Could a setting where everything is Earth-sized except for a race of 40 foot tall elves produce enough food to feed the 40 foot tall elves without starving everything else on the planet, or would you necessarily need megaflora/fauna to support them?
>>47681253
You certainly need to magnify the scale at wich we function, wich means higher quantities of oxigen and food.
So yes, Megafauna and flora are AN answer, but maybe you would have to add things like low birth rate and populations, being secluded to places with a certain athmospheric pressure and such.
[/spoiler] Mirage a Cute
In a high fantasy world, not necessarily.
Maybe the giant race are quasi-elemental or innately magical, not requiring sustenance in the traditional way.
>>47681253
Depends on the population size and metabolisms of the giants. I presume scarcity of resources would lead to pretty small populations requiring large territories. Of course, something fairly fantastic is probably going on to have land mammals of such scale (just look at the resource problems creatures like elephants or tigers have, and they're a fraction the size), so you can probably hand-wave anything you like.
They are just very, very rare.
But why elves? Oh, I know.Posting in a fetish thread
>>47681406
Actually Zentradi, because macross pinned humans vs space green giants with pointy ears, and the mix gave space elves or close to it ... you know ... because.
>>47681490
Fetish thread, as I said.
>>47681253
The giant elves would probably be few in numbers so yeah
>>47681490
Now the actual question I have for macross is How do they maintain an atmosphere that can sustain both the giant zentradi and the much smaller humans in the same place without any of them having health problems.
>>47681536
Zentradi probably have very efficient repiratory systems, similar to a dinosaur, or a cassowary
>>47681566
The atmosphere on Earth was very different when Dinosaurs still existed. It was significantly more oxygen rich, which is why so many ancient creatures seem impossibly huge compared to what we have today.
>>47681536
Most Zentradi were shrunk down to human size because they didn't have enough resources to feed a race of giants after Earth got glassed, but the ones that stayed huge are shown having no problems breathing our atmosphere.
So, really good lungs, I guess?
>>47681630
Well, they are a genetically engineered warrior people created by the setting's hyper-advanced precursor race. Designing them to be able to handle low oxygen volume relative to their size just seems logical.
>>47681668
Actually, thinking back to the original series, Vreetai tanked explosive decompression a couple of times. May or may not have involved a fistfight on the hull of his ship.
>>47681715
Yeah, the Zentraedi are pretty fucking tough.
>>47681536
The Zentradi were engineered organisms to act as mass produced soldiers by the now extinct Protoculture. Their biology is pretty damn impressive.
We have never seen a Zentradi die of old age. So far as we know, they live until someone shoots them.
Even when shrunk down into much weaker human sized bodies, a Zentradi is still strong enough to rip a car door clean off and tough enough to treat getting slammed by large metal objects as flesh wounds.
In the original series, we saw one of the Zentradi commanders get flung out into space during a battle, without a suit. He held his breath, walked along the surface fo the ship the the nearest airlock, and then made his way back to the battle inside of the ship and beat the shit out of some robots with his bare hands.
Especially given that last example, I think it is safe to say that surviving in a low oxygen environment isn't out of the question for them.
>>47681920
I can't wait for one of those Windemeren shits to try and infiltrate Ragna so that Cap Earnest can punch that fucker through a wall.
>>47681253
>Could a setting where everything is Earth-sized except for a race of 40 foot tall elves produce enough food to feed the 40 foot tall elves without starving everything else on the planet
if they eat nothing but semen, maybe
>>47681253
In the context of Macross, I don't think its an issue.
The Zentradi lived for millions of years eating whatever mass produced meal rations it is that the factory sats crank out. So, if nothing else, the same logistical netowrk that fueled their battle groups can easily feed them, and lots of Zentradi spend their time micronized now, so they should have a surplus.
>>47681253
6 times as tall as a human means requiring 6^2 times as much energy, which is 36 times as much food.
A city that can support 3.600.000 people can support 100.000 giant elves.
But they also produce much more heat and can't work as much in a day an they'd be contantly eating to get it all digested in a reasonable timeframe, so let's say half as much.
How many elves did you want there to be on this planet?
>>47682389
It's a real shame they're such cunts. Their VFs are pure sex.
>>47682599
Reminds me of that a certain fetish artist actually did his research and made his giant elves sleep 20 hours a day to save energy. Not that that didn't stop them from being ludicrously huge, and other general unrelatisticness, but it wasn't exactly what you'd call a serious setting anyway.
>>47681611
I am aware, but dinosaurs where outrageously huge even by the high level of oxygen on the atmosphere when they were alive. Dinosaurs had extremely high surface area for gas exchange as their respiratory system extended into hollow potions of their bones. You can still that adaptation in the giant cassowary which has hollows in its ribs that connect to it s lungs.
>>47682599
Enough so they're not incredibly inbred, so a couple thousand?
>>47682599
Its possible these giant elves have evolved more efficient solutions to these biological problems than humans have.
>>47682389
>punch that fucker through a wall.
I want to see him judo-throw someone through the floor. Just pure destroy the cunt.
>>47683185
Pile driver onto the flight deck.
>>47683185
"And this is how you perform a nonlethal takedown!"
*SPLAT*
"DECULTURE! Wow. ...In my defense, if he was a Zentradi he would have survived that."
>>47682347
>>The Zentradi were engineered organisms to act as mass produced soldiers by the now extinct Protoculture. Their biology is pretty damn impressive.
Doing this to a half Zentradi infant is considered relatively safe. They have fucking crazy genetics for their skeletal system to allow them to not collapse on themselves when in giant form.
>>47682389
>>I can't wait for one of those Windemeren shits to try and infiltrate Ragna so that Cap Earnest can punch that fucker through a wall.
I'm pretty sure any fight with a 7'4 full blooded Zentradi commander that doesn't start with you nailing him in the head with a burst from a high powered rifle is gonna be a fight where the other guy gets smeared all over the walls.
Sure, just make them magical or cybernetic in that way that they don't need to eat or breath. They could be fully powered by magic or electricity.
Use all the resources you would have put into training and equipping an army into hiring giant elves for your warfights, since humans would have no fucking chance against them.
Then sell them food. Or, just trade food for protection...?
I'm not an economist.
Fighting off a dragon has to be worth a couple of cows.
>>47685391
The dragon actually belongs to the army. They're fighting off a giantess incursion. Who's a good dragon? Who's a good dragon? You are! You are!
>>47685417
Dragon: AAAAAAAAA! GETITOFFME!
Giant: Back away or I snap it's neck!
Speaking as someone with a setting with forty foot tall elves, the answer is 'yes, but you don't get a lot of them.' so basically what >>47682599 said. Except I tend to assume a few hundred as my multiple instead of 36.
>>47682948
similar here, the fact they were engineered by one of the older species more or less as a combination of art project and exotic-morph vacation retreat is the only reason they're able to exist.
>>47681536
>>47681566
>>47681611
It's shown right in the first series that Zentraedi can survive the vacuum of space(for only a short time, presumably)
>>47685808
Eyy it's Legacy-verse guy.
I just checked the DA group and nothing is going on.
Is porject kill?
>>47685391
>>47685417
>>47685634
>implying the dragon isn't her pet, and that a military regiment happened upon them playing.
He's just a big puppy dog, and she's just a big girl playing with the family pet.
>>47685971
Hey! Nothing on the dA group lately. I'm still working on it, things are just sorta...slow, for a variety of mostly personal reasons. (Medical and musical-lodging, chiefly.)
I also just don't update much on the dA for various reasons. I'm hoping to work out some sort of setting book for it soon, but I tend to trip up on how to start, what information is relevant, etc etc.
Hell, if anyone has a good example of format for a sci-fant setting book, or advice on such in general, I'd be intrigued.
>>47686081
Like a show/game bible?
Mayhaps look at the Fallout Bible? It's not a sort of 'guide-to-the-universe' deal, just chronicles the developer's thoughts and ideas.
Also, I'd say just mark out a basic timeline, fill up that time line with short stories and stuff and before you know it: pow! Universe made!
>>47686115
Something like that yeah, though more akin to an actual playable setting book. been looking at EP's sunward/rimward for inspiration a bit.
I do want to attach a game system to it eventually and see what happens.
Some of the various whatnot I've been poking at:
Rough outline of how a starystem entry might go:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CwiXqCuOlOlcdVi1RTyuM9GDo91qwshc1o7_cCr7SO8/edit#heading=h.novde3kga2la
Half-assed notes we poke at from time to time, including the mentioned timeline:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VHyKDxfJPk-8Q8N_3TJoPlQm9dhf0Y7WDcN5Ry4gZ38/edit#
>>47686190
I'd say figure out your 'meta-narrative': that is, the overarching history and 'plot'. Then, have your information in all of your entries be separated in two: the fluffy info; the info about the stuff itself, and the plot-related info; info of what this thing's place in the universe(and its narrative) is.
Also, I want to practice writing. Got any ideas? I'd be happy to be a part-time contributor.
>>47686266 here
if you want some more technical info about space I find that this website is indispensable.
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/
Even if you aren't going fora scientifically accurate story, this helps give you a good idea of space travel and all the problems and situations that come with it.
Also, are there giant robots? Because giant robots are cool.
>>47686266
Not immediately, but my email is there, and we run an ongoing group chat (even if it's been a little inactive lately) on skype, if you want to throw a line at [email protected]
Also have a chatroom on the dA http://chat.deviantart.com/chat/legacyChat
if you (or anyone else) wants to drop in, I'll likely be idling around it for a few hours.
While I have a good idea of the overarching history of the setting, I'm not a particularly huge fan of the concept of a 'meta-plot' for a setting, at least in the way I often see it used.
>>47686459
I'm actually familiar with the linked site. XD I used it for their page on space weapons rather extensively.
There are, but they're fairly specialized. There's a whole host of reasons giant robots don't work super well on the modern/future battlefield, and i try to stick with them. With similar issues plaguing the giant aliens, for that matter.
>>47681715
That you Roboute?
>>47685808
>>47682948
>>47682599
One thing with the calculation; although square-cube law does apply, there is a number of reasons for why larger size becomes a selective advantage. Obviously, evolving a larger size reduces the danger of predation and also improves the organisms ability to withstand colder climates (particularly for homeothermic species). But larger animals also have more efficient digestive systems than smaller animals (regardless of the presence of hindguts in certain herbivores) because foodstuffs remain in their intestines for a longer amount of time. So the amount of food intake necessary to support such a large creature, if it could exist, would decrease slightly.
>>47681536
Zentradi are physically significantly stronger and more resilient than humans, even while micloned, particularly their leader clones. While macloned Zentradi are able to survive in a vacuum for a limited amount of time and punch giant robots made out of super-space tech with little personal harm.
Even Micloned, dropping a Zentradi baby on its head is apparently not a problem.
Pic related.
>>47681611
Actually, that's not true. Recent tests have proven that the atmosphere on Earth 65 million years ago was not nearly as different from today as was previously believed.
The reason that Dinosaurs were able to get so insanely huge is because they were avians before avians were birds. The Avian respiratory system is far more efficient than the mammalian one. Birds even today have several air sacks connected to their lungs throughout their body. These air sacks actually serve as secondary pseudo-lungs allowing birds to absorb far more oxygen from each breath than mammals do.
The reason birds got smaller is because, after the KT Extinction event, the surviving species were those who had adapted the ability to fly, and being huge is actually a liability for a flighted bird, however their ultra-efficient respiration system remained and was needed because flight is an extremely physically demanding activity and the extra oxygen is needed.
>>47686557
So what you're saying is baby football is a go?
Are 23 foot tall elves viable?
thinking about a fairly (or somewhat, if too much shit gets in the way) realistic story/setting and want to add a giant race cuz reasons.
>>47686644
Really depends on what you mean by 'viable.'
They wouldn't take up an overly huge amount of resources, depending, and be more workable in other ways than a larger species.
if out and out 'realism' it's incredibly hard to justify giants more than like ten feet tall though.
