Tanks, titan and all other veichles edition
>Rules databases
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
https://kat.cr/warhammer-40k-pdf-library-t9575373.html
>FAQs
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Rules-Errata
>40k 7th edition quick reference sheet(s)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4104995/Games/7edRef.pdf
>Forgeworld Book index
http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Forge_World_and_Apocalypse_Rules_Index
>White Dwarves
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/tx4hcy4u487pv/WD
>Novels (Working link as of 02/02/2016)
https://mega.nz/#F!wx4BiKhD!YhnAf1BqSmAB8dO6xDM56Q
>ORKZ IZ MADE FER KRUMPIN
>>47900328
Does that mean what I think it means? Because I am down for some ork on ork scissor-fucking.
>>47900328
Yes, they were made to be krump'd.
>>47900288
First for all vehicles are garbage and that's why no one ever used them.
>>47900440
5th for youre just jealous of how amazing Chimeras are.
>>47900328
>>47900401
>win games as Orks
>tell /tg/
>they call you a lier
Going up against a skyhammer/libarius imperial fists army this weekend, any tips?
>>47900464
Sixth foryou're right, I really am.
>>47900440
>First for all vehicles are garbage and that's why no one ever used them.
Speak for yourself.
>>47900489
Stretch your asshole out with a smallish dildo the morning before so it's not so rough. Also, bring plenty of lube.
Newbie so might be a dumb question but whats the cheapest way to build a jump pack HQ? Does the Space Marine Commander box come with a jump pack or do I just build one from the Vanguard box?
>>47900489
>lose games as orks
>tell /tg/
>they call you a cuck or whatever and you just wish 40k wasn't such a shitty game
>>47900489
All Grav? Or can he into magnets?
>>47900536
I dunno, I beat this guy so many times he's resorting to this.
I'm kinda confident I'm going to win.
>>47900493
WHY ARE CHIMERAS SO GREAT /TG/?
WHY ARE RHINOS SO SHIT IN COMPARISON?
>>47900489
Surround your gubbins in fodder, counter charge and kill.
Good luck boss.
>>47900571
how do you do it, dude?
what's your list look like? what's the plan when you start the game?
>>47900572
Because C.S. Goto.
>>47900570
All I know is this
>One squad will be grav because of the meme
>each devisator squad will have a different loadout
>assault sargents will have power axes
>he will have a vindicator and deimos pattern vindicator
>>47900622
>Boyz out the ass
>Killy shit behind the boyz
He will come to you, feed him boyz then charge, take cover from the vindicator.
>>47900572
rules wise, or fluff wise?
Rules, they have enough gun to be a nice little workhorse for their point, and guard are squishy enough that the benefit from having the extra protection is much more.
Rhinos let marines move 12" and that's all.
>>47900622
>using grav against Orks
I kek'd, do you spam MANZ against him or something?
A rhino is a poor man's drop pod.
So I'm building a Tau army, but I don't want to be a colossal faggot. I'd like to center the army around crisis suits and kroot, with plenty of stuff to gimp it sufficiently.
So far I've got:
>6 crisis suits, a commander, 2 broadsides, 1 riptide (won't field unless I need to fill points quick)
>30 kroot, 6 kronor hounds, 2 krootox, 3 knarloc riders
>unit of fire warriors, unit of pathfinders
Any suggestions to keep it fun yet not too weak at 1250?
>>47900693
They also eat up a round of shooting that the Marines would have taken otherwise.
>>47900748
biggest difference between a rhino and a drop pod is that I actually enjoyed building my rhinos. I converted a drop pod to a dreadclaw though...that was fun. and saved me 60 ameribucks from having to buy the forgeworld one.
>>47900593
Mostly by getting lucky I admit.
Warboss on a bike, Not-warboss in mega armour, weirdboy, deff dread, dakka jet and mek gunz.
I tabled him turn 4 last time I tabled his marines, time before that I shot his nids off the time, before that I stomped all over his cult mech, murdered his knight army and my deff dread ate all his thunderwolves for breakfast.
This is the last straw he says, he's going all out with the cheesiest stuff he has, I'm just going to swarm all my good stuff with grotz and boyz for cover and just hold on to my arse.
Mek gunz are safe as they're toughness 7 and armour save nothing so he's going to need lascannons to kill my grots, meganobz in a trukk and my biker boss in a big group of bikes, wish me luck.
>>47900707
He just wants them because he doesn't have any grav and everyone says it's a really good weapon so he's building a dev squad with 4 cannons.
I have one squad of MANZ but they do tend to ruin his day, last game the not-warboss ate two of the vindicators lasers to the face only for a weird-boy to return fire with a killbolt and blow it up.
>>47900797
>murdered his knight army
H O W
O
W
>>47900797
>Knights army tabled by Orks
>/tg/ still thinks Knights are overpowered
kek
>Mek gunz are safe as they're toughness 7 and armour save nothing
Aren't they 3+?
>>47900858
The guns are but the 10 grots manning them don't have an armour save so you go by the majority.
>>47900797
Doing gods work anon, keep up the green fight
>>47900881
You go by whatever's in front. Only toughness is group majority.
>>47900846
eehhh, I guess it's not the whole truth to call it a 'knight army'.
