>Previous Thread
>>46678092
>Pastebin
http://pastebin.com/NjH6gQqi
>20th anniversary editions
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/lfa6qw2ocfd2y/Roleplaying#mt9aacn2r93i2
>Mage Sight Spoilers
http://theonyxpath.com/i-can-see-for-miles-and-miles-mage-the-awakening/
>Question
How do feel about Mage's imminent return to Supremacy?
chronicles of fagness
>>46733026
>How do feel about Mage's imminent return to Supremacy?
For clarification, by this I mean "Mage is the best game" not "Mages are the strongest splat"
>>46733026
>How do feel about Mage's imminent return to Supremacy?
Looking forward to it. It's fun to watch powergamers go through their adept-life crisis.
>>46733150
With that clarification, still looking forward to it, albeit concerned that the Mage Sight rules allow for brute forcing Mysteries.
>>46733150
The fact that they're also the most overpowered is just a happy accident
>>46733150
>For clarification, by this I mean "Mage is the best game" not "Mages are the strongest splat"
Impossible until Werewolf 2e is retconned out of existence.
>>46733212
>Impossible until Werewolf 2e is retconned out of existence.
But you can just play a Thyrsus can get more or less the same experience. Granted, Quiescence will fuck you over instead of Lunacy, but you're still a shape-shifting spirit cop.
Werewolf 2e is pretty great, though.
>>46733179
>>46733189
>Implying Mage has more powergamers than any other line
>Obviously ignoring Paradox, Wisdom, and all the other downsides Mages get
I really should have inb4'd people trying to start actual mage supremacy arguments
>Inb4 further Mage Supremacy arguments
>>46733212
Speaking of WtF, aren't there rules for mixing different supernaturals into your pack?
>>46733026
I'm calling Division Six. Let's see what the reality-deviants will do against America's finest!
>>46733150
Promethean is bestsplat. Hunter is pretty cool too.
>>46733274
>Paradox
Singular in 2e, which can be negated
>Wisdom
Oh no, if only we had magic that can regenerate Wisdom that's lost....
>all the other
Such as? besides ST fiat of course.
>>46733299
>>Wisdom
>Oh no, if only we had magic that can regenerate Wisdom that's lost....
I haven't really kept up with mage, is that real? Because it sounds really, really stupid.
>>46733283
Division Six is working for a Seer Pylon!
>>46733339
It isn't real, >>46733299 is just a tool who hasn't read the fucking books.
>>46733274
Mage has plenty of mitigating mechanics, but the powergamers I'm talking about are either the people who either ignore paradox and the like, by assuming they'll just have access to enough mitigation factors, or just ignore it when formulating their grand, game breaking plans and get hit by it in the aforementioned adept-life crisis.
>>46733299
>if only we had magic that can regenerate Wisdom that's lost
Wait, what? I'm relatively certain that doesn't work as easily as you're implying (if at all), as that would remove the existence of the Mad.
>>46733371
You've read Mage 2e?
>>46733274
>but you're still a shape-shifting spirit cop.
Werewolves aren't spirit cops, so there goes that argument.
>>46733277
Yes. They're getting more of them in the next book to come out (probably within amonth)
Pic related - Werewolf with 4-5 pack members fighting a Pure
>>46733299
You assume Mages can do anything, that is why you fail.
>>46733384
No it isn't out yet, have you read it?
>>46733385
>Werewolves aren't spirit cops
Two thirds of them aren't.
>>46733425
Of course not. But you accused me of not reading the books
>>46733385
I hope The Pack's rules expand to having werewolves in other supernaturals' groups and if the two are compatible.
Like having a pack with a member that's in a cabal and a cabal with a member in a pack.
>>46733347
Lies! Slander! Next thing you'll be telling me the Knights of Saint George worship malignant entities from the abyss!
Seriously though, I wish Division Six was poor's man Valkyrie. Understaffed, poorly equipped and barely knowing what they are fighting.
>>46733444
Even if they decide to hunt spirits, they're not spirit cops.
>>46733462
Since cabal rules aren't out yet that would be a little weird, especially for a Werewolf book.
>>46733449
Well you actually can't use your magic to regain Wisdom, you can put dots into it with experience, but you can't just go 'LOL TIME MAGIC LMAO.' and get a do over just because you fucked up.
>>46733505
Couldn't you use time to fast forward to a point where you become more wise?
>>46733505
Wouldn't mind let you recover Wisdom drain?
>>46733499
Cabal rules are known to the devs though as they're already set in stone. I know it's unrealistic, but given the cross-splat oriented option, it would be nice if they go
>>46733537
Sure, in theory. But knowing how to pull that off would require research and by the time you figure it out, you'll just be more wise.
Kidding aside, it doesn't work that way because if it did, all the time mages would just skip to the parts where they ascend. Main stumbling block is figuring out how to adjust your timeline around all the ways you'll die before your goal comes around.
>>46733578
Nope. Nor boost it. 1e did have a spell that let you bypass a specific wisdom roll (GofV rote, obviously), but using it too often (more than once per chapter) forces an immediate roll anyway. There's a bunch of others that let you delay the consequences of degeneration and the like, but nothing that gets you around the exp cost of raising it back up.