Details on setting/reasons? For that matter.
>>47681253
What's OP up to with the information? Mostly curious about how/why other people fit this junk into their settings.
>>47686644
Define viable.
>>47683185
>>47683756
There VFs do seem to be based on dragons.
On the topic of VFs they have to be my favorite mecha and I am not even the biggest Macross fan
>>47686700
>Mostly curious about how/why other people fit this junk into their settings.
Cause it's neat
>>47686626
Just don't challenge one to a rock concert.
>>47686644
>Are 23 foot tall elves viable?
Viable? Maybe. The genus Megatherum was a ~20ft tall, nearly 9,000 pound ground sloth that only went extinct ~10,000 years BP. It's possible that it could walk on its hind legs (probably using its tail like a tripod)
>>47686772
>Incredible lazy, low-energy giant elves
This has to be somebody's fetish.
>>47686772
Bitches can't rock. They don't got the finger strength and inner fire required.
>>47686746
Good a reason as any, really.
>>47686266
Thinking more about story ideas. One I'd had but never got around to was a mixed planetary army putting a guide-Alaerin in charge of breaking in new recruits.
>>47686700
>>47686703
Should have been more specific.
Thinking about some elves from snowy/tundra areas
World's like a fantasy setting that just got it's magic source severly damaged/closed so only the most magical critters,these giants included, still have a small access to it (muh free ticked for unrealistic bullshit).
Didn't want to stretch it but if they need some magic juice to keep up with humans then so be it.
>>47686811
>Macross
>inner fire required
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAc9X-F_j9UYes, I will find any excuse to post this.
>>47681253
not reading thread but... a race of human sized humans couldn't exist on an earth sized earth without stripping the land
>>47686893
Sounds like it'd totally work then, yeah. A little magic would help explain them, and at like 23ft or so, it wouldn't even have to be *too* much, all things considered.
>>47686939
That or a precursor race with making them for <reasons,> like with the Zentradi and that one guy's construction elves.
>>47687172
Am that one guy, and yeah. They do just need a liiittle push in a more realistic setting to get past the SoD sensors.
>>47686895
>Pisses herself for half the video than has to be saved by a mute who rocks harder than her
Yeahokay.
>>47687200
No one says you can't do gene editing with magic, it's just harder.
Because there aren't any monitors.
>>47686936
Well they could. They'd just have to not be stupid and enact eugenics and population control along with ecofriendly practices. In fact is perfectly reasonable with technology we had 400 years ago and easier today as such.
>>47687229
I'm not...sure what this is in reference too. All I'm saying is you need a half decent level of bullshit in an otherwise realistic setting, whatever your chosen flavor of phlebotinum is.
>>47687172
Other guy's lurking thread got a laugh at this. Wouldn't be surprised if we call Alaerin 'construction elves' in all conversation for a few weeks now.
>>47687288
Oh, thought you were implying you needed a science solution instead of a magic one.
>>47681253
As long as we get transforming fighter planes to fight them
>>47687309
Fair enough! And definitely not. You do whatever fits the setting and sounds good.
>>47681536
>asking logical questions about Macross
Clearly, you aren't LISTENING TO HIS SONG
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYHGDEl-zIc
I'm off to bed, so if guy who was interested in contributing sometimes >>47686266 or guy who recognized me before him, (if not the same anon) >>47685971 want to get ahold of me about writing stuff/updates/whatever, contact info was in this doc.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VHyKDxfJPk-8Q8N_3TJoPlQm9dhf0Y7WDcN5Ry4gZ38/edit#
>>47687357
Really, 7 went full on bullshit ... but it doesn't make it less awesome.
>>47687723
good night senpai
thanks for the contact info. Ill brainstorm some stuff.
>>47681253
they could photosynthesize. or they could just subsist on the jizz of all the normal sized dudes like you actually want.
>>47687787
knock it off with them negative waves, man
>>47687787
Well it IS strong in life force. Literally 100million souls worth per go.
>>47687787
Wouldn't it make more sense for most of the normal-sized ladies to also be given penises, so that they could feed the giants too? Such outlandish prospects as photosynthesis are not really needed here, I think.
>>47681253
Ok lets see. Energy consumption would grow cubically to linear size, so it would be (40/5.5)^3~=385 times the chow.
Some ballpark estimations for max population are about 10 billion humies, so dividing that you'd have max pop of about 26 millions of gigaelves on a planet. Adjust up for whatever sci-fi super agriculture you imagine.
>or would you necessarily need megaflora/fauna to support them?
Those won't really help or change anything. Baseline energy input is still solar energy absorbed by plants and incoming energy doesn't change if it's one gigaleaf vs a thousand regular leaves on a tree.
Sure they would be a nice stand-in for cows, but we also do farm comparatively tiny things which we then eat en-masse.
>>47681253
I'd say that megaflora/fauna, while not necessary, would make them feel less unrealistic, "realistically" you probably could with the right infrastructure and small enough population size, but I'd just handwave it with super efficient physiology/agriculture.
Making it realistic should be a secondary concern to how believable it is with everything else in the setting
>>47686595
Then how were giant insects viable?
>>47688748
An anon up thread had the right calculation when he scaled by square. GURPS Bio Tech goes into this.
Basically, mass goes up as the cube of linear sir, as you say. However, caloric consumption rises with the square of linear size because however you burn them, those calories all have to be radiated. So you usually have bigger meals but eaten less frequently.
The thing to note with giant races is that they have to be one of these three:
Squat
Super Heavy (dense bones and really tough muscle)
Super Light (light tissues and light-strong bones)
Super light is the hardest to do because it's very hard to made things light weight if they're big because water is a thing.
Squat is the easiest but doesn't work for elves in terms of their proportions.
So to make your elves work they're going to have to be made of very rigid dense materials and will sink into the ground a short way in most places.
>>47689646
At the time when giant insects were a significant part of the biosphere (around the Cambrian, circa 500 million years ago) the atmosphere was much more oxygen-dense, meaning that insects could support larger bodymass through spiracle respiration.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiracle
Flip it, reverse it. Make it so that instead of the Aliums being Giants, make it so that Humans are the small ones. Just blame a our heavier gravity planet and done.
I always smirked at the trope, but really, I don't need the other board any more.
My favorite anime is part of the discussion, lot's of educated people answering questions and contributing, and all still /tg/ related with minimal to none shitposting. You guys really make me happy.
>>47690334
> and all still /tg/ related with minimal to none shitposting.
You're right, we're not doing this right at all, I'll fix it.
SHERYL IS A SKANK SLUT, RANKA IS BEST GIRLNow it's a real Macross thread.
>>47690367
good job anon, I'm proud of you
I was under the impression that a real physical limit to size is material bone density. The surface area of a bone goes with the square of the size of the creature but the weight (force) on it goes as the cube.
It becomes less of a problem if you have some external force like buoyancy to help, which is why some sea creatures are absolutely enormous.
>>47690367
But it's not a shitpost if it's true.
>>47690706
So its still a shitpost?
There will not be many problems, as long as the elves can eat leaves/bushes/tall grasses. These elves can be compared to the largest herbivorous dinosaurs. There was not any megaflora in the late jurrasic/cretaceous but large herbivorous dinosaurs still managed to support a large population on normal-sized plants. If elven diets are comparable to human diets, e.g bread, carrots, fruit and elves can not eat leave/tall grasses/ bushes megafauna/flora or a very small elven population are required. Essentially, it depends on whether elves can eat things we can not.
>>47682721
I'm assuming you refer to Frakass, since there aren't really that many fetish artists that do giant elves that I can think. Based on the stuff said in this thread, his giant elves are actually surprisingly "realistic" (in the sense that they take into account a lot of the stuff mentioned here; they were still way too huge to function in real life, as are most fantasy giants really). They spend most of their time sleeping to conserve energy, and significant amount of their diet it made up of commonly available plant material. Despite doing vore, the giant elves are mentioned to very rarely attempt eating humans, because humans are just too small to bother wasting energy to catch them.
Considering the same setting is populated by stuff like vore-elves that can eat almost anything, that's really a lot more though than I'd expect put into making the giants' ecology make a semblance of sense.
I wish he'd have done more stuff with the giant elves, rather than just the vore-elves. They were somewhat less ridiculous, and the basic concept of the fire elves was actually pretty neat (they're artificially created species of giants that's friendly to humans, and consider it their duty to hunt dangerous monsters that would threaten humans).
>>47690780
So they're going to need gizzards or something and kids can have fun lighting their 80lb shit piles on fire?
>>47681355
So perhaps the center of a hollow earth?!
ALL IS REVEALED!
>>47691469
I was thinking a secluded valley somewhere, but that could work.
Interesting side question: how does being that large impact your technological development?
Think about it. In order for you to make a fire to keep warm at that size, the fire would have to be HUGE. This makes keeping a constantly going fire at a camp or whatever much more difficult, as you are going to exhaust local burnable fuel sources faster than humans.
How do you build a shelter for something that large? Or, for that matter, tools? It feels like hand tools might still be doable, by would basically use up a whole tree just to make one. Anything like a spear, which requires a single piece longer than any available nearby tree, becomes impossible to make.
And I have trouble imagining them making any kind of boat larger than a single person canoe type deal.
If they already have Zentradi-like infrastructure and technology that is one thing, but it feels like their size would make any kind of 'natural' version of them seriously hampered in regards to trying to develop technology in the first place. Their size make a lot of readily available resources too small to matter at their scale.
>>47691749
It's why I rather liked Forest Giants in D&D.
They solved this (Mind you, in a bit of a cop out way) with 'Druidism is very common in their culture and they use it to help the forest support them/produce things large enough for them'
So a forest inhabited with Forest Giants is a massive, primal forest with giant trees and incredible vibrancy.
>>47691749
Well shit like california redwoods exist and the bigger you are the better you deal with the cold also squared. You might not NEED a fire. Ever.
Only issue would be a supply of california redwood lasting. We actually cut that shit for a century till we realized we had to stop so it might make them think carefully.
Mining is gone wholesale. There's not enough wood to make supportive braces for a singular one at their size and the amount of ore needed would be so minimal it wouldn't be worth it. Beyond that metallurgy would be impossible at that size beyond casting and like you mentioned fuel would be an issue as the fires would have to roar hotter than you could probably achieve and for longer than i care to figure out.
Clothing would also be an issue as well. You could use say mammoth hides but any type of effective stitching would cause the weight of all the other pieces attached to the weakest link to rip through that link.
>>47681355
>>47681253
Do you like MiraMira, /tg/?
>>47692056
Who?
>>47692086
The female macross delta lead who isn't Orange Ranka.
>>47692056
I need to watch this now..
>>47692114
No idea why but i'm drawing an entire blank on her.
>>47681253
If everything is the same size as the fucking earth who do you think would even notice some 40 foot elves. That's ludicrous
>>47691749
So you're saying we're going to have a bunch of naked 40 foot tall elves that sleep outside?
>>47681253
I'd wager 40 foot tall elf doesn't require more resources than a single gypsy family. And we're feeding dozens of those in my city alone.
>>47692825
Good shit right here.
>>47692825
Unless they form some kind of alliance/enslave a bunch of smaller creatures, yeah.
You know how it is kind of a pain in the ass to thread a needle? Imagine trying to thread that same needle when you are 40 ft tall.
They need human sized help to make shit that requires precision they cannot manage at their size. WE can make cloth sheets that can be scaled up to provide clothing for them, but I have serious trouble imagining how they could manage the same.
Not because they are stupid, but because they have far more limited options than we do.
It would be a mutually beneficial relationship, by the by. We can make all sorts of goods and services they would find nearly impossible to replicate, and they can offer protection and help in construction or transporting heavy loads that we would otherwise have great difficulty with.
Together we would be much, much better off than either side would be apart. Human allied giants would even have shit like metal weapons, something 'feral' giants would have to luck into finding.