It was a 1000 point game, my orks vs his grey knights with allied knight.
After a failed charge my tank bustas, deff dread, MANZ and warboss jumped on it all at once. The first squad of grey knights with grandmaster came down and got disintegrated by kustom mega kannons leaving the second squad to fight off over 40 boyz by themselves.
>>47900761
only a few, and an equivalent cost of marines could have taken those shots.
While an equivelent cost of guardsmen could have taken the few higher str shots that that took down the chimera, the guardsmen would have evaporated under a couple of blasts.
AV12 front also means they were likely using at least S6 shots against it. AV11 on the rhino means that a storm bolter can open it up, and a multilaser likely will.
A rhino is basically two marines standing in front of the squad who happen to let the squad move 12", but making it so only 2 of them can fire snap shots.
A chimera is an Ogryn with two big guns standing in front of the guardsmen, who lets them move 12" and still have 6 fire at BS 3.
>>47900936
Where does it say that in the rulebook?
>>47900564
Get the vanguard box, a pack of extra jump packs (from the bits section on the GW site or an ebay guy), a tactical squad, and maybe a command squad or sternguard squad.
All of that are stuff you probably need anyways but this way you can kit out a pretty nice 10 man crew to follow your Chapter Master around.
Could I get some help with making a Vostroyan regiment? I was thinking about them being sent to garrison a sector filled with rednecks in space who distrust outsiders and who make outsiders "disappear". Thoughts?
>VLADIMIR, IF YOU SEE THAT FARMER'S DAUGHTER ONE MORE TIME I SWEAR ON THE MURDER KUBE OF THE EMPEROR I WILL KILL YOU.
>Ivan, relax. You see, Ivan, when you're not a stupid hick you can't be shot by stupid hick.
>>47900440
Speak for yourself
>>47900858
The problem is /tg/ underrates ork, not overrates knights.
I know tyranids are shit but i like the models and lore so that's what i'm rolling with for my first army. I haven't played yet but i'm building my army and plan on playing a 2-4 person friendly game at home soon. No clue what i'm up against or what game type we're playing so i'm just trying to be well rounded. What do yall think of this list.
750 Pts Tyranids
HQ
Hive Tyrant (240 Pts) TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms(2), Electroshock Grubs, Wings, ,
Tyranid Prime (150 Pts) The Miasma Cannon, Devourers, ,
Troops
Tyranid Warrior Brood (110 Pts)
- Tyranid Warrior (3): Scything Talons(3), Deathspitter(2), Venom Cannon, ,
Tyranid Warrior Brood (100 Pts)
- Tyranid Warrior (3): Scything Talons(3), Devourers(2), Barbed Strangler, ,
Ripper Swarm Brood (45 Pts)
- Ripper Swarm (3): Deep Strike(3), ,
Ripper Swarm Brood (45 Pts)
- Ripper Swarm (3): Deep Strike(3), ,
Fast Attack
Gargoyle Brood (60 Pts)
- Gargoyle Swarm (10): Blinding Venom, Fleshborer
Discuss.
>>47900440
Sounds like you're bad at playing IG or you got smashed by Leman Russes.
>>47901076
People actually pay points for the Burning Chariot? It doesn't count if you're just summoning them.
>Vehicles are great, look at all the transports I use!
Saying undercosted transports designed to die so your units won't isn't a great argument for how vehicles aren't in a shitty place right now.
While we are on the subject, a moment of silence for the Monolith.
>>47901163
Whats the hull gun on all the old style Russ anyway?
>>47901158
I'm not a weeb so Idk who or what those cat names belong to.
>>47901165
I've Payed for them twice. In the first game it killed a Russ and a couple of guard squads and in the other it killed a drop-pod two dreadnoughts and some marine squads. Although, I usually just summon them.
>>47900797
shit, you field a weirdboy? what kind of results does it put up?
>>47901005
It's conspicuously not mentioned on page 36, the page after it mentions majority Toughness. It also mentions each model taking saves in turn (compared to Wounds, which are rolled all at once against a unit).
>>47901342Weird ones
>>47901200
Lascannon
>>47901163
started IG, and was just not that impressed by their durability.
Though it was a small points game and they seemed like they were just immune to most guns, but then folded as soon as you go the right type of gun at them.
>>47901193
>Vehicles are shit because of that one time 5 years ago when my LR exploded from a laspistol
>>47901342
He's actually pretty good in my manz squad. Kill bolt and power vomit are insanely powerful, warpath never goes amiss and a little bit of psychic defense on my high value squad is worth it if they try to scream my nobz to death.
planning on having an IG + inquisition allies list.
I plan to bring servo skulls to form synergy with a manticore and veteran demo charge templates.
>>47901485
any suggestions?
>>47901415
Pretty much, hide them at the back with camo netting.
>>47901429
vehicles aren't shit, but the new rules seriously cracked down on their survivability, and things were not changed to compensate for this.
So you get shit like predators the tougher way of holding those heavy weapons compared to a devastator squad of similar cost. Land Raiders aren't reliable ways to deliver assault units. Trukks vanish before they can add more than 6 inches of mobility. etc.
vehicles that are good are transports, carry a gun you can't get outside of a vehicle, or something like that. They aren't the tougher way to mount a weapon, but they are costed like they are.
