG has the best ones though. Can't beat Azatas
>>48302289
probably about the same time you stop posting
>>48302252
Ego expultrice rectum in omni tempore mea Braccae iuxta me erant
Et cum sumus manibus ejus quasi habens sexus me
Non ego te faciam ACERBUS Just vocare FUROR
Ego gerunt Flexilis sua semper necessitas,
Ego cuz
Mea Braccae in expultrice!
>>48302309
Why so bully?
>>48302301
You eat shit and get nothing worthwhile for SM 6,7 and 8 though. Bralani spam shooting lightning bolts is crap and you know it.
>Hit level 4 in my game today
>Still no idea if I'm building my Inquisitor right
I'm having fun with him, at least.
Took Flames of the Faithful as my new spell, hoping it will help continue the trend of my masterwork short sword being my only reliable weapon.
>>48302289
You can get WIS to intimidate with an inquisition.
Nobody fucking cares about Charisma.
I use this book a lot as a DM to make encounters more interesting. I've probably made about 4 Battle Lords to support and lead the opposition against my players. Since I figure it's reached just about max sales, I felt like showing it to /tg/.
Gonna dump the class an feats, if you want I'll also dump archetypes.
>>48302425
Fricken love Auras and Drills. Easy to understand, a decent amount of customization, and sometimes unique ways to buff allies.
>>48302345
The Conversion inquisition (or really, any inquisition) is much more difficult to acquire than a trait. It absolutely requires a one-level dip, which not all characters can afford.
It is insulting how Wisdom's Persuasive Insight is far narrower than Intelligence's Clever Wordplay or Student of Philosophy.
The only things that can possibly vindicate Charisma are ghost syrup and leadership feats. The two tend to be viewed as "cheesy" ban targets, whereas the Intelligence traits are seldom perceived as ban-worthy.
Even Dreamscarred Press seems to think that Charisma is equal to Intelligence and Wisdom (see: the Brutality Blade archetype turning the soulknife Charisma-based, and the Daring Hero prestige letting initiators and soulknives become Charisma-based), when a switch from Intelligence or Wisdom to Charisma is a major downgrade unless ghost syrup and/or leadership feats are allowed.
>>48302443
Love that the Noble Auras grant both a good skill bonus and another benefit that will come in handy with that character.
>>48302458
>Dual Command
Stack that shit man
>>48302171
>My rapier's damage dice are 2d6 at level 8!
>>48302171
it has more to do with vital strike, and how it has BaB requirements.
>>48302465
>>48302458
>>48302458
Greater combat drills seem more like what you'd find a army comander having
And then Imperial auras actually give you some in game power to gather such a force
>-The hunter's animal companion functions at 1half/2× their level.
I'm assuming this means at half level? If so, fuuuuuck you.
>The ranger gets hunter's bond at 1st level and functions at effectively on par druid level.
So they're a worse casting Hunter? Fuuuuuck you.
>-The ranger and paladin casts spells at 1st level and can cast up to 6th level spells.
Reasonable, but now why do the Hunter and Warpriest exist?
>-Fighter/(un)chained rogue/ (un)chained barb/(un)chained monk archetypes can continually stack on top of each other in spite of not being able to.
I don't even know what the fuck you're trying to say here: the martial classes can take Archetypes that buy off features they no longer have? They can take Archetypes that all change the same feature as long as they don't trade it away in full? They can take multiple Archetypes but they must not conflict (which they can do anyway)? Fuuuuuck you for not being clear.
So you're 3 fuck yous out of four, which is bad. The main things you seem to be trying to fix are martials not getting class abilities worth a damn and the shared existence of the Hunter and Ranger.
The latter is easy: pick one and delete the other. You can just say no, like DARE. If that bothers you, count the Ranger among the martial ranks and let them stack shit like Guide, Trapper and Freebooter to make them a Full BAB striker that isn't the Slayer. Or, use the first and third options, excise the Hunter and tell people to play a Nature Fang Druid if they want a more caster focused pet class.
The former is hard: the Unchained Rogue and either Barbarian punch at about the highest weight a pure martial can: URogue as a mobile single shot striker/debuffer (Scout + Rake/Thug, focused on Intimidate and/or Sap Mastery) and Barbarian as a facefucking charge build that can turn into a tank at the level martials stop mattering. (Beast Totem + CAGM). The Fighter and Monk can get there, but with specific Archetypes.
>>48302473
>what is painful stare
>>48302500
That one I'll give you, but since Painful Stare is only once per round it's still a better option than full attacking.
>>48302501
Artilerist gives a decent replacement for Gunslingers
Soldier works decently in humanoid campaigns
Medic allows actual decent healing and stats removal.
>>48302523
It's really not
>one chance to hit and proc painful stare
vs
>several chances to hit and proc painful stare
>>48302535
Scout and one of the Auras from earlier let you turn your allies into decent sneakers, safer in the surprise round, and better initiative
>>48302543
True, but if your first attack misses your 3/4 BAB isn't going to do your subsequent attacks any favors.
What's the consensus on Vexing Daredevil? And related, is there any way to feint as a swift action?
>>48302563
Most of the feats are very situational and not worth it, but the training feats for more Battle Lord specializations are gold.
>>48302517
Nah, meant 1 and a half to 2 times their class level.
The ranger, hunter, warpriest and paladin exist in their own niche and if one class is allowed over another.
People continue to play core only games for some reason, and these slight modifiers to the classes help the players.
Thanks for the analysis though, fucker.
Is Bilious Strike worth it?
>>48302517
I'm saying that if you're taking an archetype and it conflicts with another archetype/other archetypes that trades away the same class features, it's still acceptable.
Like another anon said, an armor master-weapon master would then be a combination that is perfectly fine, not to mention others.
>>48302574
Vexing Daredevil gives up a lot of nice stuff (bold stare, mainly, thus removing your ability to ignore mindfuck immunity) in exchange for some pretty mediocre looking things. Moonlight Stalker Feint lets you feint as a swift, but costs like six feats (only 3 for vexing daredevil though). It requires that you have concealment, but that's easy enough if you just cast Blur or Displacement first.
Building Horror
Thursday, July 14, 2016
Just three short weeks until Horror Adventures emerges from the shadows! This week, I'm going to focus on the material in the book that helps GMs enrich horror games, from rules to advice.