>>47685391
RKO, FROM OUTTA NOWHERE.
>>47692941
But thats just it though. Any material you could make and swath them in would tear at its seams due to its own weight. Best they could do is if we used those crazy factory looms that turn out an endless swath of cloth except we don't cut it and maybe make it wider a bit then sell the giant rolls as toga style wear for them. Another issue they'll have is shoes. Their weight will mean they'll need equally resilient feet so imagine hobbit-esque feet minus the hair and you, again, can't make anything that would be effective shoes that you'd actually want them rolling around in. Metal shoes with crazy amounts of padding could do it but then you'd never let them within an area of say cities or agriculture or even roads as they'd just straight fuck them up.
Hell, they still wouldn't have effective tools as we can't make hafts or heads for anything their size wholesale like we can for say, hammers. Or knives. Or swords. Or even shovels. But lets say we do somehow make an effective shovelhead. The handle would have to be thicker in proportions as whatever they're going to be shoveling is now under the square-cube law. In order to not break for a normal in-proportions shovel head they'd be using shovel handles they'd have to attempt to put into a choke hold. They'd honestly be better off digging by hand. Oh, and those clothes wouldn't have to same give in comparison to our clothes so its loose, very loose, or you'll rip it when you lean over to dig.
They'd also have to move slowly all the damn time. While they won't freeze to death due to size they also don't cool anywhere near as effectively, again square-cube law, their volume is now much much greater than their surface and as such say a quick punch or jump would mean a nice long cool down period or they could effectively cook themselves with their own heat production. That's not even getting into the friction their joints would experience as the same mechanisms won't scale correctly either.
>>47693294
As such they'd get osteoarthitis easily and early even with slow basic movement. Broken bones would mean constant unmoving bedrest as well and steel girders and cable for splints since we could cast that shit properly without massive concrete pouring projects that just aren't feasible for a common medical procedure.
Also eyes don't scale, they tend to be fit for size. Insects have theirs for other insects in that general size, barring compound inability to properly focus, and as such they don't really see us until we're damn close. Fish much the same though in water. Humans the same. But here's the big issue. The vitreouy humour in your eyes isn't entirely transparent and several structures also in your eye aren't either. scale up, say, the retina you'd have to make it so thick you'd be near blind to most light unless insanely bright or if you made it thin enough to be effective a small jossle would detach it. This is also combined with everything looking murky through the obscene amounts of vitreous humour.
They'd be deaf too for much the same reasons.
Congrats. You now have a blind, deaf, naked or so loosely covered it doesn't matter, 40 foot elfu who can't properly defend themselves as attempt to do so means suicide.
>>47693294
Just use sailcloth. Shipwrights will make a mint on elf tunics.
>>47694718
You know i was only thinking of crude shit like woven cotton or wool or plain skins. Shit if its modern give them literal parachute pants. Lightweight and breezy. That would be an issue though. It would have to breathe or that overheating thing would be an issue.
>>47685982
>a big girl
for you
>>47694948
Realistically clothes on a giant probably wouldn't serve much purpose beyond modesty anyway.
>>47695929
I suppose. Maybe figleaf minimalism will be actual giant fashion.
>>47696080
Come to think of it could pasties work on giants?
>>47696101
pasties are still a bit lewd. Pasties show like ninety percent of the boob.
>>47685808
>The humans are scolding her for not wearing her helmet on a job site.
>>47697179
Yeah but minimalism is key here. Too much covered and what little ability to cooldown they have is gone.
>>47697350
>she's not even looking at them
what a bitch.
>>47697350
The artist who did this writes little vignettes to go with all his drawings. That's actually exactly what's going on here.
>>47697504
by the aforementioned written bit, also completely the case.
>>47681253
>See Macross for details
>>47697591
I figured from the title.
All this makes me think is that some special forces team gets captured by a giant child and placed into a giant doll house while having to defend the house against insects.
ala that Ed,Edd n' Eddy short https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUPCb8Uu_0w
>>47698016
I'd imagine they'd just shoot the kids eyes out and leave.
>>47698134
Or that but it doesnt sound fun
>>47682389
>Ernest macronizes for whatever reason
>Windermere VF suckerpunches him in the bathroom and steals his clothes to infiltrate
>They have a fistfight
>>47685105
That's actually safe for a human infant, if you trust whoever you're throwing it to. The point of the scene was to show that Miria didn't really get the maternal instinct or the value of life at that point.
>>47698307
Because neither exist.
>>47698316
Also catching a thrown baby is enough deceleration in a short amount of time to cause possible brain damage.
>>47698343
You'll notice Hayase decelerates the baby slowly because she's a naturally good mother, proving she is better than Minmay.
>>47698386
It doesn't matter. The fact that she caught the baby means you have to stop them get used to its speed and attempt to match then slow. Its enough of an impact that a childs brain could be damaged. If you don't believe me there's whole chapters on this shit in parenting book. Though baby's get like 10 freebies just like adults get like 2 freeby concussions.
>>47691749
>Interesting side question: how does being that large impact your technological development?
Even ignoring the kind of limitations size puts on early development, it complicates research in an already advanced society as well. It's generally thought that technological advancement is heavily tied to population. That's why on pre-industrial Earth, China had a lead on Europe, and basically everywhere in Afroeurasia was way ahead of the Americas and Australia.
In a sci-fi setting it's difficult to imagine a society with a 36th of everyone else's population keeping abreast of scientific development through their own work.
Hey Durendal, you here?
I'd like to ask some questions. Do you have a map? I'm reading your world bible and I'd like to know where things are. Also, any details of the first contact war with the Alaerin?
I've been playing CoH recently and amusing myself with the idea to write a story of the campaign against the aliens.
>>47700793
A really loose map yeah. Not a lot of detail on individual areas.
And the details on the first contact war are 'it didn't happen.' It got retconned out a few years back along with like 90% of the entire canon when I realized I was still trying to justify my angsty teenage self's magical-realm meets militaria-wank trash.
The first contact itself was mostly peaceful, and occured long before either species had much of anything resembling an interstellar nation, effective navy, or even particularly fast FTL.
On the flipside, a few more piratical Alaerin clanships, who had the faster FTL tech at the time, decided that 'colonies of tiny people with no reason to suspect aggression from space' sounded like free lunch, metaphorically speaking. Still fleshing out some of the events of that era.
>>47682599
>6^2
6^3
So 216 times the food.
>>47682942
>inbred
That's one of the reasons I really like the giants in Warhammer. Because of low population sizes, they're inbred to the extreme.
>>47700943
No, caloric consumption goes up by the square, unlike mass.
Read the whole thread before you try to look smart.
>>47701022
>No, caloric consumption goes up by the square, unlike mass.
Why?
Does Kleiber's law even apply to bipeds?
>>47701160
>Does Kleiber's law even apply to bipeds?
Why would it not?
We don't really have enough bipeds around to determine if it DOESN'T, so the safe assumption is that it DOES.
>>47700908
Okay. Looks like most of it takes place in the Orion Spur, Sagittarius Arm, and Scutum Centaurus Arm then. Just a guess-timate using pic related.
Also, basic time line is that earth gets fucked, colony ships are sent out, we meet one or two alien species whilst colonizing and then the earth finally stabilizes and we get our typical scifi government?
what if there were colonial independence movements? Some of which supported(either apparently or secretly) by alien forces?
war of independence in space/principality of zeon, basically?
>>47701348
'typical sci-fi government' doesn't come about. That's another hangover from the oldcanon where I had a terrible species=polity mentality.
Earth and some of the colonies form the Solar Federation (Couldn't resist the Rush joke.) which is still comprised of member states. earth was suitably fucked that Mars and Luna actually hold most of the sway in Sol itself, though Earth is slowly getting it back as the population continues to grow.
The League of Sovereign Systems, Twin Kingdoms Pact, and several independent worlds make up the rest of what's generally regarded as the human sphere.
There's also the Immaculate State, basically a 'black' colony ship funded by people who thought Brave New World was an amazing idea.
Between main human space and the Alaerin colonized region is the Providence Concordiat, composed of a smattering of Human and Alaerin border worlds that banded together for mutual support as the first-contact shocks wore down. Being pretty centerline, they buffer a lot of trade between each species core worlds, and other nearby species like the Vindians. As a result, they tend to think of themselves as the 'real' core worlds and have the economic and technical clout to be a general pain in the ass for any ideas of Federation adventurism.
I don't know much about most of the other races individual polities just yet. The Alaerin are mostly clan based, with small local governments along those lines. There is at least one pseudo-imperial power in the 'north' reaches of their space and a more unified democratic/corporate state to the south. The clans around their homeworld form what's coloquially known as 'council space' sense they have a system of such set up to mitigate disputes between them. The rest of their space is a fucking mess of roaming family ships, small homesteads,clans vying for individual power, and petty feudal kingdoms.
>>47701348
>what if there were colonial independence movements? Some of which supported(either apparently or secretly) by alien forces?
Another guy involved with the project here. What >>47701650 said; several of the colonies ARE actually independent, forming their own power bloc in human space--and several of these have treaties of their own with nonhuman races, or are outright shared worlds between multiple species. We tried to avoid the typical sci-fi trope of individual species being culturally or politically monolithic.
>>47701650
As a result, most conflicts tend to be fairly contained compared to the sprawling interstellar slugfests the old canon had. Not to say I'm ruling them out, just nothing quite so large scale has occurred so far in the modern timeline.
>>47701650
>>47701691
I like the move away from species=polity. It opens the setting up to more organic politics, and makes sense given that all of these species are fairly new to space travel. They're still in a formative feudal period and there hasn't been time for large empires or federations to form.
>>47701798
Another legacy guy here.
It also lets us make the individual groups a lot more distinct, instead of having them be just one part of a larger, uniform culture.
Instead of just "human-space" you've got a mishmash of 20-something original colonies that developed in isolation before everyone started reconnecting (and a whole lot of smaller 2nd and 3rd gen worlds too).
There's everything from corporate-states, to more traditional republics, to monarchies, at least one technocracy run by a bunch of cyberpunk guilds, and even a world where the colonists had to learn to coexist with sentient brainslugs native to the world they settled on.
And that's just in human controlled space. Ideally, most other species would be similarly diverse. We may make generalizations to get an overall "feel" across, but we definitely want to avoid having a species of X and a species of Y.
>>47701650
>>47701679
>>47702020
interested writefag again. Good to get this all cleared up. So, the original colonies spawn into space nations that all are unique in some way; republics and monarchies, technocracies and anarchism. They all have relations with each other; from allies to rivals, subjugates and overlords.
And in this, the human political sphere is but a small bubble among galactic polity, with all the other species being as diverse.
Mind if I generate some ideas and quick bits for some of these? To submit for approval, of course.
Perhaps I should name myself so you know who you're talking to. Also, any other rules of thumb to know so I dont fuck up?
>>47702811
By all means, throw some thoughts out there.
As for rules of thumb, that's a little hard.
A lot of the idea is putting a semi-permeable, more realistic spin on otherwise really B-tropes, (Like giant elves, for instance.) Secondarily, the name stems from a general meta-plot about the previous round(s) of galactic/trans-galactic civilization that made the universe what it is. (with a fair number of the species in setting having been engineered in some fashion, for instance.)
There's a lot of specifics about technology and the like, but probably easier to go over those as it comes up. I can also rattle off a big goddam list of species and places not yet touched on, if desired.
Also, +1 Internets for soviet space art. Never goes out of style.
>>47687237
I know this is bait, but eugenics won't really help much. Even with artificial selection, human lifespans mean that even if you could work out which traits should be encouraged, and even if you worked out a coherent way of measuring them, and even if you worked out a functional method of associating them with genetic markers, and even if you decoupled it from racist nutjobs who want to use it to advance their irrational ideas, it'd still take centuries (at best) to make even small changes across a meaningful chunk of the human race. At that pace, genetic engineering and cybernetics are going to get us there faster. Just go full transhumanist, m8.
