Kill Me
>>48160382
>Enchanted creature is a colorless land
..and loses all other card types and abilities
I thought they said Humility effects were a mistake.
People called this ages ago
Actually now that I think about /tg/ thought that Emrakul was already in the moon or was THE moon
>Phyrexia takes 10,000 years to defeat
>The Eldrazi take 3 months to defeat
JUST
Remember Vindicate? Remember how sick that art was? Remember how important it was for the story?
This and Fall of the Titans are embarrassing. How are the Eldrazi even threats? Apparently all you gotta do is get a couple PWs together and its easy.
>>48160445
>Urza said he'd get rid of phyrexia
>Nissa said she'd get rid of the eldrazi
...Sure don't see any eldrazi around anymore.
>>48160496
Urza also ended up joining Phyrexia.
>>48160482
It was so impactful because it was the culmination of years of story development. It would've fallen similarly flat if Invasion came on the heels of another great victory for Weatherlight & Co.
>>48160496
Urza accomplished his goals, he had no idea Karn was infected by the oil.
>>48160526
No he was forced to fight in the arena against Gerrard who promptly decapitated Urza. It was Mishra who joined the phyrexians
>>48160526
That's because he saw the light.
All will be one.
So is this it? No more Eldrazi? Or is Emmy going to bust out in a few years?
>>48160496
Emrakul is still alive, just inside a moon.
Yawgmoth is dead.
>>48160548
>No he was forced to fight in the arena against Gerrard who promptly decapitated Urza
So that whole part when he ended up talking to yawgmoth for a good 30 minutes and promptly killed the other Titans never happened then?
>>48160382
thats a fairly decent removal card desu. about time blue got one. i like it
>>48160548
no, he willfully fought gerrard after abandoning his brother (or a phantom/illusion thereof) because he was brainwashed and it literally took him losing his head to bring him back to what passed for his senses.
>>48160382
I can't. Thus is already hell.
>>48160548
>he had no idea the Phyrexian Power Stone would infect Karn
chalk up another mistake to the ledger
>>48160548
>Urza accomplished his goals, he had no idea Karn was infected by the oil.
He also missed like, a million planes that phyrexia owned and controlled.
Elspeth is from an old phyrexia world. The only Karn phyrexia world is New Phyrexia/Mirrodin
>>48160382
>three Old Walkers have to lay an intricate trap on a special plane over the course of at least decades just to have a chance at imprisoning the Eldrazi
>a team of faggot Neowalkers, with essentially zero prep time, manage to imprison one on a plane essentially driven insane by the presence of Emrakul and straight up KILL Ulamog and Kozilek
10/10 writing.
>>48160719
>The only Karn phyrexia world is New Phyrexia/Mirrodin
>Implying Kaladesh wasn't one of the worlds he visited while infect with Super Aids
>Implying Kaladesh isn't going to be overrun by Phyrexians soon
Jacetice league ho!
>>48160752
I can't wait for them to encounter Phyrexia for the first time and get wrecked.
>>48160560
>>48160573
Emrakul is sealed in a moon in a setting where people don't have Piccolo moon-busting powers and surprisingly never really did. Emrakul is as good as gone now. Full moons'll give people hella nightmares and the angels will act wonky, but that's about it.
>>48160573
>Yawgmoth is dead
And his monsters are still running around countless planes and have already replaced him with a Porcelain Meat statue.
Back to square one, I guess?
>>48160382
>turn a permanent into a land
>blue
Of course.
>>48160582
It's worse than Oblivion Ring/Detention Sphere. But I guess those are too powerful for Standard...
>>48160764
>>48160573
>Yawgmoth is dead.
>believing the lie
>>48160740
>Phyrexiafags, every time and without fail. Imagine if you guys were eldrazifags, saying "Emrakul gonna eat your plane" for years. You're literally more annoying than them
>>48160729
>two old walkers are told what to do by a third and trust him implicitly for no reason
>a bunch of desperate neowalkers decide to ignore the old dragon's warnings and prove that he's full of shit
I'm not saying it's brilliant writing, but maybe, just maybe, Ugin is not some omnibenevolent genius.
>>48160801
>be me, a Lagefage
>Almost no-one remembers who Marit Lage is anymore
>Not even phyrexiafags, who are in the same place
fml
>>48160832
I thought the only reason Ugin said not to kill them was in case they had some greater purpose that removing them would cause even more damage
>>48160832
People tend to respect the giant, ancient glowy dragon who acts like a wise old man.
>>48160719
Karn Karn'd up pretty much every world Karn went to.
Elspeth's home could have been Karn'd by Karn.
