>Previous Thread
>>46777303
>Pastebin
http://pastebin.com/NjH6gQqi
>20th anniversary editions
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/lfa6qw2ocfd2y/Roleplaying#mt9aacn2r93i2
>Mage Sight Spoilers
http://theonyxpath.com/i-can-see-for-miles-and-miles-mage-the-awakening/
>Question
Whats your favorite part of your favorite line?
chronicles of fagness
My favorite part of Hunter is the nature of being so overwhelmed, outnumbered and outgunned but still determined.
Chronicles of At Least One or More Weeks Before Mage 2e
>>46797140
>Whats your favorite part of your favorite line?
>Werewolf
The animism, I think.
>Demon
The espionage
>Mage
MAGIC
Did OP fix the terrible art in the final Exalted PDF?
>>46797234
>Mage
Supremacy!
>joking
>>46797256
For the most part, yeah, eg.
>>46797167
>>46795505
>>46797256
They changed it. Fixed is relative to taste, but it is at least professional quality now.
>>46797256
Certainly seems so
>>46797167
>>46797254
>>46795721
>>46795613
>>46795505
>>46795448
>>46797140
>favorite part of favorite line
Getting to fuck around with history as your sandbox in Mummy. Roleplaying espionage in Demon, mostly because it's one of like four spy RPGs in existence. Making shameless furbait characters in Changeling.
>>46797140
>Whats your favorite part of your favorite line?
I like how, in Geist, I can kill characters whenever I want without killing them off.
>>46797300
This, this is some kind of parody account, right? Who starts an e-mail with "mos def"?
>>46797455
I emailed their official page and got a very pleasant, corporate-clean reply from Tobias and whatever that is from Martin.
>>46797455
No. Sometimes reality is stranger than fiction.
Besides, Drac needs to reinforce his "edgy" cred.
>>46797455
if you looked into the sony leaks or hillary clinton's emails you'd know that even rich and powerful people sometimes compose emails like teenage girls
>>46797496
>Tobias and Martin
They're obviously using the old Good LARPer / Bad LARPer ruse. Don't be fooled.
So is The Pack out today or what?
I'm new to this whole "liking Werewolf" thing and the wait is killing me. I need those new Huntinf Grounds, damn it.
>>46797496
Give us the full context, atamajakki. What did you email asking them? Screenshot it.
>>46797713
Exalted was released today. Barring unforseen delays, Mage will probably be next, with The Pack shortly thereafter
>>46797774
Brace for SJW tomfoolery.
>>46797713
>liking werewolf
Dohohoho! You poor fool! You have only begun to sup from the wellspring of disappointment! For every good 1e WtF supplement there were at least two filler / garbage ones. It's always a crapshoot. And, usually, the ones focusing on more abstract concepts like Packs and Territory are the worst.
>>46797824
I'm honestly just mining The Pack to steal troupe play rules for Pyramid play (you play as Arisen and cultists) in Mummy and to read the new cities, because settings are my favorite part of 2e. I'm also a little curious about Lodge mechanics and to see id playable spirits make it into the book or not.
Am I missing something or are there no drawbacks to being in Crinos form in W20, other than being a pissed off 9-foot tall monster? It certainly seems better overall than Forsaken's version.
>>46797819
Ugh
>Waaahh! I'm scared White Wolf might deviate from SJW orthodoxy and challenge my views as much as they do other people's, will you please tell me I get to have my own special hugbox just for me and people who whinge in public places about their stupid identity politics bullshit?
I wish they'd have just told you the truth. That as long as they make money from bilking idiots like you by parroting stupid buzzwords and sprinkling in token characters to placate you they will because the normies only chaff slightly while you only excel at outrage so choosing which side to cater to is a no-brainer.
>>46797819
>>46797819
>LGBTQA
There is no greater evidence to the pathetic narcissism and gaucheness of the social justice movement then the ever increasing length of this acronym.
I love that I've barely been posting lately and still people bring me up all the damned time to say I'm a shitposter or that my homebrew is shitty. Or, most recently, >>46796359 that my X-splat tastes are terrible. I'm curious what shitty X-splat I love and defend.
>>46791598
>>46792068
I was actually going back to Infinite recently.
Just read this and maybe watch some of the Youtube videos http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/Songbird
Though I doubt you're going for "20 foot tall thousand pound biomechanical monstrosity" when it's not in Demon Form.
>>46797819
>Actually caring to email them
I had been hoping to like oWoD, but honestly, I do think Dracula is 'edgy', even if I think your bitching is also annoying. I don't necessarily think he's going to run everything into the ground or anything, but I do think that a lot of the more "you mean well but please stop" elements of oWoD are going to be strong. Hopefully he doesn't bring back the edgy 90s attitude and drive White Wolf into the ground.
>>46797877
The world is your hugbox and you don't like that other people get catered to. We get it.
>>46797940
Officially it's now LGBTQIA+
Intersex is a real thing
>>46797955
It's like they have no awareness whatsoever of how quickly their movement has turned into self-parody.
>>46797877
>>46797940
Of course, the ultimate irony is that we are all here on 4chan, where the only reason anyone's mad about identity politics is because it clashes with their own precious identity politics.
Anyways, time to mark another space on the shit bingo.
>>46797819
>Politically correct
>testing barriers
WTF?
Is Tobias serious or just trolling the poor, deluded SJW fool?
>>46797978
>>46797953
I'm just glad they're not involved in CofD. There's not a lot of good stuff in oWoD to ruin anyway (Wraith is never coming out, and we're not seeing Demon: the Fallen for ages), so who really cares.
>>46797953
>what shitty x-splat I love and defend
Maiden's Blood Sisterhood, like every other thread I come in here looking for stuff about hunter and all I find is you championing this forgettable compact. I think you've devoted more wordcount to defending it than there is material about it. Why anyone would debate a person who seriously created a 'magical girls' conspiracy is beyond me, but it just irks me that the only time people talk about my favorite gameline it's stupid shit like this and I lay the blame at your feet.
>>46797991
Or, we just don't want *any* blatant and gratuitous political diatribes and digs in the books taking-up valuable word count and needlessly insulting a sizable portion of the fanbase, regardless of whether he politics is left wing or otherwise.
If the authors want to virtue signal or lecture, leave it to the blog and forums.
>>46798004
Holy shit. Now I finally understand Hunter the Reckoning!
>>46798051
Hunter is your favorite game? What's your favorite Compact, then?
I actually really like the idea behind Division Six, because it's like a shittier Delta Green that thinks they're saving the world. Habibti Ma is also super underrated.
>>46798051
People talk about Hunter all the damned time, and I only bring up the Maiden's Blood Sisterhood when people shit on it or when people ask "What's your favourite Org".
Grow up. Just last thread, people were asking for Hunter monster advice.
>>46797819
>Brace for SJW tomfoolery.
You should have just left well enough alone. The thread was young.
>>46798004
Wanna know sad? They say LGBTQA++QBBQWTFROFL to be "inclusive". And call all non-whites "pocks".
True story; A black guy asked me what POC stood for, and I bit my tongue, took a deep breath, and told him that it stood forpicker of cotton. He walked away fucking livid.
Either someone died or lost their job that day.
>>46798004
Is the Electro-Gender Spectrum controlled by Forces, Life or Matter?
Will Dave include a sidebar on the issue?
>>46798051
You know what, you're right, let's talk about Hunter, because the last thing I want is another fucking discussion about the ills of politics in a thread about monster people.
Let's talk about The Code. If you were in charge of Hunter 2e, would you keep it, now that Morality has become Integrity? How would you implement it?
>>46798004
>>46798090
My favorite posted originally posted by another Anon.
>>46798114
>Is the Electro-Gender Spectrum controlled by Forces, Life or Matter?
Some, all or none of the above
>>46798099
I can't decide on just one favorite, because I like a lot of them for the kinds of characters they've let me play. But, if I have to speak solely based on fluff I'd say Network Zero. They find the balance between believable and yet answer that immortal question of 'why risk any of this shit?' They have a purpose but aren't guided by shadowy players that are almost certainly the bad guys. They're the everyday people, but not in the hamfisted tone-deaf way the Union or (ugh) the Night Watch is.