>>47702982
So I got this for the moon so far.
>The first wave of colony ships were mainly funded by wealthy visionaries and corporate moguls, seeking either salvation or profit in the stars. As the earth rotted in pollution and war, these few monolithic structures crawled from orbital factories into the vast unknown. The first stellar body to be colonized was, predictably enough, the moon. Now known as Luna, the moon was home to not one, not two, but three independent colonies.
>The first colony, established by an American ship called Towards Future Days, set up in the basin of Mare Tranquillitatis, the site of Apollo 11, one of the original daring ventures into the void. A poetic statement for Americans, they created Apollo City, numbering only one hundred and sixty at the time of founding.
>The second colony, Xīn chéngshì(romanized as Xin-cheng), founded by China National Space Administration’s colonization ship The People’s Hope, set itself up in Mare Imbrium with a starting population of one hundred and seventy.
>The third and final colony, a small haphazard locale funded by a conglomerate of corporations called, unimaginatively, Lunar City, set up in Mare Insularum. With a starting population of two hundred and twenty, it was easily the largest colony in the beginning.
I dont really know where to go from there. I was thinking they(the colonies of Luna) would grow larger and larger, and would start developing hostile relations once... "living space" started to grow short and resources of frozen water and helium began to fall in each others' hands.
Then, Cold War on the moon. With three nations! And both China and America try to manipulate the different organizations in Lunar City to both weaken it and the other. But it backfires and anarchist revolution.
Ideas?
>>47703659
The only real way I can see them cold war-ing with each other is if their Earth counterparts do the same or something happens that prevents resupply.
At most, I would see it as a PR thing. They don't want to ask each other for help and look weak.
>>47681611
Not all the time, at some periods that dinos roamed there was less, bird lungs are just very good at what they do.
>>47686893
Seems that to get calories at there size they would probably have to be like polar bears and prey on marine resources like whales and seasonal migrants. Maybe even get fat in summer.
>>47703659
Gonna poke another one of the guys to respond to your idea more specifically, since developing Sol has mostly been his game so far. (at least the inner system) We'll see what he's got.
It's not a timeframe I've really considered overmuch, admittedly. The colony ships mostly went out before the 2090's, at least the first wave, and the current 'setting date' we deal with is closer to 2400.
I know a lot of the colonization of the Sol system was sorta piecemeal, lots of colonies growing up around earlier scientific and industrial outposts, over concerted people-moving efforts. By the time primitive warp tech was in production, most people and nations were keen on just getting out of dodge completely over moving elsewhere in the system.
Exploring the exact makeup of the Lunar and martian colonies, and exactly how they dealt with losing their supply lines, among other things, during the thirty minutes war and ensuing pseudo-blockade of earth, could make for some neat stories though
>>47703792
Also some good points. By the time things on earth start really heading for the shitter, there's already fairly primitive grav-engine freighters pulling chunks of ice from the outer system as need arises, for instance. So local lunar resources, while important, aren't survival-vital, exactly.
>>47703954
>...the thirty minutes war and ensuing pseudo-blockade of earth
Im assuming some sort of reason they got cut off from the colonies?
Were the earthers just not capable of getting anything off-planet? or was it a political movement that prevented it?
Also, I shall adjust this writing to suit the more practicality in their origins. ie, they'll be research stations and helium mines, rather than intended population centers.
Also, I'd be happy to throw ideas out for early days. The way I worldbuild is start from the beginning and go as far as I can go. But hey, whatever floats the goat.
>>47704179
Sorry for vagueness. We've sorta gone from the middle out and a full, coherent timeline just hasn't come together yet. (Several years of brainstorming sessions leaves the amount of stuff to be pegged onto something like that a little daunting.)
Anywho, the thirty minutes war was the settings world war three sort of event. Though it mostly boiled down to a cascading activation of the strike failsafes on most nations networks of kinetic kill satellites. There was some conventional fighting before and after, and possibly some limited tactical nuclear exchanges, but it mostly boiled down to everything remotely military related and surrounding population centers getting swiss-cheesed with tungsten rods.
During all of which the various satellite constellations defense elements started trying to murder each other, with the 'victorious' automated defenses, lacking anyone to tell them to knock it off, continuing to fire high-yield lasers at anything without proper IFF that attempted to enter, exit, or exist in ESO or below.
A combination of hastily built combat ships by the colonies and a few remaining ground anti-orbit laser installations managed to clean the mess up a few years later, but in the interim (and with the elevators lost in the bombardment,) earth was pretty well cut off from space for a bit.
>>47681253
Could a setting in which human sized people can sing in a manner able to fold space be realistic, or would you need space magic to support it?
>>47703659
Okay, I'm awake now D:
So, the moon! I'm not exactly sure about who originally founded it, but I know it mostly happened due to the invention of grav-plate technology and to help support the developing zero-g industry around Earth. At the time, the plates were only capable of sustaining a hair over 0.7g, so they just kept that as the norm even as the tech improved. Modern lunarians (sometimes called loonies) have a distinctly slim build to them.
During the late 21st century, the moon also got a little more independent and became known for giving political asylum to people from Earth. The corporate surveillance-state was getting more powerful in a lot of places, so unless a whistle-blower got to the moon, they were likely in for a bad time. The US in particular was not happy with this.
Mars was kind of a similar story. It was originally colonized to be a stopover for further industrial expeditions out to the asteroid belt and Jupiter, but wound up becoming more and more independent.
When every government on Earth collapsed in the Thirty Minute War of 2102, and Earth found itself blockaded in by killsats whose command and control had been decapitated by other killsats, Luna and Mars both declared independence and started coordinating their efforts to keep the air and water on.
As for the thirty minute war, there was basically another cold war from mid-21st century on. After the US used the first orbital interdiction strike in combat, every other developed nation began to seed Earth's orbits with ever more powerful killsats. Unlike the first cold war, no one ever came to their senses and when some stupid groundside dispute finally set the ball rolling, the killsats started firing off to decapitate just about every other government and military in the world.
Then, their C and C cut off, they went into automatic mode and just started taking potshots at anything on or around the planet that the onboard AI's thought matched their targeting parameters.
>>47704919
I see. This sounds like the basis for a great political thriller. But I must sleep now.
I'll think of something(basic plot, some barebones history) by the time I come back from work tomorrow.
g'night.
>>47705000
Always thought post Thirty Minute War Earth had a lot of fun potential too. Something like 30 percent of the population dead, with more to follow in the upheaval. Huge swathes of the world blacked out by EMP bursts, and dang near every government almost completely decapitated.
You've got huge political revolutions kicked off in the middle east (whether the Saudi royals get killed or just nope the hell out as quickly as possible is currently undecided), and the places not finally venting the last century of bullshit are just trying to rebuild.
Compounding the rebuilding is the fact that over time, the killsat AI's start to degrade. Their targeting parameters become a bit less defined, leading to quite a few instances of them bombarding refugee convoys or camps.
And of course, every two-bit warlord is trying to set up their kingdom in the middle of the anarchy. I know a couple surviving US congressmen, a few surviving billionaires, and a battalion of former US army set up shop in the ruins of Baltimore. Named their new city Liberty and declared themselves the capital of the new United States for a while (half a dozen places tried this). Unfortunately, for the thousands of refugees in Liberty, once you go in, you're not allowed to leave (for your own safety) and the place is basically under constant martial law.
Liberty eventually got busted open by a group of former US military and civilian volunteers with some help from some surviving corporate entities. Same thing happened to a lot of the other pocket-dictatorships around the US when the push came to finally restore some semblance of sanity.
>you will never explore the cosmos with a qt3.14 elf giantess
>>47681253
We would not need megaflora/fauna to support a race of 40-foot elves on an Earth-like planet, no.
Why the fuck would you even think that?
>>47706724
Even if they existed that wouldn't be happening to you.
>>47681253
If everything else is the size of the Earth, they would seem rather small.
>>47706881
Never count any anon with a second major in anthropology and no sense of fear out. You would be amazed how few University-trained anthropologists are willing to really throw themselves out there like that, particularly once they establish a professional career.
>>47706942
Ships would be segregated entirely to prevent accidents. As would living areas in general. Imagine having to walk around but being responsible not to step on every and any ant that you HAVE to notice or else you commit murder. Its simple death prevention. Now imagine that in zero-G. Also last one like that i personally met fell into a volcano recently.
>>47707048
The easiest solution would be to add raised walkways along the walls at around head height for the giants.
>>47707111
A falling giant would knock those down. a hand shooting out instinctively to catch themselves. You'd have people falling 40 feets to their death. Or you'd have signs telling giants they better risk that head injury and possible death, just in case. Cities that comingled would have underground paths for humans and thats pretty much the safest option as huge walkways 80 feet high (out of jumping height for idiot and juvenile elves) just aren't feasible OR safe. Helm you'd probably have to sigh a waiver just to enter the cities.
>>47707148
Wow. Autocorrect mangled that.
>>47707148
>A falling giant would knock those down. a hand shooting out instinctively to catch themselves. You'd have people falling 40 feets to their death. Or you'd have signs telling giants they better risk that head injury and possible death, just in case
Depends on how sturdy you make the walkways, you probably could make them enclosed tubes and double as railings for the giants on their walkways
>>47708188
Tubes seem like a bad idea too. Rather, make them embedded into the wall.
>>47708188
Those giants are 40 feet tall. Thats 175,089.679 metric tonnes. No amount of hollow railing will stop that.
>please justify my magical realm
>>47708232
I do prefer that idea honestly
>>47708233
While you have a point, that raises the question of how one can build any sort of structure for the giants, if you can't make the railing sturdy enough for them odds are you can't make a wall sturdy enough for them
>>47706896
Someone already made the "I'm being willfully dense" joke. Your2slow.
>>47708264
Solid foundation, Single story no basement buildings, and solid small tunnels through the floor for safe human movement. Remember they can deal with exposure in ways humans can't. Rain would be extraordinarily refreshing to them rather than chilling. You could just make shit like tents with detachable walls that can be put back up every blunder with ease.
>>47681253
Wait, Mirage is a Zentraedi/Human hybrid, right?
Can halfbreeds like her even macronize?
>>47698016
Wasn't there an episode where the edds had to fight giantess kankers?
>>47709204
You can even maclone a human.
>>47692941
What you'd get is a caste society, with humans as the crafters and the giants as the warriors.
>>47707048
>Imagine having to walk around but being responsible not to step on every and any ant that you HAVE to notice or else you commit murder.
If the giants are 40ft that means that the humans would appear to be about 10-11 inches from their perspective. That's hardly ant sized.
>>47681253
40 foot tall elf probably doesn't consume nearly as much food as 1,000 people.
Cut Earth's population from 7 bil to 6 bil and you can support a million giant elves
>>47681253
>40 foot tall elves ... enough food
Oh sure. Hell, whales eat sea-bugs.
The problem is not food in the least. We have a fuckton of food.
The problem is that physics doesn't scale.
If they have muscle and bone like the rest of the animals, they CANNOT JUMP. They're lumbering around like elephants.
Hell, they can't be bipedal. It's not a matter of how strong they are in the typical weight-lifter/gym mentality, it's the strength and efficiency of the materials that make up their body. There is no such thing as "super-saiyan" magic strength where if you scream loud enough you can fly and lift mountains without anything to leverage against.
And their hearts and lungs couldn't supply the needed resources throughout the body. If Earth had a higher Oxygen to CO2 ratio like in the jurassic period, then sure, the heart and lungs don't have to work as hard. The ugly truth is that if we transported a T-Rex to present day, he'd lay down wheezing and moving at all would make him exhausted and out of breath.
And the material that makes skin is only so strong. You're not going to get tight firm silky skin on something that's 40' tall. You're going to get saggy flaps of flesh or tough hard rhino/elephant skin.
Unless you involve magic. Then you ain't gotta explain shit.