>>48160855
Yes, there was some MYSTICAL COSMIC BULLSHIT about killing them, like they were aspects of inherent forces in the universe or some such shit.
>>48160869
>"So I swoop in and tell them what I want them to do. Give a few vague lines about greater purpose, and then show off how ancient and dragony I am. Works every time!"
>>48160869
For some reason. Has Ugin actually done anything to justify people thinking he's wise?
>>48160869
which is exactly what he wants
>>48160855
that's his story, and even if it's true, he never said they can't be killed, just that it's maybe not the best idea. the gatewatch basically just said "desperate times, fuck their shit."
>>48160878
Elspeth's world was ruled by Old Phyrexians
>>48160907
he tends to know a little more than his audience whenever possible, also he's a dragon, and in sorin's case, he was way older, which is saying something. otherwise, absolutely nothing
>>48160897
"The Eldrazi probably have a greater purpose and are a necessary part of the cosmic ecosystem. Killing them could cause untold danger. Instead let's imprison them indefinitely."
>>48160897
Ugin just said they *might* be that. He had no proof.
Anyway, there were two reasons they were able to imprison Emrakul with no "prep time": Tamiyo had already been studying the moon for a long time; and they already understood how the hedron network worked from Zendikar. Yes, Ugin, Sorin, and Nahiri spent a long time *developing* the system, but once it existed, anyone could understand the principles and apply them elsewhere.
>>48160784
No, they're just too powerful to be mono U.
>>48160762
Be realistic, they'll win in the second set.
>>48160382
THE COLOR PIEEEEEE!!! IS DEADDD!!!I'll jam one into my UW decks for sure. Great way to get rid of Commanders.
>>48160406
Humility effects are a mistake when they can end up applying to the permanent that is producing them.
![bV8AaV9[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/T6tqWkd.jpg "bV8AaV9[1].jpg")
>>48160970
Source is the art book that came out Tuesday
>>48160762
>I can't wait for them to encounter Phyrexia for the first time and wreck them with zero prep time
fixed
>>48161056
Wizards has said Phyrexia is the be all, end all, final big bad of MTG. I doubt they'd lose that fast
>>48160762
Don't hold your breath. The Jacetice League will probably show up on New Phyrexia and use the moons of Mirrodin to pull some magic bullshit that destroys all the Phyrexians with no tension at all.
>>48161066
MaRO has, and that might just be MaRo's delusional wish.
![BSYNWtS[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0Ywmeyd.jpg "BSYNWtS[1].jpg")
>>48161050
that picture turned out shitty; here's a better one
>>48161056
>every block from now on will just be the jacetice league stumbling into danger and defeating it with zero effort
>>48160560
>>48160763
Return to Shadows of Innistrad will have Phyrexians bust Emmy out of moon-jail.
>>48160764
Moonlace
>>48161088
THIS fucking phyrexiafags thinking phyrexia will just show up like the Joker in a Batman movie.
>>48161080
>They arrive on New Phyrexia. Fight for 3 minutes.
>They all decide 'Nope' and drop the red and green moons haphazardly on the Artifact plane.
>Koth survives because they made Gideon kidnap him to Theros.
>>48160729
none of them were Green, NIssa's magics allow for this shit pretty easily.
the Old Walkers were simply not attuned to the right magic.
>>48161088
The two final bosses are either Phyrexia or Nicol Bolas.
Guys!
Guys!
Hey, listen, Guys!
What if...
What if they...
Shut up, Guys!
What ifNew Phyrexia attacked Ravnica and assimilated all the guilds?
>>48161165
>The final boss is both Phyrexia and Nicol Bolas.
>>48161050
>>48161092
>Emrakul was on top of them before they realize "we can just lock her in the moon" which they then immediately do with no effort
>>48160762
PHyrexian soldiers are nothing special
Elspeth (superhuman as she is though) killed them by the legions.
>>48161213
Well, Nissa's part sounded like it took a fuckton of effort. Then again, it seems Nissa's job here is permanently ramping for everyone.
>>48161258
>Elspeth (superhuman as she is though) killed them by the legions.
And they still lost because where 10,000 die there are 1,000,000,000 more tot take their place. Plus they can reuse their dead.
>>48161139
MtG : Age of Bolas will have Nick send his new minion Nahiri to break Emracool free, in half a set.
>>48161346
and? its just numbers, they aren't particularly strong or intelligent, infact, they are fanatics, and they are also fight amongst themselves.
they are not the threat they used to be.
and there isn't THAT many people on fucking MIrrodin son.
>>48161375
Nahiri wouldn't, nor would she serve Bolas, who, to her, would look like an even douchier version of Sorin.
just another manipulator that thinks nothing of his underlings, the very thing that caused her to rebel against sorin.