>>46798086
>If the authors want to virtue signal
>virtue signal
And there we go, the right's version of terms like "mansplaning". Thank you for proving my point. Again, the irony is that folks on the internet will write lofty posts about the evils of identity politics while diving right into them themselves.
>>46797824
I liked Territories, though! It had some good suggestions on building a believable setting. Also is War Against the Pure actually good for seeing how werewolves conduct themselves in war.
>>46798118
It's probably because I've been reading a lot of Delta Green and Night's Black Agents, but I really want HtV 2e to emphasize how fucking shitty it is to uphold the Vigil. I would love for them to have Touchstones, so that you can think about how you're doing this to keep Little Timmy safe when the monster rips off your buddy's arm or how your relationship with your wife falters because you're out late doing "work stuff" and can't look her in the eyes anymore.
The Code should stress that if you want to stay functional as a Hunter, you do so by cutting out your kindndess and connections to the rest of the world. Nice, normal people do not spend their nights torturing witches for information on how to find and kill a demon.
>>46798086
Or they can do whatever they want, and if you don't agree with it you can not buy their books.
>>46798118
Vampire's Banes are perfect for it. Integrity is looser, but you can still work in The Code, especially if Hunter includes a more comprehensive list of things that are Integrity Breaking Points without it being every possible Breaking Point. You take a Tell and harden yourself and now you don't suffer a specific Breaking Point.
>>46798150
Demifiend always makes me laugh.
The only change I'd make to this is having the Thor's Hammer also say Nazi underneath it.
>>46798118
I'd make it like Banes in Vampire. You get a Persistent Condition that's tied to a certain supernatural where you're immune to having a breaking point from it, but it also somehow affects you. Like, say, one related to werewolves gives you bonuses against Lunacy but also makes you prone to going into unexplained fits of destructive rage. Or one with vampires makes you nervous and paranoid at the sight of blood or make it harder to stay awake during the day. The fluff explanation is that these are mixture of psychological trauma and maybe some sort of byproduct of being too close to the supernatural, getting some of that weird on you.
>>46798257
>Thor's Hammer
>Nazi
What? Did I miss something?
>>46798240
>Or they can do whatever they want, and if you don't agree with it you can not buy their books.
Well, congratulations on unintentionally advocating piracy.
I don't believe that was intended by OP or WW.
>>46798308
There's a distinct minority of Germanic/Nordic pagans who brand themselves as "proud traditionalists who love their race and think that Hitler guy had the right idea." You also see some neo-Nazis rocking the Thor's hammer as a kind of secret symbol.
Pagan politics get real weird real quick.
>>46798236
Someone's middle-class WASPness is showing. These sorts of social constraints don't really effect people on the highest and lowest boundaries of society. So, apropos to the discussion, an 1%er in the Ashwood Abbey who goes out on a hunt with his buddies from Yale isn't really at risk of losing his connection to his life, the hunt has become another facet of it, meshing seamlessly with all other diversions. No one wonders why a rich guy is carrying a huge sack with a body in it (go watch American Psycho). Then, on the flipside, the very poor already have so many strains on their lives that usually adding something like the hunt doesn't make things any worse than drug addiction or exposure to crime wouldn't already.
>>46798308
>>46798410
Native Austrian here: The Nazis were also pretty big on Nordic mythology and the Nibelungen saga and stuff. A lot of Nordic symbolism tends to be looked at with suspicion around here because of that association and because modern neo-Nazi groups continue to use it.
>>46798224
Did you read the post?
The politics should just be left of the books entirely. It's included for little more than author vanity and yes, virtue signalling. Your posts and others prove the point whether you see it or not.
I personally could care less either way about things like pronoun usage or whether NPCs are sufficiently representative of minority groups. The authors can go wild. However, the patronizing and sometimes offensive sidebars and textual digs are rude, unnecessary, and condescending, particularly when we are always reminded of limited wordcount and space.
If the authors so desire, they have ample opportunity and unlimited space to say whatever they want on both official and unofficial WW blogs and forums. They can even engage in discussion, rather than lecture the captive audience of the books.
>>46798410
Meh, the KKK has been rocking the cross with the blood drop on it for decades now. Or just the history of the swastika itself. Hijacking powerful or meaningful symbols for a terrible purpose is nothing new, in fact I think Jung said it's the second most important thing man learned to control after fire.
>>46798413
The average person is not accustomed to a life of violence and killing; the military pours countless hours and thousands of dollars into trying to get around that and has still become a PTSD factory. There have been recent studies showing that kids in neighborhoods with lots of violent crime - even those that don't experience it themselves - come away with massive psychological scars.
Beyond that, the Chronicles of Darkness setting is one where people try and keep their heads down. The average person wants to make it to tomorrow, wants to stay safe from the things in the dark. Hunters are the rare few freaks who break from that paradigm and are obsessive/stupid enough to run at the monsters head-on with a video camera and a Wal-Mart rifle.
People who take up the Vigil are not normal, and are definitely not healthy. It would be easier to pretend things aren't out there in the night.
That's the kinda shit I wanna see in 2e.
>>46798332
>And if you don't agree with it you can not read their books*
Happy?
>>46798493
Or it's included because they want to include it. Why should something like that be left out? Because it makes you uncomfortable? Maybe if you find them offensive and rude, you should think about why you feel that way. It's their books. You're not a captive audience, you're a consumer of goods. If you don't like the goods, don't consume them. Do you also go through the Christian section of Barnes and Noble and complain that they're lecturing?
>>46798413
Using American Psycho as an example doesn't make you come off as knowing what you're talking about.
>>46798549
>Using American Psycho as an example doesn't make you come off as knowing what you're talking about.
Alright, how about Robert Durst?
>>46798626
My argument is that Hunters are not mentally healthy people. If you're rich and jaded enough to join the Abbey, it's because you're dead enough inside to think "man, going out and killing things that look like people is the only way I can feel things anymore!"
Sure, your wealthy asshole probably isn't sobbing in the shower about how he's a killer now, but he probably doesn't really grasp empathy anymore.
>>46798549
>Or it's included because they want to include it. Why should something like that be left out? Because it makes you uncomfortable? Maybe if you find them offensive and rude, you should think about why you feel that way. It's their books. You're not a captive audience, you're a consumer of goods. If you don't like the goods, don't consume them. Do you also go through the Christian section of Barnes and Noble and complain that they're lecturing?
How about this. I buy a book that promises one thing, and largely delivers that one thing, but then for no reason and apropos of nothing gives me something I don't want in the middle of it. Now, I still want what I was promised, I just don't want the unnecessary addition. You're saying my only recourse is to just abandon the entire thing rather than bring up a simple objection?
>>46798680
Empathy is a biological illusion.
>>46798680
So then, would you say this fundamental difference makes Hunters eligible to be considered a major template?I want my 10 fucking Merit dots at chargen.
>>46798753
Major template implies a supernatural difference, which probably hits when you get a special Endowment like the infernal bloodline of the Lucifuge or the immunity to magical toxins of the Ascending Ones. It gets weird when you consider that VALKYRIE agents are just normal guys with special guns.
I'd argue that Hunters are a minor template for now.
>>46798150
>monsoon
THE MEMES
>>46798825
Boo hiss!
So should we just skip the foreplay and make Hunter into a game with Conspiracy agents as the major template characters and compact members as minor? I think you can stretch the fluff of most conspiracies to cover the 'no longer fully human' angle and that way you sort of bring Hunter in line with the rest of the games.
>>46798825
I believe it was Dave who mentioned that TFV tries to recruit "gifted" people into the organization.
While TFV membership doesn't confer anything supernatural, many of its members possess various inherent, although largely minor, supernatural merits.
>>46799007
Isn't that what VASCU does?
>>46798929
That's the rub with Hunter; while every other line is about characters who share an origin, Hunters span everything from everyday folks to guys who can call upon Catholic miracles at a whim. "Hunter" isn't really a template because Hunter as a term covers too much ground.
I would argue that most Hunters do count as Sleepwalkers, however.