New rules for a more nuanced fear track with seven levels, as well as for sanity and madness, allow your group to play around with the psychological consequences of the terrible events that are all too common in a horror game. The fear track has a split between lesser fear (which can cause increasing weakness but doesn't make you lose control of your character) and greater fear (where your character is so frightened that they can't help but act on it). Sanity is a sort of mental pool of hit points, and losing too much at once exposes you to a new madness (of increasing severity if your current sanity is below half your maximum). Of course, even if you lose sanity a little at a time, losing all your sanity causes you to completely lose your grip on reality.
>>48302650
I was thinking of playing a Fetchling, so I'll eventually get displacement as a SLA. Shame about requiring blind fight and combat expertise for the Moonlight line - they all seem pretty good for a mesmerist. You can't even cheese combat expertise with dirty fighting in this case, which really pisses me off.
>>48302660
The environments section contains 30 different creepy locations and hazards, each with their own rules. Locations include pools where a creature's reflection shows their true self (though sometimes, after you trust them, the pool will show your friend to have been replaced by a horrific creature even if she wasn't) and godless voids where divine power can't reach. Hazards range from weak threats witch lights that lead you into a trap and grasping undergrowth that actively impedes you, to major dangers like an honest-to-Desna bottomless pit and the dread apocalypse fog, which animates all corpses within into zombies. Environments also includes rules for domains of evil, dark pockets of supernatural activity embedded in a plane, plus a few horrific traps and a brief look at nightmare dreamscapes.
We also have sections for you on curses and horrific diseases, providing a variety of new twists on both topics, including curse templates like death curse and generational curse, disease templates like incurable, magic-resistant, plague, and virulent, tips on creating your own curses. There's even new diseases that all follow their own tracks of progression, like Unchained diseases, but much more personalized and gruesome; for instance bloody end causes blood to seep through your skin as you become prone to fits of rage.
>>48302660
The fleshwarping rules are the most PC-friendly of the bunch, at least if the PCs are evil enough to use them. They allow for three sorts of neat fleshwarps: true fleshwarping, where you make a new creature from several old creatures, fleshcrafting, where you graft tentacles, antennae, tails, and more onto a creature, and fleshwarp mutations, which are usually unintentional results of failed experiments, radiation, or other mutagenic experiences.
The haunts section is one of the true gems of the entire book. First of all, it contain delightfully twisted haunts from CR 1/4 all the way to the incredibly deadly CR 20 twisted wish haunt (pictured here, as Valeros wishes for more ale). It also has new haunt elements like elusive and latent. But the coolest part is probably the variant haunts, which shows how to use the haunt rules to create experiences other than hauntings from dead souls that are dealt with in ways other than positive energy. The variant haunt types are dimensional instabilities (places where the veil between the Material Plane and another plane is thin), maddening influences (tied to the reality-warping influence of eldritch beings and defeated with dangerous Knowledge), magical scars (places where dozens of powerful spells were hurled together), and psychic haunts (gatherings of emotional energy that can be defeated by calming them down with Diplomacy). Each variant also comes with an example haunt.
>>48302660
In terms of monsters, we have a template for dread lords who rule evil domains, three hive creatures to go with the hive corruption, the Jason-like implacable stalker template (Vorhees, not Bulmahn) that can appear behind you and resurrect itself in your nightmares, the apostle kyton template for those transfigured by kytons, the trompe l'oeil (a creature that emerges from a painting), unknown (a fey that feeds off mental energies and erodes others' psyches until they too become unknown), and the waxwork creature template for creatures made of wax. There's simple templates associated with the theme of each corruption, in case you need to quickly and efficiently create a chimera whose dragon head is a construct, a dragon that turns into a tyrannosaurus rex every full moon, a vampiric unicorn, or a vegepygmy possessed by the spirit of the creature it once was. There's also two variant types of werewolves and the familial lich, which uses its own family line as a phylactery.
>>48302613
Bilious Strike is one of the most powerful 4th-level maneuvers in all of Path of War. It inflicts tremendous damage and is a guaranteed nauseate against most creatures that are not constructs, undead, or behemoths. Those who survive the strike and fail their saving throw are out of the battle for all intents and purposes, and those who succeed are still action-denied for a round.
It is completely overpowered for its level and could stand to be rewritten.
>>48302660
The "Running Horror Adventures" chapter, by master of horror Wes Schneider, is another of the books gems, particularly for me, as I've always wanted advice on how to make my horror games work out better. The chapter highlights the challenges of running horror games in Pathfinder before leading out with a preface about out-of-character consent to run horror games. It then explores subgenres of horror (body horror, cosmic horror, dark fantasy, ghost story, gothic horror, psychological horror, and slasher horror), explaining in each case how to tell those sorts of stories (and whether they are particularly easy or hard to tell in Pathfinder) and what sorts of threats and plots work best in a Pathfinder game themed around that subgenre. Afterwards, there's plenty of storytelling and atmospheric tips, tricks, and techniques, both in-character and out-of-character, that can keep both players and their characters on their toes. Finally, there's some suggestions on how to improvise rules for unusual horrific situations, with examples including being buried alive or burned at the stake.
With all these new rules at the GM's fingertips, I'm actually a little frightened to play in Developer Linda Zayas-Palmer's next game (she wrote the haunt section, so soon you might be too!). And of course, the book is a perfect companion for those of you looking to check out the Strange Aeons Adventure Path. Next week, we'll be back with a very special composite preview where a bunch of us share our favorite new toys from Horror Adventures!
Mark Seifter
Designer
>>48302699
Hey. Hey, shitposter.
Color Spray.
Sleep.
Sleep Hex.
Any debuff/CC hex+Cackle.
Hold Person.
Charm Person.
Create Pit.
Direct damage.
Blasting.
Oh hey look a shitload of ways to remove things from encounters.
>>48302664
yeah it sucks. they need to stop giving prereqs for feats that don't actually have anything directly to do with that feat. Blindfight is practically the opposite of MSF. One lets you get the jump on people from shadows, the other lets you prevent people in shadows from getting the jump on you.
Really though look at the Dazzling Feints
>save or blind if you feint - pointless, they're already flat footed if you feinted them
>dont provoke when using combat maneuvers against them - pointless, they're already flatfooted and can't AoO
>bonus to confirming crits - why the fuck does paizo still think this is useful for anything
>bonus to acro checks to avoid AoOs from movement - again, pointless because flatfooted
>increased painful stare dice to d8s - honestly not that impressive, intense pain feat will get you way more bang for your buck
>bonus to next attack roll - pointless, their AC is already lower because they're flatfooted
>extra attack at -5 if you hit - finally something not useless
why are mesmerist archetypes so shit
>>48302749
To be fair, the bonus to acro also allows you free movement, which makes greater feint kinda usable.