>>47709933
>There is no such thing as "super-saiyan" magic strength where if you scream loud enough you can fly and lift mountains
Not with that attitude there isn't.
Also we showed earlier that during t-rex's time the atmosphere was pretty similar just a bit more CO2. They had inbuilt hollows in places and into bones as well as several sacks along with lungs. They'd be fine nowadays.
>>47709933
If I would ever want to give a hard scifi explanation for giants I would do it like this:
All 'normal sized' stuff is actually small. In order for people to feel normal on a planet with lower gravity they were scaled down until the acceleration of falling objects seems the same as it did on earth in their old bodies. Similarly all the density in their biological tissue and natural environment is really low, so it feels like earth. They can jump equally high proportionally and the air is as thin as they felt it on earth.
Humanoids much bigger than earth humans would be able to exist there, because of the lower gravity, and their proportional strength would be higher than the normal humans, who have a lower muscle density so they can lift proportionally as much as they could on earth, too.
>>47710159
>All 'normal sized' stuff is actually small.
That likewise has some REALLY freaky issues. Physics doesn't scale down that well either.
WATER TENSION. Do you enjoy taking showers? Turn on the faucet and watch a single water droplet form to the (relative) size of a basket ball. You have to force your way into the water.
>a planet with lower gravity they were scaled down until the acceleration of falling objects seems the same as it did on earth in their old bodies.
That's got a couple things going in the opposite direction.
So ants right? They can lift x50 their body weight. that's cause they're small. A shrunken human, amusing all the biological issues with capillary size and heart and lungs get straightened out, would be able to jump well above their own height. Lowering the gravity just INCREASES that discrepancy.
(Hell. LUNGS don't work if you get into insect-size physics. Air has tension just like water. You need a book lungs or spiracles, which are really just holes with no mechanical air movement. )
Second: Time doesn't give a fuck about size. Big planet, lots of gravity, things fall fast. Both big mountains and tiny ants. Small planet, low gravity, they fall slower. There's no magical way to "make it seem normal". You'll notice the difference any way you cut it.
> Similarly all the density in their biological tissue and natural environment is really low, so it feels like earth
ok, this is getting into magical land. It's no longer skin and bone if it's made of jello and Styrofoam. But hey, sure, different environment could evolve different materials to use in biology. But that's not human.
>Humanoids much bigger than earth humans would be able to exist there, because of the lower gravity,
YES. This one hits the mark. Just like whales in the water. It effectively reduces their weight.
>and their proportional strength would be higher than the normal humans,
NO. Strength != effects of gravity.
>>47710371
>time doesn't care about size
But distance does, if it takes 4 times as long to fall a certain distance it would seem normal if that distance looked 4 times as long, that's the whole point.I mean seriously, think about it before you post.
The small humans would have their strength diminished to compensate for the low gravity AND the ant effect. So big humans would be proportionally much stronger.
The wonky physics at small scale seems like a problem until you realize you don't need them to shrink down that much. If the smalls are a third the size and the bigs are 3 times the size the gigs are nine times as big as the smalls.
>>47710656
>But distance does, if it takes 4 times as long to fall a certain distance it would seem normal if that distance looked 4 times as long, that's the whole point.
.... I was going to call bullshit on this, but then I ran the math:
Hold a ball out in front of you. Drop it from 1 meter up on Earth. 0.45 s till it impacts.
Time to splat: sqrt ( 2 * 1m / 9.8 m/s^2 ) = 0.45s
If you want something that's 0.33m that takes the same time to land:
Time to splat: sqrt ( 2 * 0.33m / X m/s^2 ) = 0.45s
X = 3.234 m/s^2
And then vary distance to see if it scales:
sqrt ( 2 * 2m / 9.8 m/s^2 ) = 0.63s
sqrt ( 2 * .66m / 3.234 m/s^2 ) = ...... 0.638876565
Whelp. You got me there.
>>47710994
That seems off. Did you account for window resistance and reduced weight but similar volume at scale?
>>47710159
>All 'normal sized' stuff is actually small.
Ok.
>>47710159
>In order for people to feel normal on a planet with lower gravity they were scaled down until the acceleration of falling objects seems the same as it did on earth in their old bodies. Similarly all the density in their biological tissue and natural environment is really low, so it feels like earth. They can jump equally high proportionally and the air is as thin as they felt it on earth.
>Humanoids much bigger than earth humans would be able to exist there, because of the lower gravity, and their proportional strength would be higher than the normal humans, who have a lower muscle density so they can lift proportionally as much as they could on earth, too.
Whoa whoa whoa, that's not how this works at all. It doesn't make any sense to put the small people on the low-gravity planet, apparent acceleration of falling objects be damned.
What you want is to take a scenario where Earth is one of the highest gravity planets to evolve life. Everything here is strong, tough, and compact.
The giant race(s) on the other hand, evolved on lower gravity worlds which allowed them to be bigger. They're not all lanky like low-gravity humans though. They have similar proportions because at their huge size they still need strong bones and muscles to support themselves.
>>47709933
>And their hearts and lungs couldn't supply the needed resources throughout the body. If Earth had a higher Oxygen to CO2 ratio like in the jurassic period, then sure, the heart and lungs don't have to work as hard.
Well that's easily resolved. Multiple hearts and lungs. Have a set every couple of meters, with the lungs all hooked up to a branching trachea that starts in the mouth/nose as usual.
>>47711224
But that would mean the story would have to take place in an alien environment. Instead of a normal looking environment with giant humans.
>>47711225
That trachea would be huge. Same for the hearts. And lungs....and the nose. And mouth. And diaphram. Bigger than the proportionately sized humanoid body. and then it would have to somehow produce enough oxygen intake and blood flow to not only support just those organs but every other organ and body party as well. I can't even imagine how much oxygen the brain would need and not be getting.
>>47711261
If the giants want to hang out on Earth they can just wear some anti-grav gismos.
Humans on alien planets can do the reverse to keep their muscles from atrophying. Wear something that increases local gravity.
>>47710159
Giantesses should wear underwear when there are smaller folk about
>>47709933
>>47710159
>>47710371
I think the first question OP needs to answer is how hard or soft this scifi is
From there given the fact that there ARE 40ft tall elves we can try to work out how they fit the setting, but at the very least if the answer to the first question is "Very hard scifi" then the answer is they probably won't unless they're made specifically for very low g environments
>>47711412
Why? What are the small fry going to do about it?
>>47711482
Gawk mostly, probably a lot a picture taking and indecent exposure complaints
Probably a few idiots will try to get a better look
>>47711499
That would be a lot of people being labeled sexual predators. Those are 8 year olds if you'd believe it. I'm not even joking.
>>47711514
>8 year olds
>Tits that proportionally big
I roll to disbelieve
And if that is the case I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people did get labeled pedos after the two of them took a stroll through town
>>47711482
>What are the small fry going to do about it?
This is exactly the kind of mentality you can never have if you want a society where people of different sizes coexist peacefully.
>>47711514
Bullshit. Those are clearly 75+ boats.
>>47711608
>>47711551
They're considered very young loli in show and act accordingly. No stated age but they're kindergarten to just above age.
>>47711727
>>47711727
that's INCREDIBLY creepy
>>47711787
nigga, it's just a cartoon
>>47711787
The captains are routinely hinted at banging their "ships" through wordplay and all the ships really like the admiral.
>>47709933
We can work with elephant skin.
>>47711991
God that super prehensile neon tongue. I'd help them kill the world in my weaboo fightan robutt just for that. Not even mentioning they could straight up build me a sex kaiju.
>>47712427
Wrong kaiju
>>47712449
I believe every kaiju has a unique supersexual hypersensual omnidirectional very prehensile glowing neon tongue. Is that so wrong?
>>47712499
Probably, but we're getting off topic, I'll repeat my question of how hard scifi this setting should be
>>47712522
As hard as possible.
>>47712581
Then as I said earlier, unless you go for VERY low g environments (and probably and artificial species) it's not possible
>>47712653
Well i'm not op but i'd personally like as much leeway as needed to make them function on earth. If we gotta give them crazy hollow but somehow super reinforced bones to lighten the load and reinforce the musculature as well then go for it. Helium in the chest cavity perhaps? If we gotta literally magic shit go ahead they ARE elves. I'm sure theres work arounds that let us avoid that though and keep them humanoid.
>>47712747
>Well i'm not op but i'd personally like as much leeway as needed to make them function on earth. If we gotta give them crazy hollow but somehow super reinforced bones to lighten the load and reinforce the musculature as well then go for it. Helium in the chest cavity perhaps?
Problem is you could never get this and a functional humanoid lifeform
>If we gotta literally magic shit go ahead they ARE elves. I'm sure theres work arounds that let us avoid that though and keep them humanoid.
Not really, though it doesn't have to be overt, you can have it be something like [insert reason for giant humanoid mechs to be effective despite square cube law] and have it affect them too
>>47712747
>>47712850
You're going to have to handwave SOMETHING for them to work no matter what you do to be honest
>>47712919
>>47712850
Hardpoints affixed to each cell but in a seperate dimension that bears some weight? Or share space multidimensionally wholesale? Again magic but still its a nice simple handwave rather than a thousand "but.."s
>>47712969
>Hardpoints affixed to each cell but in a seperate dimension that bears some weight? Or share space multidimensionally wholesale? Again magic but still its a nice simple handwave rather than a thousand "but.."s
That could work, but opens a whole new can of worms, what other effects could existing in other dimensions have on them?
>>47713123
Depends. Maybe the dimensions are quite similar. Otherwise i'd imagine sharing sight between say 10 variable dimensions would be hard. Maybe they duck slightly in enclosed places more than they should cause the a ceiling in say dimension 8 is a half a foot lower than dimensions 1-7,9,10. Maybe its different dimensions between individuals so some deal better with heat by existing 7/10's in a slightly warmer dimensions or some are more toned for being 3/5ths in slightly higher gravity. This shouldn't change their weight "here" as its evenly divvied mass.
>>47713305
Ex: look at the long earths thread. How similar/dissimilar are those from step to step?
>>47711137
>window resistance and reduced weigh
No.
I didn't even account for air resistance, which is the only time weight would matter. But it's just 1/3rd, it shouldn't matter that much. Air isn't THAT viscous.
>>47711224
Then they get to earth and collapse under their own body weight. If it's set in space and that sort of thing doesn't matter, then sure, that's legit.
>>47713415
It's possible that the skintight elastic spacesuits provide some degree of passive support in high gravity so they can at least walk around.
>>47713415
>Then they get to earth and collapse under their own body weight. If it's set in space and that sort of thing doesn't matter, then sure, that's legit.
See
>>47711396
>>47713531
If it had antigravity support it could work, raises the question of what they used before that though
>>47681253
Why not just shrik humanity?
>>47715551
You know that whole "you're never more than five feet away from a spider" thing? Unless tiny-humanity had Ant Man super strength we'd rapidly go extinct.
>>47715724
We'd also instantly suffocate to death.
>>47692350
You know damn well what OP meant
>>47715724
Shrink spiders too
>>47715933
What if we just shrank everything down by 6.66 scale that way WE'D be 40 feet tall?
>>47715984
But then where do the 40ft tall elves come in?
>>47716009
We could just get the elf ear surgery and make cosmetic surgery mandatory.
>>47681253
Realistically they wouldn't be able to support their own weight if everything else was Earth-sized.
There is a reason Elephants look the way they do, gravity becomes extremely rough on the body the larger you become.
Throwing that out the window though they'd have to be herbivores to keep up for the massive energy demands, and probably also extremely docile.
Either that or you can say they all farm extremely energy-efficient magic plants that fulfill all of their dietary needs, and only eat other food as exotic meals.
>>47690178
this contradicts what >>47686595 just said.
I think the large insects simply had more advanced inner workings to support them
>>47716513
You're a retard. Look at the damn timeline.
