Why did Uriah Olthaire didn't follow the emperor once he revealed himself. Was it because he saw in the emperor the inability to realize the imperfectness of man and thus it's need for faith? was it because he was just plain stubborn.
I have visited The Last Church, stuck one in my girlfriend while her mother took the tour. It's a placed named Lindesfarne. She's my wife now.
>>47752701
Because he knew that the Emperor was not a god.
Because he thought of the Emperor as just another warlord, who just happened to be a strong psyker.
The Emperor had a concrete plan on how to save humanity, albeit risky. But being the superhuman he is, it was impossible to rationally explain this to the priest.
>>47752701
Because the Emperor BTFO of him.
>>47752701
Because Big E's giant fedora kept knocking him out.
>>47752701
He wanted no part in what's to come. The Emperor was building his empire on a lie that is no different than false religions he is abloishing.
>>47752701
what a fucking overrated story
made the Emperor look like a 15 year old fedora atheist instead of an immortal being with millennia of experience, christ at least try to come up with some better anti religion argument than "muh crusades" 5 minutes before he launches his own crusade that kills more people than all the wars about religion combined
>>47754574
I couldn't agree more. Then again, these books aren't exactly philosophical treatises wrapped in prose.
I enjoyed the story and for that reason it was that much more disappointing.
>>47754574
The crusades were launched out of greed and mindless zealotry. It was these crusades that awakened Khorne. Many of Khorne's daemons were born from the senseless bloodshed done in the name of Christ. So in 40K universe, you can thank religion (the Xitans mostly) for emergance of one of the Chaos powers, the greatest among them.
The Great Crusade wasn't about greed. It wasn't about zeal. It was launced to unite mankind and save it from extinction. It accomplished that and drove back the tyranny of the Xenos and the treachery of the daemonic.
They are not comprable.
>>47754622
>The crusades were launched out of greed and mindless zealotry. It was these crusades that awakened Khorne.
No, Khorne's awakening caused increased bloodshed, not the other way around.
>>47754622
>The Great Crusade wasn't about greed. It wasn't about zeal. It was launced to unite mankind and save it from extinction. It accomplished that and drove back the tyranny of the Xenos and the treachery of the daemonic.
>I'm doing what I'm doing for a good reason unlike those other guys
yeah I'm sure no religious leader in history has ever said that to himself
Another question, not from op.
If Uriah agreed to follow the emperor seeing him as a god, would it change anything really?
>>47754622
>crusaders
>not Alexander
>not Roman Empire
>not Genghis Khan
>not Attilla
>>47754635
It's like saying the awakening of Slaanesh caused the denegrancy of Eldar empire.
It's the egg and the chicken condurum.
>>47754662
>It's the egg and the chicken condurum.
It's not. People being violent is normal.
Khorne awakens due to the accumulated violence and causes ultra violence to happen.
>>47754643
>not ww2
>This story takes place in the impious ages of Old Earth, in a land known as Gawl, also called the Franckish Empire. A princely holy man of the Steel Era that followed the Bronze and Iron Epochs believed himself able to hear the words of his faceless deity. To reflect his self-proclaimed purity, he takes the name Innocent, and then he takes his followers to war.
>Lord Innocent calls a crusade to eradicate a heretical sect, which our fragmented histories refer to as the Karthur. He demands they be burned for their sins against the imaginary god. But these holy warriors – these knights – clad in primitive armour and wielding swords of steel, are the princes and lords of their realm. To them, the virtues of nobility and honour matter above all. The people of their empire look to them for justice, and theirs are the blades that defend the virtuous weak from the evil strong.
>Until their overlord, Innocent, blesses them. He declares their actions to be sacred deeds done in the name of the god they believe to be real. Any crimes they commit in this war will be ignored. Any sins shall be forgiven.
>Siegecraft in this bygone age is fought with catapults of metal and wood that hurl boulders of stone. City walls are brought down by these primitive machines, crewed by peasants and mathematicians alike, and once the walls fall the foot soldiers march in, led by their lords and princes.
>Albajensia, the fortress of the Karthur heretics, falls at dawn. The sword-bearing knights lead their holy warriors into the city, and with all their sins forgiven even before they are committed, the crusaders show no mercy. The heretics numbered no more than a few hundred, yet the whole city burns. Men, women, children...all butchered on the knights’ blessed blades.
But what of the blameless masses? What of the children who know nothing of their parents’ heresy? What of the thousands of loyal, devout souls who have broken no laws, and do not deserve death?
>>47754737
>‘Kill them all,’ says Innocent, the primitive Warmaster of his age. ‘Kill them all. Our God will know who is loyal.’ He condemns thousands to death, not because they are guilty, but because he believes a mythological paradise awaits those unjustly murdered by his men.