That said, I think the better solution would be to stick with base mesmerist and just debuff things forever. Hypnotic Stare + Intimidating Glance + the sickening painful stare means any spell I'm likely to cast is going to stick.
>>48302517
>>48302586
Even these modifiers, the classes still remain distinct enough in their own right.
You may as well ask why Paizo has so many similar class archetypes with the same name and same theme.
>>48302734
You seem to be under the impression that initiators are to be balanced against tier 1 spellcasters, rather than internally balanced other initiators.
Path of War 1 is of deeply questionable internal balance. Some disciplines are plainly better than others, and other disciplines contain awful maneuvers interspersed with encounter-ending ones.
Path of War: Expanded's Elemental Flux is probably the most powerful discipline in that book, so let us compare its strongest 4th-level maneuver, Energy Hammer, to Black Seraph's Bilious Strike.
Energy Hammer deals +6d6 energy damage, but that encounters resistances whereas Bilious Strike never does. Energy Hammer can be used as part of a ranged attack, but initiators are heavily slanted towards melee anyway and are thus found there most often. Energy Hammer has four options, but one of them is clearly much better than the other's Earth's "Will saving throw or be stunned for 1d4 rounds."
Energy Hammer (Earth) is still inferior to Bilious Strike. On a successful saving throw, the former simply inflicts its damage, while the latter nauseates for a round. On a failed saving throw, the former stuns for 1d4 rounds, while the latter nauseates for a much longer duration of initiation modifier in rounds.
Even discounting Path of War 1's unreasonably high damage output, a 7th-level initiator can use Scarlet Eye's Perception as a swift action to make their next melee attack resolve as a touch attack, and then Bilious Strike as a standard action to inflict huge damage on an enemy and take them out of the battle one way or another. Even *if* we bring tier 1 casters into the comparison, this is actually better combat-wise because there is very little possible resistance to being action-denied this way, other than being immune to nausea. Miss chances might work, but then, miss chances work against offensive spells as well (because they are explicitly considered "attacks" and concealment applies against "attacks").
>>48302888
Minor note: any spell that does not include an attack roll gives no fucks about concealment, so any AoE spell and most Save or Suck/Die spells are unaffected.
>>48302052
Remember alternate channels will make a lot of your money. Ale gets you sickened, Nobility or Rule gets you stun, Repose Domain by itself with a conductive weapon puts people to sleep if you can double tap.
>>48302909
How cheese is it to get a guided weapon? It seems like a fun thing to get for a cleric.
>>48302699
>>48302734
>>48302888
One of the more odious aspects of Bilious Strike is that under a certain RAW reading, it can still nauseate constructs and undead.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/disciplines-and-maneuvers/black-seraph-maneuvers/bilious-strike
>The initiator must make a melee attack against a target creature, and if successful the attack inflicts an additional 6d6 points of profane damage and nauseates the target for the disciple's initiation modifier in rounds. The target may make a Fortitude save (DC 14 + initiation modifier) to reduce the nauseated condition to one round.
By default, the attack deals +6d6 profane damage and nauseates for the initiator's initiation modifier in rounds. Constructs and undead are not immune to nausea, so they automatically suffer this effect.
However:
>The target may make a Fortitude save (DC 14 + initiation modifier) to reduce the nauseated condition to one round.
This is an optional effect. The strike does not *require* a Fortitude save.
Constructs and undead both have this:
>Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).
Bilious Strike never requires a Fortitude save; that part is optional. Therefore, constructs and undead are still entitled to the saving throw to reduce the duration to one round. If they fail, they return to the original duration of the initiator's initiation modifier, thereby removing them from combat.
>>48302905
This is wrong.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic
>Attack: Some spell descriptions refer to attacking. All offensive combat actions, even those that don't damage opponents, are considered attacks. Attempts to channel energy count as attacks if it would harm any creatures in the area. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks. Spells that summon monsters or other allies are not attacks because the spells themselves don't harm anyone.
>>48302905
>>48302962
Let us dig further into the implications of this rule concerning "attacks."
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Special-Spell-Effects
>All offensive combat actions, even those that don’t damage opponents, are considered attacks. Attempts to channel energy count as attacks if it would harm any creatures in the area. All spells that opponents resist with saving throws, that deal damage, or that otherwise harm or hamper subjects are attacks.
Demoralization is an offensive combat action and therefore an attack.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Concealment
>Concealment Miss Chance: Concealment gives the subject of a successful attack a 20% chance that the attacker missed because of the concealment. Make the attack normally—if the attacker hits, the defender must make a miss chance d% roll to avoid being struck. Multiple concealment conditions do not stack.
If you are under a Blur spell, demoralization attempts have a 20% chance of failing against you. If you are in darkness and the demoralizer lacks darkvision, the Intimidate attempt has a 50% chance of failing, and that is assuming they target the correct square.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Cover
>Total Cover: If you don't have line of effect to your target (that is, you cannot draw any line from your square to your target's square without crossing a solid barrier), he is considered to have total cover from you. You can't make an attack against a target that has total cover.
If you are hiding behind a tower shield, demoralize attempts never work behind you. This is a literal anti-bullying shield.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules#TOC-Incorporeal-Ex-
>It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms.
If you are incorporeal, whether due to ghost syrup or Veiled Moon, you cannot be demoralized.
Remember: If someone is attempting to hurt your feelings, raise your tower shield or turn incorporeal.
>>48302975
Path of War: Expanded, Elemental Nimbus:
>Air: You gain a +2 bonus on attack rolls against opponents wearing metal armor, and your attacks deal an additional 1d6 points of electricity damage. At initiator level 10th, the bonus on attack rolls increases to +4 and the additional damage increases to 3d6.
>Fire: Your attacks deal additional fire damage equal to your initiation modifier. At initiator level 10th, this damage increases to be equal to twice your initiation modifier.
From 1st-level, demoralization attempts can have electricity or fire damage added to them, allowing you to shock opponents or deliver sick burns even without Blistering Invective.
Also as a result of this, spells like Fireball and Magic Missile are subject to miss chances (such as from a Blur spell), but they are also eligible for Sneak Attacks, which require only attacks and not hits.
>>48302962
>>48302975
>>48302981
. . . well then. That's completely fucking retarded but I guess it's rules as written.
>>48302981
. . . Does that also mean a rogue can intimidate someone from the shadows and deal sneak attack damage?
>>48303037
The issue here is that Paizo copied and pasted the rules for concealment from the d20 SRD:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#concealment
However, Paizo went on to add an all-new rule concerning the definition of "attack." They did not think this through, because it allows for silliness such as tower shields preventing demoralization attempts and a dark broom closet conferring a 50% chance to ignore a Fireball.