>>46733462
Why would cabals let in werewolves?
>>46733780
Bodyguard
>>46733794
They'd just be an employee. If you got a human/Sleeper bodyguard, would they be part of the cabal?
>>46733780
Why would packs let in vampires or wizards? Pooling of resources to accomplish mutual goals. Diversity is useful. For one thing, they'd be resistant to Life magic as they are half Spirit.
>>46733916
Because the pack structure is fundamentally different than the cabal one.
Packs are "us against them" cabals are "us mages"
>>46733961
>us mages
Cabals now include sleepwalkers and regular humans (or did in the last cycle of open dev blogs).
The fiction includes multi-splat regular groups.
In 1e all the splat structures were exclusive, but I don't think that applies anymore. Has there been a confirmed "no furries or hemophages" rule to cabals or is this 1e stuff?
Psst. Pssst.
Hey.
It's Werewolf Time: http://theonyxpath.com/get-your-motor-running/
>>46734135
>Cabals now include sleepwalkers and regular humans
gonna need citation
Cabals, Columns, and Pylons
As in last edition, these are our character-group sized unit; in-setting, they vary between two and thirty members. Some are loose associations sharing nothing more than the communal rent on a few safe houses, while others are tight-knit circles of mages who deliberately choose Shadow Names to take on complimentary roles, enhancing their group rituals. A cabal’s symbolism is as important as a Shadow Name in most mages’ eyes, especially Diamond mages who judge one another on cabal names and themes. The larger and older a cabal is, the more likely an internal pecking Order is to develop, as apprentices graduate but stick around in the same cabal as their much more powerful mentors. It’s unusual, however, for a cabal to last longer than its founding members—only cabals with powerful themes or dedicated students who want to carry on their heritage last past a hundred years, and they’re noteworthy for doing it.
“Cabal” is, strictly speaking, a Pentacle Order term. More than that, it’s a Diamond Order term. Libertines can and often do join cabals, but the Free Council has so many mages that a significant minority of their members don’t. Assemblies group their constituents who don’t have cabals into “Columns,” which have revolutionary connotations and a reputation for direct action. Most Pentacle cabals are made up of mages from a mix of Orders – it’s been that way since the Diamond were founded, and single-Order cabals are seen as both extremely dedicated to their area of interest and the mouthpieces of their Caucus.
Seers, of course, stand isolated from the other five Orders. Seer Pylons are usually larger than cabals and have clearly defined command structures, far beyond the rudimentary acknowledgement of greater experience in older cabals. Pylons are as likely to be mixed-Ministry as cabals are to be single-Order.
>>46734314
Nice
THE THOUSAND STEEL TEETH
Steel Predators, Road Wolves, Gear Dogs
He’s on the road out of town, pedal to the metal. The wolves were on his bloody trail, but he knows they’re territorial animals and no way they’ll track him on the highway. He glances at his wing mirror and his eyes widen; he sees a car coming up behind, headlights bright in the night. The shape behind the wheel has a grin that’s far too wide, and filled with way too many teeth.
I must be retarded because I want to get into Chronicles of Darkness but I literally can't figure out what books are for which ruleset, since apparently there are three or four.
>>46734578
Chronicles of Darkness for "base"" rules, playing a mortal, adding rules onto other games (investigations, monster making).
Demon the Descent for Demon the Descent.
You need Chronicles of Darkness to go with this one.
You don't for these, but it goes into more details about rules and has a lot more extra stuff.
Vampire the Requiem 2e for Vampire the Requiem.
Beast the Primordial for Beast the Primordial.
Werewolf the Forsaken 2e for Werewolf the Forsaken.
>>46734578
Do you mean between 1st and 2nd edition, or between CofD and WoD?
>>46734417
lessing: When she spends Willpower to add dice to a Drive roll, a Crafts roll to repair or modify a vehicle, or an Athletics roll to move between moving vehicles, the Lodge member gains the rote quality on that roll.
Aspiration: To improve and enhance a vehicle the adherent possesses.
Ban: A Lodge member cannot sleep in the same place on consecutive nights; she must travel to a different resting place at least a mile away.
The Sacred Hunt
The Lodge Sacred Hunt grants your character the ability to track prey even while she is in a moving vehicle; she suffers no penalties to the tracking attempt for the prey using a vehicle. While the prey is in a vehicle, your character can downgrade any lethal damage to bashing damage that is inflicted due to being hit by a vehicle, falling off a moving vehicle or her own vehicle being damaged or destroyed.
>>46734578
New World of Darkness was 1e, and covered everything from Vampire up through Mummy.
Demon: the Descent, Beast: the Primordial, and the Chronicles of Darkness corebook are all 2e, as are the Vampire: the Requiem and Werewolf: the Forsaken second editions. Mage: the Awakening, Promethean: the Created, and Changeling: the Lost all have second editions coming out, but aren't released yet. There's a few supplements on the horizon as well; The Pack is imminent for Werewolf 2e.
