What's /tg/ opinion about pic related?
Also, how to deal with womyn and minorities that join the game you're in?
>Other people like the thing I like! This will not stand!
Stop being a retard.
>>48079362
Nice argument. I bet you didn't even look the pic. Also, sorry for triggering you.
My group is racist and sexist as fuck. That deters most women and monorities. Then again, we are a group of "that guys", even the girls are that guy in our group.
>>48079325
What are some examples you can give of this happening?
>>48079325
this picture makes me really angry
At part 5, the pic says that the dudebros thinks he can play the game better than the other guys and will try to play the game to get attention of the girl playing the game.
Anyway, what makes me rage is that then he will complain when someone is playing the game seriously.
So at the same time the dudebros (on his mind, and so its not someone else opinion) think he is better than others and also will complain if someone takes the game too seriously.
Since I hate doublethink (dont know if this counts) I rage at this part
>pic
Masturbatorial fantasies about being oppressed. I've never had that happen. I don't know anyone who has had that happen.
In a capitalist sense, it's rational for companies to extend advertising and get new customers for their product. Some see the 'normification' of the hobby, but I see a business successfully selling their brand to previously uninterested customers. The MTG example is a strong one, a lot of grognards are pretty unhappy about it, but their sales figures have never been better.
In turn this is likely to make a better product, one which is capable of pleasing both the old and the new guard.
If you don't think this is likely, you might be some sort of fucking communist.
As to women and minorities? They're just fucking regular players the lot of them. I notice a slight difference where women are less likely to be as obsessive with the rules or as concerned with stat-blocks and more likely to be invested in roleplay. But then the most munchkin player I have ever played with was a Canadian chick.
Minorities? I play with a Somalian dude called Aden, a Pacific Islander chick, a Jew, a crippled white guy, a couple of weightlifting white men, an autist and some white chicks in a rotating group. They're all invested in the various games, engage with the rules and have fun together without causing drama. I also play in an RL ERP which has resulted in more than one orgy, and even this the drama has been low-grade.
Being concerned about other people entering the hobby or of refusing certain demographics because of preconceived notions is childish and shows a deep insecurity.
>>48079325
In a hobby like TTRPGs which rely on small tight nit groups this is not generally a problem. As well the buy in for card game competitive scenes keep people who aren't serious out of it.
If a group comes along, begins and then stops playing it doesn't take away the group, the people who do not play have left the group. Because of card shops being what they are a store owner will not let people uninterested in the hobby to simply stand around.
Really the pay wall for TTRPGs keeps it pretty safe.
>>48079431
What this guy said. It's like living in the bad part of town where you cosmetically fuck your own shit up so that other people won't fuck it up worse, or steal it.
>>48079325
Well, it hasn't been the case in my experience. The female gamers I know are all pretty involved in the games they play, and I don't know any dudebros. But that's just one data point, I'm not saying my experience is representative. But then again, neither is OP's. We need more examples. Anyone else going to chime in?
>>48079441
>/tg/ - Traditional Games
Not sure if ironically stupid or just shilling.
>>48079468
I know that feel too. It's like when you are in a workgroup and some lazy people start gossiping and complaining about the ones that are really taking the job seriously.
>>48079441
Magic the Gathering?
>>48079517
How is Magic worse now than it was before?
I feel like dudebros could be pretty fun to play with in the right context. Not exactly familiar with Exalted, but what I do know makes me think it could work.
>>48079480
>In a capitalist sense, it's rational for companies to extend advertising and get new customers for their product.
And in a capitalist sense, it's also rational for companies to slash their product to 60% of the quality if they can do so at 55% of the cost*. Doesn't mean I have to like it!
*insert caveats for autistic economists about how "cost" is the wrong word and I should be using precise autistic terminology to describe the wal-martification of product
>>48079480
No one is talking about the product per se, or the market.
Go shill somewhere else and quit shitposting here.
>>48079493
But don't you think this fenomena lowers the quality of the hobby itself? I mean, making it more mainstream and easier for the non original members doesn't makes it shittier?
>>48079325
Women actually can have interests in niche subject matter. Strange, I know.
>>48079599
>But don't you think this fenomena lowers the quality of the hobby itself? I mean, making it more mainstream and easier for the non original members doesn't makes it shittier?
Can you explain why those things actually make it worse?
>>48079629
Because it loses the original essence of the hobby and turns it into some casual shit? God, get some reading comprehension, son.
