Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion: Garithos did nothing wrong edition
D&D 5e conversion: goo DOT gl SLASH cmCypo
Old thread >>47396795
>>47477869
How was the plaguelands called before the . . . plague ?
>>47477913
I'm sure it was something nice. It was basically large swaths of Lordaeronian farmland.
>>47477913
it was just part of Lordaeron. I'd say Northeron, but that was eventually retconned into the Hinterlands
>>47477913
Plaugelands? You mean the party lands?
>>47478773
Kel'thuzad pls
Now I will start my master thesis on why the Grand Marshal Othmar Garithos was right all along.
When we first meet Garithos, a few rude comments made by him make one thing about him abundantly clear, he's a racist, who hates elves.
But how does he express this hatred for the elf race?
He gives Prince Kael'Thas and his elven people, who have no home to go back to, a simple non-combat mission of repairing observatories, where their lives are extremely unlikely to be at risk.
He's racist, sure, but he doesn't just want them to die pointlessly like some cold hearted monster, he just doesn't want to have to look at them while he battles the scourge on the front lines, he's even showing them a small amount of kindness here by leaving them out of danger.
In response, he gets a snappy comment from Kael'Thas about how his people are warriors and deserve to be allowed to fight on the front lines.
Later Kael'Thas has no boats, and gets a few from the naga, there's nothing wrong with this, he needed those boats to complete the mission given to him by Garithos.
Garithos scolds him though, because he doesn't trust the naga, but rather than actually punish him, simply tells him not to trust the naga.
Fast forward to next mission, Garithos pulls the dwarves, and humans from Kael'Thas' army to the front lines to assist him, leaving the job of defeating an undead strikeforce advancing upon Dalaran to Kael'Thas.
The blood elf prince, who only one mission ago called his people warriors, eager to fight on the front lines goes back on his own words, and asks if Lord Garithos intends his people to fight the undead with nothing but "sticks and harsh language".
This is the point at which people theorize that Garithos had this grand off-screen scheme to destroy the elves once and for all, involving letting the undead kill them all, and then claiming them to be casualties of the war, well, I'll explain intermittently why this is preposterous.
(1 of 2)
Continued from >>47480495
Kael'Thas loses a few bases to the undead, who are far more enormous a force than he'd anticipated, and winds up completely surrounded.
He accepts help from the naga once again, knowing he'll be damning his people to Garithos' wrath if he ever finds out.
He manages to push back the undead strike force, and right as he's managing to do this, an army arrives.
It's Garithos himself, and an entire legion of knights, riding over the hill to rescue the elves! They witness naga fleeing from the scene, and Kael'Thas, and the remainder of his race are put into the dungeons of dalaran to await their executions for colluding with the naga.
So hold on, if Garithos truly wanted the blood elves dead, had the unquestioning loyalty of his own men, and the man-power to force the elves into the dungeons of dalaran with little to no fighting whatsoever, why would he have needed this absurd 'Let the undead destory the observatories I obviously care about, and possibly re-take complete control of Dalaran'? Because he didn't plan that, and that plan makes no sense.
If he wanted the elves dead, he could have had their heads from the second they showed up, but he's demonstrated nothing to this point but mercy and fairness to them.
(1.5 of 2)
Continued from >>47480520
The naga at this point have manipulated the blood elves right into their hands.
Lady Vashj has forced Kael'Thas into an offer he can't refuse, either join her, and serve the BURNING LEGION ( The same people that destroyed their ancestral homeland and brought them nearly to exctinction), or give his people up to certain death at the hands of Garithos.
I'm not really saying that Kael'Thas is entirely at fault for accepting the help of the nagas in such a hard time as the attack from the undead that risked wiping out his forces, but hey, maybe if he had listened to Lord Garithos saying that they couldn't be trusted, he could have wound up not being forced to serve a rogue demon, which ultimately ended up costing him and his people their lives anyways in the events of WoW. Now, the secret mission, where he has his own men wear TNT and run into a portal to blow themselves up to disable it.
Can we agree this is completely absurd?
This mission is probably not intended to be taken as canon, especially since the mission being canon would imply that Chen Stormstout traveled to Outland with Vashj and Kael'Thas to help them fight off Maiev shortly later.
(1.75 of 2)
Continued from >>47480541
After this, Garithos falls off the game's radar for a long time, at which point he springs up again in the undead campaign, where he trusts not only an elf, but an undead, because he has no other choice to retake his homeland.
Once again showing that he's not some kind of uncompromising brainless oaf, simply a man with a strong distaste towards a particular race.
He appears for a short time to be racist against dwarves aswell, as he comments on the dwarves who got lost in the woods:
-- "Those brainless dwarves are almost more trouble than they're worth!"
It should be noted that the future of humanity was on the line here, and the Ironforge dwarves who came to help did not appear to simply be 'lost in the woods', look at the map 'a new power in lordaeron', and you will see that the dwarves had literally pitched tents in the woods.
It's no wonder Garithos scolds them saying:
-- "There's a war on and you louts are off having a picnic!"
To which he gets a sarcastic:
-- "Yes garithos, right away Garithos"
And then a snappy comment after he leaves.
Shortly afterwards, he dies to Sylvanas and Varimathras.
Crushed in the gears of a war between 3 factions far more powerful than his small army of humans, the scourge, the forsaken, and the burning legion.
Therefore we can conclude that not only Garithos was correct in not trusting the naga but he was also correct of not trusting the elves which means the he did nothing wrong.