>And thus, the city burns. An innocent population is wiped from the face of the world by the blades that should have defended them.
>Like every emotion and deed, this slaughter is reflected in the Sea of Souls. The hate, the fear, the rage and bitter sense of betrayal – all of it curdles behind the veil. Few things feed the warp as sweetly as war, and few wars hold the same rancid symbolism as those declared by the strong against the weak they are sworn to protect.
>Such slaughter gives birth to daemons within the empyrean. Countless mewling terrors born from individual moments of suffering and bloodlust. Above them, more powerful entities also swirl into existence: one born from a blaze, deliberately started, that claims a dozen lives at once; another arising from a mother’s abject horror at seeing her children spitted upon the lances of those she’d believed to be her noble and holy protectors. These acts, and thousands more like them, breed the Neverborn in the hell beyond reality’s veil.
>Sometimes, as with this crusade of Albajensia, a daemon is born that rises above its siblings, one that encapsulates all the miserable complexity, cruelty and blood-soaked shame of the genocide. Imagine that creature, born of this sublime betrayal. Imagine a spirit of war given life when a warrior caste turns its blades upon its own people, acting upon the words of a tyrant, in the name of a lie.
>>47754756
>Its skin is the bleeding red charcoal of scorched flesh, like the families who burned in their homes. Its armour is a fire-blackened mockery of the mailed knights whose treachery gave it birth. It carries a sword, just as those butchering knights carried swords, though its blade is graven with runic curses heralding the War God’s glory.
>The crimson and orange light that burns behind its eyes is the fire that lit the horizon as the doomed city blazed. When it opens its maw, each of its exhaled breaths is the echo of ten thousand dying screams.
>It calls itself the Ragged Knight.
>>47754771
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade
Freaking Bible thumbers going all out creating daemons and their daemonic god.
>>47754789
What. Why Khorne was created by a crusade and started manifesting in 29 millenium, when Second World War was far worse and had many more casaulties.
>>47754637
wrong crusade
>>47754789
cathars had it coming
>>47754815
>Why Khorne was created by a crusade and started manifesting in 29 millenium
He wasn't.
>>47754815
Actually, one of the Pious's memories has him fighting in WW1 against the Germans. While he was fighting the Krauts, one of them who was overtaken by rage shouts "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" in German.
>>47754824
t.Khorne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_B%C3%A9ziers
After having an example of how religious violence empowers Chaos greatly, I hope you guys finally understand why the Emperor outlawed religion.
>>47754883
>outlawed religion
did he?
>>47754891
Yes.
>>47754901
>God Emperor
>>47754622
Bloodshed by any other name is still bloodshed
>>47754905
That was after his entombment in the Golden Throne.
While he was running around, the punishment for worshipping him or embracing any religon were servere. Ask Lorgar.
>>47754913
Bloodshed in the name of religion is the worst of all as it resonates the most in the Warp.
Aren't you horrifed from all the daemons are being created by ISIS daily?
>>47754905
He never wanted that, he only became openly worshipped after he was dead and couldn't stop it.
>>47754935
>A legion of daemons with ski masks, nuggets, and surplus military equipment
I can dig it
>>47754839
oh damn that's cool. Could you tell me something more where i can read about him?
>>47754622
>my genocide is more justified that your genocide!
The Last Church isn't a great story, really, but it gets the point across. The Emperor is an arrogant hypocrite. He embodies not just the best in mankind - its ability to innovate, its tenacity, etc - but its worst failings - ignorance, xenophobia, hubris, etc. Uriah could see that the Emperor was too caught up in his own sense of personal destiny to be anything but a walking catastrophe in the long term.
Everything the Emperor accuses Uriah's faith of is repeated by him later. Even the way he burns the church with Uriah inside is reminiscent of the burning of heretics. The Emperor professed that there should be no gods, but he walked around in golden armour shaped like a goddamn cathedral, with a huge glowing halo over his head.
>>47753094
>plebs dont know that while emps was around, he forbade his own worship.
>>47754622
>The Great Crusade wasn't about greed. It wasn't about zeal. It was launced to unite mankind and save it from extinction.
Yes. I'm sure that the emperor is the only person in history to claim that his war and genocide was justified and that all others were wrong
>It accomplished that and drove back the tyranny of the Xenos and the treachery of the daemonic.
Oh did it? Dod the horus heresy not happen? Is the imperium not assualted on all sides by xenos, heretics and daemons at the close of the 41st millennium?
>>47755168
Well the difference here was that he was the Emperor. He knew his shit. And he gambled everything on weakening Chaos before they could fuck up his plans. If it weren't for Erebus and Kor Phareon corrupting Lorgar, he would succeed.