>>46734314
>we got the only one of the five Lodges in the book that I don't care about previewed
This is a cruel way to make me buy this book. Not that there's anything wrong with Mad Max werewolves, but I'm painfully curious about the Eaters of the Dead and Chris mentioned that the Lodge of Galm has a tie to Wepawet.
I can't believe I'm excited for a Werewolf book.
>>46733578
Wisdom is Death, for one thing.
>>46734381
>Thirty-member Cabals
Christ on a bike.
>>46734381
It's in Supporting Cast, but I was off by a degree of magnitude.
>Awakening second edition depicts the Orders as employing a multitude of Sleepwalkers, minor magical talents, Proximi, subject-matter experts and entirely unknowing Sleepers.
Just packs confirmed for now then. It would still make sense from a logistics perspective if they keep the aspect of Cabals holding territory within a city, but that may get dumped.
>>46734848
Big city cabals no doubt. Or ones that dedicate themselves to running a particular aspect of an Order, like a major Aethenarium.
>>46734831
Souls are Death. 1e Wisdom was the domain of mind, but 2e Wisdom is very different from morality, so we don't know what, if anything, will be able to influence it.
>>46734381
>tfw no cabal themed around the Kemetic pantheon
>tfw no group of fellow Egyptaboos
>>46734916
>A cabal’s symbolism is as important as a Shadow Name in most mages’ eyes, especially Diamond mages who judge one another on cabal names and themes.
A cabal’s symbolism is as important as a Shadow Name in most mages’ eyes, especially Diamond mages who judge one another on cabal names and themes.
>>46734958
And yet the average group of players just slaps a bunch of random shit together.
I hope 2e has a merit or something to represent having cohesive symbolism.
>>46734314
I WANT TO RUN A ONE SHOT OF MAD MAX WOLFS. I can't wait for this book
FWIW there's an extra section for each Lodge that got cut but which will hopefully be in a web supplement; a few hundred words giving a bit more detail on some of the weird shit relating to the Lodge, such as ceremonies, blasphemous beliefs and other stuff that the Lodge keeps hidden from 'public' Forsaken knowledge.
>>46735431
>the Lodge of Apollo and Eaters of thr Dead can get more heretical than they already sound
Jesus.
>>46735431
This is great stuff.
>>46735541
The core said the eaters of the dead don't actually eat bodies (except maybe vampires)
>>46735431
Is >>46733462 part of The Pack ?
>>46735601
Weeeeell the Eaters of the Dead try *not* to have to eat normal human corpses. Bans can be a bitch, though.
>>46735765
The section of the book that deals with other supernaturals ain't my bit.
>>46735765
Yes
http://theonyxpath.com/the-pack-werewolf-the-forsaken/
Packmates who aren’t part of the “typical pack”, including spirits, mundane wolves, and the supernatural protagonists of the other Chronicles of Darkness games.
>>46735601
They don't eat the dead, but they might be on the cusp of becoming a Tribe.
>>46734314
Holy fuck werewolves can have 5 aspiration!
>>46736074
But does that interface to the group mechanics of those other supernatural protagonists? I guess we'll have to see unless the author of that section shows up.
>>46736188
>the group mechanics of those other supernatural protagonists?
what group mechanics?
Anyone else more excited for Troupe Play in The Pack than anything else? It's neat to see CofD oulling inspiration from a lot of the indie story games out there.
Between that and the flashback stuff in Thousand Years of Night, it's almost like there's a new Mummy supplement out.
>>46736211
>Anyone else more excited for Troupe Play in The Pack than anything else? It's neat to see CofD oulling inspiration from a lot of the indie story games out there.
Usually you complain about that
>>46736207
Like Throngs in Promethean or the Hive (or w/e it's called) for Beasts. Mechanical benefits of closer association with other supernaturals, beyond lower rent.
>>46736211
>Anyone else more excited for Troupe Play in The Pack than anything else?
Not really, the book looks full of good stuff.
>>46736311
Hives don't extend past Beasts, throngs Prometheans.
>>46736337
Even so, having supernatural leverage on a member of a Hive or a Throng could have repercussions on the group. Maybe the mixed packs can only take in outcasts from their splat's group structures. That's what I want to know.
>>46736396
pretty sure you can be a member of a cabal and still be a member of a pack
you don't have to devote your life to werewolfdom if you're part of a pack, you just have to be someone a werewolf likes
>>46736446
Is that dev stance or your own intuition though?
>>46736275
The only thing I've complained about is how Conditions are pretty blatantly ripped from FATE (which is totally fine, it's my favorite system for a reason) but uses Beats instead of Willpower which feels off for some reason.
>>46736446
>you don't have to devote your life to werewolfdom if you're part of a pack, you just have to be someone a werewolf likes
Well, unless you're a werewolf.
>>46736471
Did you read the Pack section in the core book? Most people in a pack don't even know they're in one.
>>46736487
The werewolves sure as hell do. Could go in a number of ways, where the other splats are treated as werewolves, wolfblooded or random members of the herd.
>>46736446
The general stance on packs/cabals/Mystery Cults seems to be "you don't know you're in one until you reach the higher ranks and/or are suoernatural yourself."
>>46734314
But.. why was such a silly lodge chosen as an example? This looks like a joke lodge to me..