Paizo also always seems to assume that "attacks" always involve "hits" or "misses." Therefore, the mechanics fall apart and encounter an impossibility when an "attack" that involves no attack roll (such as a damaging channel energy attempt, which is explicitly called out as an attack) is faced with a game effect that concerns an attack "hitting" or "missing."
>>48303080
Yes, but only if darkness is the rogue's ally (concealment does not apply to the target).
>>48302586
You could have just linked the post, faggot. And you're welcome.
Turbocharged Animal Companiom seems like just enough to keep the Hunter relevant next to a Bard casting Ranger (Full BAB + freebie style chains + Instant Enemy) and a Nature Fang Druid (full casting from a great list + the important parts of the Slayer + Animal Companion or useful Domain).
And with that Archetype clarification: what stops one of those classes from taking every Archetype they have that doesn't suck? For general ease of creation and remembrance, there should probably be some sort of limit or function call on that. A simpler way to do it would be to say either:
You get one free Archetype with these classes: any ability gained with this Archetype counts as the ability it replaced for the purposes of qualifying for other Archetypes. These abilities are not replaced by any other Archetype, but can only be used to qualify for one other Archetype.
Or:
Instead of gaining (A Thing, let's go with a feat for this example), you may take any one Archetype Feature of your choice from your class.
Or:
You gain a VMC but not shit, which grants you the Archetype in exchange for (A Thing).
Or you could just bake the "good" Archetypes into the class as stated here:
>>48299311
>>48302975
How Is Demoralization Real Nigga Just Turn Incorporeal
Tower Shield goofiness isn't new to 3.0 but that Fireball ruling makes Arcane Tricksters super happy.
>>48303197
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/disciplines-and-maneuvers/veiled-moon-maneuvers
>Half-Gone
>Discipline: Veiled Moon (Counter) (teleportation); Level: 2
>Initiation Action: 1 immediate action
>Range: Personal
>Target: You
>Duration: Instant
>DESCRIPTION
>By momentarily slipping through the barrier between the Material and the Astral planes, the Veiled Moon disciple may attempt to avoid an attack by being incorporeal. The initiator makes an opposed Stealth check against the attacker's Perception check; if successful the initiator is incorporeal for that attack (resolve the attack against the initiator as normal for striking an incorporeal target). This counter may be attempted to defend against targeted and area of effect spells, making a Stealth check in place of a Reflex save.
If a mean dread attempts to demoralize a 3rd-level initiator with Veiled Moon, the latter can have the bullying pass right through them by turning incorporeal.
Tower shield strangeness is not new to Pathfinder, but I do not believe 3.X allowed tower shields to ignore demoralization attempts.
>>48302888
>>48302962
>>48302975
>>48302981
No one's gonna read all that sperging.
>>48303389
Why so bully?
Please no bully.
>>48303389
>>48303489
I read it. The rules are hilarious.
Now I have to figure out how to get Ghost Touch on my intimidate...
>Disguised as a vagrant, Othine entered these tunnels and was soon captured. Overpowered and thrown in chains—all part of her plan to infiltrate the gang—Othine was destined for the auction block, until she caught the eye of the slavers' leaders.
>It was then that she discovered they were a wicked cult of Lamashtans that secretly manipulated slave operations for a far darker purpose. Unbeknownst even to most of the other slavers, the Lamashtans covertly removed prisoners from the slave pens and used dark magic to make them hosts for monstrous children. The cultists then reintroduced the unnaturally pregnant slaves to the pens and auctioned them off to unwitting buyers throughout Golarion, sowing the seeds of Lamashtu's fiendish children.
>Yet when the cultists took Othine for their dark rituals, the drugs they administered caused the knight to lose her senses and reveal her ties to the Twilight Talons. The Lamashtans proceeded to break the daring abolitionist with magic and torture, brainwashing her into serving as a double agent.
Does EVERYTHING Paizo writes about Lamashtu turn into a mindbreak doujin?
>>48302975
>Burst, Emanation, or Spread: Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell's point of origin and measure its effect from that point.
A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst's area defines how far from the point of origin the spell's effect extends.
>A spread spell extends out like a burst but can turn corners. You select the point of origin, and the spell spreads out a given distance in all directions. Figure the area the spell effect fills by taking into account any turns the spell effect takes.
>A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see.
>>48302981
>Magic Missile are subject to miss chances
Nope.
>The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee combat, so long as it has less than total cover or total concealment.
Specific vs general.
>>48303802
>A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see.
Is there anything in the RAW that would prevent miss chances from applying here? As far as I can tell, this would simply mean that a burst spell does not require the caster to guess an unseen creature's specific square, but miss chances would still apply.
>>48303815
You are correct here. Magic Missile would be eligible for Sneak Attack and would go through regular concealment, but would still suffer the 50% miss chance from total concealment.
Hey, Forrest, Gareth, what happens to my equipment when I turn incorporeal with Veiled Moon?
Does it become incorporeal too?
>>48304000
Presumably yes because things in PoW aren't written with the intention of fucking the user over.
>>48303768
What is this from?
>Some random random thinks 10 PB is great for hardcore low magic
>He allows my 7 str 10 dex 14 con 20 int 7 wis 7 cha Conjurer into his party
>Rest of the party consist fighter, rogue, cleric
Any bets on how many sessions before I show him the error of his ways?
>>48302962
>Bilious Strike never requires a Fortitude save; that part is optional
That's one hell of a questionable reading. Strictly speaking, you can always forego making a saving throw, so by the same token, NO effect "requires" a fortitude save.
>>48300974
planar easymode
Trying to decide upon class choice for a charisma-based initiator focusing on Elemental Flux, Fool's Errand, and a third undecided discipline. I like the idea of multiclassing 4 levels and keeping full progression with Practiced Initiator.
Any ideas?
>>48304779
AKA, "garbage chute" cosmology
>>48304728
Well if you're presumably going with a level 1 start, it might be tough for you, maybe.
Or maybe not.
Though once you break his game, he /will/ just see it more as a problem with you instead of a problem with his beliefs.Storytime it if anything entertaining happens
>>48304788
Warlord and Zealot are the two least suited for elemental flux and fool's errand, if you ask me.
Fool's Errand has its best damage on classes that have a lot of bonus damage on hit, so a mystic like Aurora Soul or Knight Chandler gets a lot of mileage, and can also use Wisdom in the Flesh to get Wis to Climb.
On the other hand if you want to focus on Lock, you want either Harbinger's dark focus and boosted movement speeds, or a Brutal Slayer's silly high strength score.