(2 of 2)
>>47480568
well spoken sir
>>47480495
>he's a racist
this term gets thrown around way too much in fantasy (in real life too). being "racist" in such a setting would be so normal and useful that there is no point for having a boogeyman evil label for it
its like if someone in real life said they didnt like spiders and then you point and yell racist at them. its unnecessary
also in real life literally everyone has "racist" ideas in literally every interaction with other people, its not only normal but its necessary. the label was supposed to be reserved for the particularly heinous situations but then liberals came along and diluted its meaning to "you have a different opinion than me". also dont tell liberals that the literal definition of bigot is someone who hates someone else because of their opinions. their head would explode
>>47480913
I don't hate Garithos because he was racist against other species. I hate him because he was a awful military commander. Had he just given his elven and Dwarven allies the support they needed Quel'thalas would still be part of the Alliance, Kael'thas wouldn't have gone crazy, the Scarlet Crusade wouldn't exist, and Lordaeron might still be in Alliance hands.
But no, let's piss off a large chunk of our forces cause they have pointy ears and try to kill them when they improvise solutions.
>>47482219
b-but muh family
>>47480913
Actually, it is more like traditional racism. mostly because traditional racism would almost certainly not exist in a fantasy setting, because the differences between races within one species is so much less than the differences between species.
Also I no longer believe the Warcraft movie has any chance of being good if Duncan knows so little about the setting that he believes that there are multiple races within the high elves
>>47482389
>Multiple elf races
What? Could you elaborate?
>>47482427
In the tweet in the image in the post I linked to
Duncan says one elf is asian and that there are multiple races within high elves
Which is fucking retarded, as high elves breed slowly and live in a small area all in the same nation. There could not logically be more than one "race" amongst the high elves
>>47482481
Jeez, he could have just said something like "no that Elf is an Elf" but he had to double down.
High Elves are shit anyway though. They just sit on their butts and complain about stuff while the Blood Elves actually try to save their homeland and species.
>>47482597
He has to agree with the narrative. He literally shit talked Tolkien the other day.
>>47482757
Why is this man directing the Tolkein love-letter that is Warcraft then?
>>47482766
Because no one else wanted to.
Game movies are well known failures.
>>47482757
>pointing out that he isn't Tolkien is shit talking Tolkien
>>47482837
>>47482803
Sort of a self-fulfilling prophesy isn't it?
Video Game movies are known failures, so only bad directors work on video game movies, which makes them failures
>>47483161
except this director has a very good movie under his title. moon
it just turned out he was a cuck faggot sjw nigger lover
>>47480568
>>47483207
No problem with that, people can ascribe to different philosophies, and the most damage he can do in general is just being an annoying shit
Until he directs a fantasy movie, with fantasy staples which abides by standard Tolkein-esque fantasy rules, and tries to shoehorn philosophies which simply do not logically fit within the setting in to pat his own ego
>>47477869
where the fuck is this conversion
>>47483240
oh you mean like this?>>47480913
>>47483301
>memeing on someone who asks dumb rhetorical questions makes you an SJW
>>47483317
you sound like youre in denial by redd...i mean obviously 4chan oldfag friend
>hes not a good director!
>he is
>it doesnt matter!
>he doesnt put sjw identify politics in his movie!
>he does
>who cares!?!
just fucking go away you idiot
>>47483344
how the fuck is that identity politics? Someone called out a casting choice and he mocked them
>>47483356
take your nigger loving reddit shit somewhere else duncan
also how the fuck was that "mocking him"? frantically trying to defend your forced diversity by making up bullshit that isnt true is some sort of sick burn in your delusional mind?
>>47483356
No one called out a casting choice, someone made an observation and he responded by proving himself to be a complete moron.
>>47480568
This doesn't even make sense. You need to replay the Warcraft 3 campaign again. Garithos sent Kael'Thas on a fool's errand so he could have a public reason to exterminate the elves. Elves had been considered an integral part of the alliance in the fight against the burning legion. Garithos destroyed the human resistance to the undead and burning legion by infighting with the elves. He wasted valuable time and assets attacking HIS own alliance while the scourge raped and pillaged humanity. Garithos was fucking retarded. He did everything wrong. Watching him die was hilarious.
>>47480913
Intending to slaughter entire presence of a species in an area including non-combatants under false pretenses seems pretty heinous to me.
In any case I want this garithos meme to die. You may think it's funny, but it attracts legitimate retards and people who are fucked to the head.
>>47483603
Yeah, this thread has been cancer and I blame ops bait.
So to change the discussion, do you think there's any chance whatsoever of the High Elves and Blood Elves reconciling? Sees every time they might get close one side or the other shoots themselves in the foot.
>>47483669
In the Shadow of the Sun suggests that they'll never reconcile. Both groups feel deeply betrayed by the other
>>47483704
Yeah, though they were getting along fairly well in Dalaran up until the whole purge thing Jaina did. Plus the whole reason they split in the first place (fel energy) is no longer an issue with the Light based Sunwell.
I agree with Lor'themar in that story though, the Blood Elves have done some nasty things, but it's because of those things that Quel'thalas still exists.
>>47480394
Can't help it when my voice makes all the ladies wet
>>47482874
No, seriously, if that's your bar for shit-talking Tolkien, you have literally never seen anyone else shit-talking Tolkien.
Compared to the insane, incoherent butthurt of, say, 'Epic Pooh', pointing out that nobody working for Blizzard in the 90s was a veteran of the Somme is perfectly fucking reasonable.