>>48079599
If you don't like it, and you're in the minority, maybe you should go make a clan about it.
>>48079325
>how to deal with womyn and minorities that join the game you're in?
Best way to deal with those is to stop posting bait threads on a slow board like /tg/.
>>48079552
Well, okay, obvious Wizards / Hasbro is going out of their way to target normies, so it isn't entirely the normies' faults for taking the bait, but the hobby has definitely been shit up by non-nerd types.
>>48079649
>original essence
>casual shit
>reading comprehension
Would you try this again with less meaningless buzzwords and memes?
>>48079656
Again, how?
How has becoming popular shit up the hobby?
>>48079594
>>48079599
anticapitalist scum go move to cuba you cucks
>>48079649
How does it do that?
Like, you have to actually explain how it happens.
>>48079654
>hey, let's ignore an actual problem just to play the cool politically correct guys
As the picture states, I spent too much time and money with something I love just to ignore this and let it be ruined.
>>48079685
By disenfranchising the players who genuinely enjoyed it and simplifying the game to pander to standard and draftscum who think of the game as nothing more than a beer and pretzels game.
>>48079516
>It's like when you are in a workgroup and some lazy people start gossiping and complaining about the ones that are really taking the job seriously.
Nope its not, the lazy guys arent joining your group thinking they are better than the rest of the group, so good that the teacher or boss will see then with good eyes, thats the key point.
>>48079516
Give an example of a game literally collapsing due to a casual audience, and then prove that it was girls and Alphas chasing girls that ruined it.
>>48079517
Magic hasn't collapsed, it's doing better than ever. And I'm pretty sure it's 'core' audience just complain loudly then get back to playing, yet to see any evidence of them leaving in droves.
>>48079685
I bet he's going to be like
>NWO
in regards to mtg without having understanding of what it means or represents
>>48079325
Nice MS Paint image, faggot.
Would be a shame if something happened to it.
>>48079656
It really gets my gobstoppers when people describe themselves as nerds, as though it's some badge of honor. Nobody's stopping you from playing the old version of the game; just keep the old rulesets and restrict cards published after a certain date from use. Call it Vintage Magic.
>>48079726
Found the normalfag
>>48079719
And how have they done that? Are you still mad about Mana Burn not being a thing?
>>48079716
>actual problem
>>48079719
Simplification isn't inherently a bad thing. You seem to be talking about magic, so explain how the removal of complexity has made the game worse, and how they've disenfranchised the players who enjoyed the game?
>>48079702
It's hardly "anticapitalist" to point out that capitalism does not generally encourage companies to optimize for product quality beyond the minimum necessary to keep people buying things. Communists have nothing; capitalists have computers, which is better; but capitalists still have computers that break down, lose data, drop connection, corrupt files, freeze programs, and generally throw shitfits at unpredictable moments.
(There _were_ rare computers, mostly academic constructs and short-run experimentals, that never froze, never crashed, and never lost data short of smashing the drive with a fucking hammer. They were outcompeted on non-quality attributes.)
>>48079779
Are you retarded? Do you just not know about any of the contemporary design philosophies Wizards utilizes?
Standard is a watered down format where "design complexity" has thoroughly fucked rarity, and draft chaff is reprinted ad nauseam because idiots think "good draft environments" justify shitting up half of a set and dooming most cards to never being remotely constructed playable.
>>48079800
I mean, I know next to no one who plays anything but EDH now. We all dropped out of the standard rat race ages ago because of how shit the direction the game is going now. Depowering spells, a heavy focus on planeswalkers, the circlejerk around the drafting environment.
>>48079819
I'd rather everyone have a decent computer than a handful of people have great computers.
>>48079833
So just organize to play the game without the parts you don't like and create unofficial tournaments with your alternative rulesets.
Or are you mad because you won't be able to claim you're playing the 'real' game?
>>48079703
>Like, you have to actually explain how it happens.
Guy go to a show of merzbow with his girlfrield.
one example of merzbow music ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5FWAj6oSRQ) be carefull with the loud noises.
His girlfriend say "i hate this, and holy fuck it doenst even have vocals"
At other time they go to shows, instead of going to shows like merzbow, he go to show where artists sing, like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGNKgah948s ) loud noises too. He do that to try to please at least a little more his girlfriend.
He prefers way more the artists that doesn't sing while they are playing and so have less fun when he goes to those shows
>>48079842
Sure, and I can respect that position. On the other hand, wouldn't you rather a handful of people had /tg/ over everyone having a youtube comment section?