Of course, there's the Night Terror Vigilante which is great but is just a 6/9 initiator, but if that's cool with you then it's probably your best bet.
>>48304846
Cheers for the advice, I think Night Terror will work well. Currently playing another 6/9 initiator, I guess full initiator can wait for another time.
>>48304734
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic#TOC-Saving-Throw
>Voluntarily Giving up a Saving Throw: A creature can voluntarily forgo a saving throw and willingly accept a spell's result. Even a character with a special resistance to magic can suppress this quality.
It could be argued that this rule applies only to magic, but then, that would allow Fortitude-save-demanding spells to affect constructs and undead. Let us work with the assumption that the target having the choice to make a saving throw still means that the target is "required" to make the save for the purpose of construct and undead immunities.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/disciplines-and-maneuvers/black-seraph-maneuvers/bilious-strike
>The initiator must make a melee attack against a target creature, and if successful the attack inflicts an additional 6d6 points of profane damage and nauseates the target for the disciple's initiation modifier in rounds. The target may make a Fortitude save (DC 14 + initiation modifier) to reduce the nauseated condition to one round.
This is one effect:
>the attack inflicts an additional 6d6 points of profane damage and nauseates the target for the disciple's initiation modifier in rounds.
This is another effect:
>The target may make a Fortitude save (DC 14 + initiation modifier) to reduce the nauseated condition to one round.
Under a certain RAW interpretation, a construct or an undead would be immune to the second effect. This is bad for them, because it means they will always be nauseated for the full duration.
This could perhaps be why *every* maneuver in Path of War: Expanded that involves a Fortitude saving throw, with the exception of Riven Hourglass 8's Wrath of Time, is worded with the precise phrase "must succeed at a Fortitude save."
>>48304788
>I like the idea of multiclassing 4 levels and keeping full progression with Practiced Initiator.
Why are you shilling 2hu?
>>48302693
>the Jason-like implacable stalker template (Vorhees, not Bulmahn)
>>48304932
No. Stop it. That's not what was intended, and no sane DM would read it like that.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10758849/r help me
>>48305090
>links the results page
Beyond help.
>>48301029
Ray of Frost
I can always have cold beer all the time.
>>48302252
>not I came, I saw, I cam again
>>48304932
Is this a thought experiment, or do you actually plan on using this interpretation of rules as a GM/Player?
>>48302338
>Still no idea if I'm building my Inquisitor right
I know I am late saying this, but if you are in the right party and you're having fun then, there is no wrong way to build your character. Too many people spend their time building their characters to be the best, instead of building it to be fun.
>>48305037
>>48305249
This is an indictment against the shoddy wording of Path of War 1.
Even without having to delve into RAW, Bilious Strike absolutely, uncontestably nauseates anyone not immune to nausea for at least one round. That plus the 6d6 profane damage makes it out-of-line for a 4th-level maneuver.
>>48304000
>>48304092
This is actually a legitimate issue with Veiled Moon, and even some Paizo methods of turning incorporeal or ethereal. There is no standard rule dictating that "if you turn incorporeal/ethereal, so does your equipment." This is why core spells must state:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/ethereal-jaunt
>You become ethereal, along with your equipment.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/etherealness
>This spell functions like ethereal jaunt, except that you and other willing creatures joined by linked hands (along with their equipment) become ethereal.
Corporeal equipment vs. incorporeal equipment is a serious matter, which is why the Amulet of Grasping Souls exists:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/amulet-of-grasping-souls
Hence, Paizo options like this:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-shadowform
Are nonfunctional, because they cause the user to turn incorporeal and drop all corporeal equipment, including the belt itself.
Likewise, several Veiled Moon maneuvers:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/disciplines-and-maneuvers/veiled-moon-maneuvers
>Until the beginning of his next turn, the initiator gains the incorporeal subtype.
Have no provision regarding equipment, which means that, by RAW, such maneuvers would cause corporeal equipment would fall off.
>>48303768
some people in paizo have a fetish for lamashtu fridge horror.
I suspect someone there pictures - or wants to picture - ALL heterosexual acts as mindbreaking impregnation rape by horrific entities resulting in the propagation of innsmouth-style monsters.
Othine's discovery is of what happens to women without pure love for a translesbian otherkin and shows that rapenis males deserve to be unknowingly cuckolded by elder gods because even that is better than a man.
>>48305373
Well then it's a good thing PoW is getting errata. Compile all the errors you can find and turn them in. Maybe you'll even get a special thanks.
>>48305374
>some people in paizo
And more people among their customer base. I've played with some of them.It was kind of fun, honestly.
>>48305411
>I've played with some of them
Paizo players, or hyper-feminist "all PIV is rape" types?
Because if it's the latter, we need SOME sort of Storytime how that worked out.
>>48305507
What exactly constitutes a paizo player? Someone who plays society?
>>48305507
Not him, but I have such a story from college.
Luckily for the guy involved, all of it happened in class...
>Guy and Girl have a great evening together
>Friend asks her why she looks so tired
>Brags a little along the lines of "we did it all night long"
>OH MY GOD HE RAPED YOU? WHAT THE FUCK? WHAT THE FUCK? OH GODS WE NEED TO CALL THE COPS WE~
>no, we just had sex?
>THAT MEANS HE RAPED YOU. HE RAPED YOU WITH HIS PENIS
>but, I wanted that. we were having sex
>THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS TO RAPE. HE FORCES A PENIS INSIDE YOU AND HE BREAKS YOUR SOUL SO YOU'LL BE PUNISHED WITH A BABY. OH MY GOD, IT'S HIM, THERE, WHY AREN'T YOU GRABBING HIM HE FUCKING RAPED HER
The guy was seeing his life flash before his eyes and the girl just couldn't do anything other than just say "but we were just having sex" probably due to the shock of something so beyond retarded being screamed in her face.
If that had been anywhere other than about 30 other people all able to overhear and, say, reported instead, his life would be fucking over (as we've seen once or twice from even cases where the actual girlfriend is calling the rape accusations retarded).
She was literally screaming that cock in pussy = rape.
>>48305546
The Paizo forums have a pretty healthy PbP scene, I was assuming a Paizo player means someone recruited from the forums.
>>48305738
Oh well yeah you'll probably find some coo coos there as well as some who think the belt that changes your sex isn't cursed at all.
>>48305771
more to the point they find it offensive and wrong for ANYONE to consider it cursed, because anyone that does not want to trans their life away and focus purely on "muh struggolz" is a more horrible person than all hitlers combined.