>>47901415
>started IG, and was just not that impressed by their durability.
Well their fluff is that they pretty much just drown their enemies in bodies.
>>47901522
well I wanted to get punisher pask in range to brrrt down things. But poor positioning got me. I didn't realise how easy it was for my opponent to get an angle where the ruins were only covering like 10% of my hull.
The 3+ save would likely have helped a lot.
>>47901415
Leman Russes are really cheap for their durability
in larger lists you can take tons of them
>>47901158
Does that mean Maki moves faster than the others when on the battlefield with Orks?
For the guy who posts the
>Orks are a melee race
>I2
meme, I have a question.
Do you hate Orks or GW's treatment of Orks?
Not starting shit, just curious.
>>47901415
Well, yeah, if someone gets lucky with a gravgun or a melta it'll blow up and be very sad.
The way I use them is setting up my army around them in such a way that they never seem like the most dangerous target -- like having 30 conscripts coming closer to an objective or something.
With IG you have to play all your strengths (cheap bodies, many shots, artillery, orders and tonks) all at once, always, to have a chance of doing something.
>>47901030
Anyone?
>>47901570
durability of the Russ.
I'm running heavy mech guard.
Escalation, working towards punish pask squad +emperor's spear+ emperor's wrath.
>>47901505
Get death cult assassins, they're good.
Make the inquisitor your warlord and put them in a squad.
>>47901544
>the new rules seriously cracked down on their survivability
Did you skip 6E or something? Vehicle survivability is way better than it was.
>>47901583
>grav gun.
so fucking cheesy. Immobilized is damn close to just destroying the tank. Roll one 6 to wound, ruin the vehicle.
Melta's I can deal with because they take positioning. Grav is dumb.
>>47901582
Not him. Originally it was an Aussie Ork player who decided to laugh at himself, but some /v/ermin or other idiot decided to take over.
>>47901604
meant since 5th. They learned a little in 6, not enough.
>>47901625
It is dumb as fuck, but I have managed to beat my drop pod grav spam mate in half our matches by just having a fuckload of dudes stopping him from deep striking too close to the tanks
Although he plays CAD cause he's too lazy to work out the formations
Overall the Leman Russ is kinda weak at the moment, what with the lackluster BS and the ordinance cannons forcing snapshots and especially the huge number of ways to counter heavy armor at the moment.
But I think they work well if you use formations and units to boost their stats.
>>47901076
When and how was this EVER good?
It's weapon is heavy and the flamed doesn't have the Relentless special rule.
>>47901711
>leman russ formation
It would work... if it didn't cost like 800 pts.
In fact the entire IG detachment would be great, if they cut 1 off of every requirement number greater than 1 for the core formations.
>>47901723
Pretty sure the chariot rider counts as stationary even if the chariot moves in 7th ed. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
crew shaken should only reduce you to bs1 so you can still fire blasts/flamers, stunned should be the only one that forces snap shots, y/n
>>47901125
do you know what armies you might be playing against?
>>47901723
Rider counts as stationary mate.
What kind of implants would a "Augmented Troops" Penal Legion have? and who would have it? would every penal guardsmen have a augment?
>>47901802
Well, really it depends.
Could be anything from loyalty protocals Admech style, to being specially roided up.
>>47901802
good representation for that is renegades and heretics, with the heretek magos, as well as enforcers with combat drug Injectors, fnp 6+ for 10 points a squad, and rage on the charge with a toughness test or lose d3 models
Idiot new player here, making an IG list.
Are veterans or scions a better use of points?
>>47901862
I misread the file name as "Canadian with plasma gun"
>>47901862
depends on what you need done, scions are best used for suicide deep strikes and spot removal, veterans are good for saturating with special weapons and Chimera spam
>>47901741
I sort of agree. For me it feels like a single IG formation should make up the core of your army, with everything else dumped into a CAD.
My 1850 and 2000 point lists right now abide by that philosophy: An emp's fist tank formation, and everything else dumped into a CAD. This works for me because I'm all about the tanks anyways and I still get objective secured on all my troops. I imagine something similar could be done with Valkyries and I know for a fact infantry blobs can do it. But for mechguard I can't think of anything better than the CAD to begin with so your vets and chimeras are sorta SOL.
>>47901862
veterans, always. Unless you're going for a melta suicide squad of 5 dudes deep striking (hopefully) near a tank.
>>47901888
Scions only get 2 special weapons per squad, right?
I just wanted to mention all guardsmen typically are right handed(hand holding their gun) and all chaos cultist seem to be left handed. Not only does this make modding difficult but also implies that my left handedness is a sign of chaos corruption.
That is all.
>>47901906
yep, but the command squad as part of the Platoon can take 4
>>47901913
>left handedness is a sign of chaos corruption
Obviously it is you Chaos worshiping mutant.
>>47901158
Girls only play Eldar
>>47901906
command squads for scions can take up to four, but I use a vox, a medic pack, a plasma pistol and 2 plasma guns.
I need that invulnerability save
>>47901796
Well that's a relief but it's still got Warpflame and AV 10 right?
>>47901934
well I have cut myself a lot while making my army, does that count as ritual bloodletting?