>>47716030
No, I mean if the setting has 40ft elves but everything else the same, that includes humans, so we can't just leave humanity at normal size
test
>>47717488
>>47705000
Dinner was good. Y'all motherfuckers need some pea soup in your lives.
So idea for Luna. During the late 21st century, small research and manufacturing bases are established in orbit and on the moon. The ones on the moon mainly belong to USA, China, Europe, Japan and Corporations(mainly those in the tech and mechanical industries; pushing the envelope for space-related tech).
Pretty much all stations are pawns in the Cold War back on earth, with weapons secretly being shipped and all that espionage stuff.
>>47717511
>>47705000
After the Half Hour War, they start panicking. No resources coming up from earth, half the stations starve to death. Those that survive are clamoring for anything and everything they can get their hands on. Thus begins little feuds and skirmishes between the last surviving stations, and they slowly form into around a dozen/half-dozen 'nation'-states. Then, Cold War: Luna edition begins. This lasts until the Age of Reunification, where earth contacts Luna. Now, I noticed that this is peaceful contact, so I'll reserve my suggestion that a attempted Reconquest of Luna that brings the nations of Luna closer together against an enemy of their freedom.
That's just the history for Luna. What were you imagining for their cultures? I was thinking some type of isolationism and an emphasis on technological affinity, considering they started out as research centers and experimental manufacturing plants.
Also, an idea for Mars was something like one large city slowly becoming the only civic center, surrounded by a waste land containing bandits and creatures of man's own twisted designs.
And the rings of Saturn would be a perfect place for a feudal system, with Saturn being the main "resource" area, and all the different asteroids being fiefs. Basically, each fief would have a claim and territory for the mining of Saturn. This sort of mirrors the self-sufficiency of fiefs in medieval times.(here's a handy pocket guide to fiefdom I find invaluable)
I dont know why this shit wasnt letting me post. Fucking NipMoot.
>>47717526
Russian DDOS attack
we are back cuz hiroshima rangeb&d commieland
RIP slavs
>>47717557
in that case, Im sorry for the insult Nipmoot sempai
>>47717526
Only issue with that is that it's actually Luna and Mars that wind up breaking Earth free in the end. I think we're going to extend the period a little, keep Earth blockaded by the satellites for 10-15 years, but then it's Luna and Mars that ride to the rescue. They build humanity's first militarized spaceships and (along with some support from the ground) start blapping the killsats out of orbit.
Afterwards it's Luna and Mars that kind of dictate the peace for a while, sending aid down to the surface and looking suitably intimidating up in orbit so that no one tries anything stupid until some sense of stability is restored.
Mars varies a bit. There's definitely domed cities and some sort of government. You also have the barsoomians, who live out away from those in what are basically anarchist communes. Durendal has put more thought into Mars than I have though.
And yeah, the communities around the asteroid belt, Jupiter and Saturn are likely pretty diverse. Resourceful, independent spacer-folk.
>>47717526
>>47717724
>You also have the barsoomians, who live out away from those in what are basically anarchist communes.
Yeah, I lifted the idea from Eclipse Phase. Name to change as a result, but the idea of plenty of people living in the outbacks not wanting much government interference sticks around.
The outer system probably does have plenty of feudal-style stuff going on, yeah. I know the Jovian and Saturnan systems have a fair number of Stanford and O'neill stations. Maybe even the odd Cole bubble out in the belt. Most habs out there are going to be fairly independent when it comes to inner-system politics and the like.
The populations on most of the stations on mars/luna/outsystem are designed to be at least mostly self-sufficient in case of such an emergency. Sure a lot of people are probably going to be getting by on supplement pills and algae slush from cultivation tanks, but widespread starvation isn't very likely.
Still, small skirmishes over spare parts and desirable foodstuffs could certainly happen. As for caches of weapons on the moon, this is possible, but there's also a pretty harsh mistress vibe there. A lot of those stations already have mining facilities with delivery mass drivers that could be used to hammer earthbound targets anyway.
>>47687737
Frontier was the best thing after the OG series.
>>47717724
>>47717802
Good to hear more info. Will adjust accordingly. Also, why do Luna and Mars want to free earth? How does that serve them?
>>47718164
Humanitarian reasons first of all. With a lot of crop growing regions suffering from either devastation or nuclear winter, things are looking pretty bad.
Secondarily, it's a card they can hold onto basically forever. "Saved your asses, still owe us."
Thirdly, it comes down to setting tone. Even if it's arguably more realistic to just let everyone on earth rot and starve for past transgressions or just because it's expedient, that's...really not the sort of tone and precedent I'm going for. I hesitate to call the setting noblebright, but it definitely leans towards that end of the spectrum.
>>47718219
Pretty much this. Legacy isn't a HFY *or* a HFN setting. There's plenty of conflict but it's not really out to show off human worthlessness in all its guises, lol.
>>47718219
good points. I enjoy a few noblebright/noblegrim/whatever-the-fuck-it's-called settings.
You could always chalk it up to a cultural movement, like the humanism movement of the 1600s.
>>47681253
I'd make their mitochondria act as cold-fusion reactors, extracting energy from deuterium. So, they would just need to drink water to fuel their metabolisms.
>>47718312
I figure that may largely be the case, yeah. I feel like this whole fiasco is humanities come-together moment of learning not to be quite so shitty to each other as they had been. For a few hundred years, at least.
While I'm still fairly interested in the militaria and such of it, I really feel like the sci-fi scene has enough war-all-the-time kind of settings.I'd really like to save particularly grim political situations, disasters and major wars for surprising and impactful plot points, rather than what sometimes seems the norm of 'shitty things forever'
>>47718395
'nother good point. I feel the reason why we have those types of settings because violence, especially war, is the ultimate conflict. And with out conflict, there is no story.
Now, you can have conflicts that aren't violent, but that can get boring and be hard to write for amateurs or it can be hard to digest for the average audience. Thus why we have never ending war in our futures.
Also, we need more hopeful stuff in scifi. People use it nowadays exclusively to spell out their worries for the future; seemingly forgetting that it can also be used to define our hopes and dreams for the future.
In fact, the only scifi I watch that does this seems to be Macross. Man, what I wouldn't give for Macross to be reality kek.
>>47718474
I think you've outlined, 100%, exactly what the overall theme of the setting is trying to accomplish.
I'm certainly not averse to violent conflict in setting, but as it is I've tried to set it up so that can be, in stories, things more akin to Firefly or Cowboy Bebop than BSG or other military sci-fi. The setting politics overall is relatively stable, but there's always 'interesting' stuff going on in the cracks and corners.
As well later on, the non-violent sort of conflict is a good deal of what Alaerin as a plot element are about. Giant psionic elves are waifubait, sure. But I feel like the point of intelligent giants in general is as a sort of fantastic metaphor for power disparity/classism and that sort of thing. Even if the giant space elf is perfectly friendly, and even if technology gives you some degree of parity if things came to blows overall, one-on-one, you're still dealing with something totally beyond you, in your natural physical states. And I feel like that drama is integral to human/giant relationships in anything.
Which is sorta why the work group for legacy as a whole tends to be a little disappointing with hand waving away the giants giant-ness as optional.
>>47718574
disappointed, even. Thank you, spellcheck, for being almost right.
>>47718474
>seemingly forgetting that it can also be used to define our hopes and dreams for the future.
I think that's because the most famous sci-fi series to go this route is Star Trek, and everybody wants to avoid being another Star Trek.
>>47719433
With good reason. Star Trek can be boring.
>>47719433
Fair enough, it's something I'd thought about a little myself. In the end I try to split the difference. Try to portray the future in an optimistic way without going as far as trek sometimes did. Definitely possible to envision the future as better without letting it get too perfect.
>>47718574
>Which is sorta why the work group for legacy as a whole tends to be a little disappointed with hand waving away the giants giant-ness as optional.
In Macross. Forgot my subject.
>>47719502
>Definitely possible to envision the future as better without letting it get too perfect.
Thank god for Deep Space Nine.
>>47718574
>Even if the giant space elf is perfectly friendly, and even if technology gives you some degree of parity if things came to blows overall, one-on-one, you're still dealing with something totally beyond you, in your natural physical states. And I feel like that drama is integral to human/giant relationships in anything.
I definitely feel you here. The tension - both personal and societal - brought on by sapients of radically different sizes coexisting fascinates me.If you haven't already I would suggest you check out "Titan: Physics" by Openhighhat, "Size Matters" by Jacksomm Trifker, and "Omega: Consequences" by Ackbar.
I think all the links are in here: http://pastebin.com/9VJFzALC
None of these settings are quite as serious as Legacy is, but they handle the sci-fi implications of the size fetish intelligently and are very well written. Especially "Consequences". That story is fucking heavy.
>>47719969
It is a big part of where most of the impetus for the setting comes from, yes.I'm relatively familiar with most, may have to do a little re-reading at some point. Also, a newfound desire to get on that sort of list may help get my ass back to work.
Anywho, I'm going to make my way to bed, pushing 3am as it is. In the likely event the thread dies before I get up, you, Ham Slam, and any other interested anons have my contact info up there somewhere. Can maybe organize another such thread or I can do a legacy specific thing and get some feedback on other aspects of the setting, or something.
>>47720163
>Anywho, I'm going to make my way to bed, pushing 3am as it is. In the likely event the thread dies before I get up, you, Ham Slam, and any other interested anons have my contact info up there somewhere. Can maybe organize another such thread or I can do a legacy specific thing and get some feedback on other aspects of the setting, or something.
I've been getting into writing myself and I've always been a fan of the Legacy setting so I might hit you up about becoming a contributor later.The bar for Anon's list isn't THAT high, but I only put finished stories on there to avoid pointing other people towards hopelessly dead projects. "Titleless" and "Solitude" would be on there otherwise.
This thread reminded me of zen4life's "Sonata di Empatia" and I considered sticking it on there too, but I decided that because it's no longer canon it would be confusing to reference it alongside any future legacy stories.
>>47718474
There is too much bad future scifi now a days
Why the fuck can't things be optimistic again?
>>47720664
>There is too much bad future scifi now a days
>Why the fuck can't things be optimistic again?
Terrible dystopian futures have always been a part of Sci-Fi, even as early as Wells' "The Time Machine". Star Trek is actually kind of an exception.
>>47720751
Yeah but now it seems like there is only terrible dystopias
>>47720990
That's because evidence is all pointing to that being our fate in the public eye. I'd have to google it later since i'm off to work but there was a nice chart that showed dystopian/utopian movie and book generation coincided its setting with the public opinion of the future. If people had hope for their countries future that country started producing more utopian media or at least nice stories in general. Similar leanings for countries heading down rocky paths. Of course there was the yearish layover between these periods where its all over until the curve is set. Coincidentally during recessions and war times murder mysteries actually start selling like hotcakes.
>>47714864
Weightlifters sometimes wear heavy spandex because the fabric stores elastic energy when you lower the weight, which makes it easier to come back up. You could probably do something similar here.
>>47712427https://static1.e621.net/data/dc/40/dc401fa488238852c62b38775c4173a0.jpg
>>47716513
> this contradicts what >>47686595 just said.
No. There are a few (hundred) million years between dinosaurs (Jurrassic/Cretaceous - 200-65 MYA) and giant insects (Carboniferous/Devonian - 500-300 MYA).
>>47720290
I think I speak for everyone when I say we'd like that a lot. Always good for morale to have new active contributors.I know, but like you pointed out, I have trouble finishing things. There's basically no finished fiction for newcanon. And the only finished things for oldcanon wasn't by me.
Sonata remains a personal favorite example of goals in tone. Zen's not with the project anymore over creative/political differences though.
>>47711328
They probably have human-sized brains with ganglia the size of brainstems scattered throughout the body to handle local motor control and homeostasis. The trachea can achieve a significant improvement in efficiency if they have a birdlike system for constant inflow and local storage (perhaps something akin to swim bladders?) to avoid needing to cycle between inhaling and exhaling. The hearts don't need to be disproportionately large, since they're dividing up the work. They will take up more combined volume than a single, just-scaled-up heart, but that might also be helped by evolving a strategy for using skeletal muscle to help drive contractions. Giant elves might get very uncomfortable sitting still, although that's also the time they can afford to have the worst circulation (and so might balance out).