>>48305862
It's almost as if they cannot separate fantasy and reality
>>48305878
Like some kind of schizophrenia, where not only do they hate themselves in that world, but anything that doesn't hate itself as much as they hate themselves must be the evil and the wrongs
>>48305922
Wasn't there a tranny or trap tiefling in one of the adventure paths? I might have missed something in the reading of the fluff, but I gathered outside of a few places, such as Brevoy and Taldor, the world is largely egalitarian and gender politics don't factor much I to it.
>>48305771
The thing that bothers me the most about that argument is that they discount the fact that while the belt can be used for good, if it's put on most people, it will /give them intense gender dysphoria./
Which sounds like a pretty awful curse if I'm gonna be honest. I live with that, and wouldn't wish it on anyone.
>>48305968
Wasn't that also fairly low-key, and the character was some kind of cute librarian as the main character trait? Not that I remember much besides a screenshot of the page she was on.
>>48305968
>>48306060
Are you talking about the futa tiefling optional NPC for WotR that was in Song of Silver?
>>48306132
If song of silver was issue 100 of adventure paths then yeah I think that's where it came from.
>>48306132
Probably. If someone has the page they can drop that in and people can decide for themselves if it's that big of a deal.
>>48306151
It wasn't, it's just people looking for reasons to bitch some more.
>>48303768
>>48304536
>>48305374
I looked for the lowest-rated Paizo Pathfinder module and found this:
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8w7n?Pathfinder-Module-Broken-Chains
Then I downloaded it.
That was where the opening spiel on Othine's mindbreaking came from.
>>48306060
She wasn't cute, her character trait was self-deprecating and obnoxiously servile to the point you LOSE redemption points keeping her around Arueshalae.
>>48300974
Everyone knows that the first episode of a show or the first chapter of a book is one of the most important things. It has to hook the reader, give them some information on the setting, make them want more and keep them engaged. In tabletops it's even more important; it sets the stage for what could be a yearlong endeavor with hours of work.
How does /pfg/ plan session #1? Any advice for hooking the players? Do you have to have a combat encounter? Is it possible to start slow and still hook the players, or should one start in the middle of a scene? Do people start with a 'lore' narration, or just the scene's intro?
>>48306002
It doesn't matter if 99.7% of people consider the belt a curse, as long as .3% of people are into it than that means the belt is a cherished, non-curse item.
It's sad how quickly those people are willing to basically ignore the vast majority of the population when they make their statements.
>>48306176
>written by Tim Hitchcock
I found the SJW. He's also the writer of Reign of Winter 3: Maiden Mother Crone, also known as "This character used to be a man and literally changed into a woman through the sheer force of femininity of a giant statue. Also there are Misogyny Demons."
>>48306277
What's your session 0 like? How much do you know about the party to start with as well as the players?
That will help influence the campaign immensely.
>>48306333
I mean, it's a curse because it's a item with hidden permanent side effects that you don't know about when putting on. Even when you do know you still have a 5% chance of it taking away your gender altogether.
>>48306277
The first session of a campaign is near-guaranteed to be underwhelming, haphazard, slapdash, and sloppy compared to successive sessions.
The GM is still new to the campaign and the NPCs, the players are still new to their characters, and everyone is feeling around for each other. This means that all of the proceedings will be awkward and stilted.
Unlike the writer(s) of a television series or a book, a group cannot return to the first session and revise it as needed.
>>48306277
The best start I've had for a campaign is in the middle of an encounter; the party's been tracking a great boar for the past 3 days, and has finally caught up to it.
Something like a political intrigue campaign would work best if it started during a tournament or grand ball, or the party finding them all together in a caravan heading towards the tournament.
>>48306363
Actually, I've found with our gaming group comprised of good friends, it's usually the first session that's the best and subsequent sessions taper off.
>>48306354
>Misogyny Demons
Could you elaborate? I'm morbidly curious.
>>48306430
They're demons that hate women, and are among the weakest and most pathetic of demons.
They're often bossed around by succubi or Erinyes because the hater being servile to the hated is funny. I don't think there's a misandry demon.
>>48306430
>An andrazku forms from the soul of a chaotic mortal who hated women and used his or her power to oppress and demean them, such as a tyrant who selectively enforced laws against women, a priest who preached that women are the source of all sin, or a father who secretly beat his wives and daughters for their supposed failures. For this reason andrazkus are known to scholars as “misogyny demons.”
I thought it was just the usual /pfg/ bitching, but no, they're actually just straight up called misogyny demons.
>>48306430
Here you go. They feature heavily in this book of the AP (not so much in later books). Also note that women can become one too.
What Monsters can be easily reassembled or reanimated. Npc party of heavy metal bards/skalds. I wanted them to hack up zombies or something similar, mid performance as part of their choreographed show.
Easier to have something they can take with than having to procure fresh corpses in every city. I like the idea of dirge bard playing puppet master while the others keep performance up or cast pyrotechnics and other flashy low level spells, but dirge specifies can only reanimate once.
Current loop holes are simply knowing how much damage their minions can take and dismember rather than kill to sew back up later, mix and match parts so that it is a "new" abomination being raised, illusion the whole fight or hoping /tg can throw me at an easily controllable monster variant that self heals
Pic not related, not a lot of blue board material on my phone
>>48306358
AS far as like session -1 for actually getting the mechanics and the backstories started we've been managing that over a while using internet chats
I'm leaning toward an IC session 0, have the players actually go in for an interview with the people that are hiring them, then after that retire to the small towns bar. Use the interview as a way to give out information, gain some knowledge of how the player's RP and how their character reacts to things. I'm potentially doing the session 0s as interviews individually before having session 1 bring all the PCs together but that might seem weird.
>>48306363
Of course everyone will be finding their stride and I'll be getting back into GMing but it's still not something to skimp on as it does set the tone of the game.
>>48306381
Unfortunately while I am a fan of starting 'in media res' I'm also worried about setting the wrong tone as it is a game that focuses on a mix of lovecraftian existential horror and abusing humans base fears spiced with character drama. I think the 'media res' start would be finding something off putting at the start that'd stick with the players in the back of their mind.
>>48306469
Misandrist women become hag worshippers of that hag goddess.
Aka, misandry is more powerful than misogyny in Golarion.
>>48306469
>>48306475
>>48306489
Well, shit. This is one of the dumbest things I've seen ion a while.
>>48306534
Also note that they explicitly have shrimp dicks and most of the time when they "hunt" someone it's an attempt to fuck them.
>>48303122
Was on the phone and off to the gym, you impatient colossalturbotard cocknobbler.
