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>>47541664
First for the First

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>>47541679
Second for the Third

>>47541681
I assembled a spartan for a friend, I share the anger.

The rapier tracks are... too long. Too long and the only option would be to cut into some of the details or have wavy tracks.

4th for the 4th

>>47541801
>no pic
Report for decimation.

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>>47541815
BEEP BOOP PAPA PERT PLEASE TRY TO HAVE FUN ONCE IN A WHILE

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>>47542120
O-OK...

>>47542170
>>47542120
Wohoho!

Nice work, man!

>>47542120
>>47542170
RIDE THE IRONRAVE

>>47542170
THEY BREED.
Alright Iron-Circle anon which ones fucked?

Just realized that SA Russes aren't heavy.

Also that I wish about half the options for the strike squadron and assault squadron were switched.

Being able to get the short ranged demolisher cannon or even executioner cannon close through outflanking and/or 1 turn of Fast would be awesome. Giving either of those blasts +1Bs isn't that great.

Giving +1BS to the single shot anti-armor guns would be great, but those same guns have enough range that fast/outflank doesn't seem that great.

Or at least it seems that way to me.

>>47543560
Volkite gun is cool
>5 str 7 twin-linked shots (each)
>6 str 6 shots (hull and pintle multilaser)
>BS 4

>>47543560
I found it dumb the fact the had no options for sponsons, and that was because they weren't going to be able to shoot their stuff anyway due to not being heavy vehicles.

I have almost 50 beakies now. If I paint them as Iron Warriors, how badly will I be decimated by ferrumfags?

>>47543889
How about you give them a camo pattern instead of plain IW scheme?

>>47543857
I don't mind that on the strike squadron, because they can become fast and outflank, and a FA choice. Not being heavy fits the idea of a more mobile version of the Russ. Then losing sponsons fits that too.

With you on the Assault Squadron though. An extra hull point is a thing, but 40 pts more and you get a Malcador in the same slot.

If I wanted to make a 2500 point list with a Mastodon what would I put in it to make it almost work as a transport. It feels like its too expensive points wise for just being 2 spartans glued together.

>>47543889

we won't decimate you, that be waste of perfectly good men, instead we will, for the rest of your life, assign you to the first wave

>>47543912
That is an interesting prospect, but then they wouldn't fit in with the rest of my Iron Warriors. I'd rather stick to what I have for now and not diverge too much so I can play larger games with a consistent force.

It would also be an utter pain to paint consistent and good-looking camo across dozens of guys.

>>47543965
Considering how I'm just about the only full-on traitor in my group of like ten people that isn't anything new. I just hope the second wave gets here soon.

>>47544001
>but then they wouldn't fit in with the rest of my Iron Warriors
Because Iron Warriors were all about MKVI armour yeah?

>>47543950
I can't remember the LoW rules of the top of my head but isn't it less than 25% of your army total? Mastodons are 700 points base which requires 2800 points at least.

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>>47544010

>>47544078
>Speculation at the time suggest that a faction amongst the Primarchs and Legion commanders, led by Perturabo, intended this assignment to an under-strength Legion to be the death-knell of the Mark VI armour, leading to its replacement by a sturdier design.

>>47543889
This might be the one time that making them Alpha Legion dressed up as Iron Warriors makes sense.

>>47544184
Yes, but Pert is a kook and beakies are the OGs.

>>47544078
Now that's what I call a power squat.

>>47544050
Use the Leviathan detachment, I think you can bring them at any size then.

>>47541781
I did have to cut my tracks. They look a little iffy, but I just say the WE don't have much care for vehicle maintenance anymore.

So I started reading the novels and holy shit there's a lot of them. I'm halfway through the third one and so far they're direct sequels to one another where one leads into the next with the same cast. When do the books become more self-contained?

>>47544184
That was decades before the Heresy. Post-Heresy, you take what you can steal to deny it to the enemy. Especially if you're not expecting reinforcement or repair anytime soon.

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>>47545049
Not the most up to date, but useful to keeping relative track of everything. Almost every story has associated short stories or novellas that either link novels together or give background to the events involved, similar to comic book series.

>>47545138
Should've specified, every colored bar is a novel, every colored oval is a short story, novella, or audio, the number next to each is the publishing order and the letters were limited edition books listed in the bottom right. Blue boxes are just particular events with the legions involved on each. It also includes all of the events listed in FW books.

would anyone think "sons of horus" if I painted my Knights in a dark turquoise (P3 Coal Black) edged in a very pale, silvery gold?

>>47545160

thanks man

>>47545049
The next book (Flight of the Eisenstein - I think it's the 4th book) is only a little different. Half of it runs parallel to Galaxy in Flames, and some of the same characters are involved. It's a popular book, though personally I thought it was pretty skippable.

Fulgrim diverges more. It still has a lot of moments that run parallel to the other books by necessity, since there was a lot going on at the time. You might see a familiar character or two, but it doesn't feel like a sequel or a repeat. I really liked it.

The subsequent books are off on their own. Legion and Betrayer are self-contained. Descent of Angels is more of a Great Crusade story. A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns go together, and you should know at least the basics before reading Scars (which itself leads into Path of Heaven - the White Scars books are quite good). First Heretic is self-contained and significant. Know No Fear is good, if rushed at the end.

A lot of the other books are a little weird, with bizarre plots designed to get primarchs fighting each other and make filler books sound interesting, imo. Unless you have a particular legion in mind, the ones above are my recommendations. Plus Vengeful Spirit, maybe, and the short story anthologies.

>>47545265

Thanks, think I'll skip ahead to the Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns after I finish Galaxy in Flames, those guys were always my favourite legion fluffwise.

>>47545049
You don't know the half of it. I believe there were going to be only nine novels, but someone thought it was a good idea to create a grimdark future where there is only novels, short stories, anthologies, and novellas.

>>47545344

That sounds like typical GW to me though.

>>47545344
This was under a management that no longer exists according to the current authors. You won't see anymore gluts of individually sold short stories and all the ones that are currently out are being condensed into anthologies. The next novel after Angels of Caliban will consist of the Alpha Legion's attack on the Sol system and the Imperial Fists working to slow them.

>>47545385
>>47545454
Have we exhausted all possible ways to divine the future? How many authors must toil to scratch their visions onto hardback novels so that we might catch a glimpse of hope? Or are we to suffer only the pangs of despair as yet more horror is let loose on Black Library's online store? Or does the seeking itself give birth to more insanity than man can cope?