>>47724146
>I know, but like you pointed out, I have trouble finishing things. There's basically no finished fiction for newcanon. And the only finished things for oldcanon wasn't by me.
Set yourself a deadline for things, it helps me finish stuff like that
>>47698307
I think neither does Max at that point.
I mean look at him, he's not even giving the remotest of a single fuck.
>>47726147
He's seen her do shit like that enough to not give a fuck anymore
If Durendal or any of the other Legacy guys are here, I have a question.
The setting book uses the term "standard template species" to refer to humans and Alaerin, so I presume its a classification for humanoid species who were likely "designed" by the Vorn/Vlentoi. Is there a list or description of the features that all standard template species share?
Also, there seems to be a lot of alien races that are named but not described. Are all of these species standard template humanoids, or are some of them truly alien? When designing non standard template alien species, are you trying to hit the normal "there's an aquatic cephalapod race, and aquatic mammalian race, an insectoid race, an avian race, a reptilian race, etc." that most space opera settings have, or would you prefer some Wayne Barlowe-esque genuine weirdness?
>>47728827
I'm still kind of a junior contributor so I'll let Durendal and RC give a better answer than what I can here, but I can say that at the very least it includes the two arms, two legs, two eyes, head and torso humanoid bodyplan.
In some cases you get species that achieved that bodyplan before becoming more humanlike in other ways (bare skin, the humanoid facial structure, etc...). And in other cases you get some really weird shit like the brainslugs and RC's Gulchabrava race. Ask him about that one, they're neat and alien as fuck.
>>47728827
Back from being out.
Hokay, so standard template species. the Vorn themselves are this, as are the Ain'a, the two major 'ancient' races. Most other species described as such, Humans, Juntians, Vindians, etc. (Most of those are anglicizations) are as well. They appear to have evolved naturally on their homeworlds, just with the outcome being alarmingly similar to terran humans. To the point that, though none have been introduced, I have pocketed the idea of 'non-terran humans,' or species so close to the standard they're borderline indistinguishable, aside from being of 'ethnicities' no terran would recognize, along with other minor deviations.
Others, like the Alaerin, were engineered by the first phase of them. The Vorn especially went about doing this for shits and giggles, and I'm sure plenty of species in the milky way had their beginnings as designer morphs during the height of Vlentoi creativity.
There are a lot of in-setting guesses as to what's going on, but I try not to answer things like this outright, because everybody needs some mystery. That said, the one that's correct in my head canon is thatHumanoid life and the biospheres to support it were created on location by seeded swarms of nanobots/femtobots/wave-state machines as a bizarre method of 'colonization' by a dying race from another galaxy/universe.
Races named but not explained that aren't humanoid:
Risen: Pic related. Giant psionic eel-rays.
Spaari: Fairly bog-standard insect race, aside from being individuals and not any sort of hive organization.
Gulchabrava: I don't know where to start. Really weird thing from another contributor. Females are like one-armed swamp...penguin...things? Males are basically mouth+genital tentacles that are symbiotically fused to their back. Both are fully sentient, and support each other both physically and psychologically. Can try and get that guy in here to explain better if you want.
aaand post limit.
>>47729429
Spaari pictured.
Kukiri: Fuzzy little tree dwellers most people mistake for nonsentients.
Goshin: Something between canine and ursine. Basically picture an upright, semi-humanoid polar bear.
Mirrunians: If a velociraptor was also a wolf, and sentient. And interstellar monarchists.
Orhau: These are >>47728955 's thing. Fatalistic, communist offshoots of a herd species. Fond of brutalist architecture and walls. Not fond of things with pointy teeth.
Klurrg: (Use as many r's as you want.) Bipedal crab/insect terrifying things. I believe the Xasheen found them pre-spaceflight and sorta hired them on as shocktroopers. Scary good at what they do. Which tends to involve lots of rip and tear.
Wuza: Something like sentient bat people of a sort? Very short lived, talk super fast, always *super excited* about everything in life because they don't get a lot of it.
Matula: Huge predatory worm things. Fairly renowned as bounty hunters, though they're more in it for the hunting than the pay.
Lucid: The aforementioned brainslugs. Can only remain fully sentient while attached to a sentient host. native to a human colony world, and generally super friendly.
Thaaat's all the major not-near-human species I can think of at the moment
I don't know if I've ever seen a thread being alive for so long on this board.
>>47729634
In fairness, it now has diverged into like four different topics.
>>47729554
>Mirrunians: If a velociraptor was also a wolf, and sentient. And interstellar monarchists.
>Matula: Huge predatory worm things. Fairly renowned as bounty hunters, though they're more in it for the hunting than the pay.
>>47729634
There are 16 older threads on the catalog right now.
/tg/ is slower than you think.
>>47729554
>>47729429
Should also note that where a species seems to be a monopolity or monoculture, that generally just means we've only just sort of started fleshing them out and plan to add divergences in culture and politics later.
>>47728827
>or would you prefer some Wayne Barlowe-esque genuine weirdness
All open to genuine weirdness. The humanoid thing plays into the central theme of, well 'legacy' and also offers some neat social points, imho. Like exploring how other species feel that so much of the galactic stage is filled with like eighty different varieties of basically the same ape things.
That said, i call the Vorn and Ain'a 'ancient' in quotes because they existed within the region of like 80,000 years ago at most. In the grand scheme of things, no older than the modern species. and I'd definitely like for there to be some increasingly weird shit the further back you go. Even after they achieved near supremacy of their own galaxies, those two were still finding incredibly old things they still couldn't make much sense of, artifact wise. And who knows when the related species may turn back up or finally take notice of all this noise on their lawn. May be good to save the top-tier genuine weirdness for that eventuality.
>>47729672
I don't know much about the Matula myself, but I can tell you that Mirrunians are actually fairly easy to get along with and generally pretty sociable. They just also happen to be, well, intelligent pack-hunting apex predators with extremely deadly natural weaponry.
>>47729634
I've seen them live a lot longer
>>47729796
Apex predators are alright as long as you don't look like food.
>>47730761
This is why they really don't get along with the Orhau.
>>47730845
Mmm-hmmm. That and most Orhau really aren't fond of hierarchies based on things that aren't merit.
>>47729429
>>47729554
I feel I should mention, while we're laying out the different species, that they all don't live in the same region of space. They're spread out in smaller regions that are connected by ancient stargates that keep getting discovered.
For example, humans control a region of space about space about 600 lightyears across. Alaerin and vindian space butts up against it. The goshin homeworld is actually well inside human space. The small number of worlds the velii (6 inch tall micro-humans) control are also technically within human space.
There's one stargate in human space, and one in alaerin space, and it's through these that they wind up encountering other species like the spaari, risen, juntians and mirrunians.
There are several models of gate, and it appears to actually be multiple gate networks built on top of one another by different species across a large chunk of time.
It should also be noted that while gate travel is instant, regular FTL travel still takes some time. Very rough shorthand, it takes about a month to travel 300 lightyears, not including any stop along the way.
>>47731165
>The small number of worlds the velii (6 inch tall micro-humans)
Okay, how does this one work?
>>47731165
>velii (6 inch tall micro-humans)
Because an alaerin/human fistfight wouldn't have been silly enough.
>>47731271
Literal space magic. One of the ancient races had full-blown reality-warping stuff going on. The subset of species that are around that size started out as politically troublesome citizens who were being taught humility rather bluntly.
But the Ain'a are also big on the concept that everyone has a service to perform, so over time they started just engineering from such individuals until you get subspecies designed as pocket-engineers or captive entertainers and the like. (eventually to the point of pets or, among the crews of board and well equipped starships with leniant political officers, gladiators)
Unlike the Alaerin, whose size I explain as being the product of using highly advanced genegeneering so that cells form/use complex carbon structures, etc, there's really no clear answer for the Vellii and others to in-setting scientists. They just flaunt physics completely.
>>47731271
As far as humans are concerned, they're as equally impossible as the alaerin. Also very likely artificial, given how abruptly they appeared on their homeworld and how they have no evolutionary ancestors there.
They primarily lived in caves and underground during their early years. Bird-analogues and basically any kind of predator were kind of rough on them if they stepped out above ground. Eventually they invented big enough guns to solve those issues.
By modern legacy, they have colonized like 3-5 worlds, along with some space stations/asteroid bases. Technologically they're actually more advanced than a lot of other species, especially when it comes to antigrav. They're also very fond of arcologies and habitat towers. Tend to use a lot of robots and such to interact with bigger species (they tend to be pretty skittish unless they trust you a lot).
Don't hate me.
I know this is gonna seem magical realmy but i am legitimately intrigued by the sociological implications of multiple sapient races commingling.
What are the stances on relationships between species and how would that even work?
>>47731354
>there's really no clear answer for the Vellii and others to in-setting scientists. They just flaunt physics completely
Were the Velii scientists aware of this themselves before they met the other species? What do they think of the fact that their very existence is inexplicable in the context of the scientific laws that apply to everything else in the universe?
>>47731690
They're pretty spooked by it, if secular. Or view it proof of their myths, in a lot of other cases. Since most of them in the milky way were left there when ships associated with the Ain'a expeditionary forces crashed, they mostly have at least some inkling in their mythical past that they're not supposed to be where they are.
was also thinking studying how their neurological systems seem to interface with higher dimensions is how they puzzled out hyperdrive, which is pretty unique to them. (Warp and a sort of particle cloak being the mainstays in setting)
Possible some think it makes them 'special' somehow or superior to the big, slow creatures the galaxy is full of. Others rightly suspect their artificial origins. (Though given the prevalence of humanoids, basically all humanoid species *know* they have to be artificial at some level, after meeting each other.)
>>47731676
That's generally very depending on where you are and who you're with. Some cultures look down on that sort of thing while others embrace it completely, and the whole gamut inbetween.
Humans and Alaerin, for example, tend to get along fairly well in those regards. But there's often tensions that Alaerin's empathic ability gives them an edge in pursuing humans, or a fear that those that are telepathic are being outright forceful. A human might be teased for enjoying being 'somebody's doll' while an Alaerin may be teased for playing with said dolls. Or you get places where 'blues don't count' is an unspoken rule. So yeah, it's really very variable.
>>47731676
>>47731817
>Or you get places where 'blues don't count' is an unspoken rule. So yeah, it's really very variable.
Fun-fact: On the planet Luminaire (a human colony world right on the border with alaerin space) there's a saying called "playing the blue card," wherin your significant other gives you a free pass to shack up with an alaerin for the night. Technically, nothing a human and alaerin can do with eachother is really "sex" afterall.
But yeah, it really varies where you go. Out in the Concordiat worlds, for example, humans and alaerin getting intimately involved is just kind of a thing that happens. But, back in the human coreworlds, that sort of thing seems kind of crazy, and strange, and surely those fringeworlders are just exaggerating things to try and get a rise out of them.
Just really depends on the location, and the species involved.
Back from work and finished my spaghetti.
I'll have to email you Durendal with the writings I have. Still have to start on them. Ditched the stuff I had when more info came in.
And, if I may suggest, might you change the years that earth is isolated from a decade or so to perhaps a century? I'm thinking that a mere ten years would be too little time for technology to advance that drastically and for whole cultures to spring up.
Also, Saturn and Jupiter being monarchist states(Saturn's fiefs being on the Asteroids in her belt, and the sixty moons of Jupiter being her fiefs?), with the asteroid field that splits the inner and outer system be a wild west sort of land, with petty bandit kingdoms and desperate strongholds? Like, pirate lands.
Also also, reading through your posts on the species. I gotta say, I like the variety. Bounty Hunter worms sound cool. Also, since the Risen are psionic, does that mean other races have psi potential? Like humans? Or is it exclusive to Risen? Is it true psi, or nanomachines n' shit?