Good point about installing limitations on archetypes stacks. Stacking with no clause could amount to an infinite stack of archetypes and fucking ridiculous character.
What's the limiter currently? 3 or 4?
So, you'll start with an archetype and could also concurrently only progress in 2 or 3 other archetypes.
A modular fighter that gains archetype features and fighter talents in addition or in place of feats would be fucking sweet.
A similar design rework could be instituted for a modular monk or barbarian chassis.
>>48306571
A limit of 3 would be the easiest and simplest.
>>48306571
>in place of feats
GIVE THE FIGHTER TALENTS INSTEAD OF BONUS FEATS FOR FUCKS SAKE.
The vigilante is only better than the fighter because Vigilante Talents are what the fighter's bonus feats SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE FIRST PLACE, and it STILL GETS OTHER SHIT ON TOP OF THAT. IT EVEN GETS THE ABILITY TO HAVE MORE BONUS FEATS THAN THE FUCKING FIGHTER.
>>48306665
>A modular fighter that gains archetype features and fighter talents in addition or in place of feats would be fucking sweet
^Oh look at what he wrote.
Can you not comprehend words and their meaning or something? Fuck off with your caps lock shit, you fucking shitstain.
>>48306571
>>48306665
Bonus feats btw.
>>48306665
Think you might want to take your Hulk medication.
>>48306489
>a monster that is both resistant and vulnerable to fire
So it wasn't just that fucking dragon.
For what fucking purpose?
>>48306665
Give the fighter selectable archetypes features, fighter talents and bonus feats.
Done.
>>48306430
>>48306469
>>48306475
>>48306489
They serve Koschei, the Demon Lord of Cold, Giants, and All Women Are Bitches.
>>48306720
>>48306734
>>48306740
>>48306821It's been a while since I smashed out an angry ">give the fighter talents" post. I'm just mad that paizo wasted a well designed chassis on the FUCKING VIGILANTE CONCEPT instead of unchaining the fighter, and I will never stop being angry about it. I will also NOT LET IT GO, FUCK YOU PAIZO YOU COULD HAVE SOLVED THE GODDAMN PROBLEM.
>>48306836
Big talk for someone who got fucked by Baba Yaga for at least a few millenia.
>>48306859
But now we're solving it together. Dude, do you really need to be this angry?
Also, the vigilante's not bad. It's actually alright.
>>48306859
Why do talent based classes work so well. The Alchemist, the Vigilante, the Slayer. etc?
>>48306887
>the vigilante's not bad. It's actually alright.
I think he meant the Vigilante as a class concept was dumb. What we got was okay.
>>48306571
Is it possible to buid a "tank" fighter?
I don't mean "somehow gets the opposing wizard to kill you instead of your entire party", I mean "can walk up to a tyraask and bitch slap him in melee".
I have a new character who is learning the rules, and I was thinking of giving them a character that would be basically impossible to play wrong while still teaching them the basics of movement, actions, roleplay etc.
>>48306880
I mean... who hasn't gotten fucked over by baba yaga?
>>48307000
Maybe? What level are you looking at, and is 3pp allowed?
>>48307000
It's called a Warder.
Or alternatively, a Myrmidon sword 'n' board fighter
>>48307011
Fair point.
>>48307000
>>48307024
>tyraask
Have you considered looking into Roads of Conflict? One of the professions there, the jailer, makes a really good substitute for a battler. They can even be a two-handy minder to be extra good when using awesomeswords and awesomeaxes.
>>48307016
Pazio only, preferably. Levels 4 though as long as she wants to keep the character., realistically 15 maybe?
>>48307024
>new player
>give him a warder!
I'm working less towards "actually good" and more towards "impossible to do badly with". This is her first time into roleplay that wasn't text-based online freeform stuff.
>>48307049
>realistically 15 maybe
A 15 year old level 4 fighter?
Sounds anime.
>>48306887
The anger stems from the fact that, like a lot of good homebrew and 3pp, getting anyone to use any fixes is like pulling teeth, so I have to work with what I've got. I don't know how the fuck all of you are finding your groups willing to do cool things, but I can hardly get people to look into the combat stamina system from unchained, let alone look at homebrew or any DSP product whatsoever. The vigilante's concept is fucking retarded, but it's still my favorite class because it's the best martial chassis paizo has shat out, marred only by being pigeonholed by the shitty superhero fluff that will inevitably destroy any chance at becoming the true replacement for all the other shitty T5 martials out there. Hell, even if that's technically solved by Legendary Vigilantes, I still won't even get to use it because "dude that's 3pp, it's probably broken, just play a fighter".
So in summary
>autistic manlet angry at being trapped in a 1pp-only nightmare with no escape
>>48307049
Well if you want someone that just won't die and is simple to play, give them one of the spell-less paladins
>>48307064
Or medieval.
>>48301014
>>48307075
I thought about that, but the class has a lot of roleplay restrictions on it.
>>48307049
I'd recommend Barbarian instead of Fighter if you want simple but competent. Also, are you sure that's the kind of character she wants to play? Getting thrown into the deep end of the pool might be scary, but it's also the fastest way of learning how to swim.
>>48307049
I've got a couple different options I could suggest, but I don't know exactly what you expect to be running them into or how involved you want the character to be.
>>48307049
Consider a barbarian (invulnerable rager), perhaps a human or a half-orc focused on superstition. Such a character is extremely straightforward and difficult to muck up. Their combat tactics mostly involve raging, activating Power Attack and Furious Focus, and swinging away.
I do second >>48307094's suggestion, however. The player might find it a better learning experience to be given, say, one of the tier 3 half-casters, such that they can learn both the combat rules and the spellcasting rules.
>>48307116
I honestly don't know if the half casters would be a good idea, usually they've got a ton of secondary class abilities in addition to casting that people would have to keep track of. Like as much as I love Alchemist, I could never recommend it to a new player because of the vast amount of stuff they have to keep in mind while playing one.
I'd say either a base melee class or a fullcaster, probably Arcanist since those are literally impossible to fuck up unless you spend all your spell slots on metamagic-ed Prestidigitation.
Stat me /pfg/.
>>48307094
She said "dwarf warrior, or something sturdy" so I think it's what she wanted. I'm just not very good at building characters.
>>48307114
Just throw them at me? Anything would help.
>>48307116
For a group as new as this I tend to do a bit light on the rules and stuff. It does make the players decisions matter less, but I think that it helps new people get into the game more. She is just the only one who has never built a character before.
I've done things like "and after that fight, you feel inner power inside you and discover that you were a sorcerer all along!" when people wanted to change class/mechanic stuff.
