/btg/ is dead, long live /btg/!
Remember Coventry Edition
Old Thread: >>47413897
===================================
First Succession War
http://www.mediafire.com/download/dp9iiecoaz4c29k/E-CAT35235_BattleTech+First+Succession+War.pdf
TtS: Brownsville
https://mega.nz/#!7xMngZBR!d0Ayoy_8rDrtsXZ7-M6wGPrmDq8O8F5_0d4G8dkLxzM
===================================
>/btg/ does a TRO:
http://builtforwar.blog(not spam)spot.com/
>How do I do this Against the Bot thing?
http://pastebin.com/pE2f7TR5
>Overview of the major factions?
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/great-houses/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/the-clans/
http://bg.battletech.com/universe/other-powers/
>How do I find out what BattleMechs a faction has?
http://masterunitlist.info/
>Map of /btg/ players (WIP):
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=1116217&add=1
>BattleTech Introductory Info and PDFs
http://bg.battletech.com/?page_id=400
>Rookie guides
http://pastebin.com/HZvGKuGx
>Sarna.net - BattleTech Wiki
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page
>Megamek - computer version of BattleTech. Play with AI or other players
http://megamek.info/
Unit Designing Softwares
>SSW Mech Designer
http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/
>MegaMek Lab
http://megameklab.sourceforge.net/
>BattleTech IRC
#battletech on irc.rizon.net
>PDF Folders
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/9q792hobnbpw3/Battletech
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/sdckg6j645z4j/Battletech
I'm doing a Clan retrofit of a captured Panther -10K, and after swapping out the weapons and heat sinks I still have 3.5 tons left.
What should I use them for?
>>47452351
Max the armour. Replace the SRM-4 with an LRM-15 that has 2 tons of ammo. Add a DHS and an ER Medium Laser.
Or boost the speed to 5/8/5 and add 2 ER Mediums.
>>47452351
Active probe and Ecm if You use advanced rules from Tactical Operations.
I am trying to create a list of 3145 experimental tech. Already looked into 3145 NTNU and TRO:Prototypes. To this moment I got just a few things on the list: Har Jel II&III, Chameleon LPS, Null&Void Signature System, Interface Cockpit.
Do You know of any more experimental tech in 3145?
Also anybody knows why are Dragon II 11R and Hatamoto Godai from Kurita 3145 marked as experimental on their record sheets?
Regards and thanks in advance.
>>47452425
I maxed the armor, boosted to 5/8/5 and added an ER Med.
Ready for a death ride now.
>>47452436
I could swap out the ER Med for an ECM. I might just throw the AP on another mech in the Star (I have a Jenner and Spider left to play with).
>>47452191
I gotta say, I quite honestly did not remember Coventry. OldAnon is getting old, damn.
>New to Battletech
>First time playing will probably be today or tomorrow
>It's going to be on TTS
>>47450506
Looks promising.
The Clan retrofit Jenner is pretty much the same in terms of available space after swapping out the MLs for Clan ERMLs and the SRM-4 for a Clan SSRM-4. Switched to DHS of course. With only half a ton left I simply allocated it to more armour.
Spider was a little better, switching to DHS and swapping in Clan MPLs gave me one ton left which I allocated to hosting an Active Probe.
It's time to paint the galaxy purple lads.
>>47453703
already did it
>solitary
>charismatic
wasted traits
>>47453703
The crappy sector AI that builds over your improvements for no apparent reason is actually lore-friendly for the Free Worlds League.
>>47453753
Between that shit and the warscore I have to assume they didn't testplay the game before they released it.
>>47453782
Does this mean that the game is an official Battletech product?
>>47452474
I would prefer ap over ecm. For the added accuracy when firing through woods, also being able to detect mines can save Panther from death.
>>47452436
>Also anybody knows why are Dragon II 11R and Hatamoto Godai from Kurita 3145 marked as experimental on their record sheets?
Godai - It's MixTech, plus it's packing bC3.
11R - Mixtech again.
Mixing hasn't stopped being Experimental yet.
>>47454174
>Mixing hasn't stopped being Experimental yet.
Actually it has.
It goes from experimental to advanced in the Jihad tech advancement table in TRO Prototypes, and in RS 3145 NTNU's DA tech table, it becomes TL.
Case in point, look at the Avalanche N and R configs, simply labelled as Mixed [IS]. And BC3 is only advanced by the DA.
>>47454123
That's a good point but I threw it on the Star's Spider.
Does the LCT have any advantage over the RCT?
>>47455005
It's cheaper.
>>47454371
>>47454174
Yeah 3145 has many mixtech designs that are rated as advanced (not experimental).
So anybody else can explain this, or shall I bring it straight into errata/question on offical forums?
>>47455238
So I guess the AFFS has been operating on a reduced budget then.
>>47455529
I'd assume so. Unless that graft and corruption issue has reared its head again.
>>47453703
I've seen better.
Here's where that Crusader thing is at. Went for a narrower torso and bulked up the shoulder mounted missile pods. Also reworked the midsection to pay more homage to the original.
>>47455733
Damn, looks nice. The only thing missing is a catastrophic ammo explosion.
>>47455733
It's a little overpaneled at the hips compared to the shoulders and arms, but I really like what you've done with the face. Digging the shoulders too. Maybe refine the ass end of the laser housing a little? I know you're still in-pro on it, but making it asymmetric would emphasize the presence of the MGs and look a little less like a massive block of left-over sprue.
Just an idle question, but if Trent had never defected and Huntress hadn't been invaded and wrecked, what Home Clan do you think would have been the one most likely to absorb the Smoke Jaguars?
Star Adders?
Steel Vipers?
>>47456412
>if Trent had never defected and Huntress hadn't been invaded and wrecked, what Home Clan do you think would have been the one most likely to absorb the Smoke Jaguars?
They'd have wound up as a "heel" clan like the Spirits, kept around for the tradition of the thing (since they were still technically an honorable Clan) but largely used as target practice by someone. The Snakes were still busy dealing with the political fallout of trying to dick over the Falcons at the time, IIRC, and if they pulled too much attention off of the Burrocks and Spirits they'd have been in some serious fucking hurt.
>>47457247
I didn't think they'd be large enough to maintain viability, but you're probably right.
>>47457247
So is best clan completely and utterly extinct and gone in the current butteholdtech?
>>47457665
"Best Clan" implies that any of them are good.
>>47457950
Some of them were
>>47452191
Oh man, Coventry. I remember playing one of my first proper campaigns based on the old Battle For Coventry scenario pack. My unit was replacing the Crazy Eights, and I actually managed to change history and save the Waco Rangers.
That was a fun campaign
>>47457950
Your post implies your opinion is important
>>47453753
It built over your improvements because you didn't check the box that tells it not to.
dumping 4th edition mechs
>>47458708
>>47458708
I still have my books for that. Wish I still had the mechs.
>>47458736
what, the shitty cardboard ones?
>>47458724
>>47458736
I've still got all the die-cut cardboard stand-ups and use them sometimes, since I've not got many minis
>>47458780
If Yovnne's reforms weakened the AFFS, how is it they were able to hammer the Confederation in the Victoria War and pry Victoria itself away from them?
>>47458797
>>47458817
>>47458797
Man, that Hermes II is a lot better than the original
>>47458836
>>47458842
most of these mechs, if not all, look better than the original
>>47458857
>>47458894
>>47458816
CCAF didn't want to tip its hand to the RotS. If they'd pulled out loads of hidden units they'd have found themselves in a much vaster war.
Also Wizkids reasons. The map had to be made sense of.
>>47458909
>>47458933
>>47458816
>If Yovnne's reforms weakened the AFFS, how is it they were able to hammer the Confederation in the Victoria War and pry Victoria itself away from them?
Because they fucked up the AFFS, but not completely and utterly so
>>47458909
Damn that's a beautiful Awesome. Properly built like a brick shithouse.