>>48079833
So your personal experiences define the entirety of the Magic communities condition?
And you're clearly upset with the way the direction of the game has gone, but you haven't shown why that direction is actually bad. Some of the worst times in competitive magic were the result of spell based combo decks basically destroying the game, after all, so it makes sense that spells would see a general depowering.
>>48079776
So you can't give an example then?
>>48079325
>womyn
Not welcome
>women
Welcome. Rare, but welcome
>>48079879
I'd rather a handful people had club meetings than everyone had Internet shitposting boards.
>>48079879
You mean the /tg/ everyone complains is being 'polluted' by normies, redditors and millenials while arguing the old /tg/ was better?
>>48079878
So both people compromise rather than one person being unhappy and one person happy?
>>48079923
At this point, I'm starting to realize you are just being intelectually dishonest. Not replying your shitpost anymore.
>>48079325
Why wouldn't the green guy become black over time?
>>48079878
Ok, I have no idea what you're talking about.
First of all, you brought music into the picture, which has nothing to do with what we're talking about, and also makes you a terrible person.
Second of all, your example has nothing to do with the concept we're discussing. Your example involves fringe things losing their fanbase over being too fringe, when the argument is that fringe things gain mainstream appeal and are ruined by it. You'd have been far better served(ok, not at all, but let's pretend) by using a selling out analogy.
Also, why wouldn't the guy just go to merzbow or whatever himself, and go to entirely different concerts with his girlfriend? Or why wouldn't they each go to their own things, and then spend time together on something they both enjoy?
>>48079943
Her compromise was going to the shows with him when she wasn't into the artists. And then going again when she hated the first artist.
>>48079923
>So both people compromise rather than one person being unhappy and one person happy?
The problem is that you compromise to make the amount of people happy, instead of letting people follow their own paths and becoming super ultra happy instead of just happy
>>48079910
That is literally the truth, though. I've been here since the start, and it's become really Reddit tier. The only good thing to happen to this board in years is the purging of quest threads.
>>48079962
Also, I can't fucking tell either way, but why is the second artist worse than the first?
>>48079986
Yea, because Jim Profit was a great example of the quality of this board.
Or shall we dig up even older examples of how /tg/ used to be shit to appease your misguided idea that old /tg/ was better?
>>48079325
Nah. My group consists of close friends who aren't socially retarded. If someone joins that we don't like or who doesn't fit in we will say so and eject them as is right and proper. If you can not only stand us being generally unapologetic jackasses but also maintain your own in much the same way you can not only stay but join us afterwards at the bar.
>>48079986
Too bad they aren't leaving because the mods aren't enforcing their ghetto.
Surprised nobody has decided to use WoW as an example yet. I know this is /tg/, but it's relatively the same ain't it? Game gets watered down and then the devoted original players leave since it's no longer what they want, but casual players aren't devoted enough to commit and so also leave in time.
>>48080033
Or maybe people just finally realized that WoW was shit to start with?
>I liked it before it was cool
The picture assumes that you, the person angry at the current state of the game, are black. Given that you probably aren't Gary Gygax's ghost, you're actually green at best.
>>48080033
And so they leave for more hardcore, newer MMORPGs where they can enjoy and stay devoted until the developers of that game start to casualize it.
NOTHING OF VALUE IS LOST.
COMMUNITIES CHANGE.
DEAL WITH IT.
>>48079325
Far more relevant to computer games and comics than ttrpgs
>>48080033
No need to go that far.
Just look at MtG and some tabletops.
Chad Thundercocks and Gamer Girlz infesting everything to look "cool and nerdy".
>>48079325
Like people, you mouthbreathing retard. Throw out the shit players and keep the okay ones.
>>48080008
>Jim Profit
You mean the guy we all shit on every day whenever he made a post, whose name now triggers an autoban?
/tg/ was fine. It shittalked the guy 'till he was gone.
>>48080054
It's shit by modern standards, which WoW largely helped to establish (and have since moved on from it). At the time of release, WoW was quite revolutionary and I do not recall anybody making actual criticism of the game beyond extremely minor points.
People like you claim Seinfeld isn't funny.
>>48080054
Soul crushing
I have never seen any "dudebros" into MtG so despite being a 20 year old hobby it must only be at the "omg females" step 4.