The Dark Future Beckons!

Fear the unknown!

In all seriousness I do feel rused here.

>>47545454
Does that put us near the end, then? The Siege of Terra was only 55 days (unless it gets retconned by multiplying by 10, like the number of marines each legion had).

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>>47545606

Yes anon, soon the HH series will be complete.

Then GW will have us back even further in time to the Unification Wars, with its own tabletop, books and short stories.

>>47545650
Mr. Bones, please no. This mild ride is too much like your wild one. Take the BLfags who're going to be disappointed when the series ends, and spare us please.

Have anyone used or faced the Land Raider Achilles? If so, how did it do in combat and as a transport? Is it a viable option, but more importantly, is it a fun option?
My plan is putting a Close combat Preator with 5 reavers with melee upgrades in it.

>>47545538
You can look up the notes from the last Horus Heresy Weekender yourself. After Angels of Caliban, we start The Gauntlet, where all of the traitors are in Segmentum Solar, the Alpha Legion infiltrators obviously reaching the Sol system first.

Should I get an outrider squad or just another squad of jetbikes?

Jetbikes only being 5 points more expensive a piece really makes outriders unappealing

>>47545730
My tin foiled mk4 helmet has gotten the better of me, Anon.

>>47545730
>>47545791
To be fair, the early reviews are saying Angels of Caliban isn't great. Nowhere close to the shit that was Deathfire, but typical Thorpe mediocre.

>>47545780
5 ppm extra for 2+ and lolterrain? I don't run either, but I'd say go for it, even though jetbikes are 45 points more expensive for the initial squad.

>>47545650

If they did a really dense Unification war book I'd probably buy it

>Proto imperial army/Jovian void troops
>Techno barbarians
>Spess mahreens with volkites out the ass
>thunder warriors comin in like a wrecking ball

yes please

>>47545855
Would anyone take this series seriously if BL pumped out Deathfire or worse quality books?

>>47546145
Kept on pumping out I meant to say.

>>47546145
I would say Kyme is the only one who consistently writes shit. Thorpe's aren't great (though the Corax novellas are pretty awesome) and McNeil's done some real shit, but Kyme is the only one that I can say that everything he's added to the series has been awful.

>>47546392
What's more enjoyable? SyFy original movies, or Kyme's work?

>>47546714
You don't like SyFy channel movies? The fuck is wrong with you!? The titles alone make them awesome!

>>47546867
Anon, I love SyFy original movies. Call me a sucker for any horror movie, or insult my taste in movies but I love those movies. I think my favorite was the Mothman movie.

I also like movies that come on Chiller. Come to think about it they made a movie about Mortarion.

>>47546904
you can love them, just don't try to claim they are well made.

I love me some bad horror movies. In fact I prefer them to many genres of good horror movies, but I admit they are bad.

>>47547058
>you can love them, just don't try to claim they are well made.
>I love me some bad horror movies. In fact I prefer them to many genres of good horror movies, but I admit they are bad
Yeah I know they're most likely made by throwing darts at animals and words like mega or zombie. It's what gets me. Also the movie was called Reeker.

>>47546392

What? So Giant Flamethrowers taking out the Life Eater wasn't cool?

>>47545606

Actually, it was longer. The Siege Started on 213.014 and ends on 757.014 (the day of the Emperor's Ascension), so 198 days, give or take.

>>47547158
No wonder Papa Sang was tired.

>>47541781

Better too long tracks than not enough tracks

>>47547158
I'm a little embarassed to say it took me until this post to realize how the fuck the Imperial calendar works.

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Speaking of Mariana III I've decided to expand on it more. Not every fish is going to be psychic, and there's more than just Earth fish on there because it's not like a bunch aliens stole two of every fish on Earth and put them on the planet. The oceans are a fusion of Subnatica on acid, Fabio if Fabio was a grimdark ocean filled with grimdark things, whatever God rejected from Jesus's fish drawings, and flat out nightmares. The Sharks are just what the planet's best remembered for as the Sharks are just obnoxious idiots who scream into your minds that they're sharks and suck their dicks. Well the ones with the level of psychic power to do so.

Deeper into the oceans is when this freaky world gets freakier. The stuff down there becomes more psychic, more sentient, and more malicious minus the Dolphins. The original colonists found that out on day one. Just how malicious? As malicious as freaky psychic ocean life who enjoys feasting upon terror and death can get. Surpringly the stuff down there enjoys terrorizing the population enough that if anything from outside the planet threatens to murder every nerd on the planet they'll turn their psychic powers on them. They can't terrorize scientists if there is no scientists alive.

As for how the scientists themselves govern themselves it's a Meritocracy. What kind of Imperial Army would these guys play out as anyway?

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>>47541702
>Repeatedly clone your dead brother to get him to join your side

>he keeps giving you the same reply

>>47548423

Solar Auxilia perhaps? Their Void Suits work underwater, and the FW designers themselves said they were in part based on Diving Suits.

The 760th Solar Auxilia 'Mariana Shellbacks' or something similar.

>>47548622
One Anon did say he wanted to make a SA from my world. I like that name, Anon. As for the who in the Imperium found it first it was a detachment of Luna Wolves who got sent there due to Warp hijinks and Magnus. They found a fleet of Eldar corsairs orbiting the planet. The Eldar shot first, and were eventually driven away. The Moon Wolves left to repair their ships, and Magnus went to bring the Emperor's light to Mariana III.

>>47545780
What you want to use them for.
Normal bikers can pack power weapons for more punchy. Also twin linked special weapons more reliable than not twin linked heavies.
Jetbike faster and out range, and have 2+.
Want choppy jet bikes take command squad.

In a 2000 point game as Imperial Fists, are 2 x 10 Veteran Squads fine, or do I desperately need the extra bodies and go 2 x 20 Tactical Squads instead?

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As we all know, vindicators are love and vindicators are life, but how many Laser Destroyers is too many?

I'm trying to deal with tanks but I play Night Lords.

>>47549162
When you have more laser destroyer than Vindicator.

Hmmm.... I want to get into 30k, but I can't decide between Iron Hands, or Iron Warriors.