>>47901977
Khorne cares not from where the blood flows as long as it flows.
>>47901949
what invulnerable save? does the vox give you an invul? or maybe you're thinking of a feel no pain save?
>>47901970
The rider's weapon's and melee attacks have warpflame as well as the chariots hammer of wrath attacks. It is AV10 but it can jink and lets you split wounds between the chariot and rider both of which have an invuln.
>>47901597
Don't own any land raiders to make them survivable. Or any death cult assassin's for that matter.
As I understand the rules. I'd have to bring IG as an allied detachment with only two vets
>>47902007
yes, feel no pain.
I am retard
>>47902032
*If I wanted to make the inquisitor the warlord.
>>47902042
I kinda hate the scions rules, but I got myself 20 of the old Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and 10 Karskin, so I end up using them on every list.
I'm considering buying a Taurox just to use the Respawning scions Start Collecting formation.
>>47901582
Gw treatment. The idea that orkz are slow and as graceful as a brick is funny and fluffy, but when they changed furious charge to make orkz hit after guard and at the same time as tau and necrons shows some major disrespect.
I dont care if im playing a npc race, but at least a melee army options to close the gap better. Tyranids get fleet, i get a couple charge rerolls that only help like a third of time.
And all that is before some of the most overpriced shit in the game. 6 points for a boy, 10 to make em a nob then another 25 to get some ap2. Fucking insane. Its unreal they go and make the shockattack 50 points. Dont get me wrong, its a lot of fun, same with blitza bombas and crashing head first into dreadknights.But it hurts that i have to minmax my armies half the time just so i dont get tabled.
Shit maybe i am just bitter.
>>47902097
You are definetely bitter, but you have reason to.
I have read practically every goddamn 40k/HH novel there is
and no I'm not some turboautist that thinks I'm better or whatever than anyone because of it, but I really love this setting and the lore behind it
AMA
>>47902131
What armies do you play
>>47902131
Will senpai ever come for me?
>>47902131
I'm a literary snob and I really don't like some of the things I've heard BL has done with the fluff.
Should I read any of it?
>>47902141
Orkz is my main force (have like 10,000 points or so)
I have a spattering of Deathwatch/Inquisition/Assassins though
>>47902167
I will not pretend any of the series are literally or lore masterpieces
Some of them are surprisingly well written, most are complete action scifi pulp schlock
Gaunt's Ghosts is one of my favorites, although it might never be finished, Abnett created some amazing characters in that series and it's a great ride reading them war across the Sabbat Worlds
>>47902211
god damn autocorrect
literary********
>>47902032
You can bring as many CADs as you want. ADs only exist to get around the 2 Troop tax.
Who is hyped for new FAQs? Next one is getting released today and not that many left anymore!
Dark Angels allied with Blood Angels. Yay or Nay?
>>47902329
>Dark Angels
Auto-nay
>>47902167
No. They're pretty childish books that you probably won't like if you have more refined tastes.
Is it worth it to spend 100 points on a Quadgun in an 1850 point army that otherwise has no Skyfire? Or should I just swap it in if my opponent has flyers? I don't really like the idea of tailoring my list for each opponent, but I also don't like the idea of getting wrecked.
>>47902403
1000% yes Yes YES
>>47902167
Eisenhorn and Ravenor are worth a read even if you are a snob in my opinion.
>>47902403
Depends on your opponents. Flyers and superheavies are things that I think should be known before list building (outside of tournaments).
Would it be okay to run a machine cult/Iron Warriors/dark mechanicus army by using Chaos Marines w/ Nurgle upgrades? They'd be modeled with metallic and techno bits instead of disease-based stuff. The +1t from Nurgle world represent bionics and such.
>>47902441
For pickup games. At 2000 points it seems like a given and under 1250 I'm not really worried about seeing too many flyers. At 1500 and 1850 I'm not really sure whether it gets included.
>>47902521
I do it, so...
>>47902521
It is CSMs. You could run a bunch of the models using a different codex and the other player would just nod sagely. I had an opponent who used Inquisition to represent Thousand Sons, with squads mixed between power armored acolytes and crusaders to act as rubric marines.
>>47902542
Depends on your meta. If you are giving up something important in your army for some anti-air, I'd say just skip it and ignore the flyer buzzing around the table. Very few flyers are dangerous enough that you have to deal with them.
>>47902553
>>47902577
Cool beans.
>>47902542
>Just man up and play my 5 knights bro
-guy at my flgs
Is the 40k general a good place for a newbie to get help building an army? I'd like to put together a collection of models where I can pull from them to make a 'take on all comers' well rounded list at 1850, 1500, 1000, 500.
Or is there any resource that I should be looking at for this kind of thing?
>>47902670
1d4chan has tips for each army that you can find by looking up "X tactics" on google.
People here are actually pretty okay for new people IME, it is the WAACs that they dislike.
>>47902670
Sure, what army? I'll see if I can try to help you, mate.
>>47902601
>"Yeah sure!"
>MFW I play list that can pretty easily wreck 2x knights per turn.
So anyone else read this? This whole series is throwing in some lore significant stuff.