>>46799122
>That's the rub with Hunter; while every other line is about characters who share an origin
only prometheans, changelings, and mummies share origins
and changeling origins are varied
>I would argue that most Hunters do count as Sleepwalkers, however.
they don't
and if they did they'd be doubly screwed, by mages
>>46798691
It promises exactly what you're getting. If you're still buying WoD books at this point, you clearly know that they an SJW company. If you don't like it, don't read the fucking books.
>>46799091
VASCU does. It also makes you gifted by enhancing latent psychic talents.
>>46799163
Changelings are all people who were kidnapped by the True Fae. Vampires are all people who were Embraced.
>>46799203
>Changelings are all people who were kidnapped by the True Fae.
which could have been anything
you might as well say "hunters are people who became hunters"
>Vampires are all people who were Embraced.
that's not even a guarantee w strix and shit
>>46799163
Vampires have all been Embraced. Werewolves have all undergone a First Change. Mages have all Awakened. So on and so forth. There's a greater shared template there.
Hunters are a massively broader category.
>>46799203
Those are some pretty gigantic categories man.
Mages are people who have Awakened, Werewolves are people who always were half-spirit, Hunters are men and women who fight against the monsters, and so forth.
Hunters are on the whole, no less united in their background than most other splats.
Also yes, while many Hunters may be immune to Quiescence, it's a matter of them actually being a minor supernatural in their own right which does that.
>>46799230
>>46799254
"Deciding to fight monsters" isn't exactly a magical origin of power, Anons.
>>46799254
The Kindred burn in the sun and fuel their Disciplines with Vitae. All Forsaken can change shape and have a weakness to silver. Changelings have a magical Mask that hides their true face and use Glamour to power their Contracts.
Hunters are just people who fight monsters. Nothing mechanically different from a regular mortal except for risking Willpower and getting screwy with Morality except the big ones get Endowments.
>>46799271
>"Deciding to fight monsters" isn't exactly a magical origin of power, Anons.
You decided because you had an encounter with a supernatural.
>>46799177
Ironically, OP does not consider itself a "SJW Company," and probably wouldn't like the term.
And while many authors and developers are indeed very liberal, many don't inject politics so openly into their work or very often. It's a case by case basis. The books also certainly aren't marketed as social and political treatises.
When ordering a book, we have no idea whether to expect just a unconventional pronoun or two and a variety of nontraditional NPC's, or numerous sidebars and text references to the evils and horrors of anyone to the right of Marx and Lenin (cough*Mage20*cough).
Of course, people can always just pirate the books, and then won't have a basis to complain.
>>46799122
>I would argue that most Hunters do count as Sleepwalkers, however.
They don't, unless they specifically possess some sort of supernatural ability(any supernatural merit, Castigation and a few of the other Endowments, ones that are a part of the Hunter instead of a piece of equipment/a body-mod they have)
>>46799230
>>46799233
>>46799254
>>46799301
>>46799289
Changelings are people who were kidnapped by True Fae and escaped of their own volition somehow, otherwise they're Fae-Touched.
Vampires are people who were Embraced, straight-up. Even if a Strix turns you into a Vampire, that's still a form of Embrace.
Werewolves have all undergone a First Change, which is what makes them half-spirit.
Mages have all visited their Path's Supernal Realm and returned with some piece of enlightenment.
Hunters are literally just anybody who dedicates themselves to killing monsters.
The difference being, the splats that actually are templates are permanently changed by an encounter with the supernatural, while Hunters are recruited into the Vigil or begin to pursue it themselves after witnessing something spooky, but they're still just mortals.
>>46799343
okay branford
>>46799345
>Hunters are literally just anybody who dedicates themselves to killing monsters.
Yes, and they dedicate themselves because of an encounter they had that changed their entire view of the world. Just like Changelings.
>>46799343
>Of course, people can always just pirate the books, and then won't have a basis to complain.
most people here do that anyways and it's never stopped them
which is weird considering how many sjws are in this thread
>>46799301
I feel like you're missing the point I'm trying to make here.
>>46799343
>Ironically, OP does not consider itself a "SJW Company," and probably wouldn't like the term.
OPP considers itself a progressive company, and at least one of the developers has said he's fine being called an SJW.
White Wolf was "SJW" before it was even a thing. They have always been proud of that fact. If you continue to read their books without liking that, that's on you. It's not on them to change. They like what they're doing. Their fans like what they're doing.
They are under no obligation to change what they're doing just because you don't like it.
>>46799405
A lot of us either do buy the books or would like to if we weren't poor.
>>46799381
Except Changelings are permanently, forever changed as a result of their Durance. A Hunter could totally retire back to civilian life, at any point, if they wanted; sure, they know the world isn't what they thought, but they are by no means required to be Hunters forever.
A Changeling, Werewolf, Vampire, Mage, Mummy, Sin-Eater, Demon, etc, however, is near-permanently going to be a member of the splat once they become one, until their death. The exception being Prometheans, because their entire motivation is to STOP being Prometheans.
>>46799420
>their fans like what they're doing
That's a flawed statement. If someone is a fan of the CofD books but not the politics then they're not happy with what they're doing. What you mean to say is that SJWs are happy being pandered to.
>>46799381
>Just like Changelings
No. Changelings have been significantly physically altered by their Durance in Arcadia.
Hunters experienced the supernatural, just like most everyone else in the CofD. They decided to fight it. Congratulations, you're still human.
Of course, *some* people truly change after encountering the supernatural
(e.g., some wolf-blooded) or otherwise have other inherent supernatural merits or abilities.
Accordingly, some Hunters may be supernatural or a Sleepwalker, but nothing about being a Hunter itself makes it intrinsically so.
>>46799523
What if I'm an SJW and also a fan of the books?
Being pandered to is a nice bonus, sure, but I'm mostly here because I lile urban fantasy/horror.
>>46799523
Clearly enough of their fans like it that they keep doing it. If you don't like it, why should they care?
The authors also like it, which is why they keep doing it.
You're mad because you're not being pandered to for once.
>>46799523
my favorite part of the books is how a sidebar in a supplement makes 4chan cry endlessly
>>46799523
>What you mean to say is that SJWs are happy being pandered to.
And of course they should be pandering to you instead.
Which books would be best for a game themed around demigods a la Percy Jackson?
>>46799730
You're in luck, because at least one of the Mage characters is a genderless hermaphrodite mindghost named Baphomet.
I expect to see bitching.
>>46799868
Scion.
Or Exalted.
>>46799868
Scion 2e, when it comes out in a couple years, probably.
Mage 2e due out within the week might tide you over, sort of, but you'd have to do a lot of surgery on it.
>>46799879
Well of course there's going to be bitching, but if there's anywhere that kind of shit makes sense, it's in Mage.
>>46799879
Promethean 2e is gonna be full of pronoun fuckery. I'm excited.
>>46799868
If you feel you have to do it in WoD, mirrors had rules for heroes. Start there, perhaps.
>>46799868
If you gotta use WoD, Mirrors using Heroic Rules and Conviction as a power stat. Scion 2e should be out...soonish though, and that system's looking real good.
>>46799523
I'm more than happy to be pandered to. I expect companies who want me to buy their products, to pander to me. It is part of making a good product.
Let me repeat that so you can focus in on it when you think about your green text.
A good company panders to their audience, it is part of what makes a good product.
>>46799879
>>46799932
>>46800087
oh man i cannot wait for all the babies in this thread to cry about it
>>46800130
I really is an exciting part of new OP products. Wait for the screenshots of random sidebars, and someone to cry about xer, or talk of gender fluidness. It is like someone stabbed them in the eye.
>>46800087
Pandering holds a connotation that was you desire is distasteful, immoral or unwholesome.
So putting gratuitious panty shots and rapy scenes in an otherwise entirely innocent game which has no basis for those things is pandering.
Putting socially aware stuff in a series which has for the life of it been known to consider more "out there" stuff such as sexual dysphoria, identity topics, transexualism and other topics isn't really pandering.
Unless you came into the game entirely unaware of that's a major part of what it's been about for a while.