>>47482874
Are you suggesting that being old, white and veteran of a great war is somehow insulting?
>>47483837
Precisely, both sides are justified in their beliefs.
The high elves feel betrayed by the blood elves because the blood elves fell to what was effectively demon worship in an effort to slake their thirst for magic
The blood elves feel betrayed by the high elves because the high elves sat around moping about how they were a dying race instead of getting off their sorry asses and doing something about it, and then had the gall to act as if the blood elves had done the wrong thing by saving them
>Blizzard is in talks with the Nostralius guys
If we actually get a legacy server out of this how would you want it to work? Old content but with the modern ui and talent stuff? Or a straight port?
>>47482219
what support.
He told kael to engage the undead in dalaran while he broke through on another flank.
>>47484161
I want it to not happen because they already barely support the base game without diverting resources to maintain 11 year old code and content
>>47484171
He sent him on a suicide mission with no supplies or means to actually do the mission, then got butthurt when Kael teamed up with the Naga to get it done.
The Naga hadn't even been fighting the Alliance forces either, it's not like he was working with an enemy.
>>47484179
Yeah but if they just take all the stuff Nostralius did most of the work will be done for them.
>>47484215
if they 1:1 copy over Nost and let the Nost guys maintain it with no or little help, then I'm ok with it. If we lose a raid tier to pander to nostalgiafags I'll be annoyed
>>47484250
Based on how WoD went I'd say their dev team is pretty fucked regardless.
>>47482757
>He literally shit talked Tolkien the other day
BURN HIM
>>47484199
the naga were actively attacking alliance forces. The paladin they captured for example. All KT had to do was sit on his island with his thumb up his ass.
>>47484284
>All KT had to do was sit on his island with his thumb up his ass.
and all Malfurion had to do at Hyjal was blow up the undead base with land mines and then surround it with ancients
>>47484295
The Hyjal raid would have been 10x better if you had to navigate Malfurions giant mine field at one point.
Could the burning legion defeat Earth?
>>47484328
unless the nuclear armed countries blow everything up, probably
>>47484262
Didn't WoD only have vestigial team due to Titan still not having been scrapped back then?
>>47484359
titan got scrapped a while back
Jay wilson got the assignment as the lead midway during development and they gutted everything
>>47484359
that was Wrath, Azjol-Neurb was cut from development because of people getting shifted around between dev teams
>>47484359
WoD is where all the Titan folks got spun back up on WoW. All the former Titan devs went straight into Legion development. You can't just throw bodies at a project that's already in the process of implementation and expect progress unless your a shit-tier manager who's chasing stats on Powerpoint slides, with a complete misunderstanding of how the stuff under you works (totally don't have personal experience with this).
>>47483603
The last thread was a Garrosh did nutin' wrong thread. Of course we'd experience the opposite next thread.
>>47484161
>Blizzard is in talks with the Nostralius guys
>If we actually get a legacy server out of this how would you want it to work? Old content but with the modern ui and talent stuff? Or a straight port?
>Implying this is not blatantly obvious PR bullshit with no substance just to make all the haters shut up.
Stay ignorant...
>>47484521
>>The last thread was a Garrosh did nutin' wrong thread. Of course we'd experience the opposite next thread.
Queen Azshara did nothing wrong!
>>47484707
Queen Azshara nearly doomed Azeroth because she was convinced Sargeras's dick was the only dick good enough for her in the galaxy. She'll fuck anyone if she can get power out of it. Vanity and arrogance nearly ended the world.
Would any of you worthless idiots mind talking about /tg/ related content rather than summoning the summer squad by mentioning SJWs?
At least TRY to make it look related. Compare lore points while shitting all over the movie if that's what it takes.
>>47477869
Why 5e? It doesn't seem like it would work well at all. Especially in the case of Martials.
>>47484707
Hogger did nothing wrong!
>>47484772
I played Horde before Alliance, so I can't really appreciate the mythos of Hogger.
>>47477869
so uh.....why exactly does the Horde put up with the Undead? I never played the MMO.
>>47484756
It also works pretty poorly for casters
Warcraft does not use vancian magic
>>47484787
It's explained in the very beginning that more than anything, the Forsaken joining the Horde is an alliance of convenience. The Horde wants a foothold in the Eastern Kingdoms, and the Forsaken don't want to be overrun by the Alliance. Plus, there's a weird sense of comraderie about trying to eke out a living on Azeroth despite their lot in life.
>>47484787
For the same reason US puts up with Pakistan and Turkey - they allow for better power projection.
>>47484787
at the end of TFT into WoW they fit the whole "persecuted savage" archetype the rest of the Horde was part of. Then later they became the Scourge 2.0 and only stuck around because of bad writing and muh faction balance
>>47484787
Because, back in Vanilla, the Horde was much, much weaker than the Alliance, especially when the Alliance teamed up with the Night Elves
The Forsaken approached the Horde first, for fear of being steamrolled by Ironforge and Stormwind, the Horde agreed for fear of losing their lumber supply.
If you're now thinking "but that doesn't apply anymore, they no longer have any reason to be allied" Congratulations, you are more insightful to the setting than Kosak
>>47484797
That too. At least warcasters would get to do Cool Things though. I can't think of any Warcraft character as limited in options as a Champion Fighter.
>>47484816
>warcasters
Don't mind me, I am reading through M3 spoilers for Warmachine.