Thing that has me more intrigued than anything is an actual Primarch making a return though, Vulkan shows up and smashes some ork shit up, resisting a gravity beam that was launching island sized rocks
I mean he's obviously going to redissapear when this is said and done, but it seems significant to me that they finally acknowledged a loyalist primarch still being around at all way post Heresy
>>47902708
tell me your secrets
>>47902699
I'm interested in CSM. I'm also interested in bringing in Chaos Demons as battle brothers and necrons as allies of convenience if it can help build out my army lists.
>>47902741
Its a 50-50 between wraith rapist eldar or some horrendous tau bullshit
>>47902741
Do people honestly have problems with Imperial Knights? Sure they have alot of firepower, but they tend to go down pretty quickly. Their directional Invul save is pretty easy to pass.
>>47902601
I've already accounted for superheavies, MCs, and blobs in my army. I'm not afraid of Knights or Riptides.
>>47902400
>They're pretty childish books
Dude, our whole HOBBY is childish.
>>47902768
CSM are really weak, Chaos Daemons are middle ranked to strong, and Necrons are still fairly strong but have been nerfed constantly since 7E started.
The strongest gods for chaos are Nurgle and Khorne. Khorne gets his own codex, which is middling but better than CSM, while Nurgle gets a set of formations for his daemons which is really awesome and his CSM bikers are hilariously tough (T6 bikers FTW).
For summoning and screamers for daemons there is also tzeentch, but he is the weakest for CSM.
>>47901886
>But for mechguard I can't think of anything better than the CAD to begin with so your vets and chimeras are sorta SOL.
emp's spear. If you don't need to open up a CAD for other slots, it's basically better than taking those units in a CAD.
Emp's Wrath is likely the best formation IG can take.
The none-core formations for that detachment are the good parts. It's the bloated core that's the problem. Emp's fist is okay, if a bit oversized. Emp's shield needs to be trimmed the fucked down to be remotely useable though.
>>47902790
post your list then
>>47900571
You will not. That list is auto pilot levels of retard proof. You will be taking a cock up your asshole. Begin preperations now.
>>47902810
CSM just weak everywhere, or weak in a way where I can shore up some of it with demons/necrons?
>>47902768
Oh buddy. You're going to have a rough tine if you go for CSM right now. Chaos Daemons are at the top of mid-tier, and Necrons are at the bottom of top-tier/top of mid-tier.
I suggest you stick to one army for now, and go with the one you like the most. Which one would you want to stick with the most?
>>47902878
CSM is weak everywhere. Everything is overcosted, they do not have access to the new SM stuff but their own unique stuff is mostly bad or weak, and all of their best units are available to other chaos factions (except some characters).
I suggest if you like mixing daemons and marines use Khorne Daemonkin, if not them then play Nurgle Chaos Daemons.
Necrons are really allied with for flyers, which is cheesy as fuck. There is no fluff reason for them to ally.
>>47902878
They're weak everywhere, 'shoring up' consists of taking as few models in power armor as possible. (i.e. the top tourny list of CSM is 1 almost-naked sorcerer, 2 min cultist squads, a helblade or two and a brass scorpion with allied chaos daemons for magic BS: which translates out to a single chaos space marine in the nominally chaos space marine army.)
>>47902881
I'm really the most interested in CSM, unfortunately. Maybe I could go Chaos Demons and sprinkle in CSM for flavor every once in a while for fun?
>>47902878
In fact CSMs are so bad that they are almost always better to use as Counts As Imperium. Space Wolf rules for Khorne, Inquisition or Grey Knights for Thousand Sons, SMs with Gravity for Slaneesh, etc.
ok /tg/. Prove you actually play this game. Post pics from your last game, or from the last game you took pics of.
>>47902992
Ha! Jokes on you, I've never played this game!
>>47902992
>taking pictures of your games
do people actually do that just as a thing?
>>47902796
Yes but the guy said he's a literary snob. It's possible he only like well written thought provoking literature but his other hobbies are all more basic.
>>47902989
>>47902937
>>47902927
Alright, so lets quantify how bad CSM are.
CSM is basically strictly worse than some other armies, yes? How much worse. Am I looking at having a -5% (45% to win on average) chance of winning right off the bat due to power balance? Or is it more like -30% (20% chance to win on average) when facing stronger armies?
>>47902992
>>47903012
>not having physical proof for an online frog sniffing forum that you play a kiddies game for children
wew
>>47902741
Our meta is ultra competetive (we train for ETC) and I play list that could be counted as ultra faggotry.
If I would play "normal" army like CSM I would just skip the game with frull Knight army. They arent fun to play against outside of tournament games.
>all this talk of how shit CSM are is triggering my PTSD
New CSM codex when
please
i'm dying
>>47903047
>unpainted models
>straight from the dump terrain
>FUCKING MR POTATO HEAD
>>47903045
They're the second worse army in the game.
30k, however, makes the traitor legions pretty strong and balanced, as they use the same books as the loyalists, just with different legion tactics and unique units.Fluffwise, Word Bearers run with 30k rules makes sense too, considering they've always remained a unified legion.
>>47903084
orks are better than csm.
![MoAQjf7[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/y5teYOx.gif "MoAQjf7[1].gif")
>>47903065
>>47903093
CSM are better than Orks.
>>47903093
Cyclopian Cabal would like to have a word with you.