On one hand, Iron Warriors have one of the coolest comor schemes with their hazard stripes, and Iron Hands are one of my favorite chapters/legions alongside Imperial Fists lore-wise, but my problem with Iron Warriors is that I think it'd be hard to paint the yellow hazard striped over black, correct? And with the Iron Hands, I just don't want to paint tons of black all the time.

Though, I've heard their pre-heresy color scheme was different, and that there are color variations for all the legions in 30k, correct?

Also, how good are their legion rules?

Blood Angels or World Eaters? I love melee, tactics too.

>>47549829

A connoisseur of Iron I take it? Let's start with Legion rules.

Both Iron Hands and Iron Warriors have quite solid rules, but be aware that 30k tends to be more balanced than regular 40k and many players look down on autistic over-competitiveness. If you absolutely must know, however, I'd give the Iron Hands a slight edge because you really can't go wrong with inbuilt super-toughness on your infantry and vehicles.

Both Legions are quite shooty, though Hands have better tanks/dreadnoughts while Warriors have vastly superior artillery. Hands infantry is tankier, while Warriors infantry is more expendable and shootier.

Storm Walkers and Corpse Grinders had the same colour schemes as their future incarnations, unfortunately, so no respite there.

That said, you can always make a Shattered Legion force including the two Legions, or go with an Allied detachment. No need to limit yourself. Even colour-scheme wise, you can innovate so long as you justify it reasonably (ie. Mid-heresy ragtag force, early Great Crusade weirdness).

>>47549829
Though, I'm also thinking about World Eaters or Word Bearers, as I like their paint schemes, really.

>>47549829
Both have good rules, but IH are top tier. Hands have amazing models pre-heresy, and their color scheme can be modified pretty easily. Lots of the FW IH have sort of a greasy dark-grey thing going on, which is much more interesting. I would definitely encourage someone who likes Hands to start HH with them, they're very rewarding and a studio darling so they get lots of good shit

I've got some Death Guard now, but it's only two tactical squads and the HQ's from B@C. What do I add next? I want that slow, immovable force that can take hits while being able to deliver a lot of firepower. Probably use The Reaping for RoW

>>47550130
Alright, thanks mate! Though, I was asking about the rules because I wanted to know how useful they were, but it's good to know that they're both good. I think out of the two I'd go Iron Hands. I do have a fondness for dreadnoughts.

>>47550159
Good to know, thanks mate!

It's a shame about the color schemes, as if I use them in 40k, I'd rather paint a successor then the real deal, but I suppose I can get over that.

Now for my other questions:
>>47550138
How are the Word Bearers and World Eaters? I'm more asking this because their color schemes interest me, and I think it'd be fun painting the runes and such in the Word Bearers armor.

Also, I'm very confused on what to do with the BaC set that I want to get to start up my 30k army. One one hand, I could use it as a starting point for a full army. One the other hand, I could paint them as their respective chapters and play the game that it comes with with friends. Unless the rules are generalized, and don't account for legion rules, in which case I could use any two legions I wanted, correct?

>>47550290
>Word Bearers and World Eaters
Both are lower-tier, but the benefit of most armies being out of the same book means the differences are only as significant as you let them be. I've played downright mean armies of both.

Birthday is coming up. Can someone convince me that I should get a Spartan instead of a Dreadclaw? So far I see the Dreadclaw as better because a) cheaper points wise b) cheaper money wise c) less common D) I like the idea of Sigismund getting shat out of a flying anus.

>>47547954
just when you thought facebook memes couldn't get any worse

>>47550357
>I like the idea of Sigismund getting shat out of a flying anus.
Fuck spartans, this is gold

>>47550330
Ah, I see.

Honestly, I feel like I'm going to go with Word Bearers, as their color scheme and being able to paint the runes and inscriptions on their armor looks like it'd be fun.

Though now I have two questions.

Can I make a Word Bearers army from the Betrayal at Calth box, or would I need more units/models to build one, and would an army from it be any good?

Should I make some of the models from the BaC box Ultramarines so I'd be able to play the game? Or are they not needed for the game itself?

>>47551034
Honestly the BaC box is a pretty decent start, especially since WB upgrades are already mk iv so you can mix and match but still get a cohesive look. The BaC box itself isn't enough points for more than a very basic army; you could get two for more points but I feel like it has significantly diminishing returns. Cataphractii are fine, regular marines are good but very few people need 60, Contemptors are fine but the BaC one needs some work to not look retarded. I'd advise one box, plus a FW order to get some extras, as a good starter army. It's really not a big deal to have the two sides not be Ultras and Word Bearers as long as you can distinguish them.

>>47548484
Wonder of he's still doing it? Probably not.

>>47551173
He probably stopped after the 60th try.

>>47551097
Alright, I understand and thanks for the advice!

As for the Ultramarines vs. Word Bearers aspect of the game, that's just my autism showing, really. I'll probably end up getting a second box just to play the game, as well as supplement the Word Bearers army I'll be building up.

>>47551543
Huh, just found out about this.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Word-Bearers-Task-Force

It even comes with BaC! Though, I need to figure out how much it'd cost in US$ as well as the shipping fees.

>>47545780

Jetbikes should be used at range, outriders close up with power weapons. Different roles, so think about what your army needs more of. Outriders are also better for command squad upgrades.

>>47549829
Iron Warriors haven't really been presented as having had a different color scheme. In book 3 they get a little more variety than in their previous 40k appearances, but it's also the first time they've been looked at in this much detail. It's fundamentally the same scheme. And since the yellow is always portrayed as dull, it's easier to paint. I'd paint brown over the main coat, then yellow over that, then dulled black (dark gray) stripes over the yellow. Then a dusty drybrush.

Iron Hands are shown as very dark gunmetal instead of black... probably because they'd otherwise look just like Raven Guard rather than because they actually changed colors. Their vehicles look like they have a lot of black wash over dark metallic gray.

>>47551770
devil's advocate post. it'll probably cost you around $350 bucks before shipping, it would be cheaper to buy two BaC boxes and then use the leftover money to buy cooler Forge World stuff.

>>47551770
>>47552026
I'd suggest just getting one or two of the head and chest sets and spreading them out over your forces

>>47551770
You really don't need as many upgrade parts as they give you in that set.

>>47546024
>Spess mahreens with volkites out the ass
TBF this just needs a single RoW really.
>Crusade Army List as normal
>Replace all bolters with volkite chargers, bolt pistols with volkite serpentas
>No terminators
>Lose access to legion special units
Probably some other things I'm missing but that's most of it.