Spellcasters + Warcraft = Warcasters.
I meant Spellcasters would get to do Cool Things.
>>47484797
>Warcraft does not use vancian magic
t. the Skull of Gul'dan being used for different shit in every fuckin' game
>>47484812
I'd just like to know whether Sylvanas was merely pretending when she threw her pet demon and Putress under the bus, or whether it was a genuine "character development" for her to go full hitler during battle for Gilneas.
Because Garrosh in Cataclysm was a warmongering aggressor, but he did not condone wholesale genocide or deployment of plague.
>>47484832
I wonder how many other parts of Gul'dan can be used for great destruction.
>>47484815
>If you're now thinking "but that doesn't apply anymore, they no longer have any reason to be allied" Congratulations, you are more insightful to the setting than Kosak
in-game faction mechanics prohibit any substantial political shifts of player factions.
They can make their leaders lose their shit or even leads, they can juggle power around, but they will never EVER make one of them neutral or even switch sides outright. Never.
When you're horde or alliance, you're it for life.
>>47484812
>at the end of TFT into WoW they fit the whole "persecuted savage" archetype
https://youtu.be/DpEXhNjEeHY?t=11m44s
>>47484836
Before Cataclysm she wasn't written by Kosak
During Cataclysm she was
There's your "character development"
>>47484836
Sylvanas insists Varimathras acted alone, that he was serving some other "master" (who you could actually hear in the final fight with him). Varimathras was the one who incited Putress and the Royal Apothecary Society to treachery and kicked Sylvanas out of her own city.
>>47484854
>next expansion players must find the elbow of Gul'dan, famed for it's role in fighting the common cold
>>47484787
In Vanilla and TBC they were basically a client state of The Horde that they used to maintain a presence in the Eastern Kingdoms and were a crucial part of the Horse's military strategy in Wrath.
At this point they're too integrated into The Horde to be cut loose without significantly weakening the Horde's power. And with Jaina and half the Alliance just waiting for a chance to strike there's no way they'd take that risk.
>>47484857
I don't think you understand my point
My point was not "they should no longer be allied", my point was "they should have never become stronger than the Alliance"
Cataclysm broke the lore of the series
>>47484836
we have no reason to believe that Sylvanas knew about what Putress had planed, but we also have no reason other than her word to believe the opposite, so it's pretty up in the air
>>47484832
"Macguffin that superpowers warlock magic" is a pretty common theme in it's usage
>>47484873
>Cataclysm broke the lore of the series
is that the one where Deathwing comes back? I thought he died in warcraft 2
>>47484873
The Cataclysm hit the Alliance areas a lot harder than the Horde ones. Plus the Forsaken got a huge boost in power with the addition of the Val'kyr. Being able to replenish their numbers and still keep their Undead toughness? Badass.
>>47484863
god the voice acting in WC2 is so fucking good
>>47484881
the book retconned that I think. They killed a bunch of his children with Gruul and beat him up, then he went back to Azeroth to get blinged up
>>47484881
Yes, Cataclysm is the expansion where Deathwing comes back and literally breaks the world.
>>47484886
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TknF4UODXCc
>>47484883
Yup
And nne of that should have happened due to the impact such things should naturally have on the political climate of the world and how incompatible such changes would be with pre-existing and unchangeable game mechanics
>>47484900
The political climate wasn't ready for Garrosh slamming his face into everything he saw.
>"There's been a giant disaster, thousands are dead and without homes, our infrastructure is fucked, and the guys responsible are still out there planning to do it again"
>"Well ok, we'll rebuild and send a force too... what's that noise. War drums?"
>"Lok'tar ogar!"
>>47484944
Precisely, it was fucking stupid
>>47484944
garrosh just wanted to make Orcs great again
fuck the dindunuffin peacehippie orcs, i want my rampaging Horde back
>>47484962
The issue is that when Garrosh came to power in the wake of the Cataclysm, he immediately went on the warpath despite everyone still trying to recover and make sense of what the fuck just happened.
>>47484962
Then you'll need to kick out every single non-orc in it.
The trolls are the peaceful, not the rampaging trolls.
The blood eves and undead WERE alliance.
The tauren are a peaceful race.
>>47484973
that's what Orcs do innit tho? If you want to act like a human, play Alliance
>>47484962
But they're still there
Blackrock spire is full of them, not to mention the fell horde in outland. We've fought the rampaging horde, it was quite fun.
I just don't want them playable, because if the Horde becomes pure evil, then the Alliance would end up being pure good, and that would be boring as shit
OH WAIT
>>47484944
say what you want about Garrosh, but he's the only NPC that's ever made me feel genuine pride to serve him
>live by these words: LOK'TAR OGAR - VICTORY OR DEATH!
>>47484961
It's like you don't want War in Warcraft. Don't you realize WC2 was the height of the series?
>>47484983
No. Did you not play Rexxar's campaign or something?
You should, it was the most fun TFT campaign
>>47484989
I felt that way about Cairne, then Garrosh murdered him. Still upset about that.
>>47484944
>Warchief Hellscream, we need to strike at the Twilight Highlands; it's a major stronghold for the bastards who helped bring back Deathwing
>Send a squadron of zeppelins; we'll link up with the local Dragonmaw orcs and take the fight to the cultists
[...]
>We're en route and should make landfall soon, Warchief
>Is that an Alliance navy I see down there? Divert our escort! Let's show those dogs what true Horde might is
>WARCHIEF WHAT ARE YOU DOING OH FUCK TWILIGHT DRAGONS EVERYTHING'S ON FIRE
>>47484989
It's funny the way you say that.