>>48160382
Fine, good, whatever. Can we get back to the other 2 big bads we had? Bolas and Phyrexia are way more interesting than Kaiju Cthulhus.
>>48161392
There don't need to have been "THAT" many people. Phyrexians breed their own minions as well as compleating people.
>>48161426
Phyrexia isn't interesting, and its been in so many sets that it got old.
splicing it into 3 other colors (Phyrexia was always black-red) didn't particularly change much for me.
literally the first 11 years of Magic is "PHYREXIAAAAAA" and now faggots still want more.
>>48161453
>Phyrexia was always black-red
Red was the worst color for Phyrexia, and it's good that New Phyrexia reexamined them.
>>48161213
They realized it then because that's when Tamiyo showed up
"As if following the moon, Tamiyo arrived on the scene"
Tamiyo bailed them out; they were fucked otherwise
>>48161497
>literal last minute deus ex machina
>>48161453
There's a marked difference between old phyrexia and new phyrexia. Old was yawg going on a power/revenge trip while new phyrexia is just "everything. Must. Be. Lizards."
>>48161544
thats how it was for everyone who was born under Phyrexia regardless of who's in power.
my point stands, people yearn for more of Phyrexia, when we've been given more than a decade of them.
Magic lacks true villians, just "PHYREXIA" again and again being the only interplanar vallain is weak as fuck, Bolas was their attempt to add another, but he's almost comically aloof.
the Eldrazi were just gaint Bacteria, no intent about them.
>>48161514
I'm not saying it's a flawless story or anything, but it's possible for people to complain about it without being idiots while doing so
>>48161544
>new phyrexia is just "everything. Must. Be. Lizards."
That's not even the case. The factions within New Phyrexia each have their own ideas about how Phyrexia should operate and only the voice of the Father of Machines can get them to compromise.
>>48161185
That would suck.
>>48161565
I kind of feel they struck a chord with everyone's favorite GB planeswalking Jason, but then they never developed further on that idea...
Phyrexia sans Yawgmoth just isn't the same.
>people actually wanting plots to take place over 3+ years
what the fuck is wrong with you guys? That would be fucking horrendous, It's way better that we get a semi-contained story in each block so we aren't stuck with the same old shit for half a decade, on top of that it would be terrible for new players trying to get into the game halfway through an arc
>>48161704
>terrible for new players
who the fuck cares
>>48161581
I don't see how he's wrong.
Tamiyo shows up, some magic mumbo jumbo is tossed around, and Emmy gets thrown into the moon in two short paragraphs.
It reads like I got my dumbest friend to give me a summary of a movie he watched a week ago.
>>48161760
You ARE reading the summary of the plot. That's what the artbook is. Now shut up and read the weekly stories so you can know how bad it is.
>>48161700
Yawgmoth's desire to invade Dominaria, the main setting of Magic at the time, and his conflicts with Urza is what made Phyrexia interesting. Without that, they're just dollar store Borg.
>>48161704
>plots to take place over 3+ years
Gideon has been slowly forming the gatewatch since 2010. He made Jace into a lawmage, forced Chandra into the purifying fire, turned Nissa away from species discrimination, and he's about to sink his claws into Liliana and make her able to summon spirits and shit. He is about to create a team of W/x fighters under his command for the express purpose of seeking to maintain order across the multiverse. The past 6 and next 5 years will be discussing how the greatest white planeswalker of all time won everything.
>>48161752
The people making money. That's who.
>>48161139
>Moonlace
What about it?
>>48161863
>the greatest white planeswalker of all time
Wait, Serra's back?
Yeah, I'd love semi-contained and contained world but it seems that current direction is connecting everything to the Gatewatch. I don't even mind seeing them once in awhile or in the background, like SOI story wise had a nice execution with Jace there, but having them in spotlight 24/7 gets really tiring.
>>48161912
Serra was an IDIOT.
she lost a loved one, made a safe space, and then when the safe space got invaded, killed herself.
>>48160904
I just realised Ugin's pattern on those flaps on his neck look just like the Eldrazi card frame from BFZ and the patterns on hedrons. Neat.
>>48161955
they are his design idiot.
of course they look the same he designed the HEdrons.
>>48161842
Precisely. They built up Yawgmoth as just the be-all, end-all villain. An evil man who ascended to higher and higher lofts of greatness, eventually becoming this Godlike figure.
Phyrexia itself and it's bio-machine compleation was just a backdrop to the evil of Yawgmoth, it was never the central element for why they served as an effective villain.
I think another factor that really helped Old Phyrexia was the cards themselves. I mean look at YawgWill and Bargain, you fucking know shit is real when the cards named after the BBEG are this fucking insane.