>>46736515
It got the most votes. Fortunately it looks like the most fun too.
>>46736512
>Could go in a number of ways, where the other splats are treated as werewolves, wolfblooded or random members of the herd.
the book says other supernaturals are treated as wolf blooded
>>46736551
It looks like a bad early 80's action flick.
Werewolf Bikers!
>>46736571
It's probably more like Duel and Mad Max.
Werewolves are hunters. Wolves can be outrun by cars. So werewolves drive cars to hunt things.
>>46736515
>implying this isn't great material for Midnight Roads, the best blue book of all time
I actually think these guys were chosen because they're the simplest of the five. Temple of Apollo are likely heretical Helios dudes, the Eaters of the Dead are basically a small Tribe, Lodge of the Screaming Moon are tied to an Auspice and the Lodge of Garm is tied to a Tribe.
Thousand Steel Teeth have the widest utility (with no Tribe or Auspice ties) and aren't weirdos that break the mold. They're basically the example "normal" Lodge in the book from the sound of things.
>>46736621
>They're basically the example "normal" Lodge in the book from the sound of things.
Great.
So this is the book we've been looking forward to?
>>46736567
I'll be very disappointed if that chapter doesn't actually add anything to the existing mechanics.
>>46736652
I'd be surprised if it did. Werewolf has historically had rather shitty supplements.
>>46736642
>material on non-werewolf pack ates, possibly including playable spirits
>rules for Lodges, two of which immediately interest me and the rest I'm sure are good
>rules for troupe play, which can see use in every single CofD game
This book looks like a goldmine and I'm saying that as someone who dislikes Werewolf pretty intensely.
What's your beef with the Thousand Steel Teeth? Car culture and crazy bikers have been a staple of Americana since the 40s.
>>46736652
Like what?
>>46736681
Werewolf has some of the best supplements.
It has one of the worst supplements people THINK belong to werewolf but don't
(Changing breeds)
>>46736684
>This book looks like a goldmine and I'm saying that as someone who dislikes Werewolf pretty intensely.
>What's your beef with the Thousand Steel Teeth? Car culture and crazy bikers have been a staple of Americana since the 40s.
It has literally nothing to do with werewolves?
>>46736696
It also has stuff like Predators (just lists of things to fight), Blood of the Wolf (practically no mechanics at all), and Lodges: the Chosen (when the hell am I going to play a campaign set on ANTARCTICA!?).
>>46736571
These biker werewolves... would they happen to be from Mars?
>>46736729
Im pretty sure the bikker theme has always been "we follow our own rules and us against the world."
Sounds pretty fucking werewolf to me.
>>46736729
>It has literally nothing to do with werewolves?
The Wolf Must Hunt
Cars are faster than wolves and how most everyone who's running from werewolves is going to try and get away from them.
So some werewolves have filled the gap
>It also has stuff like Predators (just lists of things to fight)
You clearly haven't even looked at it, it has mechanics for making player based Claimed, explanations for every major antagonist,
>Blood of the Wolf (practically no mechanics at all),
A ton of mechanics, a lot focusing on wolf blood and werewolves
>and Lodges: the Chosen (when the hell am I going to play a campaign set on ANTARCTICA!?).
Contrary to popular belief, Chronicles of Darkness does not limit your characters to a small area, and can travel across the entire world (and beyond)
In addition, antagonists from Antarctica can also travel and become antagonists from Antarctica in (any place in the world)
>>46736696
Splat-specifc benefits for other supernaturals being in a pack. "Treat them as wolf-blooded" sounds like a default for saving space in the core book, but they could do more interesting things with that. Mages with Spirit arcana can qualify for honorary spirit rank just like a werewolf (used to be a spell, but might be the spirit 4 attainment). Beasts can already hunt with werewolves by their own base mechanics. It would just be a wasted opportunity if they added a bunch of stuff for critters and spirits and nothing for the other splats.
>>46736729
>It has nothing to do with werewolves?
"How do the Forsaken take their Sacred Hunt to the road? What do spirits of highway and road look like?"
>complaining about books being light of mechanics
>not liking weird plothooks like "there's a Lodge serving a slowly awakening horror underneath Antarctica"
Are you talking shit about the Lodge of the Lake? You could easily build an entire campaign around fighting them and their master.
>>46734744
>>46734622
>>46734636
Thanks for the responses, I think I finally understand!
>>46736868
>It would just be a wasted opportunity if they added a bunch of stuff for critters and spirits and nothing for the other splats.
can you not read?
>>46736074
>Packmates who aren’t part of the “typical pack”, including spirits, mundane wolves, and the supernatural protagonists of the other Chronicles of Darkness games.
> and the supernatural protagonists of the other Chronicles of Darkness games.
>>46736940
Follow the replies up a few posts.
The Thousand Steel Teeth are an example of two things in particular in terms of Lodge design
- What would have been a Tribe-specific Lodge in 1e.
- A refinement of the sacred hunt in terms of the manner of the hunt itself, as opposed to a refinement of the prey.
The Lodge of the Screaming Moon, by comparison, is what would have been an Auspice-specific Lodge in 1e and which refines the sacred hunt in terms of the prey.