>>47902855
Canoness
5 Battle Sister Squads (2 Melta, 4 MM Immolators, one has extra sisters instead)
3 Exorcists
Coteaz
GK Librarian ML3
GK Terminators (Psycannon, Halberds)
Dreadknight (Psycannon, Greatsword)
ADL (Quadgun)
If I get rid of the Quadgun, I'll replace the Canoness and a Battle Sister Squad with Celestine and a Seraphim Squad (8 bolter, 2 flamer).
>>47903084
I wonder if the 30k v 40k points disadvantage is worse than the overcosted-ness of the current CSM dex.
>>47903058
I still look through it sometimes.
I wish we never had the dinobots.
>>47903172
Nope. It's still better than CSM. I'd say about mid-tier, and certain legions gain fearlessness, or close to it.
Plus, a lot of the units are still a lot better. Gal Vorbak, for example, one of the Word Bearers unique units. Far better than Posessed, are they not?
>>47903172
No, all of the traitor Legions and their RoW are better than the CSM codex.
>>47903045
orcs are worse. Nids are also worse if you discount high tyrant spam.
Against even the mid tier armies like IG, Deldar, etc CSM are going to have a pretty hard time.
Against top tier like eldar... I run aspect dar, the non-cheese varient. I have trouble making a list where I don't utterly dominate my CSM playing friend.
I run it melee focus, with two units of banshees, and I still get close to tabling them.
>>47903084
That doesn't really quantify it for me. I don't know how much worse the worst army is than the best army. A few percentage points? or is the spread so far that it's virtually impossible for some races to beat others.
>>47902992
i haven't been taking pictures lately but here's a shot from back in march, i went to visit my best friend and he almost tabled me. i believe the score was 11-12, he pulled it out the win at the last second
>>47903432
You'll have a bad time against armies that are mid-tier, and you will almost never come close to winning* against anything better than mid-tier.
*As in, you will never even come close to looking like you could possibly have a chance of even having fun if losing's not your thing.
>>47903427
This.
>>47900440
Subtract remaining hull points from pen results.
>>47903463
which armies are in which tier, and how disparate are the tiers?
>>47902131
What are your thoughts on alpha legion motives
>>47902810
Tzeentch daemons are definitely the strongest of any of the relevant daemon alignments
Daemons are definitely a top tier codex as well
>>47902878
If you're deadset on taking some actual chaos space marines, consider playing KDK as they have formations that allow you to take khornate marines and bikers while still being very effective. Otherwise daemons can be an effective way to turn a CSM list up in difficulty for your opponent, and currently it's more or less a geometric relation, the more daemons you use, the better your list will be. Until you just end up playing daemons.
>>47902329
Just make sure to only use the blood angels for Melee, your dark angels should be doing all the shooting while the ba rush in
>>47903504
Probably:
Tier 1: Eldar, Space Marines, Tau
Tier 1.5: Necrons, Chaos Space Marines
Tier 2: Space Wolves (and other not-SMs), Khorne Daemonkin, Skitarii+Mechanicum, Imperial Knights, Eldar Corsairs
Tier 3: The rest of Imperium
Tier 4: Nids, Dark Eldar, Chaos, then Orks.
>>47903552
That seems to contradict what everyone else has been saying
>>47903504
Top Tier
>Eldar
>Tau
>Space Marines
>Necrons
Mid-Tier
>Chaos Daemons
>AdMech
>Imperial Guard
>Sisters of Battle
>Dark Eldar
Bottom Tier
>Tyranids
>Chaos Space Marines
>Orks
Tyranids can put up a decent fight against mid tier if they make a good list, or Flyrant spam. They will fail against top tier.
CSM will fail against everything that isn't Orks.
Orks can fail against CSM.
I didn't list the minidexes, or any armies I might've forgotten.
>>47903552
Chaos Daemons was supposed to be tier 1.5, not chaos space marines. Chaos Space Marines are at the bottom before Orks.
>>47903427
Nids arent worse than CSM. I have both, and I can say without a doubt that CSM are worse.
>>47903590
without flyrants?
>>47903563
Most of the minidexes would fall into mid-low tier solo, but fare a bit better when paired with allies (all the inquis codices working together, eldar/deldar + harlies)
>>47903504
Tiers are in no particular order and I probably forgot a few armies. All armies are considered without allies, they change things up a lot
GOD TIER
Eldar
HIGH TIER
C:SM
Tau
Daemons
Necrons
Space Wolves
Khorne Daemonkin (can be in MID or HIGH depending on the meta)
MID TIER
Dark Angels
Grey Knights
Astra Militarum
Militarum Tempestsus
Imperial Knights
Cult Mechanicus/Skitarii
LOW TIER
Tyranids
Orks
Dark Eldar
Chaos Space Marines
Blood Angels
GOD TIER can pretty much play any army and be somewhat successful. HIGH TIER has a few good lists that'll pummel MID TIER and compete with GOD TIER. MID TIER have a few lists that can compete with HIGH/GOD TIER's average lists. LOW TIER has a few lists that can compete with MID TIER's semi-competitive lists and HIGH/GOD TIER's low end lists.