>>48307116
I really want to avoid "and now you need to adjust all of your stats because your attributes changed".
I was actually a bit set on making her a fighter. I just have no idea how to build one at all.
>>48307162
Elf 20
>>48307197
If a dwarf is what she wants, make her a stonelord
>>48307162
Looks like one of Gareth's greatsword/light-armored elf waifus, like that harbinger iconi.
>>48307197
Invulnerable rager then?
>>48307211
Stonelord is shooting the paladin in the foot.
>>48307214
Is a bastard sword though. Greatswords are taller and have a longer grip.
>>48307070
I feel for you, famalam.
What is definitely killing the game is people being shits and not branching out to at least provisionally include 3pp material. Sure, most of it is pure fucking stains on existence but there are nuggets of gold in there somewhere, and as we all know Paizo have made some stupid, stupid shit.
Also, technically, the Advanced Weapon and Armor Training feats aren't actually part of Core because they came in modules rather than the main line. Fucking hell.
>>48307234
>t. 6 footer.
>>48307162
That's a spiritualist isn't it? Ghost-friend while wearing light armour and some weapon for the inevitable mix up, a couple spells.
>>48307197
Consider a half-orc Unchained barbarian (invulnerable rager).
As a half-orc with the Sacred Tattoo alternate racial trait and the Fate's Favored faith trait, she should have a +2 luck bonus to all saving throws; the Unflinching Valor alternate racial trait gives her another +2 racial bonus to saving throws against fear, and +1 CMD against being grappled.
As a 4th-level invulnerable rager, she should have impenetrable damage reduction 2 and resist 1 fire. Superstition with favored levels should give her a +4 competence bonus on all saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities. By now, she is virtually immune to most saving throw-permitting effects.
An Unchained barbarian need not recalculate any of their statistics, and although they suffer from slightly less two-handed weapon damage, they can make up for it with Accurate Stance.
>>48307312
oh. That is nice. I will give it a look.
Thanks for the help /pfg/!
>>48306748
There's also some robots that are resistant and vulnerable to electricity
Kinda makes sense there as a sort of EMP shielding
>>48307736
>>48306748
Whatever gets past the defenses gets the vulnerability multiplier.
lightning does NOT fry those fragile electronics if it can't get through the outer shell. that robot's at least getting a faraday cage out of it first. slag through that though, and the discharge is going to melt far more.
>>48307312
Halfling Paladin/Destined Bloodrager (level 10 it's 2 P/8 B). The defenses are pretty good. I think my saves are too high for the GM to handle.
I see all sorts of people complain about a zen archer, yet no one bitches about a warpriest archer.
>>48308146
We all complain about archers.
Those of us who want to use a different ranged weapon most of all.
So /pfg/ tell me about the times where you absolutely shattered your GMs expectations, such as a "boss battle" that was supposed to be insanely difficult but was a push over for the party, or a puzzle that you some how got through ez-peeze.
For my group: (a necromancer((with Necrocraft)), antipaladin, crit-monster samurai)
>in the tower of a God of crystals and artifice, group has been going through challenges to prove our worth to meet him
>After a teleportation puzzle and havingeach of us separately fight some form of monster or outer planes beings, we reach his inner keep
>God is very showy, flowery speech about over coming hardships to see him, and that, before we can finally speak, we much fight our own inner demons
>suddenly the walls melt, there's the God, and before him are copies of the party, the battle begins
>Gm is really haming it up with some great battle music, describing the copies of the party
>the samurai and antipaladin go for their copies, as does the necromancer, well the necromancers 60ft tall necrocraft
That's when it falls apart
>Then the necrocraft proceeds to football spike the necro-copy into the negatives
>picks up the antipaladin-copy, and does the same, but this time into the unarmored samurai copy, crits, and kills them both near instantly
>The God cough awkwardly at the smear stain of his copies, then welcomes us
The entire table was in tears, even the Gm, he had been hyping this up from himself and us for days, only for our necromancers undead to spike his way to victory, the gm wasn't even mad, it was just too funny.
>>48302962
Good creatures take double profane damage right?
>>48308392
1.5 times.
>Attacks that inflict profane damage inflict an additional 50% damage to good-aligned opponents or opponents with the [Good] subtype.
As written, that actually means that the entire attack gets multiplied, not just the profane damage. I believe they've said that they intend to errata that.
>>48308443
holy dick
where do I find this?
>>48308478
Page 27 of PoW?
>>48308300
>Those of us who want to use a different ranged weapon most of all.
Have you considered apsychic armory?
>>48308499
You want me to just shoot swords at people? Yeah, okay, I can see how that'd work.
>>48308488
oh rats
it's been a while
>>48308499
I dislike Psy-Armory.
bit strong compared to the other archetypes, basically "Warsoul Armory or you're making a mistake", I think there's WAY too many flying-sword-users and "GIRUGAMESH" going around, and... despite your ridiuclous 'reach', you're still using melee weapon.
But you know what?
Even then, that's STILL just playing catch-up to "purchased a fucking bow" through the use of entire fucking builds, just to try and match bothering to buy a single piece of equipment.
>>48301014
The fuck a blinkling and why is it a meme?
>>48308714
It's a DSP bestiality race.
>>48308682
>Even then, that's STILL just playing catch-up to "purchased a fucking bow"
Even a single-classed soulknife (gifted blade, psychic armory, war soul) outguns any longbow-using full initiator by dint of Wisdom-SAD.
>Shadow Caller Spiritualist
I think I know the answer to this, but I'll ask anyways. Can I use Umbral Shroud when my shade is inhabiting my shadow? What about when it's in a bonded manifestation?
>>48308743
I think the difference anon is pointing it out here is that the big difference is as such:
Longbow:
>You purchase one
>You can add combat feats of course
>Done
Anything else:
>Specific class and/or archetype required
>May require additional feats to function
>Still need the same regular battle feats to upgrade it same as a bow
>also requires expensive equipment (crystalline focus).
SURE some builds can outgun a longbow a bit. But that's an entire build, which you could also do with the longbow, but the longbow can just instead go "I'm anything I fucking damn well please, and I use a bow", saving all that "build" for whatever else.
Also a regular warsoul isn't SAD without several feats; you either purchase completely useless crap like "focused precision damage" which has multiple limitations to it, or you're using discipline blade shapes to emulate a specific weapon which you must adapt your values for normally.
>>48308740
Blinkdogs aren't the animal type. Totes not beastiality.
>>48308740
But most of Bloodforge has implied bestiality.