>>46736868
Gaining honorary rank from the spirit 4 attainment is actually a really cool idea. I don't think it will be the attainment but a really cool idea.
>>46737031
Like I said, 1e has a spell that gives you the equivalent. Downside being that it's gone the moment it runs out, although there might be a legacy that gives you a permanent version.
>>46737112
There already is a legacy about that. So simple enough to port over.
>>46737160
Which one's that?
>>46737213
My apologies, the legacy I was thinking of just makes more spirit like. But does not give honorary spirit ranks. It was The Scions of God
http://www.thesubnet.com/portal/cod/mtaw/LegacySOG.html
>>46737016
I understand how so many people are viewing the TTST Lodge from a Mad Max perspective, but I also get a distinct Werewolf meets The Transporter vibe, and with a lot of crossover potential.
>>46737112
>>46737031
Even if gaining Honorary Rank requires a Spirit Spell, Thyrsus (or any other) mages would still be a powerful, if not unbalancing. addition to any pack.
As DaveB observed,
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/46168782/#46186848
" a Thyrsus (or any other mage but especially a Thyrsus) would be so useful to a Pack giving them Rites as well would turn them into Poochie.
I remember playing a mage as a one-off guest player in someone else's long-running werewolf game (it was at GenCon, the ST had just got done being a guest player in The Soul Cage), and the big climax came down... To me making a Ban against spirits as a trap the Uratha could herd the bad guy into."
>>46734910
>1e Wisdom was the domain of mind
No it wasn't. Check yer Imperial Mysteries. Wisdom is Death because it relates directly to the soul.
Mind lets you fuck with XP, though, which is just as bullshit.
>>46737511
Either way, doesn't let you raise Wisdom without XP and is irrelevant in 2e (even the way Legacies interact with the soul has changed).
>Mind lets you fuck with XP, though, which is just as bullshit.
wat
>>46737446
Well that's in regards to giving mages the werewolves magic system.
Rites are some of the ways werewolves can effect spirits. And as Dave has mentioned before there will be things that mages can do to spirits that werewolves can't, but the reverse is also true.
>>46736481
I find tying Conditions directly to the character advancement system really janky as well.
>>46737582
>reverse is also true
Ish. They may not be able to do it directly, but they can dominate a werewolf to do it for them by proxy.
>>46737622
The reverse is also true. Werewolves can force a mage to cast spells for them.
>>46737678
Werewolves can do mental domination? Or do you mean threaten them into doing it? The latter still requires mage consent, coerced as it is.
>>46737582
>>46737622
>>46737721
>>46737678
The discussion only proves my point about the benefits of a mage in a pack.
Both mages and werewolves are individually powerful, each with their own unique benefits and capabilities. However, the synergy of their diverse abilities, particularly werewolves and Thyrsus mages, make a pack comprised of both much greater than the sum of its parts.
>>46737721
Well I was say forced, but there is a gift that lets you force all the doors of some down. So that can work to.
>>46737787
I would like to agree with you.
>>46737805
I'm certain Mind will have defenses against that.
>>46737787
Agreed.
Place your bets; do you think Geist 2e will get announced at Gen Con? What about Mummy?
>>46737576
Imperial Practices of Mind let you redefine how much XP you need to raise traits, ostensibly including "zero".
Imperial Practices of Death can make you immune to Wisdom degeneration.
Archmages are intentionally bullshit, though.
>>46738009
And casting any of the imperial practices requires a story's worth of questing anyway. The mind thing will probably get flushed with the new edition, just letting you set your new mental stats to w/e value you want.
>>46738009
Archmages are in a power tier with Rank 6+ spirits and other gods and monsters well beyond most other splats, including basic mages. They are not intended as just another splat for crossover play.
Further, even most archmages only posses a few Imperial Arcana. While tremendously powerful, their individual purviews are still limited.
>>46737622
>Ish. They may not be able to do it directly, but they can dominate a werewolf to do it for them by proxy.
Not really. Rites tend to only benefit packmembers, if you're not a packmember and just attacking the werewolves, you won't get any benefit from it
That's not even counting the fact that Thyrsus are only really good against spirits and claimed, and aren't going to help much against other prey
>>46738722
>Thyrsus are only really good against spirits and claimed
>aren't going to help much against other prey
Awakened mages with significant command over all aspects of Spirit and Life, and probably other Arcana, are not really useful against anything but spirits and claimed???
WTF are you smoking?
Are you simply unfamiliar with Mage Arcana and abilities or tragically unimaginative?
For instance, most experienced Thrysus can easily shapeshift and heal as well as or with far more versatility than most werewolves (and even heal aggravated damage to themselves and werewolf pack members), control or alter *anything alive,* create their own fetishes, etc.
While I believe the sentiment is very overstated, there's a reason why "mage supremacy" is actually a discussion here and elsewhere.
Does the Mega dump have the 2e versions of Vampire: The Requiem, Werewolf etc or only the 1e?