Then in Scars... I guess New Phyrexians have like AIDs... AIDS is cool I guess.
>>48161950
sounds like tumblr before its time
>>48160382
That's just an awful name. Why didn't they call it "Lunar Sealing"? That way it sounds cooler and could be reprinted sometime. Now it's stuck to this story and has an awkward name.
>>48161704
>people actually wanting plots to take place over 3+ years
The Eldrazi were introduced in original Zendikar ,so we had the three titans introduced in Rise of the Eldrazi they did nothing for 6 years and then are deal with in less than 1 year. With a pacing like that you couldn't build them as a serious threat.
>>48160427
Those were the most autistic , how can someone really think that emrakul was the moon.
but yeah, this is not a surprise for anyone
>>48161985
I mean, I didn't word it right. I never actually noticed he had any pattern on the flaps because I never saw a high res picture of him. Now, let's drop the insult use, shall we, Mr Fuckface?
>>48161950
Gideon is the man who started going by a different name because some stranger called him the wrong name and he never corrected them. He's kind of an idiot himself.
>>48162095
he did that because Kytheon essentially died with his friends
>>48162033
It's because Wizards kept dropping "subtle" hints that something was up with the moon, and people were hoping that there had to be more going on with the moon than it just being a giant Helvault. Turns out they gave Wizards too much credit.
Is Sorin kill? Nahiri seems to be going full unlimited blade works on his ass.
>>48162147
No, she kept him alive on purpose for two reasons:
>Watch Emrakul destroy his plane, and if she doesn't:
>Eternal suffering from your insides slowly being eaten with just the right amount of speed to allow you to regenerate without gaining back enough strength.
>>48162147
she returned the favor and imprisoned him in stone.
>>48160382
Emrakul ;_;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIq8jLj5TzU
>>48162168
Jokes on her. Planeswalkers can planeswalk out of things like that.
>>48162181
they literally can't and she knows it.
you cannot planeswalk if you cannot concentrate and she made sure he couldn't.
>>48162181
Have you read the story? He can't as of now.
>>48162181
The rock is not just normal rock, it's a magic rock with little teeth inside that slowly chew on Sorin. They inflict constant pain on Sorin and eat at him just enough to keep him alive.
>>48162193
But didn't Koth seal Elspeth in stone in order to force her to planeswalk?
>>48162181
That depends. Nahiri may have implemented some hedron tech to keep him there. She does have some skill at fucking over other planeswalkers, as Ob Nixilis can attest to.
>>48162210
he did so comfortably so she could planeswalk out.
Sorin has stones grinding into his organs for all time.
>>48162175
kek
>>48162205
Sounds pretty BDSM
>>48162271
Kor are into freaky things.
>>48160560
Of course Emrakul will escape. And people will complain about it.
Sorin will escape and people will complain about it.
Innistrad will be fine and people will complain about it.
Had Emrakul done more people would have complained about that.
If they'd left the Eldrazi imprisoned people would complain about it.
If they hadn't ripped off Cthulhu people would complain it.
>>48162299
fuck off maro
>>48162333
If people complain, people will complain about it.
It's circles all the way down.
>>48160382
Wasn't this card specifically called a mistake?
Also, since when does blue do direct removal, a land-related one at that?
>>48162175
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhZ2X9znPxM
>>48162466
It can't hit artifacts or enchantments.
Green shouldn't be hitting creatures, that's what the problem with Song was.
>>48161752
This desu. Most new players don't immediately become Vorthos'. Even the ones that do are still a minority compared to the ones that like the game because its fun.
Hell, when I started playing three years ago I didn't give a rats ass about the lore and it wasn't the reason I started playing. Eventually I got interested, pirated the books (most are shittily written with some neat lore), and became resident Vorthos #10099
>>48162299
There are even people complaining about people complaining about it.
>>48162480
So, why is blue allowed to hit creatures, lands and even planeswalkers?
>>48162466
blue gets various forms of "turn that thing into another thing" since polymorph. hitting lands and walkers is a bit new, but maybe the creative team was hard up for it. I feel like this was going to be UW but then development.
>>48162508
Because blue needs some kind of fun toy after being fucked for so long and having all their spells stolen by green.
>>48162529
Except that blue is still the most versatile color as far as design space goes.
>>48162508
Because blue, like all colors in magic, can dip a little into the toolbox of an allied color. Only it will be worse and higher up in rarity. So blue can have a worse kinda o-ring at rare.
>>48162508
blue has had "enchanted land is an island" for ages. this can be better or worse than that on a land, nothing new. the hitting walkers and doing all three in one card are the only real new notes.