>>47458924
>If they'd pulled out loads of hidden units they'd have found themselves in a much vaster war.
I thought overall if the Republic tried to pick a fight with a Great House that they'd come out worse for wear at the very least?
>>47458894
It certainly has the best Quickdraw and Cyclops. The Atlas is pretty good, too
>>47455275
You know how it often gets said that CGL crowd-sources their proof-reading and fact-checking? Yeah, that.
>>47455529
Everyone has.From an objective standpoint the idea behind the LCT isn't even that bad since an LCT is supposed to be more tightly integrated than a RCT and thus better at mixed-forces operations.
>>47456412
Steel Vipers had their own philosophy that probably wouldn't deal well with an influx of hard-core Crusaders. The Star Adders were still digesting the Burrocks.
It'd probably go something like Asa Taney calling for the right to Absorb them, being smug and thinking his Clan was relevant, and then the Jade Falcons winning the bid and being given the right to Absorb the Jaguars. The Falcons were positioned to replace the Jaguars pretty blatantly in the Twilight of the Clans arc, where they get nearly a third of the total page time. And more than the actual Jags.
>>47459000
Trips tell truth.
Last time these were posted, an anon said it looked like 'an angry municipal building', which I think about covers it
>>47459007
Not when another Great House is already invading their foe. Plus muh Stone's Brigade and pet Clanners.
>>47459007
Just the republic, sure. Problem is, the republic has the ghost bears on speed dial and that's some major bad business
>>47459138
>Stone's Brigade and pet Clanners
Where were they when the Confederation and Combine came knocking the third time around?
>>47459007
It's surprising the RotS beat the Capellans given the presence of Coleman and ETERNAL XIN SHENG but that's mostly due to OOC considerations.
The Republic's military is about as strong as any one house. The problem is that they're surrounded by five houses and they hold a lot of worlds with historical significance (Liao, Deiron) or vital manufacturing sites that the Houses would love to have back. Like the post-Amaris SLDF, they can stop one invader but if any House makes a serious attack on them the others will scramble to keep up and the Republic military can't hold off all five at once.
But if the chips really go down the RotS is counting on the Bears and the Suns to back their plays, which mostly leaves the Lyrans and FWL to worry about given who neighbours the rest.
>>47459212
During the post-Stone era Blackout?
>>47455733
Looks pretty nice.
If you're done with this design, would anybody be interested in making a 3D-printable version?
Cause I'd sure as hell buy one or two as long as they weren't ridiculously expensive.
>>47459239
Why would they depend on the Suns of all factions given they downsized the AFFS and their leaders support Stone's disarmament programs?
Also, I'm surprised the Bears would be able to contribute anything worthwhile given they're surrounded by three or four hostile powers.
>>47459253
Yes, the third time around referring to the Confederation.
>>47453703
>stellaris
>>47459408
>Why would they depend on the Suns
The Suns committed to the draw-down program because they knew the RotS would come to their aid if shit got real. You don't meed to go to the effort of bulking up yourself if you know the RotS will jump to your aid so you already outnumber the enemy regardless. The shitstorm the Suns finds itself in at the moment is due in no small part to the Republic bailing on them because they were under too much pressure from all sides whereas a more normal conflict would only feature two factions duking it out and having a third weigh in firmly in favour of another has a major impact.
A lot gets made of the "downsizing" of the AFFS but really it kept pace with everyone else. Nobody could readily afford to return to the 70-80 regiment forces they had prior to the Jihad after it, 30-odd was about all they could support any way. Where they fell down was not having magical warehouses like the Capellans and Caleb getting the AFFS fucked in the ass on Palmyra.
With the Bears, it's the Bears. The idolise Stone, they love the Republic, and they've hardly lost a single fight since their introduction. They're strong enough with forces and narrative weight that they could hold off everyone on their borders combined and still fuck up another faction.
They're a bit like the FedCom, they're so strong compared to everyone else that if they get involved it should logically only end one way.
>tfw xin sheng killed the CC's russian flavor
>tfw you will never sing this song with your russian capellan bros
feels bad, бpaт
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX8qhZlsMKo
>>47459714
I thought the Russian was still there in their military design, thinking and some worlds that have slavic names like Tikonov?
>>47459714
Cyka blyat
>>47459606
Out of the ashes of Kentares comes first sorrow, then anger.
"The only good Drac is a dead Drac!"
On New Avalon, the Federal Council convenes.
"We must meet the threat with our valor, our blood, indeed with our very lives, to ensure that Caucasoid civilization, not Mongoloid, dominates this sphere now and always!"
First Prince Davion announces plans for an offensive against Klathandu, source of the Drac army that destroyed Kentares.
Everyday Federal scientists are looking for new ways to kill Dracs.
"Your basic Drac warrior isn't too smart. You blow off a limb and it's still 86% combat effective. Here's a tip, aim for the cockpit and put it down for good."
>>47459731
The names for people, planets, and some designs are all that's left.
In Xin Sheng people were getting cosmetic surgery to appear more Chinese and anyone or anything who wasn't Chinese enough was regarded with suspicion.
And that was back when Xin Sheng was just starting out, the Dark Age has had almost 100 years of it.
>>47459797
I thought that was meant to be a historical allegory to how China turned things around after centuries of being victimized at the hands of foreign nations and powers, which is something the Confederation seems to have as a theme given their track record in conflicts.
>>47460061
Not entirely. There was an element of that but the most visible and far-reaching part of Xin Sheng was the WE SPACE CHINA NOW thing.
You gotta fight in a Succession War as a mechwarrior.
Which war?
Which 'mech?
Which faction?
Today has been a good day for BT.
>Received my second package of Russian goodies.
>Shad looks better than I hoped.
>Play a simple 2 'mechs per side game in the afternoon that ends up in a sort-of draw (moral loss for me); Vindi and Rifleman both missing a leg in bad positions vs a gyroless Panther in a good firing position wouldn't go anywhere fast after the Grand Dragon fell.
>Start a demo game for a MWO player, but take out the cockpit on his Atlas on like turn 3 or 4. Time for some new forces and a restart.
>2 Mobile Clanners vs 4 much heavier IS 'mechs, ~5K BV each before making all pilots 3/4 instead of 4/5.
>He lasers (ERML) my Grand Dragon in the head on turns 1 and 2. RIP.
>Adder overheats a bit too much, allowing a Battlemaster to get within brawling range. It blasts off a leg, pilot gets knocked out in the fall.
>Panther also gets lasered out of existence, but the Clanners end up with a hard-fought loss.
How have your recent BT games gone?
>>47460518
>How have your recent BT games gone?
Got lumbered playing a Lyran OpFor. My Hollander failed a 3+ skid check and tore out the torso the GR was mounted in, triggering the GR to explode. Then later that turn the Fafnir I had failed its 3+ pilot check (after whiffing on its 5+ to-hits at short range against a Light that blundered under its guns), fell sideways, and critted out its left HGR. Pilot is out like a light and gets his head kicked in the next turn.
So not well, I think is what I'm saying.
>>47459408
>Yes
Then it should be self-explanatory.
>>47460444
>Which war?
Fourth
>Which 'mech?
Marauder-3D
>Which Faction?
MoC. I get to watch the capellans get shat on from great heights without having to fight anything more dangerous than a bunch of shit-tier pirates. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me
>>47459330
Wait long enough and there will be the new official Crusader.
How common do you guys think that all-tank mercenary units would be?
I feel like they'd be about as common as mech-only units, maybe more so at the low end
>>47461288
Since you've redoing all the Unseen, do you think that shimseen Unseen IICs will ever be a thing?
>>47459636
>Nobody could readily afford to return to the 70-80 regiment forces they had prior to the Jihad after it
Well they could, they'd rebuilt from far worse. But the plot demanded they not, so they didn't.
>>47461296
I think they'd be more used in riot-suppression or security roles given how vulnerable vehicles are to 'Mechs. They're easier to get a hold of and maintain but 'Mechs will really tear through vees so it would pay to keep them as far from the front lines as possible.