>>47755285
But he didn't succeed. And in no small part because of his own choices. Everything went to shit because he couldn't be bothered to stop the webway project for just a short little while and go and deal with the horus heresy as it began.
Not to mention how he could have averted everything if he had been a better dad. Or not be such a fedora and let Lorgar keep worshipping as long as he wasn't hurting anyone.
But no. The emperor fucked up immensely, and all because he was sure that he was the smartest and always right. Which is exactly what the last church conveys.
Ulthaire Didn't follow the old emps because he knows that the emps forgot what it means to be human, Mr E always thought that humanity was destined to perfection and thus it's only obstacle was the primitive superstition that the humans practice, However Mr E forgets that men isn't like the emperor, They aren't beings that are as superior as Mr E. The Emperor forgot the defining feature of man, It's Imperfection.
Olathaire came to understand that the Emperor simply could not comprehend the human need for faith, for He had never encountered a question He could not answer. Bereft of the need for the reassurances only faith could bring to mortal men and women, the Emperor found it a wasteful and extremely dangerous distraction, and Uriah Olathaire was at a loss as how to explain the comfort it brought to mere human beings. Understanding that he could never follow such a being, Uriah Olathaire bade the Emperor the best, but warned him that His subjects might come to see Him as a God if He deprived them of religion. The Emperor nodded and simply left, before His Thunder Warrior escort opened fire on the church with flame lances, razing both the building and its last inhabitant from the face of Terra."
>>47754815
also, wasn't it theorized that khorne already manisfested way before the dawn of humanity?
>>47754622
good intentions matters not, it's the good deeds that counts. - Tolkien (i think)
>>47756916
Well, afaik the Realm of Souls turned into the hellish shitscape we all know and love thanks to the Old Ones and Necrontyr(?) duking it out, it would only make sense. Especially seeing that violence is a pretty primal thing.
>>47755285
>He knew his shit.
He really didn't.
Chaos feeds on feels. His Fedora Crusade didn't weaken them in the slightest. Quite the opposite in fact as fanatical atheism is still fanatical.
>>47755285
>The difference here is that he was Joseph Stalin. He knew his shit. And he gambled everything on weakening Bourgeois Capitalism before they could fuck up his plans. If it weren't for McDonalds and Counterrevolutionaries corrupting the Soviet, he would succeed.
>>47756916
>also, wasn't it theorized that khorne already manisfested way before the dawn of humanity?
Technically, Chaos treats causality as a gentle suggestion and not an actual rule. The Big Four have always existed, have never existed, and are yet to exist, all at once.
>>47756882
>need
I always find it odd that people make this claim.
Humans don't 'need' a god or god substitute, claiming they do is just dishonest. And frankly insulting to anybody who has no use for nonsense like that.
>>47755285
The whole of 40k as a setting hinges upon the Emperor acting like a blubbering idiot during all of his lifetime so that things can get that bad on the first place, so no, he didn't know his shit
>>47754905
aka heresy
>He looked at the pages again. Here was the truth of it, the crucial mark of difference between his breed of man and the local variety. They were heathens. They continued to embrace the superstitions that the fundamental strand of mankind had set aside. Here was the promise of an afterlife, and an ethereal world. Here was the nonsense of a faith in the intangible.
>Karkasy knew that there were some, many perhaps, amongst the population of the compliant Imperium, who longed for a return to those ways. God, in every incarnation and pantheon, was long perished, but still men hankered after the ineffable. Despite prosecution, new credos and budding religions were sprouting up amongst the cultures of Unified Man. Most vigorous of all was the Imperial Creed that insisted humanity adopt the Emperor as a divine being. A God-Emperor of Mankind.
>The idea was ludicrous and, officially, heretical. The Emperor had always refused such adoration in the most stringent terms, denying his apotheosis. Some said it would only happen after his death, and as he was functionally immortal, that tended to cap the argument. Whatever his powers, whatever his capacity, whatever his magnificence as the finest and most gloriously total leader of the species, he was still just a man. The Emperor liked to remind mankind of this whenever he could. It was an edict that rattled around the bureaucracies of the expanding Imperium. The Emperor is the Emperor, and he is great and everlasting.
>But he is not a god, and he refuses any worship offered to him.
>>47754622
>implying a few thousand dead humans would be enough to influence a god in one way or another
I hate this human-centric BS.
>>47756018
>Everything went to shit because he couldn't be bothered to stop the webway project for just a short little while and go and deal with the horus heresy as it began.
He had to seat himself on the Golden Throne since Fagnus opened a portal to hell in the heart of the Imperial Palace, otherwise he would have certainly traveled out to deal with Horus, Fulgrim, Morty and the rest himself.