Either way, most of the time people in these threads seem to be complaining not about the content, but the occasionally smug manner in which some writers seem to feel they should present it in. As if we're entirely unaware of these things, and need to be educated.
>>46800087
You don't see the obvious contradictions in what you're saying? The disconnect at play here is just amazing.
>>46800221
Why don't you mansplain it to me.
>>46800205
I don't think that's what pandering means. It means they're putting something in solely to make a certain group happy without having any sincere conviction toward the beliefs being espoused. It speaks to the cravenness and cynicism of the company and the narcissism and gullibility of the one's being pandered to.
>>46800254
No thanks, I'm not going to enact the effort.
>>46799879
>>46800130
I don't believe there'll be much of an uproar.
Dave is admittedly VERY liberal, but not at all preachy. He's even discussed this issue on a few occasions. While he includes matters that some readers might find controversial, he doesn't include things like sidebars reminding readers of the 'very important' material or suggest they're troglodytes if they dare to disagree.
For instance, while he was diplomatic and careful not to openly criticize the author of the infamous Moral Remains sidebar (DavidH), he explicitly stated he would never include something of that nature in one of his books.
It's not just the content of books, but also the means, style and tone of its integration.
>>46799932
I expect to see a transman Osirian. If I don't see one, I'll be disappointed. It's such a missed opportunity to have SOME kind of trans Osirian.
(For reference, Osiris didn't have a dick, so he got it replaced with [jade or obsidian] to impregnate Isis with Horus. While he was dead.)
>>46799921
Really you'd be hard pressed to find a place where it doesn't fit. Hell, thematically it works best in Vampire, since Vampire has always been about the sexual progressive avant garde that makes the Victorians afraid of being seduced and converted. Foreigners, gays. Transvamps fit right in there.
Hell, one of the earliest modern vampire stories was literally subtitled "the Lesbian Vampire".
>>46800087
And how is that not what they're doing?
>>46800205
>It's not really pandering if I agree with it.
Got it.
>>46800353
branford, they're gonna whine about Baphomet being sjw cuck pandering, and it's gonna be hilarious
the people on this website are too sensitive
>>46800320
That might happen as a result of it, but pandering is defined as gratifying or indulging another's lower or baser instincts.
>>46800254
You want them to change things for you, because you don't want them to "pander" to the people they're pandering to. You'd rather they pandered to you.
>>46800353
People bitched about gay vampires showerfucking, and the Touchstone example being gay.
>>46800389
Tokenism might be a better term to use.
>>46800370
More
>It's pandering if I don't agree with it
People who are on the fence or ambivalent probably wouldn't see it as pandering.
>>46800375
I don't believe your right (although there certainly may be an odd malcontent or troll).
At least with his current work and expressed statements, Dave's been veru clear about his own politics, but equally explicit that he only wants to focus on the setting and rules, and not preach or argue about such politics.
>>46800414
Indeed.
Though if it gets people off your backs and givesn them what they want without compromising anything important, tokensim isn't entirely a bad thing.
>>46800397
Uhm... I never said they shouldn't pander.I think you're confusing me with another anon. I very clearly want them to pander, because they pander to me.
>>46800397
No they didn't. I never saw any complaints about the gay content in vampire. All I've ever seen has been push back to pronoun shenanigans and hamfisted moralizing about transgenderism.
>>46800397
I have never once heard a single person complaining about gay Vampires.
Ever.
You're barking up the wrong tree.
>>46800414
>>46800320
>>46800444
Then it isn't pandering at all. The people involved clearly feel that way for real, and many of the people involved are actually part of the groups being "pandered" to. They're doing what they want, and that upsets people who want them to do something different. Those people have had twenty years to know about the liberal progressive views of the company. This shouldn't come as a surprise.
>>46800429
Dave's also said that transgender people exist, and you shouldn't ignore that fact. It was one of the pieces of advice he gave on city building.
>>46800429
you keep saying that like the people here are reacting only to preaching or arguing about politics
somebody already whined about baphomet in this thread, buddy theyre gonna be quoting stuff about gender identity in the astral and theyre gonna be shaking with rage
>>46800444
I'd find it insulting and patronizing for them to just put those in to appeal to me rather than because it's relevant to the game.
>>46800496
>The people involved clearly feel that way for real
Literally no way of knowing this. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
>>46800500
What is relevant to the game is arguable.
>>46800418
I'm admittedly on the fence, at least to the extent I only want more supernatural stuff in my books, instead of wordcount used for political diatribes.
You want funky pronouns, transgender NPC's, and gay pregnant werewolves. Great, It doesn't bother me in the least.
Would I rather have some crossover notes or an optional rule sidebar, rather than a few paragraphs about the wonders of pronouns and the evil people who don't use them.? Absolutely.
I'm just excited to make a transwoman Promethean and then never play her like any of my other characters.haven't gamed in three years, kill me
>>46800496
He said "Try not to dismiss the idea of transgendered characters out of hand, even if you never tell the players - there's two in my current game".
Which is an infitely better way of going about it than saying "you must have transexual people in your game".
>>46800554
why don't you save us the trouble and kill yourself?
>>46797877
>The irony of anti-SJW people whining about the world not conforming to their hugbox worldview when pro-SJW do anything.
You're like in some world of triple-reverse irony there.
>>46800556
>Try not to dismiss the idea of transgendered characters out of hand, even if you never tell the players - there's two in my current game".
Damn, that Dave guy sure is a tyrannical, unyielding ideologue.
I cannot imagine how they ever let him near a WW book.
>>46800496
I think this alleged 'history' of subversive progressive content is vastly overstated and also overlooks alot of the company's past sins in terms of gender and ethnic portrayals. Were they pandering then too? And if so, to who?
>>46800527
So we should just assume they're lying about everything, even things they said before they were part of Onyx Path, and even ignoring the part where they're part of the groups in question? If you think the only reason people are ever progressive or inclusive is because they want to "pander" to an incredibly small minority of people...
>>46800549
Some of us actually WANT to know how Demons handle pregnancy when they change sex.
>>46800556
He's said a bit more than that, too. Not much more, but this thread flips out about shit about as much as /pol/.
>>46800494
>complaining about gay Vampires
Vampire is almost synonymous with gay, and it's been that way for centuries. Gay vampires are the opposite of edgy.
We didn't get into real problems until some authors had the never to suggest those hairy, shapechanging and strangely intimate werewolves might be anything less than manly men who like the ladies...
>>46800661
No one ever said that good intentions excuses Tribebook: Children of Gaia. Just that they've not been shy about professing acceptance of "deviant lifestyles" for decades.
>>46800661
1990's pandering is a lot different beast from today.
Back then, exoticism was considered an acceptable form of inclusion, tolerance and demonstrated liberal bona fides.
Oh, how times change.
>>46800666
Or that Onyx Path employs a large group of individuals and their views might not be as monolithic and in line with yours as you think.
>>46800666
>He's said a bit more than that, too
No more than that Awakening is genderblind.
Though really I don't think that's true.
Personal identity crises are certainly the kind of thing which could set off the beginning of a Mystery Play, so I would actually say it's more likely for those who are questioning their sexual identity to Awaken.
Well, they'll still be able to Awaken due to other factors, but that's another factor which many people safe and secure in their heteronormative lives wouldn't really be exposed to.
>>46800756
That's not all of that post. Here. Let me help you:
Do we really need to have 'fagness' in the thread image? Can we not?
It just seems childish.
>>46800695
>>46800711
So their history is really more about being edgy than being transgressive, and more about the brand than trying to shoehorn politics into elfgames. That actually makes it easier to accept actually. Thanks.
>>46800756
That's a really useful post.
>>46800806
Welcome to 4chan.
>>46800806
Just have to have other people make the OP.
The guy who makes them now is really big on it.
>>46800786
Well of course, but I was mentioning the section about Gender.
>>46800823
It's pretty great, but good GOD does it take a long time to work through when you get down to the nitty gritty of each individual Mage.
>>46800666
First of all, nice trips
>Some of us actually WANT to know how Demons handle pregnancy when they change sex.
Presumably, if you change Covers while pregnant, you stop being pregnant. The Pregnancy is a condition associated with the Cover, not the Demon.