>>47548484
>Fulgrim literally has dozens of Primarch kills
I mean I guess killing an unarmed Manus is easy as far as killing primarchs go but he wins even without including the Ferrus clones. Also maybe he has hundreds of primarch kills, depends how long he spent cloning and killing Ferrus.

>>47552223
clones of primarchs aren't nearly as powerful as the original. they're basically just the meat without the superpowers the Emperor gave them. Abaddon killed a clone of Horus by jamming the talon in its heart

Is it legal to take Questoris Knights ad an allied detachment for a loyal Legion? I can't seem to find the rule and I like being legal.

>>47553138
The books have rules to it.

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>>47551097
>>47551034
The best thing about Word Bearers is the more corrupt/further along the heresy you base your force off the more creative licence you can take with their models. I have started to make a Word Bearers force combining my spare Calth parts with the super common and super fucken cheap 40k dark vengeance set to represent veteran squads with dark channeling buffs on them.

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>>47554198
and a painted one as well. I have 20 of these assembled now and with the bits I have chopped off the dark vengeance guys I will put them on a 20man tac squad of Calth marines to make them look a bit more evil too.

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>>47554198
>>47554209
I love it.

But those guys are super demonic.

Why not fluff them as being from Zardu Layaks Unspeaking Chapter?

He in particular and thus his followers too, were far far advanced down the daemon rabbit hole.

So much in fact that Erebus and Kor Phaeron felt threatened by him and the favour Lorgar bestowed upon him.

I just like your work and have seen them before, if you don't have decided upon a chapter name yet I think it might fit.

>>47549988
>tactics too
Blood Angels

>>47554299
Kek.

Loyalist WE can pull off some nice stuff with Old White Eyes and stupid sexy Haas though.

>>47550130
>many players look down on autistic over-competitiveness.
Haha
No
I don't know where you play, but round here it's the exact same combination of flufffags, "fun"listers and 2srs tourneylisters as 40k

>>47554287
Funny you should mention it I purchased Zardu and he will be the big bad leading them!

>>47554446
Fuck yeah.

Zardu is amazing.

I don't know shit about what psychic powers to use but would probably go for Pyromancy myself as I really like the Ashen Circle.

>>47549162
Honestly one of the better options you have, especially now that you can pair them and so still have slots left for other shit.

>>47554542
Summon Daemons all day every day

>>47544078
>Sturdier design
>Mk3 but without downsides, and being easily producable

Sweet baby jesus yes.

>>47554571
Well, also ok.

>>47550357
The Spartan is only better if you want >10 guys (or >5 Terminators). Otherwise the Dreadclaw is the way to go for combat delivery.Practically guarantees a T2 assault and doesn't even really need to survive the turn it drops as long as you drop close to something.Also it can jink. I myself run both, sometimes 2 Dreadclaws.

>>47554685
The only downside is the risk of deep strike mishaps, making it impractical for expensive deathstars that you really don't want to lose to bad luck.

>>47554707
True, but the best part about it being a flyer is you can drop it somewhere relatively safe and flat out 24" to where you really want it.

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What is the purpose of both of these existing?
If I were to get one, should I get an Armoured Proteus to match my MkIIb Land Raiders or a regular Proteus to match my Deimos hulls/Spartan/Sicaran?

So, Angels of Caliban is out thanks to London Comic-Con. And it's not good.

Zahariel is working for the Oroborous Daemon at the heart of Caliban and is the source of all the Chaos Taint infecting the Fallen Angels. Even sets up a shooting war between Corswain's Dark Angels and Luther's Dark Angels when the former come to Caliban to pick up some more troops to fight Typhon. Also Typhon and Luther are old buddies from when they were both in the Crusade. And guess who shows up over Caliban at the end?

Lion fucks up Curze, breaks his back (He literally does to Curze what Russ did to Magnus) and then chains him up to bring him to Macrgagge for trial. Then during the trial Curze reveals that the Lion used a Phosphex orbital bombardment on Macragge while hunting down Curze, and boy o boy is Guilliman pissed at having chunks of his home world rendered uninhabitable, completely derailing the trial and letting Curze live a little longer (as he must).

>>47554825
Armoured for IW and/or armoured ceramite.

No idea why there are two, but why not use it.

>>47554825
The "normal" version doesn't have the heavy bolter up front either, fwiw.

Regular is more old school.

>>47554582
>MkVI
>sturdier than MkIII
>no downsides

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Beep Boop memes aside, Iron Circle do look incredibly cool
So here's my new list featuring them, going for a WW1 kinda vibe, even considering having them all wear krieg-esque trench coats over their power armour. And i'm not keen on painting/using vehicles so fuck em

RoW: Ironfire

LoW
Perturabo
495 pts
Iron Circle x4
820 pts

HQ
Librarian
Mastery Level 2, Tartaros Terminator Armour, Force Stave, Melta Bombs
200 pts

Elite
Quad Mortar x3
120 pts

Contemptor Dreadnought x2
X2 CCW, x2 Graviton Cannons
410

Troops
Breacher Squad
Melta Bombs
230 pts

Breacher Squad
Melta Bombs
230 pts

Breacher Squad
Melta Bombs
230 pts

Heavy Support

Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought
Atomantic Pravaise
220 pts

Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad x10
545 pts

Total: 3,500 pts

Tyrants deep strike near the deredeo once its in position

>>47554987
Librarians can't be your compulsory HQ.
Contemptors should have grav guns, not cannons.
Tyrants are pretty much the only Termies that want to footslog.

>>47554902
I think he is saying that he would have supported Perts initiative.

>>47555054
That's basically what Terminator armour is, though.

>>47552064

Shoulder pad upgrades are the best to give a soldier blob the identity of their legion. imo.

>>47555078
Not really, I imagine Pert would have loved Void Hardened armour without the reduced mobility.

>>47550243

Get yourself a whole hell of a lot of heavy weapons and try to fill out your troops choices, las cannons are super expensive but having one scoring squad with Durak Rask (who your gonna have because your running the reaping) isn't a bad idea to nope high priority targets

I went with a shit ton of missile launchers because I got a bunch for cheap, but going auto-cannon/volkites could also work, if you plan on really doubling down on shooting, by combining them with artillery/vindicators/laser destroyers/Doritos dreads

Also regular dreads can be your friend, cortus dreads are just as survivable to shooting and only lose 1 ws/bs for a 40 pt discount over normal contemptors, and with a kheres/volkite + heavy flamer they can make a daunting unit for assault units to get through, not because they're killy but because they're 1) cheap 2) belt out a lot of hurt in shooting and melee & 3) if they charge the dread they have to weather another turn of shooting from your heavy squads.