>I feel pride serving the guy who greets people by turning a phrase intended to inspire courage in the face of adversity into "SUCCEED OR I KILL YOU"
I'm not sure if it makes you look like a sycophantic coward, or just an idiot
>>47485019
>>I feel pride serving the guy who greets people by turning a phrase intended to inspire courage in the face of adversity into "SUCCEED OR I KILL YOU"
well I never didn't succeed so it doesn't seem that bad to me, maybe you just need some confidence anon
>>47485038
Idiot it is
>>47485019
>"SUCCEED OR I KILL YOU"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc4BpRPHLQI&list=PL5b0fctdcCFNBE21S42pVshwj6Bh4adRE
act more surprised that greenskins are savages
>>47485047
>he wasn't strong enough to dwell in Orgrimmar
Did anyone see the movie?
Ignoring the alliance borefest, the orcs where fucking awesome
The Cg is really decent, and i really got exited in the battles, allso magic effects were fucking sweet
If you look closely you can spot Bladefist, Hellscream and One-eye in the battles, despite them having no dialouge
>>47485088
>Bladefist, Hellscream and One-eye in the battles
my body is ready
>>47485066
You know, this is a pretty accurate depiction of why orcs followed Garrosh isn't it?
>I'm not sure, this guy is clearly a total psychopath who knows nothing of strategy, maybe we shouldn't follow him
>What, are you too weak to follow him into battle?
>HOW DARE YOU CALL ME WEAK? I'LL SHOW YOU! I'LL FOLLOW GARROSH TO THE BITTER END!
And then everything went to shit because Thrall didn't quell the orc warrior pride
>>47485098
In the final battle infront of the portal you get a sweet shot of one eye roaring, and squashing a human's helmeted head in his fist
>>47477913
Eastweld
>>47484778
Hooo boiii,
I remember when I first tried to down him in 2006. He made me his little bitch and ravaged me right there , in his camp, with his whole crew in for a gangbang.
Came back later with a gang of my own. Killed him 6 times to get vengeance.
Time to don my nostalgia goggles
>>47484989
The quest chain in stonetalon is how I want to remember Garrosh. A warmonger? Maybe. Nut at least a warmonger with honor who is willing to listen to his men. During that moment he was the most promising character since WC3.
But nooooooo, let's have a crew of writers fuck his shit up.
>>47485211
Yeah, he had a lot of potential that just got pissed away. I liked him in Wrath where his attitude was played more for laughs and he had Saurfang to help clean up his messes. But then they made that idiot War Chief.
>>47485211
Borean Tundra and Stonetalon Garrosh are the best
it's already mostly resolved by the time you show up, but the Horde's landing in Northrend was completely insane, and Garrosh and Saurfang carried them all through it
>>47483590
Basically this
From the Illidan book there's supposedly only a handful of worlds not screwed. You would think the void lords would be more engaged with defeating the Legion. You can't corrupt a world soul and put the universe in internal darkness when an idiot destroys all life in it.
From what I can gather, the lords and the old gods are just kinda... there in the big conflict.
>>47484778
In Hearthstone Hogger > Deathwing and Corrupted Hogger > C'thun.
Truly Hogger is the greatest raid boss ever created.
>>47484895
>>47484881
>>47484873
and then Deathwing was finallythe little girl
>>47485304
Sylvanas counters both and she doesn't even need to get corrupted
Sylvanas as a raid boss confirmed
>>47485316
That picture really makes it look like feathering is trying to drown the world in menstrual blood.
Anyway there's also this. Are you a bad enough dude to date the Lich King's sexy daughter?
>>47485333
Also autocorrect sucks.
>>47484136
For those people, it is.
Ridiculous.
>>47485360
good recursive logic
the differences between Hellfire Peninsula and Tanaan Jungle are really weird
>Honor Hold was built on a lake
>the Expedition Armory was built in a mountain
>the mountain the Temple of Sha'nar was on got leveled without burying the whole thing
>the Bleeding Hollow abandoned Zeth'gol and colonized Fang'rila
scarlet crusade did nothing wrong
>>47485894
they were responsible for Mal'ganis being criminally underused. I can't think of a faction in Wrath that did anything worse
>>47485940
The Scarlets were used as almost comic relief in Wrath, since they were so horrendously incompetent.
>>47485894
The scarlet crusade were a bunch of racists that got the annihilation that they deserved.
>>47477913
The lands
>>47482641
shoulden´t the high and bloodelves hate the goblins.
I mean there just had to sell air- cairer to the fucking scourge
>>47486015
Weren't they actually merged with the Argent Dawn to form the Argent Crusade after Tirion got Ashbringer back and told them to stop being stupid.
>>47486073
What you need to keep in mind with Wow is that most "playable" races are actually a smaller faction of the members of their race. There are almost no races in Warcraft that are united under a single banner.
The goblins are just the Kezan island goblins but there are countless other goblins around the world doing other shit. Same goes for almost every other race, all of them have large splinter factions that do evil crazy shit. One have to be comic relief level stupid (like the scarlet crusade) to fault every member of a race for all the shit other members have done.
>>47486271
No, the Argent Crusade is basically a more militarized Argent Dawn. The Scarlet Crusade remained separate.
>>47486271
Most of the crusade sailed to Northrend, one chunk stayed in Tyr's hand, and another chunk holed up in the monastery. There might've been some deserters but they never joined in groups.