If you have a male Cover and pact yourself into a pregnancy, unless your Cover is a 100% homosexual man, you could always argue that the child is being born of a past/recent hook-up. Even then, you could argue a surrogate mother, just one who's identity consists wholly of being pregnant with your child.
If mpreg happens in your game, it's entirely up to you, and thus it's entirely up to you to decide the science of it.
>>46800853
Yeah. Just feels unfair to cut away so much of a useful post.
>>46800862
This seems like so much work for something that should be entirely downtime and off-screen.
>>46800806
>>46800848
It's mostly because he makes the new threads when the old one is on page 7 or 8, and I usually try to wait until it's on 9 or 10.
I was gonna start the thread with this, actually, but he beat me to it(again).
>>46800721
More than enough do.
>>46800786
>>46800756
I meant in other posts. Also, I definitely agree that among mages--or any sort of supernatural group--you're likely to have more people who are transgender in some way. Being able to shapeshift is also the kind of thing that will make you re-evaluate gender even if you weren't otherwise having such a crisis. I imagine most Thyrsus are pretty comfortable as either sex.
>>46800807
Sure, if that's how you want to put it. Either way, if you don't like it no one is forcing you to read it.
>>46800862
Actually, I was using that as an example because it actually is described in Heirs to Hell, the book all about Demonbabies. There are several options, and one is mpreg, while another is QUANTUM PREGNANCY. Also I think abortion?
You can also become a child's biological parent by having someone pact away the stereotypical first born. That child becomes a Demonborn even though you never actually had sex.
>>46800892
Pregnancies last for months, anon.
>>46800892
What?
Pregnancies last for 9 months man, if there is any time-related plot going on, that isn't going to wait in the background.
So, I missed the whole pitch thing and now I'm bitter.
Think they'll do it again?
>>46800756
>so I would actually say it's more likely for those who are questioning their sexual identity to Awaken.
Now that's stretching
>>46800911
>Either way, if you don't like it no one is forcing you to read it.
Anon literally just said he could accept it. Could you just fucking stop stirring shit?
What is this baphomet mage you are talking about? It sounds deviant, explain yourselves anons.
>>46801169
It's a Mage, who died during the crusades. It lived on as an astral construct however. It has forgotten it's mortal name, and even it's gender, in the centuries since.
Let's say I write a fantasy book about talking dogs. I am limited to a hundred pages. In at least one page per book, I include a elf joke. This goes on without issue for several years. My talking dog books become the basis for a whole genre of sentient animal books. People take their dogs to singing classes so that they can one day talk.
Then, I realize the load's too big to bear, so I hire some people to ghostwrite some more talking dog books. As it so happens, one of these writers is a dwarf comedian. Seeing the precedent of elf jokes in the books, he decides to write full stand-up routines based on elves, taking a good chunk of the 100 pages the talking dog books are limited to.
A lot of people compĺain about this change, but people are too hooked to the story of Semper Fido the Marine mascot to stop buying the talking dog books, and the elf jokes are not enough to make most of them stop buying them.
Should they, then, stop complaining about the elf jokes when they're getting less bang for their buck than they would have if the elf jokes were cut?
Will The Pack have additional Totem creation advice?
>>46801336
So. You mean to say that the inclusion-stuff takes up too much page-space?
>>46801336
>How to Butcher an Analogue: The Post
>>46801424
I guess that is what he is getting at.
Of course instead of 1 page in 100, he is talking about typically half a page in 300+, if we're talking crunch. If talking fluff, it doesn't matter because it is always only as useful as its entertainment value.
What I'm getting at is, I think >>46801336 is a crybaby.
>>46801169
>>46801241
Baphomet was also indirectly confirmed (reference to one of the signature Mastigos characters) to be a Lich. So yeah... Astral Lich.
>>46801424
Not necessarily that they take too much space, but that on principle if you're working with a limited amount of space you should at least try to keep litter to a minimum rather than encourage people to bring more, even if that space were the size of Australia
>>46801443
I don't see where I butchered it. I just wrote the first things that came into my mind because I wasn't willing to put any more effort into a 4chan post right now.
>>46801484
And it's not even mentioned in the majority of the books. The stuff that sends everyone's panties into a knot is in Mortal Remains and Requiem 2e. That's two books.
Whoop-de-fucking-do.
>>46801504
Yeah. That's what I meant with "lived on after death".
>>46801504
Sounds intriguing, where can i find it?
>>46801336
I hate elves. Those snotty little bastards.
I can deal with all the pronouns and transgender stuff just fine. However, it I start seeing too many uppity elves in my WW books, unless they concern cookie baking creatures who live in a tree, it will definitely be a bridge too far.
If I wanted elves, I'd play that other game, you know, the one with the dragons and dungeon.
>>46801504
Uh, aren't Liches in Mage typically soul stealers of a left-hand path? Not undead mage spirits?
>>46801484
You're saying I'm a crybaby due to disagreeing with you, so now I'll call you a SJW for disagreeing with me and on the end the discussion will amount to absolutely fucking nothing because everyone is too caught up on their biases
>>46801615
Except I'm glad to be called an SJW. It isn't really much of an insult when I agree with both the basis and the reality of it.
But what I mean by crybaby is that you are complaining about something that isn't really a crisis. You should realize that others enjoy the stuff you may not enjoy. If that small inclusion keeps more people in the hobby, in the fandom, and keeps OP making books in general, then isn't it worth that half page in 300+?
>>46801504
>Baphomet
>the signature Mastigos
>Astral Lich
So, the major notable transgender mage in the corebook is a Liche, a reviled setting antagonist.
Dave clearly didn't get the WW SJW memo about how to treat disadvantaged groups.
At least he didn't screw-up like Matt in Beast, and make Sleeping Beauty a evil psychopath aligned with men's rights groups and gamergate.
>>46799432
Vampires have golconda, sin-eaters have vacancy>>46799572
>Hunters experienced the supernatural, just like most everyone else in the CofD. They decided to fight it. Congratulations, you're still human.
Hunters have experienced an encounter that changed them so much they decided to spend the rest of their lives fighting the most dangerous beings on the planet.
They have all had changes.
>>46801566
Mage 2e core book, Mastigos write-up.
>>46801687
>So, the major notable transgender mage in the corebook is a Liche, a reviled setting antagonist.
Hey, you forget the hermaphrodite pzycho-nazis!
The other signature mage character is dying of cancer.
>>46801676
It does not matter whether something is actually an insult or not as long as it is meant as an insult for the purposes of the analogy. I can make that one about talking dogs and elves too if you want.
>But what I mean by crybaby is that you are complaining about something that isn't really a crisis
When my dog shits on the carpet I get angry at him but I don't throw him out of the house.
>>46801336
This is a dumb analogy, and not even accurate.
Until OPP writes something like Tribebook: Children of Gaia, you have no argument. On top of that, you ALREADY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GETTING.
>>46801599
Lich: A Mage who unnaturally extends their life through any means
Reaper: A Mage who steals and meddles with souls
Left-Handed: Any Mage who goes against the accepted ethics of being a mage
Banisher: A Mage who hunts and kills other Mages
The Tremere aren't the only Liches, they just happen to have "Lich" in their name. They're also a triple threat of Reaper Lich and Left-Handed. Hell, you could even argue that they're Banishers, because they intentionally hunt other Mages. During the Crusades, they hunted down Reaper Legacies, before people realized they were also Reapers (they were too good at their job).
>>46801687
That's never what Sleeping Beauty was. Not even in the first draft.
>>46801733
No she's not. She just shaves her head because the magical not-real lightning feels uncomfortable coursing through her hair.
>>46801733
Nope. She has shaved her head because her nimbus fucks with her hair.
>>46801572
Man, you're not going to be happy when Deviant just turns out to be a game about being an elf.
>>46801689
You've just described schizophrenia or other psychological disorders, not the transformation of a human into 'something else' within the CofD.
Unless explicitly stated otherwise (e.g., most Tier 3 Conspiracies), Hunters are plain vanilla humans. That's one of the primary themes of the game - turning into a monster by hunting them.