Termies can also do this but while the two unique ones are fucking amazeballs (to use the technical term) they're both very slow with the reaping and can't reach out and touch with their weapons unless they get a very expensive transport

Ow, and you can take a fortification with the Reaping too, so Durak and his homies get to chill inside a /comfy/ fortress while burning plebs to death and laughing at normies dying to poison gas like a bunch of fags I bet they don't even drink from the cups probably just from the cocks

2500 Alpha Memes, designed to be as fucky as possible, Autilon for flexible warlord trait, Damocles dropping bombs and messing with reserves, Augury Scanners all over the place to annoy Infiltrators. Usual plan is to infiltrate the tac and vet squads via Master of Ambush WT, drop pod assault the dreads in first turn to deal with heavy stuff while the infantry beat the softer stuff, mutable tactics will probably be Counter Attack since most of my army will be in charge range first turn. Using the voxes scattered about the place I can fairly reliably use the Damocles to take out any back field heavy units and AP2 ignores cover from the Leviathan can handle any terminators.

HQ 225pts
Autilon Skorr - 125pts

Damocles - 100pts

Troops 560pts
Tactical Squad x20 Marines, Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger - 280pts

Tactical Squad x20 Marines, Vexilla, Nuncio-Vox, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger - 280pts

Elites 925pts
x3 Apothecary, x3 Augury Scanner - 150pts

Contemptor-Cortus, Chainfist, DCCW, Drop Pod - 210pts

Cataphractii Squad, x2 Chainfists, Banestrikes, Dreadclaw - 315pts

Snpier Veterans, x10 Marines, Vexilla, Melta Bombs, Nuncio-Vox, Power Dagger - 250pts

Heavy Support 790pts
Deredeo, Aiolos - 220 pts

Heavy Support Squad, x6 Marines, Missile Launchers, Augury Scanner - 215pts

Leviathan, Grav-flux Dreadnought Talon, Drop Pod - 355pts

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I made something for you /HHG/

>>47555141
Sure. But it's not what the MkVI was. Perturabo was among the people who wanted to see the armour fail and get replaced with something sturdier.

>>47555727
Thats what I mean.

>>47555644
Well, no one is more killy than Sigismund who is not a Primarch.

>Emperor's Champion ftw.

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>>47555644
We never did figure out Sigismund's ultimate move. I was thinking something Rules of Nature like.

>>47555868
Good question, I have no idea about his deeper lore to make a nice fitting quote.

>>47555867
Isn't the Neman Reaver Killy himself, and you forgot Scoria.

>>47552389
Wasn't the last clone of Horus practically a perfect clone? Honestly fluffwise it wouldn't be that surprising if Chaos jacked Abaddon could kill a normal Horus in single combat. Chaos is a hell of a drug.

>>47555930
Ok, yes Scoria.

But can the Nemean truly compete?

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>>47550392

>>47556287
He can try, but Scoria and Siggy are the main competitors for the Horusmania championship belt.

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>>47554825
The left one is a transitionary model. The original was the one on the right, with the exposed lascannons sticking out. Existed both in old 40k (Rogue Trader era) and in old Epic, in the early ‘90s or something.

In the late ‘90s, 3rd edition Epic (Epic 40,000) released a new look for the Land Raider (see pic). Five years or so later, GW released the plastic 40k Land Raider, based on this Epic one (roughly) but with more modern sponsons. I think they called it Mk III to acknowledge the previous versions. Some people liked the older ones, so FW released resin parts to put onto the plastic kit to make a Land Raider that looked like the Epic 40,000 model. They called it the Mk IIb for some reason. I’m not sure anyone was calling them “Phobos” yet.

When the HH series started and the Proteus came out, FW felt it’d be easier to explain the evolution to the Phobos by making an in-between model by sticking the Mk IIb sponsons onto the Proteus. Some people had already been doing it with Epic models in the years before, because the Epic 40k model’s sponsons were separate parts. The really old Epic Proteuses had very little side detail, so it looks pretty good to cut the lascannons off and stick those sponsons on. And so the Armoured Proteus was born.

Just finished The Last Church and damn is the Emperor a neckwear. I mean, I agree with him, but he sounds like a teenage edgelord for most of it

>>47554832
I wonder who Epimetheus is then, if it isn't Zahariel? Cypher? Some random guy?

>>47555644
The fact that the guy's renown was great enough to grant him power to go on an eternal crusade is proof of his sheer awesomeness.
Seriously, he's just so damn good, without being bland or marie sue, it's q bliss.

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>>47557841
It could have been a good read, if not for the obvious interference of the author's personnal belief.

A read about Empy's personnal opinion is always interesting, but it's much better if it can be on his opinion on Mankind's manifest destiny rather than on some justification for the Horus Heresy that was hastily written 30 years ago, and had to be carried on since.

>>47557902
>Best duellist of all time
>A match for some primarchs
>Not mary sue

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>>47557841
>>47557937
You activated my trap card.
>>47557951
Shut it, Jago.

>>47557951
>Royally fucking up the defense of Mars

Send someone like Sicarius (I know he's not in 30k but you know what I mean) and the dude would have clapped everything in 2 days and found the remnants of all the STCs hidden in a drawer.

Plus he technically not the best. Mechanically maybe. But fluff-wise, other captains like Sevatar, Amit, Raldoron, Abaddon or even Kharn, were considered as good as him.

>>47556345
>>>/reddit/

>>47554987
>>47555043
Shet, forgot about that
Here's a somewhat updated list

RoW: Ironfire

LoW
Perturabo
495 pts
Iron Circle x4
820 pts

HQ
Master of Signals
Cataprattchi Terminator Armour, Melta Bombs
100 pts


Elite

Quad Mortar x3
120 pts

Contemptor Dreadnought x2
X2 CCW, x2 Graviton Guns
410

Troops

Tactical Squad x15
Melta Bombs, x15 Additional Chainswords
235 pts

Tactical Squad x15
Melta Bombs, x15 Additional Chainswords
235 pts

Heavy Support

Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought
Atomantic Pravaise
220 pts

Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad x10
545 pts

Basilisk x2
280 pts

Total: 3,460 pts

MoS goes with Tyrants, 40 extra points to spare

>>47558298
Unless there's been a recent faq then Master of signal can't be your HQ either

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>>47558364
...welp back to the book and calculator

>>47558387
Siege breaker maybe? Give the Tyrants tank hunters.