Argent Crusade was a merger of the Knights of the Silver Hand and Argent Dawn, which was really just a fancy way for Tirion to say "I have the glowstick so I run this shit now", because he was pretty much the only member of the silver hand left.
>>47485377
Not the anon you were talking to, but here, I'll explain it. A common leftist catchphrase is 'old white men' because often people in positions of power, ie CEOs and presidents are, you guessed it, old white men. You can easily guess why leftists dislike people who are white, male, and old. The phrase "old, white man" was not used by accident. It's an insult to Tolkien, albeit a very political insult.
>>47487214
This has always struck me as weird
The most left wing people I know are all old white men, and by left wing, I mean "former members of the local communist party" levels of left wing, so almost certainly far further left in their philosophies than some wealthy director
>>47477869
Garithos was too heavy-handed in his handling of Kael's mutiny, but he doesn't deserve all the hate he gets. He important scored victories against overwhelming odds while everyone else abandoned Lordaeron to the tender mercies of the Scourge.
>>47487517
Lordaeron still fell, and the elves leaving the Alliance is still his fault.
>>47487529
I wouldn't put the elves leaving the Alliance entirely on his shoulders. He played his part, but they were always fair-weather allies.
>>47483915
I'd call you a faggot, but as a lady I have to admit it's true. Hot damn, I'd get boned by a lich.
>>47487601
You have loose morals. Kel'Thuzad's the only lich I'd give my body.
>>47487315
Because the people saying it are young, and there's a general perception that old people = conservative. It's basically a leftist meme. There's no real problem with old white men specifically, just some happen to be CEOs of large companies, and well, everyone is biased, including the people who dislike racists, so that becomes a stereotype and now you have an easy punching bag. It's simple human nature.
>>47487529
the bro tier elves stayed.
We humans have to stick together.
>>47487920
Tell that to the Scarlets. They don't trust anyone but themselves.
>>47487517
Nah, everything shown of Garithos suggested he was incompetent. He might well have been a good leader in other aspects, but we don't see any of that. What we do see is a leader who misuses and tries to get executed parts of his forces in the face of an existential threat. What we see is him losing the human foothold in Lordaeron by his own decisions.
Hell, if he wanted the Blood Elves dead so much, why not use them on an attack on an undead base? That way they die, take out undead forces and Garithos can come in to clean up. But Garithos doesn't do the smart thing, because he's not a character, he's a plot point and he does his job admirably.
>>47487964
The problem is that he was a badly written ham-fisted villain.
>>47488147
It's a video game plot for a strategy video game campaign, what did you expect?
>>47487964
He conquered Dalaran and defeated multiple armies trying to take it back. He's not a tactical genius, but he gets the job done. Speaking of suicide missions, he may have tried to get Kael killed by taking the non elves with him, but it's possible he intended to get back to help and was enraged when he saw that Kael disobeyed his orders about the naga. We don't know since we don't have his point of view.
>>47488212
You know something Dalaran has a significant elf population, including when Garithos did his whole thing of putting Kael into the dungeons. Why didn't they go to the council of six to stop the execution or something?
>>47488511
Lord Othmar Garithos was the Grand Marshall of the New Alliance. The highest ranking officer alive. At that point he was basically a king and no one was going to give him orders, specially not some puny elves.
> tfw after several weeks of hard work you're almost done with overhauling anything Warcraft I-related on wowpedia
>>47488595
Thanks to Monara now every time I see the words "the Light" I think about buttsex.
>>47488719
The Light is not sexual, but some priestesses might be
>>47485274
/Saurfang/ carried them through it. Garrosh was such a dipshit that we wanted to pick a fight with the Alliance while still fighting the Scourge. He straight out said that the horde didn't need supply lines or support, so long as they had strong axes.
>>47480541
>Chen Stormstout
That was actually some random Brewmaster. I think it was generic one, whose name was randomized.
>>47488595
Draenei were a mistake
>>47488769
I need more good Val'kyr art. Do you have it?
>>47489141
they are almost all NSFW
>>47489141
I got some holy bondage, if you're cool with that.
>>47489185
>132543
now I just know this is a Hentai Foundry number
tfw Darknest is dead
>>47484989
A severe case of bad character development combined with him having to make tough decisions and everyone else acting like he was at fault in more ways than he was.
Would've settled for Garrosh being a nicer version of Grom, but still capable of wrecking shit. A warmonger? Yeah, let him be, yet they should've leave his honorable part untouched and even emphasise it further in later stories.
But nope, let's make him Orc Hitler/Stalin and do a lot of stupid evil shit.
>>47477913
Probably just eastern Lordaeron.
>>47484328
Probably. We may have better tech than Azeroth, but we have jack shit that works against magical bullshit.
Unless it turns out the Pope's been holding out on us.
>>47488511
The council of six didn't want to get involved, many Blood Elves are still rightfully pissed off about this.
>>47489819
I never read the Shattering, but isn't it because Saurfang was the only guy who had the balls to go "no that's stupid because of reason X, do this instead" and when he left his "advisers" hated everything he did but wouldn't speak out against it until it was too late? Or did he just not care about anyone's opinion but Saurfang's
Just got home from watching the movie. Thougth it was pretty good, a lot better than I expected from the trailers.
Easily a 6/10. Hope we get a sequel.
>>47490419
Wait, it was a 6/10 in your books, and you're happy about that? Jesus your expectations must be low.