How tall are battle armours supposed to be in general?
>>47461584
About 7-8 feet
>>47461296
Probably there's be a lot of them, but aside from specialists (assault-weight anti-mech guys, VTOLs, conventional fighter wings, special recon units) they'd almost exclusively be used for security duty, like >>47461448 says
>>47461623
This probably works for IS suits.
Elementals that are only 8'4"* are considered short. Clan suits probably start at like 9' and go up from there.
*Santin West is 250cm-ish tall and his relative lack of height is noted in the novels.
>>47461623
>>47461737
That works well enough for me. have been comparing the miniatures and unsurprisingly whilst far too huge for 6mm infantry both Gnome and Longinus suits have heads at the same height.
So nuts to making it more accurate than one BA = 1 story of a building (I'm thinking for terrain building).
>>47460444
>You gotta fight in a Succession War as a mechwarrior.
>Which war?
Third. No serious action for my faction, and the planet is pretty much left alone finally.
>Which 'mech?
Mongoose. I love that crazy little bitch. Alternately, probably a Shadow Hawk. Solid, cheap, comfy.
>Which faction?
Com Guard. No action other than covert ops and thumb-twiddling. Sitting at Sandhurst fucking around on 'Mech sims all day is actually pretty close to what I'd consider the perfect job.
>>47462090
The post says you have to fight in the war, not just outside of it in sims and the like.
>>47455005
Well, personally, I always found the LCT-1E to be a damn fine recon mech and spotter.
>>47458842
That's not really that hard, the original was goddamn hideous even by TR3025 standards. Tiny baby flamer arm just looked too damn wrong.
>>47459786
Oops, should've replaced Klandathu with Luthien. Still quality though.
>>47460061
More like a historical allegory to the Cultural Revolution.
sweet swag
>>47461329
No idea. Personally I wouldn't want to do them immediately after all the IS versions. I need a break lol.
>>47462578
now I'm sad I hadn't the money at the time
>>47462578
>House Marik
>"We Stand United"
Somebody call the techs, I just keked out both my side torsos.
>>47462645
The Replevin Doctrine must be in force.
>>47462579
No, you need cyberware. You must become stronger, faster, better, able to create entire images in under an hour.
>>47462699
>Shimbo
>working fast
Pic related.
>Paul Masters brings his custom Phoenix Hawk with him on Operation Serpent
>drops onto Huntress in an Anvil -3M
poor guy
>>47463289
They had to give the Jags a fighting chance, anon.
>>47463655
Those honorable Knights, man.
>>47463687
CGL/WizKids were utter, utter faggots to kill them off in the jihad that way
quick question
can artillery cannons use nuclear ammo?
>>47463893
I usually don't balk at how a unit goes but yeah it was pretty gay. Granted I may be off in thinking this, but part of me always wondered if there was some OOC dislike of the unit that resulted in them getting gassed instead of being able to go down fighting some against-the-odds battle.
I'm reading the "Twilight of the Clans" books for the first time and I find them an interesting unit. For example, despite having never fought the Clans before it's Masters and his staff that put together the solid OpFor strategy on Defiance. The first time the Knights are designated as the Jaguar OpFor they roll over an elite Eridani Light Horse regiment and "kill" Ariana Winston and Morgan Hasek-Davion. It's a cool moment in the BT books I've read so far.
>>47463919
No. They can use thermobarics, though
>>47464029
I think they died more for the message than for an OOC dislike.
The Knights were "honourable, limited warfare" personified and they went out like a bunch of punks to a WoB chemical attack. It was about as clear a message they could send without FanPro/CGL literally devoting a page to saying "And now shit is going to get real. WoB will be using WMDs, chemical weapons, and war crimes like they're going out of style and nobody will know how to deal with this shit. Get used to it."
OTOH it's not like we could have missed the message given the rest of the Jihad so it's certainly on the pointlessly gratuitous side.
>>47464141
>OTOH it's not like we could have missed the message given the rest of the Jihad so it's certainly on the pointlessly gratuitous side.
Exactly. The magic bullet bioweapons and early nuke-tossing established WoB's methods.
Gassing the Knights comes off like a "fuck you" to players. It didn't help that Paul Masters joined a list of characters we never really got closure or an ending to, despite being a main or prominent character in at least four novels. Yeah Apollyon implied he was dead but it would have been at least decent to give him a last bow.
>>47464141
>I think they died more for the message than for an OOC dislike.
I think it's both, really. Given that literally all of CGL's Battletech stuff reflects a certain vision of the Battletech universe, which seems to basically be neverending Congo+Yugoslav wars with giant robots, there is evidently a certain degree of preference for that sort of thing and rather a bit of active *dislike* for the old 'knights in giant robots' Battletech, and given CGL's ways, I don't think it's a stretch to say there was definite insult intended, in a "You liked this? Fuck you, because it's over and were going to smash everything to do with it" sort of way
>>47464141
>went out like a bunch of punks to a WoB chemical attack.
And were destroyed by fellow Free World's League units at that.
Who did Chandrasekhar Kurita leave his fortune to ?
And why are the Black Dragons so opposed to Theodore' reforms? Are they not aware those reforms are part of the reason that the Combine survived both FedCom and Clan aggression?
All things considered, getting rid of feudal battles and introducing real wars was one of the best decisions TPTB made, both lore and gameplay-wise.
Some of you will disagree with meand that's fine, we are civilized and we can deal with different opinions [\spoiler] but I take the edginess of the "War is hell, everyone is fucked up" atmosphere the most recent products have over the "Knights in mechs" feel (and, IMO, a very childish feel) with clearly defined good and bad guys from the early products.
At the end of the day nothing of this matters, so enjoy your robots.
>>47465201
Man, I fucked up the spoiler. Sorry, but I'm not reposting it. Take another robot instead
>>47465201
The problem with that is that battletech doesn't make any fucking sense without the limited-war, civilians don't get targeted shit. Witness all the arguments about nukes and massed artillery and conscript armies and how the answers always amount to "if we allow logical total war thinking in BattleTech, it'd break the setting"
>>47465201
My beef with that is that there's already a fuckton of "everything is shit, war is hell, nothing good happens, no hope, no fun" sci-fi settings. Some of them even have giant robots. There are no other settings like old Battletech, and dropping that for yet another bland shithole setting is a real bummer for those of us who liked Battletech for it, cause now the only options are going grog or giving up
>>47465085
You're talking about a bunch who buy into "death before dishonor". They'd probably rather see the Combine fall as long as they get to be MAXIMUM HONARABUR.
>>47459330
I'm not yet done. I'll be posting an MWO style ortographic version of this robbit once I get the base concept done.
Then, depending on time constraints/ availability of programmes, I could 3d-model the thing.
>>47465085
>why are the Black Dragons so opposed to Theodore' reforms
The Camacho's Caballeros books describe this a lot. Basically it's partly because Teddy K's reforms go so much against the established norms, partly because they are in positions of power and/or money and are afraid they lose it. The majority of the Kokuryu-kai supporters are military people of the MAX HONORABRU sort, zaibatsu boss types and old school Yakuza bosses, and all of them feel they were screwed by Teddy: the military people by the military reforms (and the Rasalhague debacle), the zaibatsu bosses because of the larger trade with the old traditional enemies (young Turks usurping their position), the Yaks because Teddy gave power to the young bucks (Ghost Regiments and stuff). Add to that the old guard ISF who's afraid that if it's not all oppression all the time and you'll have a revolution, and it's a real fucking problem.
Chandy explains it in the books: the Black Dragons have been around since forever, but before, every time they got too stroppy they were slapped down. Now they've gotten really anxious, what with Rasalhague going independent and the Clans eating up the Combine, and they weren't going to back down even if there were purges and the traditional slapping down.
>>47456412
Nah, pre-abjurment bullshittery, the Nova Cats had one of the largest toumans in the Clans. If the Jags got an Absorption called against them, my money would be on the Cats being the most likely ones to take it to them.