There are any number of ways for a Hunter to become more or less than human. They can simply but some supernatural merits. However, a psychopathic desire to hunt supernatural creatures because you saw the supernatural does not qualify under the rules of the game unless things change in 2e.
>>46801751
Okay man, if you don't want to talk that's fine.
But you're in /wodg/, the SJWs have already won here. I really don't have to worry how this conversation ends.
>>46801774
>Tribebook: Children of Gaia
Just the Revised version, I remember 2e's being not a complete tire fire.
>>46801774
I haven't gone through as many Mage splats. The Tremere are the only group I've ever seen called Liches directly.
>>46801787
Deviant: the Elfing ???
That sounds very uncomfortable.
Is the power stat "Lubricity?"
>>46801599
>>46801825
Those are Tremere, who eat souls to live longer. Lich is the 2e Mage term for anyone who has survived beyond the limits of their mortal lifespan by Left-Handed means.
The Left-Handed means are important, because all the truly permanent ways are varying degrees of Left. You can easily become immortal with Death or Time, but then you're a good dispellation roll away from crumbling into dust.
Not sure why Astral Liches are necessarily left-handed, but they're explicitly named (Morpheans) in the dev blog, so presumably they will be clarified later.
>>46801733
>>46801774
>>46801783
In the chronicle, there's a story about a mage specifically dying of cancer because none of her allies know Life and she's pissed off all the Life mages of sufficient power that she knows.
>>46801797
>the SJWs have already won here
Not really. This thread is full of idiots who complain about SJW bullshit because the idea that other people might get representation drives them insane.
>>46801825
Yeah. They were in the corebook afterall. I think they sort of dropped calling them "Tremere Liches" to just calling them Tremere, but I may be wrong about that. I'd have to look over Left-Handed Path, which really elaborates on them in awesome ways beyond their pretty bland core write-up.
Look for the 2e devblog titled Sympathy for the Sinister, though.
>>46801825
The Tremere are the signature liches and reapers.
>>46801825
Yeah. They are expanding the term to anyone who extends their life past reasonable mortal bounds. The exact definition of a Lich varies, but generally, turning yourself into something that doesn't age (Spirit, Ghost, Astral Entity) and anyone that feeds off of mortals are there.
The term got expanded to what it is now in Left-Hand Path, the last book of 1e.
>>46801797
I do want to talk, that's why I typed that post instead of leaving the thread. I was laconic because people apparently got angry at my convoluted talking dog analogy.
>But you're in /wodg/, the SJWs have already won here. I really don't have to worry how this conversation ends.
I don't know what you mean by this post. I want to demonstrate my point and hopefully understand another in more depth by talking. I don't want to win anything.
>>46801868
>In the chronicle, there's a story about a mage specifically dying of cancer because none of her allies know Life and she's pissed off all the Life mages of sufficient power that she knows.
Yeah, but that's not her, right? Lucy just helps, if I recall correctly.
>>46801774
>No she's not. She just shaves her head because the magical not-real lightning feels uncomfortable coursing through her hair.
>>46801774
>Nope. She has shaved her head because her nimbus fucks with her hair.
No, it's cancer.
The only life mage who can cure it around is forcing her to commit evil acts in exchange for a cure.
>>46801922
I've not made or excluded the connection between the character and the art.
Could you check >>46801927?
>>46801877
Why are they idiots for complaining about something you just called bullshit? How is it about them getting representation?
>>46801947
Ah right. It was her.
Anyhow, she shaved her hair long before that.
Also, the fact that one has cancer doesn't cause hair loss, it's the chemo that does that.
>>46801927
That's dumb. Curing cancer isn't a complicated Life spell. Even if she couldn't find anyone with Life 3 she could just get a friend to learn it.
>>46801947
>And before that, I headlined Ibiza.
Do you think there's many other Brit, bald acanthus mages with vampire friends who are also DJs
>>46801989
Named Lucy?
>>46801989
I read the story a while ago and didn't recall the details, but you had posted the relevant page and clearly had it open. Thanks for the confirm.
>>46801986
The thing is, if it was something you were born with is part of your pattern => curing that disease or condition will be akin to make fundamental changes to a living pattern => changes to living patterns pre-Archmastery can't be made Indefinite.
So, magic may aleviate the condition for a time, but it will need constant upkeep. Furthermore, as was pointed out, all the years under such condition have the muscles probably atrofiated, wich is a whole different problem on top.
In short, is not something that a simple "Cure Disease" spell is going to solve. A battery of related spells atached to an Imbued Item is probaly the way to go (Imbued Items can be a way around the "changes to living patterns can't be Indefinite" part).
>>46802035
Obviously this is talking about 1e
IIRC, people were complaining that Lucy looked flatter than she did before. Perhaps she had a mastectomy.
>>46797155
That should be:
>Cuckles of Whiteness
>Using Darkness as an implied negative is offensive, you heternormative shitlord
>>46801774
>Lich: A Mage who unnaturally extends their life through any means
Didn't they have a more traditional term they could use? WoD doesn't usually borrow creatures from the D&D monster manual. Are they going to introduce orcs and beholders next?
>>46801986
>she could just get a friend to learn it
The risk is that the threat is imminent and who knows how long it would take to learn. They had explicitly alienated everyone who was capable of casting it.
>>46802035
2e explicitly has indefinite spells castable on living beings and Imbued living beings. The mechanics have changed somewhat.
>>46802063
Yeah, and from 1e that's all correct, but the chronicle uses 2e metaphysics, or at least takes stories that don't conflict with 2e or rely on 1e too much.
>>46801927
That story was awesome. I just thought I'd say that. I think what's neat about the Mage Anthology is that there's a story arc with Lucy and The Nemean being told through some of the stories, you don't really get that in any other Anthology save for Firestorm's Talk About The Weather, which is almost the same but more like an epilogue for Great-Grandfather Crow.
>>46802143
The problem is even if you cured her cancer magically, it would come back later unless you changed her cellular structure and pattern and DNA from the bottom up, which would still require a powerful Life mage who would still require her to do whatever they want to do it.
>>46802035
Life 3 Fraying, targeting the cancer. The spell's duration doesn't matter, for the same reason that you don't grow back an arm if someone's cursed it off.
>>46802143
It's only Life 3. Starting characters can manage that.
>>46802135
Lich is a much older term than D&D. Although the original meaning was just a corpse or dead body (albeit this was waaaaay back in 9th century).
It's more closely associated to D&D withing gaming culture, but is in the same vein of complaints as calling psionics too sci-fi while they are all over hidnu mythology.
>>46802170
>Starting characters can manage that
They can and neither her nor her friend stared out with it. If they just had a friend with Life 3, there wouldn't be a story.
>>46802169
This is the Fallen World we're talking about, a cage made of symbols where physics, space and DNA are part of the lie... The spell just deletes the 'Cancer' symbol from her pattern (or supresses it at lower levels). Heck, if she didn't mind having it, Time 2 can put it into stasis, basically forever. Indefinite duration spells drift in function/meaning though and supposedly moreso on living patterns. That will definitely be in the core book.
My guess is that paradox creeps in to long lasting spells and twists them, so they need maintenance and knowing what to look for.
>>46802170
>Life 3 Fraying, targeting the cancer. The spell's duration doesn't matter, for the same reason that you don't grow back an arm if someone's cursed it off.
Yes, but cancer doesn't just work like that, that's why it's hard to treat in real life, even if you kill it with a fraying spell, it can come back, the same way an ingrown nail might (but obviously a lot worse)
>>46797155
Fagness: the Masquerade
>>46802336
If you're fated to get cancer, you'd just need to add Fate X to remove/ward against future cancer.
>>46802294
>>46802170
What you're thinking of is a tumor, the result of cancer. Cancer itself is your cells deciding to multiply beyond normal, often because your body is flawed in its programming.
You can destroy a tumor, but the cancer would cause another to grow.
>>46802336
So you cast it again. And you keep casting every time it comes back.
>>46802407
Magical metaphysics man, it doesn't work that way in the Fallen World. DNA and most of science is how the Sleepers rationalize it.