>>47490488
A 6/10 is above average. I'm not like those fuckwads who won't accept anything other than a 7 or higher.
>>47490488
After what we've seen in trailers I'd be hard pressed to imagine anyone whose expectations of the movie would be high.
Also name a single movie based on vidya that deserves more than 5/10.
>>47490488
tbf I'm also expecting a 1 or 2/10 myself, it looks like shit so far.
>>47490522
I'd say the first Pokémon movie is a 7/10, but that may be the nostalgia speaking.
>>47488595
>/aco/
>>47490496
Well, ok, I get that. I'm just not sure why you want a sequel though. Were you able to enjoy it by pretending it was unrelated to current warcraft? Because I doubt I could enjoy a movie that shits on current lore and retcons so much, even if the movie itself was fantastic.
>>47490522
I still don't get why they went for that human actors + CG thing. Blizzard's known for doing great CG, why couldn't they just extend their cinematics into a movie?
>>47490488
Above average iss already leagues better than 99% of all the other game movies.
And Warcraft is high fantasy, a genre that is extremely difficult to produce budget wise and from a screenwriting pov.
>>47490522
Street Fighter the Movie
>>47490589
The CG you see in their games is pretty expensive. A movie-length feature would cost a fortune.
>>47490589
it takes forever to create those CGI cutscenes.
>>47490419
It's good to see someone being positive
movie plot in spoilers please
>>47489585
I didn't know how much I needed lady Gul'dan until just now.
>>47490773
She would despise you
>>47490589
>Were you able to enjoy it by pretending it was unrelated to current warcraft?
The movie isn't a 1:1 retelling of the WC1 lore, and I didn't expect it to be one either; It's not like the WC1 lore hasn't been retconned before.
>>47490851
>It's not like the WC1 lore hasn't been retconned before
reee
>>47490827
>Gul'dana
>>47490876
Stonewind and grand hamlet, never forget.
>>47490827
Please god, yes.
>>47482219
He brought his personal issues into the his business. That is as shitty as you get.
>>47490919
Grand Hamlet wasn't retconned, it was simply renamed Darkshire when the forest got corrupted
>>47490827
Oh lord
>>47490919Grand Hamlet was namedropped
>>47490419
I heard that the movie was able to bring Azeroth to life, how true is that in your mind?
>>47490987
Not stronk enough 5/10
>>47490827
Perfection.
>>47490987
Those eyes man.
>>47491024
I agree it does a fairly good job at it. You'll recognize all the locations the moment you see them. The only location that anoyed me wasDalaran, which shouldn't be flying yet.
I'll also add that I didn't dislike the "normal" humans as much as I thought I would and evntually got sorta used to them existing in this CGI world, but it was still a bit jarring in some scenes when they were interacting with the Orcs. I think it'd be better if the whole movie was CGI.
>>47491154
That spoilered part will be a mess if they ever do Warcraft 3.
>>47490989
neat
>>47491237
>>47491154
That spoiler triggered me a bit. That was one of the coolest cutscenes in WC3.
>>47491237
I doubt this will get a sequel.
>>47491274
what?
where?
it doesn't happen in wc3
>>47491315Archimonde building a sand castle: https://youtu.be/dfkiJXnSRM8?t=11m7s
Second best cutscene in the game.
>>47487668
>>47487601
Thats because Kel'Thuzad is the best husbando. Plus he would dote cobstantly. Hes adorable
>>47491279
If absolute shit like Transformers and TMNT can get a sequel there should be non reason that this shouldn't.
>>47490384
Actually, he surrounded himself by Yes men and Blackrock orcs. His right hand was a guy that was basically NKVD of Blackhand.
>>47491424
Exactly. It just has to make enough money.
>>47490522
Angry Birds.
Street Fighter (Of course!)
>>47491405
I wish I was Mr. Bigglesworth.
>>47491443
With how much Legendary has been pushing this movie hopefully there's a chance. Hell I'm sure that the Chinese would like to see Warcraft more than a lot of other properties.
Mostly I'd like sequels because they could make Warcraft 3 and that would be awesome.
>>47490384
Cairne was a dick to Garrosh. Thrall told him he could ask help and guidance from Vol'jin, but Vol'jin was like 'Nah, fuck this brown nigga'.
Actually, Garrosh was just a series of bad writing by Blizzard.
>>47491357
>Second best
Which one is the best for you?
>>47491450
Just because a movie is funny doesn't mean it isn't shit.
>>47490419
Apparently, the pre-sales in China are off the roof. Kinda explains why Wanda bought Legendary.
>>47491514
>"Succeeding you, father."
>>47491503
I thought they had him right at Cataclysm, but they fucked up after that.
>>47491536
Yeah, China's a cash cow for movies atm. It is almost the sole reason why we keep getting Transformers movies. So if Warcraft does well there, expect a sequel.
>>47491574
It makes me sad that we will never see a Pacific Rim sequel.
>>47491611
Stop reminding me. I want to believe. That was literally a perfect movie.
>>47491560
That's a pretty fucking great cutscene.
>>47491517
>Just because you enjoy something it doesn't mean you should enjoy it !
>>47491663
You can enjoy a bad movie.
>>47484944
>The political climate wasn't ready for Garrosh slamming his plot-armored face into everything he saw.
Fixed. The Hrode revamp in Cataclysm made me faction change. You know things have gone to shit when you gotta play Alliance to get that underdog feeling.
>>47484993
Go home, Matt war- I mean Kosak.