>>48079325
im sorry Op that cool people joined your group and improved it
Nothing's better than laughing at fours eyes over there due to him taking games seriously
Nerds deserve to be laughed.
Also I'm guessing this means now wouldn't be the time to jump back into standard
>>48080111
Not agreeing with OP, but I can definitely see hipsters playing MtG with prefab decks in their board game-themed bars while drinking artisanal microbrews in the next five to eight years.
>>48080111
It's definitely at the female step. I'm actually pretty okay with the girls who come to our LGS, though it's baffling how they come every week and have no idea how to play the game.
>EDH night
>girl flashes me the japanese rune-scarred demon in her hand
>"What does this card do again?"
>she's asked me this at least two other times in prior weeks
>she was the one who put it in her deck
>>48079325
>Implying the initial group does not contain females to begin with
>Not realizing you are probably an autistic grognard
In my experience, the females are even more invested in the RP, which is exactly what I search for because I like my games to be 100% in character in a simulationist system.
I don't see where what you are implying. Where do you see systems going more normie? I am genuinly interested where you see this? Just don't play the normie systems?
I mean, what stops you from playing GURPS, SW:EotE or something?
Or are you one of those autists that think RP is for normies and hates on story driven games?
>>48079399
No, really, stop being a retard.
>>48080163
SHE WANTS TO FUCK YOU, YOU DUMB DUMB NIGGER.
EITHER FUCK HER, OR CLEARLY TELL HER YOU'RE NOT INTERESTED.
>b-but why do you think she's like that?
Because I refuse to believe people are that dumb.
>>48080181
>asking someone what a card does means you want to fuck them
>>48079943
How is that being intellectually dishonest? Also: That was my first reply of the entire thread.
>>48080197
She already asked him TWICE before that.
Again, I refuse to believe people are that dumb.
>>48080140
Eh, I don't like the cardpool that much, but it's worth a look.
>>48080181
I can assure you for a number of reasons she doesn't want to fuck me. She was very sincere in forgetting what it does.
>>48080233
Well, your funeral, buddy.
>>48080163
>>48080181
>"What does this card do again?"
>"It gets my attention. Just like you."
>>48079325
>What's /tg/ opinion about pic related?
I think that it's an incredibly naive interpretation of reality that's put forth by insulated people who can't effectively cope with leaving their tiny bubble of experience and react negatively by blaming others for their own inability to cope with change and the cognitive dissonance caused by the bursting of the fragile false ideological narrative of the world that they created for themselves.
>>48080065
>I liked it before it was cool
Yeah, this is just the D&D nerd equivalent of that cancerous segment of punk rock that sits around bitching about how punk is being ruined by all the "poseurs" who aren't real punks.
IE a complete circlejerking waste of time
>not one mention of 4chan itt
>>48080304
>being able to identify women or dudebros on 4chan
>>48080280
Exclusivity is an appeal, even if something is exclusive only by dint of its unpopularity.
>>48079441
Game of thrones is a pretty good example desu.
>>48080033
I never played WoW. Is it really dying due to watering down? I know the devs have made some shitty decisions recently but I didn't think it was to appeal to a 'casual' crowd,.
>>48080263
>I think that it's an incredibly naive interpretation of reality
>makes an incredibly naive interpretation afterwards
Ok, womyn or minority? No problem, no one is going to judge you.
>>48080263
>In any given situation, I can't possibly imagine having sympathy for anyone who can't handle people. So, I find where these shy people hang out and bash them every chance I get.
>>48080348
But "the original crowd" never approved of Game of Thrones. They enjoy A Song of Ice and Fire, which has no appeal whatsoever with most women and dudebros.
This happens in occasionally in individual groups but not the hobby overall
>>48080280
> that cancerous segment of punk rock that sits around bitching about how punk is being ruined by all the "poseurs" who aren't real punks
They do have a point, though.
Punk was a violent subculture focused on enacting actual real-life change. Punk rock was one of the movement's creative outlets.
Basically, the movememnt became teethless, because it became mainstream, and mainstream just isn't violent - instead of the movement changing the society, the society suberted the movement from within.
>>48079325
You have critically overestimated how much women care about attention.
>>48079468
>i hate doublethink
This is at least three levels of irony.
>>48080280
Punk actually was ruined by "fake" punks though, at least for the OG crowd.
Punk rock was the music of a social group co opted by people not a part of that group nor with intent to assimilate into it but who appreciated the media produced by it. This made socializing within that social group a real fucking pain in the ass.