>>46739097
>can easily shapeshift and heal as well as or with far more versatility than most werewolves
They really can't
>control or alter anything alive
Which is great, but werewolves can hunt mummies, zombies, vampires, golems and prometheans and things that were never alive in the first place
or something like the hosts, which number in the thousands
The only reason "mage supremacy" is brought up here is because there's many trolls and uninformed people here, and magefans who are just uninformed and loud
>>46739209
My god, you really do lack an imagination.
If they so choose, Thyrsus could successfully hunt anything they wanted in Mage 1e, and the Arcana have received a boost in 2e.
Why the heck would Thyrsus be unable to hunt mummies, zombies, vampires or anyone else? Might other Paths be more suited to certain prey. Sure. Does that actually limit Thrysus. Absolutely not.
Are you aware that such mages can buff themselves to ridiculous degrees and command spirit servants and powers anywhere, including the material world?
In your world, can Moros only hunt vampires and zombies, and are Acanthus only good at fighting changelings and fae?
>>46739487
You were specifically referencing the Life Arcana to
>control or alter *anything* alive
And if you're only talking about third degree masters joining packs and unbalancing things, sure, but not every mage is a third degree master and most will never be
>>46733122
>>46738083
>>46738483
Yes, but it still establishes Wisdom (or at least, mucking with Wisdom directly) as part of Death's purview, rather than Mind.
>>46739138
The Mega dump is just a mostly-complete 1e torrent, from what I can see.
>>46739731
Or it could be both.
There are a lot of things that fit into the purview of multiple Arcana, friend. Magic isn't binary.
>>46739573
>Control or altering things that are alive
>have to be a third degree master
Huh? A mage would need only 4 (or less) dots in Life, nothing else. Basically, your average experienced Thyrsus.
Why the heck would a mage need anything close to third degree mastery in order to control or alter living things?
Clarification on the Lodge rules since it came up on the OP forums: The Sacred Hunt benefit that a Lodge grants is just like a normal tribal one; ie when invoked it applies to the entire pack, not just Lodge members.
>>46740189
AWWWWW YEAH! That incentives multi-lodge packs
>>46739859
You only need 4 dots in Life to affect a car claimed by a strix?
>>46740793
Branford was just changing the argument.
>>46740793
Sure! You just use the power to just let your hands open up and show all the glorious of life to the Strix, and it'll be so spooked it'll leave you alone! Pretty sure that's how that works.
>>46740793
>Car
>Strix
Neither of these are Life-based or Alive, bud
Four dots in Death would control a Strix, though, probably, and thus the car it's claimed; Matter may end up being required, I dunno
>>46740793
No, but neither a car nor Strix are alive.
The prior Anon suggested controlling or altering things that are ALIVE requires third degree mastery. That is absurd and rules ignorant.
Living things (including the mage himself) fall under the purview of the Life Arcanum, and it hardly requires mastery to alter or control them.
Additionally, magic doesn't have to affect something directly in order to be effective in a given situation. There are many imaginative uses of both Life and Spirit that a mage could employ to combat a strix-possessed automobile (can Strix even claim cars?).
I'm convinced that the Anons who offer these ridiculous statements and arguments have never read Mage, no less the 2e spoilers, and certainly have never played Mage (or much else in the CofD) as actually designed and intended.
>>46741141
>as intended
>baww, the players are doing things we were too stupid to stop them from doing
>>46740851
Why would 4dots in death let you control Srix? That makes no sense.
>>46740793
Strix can't claim, they are not ephemeral entities.
>>46741596
Strix are literally made of shadows, so spells that control shadows control Strix (of course, they can resist with Shadow Potency and whatnot where applicable).
>>46741141
>I'm convinced that the Anons who offer these ridiculous statements and arguments have never read Mage, no less the 2e spoilers, and certainly have never played Mage (or much else in the CofD) as actually designed and intended
We have a bait problem in these threads; mostly really sad mage players waiting for the book and fucking with people until it comes out, they make their ST buy it so they can play the game without reading the rules and complain that the first edition was better. Its almost as bad as the vampire fans sitting in the corner unblinkingly glaring while they wait for their book.
Just ignore them and they will keep doing it, but you will be ignoring them so they can go fuck themselves.
>>46741691
Actually that's a fair enough point. But I'm pretty sure it would work like how life controls humans and such.
>>46741712
I don't think it's even that. For a while, we had really blatant "mage supremacy" posts that was less mage supremacy, and more idiots shit posting about how mage supremacy is bad by... Talking about how great mages are constantly, and how they're the only splat that matters, etc.
It wasn't the most well thought out plan, but I am 90% sure that most mage shitposts come from the same group.
>>46736816
Additionally, they don't "just" hunt. They fill important niches in the forsaken numbers when it comes to transportation. The areas between forsaken territory are pretty easy picking for pure and given the whole /war/ with the lot. It's easy to understand why they'd want a lodge dedicated to moving stuff(and forsaken) safely through those open areas.
>>46741936
Oh right, those "I can make an Idigam my slave" posts. Odd how those stopped once Werewolf 2e came out.
Well, got three out of four players of a Steel Teeth lodge one shot. THEY WILL RIDE THE FURY ROAD, SILVER AMD CHROME!
>>46743438
Good luck on your one-shot, dude!