Unless of course somehow the Hellions managed to pull some clever bidding out of their hats, in which case you'd watch the two most rabid Clans gut themselves to oblivion (to the benefit of everyone else, of course).
>>47465538
This anon? This anon speaks truth.
>>47466678
huh. that is actually a legit explanation.
why they have enough support to get anywhere is still nonsense, but their motivation actually makes sense
>>47455733
awesome. cant wait for legs to be done, i put the early version in the lance image for the other guy, he's loving it so far.
>>47467049
That's explained also. Number one: it's easy to forget that the Combine's a big nation, so there are enough powerful people to have more BD supporters. Number two: it's not that they have so much power, it's about the position those supporters have. Notable Black Dragons include the capo di tutti capi of at least one province, a district warlord and a major leading light of the industry (I'm not going to spoil the other big people if you're planning on reading the Caballeros books). People in those positions have a lot of power and a lot of pull.
It gets even worse when you have a leadership crisis and one of them goes straight for the wellspring of power and declares himself the Kanrei with nobody opposing him.
Also, whilst the pro-Teddy ISF types were going against the Kokuryu-kai - there's a mention in one of the books how an ISF agent had arranged a "skiing accident" for a successful BD recruiter - there were major cock-ups as well. For instance, after the Hachiman debacle, the ISF thought it was the Dragons' last hurrah and they were a spent force, like always in the past after the traditional slapping down. Unfortunately, it wasn't. Also Teddy mentions that even if you wanted to get rid of all the questionable types, you would have to follow the societal norms. They were simply too powerful to simply disappear or have skiing accidents.
I have a bit of a question that I don't think I've seen discussed before: What were the attitudes of people in the various successor states to the periphery nations that DIDN'T border their own?
like what lyrans would think of the MoC, or dracs of the taurians, or the FWL of the OA?
for period, say the Clan invasion, 3050s
>>47462578
It is the camera or the Marik banner look shorter than Davion and Liao.
>>47468757
Now that you point it out, in both photos it looks like the banners are random lengths. Don't know if it's a camera angle problem or not.
>>47466862
Even if the Cats weren't defecting to the SLDF their culture is different enough that I wouldn't see them wanting to bother with absorbing the Jags.
And abjurement bullshittery?
>>47466862
I doubt Nova Cat would be willing to take in their arch nemesis, but you never know what those carzy cats will get up to what with them SPIRIT QUESTS
>>47466678
>Add to that the old guard ISF who's afraid that if it's not all oppression all the time and you'll have a revolution
To be fair this is a legitimate fear because HB: HK didn't walk back the retardation of earlier sources and there's been no Xin Sheng/HB: HL unfucking of their social order.
If the ISF aren't all repression all the time the class system would fall apart overnight.
>>47467259
Black Dragons (or traditionalists who are so firmly in favour of the Dragon philosophies they may as well be full-on members) actually are that common though. In the Jihad at least a third of the DCMS are revealed to be Black Dragons, with enough traditionalists or commands whose loyalty was never fully explained to bring the total to over half. Plus the Jihad-era stuff making it plain that the Gunji-no-Kanrei and ISF head are Black Dragons, and every Black Dragon purge was done by Black Dragons, eliminating more Drac/Kurita loyalists by far than Black Dragons any way.
>>47469346
I could see the Cats doing to the Jags what the Jags did to Clan Mongoose- an Annihilation under the guise of an Absorption, more or less. They really hated the Jags.
For the Abjuration thing he's talking about, the Home Clans were pissed by the Nova Cats' change of loyalties and launched major assaults on them there that cost them a fair portion of their forces. The Cats at the time seemed to be somewhere around the 40-50 Cluster mark.
>>47458768
>what, the shitty cardboard ones?
>shitty
Bitch, the Dervish never looked better than >>47458857. They based the Primitive DV-1S off it in The Blake Documents and it was fuckin DIAMONDS.
>>47469420
Well the Cats did basically do that in the OZ by supporting the SLDF. But with them defecting it never would have panned out in the homeworlds so it doesn't really work.
And I don't see how the HC reaction was bullshit just because they didn't go along with it.
>>47469445
With an Abjurement there's meant to be a period of time where the target is allowed to GTFO but I don't know off-hand what that length of time was or if it was followed in the case of the Cats.
The Home Clans seem to have dropped the hammer on them instantly which is understandable but goes a bit against the intent of an Abjuration.
I think the Clans would have rather called for an Annihilation of the Cats but that would require them to go into the IS in pursuit of them, after the Great Refusal. The Clans that were large and powerful enough to go after the Cats were also smart enough to know that the Sphere would defend the Cats (if for no other reason than to reinforce the Great Refusal's results) and didn't want to deal with that.
Thus, an Abjurement but running a de facto Annihilation against their Homeworld assets. A bit like the Star Adders running a de facto Annihilation against the Spirits.
>>47469486
Yeah I know. It all fit so I don't see how its bullshit.
The Abjurement time was about a month, and yeah some of the HC's jumped the gun because everyone wanted in on the spoils and knew the Cats couldn't defend everything with most of their touman in the Inner Sphere. Makes sense.
>>47469420
>Plus the Jihad-era stuff making it plain that the Gunji-no-Kanrei and ISF head are Black Dragons
Wait, the ISF boss too? I thought the Jihad-era boss was the ex-Sorenson's Sabres fellow, who definitely wasn't a Black Dragon. The Kanrei was BD though, he's the one I mentioned before about self-appointing himself to the job.
>>47469504
To correct myself, three months.
>>47468651
Longstanding common IS opinions of the Periphery in general has long been that they're a bunch of bumpkins/hicks/pirates/barbarians. Also a healthy dose of apathy by the 3050s, since the IS and periphery mostly left each other alone during the Succession Wars.
On the periphery's part, the common view is the IS are a bunch of elitist dicks, led by power mad assholes.
>>47469515
Shakir Jerrar was very close to the Kanrei and everything he did in his tenure hurt the loyalists and helped the Dragons.
The writers trying to claim he isn't a Black Dragon is, IMO, very much in "the lady doth protest too much" territory.
The Jenner looks so weird. Is there a mech that looks weirder?
>>47469562
Pick your poison.
>>47469655
We need to go weirder.
>>47469881
Blitzkreig, Blood Kite?
>Kline: Attention, all Kindraa enclaves: This is the Twenty-first Vanguard Battle Cluster. We have just received a batchall from the Seventy-eighth Hellion Lancers. Do any of you cowards wish to add your strength to our bid?
>Payne: Assuming this is not a Liberation Day prank, you tied your own rope, Kline. Go hang yourselves with it.
>Beyl-Grant: We shall rejoice watching the Hellions oust you from this planet. No hard feelings, quiaff?
>Payne: When you lose your enclave, Kline, feel free to challenge us for one of our broom closets.
>Beyl-Grant: [chortles] And our merchants might have some beachfront property they would be willing to—Hold a moment… Incoming transmission… [extended silence] Stravag! The Fortieth Hellion Lancers have just issued us batchall!
>Payne: [extended silence] …Us also, from the 200th Attack Cluster. Looks like you got your wish, Kline.
>—Transcript of communications between Fire Mandrill enclaves on Foster, 26 May 3050
How did the Fire Mandrills survive more than a century?
>>47469913
Somebody called for the best 'Mech?
>>47470154
By feuding more with each other than with other Clans. I don't think they had anyone who really hated them but then nobody other than the Blood Spirits really liked them either.
>>47469504
By bullshit I was referring to that entire storyline the Cats were put through, nothing more, nothing less. I'm not talking about any specific point along the way.
>>47470154
>>47470492
That, and they really were one of the hardest fighting of the Clans, at least in the fluff. Also, later info on them tends to play up the 'we hates each other' angle more than previously written. The Mandrills didn't start out as a meme clan in the fluff, but they ended as one.