>>48160574
He only killed the black one and the pentacolor one, two more died on phyrexia.
Freyalise and Windgrace survived, Guff sacrificed himself
>>48160382
"ON THE MOOOOOOOOOOOOON BEYOOOOOOOOOTCH!"If I was supposed to be sorry for that, they would have not made this card
>>48160764
Couldn't you just use this on your enemies permanents though?
>>48162508
Because of Turn to Frog, and Spreading Seas.
Planeswalkers as a permanent are in a bit of an "anything goes" category. Green can hit them because it gets blanket Noncreature Permanent removal. Red can shoot them directly. Black has cards specifically for Planeswalker removal. Blue has this now, and it's not even a permanent solution.
White seems to be the color that actually has the least options for directly dealing with a planeswalker. They have to attack into it.
>>48161453
Old phyrexia was so White/Black it hurt
>>48162147
>Is Sorin kill?
Is Elspeth kill?
Is Garruk kill?
Of course not. They're just on ice until they need to do a "Return" set.
>>48162559
>the hitting walkers
And creatures.
>>48162594
I knew someone would dig up transmutation spells.
The problem is they are pretty different. This is more similar to Path to Exile.
>>48162594
or o-ring. anything that hits permanents or nonland permanents, which white has less of in standard, but no shortage of overall.
>>48162600
>old phyrexia was so white/black it hurt
What.
There was no white in Phyrexia at all. It was Black/red all the live long day.
>>48162645
also suppression bonds and faith's fetters. I don't know how often white's gonna get enchant permanent arrests, but i like them for PW answers.
>>48162642
>The problem is they are pretty different.
It's just Spreading Seas with more versatility. You can't undo a Path to Exile.
>>48161050
damn i forgot my 3d glasses
>Both Nahiri and Sorin are still alive by the end of this
HedronBowl II when?
>>48162618
Elspeth is actually kill but whatever, she will be saved by Gideon in Return to Theros and wizards will kill her character forever by giving her peace.
>>48162657
don't forget Target Black/Red Player Loses At Instant Speed
>>48162654
White is Order, Xenophobia, rigid inflexible Dogma, absolute adherence to the word of their God. Yawgmoth isn't White in the slightest, but Phyrexia itself is.
>>48162691
>Elspeth is actually kill
they literally and quite specifically said she was not dead
Koth's also not dead.
>>48162691
Still rooting for merge to return with theros. literally putting together the broken pieces of herself gives elspeth not peace, but purpose. salvage that trainwreck of a character dammit.
>>48161092
>Or so they hoped
JUST FUCKING END AT LEAST ONE FUCKING STORYLINE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>48162678
That's like saying that if black got a removal that target either a creature or an enchantment, it would be "just" a Murder with more versatility.
>>48162723
it's okay versatility is blue's color pie
:^)
>>48162571
Guff, Freyalise and Windgrace were the only ones of them that were fucking cool and levelheaded
they didn't deserve to be apart of that fucking travesty, and they didn't deserve to die for the mending which they didn't even create.
Urza did, 6 thousand years prior, with the Sylex.
>>48162701
except they were the Black version of religion, not white.
>>48162723
Also, enchantment based removal is White.
So this card should've been white, maybe W/G.
>>48162594
White is the color of straight up annhilating permanents, expecially if paired with black
>>48162723
No, it's like saying if Black got a removal that targets either a creature or a Planeswalker, it would be "just" a Murder with more versatility.
And, my god, they fucking already did.
Planeswalker interactions aren't as rigidly defined as "Red and Blue don't get Enchantment removal" or "Blue and Black don't get Artifact removal".
>>48162741
>Guff, Freyalise and Windgrace were the only ones of them that were fucking cool and levelheaded
how can you forget bo
>>48162586
.... That's the idea. That's why it's weird that BLUE gets it.
>>48162333
Internet discussions of long-running stuff are always in a state of perpetual disappointment with the current direction of their chosen subject, regardless of whether that direction is good or bad. This in no way means the direction of MTG is good. It's just that fans are always complaining in pretty much the same way.
Eventually your interest will fade entirely and you'll go away, and people who started with the Jacetice League or grew to accept it will complain that there isn't enough Jace anymore and this new guy Flange Ongoron isn't as good.
>>48162713
I'm not really convinced with merge. It's a cool mechanic but it's hard to actually fit it in a normal set without making too few or too many merge card. I think they should actually be more generic with at least one of the two part unless the plot ask for it. For example Hanweir and Brisela are fine, but Chittering Host could very well have been Midnight Scavengers + a rat creature.
>>48162794
that does't work due to the back art.
>>48162754
There's not a Black version of religion. Black is the color of defying the idea that someone gets to tell you what to do.