>>46741141
>The prior Anon suggested controlling or altering things that are ALIVE requires third degree mastery. That is absurd and rules ignorant.
No, he was remarking upon a Thyrsus using Life Arcana to do anything to anything that's alive.
Then this shit >>46739487 went and pointed out that Thyrsus aren't limited to Life/Spirit
At which point the argument encompasses all arcana that possibly might be used and so third degree masters
>>46741621
They actually can, it's just a special system for them
>>46743480
I can already imagine that scene with dirt bikers dropping grenades onto the war rig as they drive through a canyon but with Wolves
>>46741621
They have a whole suite of Possession powers, including permanent "Synthesis" which is basically Claiming of a different name. It's not Claiming but it may as well be.
>>46743536
>>46743710
Synthesis while really similar to claiming does actually have some differences. A strix can turns corpses/revenants/living creatures into vampires while increasing the strength of existing vampires by sacrificing apart of itself. It basically imbue its vampiric nature onto others.
>>46743514
Any mage with a proficiency in Life, which includes all Thyrsus mages, can affect things that are actually alive. That is the defined purview of the Arcanum of Life. By Adept level in Life and sometimes earlier, they can control and alter living things. It certainly does not require mastery, particularly with the 2e revisions, and never requires mastery in three Arcana.
Additionally, all mages have access to all the Arcana. It would be quite unusual for experienced mage to have no proficiency in any non-Ruling Arcana, and would likely mean they are VERY proficient (and deadly) in their Ruling Arcana, regardless of Path.
In any event, the original Anon's claim that started this tangent was that Thyrsus mages are only useful to werewolves when fighting spirits and claimed. This is astonishingly stupid and represents a demonstrated ignorance of the Arcana and Mage setting and rules. All experienced mages, again, irrespective of Path, are more than capable of dealing with a wide variety of circumstances The fact that Thyrsus might be particularly suited to fighting spirits and claimed in no way means that they are useless or vulnerable in other situations. If anyone believes that a mage proficient in both Life and Spirit is some sort of one-trick pony, really needs to read Mage all over again.
>>46745114
Can Strix "claim" or possess complex inanimate objects like cars, as suggested by the earlier Anon?
>>46745114
I think my favourite part of this is how much it calls into question the humanity of vampires.
You could've been dead for centuries but suddenly a Strix decides to make you into a vampire and you're back. No memories of any afterlife, no heavenly vistas; just an empty blackness between then and now.
Which is worse to contemplate? That you aren't the person who died? Or that you are?
>>46745183
No only corpus and people.
>>46745187
Thats kinda deep
>>46734314
WHAT A LOVELY DAY!
So scary thought.
A Horror gets claimed by a Idigam which then later gets under goes Synthesis with a Strix.
So in the old world, was a Wu T'Ian functionally identical to an Amenti using Balance?
And did they reveal what happened with the visions when the Capacocha were dead as an end-game thing? Like, were they actually from the gods, or just their tormented consciousness?
>>46745187
The cool thing about that is you could make a Pet Cemetery type of deal with a Strix.
>>46745879
Idigam can't claim things
>>46745879
I actually threw a claimed slasher at my group recently, it was a good time.
>>46747458
>claimed slasher
tell us more.
>>46747662
Basically, the slasher was more or less a nobody. They never ended up looking too heavily into his backround, but the long and short was that he just sorta turned after hunting vampires and realizing he really LIKED cutting things up, even if they weren't the target of the hunt. Along comes a spirit, a particularly powerful spirit of joy and peace which thought it could claim him, and make him better. Werewolves had failed to deal with him and were only striking out at the murder spirits that flocked to him by the dozen, but they never managed to take him out. spirit takes him over and begins the process of claiming, before realizing he aint just some mook idiot, he was a scourge and as they became more and more meshed together, the spirit had the choice of admitting its own hubris and detaching or taking from the resonance he was creating. Naturally, it took option B. and a murder/joy maggath claimed was born. He went on to kills tons of people, mostly those suffering heartbreak as the freshly claimed felt it could wipe away their sadness in that way.
>>46747832
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U9FVc972ao
Is it plausible for the Sabbat to cause widespread short-term power outages in a major city, or is the Ivory Tower just Too Global Conspiracy to allow something so crass?
I want a howling pack of Cainite rapists to assail my players' havens and domains, but I need to know how crazy it can get.
So, uh, not having played innocents, if I needed to get a rough handle on the 'possible' attribute levels in the physical sense of a child and teenager in the WOD system respectively, where would I go?
Or is it just like 1 dot for kids, 2 dots for ten year olds, 3 dots for a 15 year old, and then maximum at 18 or something?
>>46747364
I don't *think* I wrote a no-Claiming limit in the idigam rules. Idigam certainly get Manifestations as normal.
>>46748951
Innocents designed itself to use the full 1-5 scale, since it was for campaigns of all kids, and then gave adults 8-again vs. kids, so in theory a 5 Strength kid was just "strong for a kid."
So you'd want to go "literally anywhere else," since Innocents intentionally warped the game's benchmarks (and did so badly, since 8-again isn't even that big of a difference).