Would a Clan garrison or reserve cluster be mostly IIC variants, Star League-era battlemechs, or a liberal mix of the two?
And what are some common or popular SL-era mechs with the Clans? IIRC they disliked some mechs like the Exterminator.
Lastly, with SL battlemechs in the Clans are they deployed as vintage rides or upgraded with Clantech?
>>47462578
>Caps
>ONE VISION ONE PURPOSE
>>47471153
Depends on the Clan.
Resource-poor Clans like the Blood Spirits have a much higher rate of SLDF machines than rich ones like the Ghost Bears who will be using Second-Line and IIC designs. Then you've got the Coyotes who even have Omnis in their garrison or reserve forces.
SL 'Mechs are kept in their old configurations and not upgraded because reasons, even though the Clans aren't manufacturing that gear any more and they can't accept the same ammo as modern weapons. Personally I would just "IIC" everything with upgrades that stay close to the SLDF design's philosophy but consistency isn't a strong point in the lore there.
Aside from the IICs which 'Mechs Clans like varies based on the Clan. Anything their Founders fought in will have that going for it so you can imagine things like the Falcons liking the Black Knight. Otherwise just things that fit their usual preferences, so mid-speed jumping stuff for the Falcons, fast stuff for the Wolves and Hellions, heavier stuff for the Bears, etc.
Do the clans have any other 70 ton omnimechs or battlemechs other than the Summoner during the clan invasion era?
>>47471649
nope
>>47471649
>wanting anything other than the Summoner
>>47471942
I usually don't judge people, but you should get your face checked. There is weird ass green stuff on it
>>47471649
Guillotine IIC, Grizzly, Bowman, and at the ass end of the Invasion era, Nova Cat.
If you're wanting something for Revival proper, the Bowman wouldn't show up at all, the Grizzly probably wouldn't show up in numbers outside the Bears, and probably few if any Guillotines would be around.
>>47471942
I've been reading the Caballeros books again, and it still makes me chuckle when they mention Franklin Sakamoto and his adventures with the First Somerset Strikers. I wish I remember the book where they first took the line that the cartoon was a propaganda piece. Also, wasn't there a bit about even the Clans watching the show?
Guess I should post an update on this thing.
Still need to do a lot of cleanup, but I'm curious to know if the legs are taking the right direction.
>>47473872
Looks nice. This is the -3R variant?
>>47474207
Yep.
>>47473657
Wars of Reaving had the Wolves in the intro story joking about it.
>>47474434
What? Really? Give me the specific name of the book, I have to read this myself.
>>47474587
Wars of Reaving.
Are there any noted tank engagements of Clan Invasion?
>>47476098
Nope. Clans didn't use tanks in their front line units, and on literally 100% of occasions, IS tank units folded like a cheap table if clanners so much as looked at them because reasons
>>47476098
Not really. They all go about like this:
>Honk honk, we tonks
Clanners: Lol.
>pew pew
>No tonks.
>>47470154
They had the Crimson Langur. You don't fuck with the Langur.
>>47476460
Seriously, that fucking thing is the only reason we Spirits liked them.
>>47476767
Blood Spirits should have gone farther innawoods, so they might have lived.
I want to build a lance that's all mercenary all the time, no designs affiliated with any of the great houses or SLDF, and preferably with decent well-roundedness. anything up to 3062 is good. Any suggestions?
>>47477487
But they did
Should I remember every thread about the Triumvirate?
>>47477651
>the Triumvirate?
?
I don't think I've ever heard about that. Is this a ISP series thing?
>>47469426
the art is great. but two dimensional cardboard is shit for miniatures.
>>47477618
Here are your options that I can think of, leaving out dragoon exclusives
>Bandersnatch
>Merlin
>Lineholder
>Cronus
>Gallowglas
>Marshal (unaffiliated, but I'm not sure if the taurians were selling them to mercs, so only a maybe)
>Marauder II
Some of the Solaris designs might also be possible, most likely a Koto, which would also be the only light mech that I can think of that fits your criteria
>>47477859
Most of the standard old Mechs are pretty unaffiliated too. Marauders, Warhammers, Crusaders, Thunderbolts. Especially the -R variants from TR 3025. Everyone has some of them.
>>47477985
>Most of the standard old Mechs are pretty unaffiliated too. Marauders, Warhammers, Crusaders, Thunderbolts. Especially the -R variants from TR 3025. Everyone has some of them.
Yeah, but I figured that the whole "no SLDF association" thing would count them out
>>47477700
No. It is part of a Dark Age novel (blood avatar) and that was also scrapped from the original Wars of Reaving, but afawk they aren't completely scrapped.
The Triumvirate is a secret cabal that is supposed to protect the Republic. In the book they don't explain shit, buy we know that there's a secret organization somehow related to the Republic whose insignia is heavily based on the Blood Spirits blood drop. There's also a woman named Kodza, anagram of the BS bloodname Zadok, that is responsible for the entire thing going on in the book.
The scrapped WoR doc, released by Ben Home some time ago, explain at least what they had planned for explain who where the Triumvirate: somewhere between the Reavings a WoB vessel, disguised as civilian, finds a BS community. The Society infiltrated in the community gets interested on them and in the end there is some kind of Society/WoB/Blood Spirits integration.
In the end of the war the (corrupted) Blood Spirits, along with the Scorpions and a Mandrill kindraa forms a new group named Triumvirate. They leave the HW Clan Council and starts a fight with the Star Adders. Then the draft ends.
That's it. Unless CGL scraps this plot you can expect to see the Spirits once more. And sorry for eventual gramatical errors
>>47478062
CGL doesn't scrap plots. They just totally forget they existed.
>>47478399
Like the Black Thorns?
>>47478831
Or the FWLN. Or most of the dangling plot threads that they did in with the Donner Bombing
>>47478897
or the regular FWLM too. A solid chunk of it was unaddressed until the very end or post-Jihad era when they had to stop and figure out where every command should end up.
If the Lyran Commonwealth and Federated Suns swelled their armies and got what production they have left into swing like they had pre-Jihad, could they repulse the threats currently pressing into their nations?
>>47479294
Suns, probably. Lyrans are fighting tougher foes and are already handicapped by having Lyran leadership.
>>47479316
I would have thought the Lyrans would have picked up something useful for the purpose of combating Clan aggression given they've been living with them on their borders for well over eight decades.
>>47479294
Suns, most assuredly. If the lyrans dedicated their impressive industry to rebuilding a space force, definitely. Mechs alone wouldn't be enough to save them
>>47479399
Part of the problem though is that aforementioned Lyran leadership imported an extra Clan for them to fight on another border.
>>47479443
>rebuilding a space force
I thought they were already trying to do that with Pocket WarShips?
>>47479488
What was the purpose of doing that again?
I find it hard to believe that the Marik-Stewart Commonwealth was that imposing that an in tact Successor State (Lyran Commonwealth) needed the assistance of a Clan to aid them in conquering it.
>>47479519
>Lyran leadership
pretty much explains it
>>47479493
Well, sort of. Problem is that they didn't buile ENOUGH, or enough fighters to screen them.
Did Stone's disarmament programs apply to Clan Wolf-In-Exile?
Bit of a WI question about the DA, inspired by this one:
If the MoC and TC had avoided capellan influence, and had then avoided getting utterly wrecked in the jihad, how important of independent players would they have been in the Dark Age?
And for that matter, how would the OA have turned out if they hadn't gone for the Raven's merger?
>>47479640
I assume if they had avoided Capellan influence then the Magistracy would be weaker than it is today and the Concordat would be whole, but largely the anti-Davion power it's always been.
Still things might be a boon for the Concordat in the Dark Age as it's unlikely they'd go along with Stone's Disarmament and would have to contend with a weaker Federated Suns than they have in previous times (if that even means anything).
In the case of the Outworld's Alliance, not much has really changed, even with the integration of the Ravens so little would likely change over-all if they didn't integrate.
Slow day, huh?