>tfw you don't care much for IW but riding the Ironfire sounds bad ass as fuck

Is it worth giving 10 man Tactical Squads in Rhinos extra CCWs and pimping out the Sergeant, or are they just a troop tax?

>>47558613
Nah they're a tax and will get mulched in cc anyway. Maybe a combi melta or Flamer and melta bombs only

>>47547306
That sounds like an Iron Warrior proverb.

>>47554987
I fucking love it! Go for it!

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>>47557770
We need pic related.

I think a big problem with the proteus and phobos is that proteus is imitating the MkI land raider, but there was not different models, just marks. They should have kept proteus as MkI, MkIIb as the FW land raider, your pic could have been the MkIIa (so basically a MkIIb, but with the proteus style tracks and other bits), while the GW plastic model is the MkIII. This would have worked just fine without having to resort to differentiating between two models, the Proteus and Phobos.

Same with the rhino. Why differentiate between two hulls (Mars and Deimos), when you could have had the old rhino as the MkI, the plastic GW is MkIIc and anywhere in between you could ha stuck the Deimos. Maybe as MkIIa or b?

What are good books to read about the death guard, especially pre-nurgle? They seemed cool in flight of the einsenstein, with their dry, sardonic humour that wasn't quite as bitter as the the iron warriors, so would like to read more. Is there much else with them in before typhon pulls his bullshit?

>>47559084
I’m not following. As far as I can tell, the Proteus IS the Mk I, just with more detailing now that models are better.

Which “FW Land Raider” are you referring to? They make all of them other than the Mk III. If you mean “Armored Proteus”, let’s call that Mk Ib. Both Proteus versions have tall tracks that stick up above the hull, and (more importantly) they don’t have a front door.

I think it’s weird that the plastic one is Mk III. imo, the Epic 40k model should be Mk IIa, and the plastic model Mk IIb. They’re basically the same model (Phobos) except for the sponsons and minor changes around the assault ramp.

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>>47558723

>>47559124
Nah not really unfortunately, the next time they show up in force they're already consorting with daemons.

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>>47559215
The MkIIb and the GW land raider are Phobos land raiders. Different marks of the Phobos pattern. MkIIb Phobos and MkIII Phobos.

Proteus can't be MkI Phobos, because it's a Proteus. I don't even remember any piece of fluff referring to it as MkI of the MkIIb and MkIII lineage.

>the plastic model Mk IIb

Pic related is the MkIIb land raider.

>>47558207
>>>/reddit/

>>47558600

I don't much care for the approach FW have taken with the IW, but god damn whoever made that RoW deserves a gold fucking star

>>47558613

Legion troops overall are kind of shit, but I mean if you have to take them and expect them to assaulted at some point you might as well pimp them out a little unless your concerned with being uber points efficient

>>47559353
I don't see what's wrong with Mk I being Proteus and Mk II-III being Phobos.

Or... maybe Mk I means no assault ramp and Mk II-III means assault ramp, and both come in different patterns that are functionally the same but differ in styling. And it's just due to model release limitations that the only Mk I we've seen is Proteus-pattern and the only Mk II-IIIs we've seen are Phobos-pattern.

>>47558613
Artificer Armor on the sarge is always good at a mere 10 points. It'll piss off power sword users and let him tank various things for the unit.

>>47559462
Say that to my 5 20-man blob chainaxe-wielding World Eaters.

>>47559521
emperor have mercy upon us if this unleashes the shitstorm all over again

>>47559495
Then why call them Proteus and Phobos? It's not just a codename for different marks (like Iron and Maximus armour), because you couldn't call both the MkII and III "Phobos" to screw with people.

>>47559540
No, I mean it, I'm building a horde WE where every model has a chainaxe, even vehicle gunners (if any).

>>47556174
Isn't Abaddon a Horus clone? Did that ever go anywhere?

In any case, Abby can't even get the Talon to work properly after 10,000 years. No way he could beat Horus.

>>47559588
>even vehicle gunners
maybe model them a bit smaller like a throwing axe

>>47559606
No. And it was never a thing to begin with. It was made up by chaos marines thousands of years after the fact. And the reason it was a perfect clone of Horus was because Fabius had the actual body to work with, rather than trying to make something from scratch, like he was doing with the other primarchs.

>>47559609
I was thinking more along the lines of "drive me closer so I can hit them with my sword!" tank commander.

>>47559606
I thought it was just a rumour because he was quite big for a Space Marine and looked a lot like Horus?

Whats the best Mechanicum list to run for a beginner? Whats your HQ loadout?

Emperor's Children, 3000 Points, Pride of the Legion

Delegatus w/ Terminator Armour, Phoenix Spear, and Volkite Charger: 112 Points

10 Legion Terminators, Power Fists, Phoenix Spear, 8 Volkite Chargers, and 2 Reaper Autocannons: 461 Points
10 Legion Terminators, Power Fists, Phoenix Spear, 8 Volkite Chargers, and 2 Reaper Autocannons: 461 Points
10 Legion Terminators, Power Fists, Phoenix Spear, 8 Volkite Chargers, and 2 Reaper Autocannons: 461 Points

10 Legion Jetbikes, Phoenix Spear, 3 Volkite Culverins, and Meltabombs: 490 Points
10 Legion Jetbikes, Phoenix Spear, 3 Volkite Culverins, and Meltabombs: 490 Points
10 Legion Jetbikes, Phoenix Spear, 3 Volkite Culverins, and Meltabombs: 490 Points

2965 Points

Terminators move up spamming str 5 and 7 fire and charging stuff that gets within range, their leader being cut down by a Phoenix Spear, the unit being smashed to a pulp by power fists, and the survivors being cut down as they flee. Jetbikes run around shooting heavy bolters and volkite culverins and charge any heavy vehicles so they can kill them with their meltabombs. Army seems fairly survivable, universal 2+ saves, everyone has an invul or can get a jink save, T 5 on the jetbikes.

>>47559930
netlist/10

>>47559917

How many points?