>>47903504
Please never ask this question. It's guaranteed to kick off a shitstorm of multiple arguments, and every self-absorbed retard posting his version of the 'tiers'.
>>47903504
tiers are a touchy subject but here we go. eldar are on top with everything below them, blood angels are the weakest marines, and so on.
>>47903552
daemons > daemonkind >= csm.
>>47903534
>tzeentch
>best warlord traits and makes the 4 prince formation crazy
>expanded psychic powers are amazing
>relic for heralds to get all the tzeentch psychic powers, ignore first perils, get 3++
>burning chariots, exalted flamers and fateweaver
tzeentch is damn good, i wish slaanesh was as strong but oh well
>>47901582
Hi, I'm the originator of that meme :^)
I love Orks, I'm an Ork player. I've played Orks for 11 years and GW's treatment of Orks makes me laugh.
>Orks are a melee race!
>I2
>daemons have the best match-up against tau and space marines
>arguably one of the best against eldar
>routinely place well/win tournaments
>still get listed as a mid tier army even after receiving nothing but ridiculous benefits
>>47903612
Pretty much this, but BA at low tier? What?
I'd put Admech above scions, they're better in my opinion, and have more variety.
>>47903623
Yeah, I already corrected this above.
KDK can be pretty strong, but basically by running nothing but bikers and hounds. What could be more fun then running an army that has no fluff support at all and involves spamming the two best units again and again?
>>47903612
Eldar have about the same number of super powerful lists as Tau and C:SM.
Those lists are arguably more powerful, C:SM and Tau have close to as much list variety as Eldar in the top competitive play.
>>47903623
Slaanesh formations in the daemonic incursion are actually pretty damn good. The new soulstealer relic also made keepers and daemon princes of slaanesh damn near impossible to kill over time.
>>47903618
Alright, I wasn't sure if there was a way to establish tiers based off of torunament report statistics.
So, for those helping me, if I go KDK+Chaos Demons, would I be able to build decent lists that hold their own against unknown enemies?
>>47903641
>tiers are in no particular order
I think they're just meant to be in roughly the same vicinity.
>>47903612
SM are in High+, Daemons, KDK, IK, and AdMech are in Mid+, Orks and CSM are in Trash tier.
>>47903599
Why even say 'without flyrants'. Flyrants are part of the army, and theyre incredible on the table. You only need two. I run two Flyrants, two Exocrines, a Tervigon with 30 gants, some gaunts, Venomthropes and Zoanthropes.
I get it, Nids need help. But putting them in the same conversation with CSM and Orks is disingenuous.
>>47901792
Probably necrons and csm/sm of some sort. Not really sure beyond that.
>>47903432
Tiers matter most in tournament play. Sure, orks are unlikely to beat a cheese list with scat bikes, 3 wraithknights, a riptide wing and a grav star, but you can absolutely play fair casual games.
>>47903641
BA are bad because their chapter tactic is weak compared to the SM book options. Their special rules are weaker. Their Scouts are shittier. Their Termis are 25 points more expensive. And they have garbage formations.
>>47903675
>>47903612
Look up the stats. CSM have outperformed Tau in some recent tournaments.
>>47901030
Read "Rebel Winter" and there you go. That's what ya need.
>>47903664
KDK is basically the Khorne part of both CSM and Chaos Daemons in the same codex, so you don't need to ally with anyone.
My suggestion for KDK is basically use various fast, aggressive units such as spawn and hounds to pin the enemy in place. Use bikers or (if you are being nice) raptors to take points and a pair of thirsters to kill major threats.
>>47901158
The fuck is that?
>>47903729
Yeah, I've seen that graph. It's representative of absolutely nothing.
>>47903612
Wait a second, C:SM and Chaos Space Marines are not the same army?
>>47903689
because it's not that nids are better. It's just that you have one crutch unit.
That's not a better codex.
>>47903783
C:SM is Codex: Space Marines.
>>47903733
Oh, that sounds cool. I do like getting up in people's faces in games and being aggressive.
Does KDK not get improved with adding some vanilla chaos demon or CSM stuff?
>>47903794
Welp, thanks for clearing that one senpai.
>>47903509
I buy into the secret loyalists meme
I think Alphas playing the long game
>>47903795
Maybe. The reason to take them would basically be psyker Daemon Princes, so they can make themselves invisible (be'lakor). The KDK faction rules doesn't work with allies though, which is that everytime you lost a character or unit you get a blood tithe point. You can use those to buy buffs or even free bloodthirsters, so allies deprive you of your basic mechanism. Once upon a time you could take CSM drop pods, but the FAQ ruined that.
>>47903833
>it wasn't a meme the whole time
>but then it was
>BUT THEN IT WASN'T
>>47903833
This. Alpha Legion are secret loyalists, Dark Angels are secret traitors.
>>47902992
1500 ITC tourney.
>>47903794
>not just calling them vanilla like everyone else
>>47903879
I was just clarifying for him mate, it's just what some people use.
>>47900757
Yes, don't use the riptides or the broadsides. At all.
>>47900693
AV12 means you need dedicated AT weapons to penetrate it, while having just enough firepower to to be a credible threat on the table
Friendly reminder that all vehicles are trash that die from one plasmagun shot and you're terrible at the game if you use any at all.