>>46802426
Yes, which is why it's a bigger deal than just casting a spell once. You need to have ready access to a Mage who can cast it on you at any moment
>>46802294
>Lich is a much older term than D&D.
So is "beholder". If they introduced a floating monster covered in eye-stalks and called it a beholder, I think it would be safe to say they are borrowing from D&D, not just a staggering coincidence. Likewise when they have sinister, immortal spellcasters called liches.
>>46801868
>In the chronicle, there's a story about a mage specifically dying of cancer because none of her allies know Life and she's pissed off all the Life mages of sufficient power that she knows.
L O L
O
L
>>46801975
I'm saying the people who complain about there being "SJW" things in WoD books are idiots.
>>46802170
>Starting characters can manage that.
You're misunderstanding the difference between gameplay and story segregation. You can start with Life 3, yes, but that represents upwards of a year of training at least, on top of inherent magical knowledge.
>>46802336
>>46802294
Honestly, you can change someone's sex permanently with Life in 2e. The problem isn't that it's impossible to do, it's that she doesn't know anyone that likes her well enough to want to do it for her.
>>46802431
While science doesn't rule Awakening, in this section it does win out. Because "cancer" isn't really something you can target, though a tumor is (providing you can see it)
>>46802481
Startign characters being able to manage that matters because that means that a substantial portion of Mages will have that level of Life.
>>46802476
They've actually got the name beholder trademarked. The word you're thinking of is someone just watching something.
A lich has been used as an undead sorcerer for a long time before D&D (and well after it was just used to call corpses)
>>46802481
>Honestly, you can change someone's sex permanently with Life in 2e.
your body isn't constantly telling you to grow a new penis or vadge.
>>46802491
Cancer is a symbol in your pattern. A symbol which produces tumors. You can cover up the cancer symbol or delete it outright and handle the tumors. Some of that's Life, other things might be Fate.
>>46802521
1/5th of the magical population can also teleport. Yes they exist. All the ones they've encountered are not willing to help. There aren't THAT many mages out there and even fewer that any given mage will encounter in their lifespan.
>>46802491
>"cancer" isn't really something you can target
Sure is.
Probably not with Life 3, but Life 4 should be able to do it.
At that stage you can permanently turn someone into a Chinchilla.
A few friends and I used to play once every two weeks before our schedules stopped lining up well enough for all of us to play. It was such a let down. Our campaign had a ton of potential, although probably lacking in cohesion.
We had one guy who actually knew what he was doing, and he was just playing a support character so he could also assist the DM, who was also a rookie.
The whole thing was set in/around Plymouth, within a few years of the Mayflower landing, and it involved a bunch of stuff like the disappearance of Roanoke, the Anglo-Spanish War, and Samoset's relationship to the Wampanoag Indians.
Among those of us who didn't know what we were doing, I was a Moros mage (I still don't know what the hell I can do with three points in Death magic. What the hell does the ability to control death even mean, anyway?), one of us was a mad genius made to serve as a clone of the TF2 Demoman, and the other was a were-Parrot (technically a quetzal, but no one knows what a quetzal is)
>>46802481
>Honestly, you can change someone's sex permanently with Life in 2e.
Permanently, until dispelled.
Will also draw attention of mages.
>>46802585
>Will also draw attention of mages.
So does practically everything else.
Like the rooms below, the chamber was full of precious artifacts; and iron-bound volumes and brazen books of occult, tremendous necromancy, together with golden and earthen censers, and vials of unshatterable crystal, were strewn in weird confusion about the mosaic floor. At the very center there sat the old archimage in his chair of primeval ivory, peering with stark, immovable eyes at the night-black window.
Nygon and Fustules felt their awe return upon them, remembering too clearly now the thrice-baleful mastery that this man had wielded, and the demon lore he had known, and the spells he had wrought that were irrefragable by other wizards. The specters of these things rose up before them as if by a final necromancy. With down-dropped eyes and humble mien, they went forward, bowing reverentially. Then, speaking aloud, in accordance with their predetermined plan, Fustules requested an oracle of their fortunes from Malygris.
There was no answer, and lifting their eyes, the brothers were greatly reassured by the aspect of the seated ancient. Death alone could have set the grayish pallor on the brow, could have locked the lips in a rigor as of fast-frozen clay. The eyes were like cavern-shadowed ice, holding no other light than a vague reflection of the lamps. Under the beard that was half silver, half sable, the cheeks had already fallen in as with beginning decay, showing the harsh outlines of the skull. The gray and hideously shrunken hands, whereon the eyes of enchanted beryls and rubies burned, were clenched inflexibly on the chair-arms which had the form of arching basilisks.
>>46802576
>were-Parrot
What the fuck?
Also, what is a meso-american doing in Plymouth?
>>46802524
>A lich has been used as an undead sorcerer for a long time before D&D
I'm going to have to call bullshit on that, unless you have an example.
>>46802615
Way ahead of you.
>>46802607
"Verily," murmured Nygon, "there is naught here to frighten or dismay us. Behold, it is only the lich of an old man after all, and one that has cheated the worm of his due provender overlong."
"Aye," said Fustules. "But this man, in his time, was the greatest of all necromancers. Even the ring on his little finger is a sovereign talisman. The balas-ruby of the thumbring of his right hand will conjure demons from out of the deep. In the volumes that lie about the chamber, there are secrets of perished gods and the mysteries of planets immemorial. In the vials, there are sirups that give strange visions, and philtres that can revive the dead. Among these things, it is ours to choose freely."
Nygon, eyeing the gems greedily, selected a ring that encircled the right forefinger with the sixfold coils of a serpent of orichalchum, bearing in its mouth a beryl shaped like a griffin's egg. Vainly, however, he tried to loosen the finger from its rigid clutch on the chair-arm, to permit the removal of the ring. Muttering impatiently, he drew a knife from his girdle and prepared to hew away the finger. In the meanwhile, Fustules had drawn his own knife as a preliminary before approaching the other hand.
"Is thy heart firm within thee, brother?" he inquired in a sort of sibilant whisper. "If so, there is even more to be gained than these talismanic rings. It is well known that a wizard who attains to such supremacy as Malygris, undergoes by virtue thereof a complete bodily transformation, turning his flesh into elements more subtle than those of common flesh. And whoso eats of his flesh even so much as a tiny morsel will share thereafter in the powers owned by the wizard."
Nygon nodded as he bent above the chosen finger. "This, too, was in my thought," he answered.
>>46802634
Before he or Fustules could begin their ghoulish attack, they were startled by a venomous hissing that appeared to emanate from the bosom of Malygris. They drew back in amazement and consternation, while a small coral viper slid from behind the necromancer's beard, and glided swiftly over his knees to the floor like a sinuous rill of scarlet. There, coiling as if to strike, it regarded the thieves with eyes that were cold and malignant as drops of frozen poison.
"By the black thorns of Taaran!" cried FustuIes. "It is one of Malygris' familiars. I have heard of this viper--"
Turning, the two would have fled from the room. But, even as they turned, the walls and portals seemed to recede before them, fleeing giddily and interminably, as if unknown gulfs had been admitted to the chamber. A vertigo seized them; reeling, they saw the little segments of mosaic under their feet assume the proportions of mighty flags. Around them the strewn books and censers and vials loomed enormous, rearing above their heads and barring their way as they ran.
Nygon, looking over his shoulder, saw that the viper had turned to a vast python, whose crimson coils were undulating swiftly along the floor. In a colossal chair, beneath lamps that were large as suns, there sat the colossal form of the dead archimage, in whose presence Nygon and Fustules were no more than pigmies. The lips of Malygris were still immobile beneath his beard; and his eyes still glared implacably upon the blackness of the far window. But at that instant a voice filled the awful spaces of the room, reverberating like thunder in the heavens, hollow and tremendous:
"Fools! ye have dared to ask me for an oracle. And the oracle is — death!"
>from 1934
>>46802612
Cortes' conquest of the Aztec Empire + Rising tensions between Spain and England.