Also, your best HQ loadout is Scoria.

Resin praetor with halberd

Only in GW shops on the 25th this month

>>47558364
>>47558469
yea i'll do that, same loadout just with seige breaker, cheers
there any other problems with the list?

>>47559606
>Abby can't even get the Talon to work properly after 10,000 years.

It's five sharp pieces of metal you put on your hand. It doesn't have to have lightning for Abby to kill someone with it.

>>47559980
Gotta start smallish, so 1500pts and build from there. I might go loyalist so Scoria is not an option.

>>47560060
I personally think Iron Circle aren't worth their points but that's up to you., I'd swap the basilisks for medusas and the Atomantic Pravaise for the missile launcher but again that's a personal thing. If you have a plan or idea in your head then do what you want :)

>>47560020
Pics, source, anything?

>>47560020
And for 25£.

>>47560020
>Resin
>In GW shops

So is it grorious Forgeworld resin folded over 10000 times, or filthy gaijin go home failcast?

>>47559606
That's Abby barely getting the thing to properly fit and Chaos ruining everything it touches.

>>47560661
>When Abaddon rose to leadership of the legion, they gave him a big hand

>>47560619
rumor is forgeworld. Local redshirt said a few weeks ago they were getting a poster that had something to do with forgeworld. My guess is this praetor is to commemorate forgeworld becoming available in gw shops

>>47560733
Unless he tore one of Horus's arms off and grafted it on his own body.

>>47557770
Very informative, thank you!

>>47559554
I don't know where the Proteus/Phobos thing came from. It sounds like it's not Proteus- and Phobos-patterns, because patterns are usually styled differently without significant functional differences (e.g. titans, baneblades, bolters). But Proteus and Phobos Land Raiders are pretty different (assault ramp or not).

It's a mess. I think what happened is they used to use Mk marks just to identify different models, then when FW started the HH series they wanted actual names and came up with Proteus/Phobos. They didn't overlap very well.

>listening to fulgrim
holy fucking shit this book is garbage how the fuck can people take black library seriously at all?
>blue haired dumblr bitch
>dumblr bitch smearing shit and blood all over the place while cutting herself
>fulgrim punching an avatar of khaine to death
who writes this shit? kek

>>47560877
I actually liked it, especially the artist girl.

Which is your favorite HH book? Horus Rising, here. Partly because it has one of my favorite sentences.

>>47559930
Enjoy paying £740 for those jetbikes

>>47560907
Scars was great.

>>47560907
>Partly because it has one of my favorite sentences.
This isn't reddit fuxker, what is your favorite sentence?

>>47560877
>how the fuck can people take black library seriously at all?
The first four are pretty much golden.
>>47560907
Either Horus Rising because of Horus being Super Dad/marine banter, or Flight of the Einstein because Garro.

>>47560907
Do novella counts? Prince of Crows was fucking dope.
Failling that, Betrayer. I haven't read many books of the HH serie, but it's not like they have a good reputation.

>>47560926
>The first four are pretty much golden.
yeah im listening to them all in order, the first 4 were decent but holy shit fulgrim is garbage. do they keep getting worse?

>>47560918
until a box set with plastic jetbikes comes out

please for the love of god

>>47560923
Oops, I just didn't think about that. I like the line in which Horus says Abaddon has to be knees and not raise his voice above a whisper when he apologises. Mostly because it's funny to imagine Abaddon doing it and because he probably did it.

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>>47560767
Thank you, anon, for this sentence. I was having nothing to do and then this arrived.

>>47560948
They vary wildly. Fear To Tread, Know No Fear, Betrayer, First Heretic and Scars are all great.

Outcast Dead, Nemesis and Battle for the Abyss are shit.

>>47560965
Not gonna happen.
All the plastic kits in BaC and the ones rumored to be in the next boxed HH set are kits that can be found in 40k and therefore used in 40k games, even thiugh they are extremely rare.

40k is 'suppose' to have one (1) jetbike in the whole imperium. It would be weird if suddenly everyone can pop jetbikes out of the wazoo.

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>>47560948
Yes. Yes they do. It really begins at Legion, and then goes down the drain. Then you will see what was meant to be nine novels become nothing but short stories, novellas, audiodramas, and then the occasional novel. Question you do know what the Life Eater Virus is yes? This is important.

>>47552389
>Abaddon killed a clone of Horus by jamming the talon in its heart

To be fair the talon is archeotech that has a psychic presence due to being used to kill a God.

>>47556174

He wasn't, in the end Abaddon kills him when he slips up and calls him brother.

Also source about the talon, it's shown in the fluff he's actually quite astute when it comes to weapons claiming to have unlocked the gene lock on a custodes spear.

Gonna get shit for this but...I liked Outcast Dead, the normal psykers are fascinating and the glimpses into pre-war Terra stirred my imagination for example one of the original custodes being a congenital dwarf that escaped the worlds toughest prison.

I've always wanted to read about Narthan Dume, if handled right it'd be cool to portray him as the Emperors dark mirror, a man on his level.

>>47561031
Thousand Sons is pretty great too.

>>47560948
Of the last four, Angels of Caliban are supposedly awful, Path of Heaven is great, Pharos is pretty decent and Deathfire is YMMV (though most agree it's garbage). So it's kinda all over the place.

>>47561061
The second half, yes. But it took to long to get to the action.

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>>47561023
Thanks for the laugh.
>>47561055
I liked the part where the Emperor and that Kai fellow play space chess.

>>47561044
>Question you do know what the Life Eater Virus is yes?
yea

i know all the lore from lexicanum/actual books i just never bothered with BL until a week ago since its garbage

>>47561040
>It would be weird if suddenly everyone can pop jetbikes out of the wazoo.
Don't worry, I'm sure they'll find an STC somewhere,

>>47561040
>It would be weird if suddenly everyone can pop jetbikes out of the wazoo.

You mean like how it's weird that just about every chapter suddenly has grav weapons and flyers? All GW needs to do is smell the coffee and you got jetbikes with chapter variants up the wazoo.

I just want those Bullock/Mk.XIV Pattern style jetbikes, not your mom's flying dildoes.