>>47479640
They'd both be mid-tier powers, say about even with the FWL leftover states.
The taurians would probably be in a bit of an economic slump with the arms business being pretty slow in the lead up to the DA, but they'd get a big upswing in the start of the DA.
The MoC would have been a bit behind technologically up till the late 60s/post jihad era, but the taurians wouldn't be too much so, since the capellans didn't actually really help them. It wouldn't be a real problem by the DA, aside from the obvious lack of clantech
The two of them being away from cappie influence would basically necessitate their leaders in the 50-60s being the anti-capellan ones, namely J.Calderon and I'm not sure who in the MoC, so there's a decent chance the taurians might be actively hostile to the capellans, which could be a problem for their various wars, since they'd need to keep troops on the taurian border to keep them honest, which could weaken the invasion of the FS some
How did the Blakist have the numbers to wage war on the entire Inner Sphere?
What was stopping the Successor States from converging on them with overwhelming force the second they started making trouble in their respective domains?
>>47480784
>How did the Blakist have the numbers to wage war on the entire Inner Sphere?
They didn't. That's why they tried to capture/destroy the various industrial centers of the IS.
>What was stopping the Successor States from converging on them with overwhelming force the second they started making trouble in their respective domains?
The other Successor States, as the WoB stirred up enough trouble to start several border skirmishes/civil wars.
New player question here.
Are the Iron Wind Metal faction packs a good deal? I've already got the intro box and inherited a collection of dark age clix, so the lance/star boxes would be for expanding out.
>>47481754
I bought some.
They're alright I guess.
They forgot a Viper from one and sent a Ryoken II instead. Emailed them, got them to send me a Viper. Try to do that I guess, free stuff is nice right?
>>47481754
Last I checked the Alpha Strike and Era Report packs from IWM were 20% off what it would cost to buy the contents separately, so as long as you want all four 'mechs it's a good way to expand a collection. The old 'Mech Packs are a little less reliably discounted.
The big savings on any of the packs was that they don't charge the archive fee for any OOP figures they included, but that's less of a big deal now that they've discontinued the archive fee.
>>47479613
Not really, they were small any way.
>>47479640
The TC and MoC would probably have militaries on par in size with the Suns and Capellans.
The OA would be puttering along quite happily.
Big change might before the FedSuns here actually since without the Ravens there's no way for the Dracs to wreck the AFFS.
>>47480784
They didn't wage a conventional war. Their military was much larger than really makes sense (in b4 >muh Terra, >muh Hidden Worlds, that shit was invented whole cloth to provide fig-leaf justification) but more of a WMD-heavy terror campaign with a lot of drive-by attacks aimed at disrupting the other factions and relatively limited invasions and occupations.
That left everyone else in trouble logistically and strategically, with attacks on their transport elements to further slow them down. Also as noted the WoB stirred up border and civil conflicts everywhere and it took people until like 3072 to realise who was actually at fault and start calming shit down.
Really though a lot of the Jihad doesn't make sense but has to happen because of the level of destruction the DA material says happened but the original plan from FASA was for a much more limited Jihad, hence the WoBs much more limited forces and capabilities in fluff through to the 3067 era.
CGL did a pretty good job of polishing a turd with that but no matter how shiny it is it's still a turd.
>>47481754
Important minor detail, the only clix minis that are the right scale for BT are the infantry. The mechs and vehicles are too big to work on a standard hex map.
>>47482133
>they've discontinued the archive fee
Heh, so they finally noticed that they were getting their customers to say, "well, fuck that, I'll go buy from that recaster on eBay", eh?
>>47482964
Apparently it's a space thing. They moved to a larger warehouse so they have room to keep all the molds on site, whereas before they apparently stored the archives elsewhere. To be fair, the criteria for a mold to be moved to archive was crazy low, something like less than 5 units sold in a year.
>>47482929
>Important minor detail, the only clix minis that are the right scale for BT are the infantry. The mechs and vehicles are too big to work on a standard hex map.
Well, the Phoenix Hawk is actually about perfect for BT (see top right), and so is the Dig Lord, but by and large they're still useless.
Would it be unusual for a merchant DropShip operating in the periphery to employ a lance-to-company or so of mechs and tanks for security on the ground on less-safe worlds?
>>47484834
It would have to be a rather wealthy merchant to afford such protection and logistics, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
>>47484834
Depending on the mercs, yeah, sure. The profit margins on a bucc or mule could eat the wages and maintenance of a lance of mechwarriors and support staff without really impacting the bottom line at all. If they were a seperate outfit under contract and not directly employed by the ship's captain, they'd cost a bit more, though not a ton. Plus, you could probably get mercs as would be going where you're going would work very cheap or free for transport there for free, though that'd only be a temporary thing
>>47484834
Maybe a lance, and they'd have to be fairly rich and paranoid to go that far. When you get to company scale, well that's a business by itself.
>>47484834
No. It'd actually be more unusual for one to operate without guards in the periphery, especially the independent planets and bandit kingdoms. Guards would more likely include aerospace than tanks; aerospace and mechs would be most common, ASFs on account of their pirate stopping and fitting in small craft bays, and mechs for ground use on account of their excellent firepower-wage ratio, which is important for merchants. I could definitely also see the employment of cargo hand/infantry boys, especially with flak AA guns, like a space Bofors or ZU-23-4 for defense on the ground and preventing sneaky thieves in the night
>>47484936
>When you get to company scale, well that's a business by itself
On that note, another guy here, but pretty much 90% of mercenary units I'd ever played have had a thriving sideline cargo business, sometimes making more than the merc side of the deal; there's a reason that I always recommend a buccaneer or mule or other cargo DropShip for merc use, and it ain't cause I think unions and leopards are 2rare
>>47484834
Apparently a Buccaneer makes a quarter of a million on the average run so they'd probably be able to absorb the costs.
OTOH if you're employing such heavy security it's kind of a red rag to a bull with pirates. A big, giant, RAID ME HERE sign.
>>47485073
>OTOH if you're employing such heavy security it's kind of a red rag to a bull with pirates. A big, giant, RAID ME HERE sign.
Wouldn't it be kinda opposite? You don't bring security, every two-bit bandit and his brother is chompin at the bit to kill you and steal your ship? Thing is, a dropper is about 10-100X more times as valuable as what it carries, cause FASAnomics, so it's not that pirates want the cargo, they want the ship, so guarding it as heavy as you can afford is just the logical thing to do
>>47484834
For what a mule makes per month, you could hire a good couple companies of mechs for security. The only actual limiting factor would be them taking up so much space aboard the ship that they'd cut your shipping profits too close
>>47479519
Military forces in the Sphere are pretty much balanced. To get the numbers to fuck your neighbor you need to strip your rear border which in turn means you get butt fucked.
Successful invasions require pulling a new source of troops out of your ass. Eg, Hanse gets the armies of the Lyrans to keep the Dracs busy, lets go kill some Cappies.
Every Lord should have their eyes open for new and innovative sources of free troops to give them that temporary advantage to screw their neighbor.
The Lyran plan was good. They just fucked up the execution and gave the Wolves a reason to bite back. Strip the coreward border of troops to fight the FWL AND Wolves, giving the Falcons a numbers advantage. Magic new source of Hell's Horses troops to double the Falcon's bonus. Let the butt fucking begin.
What is it about Germans and two front wars?
>>47482702
>Their military was much larger than really makes sense
No, it wasn't. Not when they had 15 years of FWL economic support and outright stealing from them. They started with the Jihad with the equivalent of like nine mech regiments. The MoC built 6-7 mech regiments in six years or less so it's not really impossible.
>>47485366
And they were getting that production from where, exactly? The IS and Periphery factory's output was already being expended on their own forces, with only a limited amount going to the WoB.
It doesn't matter how much they were skimming off the FWL if there's nowhere to spend it.
They also started the Jihad with the equivalent of almost 18 'Mech regiments (Mu average composition, 5/6 Level IIIs per Division, and were actually somewhere between 2 and 3 times their FM: U listed size so we'll call it 2.5X).