Black cults are only about trying to take power from whoever they can.
Phyrexia was a proper religion. They believed Yawgmoth was their god and they needed nothing more or less. They weren't in it to squeeze power out of him.
>>48160382
Jesus Christ, they actually did it. They actually ended this in the dumbest way possible.
God, I fucking hate Creative. I hate Wizards. I hate the Jacetice League. Fuck it all.
>>48162782
Oh man I can't wait to see Flange Orangegoron in the new Magic the Gatheringmovie.
>>48160482
The Eldrazi are not a threat to anyone with the Eldrazi binding rune and sufficient mana. That's why they got sealed in the first place. It never took oldwalker powers, and the hedron network was exclusively to have an indefinitely-lasting prison.
Ugin could have killed them effortlessly back in the day. He simply feared, and still fears, unforeseeable consequences.
>>48162820
they didn't "believe" anything, it was genetically imprinted on them, it wasn't a belief, it was their entire existence.
they can't "not" think of him a god, it isn't a white religion, its a black one.
>>48162865
>He simply feared, and still fears, unforeseeable consequences.
I doubt they'll do it but I kinda hope that, in a couple of years from now, they come back to this and see these consequences. They still killed 2 two of them so there should at least be some, right?
>>48162820
white Mana actively HURTS Phyrexians.
it nearly killed Yawgmoth himself.
you simply don't know what you are talking about.
it was always a false-religion, no one in Phyrexia can think otherwise due to the Oil Imprinting.
>>48160382
>they did it again
>>48162895
That is still White.
It's exactly what the White in New Phyrexia is.
>>48162915
This is coming from the same creative team that decided Red was the appropriate color for mind-controlled, emotionless and soulless drones.
I am already contending that they were wrong, bringing up something else they were wrong about doesn't really make a difference.
>>48162950
>>48162922
they cannot use or channel White Mana, it actively kills them.
old phyrexians at least.
>>48163013
That's because, at the time, White was the color of "Good" and Black was the color of "Evil". They made Red Phyrexians because Red was the next most "Evil" color. It's not reflective of the actual intricacies of the Color Pie, it was an oversimplification.
>>48162922
both black and white have religious affiliations
black clerics serve higher powers in order to benefit themselves while white ones do it for a greater good
there are 47 separate mono-black cleric cards
>>48163040
>both black and white have religious affiliations
Which means it is both Black AND White. The behavior displayed in the Phyrexian "religion" is still White even if you contend that it is Black as well.
>>48163093
it can be just black, idiot.
>>48163093
>Which means it is both Black AND White.
No, it means it can be both black OR white.
>>48160382
>Literally stealing from green's color pie.
It's only bad when other colors do it, right MaRo?
>>48162820
Except most of them were corrupted minions/zombies incapable of a individual thinking. They were not psychotic devots, they were pawns, killing machines, cannon fodder. Davvol even fancied eating some of his minions. And yes, the thinking ones were in it for power, hence the backstabbing.
>>48163116
>>48163128
Cards featuring those affiliations can be just Black, but the behavior itself is still Black and White. Their ideologies are White, their actions are White, their beliefs are White. Even if the cards don't show it.
>>48163093
>There's not a Black version of religion.
>>48163093
>it is Black as well
not sure if same anon, but if so
>>48163150
>MaRo
Didn't design it and didn't approve it.
>>48162741
>>48162571
>>48160574
That's because like half of the Titans were not even the most powerful planeswalkers, but just some youngins Urza and other Titans found out of desperation, in order to replace those who left/died, and the fact that most Planeswalkers just said "yeah nah fuck off Urza" and left.
>>48163150
It never was in Green's color pie.
Maro had always compared it to the "Can red destroy enchantments if it turns it into an artifact first?" question.
>>48163169
Religious leaders are Black.
Religious adherents are White.
The reason you get occultists as something a Black Planeswalker can summon is because that's the sort of thing a Black Planeswaker has for servants. Black takes advantage of White ideologies.
>>48163128
OR black AND white.
>>48162768
So many literally whos in that retarded story.
Here's hoping Liliana doubles crosses the Gatewatch soon and kills at least one of them. I fucking hate the Gatewatch so much.
>>48163223
But Snakeform has been around for quite a while now. It's equally justified in both Blue and Green
>>48163269
I feel like, out of all of them, the one most likely to die is Gideon.
>>48163263
Yeah, but he was an inter-planar smuggler, which is a really cool concept that they will NEVER revisit.
>>48163295
That seems like something that Dack would probably be involved in.
>>48163292
Of course. He's superman. They're gonna kill him so they can res him later.
>>48163249
Yes, we already know Orzhov is like a religious mafia.