>>47561040
>Rediscover jetbike stc

SUDDENLY JETBIKES

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>>47561126
Well, son, let me tell you more. In one novel the Life Eater Virus was beaten with giant city mounted flamethrowers.
>>47561133
I saw one old RT era art with a chaplain with jetbike.

even if gw made jetbikes they still be $30 per jetbike so i dont see the point

>>47561040
Remind me, are breacher shields in 40k? I live in hope of plastic breachers, but if they're not usable then maybe that's not gonna happen.

>>47561190
nope

theyll still make breachers tho

>>47561190
Don't know if the rules are the same, but Zone Mortalis and this:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Space-Marine-Boarding-Assault-Upgrade-Set
Were released before 30k.

>>47561190
There are siege mantles or something which allow rerolling armour saves

>>47561190
in like one of the forgeworld siege marine lists

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>>47561217
Yes.

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Found it!

>>47561293
>dat spike

Whatre the rules gonna be?
HoW at ap2/3?

And the old bikes getting +1 to jink saves probably

>>47561353
Have them Moriart bikers. As an experiment.

>>47561190
>plastic breachers
Brother!
Rumours of plastic breachers are always what make me think that Autumn can't come soon enough.

>>47554832
>You used Phosphex on my home world?
>Don't worry Brother, it was only on the forests
>You shot phosphex into the forests? What were you thinking?
>That I was doing you a favor, forests are dangerous and full of monsters.

>>47554707
But can't you deepstrike it as a hovering flyer (aka, fast skimmer), and then "If a Skimmer is forced to end its move over friendly or enemy models, move the Skimmer the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it.", thus preventing a mishap ?

>>47561510
>>47554832
Macragge is nothing but mountains right?
>>That I was doing you a favor, forests are dangerous and full of monsters.
kek.

>>47561510
Now I can't stop imagining the Lion having some kind of 'Nam style PTSD flashback every time he encounters a world with a forest and breaking out the phosphex on the 100 acre wood.

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>>47561586
Like this?

>>47561561
>>47561586
Stole it from an old Deathwatch campaign where one of the guys was playing an old Calibanite Dark Angel. His was not one to trust trees.

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>>47550243
>>47555192
>Ow, and you can take a fortification with the Reaping too, so Durak and his homies get to chill inside a /comfy/ fortress while burning plebs to death and laughing at normies dying to poison gas like a bunch of fags I bet they don't even drink from the cups probably just from the cocks
HWS troops can deal with MEQs, and Rask saves points by pretty much being a Siege Breaker MotL (and phosphex rapiers are among the best MEQ killers), but HWsquads simply can't deal good enough with AV15 (stuff gets expensive, your enemy will be able to afford them spartans), not even 10 tank hunter lascannons, and whatever veterans do, Deathshroud can do it better.

Furthermore you can't easily bring distraction/suicide squads because no-Deep strike.

Some LA options to deal with the heavy stuff are graviton weapons (rapiers, cortus dreads, land speeders) or get outflanking lascannons (javelins, LR squadron with a Proteus, Praevian).

BUUUUUUT the deepstrike/FastAttack restriction doesn't apply to your allies, so you could bring three graviton Myrmidons and drop them in an Arvus (along with a Myrmidax). That's about 7 lost HP on a single turn, nothing with an AV value can survive that.

>>47561685
>>47561597
>>47561586
>Dark Angels pacify another dangerous world in the name of the Emperor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gn0_2zmb95k

>>47561510
>You fired phosphex at Macragge and expected no consequences?
>Lionel, you dumb shit

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>>47555644
>>47557902
>The fact that the guy's renown was great enough to grant him power to go on an eternal crusade is proof of his sheer awesomeness.
Wasn't he BANISHED into an eternal Crusade by Dorn and disowned as a son?

>>47561754
My sides. Just how would they play games that include forests? Something like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExoeqJrkK98&list=PLo1nDt_-WWnXXqHVrqlTrXrVoBLhxkakV&index=5
>destroying entire forests

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>>47559415
>whoever made that RoW deserves a gold fucking star
>deserves a gold fucking star
>fucking star
TRIGGERED

>>47561817
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRcPA7Fzebw
>captcha includes forests

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>>47561777
No?

>>47561817
maximus triggered

>>47561777
Pshh, Traitor slander.

It's actually a good question. I wouldn't be surprised if they retconned that or decided that his service during the Battle of Terra was enough for him to be pardonned and become worthy of leading a crusade.

>>47561846
>never resting in the prosecution of his duties against the enemies of the Emperor
>never resting
>except when he sat on a chair for a few years waiting for abaddon

>>47561817
Hold on, I don't understand this pic.

This guy never knew the Great Crusade right? His baptism by fire was against the AL? Or against loyalist IW?
And at the end they say "Loyalist legion he sided with"? Does that mean they don't know, the guy light have turned traitor by siding loyalist, or that he was always loyalist to begin with?
I'm lost.

>>47561893
>implying he just didn't use the chair as a weapon

>>47561846
>>47561865
>>47561893
No, as in Keeler revealed to Siggy that she had a vision of him dying on Phall, unremembered. Siggy got scared and asked Dorn to send Yonnad instead, who subsequently died (UNREMEMBERED) and Pollux stepped up to command the fleet

>Dorn had trusted him, and he had squandered that trust on pride and superstition, not unlike those who now rebelled against the Emperor. Shamed, Sigismund offered his blade to his father, to take his life, but the Primarch refused. He would retain Sigismund as First Captain, but none would ever know of what he had done. Dorn would not allow Sigismund's fear and pride to sow doubt in their ranks. His shame would be his to bear alone. Dorn then disowned Sigismund as one of his sons, for no matter what his future held, Sigismund would never again be one of his own.

>>47561936
>Siggy's chair becomes Instant Death on challenges

>>47561920
Yes. End of the message.

He never knew the great crusade. A vocal rival of Dreygur, he fought against him and the loyalists Dreygur sided with.

>>47561774
>Now our world is tainted
>OOOOOO CRY MY A FUCKING RIVER

File: Horusmania.jpg (209 KB, 1200x675) Image search: [Google]

209 KB, 1200x675

>>47561957
I did a thing.

File: 30k Titlefight.jpg (146 KB, 572x814) Image search: [Google]

146 KB, 572x814

>>47562045
I love it, this mastercrafted pic of yours.

>>47561957
Yonnad's dead? Damn, in the 2nd ed. Epic rulebook Dorn gives Yonnad command of the defense of the Imperial Palace while Dorn and the Emperor go face Horus on the Vengeful Spirit.