It's not really "impossible" because they could have just said "oh yeah lol there were a bunch of SLDF caches they raided, WoB has over 100 regiments" and we'd have just had to choke it down since that's what the authors decided but the WoB's size really doesn't jive between the pre-3067 foreshadowing for the intended FASA plotline and what CGL had to inveigle themselves out of thanks to WizKids' statements of massive destruction across the IS and the justification needed for the military sizes in the MW: DA era.
>>47485122
It would depend on where you were going to. I would say if you're going somewhere that you really need that level of dedicated security you're probably better off spending the money to get your Buccaneer or whatever reconfigured to haul some ASFs. Ground security shouldn't be that much of an issue if you're landing at spaceports, space security should mostly be OK as long as you're moving between inhabited systems.
If you need a company of ground forces to protect your DS you're either going to Anatallos or some other shithole, or you're hauling pure germanium and want to be as sure as possible you can protect it. Maybe both.
>>47485349
The really dumb thing with the Lyrans is that they literally already knew how buttmad the Wolves would get if someone else tried to use them as janissaries and then abandon them to die. That's what the Widowmakers tried to do during the Wolverine Annihilation.
"I know it was a completely retarded idea last time someone tried this, but trust me, this time, THIS TIME it will totally work!"
>>47485541
>And they were getting that production from where, exactly?
FWL factories and anywhere that would sell, as per the TROs and sourcebooks in the 3060s constantly wondering about where all the crap WoB is buying is going, for many years.
>The IS and Periphery factory's output was already being expended on
[citation needed]
>It doesn't matter how much they were skimming off the FWL if there's nowhere to spend it.
There's always somewhere to buy mechs from, even if you don't like it.
>They also started the Jihad with the equivalent of almost 18 'Mech regiments (Mu average composition, 5/6 Level IIIs per Division, and were actually somewhere between 2 and 3 times their FM: U listed size so we'll call it 2.5X).
Goddamn we've been through this so many times you'd think we'd stop having nonsense brought up.
From Field Manual: Updates-
1st Division, 6/6 Level IIIs, Beta: 158 'Mechs
2nd, 5/6, Gamma: 126
3rd, 5/6, Mu: 62
4th, 4/6, Iota: 75
5th, 4/6, Eta: 84
6th, 4/6, Theta: 80
7th, 4/6, Iota: 75
8th, 4/6, Kappa: 70
9th, 4/6 Gamma: 101
10th, 4/6 Gamma: 101
932 'Mechs, ~8.5 Regiments of *known* forces prior to the Jihad. At least half the ELH were combined-arms, and the ComStar force from Serpent was probably at least 1/3rd combined-arms as well. So yeah, larger than Serpent just on what was known to exist.
Most of their formations were under-strength. Of their 10 published divisions in 3067, ONE had six Level IIIs, two had five Level IIIs, and the other seven had four Level III's. Now those 15 missing Level III's make sense when you see the divisions starting to trickle in to action in 3068, 3069 and 3070.
Meanwhile all the divisions we saw for the first few years of the Jihad were all represented by no more than two to four Level IIIs, and a Mu average composition would be generous.
Basically you've fallen for the classic mistake of "if it says division it must be full strength." No, the WoBM was incredibly understrength when the whole thing was begun.
>>47485684
And here are all the new formations that showed up in the early Jihad years. As has been pointed out, all were understrength and fielded from one to three, or four if they were lucky, Level IIIs.
Jihad Hot Spots: 3070 -
Indications of new Divisions (worlds cited as follows):
12 Division (Oliver, early-3070)
13th Division (Kittery, late 3068)
15th Division (Atreus, late 3068)
17th Division (Sian, late 3070)
18th Division (Glengarry, late 3069)
21st Division (Liao, late 3069)
24th Division (Sian, late 3070)
25th Division (Solaris VII)
28th Division (Buckminster, early 3070)
29th Division (Pesht)
31st Division (New Avalon, 3067)
34th Division (Canopus area)
36th Division (New Avalon, early 3068)
37th Division (Tharkad)
A good example is the 31st, which dropped onto New Avalon outnumbered and got the piss beat out of it.
There's a reason WoB used force multipliers so much.
>>47485684
>FWL factories
Stated to be exporting to the rebuilding FedCom, Dracs, and Capellans mostly along with building their own forces up from 55 regiments (20-Year Update) to 66 (FM:U).
>IS and Periphery
In their own Field Manuals and the TR entries. Yes, a small portion of their output was going elsewhere for trade and mercs, but pretty much all of it was being used to build up their own domestic forces.
>Goddamn we've been through this so many times you'd think we'd stop having nonsense bought up
You do realise that they had assembled hidden Divisions that mimicked the composition of the known ones, and that they had somewhere between two and three times their known force in actual force once the Jihad kicked off, right? Plus the Shadow Divisions they were supposed to have had on the way to the Clan Homeworlds?
I didn't fall for shit, I adjusted for average composition (which hovers around Mu) and for average size. I know the WoBM was not fielding full Divisions and accounted for that too.
Even if you want to use your accounting, the WoB's actual forces were somewhere in the region of 17 (2X known forces)- 25 (3X known forces) regiments, which, shock horror, is a number not dissimilar to what I said despite abstracting the numbers a bit more for the sake of time and simplicity.
>>47485798
>You do realise that they had assembled hidden Divisions that mimicked the composition of the known ones
Since I'm the only one to apparently be bothering to cite anything, yeah. That's how I pointed out your assumption that they "were all Mu average composition of five Level III's" to be utter bullshit. Which it is utter bullshit.
Like I said, you fell for a classic mistake misreading their strength as being full units. They weren't. All but one division were understrength, usually in the area of 65%, when the show kicked off.
Not gonna bother with the rest of your post since it's literally you just guessing more without citations.
Friendly reminder that fluff is just background for you to create sessions and campaigns with more "flavor".
I swear I don't understand how can you have fun caring so much about such trivial that will not affect your table at the end of the day.
>>47485845
>you just guessing
Right, the Outreach Conference where the FedCom and Dracs took out loans to buy up most of the FWL's production for over a decade is not common knowledge.
TRs don't usually say production of a new design is going almost entirely to the originating faction, with few exceptions.
The Pheonix Programs aren't listed on p. 14 of FM: DC and supposed to restore the DCMS to full strength inside of 10 years after massive losses the Dracs can't make up for on their own.
Etc.
>but... but muh cites!
Dude I literally went off memory and simplified maths to get to a round figure that virtually matched your >muh impeccably cited post. I just don't feel the need to source every tiny statement I make in APA format, especially for shit that should be common knowledge.
>>47485911
>muh Outreach Conference
>muh Phoenix Programs
... and? It's been established for DECADES that WoB was still buying, or outright being given, production from the FWL. You don't even have an argument there. WoB virtually controlled Gibson Federated BattleMechs and infiltrated Irian BattleMechs Unlimited. Plus they were skimming like 15% of the FWLM's budget or some shit.
>I literally went off memory
It shows, you might want to read the fluff before making arguments.
>I don't feel the need to back my arguments up
It shows in how flat they fall. Look, if you're not trying to back anything you claim up, just fuck off and stop wasting my time. Your round figure was so off it makes Focht estimate of Terra's industry look educated. kek
>>47485895
I'm of two minds about it.
One is that fiction is not real life and as readers we're in a privileged position regarding knowledge of force strengths, locations, and personality types and motivations for characters. Real life can have all sorts of retardation going on like people missing obvious things and being blindsided as a result but when we can see nearly everything and certain characters are supposed to be very nearly as well-informed it gets hard to suspend disbelief about certain plot points.