>>48163290
You're steal dealing with a creature in snakeform, as weak as it is. Blue is the one that can turn them into non-creatures. In Green you still need to make your elephant step on them first.
>>48160631
>Even in death I still fuck up.
> -Urza
>>48163245
>The Cabal and the Order really aren't that different. After all, we are both empowered by faith.
>>48162181
imagine once he gets used to the pain, how angry he is going to be
>>48163295
This. He was also a voice of reason and a good guy who saved a lot of people sacrificing himself.
>>48163390
Bo had a hard life...
>>48163382
I don't know how much more pissed he can get honestly.
This is starting to loop into infinite pissed here.
>>48163382
its irrelevent, Sorin can't beat Nahiri because he can't change, he can't grow stronger or smarter than he has become.
Nahiri did, she changed and grew, for better or worse, and won because of it.
Sorin is a man who has lived too long, because he has reached his apex, and can't change what he has become, he is like cement, Nahiri grew beyond him.
>>48162521
white can hit planeswalkers and legends for tutor targets.the colors are expanding.
>>48163245
>Religious adherents are White.
no, they're not
>>48163432
Sorin won the fight, he just didn't finish her off. If Sorin had used his sword at the end instead of trying to drain her he'd have won that's the only difference between him winning and losing.
>>48163295
Wasnt tezzerets operation on ravnica a smuggling operation?
>>48163378
Believing there is a higher power you must submit your will to is not Black.
Believing that you can scrape and grovel for scraps of power from an unorthodox source is reasonably Black.
The bulk of Phyrexians wholeheartedly believe in Yawgmoth as a deity, and his word as divine edict. That is White behavior.
>>48163463
that card must have been bonkers back in it's day
>>48163485
no they don't, they don't believe anything, they were genetically designed to think a certain way.
it isn't true belief.
>>48163498
The current White Phyrexians are in exactly the same boat. This is still White.
>>48163485
>Believing there is a higher power you must submit your will to if it's in your best interest is Black.
FTFY
my argument has been that religion is equally black as it is white in the mtgverse
>>48163536
Literally anything gets to be Black if "it's in your best interests", that's not much of an argument.
>>48160382
*sighs forever*
At they didn't kill her.
>>48163485
>Believing there is a higher power you must submit your will to is not Black.
literally is, m8
religion = white is a meme
>>48163566
It's hard to take you seriously when "X is a meme" is your supporting argument.
>>48160482
Honestly the stupid art and unrelated to the card's effect flavor text made me dislike vindicate.
>>48163552
that's Black: selfish ambition that puts your own, immediate benefit above all else
the only reason I've been posting is to refute
>There's not a Black version of religion.
>>48162095
It's called a nickname you social outcast.
>>48163583
why should I seriously reply to someone with such a one-dimensional view of the colors of magic
>>48163485
Black has cults who use religion to gain power for conquest.
White has orders who use religion to gain faith, and only use its power if threatened. Or against other faiths who they dont agree with their morals.
>>48163566
>religion = white is a meme
Is that why it's the first thing listed on the official article explaining the color philosophy of white?
>>48163597
It's less a nickname and more a rename. Gideon's the guy who decided, "No, my old life is dead. I am a new person now, a better person."
>>48163609
Maybe you should use something more modern.
>>48163485
>>48163485
Fucking Innistrad had people who devoted themselves to Griselbrand and when he got merked they started looking for something new to worship
>>48163632
That religiously black flavortext.
>>48163655
>>48163655
>>48163663
"I'm not afraid out here, for I know that a higher power protects me."
Quick, name what color this flavor text is from.
>>48163632
>Maybe you should use something more modern.
I could, but the cults of tourach, gix and later yawgmoth himself were pretty great.
New phyrexia fucked up by making everything just compleation.
>>48163589
That's not actually being religious. That's exploiting religion for your best interests.
The idea of religion is that there are forces beyond your control that are greater than you and must be obeyed or heeded. Submitting because it helps you out isn't the same as devoting yourself to the service of these higher powers out of reverence or belief.
>>48163698
Cool, now look at everything under the post you just responded to.
Can't wait for the pony alters on this card.
>>48163718
>That's exploiting religion for your best interests.
Same.
>>48160719
>The only Karn phyrexia world is New Phyrexia/Mirrodin
Literally every plane that Karn 'walked to after he got his spark has been oil infected. He realized that and the full implications of it in the Time Spiral novels.
Mirrodin is just the only one we've seen so far, and probably converted more easily and thoroughly than most because it was already made of metal.
>>48163432
Willingly? No. Sorin is far too arrogant and far too conceited.