I'd like to ask about starship combat, tech, ect too.
>>47732846
I don't think tech and culture changed too much during those ten years, more they cemented the seperation between earth and her solar colonies. So that once the blockade was broken, there was, in most peoples minds, no going back to being so firmly attached to their home nations. many of whcih no longer existed anyway.
I do like the idea of giving things more time to stew, but at the same time I can't see how a blockade of satellites in predictable trajectories could really stay together for longer than a few years, when a dedicated effort is being made to remove it.
Definitely can see some lawlessness in the outer system. Normal for many solar systems I think, though there may as well be concentrated pushes to get pirates out of there.
Risen are the only non-engineered species I know of with psionics. I'm sure there's some kinda technobabble explanation for how it works, but it is definitely a biological thing, as opposed to radio-implants or nanites or something.
Humans actually do start to manifest telepathy and telekinesis after meeting the Alaerin. Intimate mental contact has a chance to trigger the potential for it in a wide array of species who don't already have it, as various neural pathways are re-wired by familiarity with a using individuals thought processes.
Back with tech stuff in a moment here.
>>47732846
>>47733008
Starship combat is on the realistic side. Modern ships engage each other at lightsecond ranges with lasers, particle beams, and the like. A lot of human factions favor 'smart' railguns firing bundles that flechette apart en-route to the target.Sometimes including supplemental gravity charges to allow the bundle some degree of course correction en-route. It's unlikely more than one of said flechettes will actually hit another ship, but when they're moving at appreciable fractions of C, that's still going to hurt. Missiles are also common. Most using 'casaba' warheads as theorized back in the seventies. Using a fission warhead and material shenanigans to plasmify a copper plate into a bolt of plasma. Since actually hitting a maneuvering ship with a single contact warhead is more or less impossible. Newer heads use battery-fed lasers to fuse hydrogen pellets to similar effect, and research is ongoing on how to make bomb-pumped lasers work.
Primary propulsion is gravity 'blades' like you see on these guys here. project a sort of stressed gravity field the ship then falls into/out of at pretty impressive acceleration. (RC will chime in after me with numbers. He's my numbers guy)
>>47732846
>>47733008
Like durendal said, it wasn't so much that the blockade let technology advanced as much as it reset a lot of status quos on Earth. A lot of the major cultural shift happens during the post-blockade rebuilding.
For example, the US never reforms as it once was. The "United States is basically the 13 original colonies and the midwest. The rest of the old US splits off into about 5 other countries, which eventually start developing their own local cultures.
The decade or so of the blockade also helped let Luna, Mars and the belters lay down their early cultural roots, which would grow more distinct in the time to come.
>Definitely can see some lawlessness in the outer system. Normal for many solar systems I think, though there may as well be concentrated pushes to get pirates out of there.
You don't see a ton of piracy in heavily established systems. But the further you go out from the coreworlds, and the less developed a system is, the more likely that sort of thing becomes an issue.
>Modern ships engage each other at lightsecond ranges with lasers, particle beams, and the like
1 light-second or less for railguns. Muzzle velocities tend to fall between .15 - .20c depending on tech. Lasers can hit out to 2-3 light-seconds, but each hit isn't as individually powerful. Missiles can be fired from even further out, and while much easier to intercept or spoof, hit like a truck if they make it through.
>plasmify a copper plate into a bolt of plasma
Probably not actually copper. But similar principle to modern HEAT munitions. I don't actually know what an ideal material would be though.
I want to say the average legacy destroyer (smallish, fast warships) can maintain accelerations of around 100g (980m/s per second) on average. Cruisers, battlecruisers and capital ships are predictably less nimble.
>>47732846
Advances in material science make things like space elevators, diamond-glaze armor, and fabric that can stop small caliber rounds from penetrating a reality, among all sorts of other business. Computer tech allows for very early AGIs and circuitry compact enough to automate just about anything. Augmented reality is pretty pervasive, and medical science is up to where getting entoptic implants to see it is fairly routine for professionals that need that sort of thing.
Nanotechnology remains limited to operation within specially contained environments. Freestanding nanotech remains an incredibly elusive goal. Even getting it to work in people outside of specially equipped nano-surgical theaters has been a non-starter.
Long distance comms takes the form of tachyon radio. The most common FTL is a 'tachyon cloak' that shrouds the ship in a field of the same, causing the space so shielded from the rest of the universe to traveol like one big particle pulse. (Also works with photons, often used to get fighters around since it's less energy intensive) Some factions still prefer good ol' alcubierre drives though. Both have their pros and cons.
Gravity plating and inertial compensators are a thing. Large scale space habs still tend to spin though, since that's a helluva lot cheaper than running maintenance on thousands upon thousands of gravity plates. Plates can be used motively at low velocities, often to lift hover vehicles or for craft VTOL applications. the blade/spike configuration is the go-to when you want shit to haul ass though.
>>47733286
>>47733275
>>47733101
Brothers, we really do need to make this its own thread when this dies, hahaha.
>>47733286
>Augmented reality is pretty pervasive
While no true, freestanding holograms exist, augmented reality is everywhere and basically gives the same effect as long as you're wearing the glasses. AR is the iPhone of it's day, linked up to all manner of other personal devices and the internet.
>and medical science is up to where getting entoptic implants to see it is fairly routine for professionals that need that sort of thing
Cybernetic limbs are also very much a thing too. Typically only used for prosthetic purposes, although it depends where you go. The residents of Eclipse (the crazy slavic-koreans that they are) actually put sockets in their backs to mount doctor octopus robo-tentacles to, among other things.
>Nanotechnology remains limited to operation within specially contained environments. Freestanding nanotech remains an incredibly elusive goal. Even getting it to work in people outside of specially equipped nano-surgical theaters has been a non-starter.
Targeted viral agents are among the primary medical tools around. Some of the strains of medical viruses have been cultivated for centuries now, and you can tweak them to do all kinds of useful things. Nanomachines would be ideal, but engineered viruses can do similar things, albeit with less fine control.
>Long distance comms takes the form of tachyon radio
Rough shorthand, a tachyon radio is about twice as fast as a ship would be. So, it takes about half a month to beam a tachyon message across 300 lightyears. However, the receiving end requires huge collector arrays, and complex computing to decompress the message into a readable state.
>(Also works with photons, often used to get fighters around since it's less energy intensive)
You can mount photon cloaks on damned near anything with a reactor (fighters use micro-reactors). Typically ships will use photon cloaks for longer intrasystem hops, since tachyon cloaks do not work inside a star's gravity well.
>>47733484
> >Long distance comms takes the form of tachyon radio
>Rough shorthand, a tachyon radio is about twice as fast as a ship would be. So, it takes about half a month to beam a tachyon message across 300 lightyears. However, the receiving end requires huge collector arrays, and complex computing to decompress the message into a readable state.
Perhaps important to note that the resources required to receive and decompress data of this sort increase with the range its sent. While a network of receivers thousands of kilometers wide and a small bank of supercomputers is needed to retrieve long-range interstellar messages, ships in combat use tach-radio equipped drones as their primary means of rangefinding and terminal guidance. Needless to say, drone/anti-drone measures are a constantly evolving science in space warfare.
>>47733534
>ships in combat use tach-radio equipped drones as their primary means of rangefinding and terminal guidance
Yeah, tach-radio drones were a real game changer. They effectively allow a ship to cheat around lightspeed time-lag in combat by getting the drone in close, and using its tach-radio to shoot back information faster than light.
I imagine the scope of that information is pretty limited, but it can give a pretty big edge if the other guy can't find the drone and kill it. Especially in long-range fights.
>>47733275
>I want to say the average legacy destroyer (smallish, fast warships) can maintain accelerations of around 100g (980m/s per second) on average. Cruisers, battlecruisers and capital ships are predictably less nimble.
How does the crew handle this?
>>47733608
Some kind of inertial dampening system. No idea about the actual mechanics, but it is long-established tech. The efficiency of the dampener is actually the limiting factor on ship speed, traditionally. Acceleration rates have creeped higher and higher as better dampeners have come out.
You can actually fit small-scale ones on atmospheric aircraft (although I'm pretty sure they're huge power hogs) to allow for some pretty crazy maneuvers. For once it's the plane's endurance and not the pilot's that is the limiting factor.
>>47733608 See >>47733286
gravity deck plating acts as an inertial dampener. (I assume it feeds into the blade somehow to match/invert the effects.)
That said, as one would expect, losing plating on a ship doing maneuvers does result in a crew of jell-o.
>>47733663
>You can actually fit small-scale ones on atmospheric aircraft (although I'm pretty sure they're huge power hogs) to allow for some pretty crazy maneuvers. For once it's the plane's endurance and not the pilot's that is the limiting factor.
In a fighter (atmospheric or otherwise) you only have to dampen the acceleration for a pilot sitting in a very specific, small area.
On a spaceship you have all kinds of people walking around and doing other things, so you'd have to exert that dampening field almost everywhere in the ship.
>>47733921
While true, this is another of those things that's largely hand waved because it's cool.
My general opinion is that, as long as the generalities are close enough that characters have to act realistically, the specifics of why anything really works aren't super important.
In a setting that has giant elves, I feel like stepping back and trying to make sure the tech is 100% viable is kinda wasted effort.
>>47733421
Right, we're over bump. I may do so tomorrow, maaaybe later in the week, as I may be busy tomorrow.
Anyone who was interesting in keeping up/contributing can get ahold of me at [email protected]
Suggestions for how to get a thread about setting going for next time?
>>47734300
Just post it as Legacy General or something and see who gives a damn. Use your name(s) and put a brief blurb. If it attracts people, it'll do so. All you need to do. It might attract bullshit too but that's just the way of 4chan.
Should probably ask /k/ but what calliber would the be most balanced to fight 40ft elves? (balanced as in damage/recoil/weight).
I'm guessing anything smaller than 5.45x39 mm would be "just a prank girl i'm not trying to kill you or anything"
>>47734300
>Suggestions for how to get a thread about setting going for next time?
Let things lie low for a week or two.
In the thread OP post all the setting docs and a short-ish blurb about the setting. The sort of things you'd put on the back of a hardcover sourcebook to get people interested.
Then pose a question or topic of discussion to get things rolling. Just starting a general thread with no direction will probably lead to shitposting, something this thread was almost miraculously absent of.
>>47734405
Alright. Was just wondering if any particular topics might pique more interest.
>>47734466
Will do. I'll try to use that time to expand on said setting docs as best I can. And figure out that blurb. Man I'm bad at blurbs. Can probably go study the ones from other setting generals though.
Much obliged for the advice.
>>47734445
I'm not /k/ but thats gonna come down to powderload as well and not purely bullet size. You could shoot a grain of sand at enough speed to leave 40ft elf fist sized holes in them if you so desired. Take a modern .50 and make it a nice hollow point and you got a bullet that will fuck up their soft tissue. 20-40mm underslung grenades would get nasty real quick cause you could straight kneecap them with the little ones and 40mm would take off hands and shins. Even a .45 would make them blind with their eyes being such big targets. Again .50 AP rounds would easily punch holes in their skull. Man portability you'd have 5-8 round rifles that could, with care, easily kill them and we already have piss tons of vehicle portable .50 cal guns. Apc's shell out 20mm rounds all the time as well. Thats not even getting into BRRT guns like the 30mm GAU-8.
Effective armor would also be way to much weight for them to effectively wear as well and any mass dampening they employed to stop that issue would only be used to shoot more effective munitions at usually unattainable speeds.
>>47734523
I think you said earlier you were interested in adding some kind of crunch to the setting, even if it was piggybacked onto an existing system. That might be a good topic for the next thread.
>>47734641
Good idea. I got bored and half-assed statted somethings in Eclipse Phase awhile back, but a good topic to start with indeed.
Going to go crash into a bed now. Look forward to the next go-round.