>>48080429
Have you ever met most women.
Women need attention in the same way they need air and food.
However few women would need to resort to this to get attention as much much simpler and easier routes abound.
The manager of the largest game store in my area is the lead vocalist in a heavy metal band. Methinks this pic is inaccurate.
>>48080348
I meant an example of something literally collapsing because the core players abandoned it after being invaded by women and Alphas. Last time I checked Game of thrones is still doing pretty fucking well for itself.
>>48079325
>how to deal with womyn and minorities that join the game you're in?
Like people.
>>48080493
I have 3 Sisters. I think I know women. That is a serious overestimate on what women need.
>>48080513
Women don't seek attention from their siblings.
>>48080513
To be fair, women don't eat much and they've got pretty titchy lungs.
>>48080534
I've also seen them interact for years with other people beside me and I've spent plenty of time with their friends.
I guess on the smaller scale it just means you weren't picky enough if it happens to your group. On the larger scale it happens, but not all the time, and at some point I imagine all these migratory archetype people will probably move on
>>48080375
Maybe in the sense it requires reading I guess. The first two seasons were more or less faithful to the books aside from combining a couple character and leaving out a few expensive to film details. After that it sort of just stayed similar until the most recent two where it just went all over the place (particularly the last)
>>48079480
>I also play in an RL ERP which has resulted in more than one orgy
How does such a game even come to be?
>>48080500
>literally collapse
That isn't part of the claim. The claim is that from the original "hardcore" fans perspective the new content being produced and quality of discussion goes down as the hobby shifts it's intention to serving the expanding casual audience to the point that the content being produced no longer is worth consuming.
See World of warcraft, game of thrones, warhammer fantasy, the elder scrolls, fallout, any nerdy thing that gets very popular goes through this to some degree or another.
>>48080493
Attention is nice (sometimes, but very often not) but it's not typically worthwhile to go out of your way for it.
>>48080348
>Expects amerian tv screenwriters to have integrity
kek.
It was obvious from the get go that they would butcher the books, popular or not. Their problem was that they could not resist the typical book adapters urge to include their own inventions even if it goes against the spirit of the source material and include dumb bullshit because they bent a source material that relied on innovative pacing and storytelling techniques into a standard issue hollywood plot straight jacket. This was completely unsurprising and a detriment to the source material as soon as they did it. In the first two seasons they avoided total fuckup, just to promptly fail in the third and panic about loosing interest because it appealed less to fans AND to normies. They then decided "fuck, the normies are no longer watching because muh complexity" even though this contradicted their own experience, leading to them butchering it in the 4th season. Then they continued to decrease quality by changing the story so much that it ist just close enaugh to the original story to spoil the fun of anyone who will read the comming books, but starts to appeal uncultured american fatasses watching tv all day. In the process they have lost the fans AND the normie with taste, because SURPRISE SURPRISE, even normies can appreciate quality, which hollywood is incapable of, so they allways have to save themselves in the end by making it shit and exposing their own shittyness resulting in a show that is no longer good but still watched by the unwashed masses because they want to know how it ended.
Also see: Lost, TWD and pretty much every other amercan TV show
This is a terrible example, as it is specific to tv making and does not work for normies in ttrpgs, because there is nothing there to bait their interest for long enaugh to extract cash, it just does not work for an rpg.
Result:The group splinters, the normies lose interest, a new group is formed with the old guys and the assimilated normies
>>48080652
They occur when someone's power level rises high enough to create an actual magical realm.
And that magical realm doesn't terrify all lower-level people into running.
>>48080493
This is legit misogyny.
>>48079480
>I also play in an RL ERP which has resulted in more than one orgy
In-character or out-of-character?
Also, an orgy can be three people. How big an orgy are we talking here?
>>48079480
>f you don't think this is likely, you might be some sort of fucking communist.
I will never not be flabbergasted that this is seriously an insult in America.
>>48080737
>women and men have different wants and needs
>u hate women
wew lad
>>48080771
It isn't.
>>48080065
It's just like how everyone conveniently dates the time 4chan went to shit to 6 months to 2 years after they started using it. I've been here since '07, when everyone said the site had sucked since '05 or '06. Apparently the new narrative is that it died in 2012, and I'm sure in another few years people are going to get all nostalgic about how great 2016 was. Each time they have specific reasons to justify that claim, but it's all actually bullshit.
>>48080771
It's really not, unless you come from a backwoods shithole that still thinks it's 1955.