However, being stuck in a state of such agonizing pain that you can't even concentrate on anything else can and will do some very fucked up things to a sentient mind.
I personally await the appearance of Mardu Sorin in a future plotline.
>>48163698
>worship angels
>white
>worship demons
>black
Bam, black has a religious following.
You can also worship money and get that cream.
>>48163432
>he is like cement
He truly is!
>>48163698
>I decide what religion is
It could also be just a group of assholes who believe being an asshole is the best thing to be and so they praise and worship super-assholes
>>48163742
How is >>48163632 >>48163655 >>48163639 >>48163684
Exploiting religion for power? Go on and explain it.
'The demons are powerful and deserve our worship' is the theme there.
>>48163794
Because they are worshipping the demons to get something.
For example:
>Thraben's pleas fall on deaf ears. Ours do not.
Avacyn was gone. There was demonstrably less to gain from worshipping an absentee. They're calling on demons because they actually get something out of it.
>>48163684
In that case, isn't the "higher power" herself?
>>48162299
this guy gets it
>>48163841
Your being pretty obtuse here. That's like saying "People worshipped the christian god because he promises salvation." or something like that.
They see the natural, undying power and influence of the demons and believe it is to be worshipped. Are Heliods followers not white because they believe paying tribute to him brightens their days?
>>48163842
The higher power is her demon master, who she channels to safety when she gets in trouble.
>>48162521
Blue has had shit like "target land is an island" since alpha, this is just that but it turns lands into anus lands instead.
>>48163893
White is the sort to blindly believe. To say "God works in mysterious ways", or "God has a plan for us all".
Black is the sort to engage in ritual sacrifice because when they do, a demon shows up and kills people for them.
White believes in natural divinity.
Black "believes" in results.
>>48163841
the demons were worshiped while avacyn was present as well. People chose griselbrand over avacyn when they were well aware that she answers prayers and protects.Some religions can just be about worshiping evil like>>48163771
>>48160849
>no one remembers Marit Lage
Negro, Marit Lage was one of the two big non-eldrazi theories of the board for EMN
>>48163841
>If you worship something for gain it is black and not real religion or faith
How is worshipping an angel or a god that promises protection during life and a peaceful afterlife if you devote yourself to them any different from worshipping a demon because he's gonna shit in the soup bowl of that person who you feel did you wrong?
Both promise something in return. Both have their commandments and people choose to follow those commandments because they sit comfortably with wherever their morality lies.
>>48163939
black also believes in natural divinity
just less benevolent divinity
>>48163987
while on the subject of black cults...
>>48163998
Because you are asked to believe in a peaceful afterlife. You are demonstrably shown a demon murdering the shit out of people.
>>48162741
>Guff
>level headed
Now I know you're not retarded enough to think this, mate.
>>48164037
avacyn visibly protected humans and locked innistrad's monsters in the helavault
>>48164037
They were also demonstrably shown an angel murdering the shit out of people.
And shouldn't you be taking issue with all the green religion? According to your definitions that should all be white too.
>Eldritch Moon
>Eldritch
>Moon
>As in Emrakul gets trapped in the Moon
BRAVO MARO
>>48164057
Yup, that's what >>48164037 is forgetting. The church of Avacyn and their angels performed very visible functions of smiting evil and ensuring you didn't come back up as a ghost.. In what way is it any different to worship Avacyn vs Ohrmendahl up here? >>48163639
>>48164089
Not much past the fact that demons don't seem all that interested in geists.
They are more than willing to drag you back from the grave if they need something from you though.
>>48160382
What's wrong with this? We all knew this would happen from the clues in SOI. No point throwing tantrums over it.
>>48164089
It's a disconnected sort of thing.
The Angels protect you from threats you may never interact with.
The Demons were purposefully summoned to do something or bequeath some power that directly benefits you.
There's a functional difference between passive benefits keeping you from getting into a bad situation and aggressive benefits empowering you to get ahead.
>>48164163
none of that says black can't have religion
>>48164163
>Demons were purposefully summoned
Demons aren't "summoned" on Innistrad or anywhere in MTG, they just sort of "are"
And the people of Innistrad see plenty of angels and very visibly see the effects of the angel's power.
Offering a sacrifice to a demon is no different from offering a sacrifice to any of the pantheon on Theros. Indeed if Avacyn's doctrine said she needed a sacrifice of anything from lamb to your son's foreskin, well that's all basica mono-white religion.
There's no difference between paying to a god of protection or a god of war except flavor, just like there's no difference between worshipping Avacyn or Griselbrand except flavor.
Also >>48164206
>>48164206
Alright, fine. It was a matter of definitions.
I chose to make a distinction between religion and occultism that you are not making, which is fine.