>>47485019
>>47485101
Just good ole' fashioned Fascism?
>>47491663
Oh no I love the shit out of Street Fighter, I just recognize it's shit.
Am I the only one who dislikes a lot of the artifact ideas? Like, two staffs from Guardians of Tirisfal, or amount of certain weapon types in general.
4 expansions since The Burning Crusade, and we still can't wield Gorefiend's Truncheon. I myself would prefer such 2 handed mace for Unholy Death Knights, rather than some 2 handed axe, without any true connection to greater lore.
>>47491679
DAILY REMINDER THATVICTORY FOR SYLVANAS
>>47491739
Fucking sylvanas should have died and stayed dead back in RoC
>>47491770
Show me yfw Sylvanas has died 3 times and is not only still going strong but is warchief.
>>47491770
But if she dies, the dreadlords will conquer Lordaeron and kill Kel'Thuzad.
>>47490589
Those are only a few minutes long and only get put out once every 1-2 years, and Blizz hires Blur Studios to do them, they don't make them themselves. Something even an hour long would be obscenely expensive unless they ramped down the quality a ton.
There's an idea though. Instead of burning millions upon millions on a big screen movie (live action or otherwise), why not do something in the style of the in-game cinematics? Make a web series out of it, then assets created for the show can double as in-game incentives to purchase the episodes/seasons. Buy the one with Acolytes, get their snazzy robes as a transmog set.
It would also be more flexible plotwise. You could have long seasons sold in a bundle that stick to retelling the games, and also standalone episodes covering things that would be fun to see but wouldn't fill a season on their own, like the war of the spider or Sargeras' fall.
>>47491842
I don't see how is that a bad thing. There's no hope left for it. Lordaeron suffered the final defeat withGarithos'death.
>>47491570
>I thought they had him right at Cataclysm, but they fucked up after that.
it's telling that the time when people liked Garrosh the most was when he was mostly being written by low-level quest designers who had no idea where Blizzard intended to take things. this is especially true of the stonetalon quest chain.
>>47491842
>implying Kelly Tuesdays wouldn't somehow get out of this and come out on top, like the ice cold motherfucker he is
>>47490589
an entire movie of Blizzard cinematic tier CGI would be one of the largest projects ever undertaken by the film industry. The 5 minute trailers they put out every 3 years cost millions and take ages to make
>>47491431
>Actually, he surrounded himself by Yes men and Blackrock orcs.
that was way after the Shattering though, in Mists. I mean between Wrath and Cata when he actually becomes Warchief
>>47491950
I know, but I'd rather have Kelly be in charge than those demonic freaks.
>>47492027
Well, the odds are stacked against him.
>>47491976
From what I understand the reason he turned into a Saturday morning cartoon villain was because he was so disliked by the fandom before Cataclysm and they decided to give him the boot but I don't know.
>>47492027
When will Kelly take over the forsaken?
Also is he going to be in Legion? This is important
>>47492086
I am trying to recall Prelude to Cataclysm, but all I recall is angry Cairne, Twilight Hammer stirring up troubles in Ashenvale, dumb Garrosh trusting Magatha Grimtotem with blessing Gorehowl, and that's all.
>>47492129
It really feels like WoW lore is written by 20 people completely isolated from each other and their peer's works.
>>47492115
>Well, the odds are stacked against him.
The odds are always stacked against the hero.
Makes for a better story.
>>47477869
I thought Garithos was possessed by a dreadlord (Balnazzar I think).
Which explains why he fucked up so much.
But why are we defending this asshole when it's obvious that the Scarlet Crusade did nothing wrong?
What trash mob has the most potential to be terrifying to a beginner party? I'm thinking of doing a town that consists entirely of Defias Brotherhood conspirators, eager to take down any adventurers looking to bag bounties.
Gnolls stalking and doing sneak attacks from the woods would also be fun, but I can't really see how to make bug-eyed Murlocs scary, same thing with Kobolds.
>>47492242
Some genuine, bona fide finnish holocaust denier fascist is defending him out of conviction.
Others defend him just to trigger elf-loving faggots.
>>47492368
Varg Vikernes is defending Garithos?
>>47492356
>but I can't really see how to make bug-eyed Murlocs scary,
the same way they were scary in vanilla. Running
I don't understand the point of making it so low level characters are nearly impossible to kill while also removing humanoid monsters running away
>>47492474
>Flee
>Come back with every single Murloc on the coast
Oh, I get it now.
Honestly, I wished the WoW overworld was actually scary and threatening, it'd make exploration a bit more fun and interesting.
>>47492505
It kinda was back in vanilla, when an undergeared player could legit be killed by a single regular same-level mob.
Anyway, while murlocs aren't scary in terms of looks, remember that they can launch fucking ridiculous surprise attacks against pretty much anything close to a body of water, and you're not gonna see them coming unless the waters are exceptionally clear. They're like stealthier cannibal vikings.
Kobolds are total cannon fodder, though.
>>47492356
Harpies. They're hard for melee-only characters to deal with, plus some use magic.
>>47492972
>It kinda was back in vanilla, when an undergeared player could legit be killed by a single regular same-level mob.
and it was nearly impossible to solo more than one mob unless you were a hunter or warlock
Looks like everyone's favorite Darkshire watcher now survives.
>>47492153
There hasn't been any sign of him since WoTLK, pretty sure Blizz is saving him for a future undead expansion or they just forgot about him (or don't know what to do with him)