FanPro/CGL is also very poor with their fact-checking and continuity work so they often try to sell their blatant writing errors as IC mistakes and that gets pretty tiresome too. We're paying them, they have listed fact-checkers and play-testers, and yet the amount of obvious errors that are slipping the net is incredible. Which in turn makes you wonder if they're doing anything at all or, perhaps more WTF-inducing, what *is* getting caught while the things they see as minor go through. Maybe stuff like having Takashi Kurita as the head of the Outworlds Alliance in 3139 is taking up all their time and attention, who knows?
>>47485798
>55 regiments (20-Year Update) to 66 (FM:U).
Well that backs his argument up given that in FM:FWL it's stated the FWLM planned to grow by two regiments a year but instead only got one every other year. So a solid chunk of that funding or production was going elsewhere.
>>47485895
I'm just bored tbqh
>>47486054
I would take those growth claims with very large grains of salt given similar hyperbole about expansion is made by everyone in their TRs.
The Dracs for example were supposed to return to their pre-Clan strength in about 3061 but even if you knock their Bulldog, GB, and FFCW losses off they never even got close to that by 3067.
Regardless, the salient point is that the WoB were always going to be as large as the plot demanded and were always gong to have that strength hand-waved away somehow, be it hijacked production or SLDF-era caches they fortuitously had knowledge of.
The pre-'67 stuff was foreshadowing a different Jihad because FASA was planning a much less destructive one. So the hints were of much smaller and less-capable forces for the WoB because they weren't going to launch an all-encompassing shitstorm of destruction.
Then Weisman decided the Jihad was going to be an all-encompassing shitstorm of destruction and FanPro?CGL had to fill in the blanks, which necessarily included the WoB being more powerful than the hints that had been laid out in the past.
Most of which Herb has actually said before.
>>47486149
>TRs.
FMs, I mean.
>>47486149
>So the hints were of much smaller and less-capable forces for the WoB because they weren't going to launch an all-encompassing shitstorm of destruction.
Can you link to something about these hints. I'd like to know more.
>>47486149
>much smaller and less-capable forces for the WoB because they weren't going to launch an all-encompassing shitstorm of destruction
Thank goodness they changed that. The WoBM was comparatively tiny as it was, and its capability came mostly from ROM, nukes and warships.
I don't see how they could have believability given us a massive reform like the Republic of the Sphere and disarmed Great Houses with anything lesser.
>>47486327
Mostly stuff in TR 3067 (one of the quad 'Mechs they're building mentions that less have been seen than what intel agencies believe were built), FM: C* IIRC has a little and theres the intro section to Brush Wars where fake Thomas Marik talks about Jardine and what he's caught the WoB skimming.
I can't find the Battlechat where Herb talks a little about the planned FASA Jihad but the basics were that it'd be much shorter and the Bears would be more heavily involved.
Herb commenting on the WoB's forces and believability here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=11852.5;wap2
>A few problems popped up in the planning committe, not the least of which was "where did WoB get all that force?".
>>47486359
Yeah. To be honest I don't have a problem with the WoB's size per se, it just doesn't match with what was foreshadowed and was forced by WizKids' timeline, which makes the backfill a bit clumsy.
They did the best they could, but a lot of individual things strain my suspension of disbelief about the Jihad, never mind the effect as a whole.
It is what it is though.
>>47486436
Actually I did find the Battlechat but didn't edit my post because derp.
Relevent:
<DarkISI>: How much of where FASA wanted to go with the Jihad has been done the way they wanted it to go?
<Habeas2>: DarkISI - Aside from the final hero and the length of time taken, most of it went as FASA planned. The Manei Domini, the Five Worlds, and Stone were all add-ins, but many of those would likely have appeared in some form or another... The original FASA plan for the Jihad was still a war that begins as a temper tantrum when the allied leaders scrap the Second Star League for no good reason....
... Victor and company would run to Tukayyid to regroup, at which point the false Thomas Marik would "come clean", reveal his identity, and join their side... Victor would again rally the various factions to put down the Word, a process that would take two years, and be nearly lost before suddenly the slumbering Ghost Bears, with their powerful WarShip fleet and such, would join the war berserker style, believing that the WoB is in league with the long-lost Wolverines...The Bears would essentially lead the charge on all fronts... A few problems popped up in the planning committe, not the least of which was "where did WoB get all that force?". Second was "I don't care HOW fanatical they are; nobody fights a war like that unless they think they can win it!"
>>47486436
> (one of the quad 'Mechs they're building mentions that less have been seen than what intel agencies believe were built),
I'm surprised anyone read that as anything but ROM sandbagging
>>47486604
>Ghost Bears singlehandedly save the day.
Yeah we were better off with what we got.
>>47486436
>>A few problems popped up in the planning committe, not the least of which was "where did WoB get all that force?".
The main problem with that question is that it's a better question "why doesn't everyone have larger forces" when they have hundreds of billions of people and hundreds of planets.
>>47486714
BT did make more sense technically speaking when populations were smaller and planets were depicted as being more reliant on outside sources for clean water, atmospheric equipment, etc.
>>47486667
This. So much this.
>>47486604
>"I don't care HOW fanatical they are; nobody fights a war like that unless they think they can win it!"
I kind of like how that one was fixed.
>>47486604
One problem I have with the dissolution of the Star League causing WoB's war is that they felt utterly disconnected to it until the 11th hour.
Like if they'd been included in its formation or the annihilation of the Jaguars, it would make sense. For example, I could see a WoB token force sent with Task Force Serpent being ultra-radical with their proposals on how to win (urging orbital bombardment, even nukes, no prisoners, etc) and getting censured by Morgan and then Ariana.
In my opinion it is worth pointing out that besides the Capellan contingent it was ComGuard officers that canonically were the most vocal about softening up the Jaguar defenses with warship fire.
>>47486960
Yeah. They should have made it personal, with the majority of the SL saying they wouldn't be allowed in due to their Outreach and/or Chaos March fuckery and then going ballistic over that.
At least then the SLDF framework is in place for the Coalition too.
>>47486767
>BT made more sense when it didn't make sense at all
Maybe if the distribution of the ComGuard post-schism had been less utterly one-sided the WoB could have started with a bigger force and the issue wouldn't have arisen.
Given how the ComGuard at Tukayyid are depicted as pretty Blakist, with some personally extolling the Primus herself as they fight and die, and how Focht's hand picked second in command went over to WoB, I always found the way they kept 95% of the ComGuard with FochtStar a little off-putting.
But then his coup shouldn't have been so seamless to begin with, what with ROM and the Primus' bodyguard unit being present at Hilton's Head.
It doesn't help that we had to read about the coup in Stackpole's smug manner of writing.
>>47487250
>a planet of 5 billion people can only scrape together a regiment of defenders
>this is more believable
Ok
>>47487286
>people not fucking is more believable than people fucking
OK
>>47487286
OTOH is all you do is add a couple more zeroes to the end of everything, how much does it really change as long as you apply it consistently to all factions?
Well, aside from the Clan Invasion, I guess. But that one already shouldn't have worked due to other retcons.
>>47487322
>eight hundred quadrillion people on marginally habitable worlds with one spaceport and 500 defenders each
Ok
You've yet to actually defend any of the points you're meming for with passive-aggressiveness
>>47487325
If it doesn't change anything why add them? At the very least it makes people wonder why such apparently vast populations can't support more than your local Territorial forces' weight in troops.
>>47487250
What didn't make sense exactly?
Now I missed the Jihad and got into the game during what is called ClickyTech now. My first mechs were a Tundra Wolf and Spider.
So what were some good mechs in the Jihad? Specifically Word of Blake and ComStar.
>>47488024
For the Word, their front line best was their Angel series (quite a few Omnimechs I believe) and a slew of Starleague era designs, many of which were also found among the ComGuards.
They also captured a number of factories across the sphere, giving them access to Successor state designs, like the Zeus.
>>47488024
The Celestial series were cutting edge omni mechs that were used primarily by the Manei Dominei. Otherwise, they were known for mechs like the viking, ghurka, blue flame, grand crusader, etc. Also, phoenix upgrades of the unseen.