>>48080771
Communists are too well known here for it to not be an insult
>>48080780
Misogyny also includes mistrust and fear. Implying than all women are attention whores is pretty mistrustful.
>>48080771
>>48080790
>>48080822
Fuck off you godless communist whoresons.
>>48080780
Also, generalizing the wants of a demographic with something as arbitrary as gender is, at best, painting with the broadest strokes known to humanity.
>>48080780
And, as you surely know, few things in psychology are so simple as to be generalized like that.
>>48080829
No, that's gynophobia.
Gynophobia is also a video game.
This thread is shit but I want to tell you my story OP, because it is more or less the opposite of this.
I started playing MtG again about two or three years ago, during my two last highschool years, with two new friends: one I initially thought was some kind of dumb metalhead/hipster asshole hybrid, but turned out he is one of the most bro-tier guys I have ever known, and a nerdy gay dude. Like, totally fucking gay. First time he talked to me it was to ask me if I wanted a blowjob.
So we started playing around the end of Theros. Me and metalbro are pretty serious about it while not putting hundreds of dollars in a deck (we already had a few hundred of cards because we played when we were younger), gaynerd isn't but buys a lot of booster packs because he's into greek mythos. Around June, we're joined by a guy who I think is a legit autist, but pretty cool as long as you don't ask him about dinosaurs or Digimon or you know how to handle him. He's pretty bad at Magic, but we do 3 or 4 players games, so even he with his badly constructed 80 cards deck has a chance. We're pretty fucking casual.
Four or five months later, people start aggregating around us, and suddenly MtG becomes immensely popular at our school. There is almost a dozen new players at the lgs, and I'm only counting those I can actually remember the name of. And almost every single one of them is stupidly competitive compared to our initially laid back casual environment. Netdecking and 10$+ cards are everywhere. Two games out of three turns into dick waving contests. Shortly after, me, metalbro and gaynerd run the fuck away from this cancerous shithole.
Now we only play at the lgs when we've got hours free in the middle of the day, because we know the loudest and most assholish nerds won't get out of their caves before 2pm, or at each other's house, with a few ultra-casuals, some of which don't even have their own deck, and the few nerds that are decent people.
>>48080980
I get the nostalgia for the days when it was "us against the world," but it's so much better now. It's so much easier to find people to do this stuff with and to convince new players to try it out. We have so many more options for systems and war/card games. No one gives a shit about your powerlevel anymore as long as you have some basic level of hygiene and social skills.
>>48080923
Don't get into semantics. It's an accurate use of the word. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/misogyny
>>48080361
>I never played WoW. Is it really dying due to watering down? I know the devs have made some shitty decisions recently but I didn't think it was to appeal to a 'casual' crowd,.
WoW was always casual compared with it's early contemporaries like the endless grind of Everquest or the killing fields of Ultima.
WoW is dying because their player base has migrated to even more casual moba shit.
>>48080822
>this shitty example
>denying the fact that traditional games and hobbies are being taken over by girls and normies
Just open your eyes.
>>48080980
Your story doesn't apply exactly because in OP's pic, you and your casual friends are analogically the green one(s). The latter players are the brown one(s).
Unfortunately, by your example, it all makes sense. You just indirectly agreed with it.
>>48079325
Dem Grog Tears~
>>48082397
As a legit grognard from the 80s, I remember when D&D was sold in Toys R Us, and "women and normies" were buying it. The big boom of D&D in the early 80s was a great time, but it died down quickly.
I blame AD&D, which appealed to hardcore autismo nerds. The hobby as a whole increasingly focused on selling to those guys, especially in the 90s, and the result was a decade long contraction in the size of the market, such that this market virtually collapsed in on itself on a couple of occasions.
If you ask me, bringing back the "normies" is just returning tabletop to where it should have been if TSR hadn't led the industry down that cul-de-sac of trying to sell to a tiny minority.
>>48082728
Wasn't D&D originally designed to be pretty casual? Most of the rules were optional add-ons at the DM's discretion, yeah?
>>48082794
OD&D wasn't, but Basic began as an intro to OD&D, then became its own thing.
Advanced was created partly to avoid paying royalties to Dave Arneson, and partly to create a standardized "tournament" set of rules.
I feel like this is what's happened to SS13 in a way, everything's about being robust now and shit, I just want to have a laugh at the clown setting up a singularity in the bathroom, not the clown 420 no scoping the HoS