>>47903904
Take them from the Inquisition Codex and you can turn them into S6 heavy bolters/flamers for 5 points.
>>47902841
I agree on the Emp's Shield. When would you EVER need 15 squads of guardsmen outside of apocalypse?
Emp's fist probably would be better if you could take 4 tanks minimum instead of five. But being an Armored player, I'd still want the option to take 3 of the tanks as separate squadrons.
Also, I think its "Emperor's Blade" not "Emperor's Spear" your thinking about. Your talking about the one with objective secured and "clear the area", right?
>>47903907
As a Daemon player, I agree.
>>47903907
>not using the really fragile chariots for fun lists
>not laughing when hammerheads fail to kill your open topped av 11/11/10 4 hp
it's okay anon, i hear the "no fun allowed" disease is fatal but curable
>>47903928
> When would you EVER need 15 squads of guardsmen outside of apocalypse?
When roleplaying 15 squads of guardsmen defend hive city from x-threat.
>>47903840
Alright, so I think I may go for Khorne Demonkin then, instead of my original CSM+Demon possible necron plan.
Cool.
Hey Ork players, remember Deff Rollas?
>>47903963
the things I miss more than anything ANYTHING
are my bikes getting 4+ cover saves, and Wazdakka Gutsmek
but deffrollas were a godsend as well
>>47903936
>Not using AV11 2HP Open-Topped Penitent Engines even in your serious lists
>>47902992
I'm sure some people are getting sick of these, but they haven't complained yet
>>47904011
woah, you're too hardcore for me anon but i do regularly use a burning chariot to great effect. hell it's a cornerstone of my list
>>47903928
>15 squads
infantry squads, with no transports. forcing 5 infantry squads into the platoon is so dumb, people take platoons so they can include heavy weapon squads and special weapons squads, and if they want tons of bodies conscripts.
I have never hear people taking 5 basic infantry squads in a platoon.
>Your talking about the one with objective secured and "clear the area", right?
yep, I new it was Emperor's an some wort of weapon.
The requirements seems pretty close to what to take for troops and HQ, with a hell hound and those don't suck.
You still get Obsec, then get a bonus for clearing out objectives you want to secure.
>>47903963
>>47903988
I miss the Cybork BodyThough I did win a game once with the new one
>>47904035
>>47904054
15k point Apocalypse, Orks vs Steel Legion and Black Templars
>>47903936
>inflict special hammer of wrath with the blades that are BEHIND, the chariot and will never touch the target.
If ever do start my slaanesh army and get one of these, I'm kit bashing it to face the other way. I don't care how hard that would be.
>>47904035
>>47904054
looks awesome, good job anon
>>47904066
>>47904076
where are all the boyz?
>>47904092
They flooded in turn 3, but I wasn't being as diligent with my phone at that point
>>47903653
If we're talking about competitive play, Tau consistently under perform. Tau aren't great at playing the objective game and are only really good at killing models.
Rules question about drop pods. What am I supposed to do with the doors? Do I open them once I've landed, do they block movement, if one is of the edge when I land, do I mishap, can I measure embark distance from them? Can I just keep them closed?
>>47904066
>tfw 15k apoc you could field 2000 boyz easily with nobz and ghazzy leading them into glory
>>47904045
Literal physical pain
Why cant GW leave the little good we have before ripping out the only competitive stuff orks have?
>>47904113
The doors are part of the hull, so all of the above.
>>47904112
What the heck are all of those jumpy suits for then? Moving 6+2d6 inches a turn on a cheap tough platform isn't good enough anymore?
Seriously, taking crisis suits naked is better at melee than some dedicated melee units and cap points like champs.
>>47904068
you're a madman anon, that kit is an absolute nightmare and you plan to convert it? godspeed. also it's built like that because it's a tractor and i don't mean like how leman russes are in the meme
>>47904135
I shot 6k points worth of models at him in one shooting phase and he didn't go down
>>47903612
The Empire has quite the number of sub-factions, eh? Space Marines, Astra Militarum, Cult Mechanicus, Blood Axes, Inquisition, Rogue Trades, etc.
And people say that they are not the face of the setting.
>>47903963
>>47903988
>>47904045
>>47904137
Just remember those fucks TRIED to take our looted wagons away too, but there was so much backlash they relented
I was seriously going to drive to the GW headquarters and throw a brick through the window if they did me that final insult
>>47904153
I know it's intended to be like a tractor, but it doesn't have a ride over attack, it has a crash into them attack. So it's becoming combine harvester.
several years from now when I get around to starting third army. But the conversion idea was to build it as is, but leave out the seekers. Then put some spawn pushing those same harnesses, or at least couple of them.
>>47904038
The problem with Emperor's Blade is that the vehicles aren't obsec, which is a big disadvantage over a CAD.
Personally, I just use Emperor's Wrath - I love artillery and making my Manticore the hate machine it truly should be feels fantastic.
>>47900489
Roll a shitload of 5's, works every time.
>>47903907
Can we stop trying to force this ebin maymay? There's nothing wrong with vehicles. Monstrous Creatures are the only unit type that's broken across the board.
Going up against the dreaded WarConvo. Unfortunately, this opponent just didn't really know his army or how to play it, so I managed to control the game with ease.