Among the various implements of arcane manufacture which the pupils of Avalzaunt had buried in the crypt beside the mortal remains of their unlamented master there was a burnished speculuum of black steel wherein presently the cadaver of Avalzaunt beheld its own repulsive likeness. It was skull-like, that sere and fulvous visage which peered back at the necromancer from the ebon depths of the magic mirror. Avalzaunt had seen such shrunken and decayed lineaments oft aforetime upon prehistoric mummies rifled from the crumbling fanes of civilizations anterior to his own. Seldom, however, had the reanimated lich gazed upon so delightfully decomposed and withered a visage as this bony and wizened horror which was its own face.
The lich next turned its rapt scrutiny on what remained of its lean and leathery body and tested brittle limbs draped in the rags of a rotting shroud, finding these embued with an adamantine and a tireless vigor, albeit they were gaunt and attenuated to a degree which may only be described as skeletal. Whatever the source of the supranormal energy which now animated the corpse of the necromancer, it lent the undead creature a vigor it had never previously enjoyed in life, not even in the long-ago decades of its juvenescence.
-different story
CAS was ridiculous with his old words
>>46802521
No they won't. Thyrsus, sure, but not any random Mage. Most Mages won't really have 3 dots in something not part of their specialties until they're at least a first degree Master.
>>46802549
>Cancer is a symbol in your pattern.
I have no idea why you seem to think this, or why you think it would matter. "It's symbolic" isn't a thing in 2e anymore. You can transmute gold right away.
>>46802585
No, I'm pretty sure it's a transitory effect by Life 3, just like your healing can't be dispelled. Dave's talked about that before. I pointed out that I've played transgender mages who weren't capable of transforming themselves permanently yet and that caused conflict for them. He said that's not really a story I'd be able to tell in 2e because it's (relatively) trivial to change your gender. Or fix your congenital disability. Or grow that arm back.
Mages aren't generally infirm or disabled, even if they were born that way.
>>46802656
>>46802634
>Behold, it is only the lich of an old man after all, and one that has cheated the worm of his due provender overlong."
That it? It's using the word "lich" in it's original meaning, as a corpse. It's not using it as a specific term for an immortal spellcaster any more than "old man".
>>46802722
Yeah.
I think D&D fused the undead-sorcerer-with-soul-bound-in-object with the word.
But it was first with neither.
>>46802710
1/10 of all starting Mages, and even more once you start getting some experience.
In addition, Mages in 2e will have an entire system about networking within the Consilium to acquire item and spellcasting services they cannot perform themselves.
>>46802722
In both cases it is a corpse of a spellcaster that is animated.
>>46802557
>At that stage you can permanently turn someone into a Chinchilla.
Congratulations, your Chinchilla has cancer
>>46802854
So you're saying that cancer is an affliction of the soul. Unrelated to biology?
>>46802892
No, that chinchillas aren't immune to cancer
>>46802912
And? The Practice of Weaving can completely restructure the target's entire biology. Including the various biological factors that lead tot he formation of tumors.
Effectively rendering them immune to cancer.
>>46802912
Wait... can Chinchillas get cancer?
>>46802941
My bad, not Weaving.
Patterning.
>>46802708
God I love Clark Ashton Smith stories. He writes circles around Lovecraft.
>>46802943
Everything living can.
>>46802976
Well, duh. There is stuff that grows on damp bread that can write circles around old Herbert. It's not his writing skill that he is remembered for, but his ideas.
>>46802769
It used to just mean corpse and then came to mean "undead creature that was never burried" and then D&D came along and associated it with sorcerers specifically based on Koschei the Deathless (undying sorceror in Slavic folklore that kept his soul in a needle).
Besides, Mage Liches don't have to have Phylacteries. They're just too far removed from humanity to give a fuck.
>>46802710
>symbols
>http://theonyxpath.com/falling-down/
>Everything in the universe is loaded with meaning, abstract properties, and magical symbolism, which modern metaphysics calls Universals and Plato called Forms, but which Mage just calls ‘symbols’. Two cats share the symbol of “cat”, the symbol of “animal”, the symbol of “furred” and so on. One might be “black” and another “white”. Both might be “male”. That’s a physical, real creature with just a few of its’ symbols. In the World of Darkness, some symbols are less well recognized – cats “see the unseen”.
Symbols are the supernal informing the fallen world how things are. Mages can see those symbols and manipulate them.
I doubt that everyone without cancer has a symbol for "doesn't have cancer" like the above example with black and white cats, but your maladies are still part of your pattern and fair game to the proper arcana. Besides, she could put it into stasis with a spoiled Time 2 spells that prevents persistent conditions from manifesting or progressing (with the added benefit of not aging).
>>46802576
>(I still don't know what the hell I can do with three points in Death magic. What the hell does the ability to control death even mean, anyway?)
Well, with 3 dots, you've got
>1. Compelling, Knowing, Unveling
You can see ghosts, reveal them to other people, and nudge them into doing something they'd likely do anyways. You can tell when someone is going to die, let others perceive this information, or make someone who is barely holding on die. You can see in the dark, allow others to, or nudge a shadow over a bit. Etc.
>2. Ruling, Shielding, Veiling
You can make someone in the hospital, who isn't *entirely* health, but isn't very close to dying keel over, prevent death from claiming someone for a bit, or hide a corpse. You can force a ghost to do something they wouldn't normally do, defend someone against ghosts, or hide a ghost from view. You can shift a shadow to cover most of a room it wasn't previously in, keep darkness away from something, or hide a shadow. Et cetera.
>3. Fraying, Perfecting, Weaving
You can mess with the appearance of a corpse, make someone who is moderately healthy die, or make a corpse stay dead. You can weaken the barrier between the Physical world and the Underworld, hurt a ghost, heal a ghost, or enchant things to be able to interact with ghosts in Twilight. You can remove a shadow from an area, fuck with shadows, mend part of a shadow that's been fucked with, or alter the shape of a shadow.
TL;DR Death's main purview is corpses, shadows, and ghosts/the underworld. You can do quite a bit of stuff to/involving those things.
>>46802941
Weaving explicitly cannot turn something into something else, just alter it. You could give someone fur, teeth, and a tail, but they're just a fucked up human, not a chinchilla. Turning something completely into something else requires Patterning, Life 4.
>>46802775
Yeah, and the point of the story is THEY COULDN'T FIND ANYBODY WHO WAS WILLING TO HELP THEM.
>>46803011
>Koschei the Deathless
I personally think Sauron and the Witch-King of Angmar were bigger inspirations, but sure.
>>46803032
Maybe they were a shitcunt?
>>46803001
Oh for certain, it's just that I knew someone that was just in love with Lovecraft's prose, and it always bugged me because CAS does that same kind of prose but way better.
>>46803037
Koschei is much older and I'm not sure if Sauron or WKoA's weaknesses match with phylacteries quite as well. The needle literally held Koschei's soul and he put it there on purpose. I don't recall that being specified for the other two, but my Tolkein is rusty.
>>46803032
>THEY COULDN'T FIND ANYBODY WHO WAS WILLING TO HELP THEM
Without asking a steep and awful price*
>>46803111
But whyy?
Lovecraft did sub-par prose, and couldn't write dialogue to save his life (which is why practically all his stories are re-tellings).
I still love his stuff, but I am fully aware of it's shortcomings.
>>46803011
>Koschei the Deathless
Unrelated to CofD, at all, my old group once tried Blade of the Iron Throne, and our GM set this guy up as the BBEG. We only played a few sessions, though, so the most we ever ran into was a skeleton and an elf who hid it's body under wrappings; everything else was 100% mundane.(Or, at least, we don't know that anything else wasn't; we did find an obsidian gem in the tomb we fought the skeleton in, with something carved on it, but we didn't get time to look into it before the game ended)
>>46803065
It was straight up said before the discussion of how many people should know Life 3/4/whatever would be necessary that she pissed off or wasn't trusted all of the Mages they could find who DID have the capability to help her.
>>46803162
>wasn't trusted all of the Mages
Speaking of, that's another good point. You never know if the Mage you meet that just happens to have the power to help you is trustworthy. Might be a Seer or Left-Handed or just abusing Fate/Time to find desperate marks. Background checks take time.