I don't really see a kid having 2 dots in strength unless they're genetic freaks, but 3 dex might be possible or those crazy-dedicated gymnasts, and 3/4 as a maximum for teenagers seems reasonable.
>>46748988
Could their various shaping powers be used to speed up Claiming?
>>46749570
Sure, you could use a custom version of Forge Claimed where the idigam scoops the soul out of the victim then shunts *itself* straight into the empty soul-socket.
>>46749613
>>46749613
Do you think Pack is coming this week?
>>46749795
I genuinely don't know. From Stew doing blog posts, I'd *guess* he must be done with it and it be off to Paradox, but I don't know the particulars of where it is right now and may be wrong.
I'd really *like* it to come out this week. Same with Mage 2e.
>>46749814
>I'd really *like* it to come out this week. Same with Mage 2e.
Yeah me too. But hard to figger how long PAradox deals with this stuff.
Both look cool either way.
So, what would you guys do with this place in your games:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnston_Atoll
So.. What would this be in CofD?
I'm guessing an ochema of something nasty.
Any other ideas?
>>46749871
>poisoned bird sanctuary
Source of evil poison birds.
I thought a fun story would involve Ireland as the home of one of the last Pangaeans, Snake. Destroyed by St Patrick. Could tie it in with wwViking with the omphalos and corpse being found
>>46749905
ghost or ghost mage
any spirit/ghost/angel/demon/goetic/truefae/ochema/infernodemon/abyssal
>>46749922
St Patrick is a few hundred years before the Viking raids on Ireland started, but if you want to make it a hunt about the remains, that'd be seriously cool.
>>46749983
yes, dealing with after effect, way past st patricks time, maybe serpent host trying to lure werewolves to help rez their dadd
>>46750003
Well, a chronicle name feels obvious then: (No) snakes on Ireland.
So how does rank work in nWoD 2e?
>>46750240
in regards to what?
it's a power stat for ephemerals and other monsters
>>46750248
As in, how their rank relates to others.
>>46750269
Who are we talking about here? Ephemerals?
>>46750281
Sure. Spirits in general.
>>46750269
You gotta be more specific
it doesn't increase at the same speed/level as player splats, it's more expoentnail than linear
>>46750302
It's not in relation to their specific trait limits, essence maximums or spending limits, but how a creature with a higher spirit rank is able to express its superiority over a creature with a lower one.
>>46750293
They grow more powerful. But they scale differently than normal supers.
How do you mean "relates to others"?
>>46750329
Can they do aggravated damage to their lessers, do they get dice pool bonuses when affecting them in a supernatural manner, can they suffer less damage from them, etc.
>>46750314
With spirits, power is power. A spirit that can beat you to death is going to be afforded respect by a spirit who's gonna get beaten to death.
Exceptions are made for magath and antitheses. Presence of an organized spirit court can lead to rank gaining artificial power or having more power than usual.
Rank 1 - Animals
Rank 2 - Children
Rank 3 - Mortal PCs
Rank 4 - Supernatural PCs
Rank 5 - Final Bosses/Supernatural PC Superior
>>46750344
>The hierarchical nature of spirits also plays a part — Rank isn’t a social convention for them but a fundamental part of their natures. Spirits of two Ranks or more higher than an opponent (a Rank 5 spirit attacking a Rank 3 spirit, for example) count as their opponent’s bane when using unarmed attacks, claws, or teeth.
It's all in one section.
>>46750917
Everything seems to check out here. Hmm, yes.
Hopefully, this Wednesday shall be a glorious Wednesday.
>>46749871
Man, the US had a fucking vendetta against unspoiled tropical islands, didn't it?
>>46751342
>Hopefully, this Wednesday shall be a glorious Wednesday.
>>46751554
Yes, they even basically built a new one.
>>46751566
I hope we get any kind of new material.
And now that I've wished that on the monkey's paw, we're getting a new shirt and iPhone cover this week!
>>46752919
Pretty sure we wouldn't be lucky enough to get two weeks in a row of shirts again.
If we don't get Pack or Mage2 we'll probably get.something shitty like Curse of the Blue Nile or v20 Ghouls.
Setting aside wishes and fishes, I'm pondering what would be good Mysteries for a small town; things that aren't "solved" by unraveling them but represent persistent conflicts.
My current thought is a potent harvest spirit with a matriarchal cult that came to power in 1916, after most of the town's men were killed in the Great War, and the townsfolk decided they never wanted to lose so many relatives again. I'm still unsure what to do with them, though.
>>46753067
>things Mages can't solve
Butthurt werewolf fag detected
>>46753067
>small town
How did we all get addicted to oxycontin?
>>46753075
He said not solved by figuring them out. Things that require some action.
>>46753096
Berserk version is much better
>>46753117
Exactly. I want something that keeps the area interesting. If there's a "villain" to find and defeat or a problem easily set to rights, the adventure ends after. I want something that keeps the characters in the area.
>>46753256
Time to see how it started, Fate to see how to finish it.
>>46753075
Werewolves weren't brought up in the original post.
Spirits are a mage problem as much as it's a werewolf problem.
>>46753067
Perhaps the spirit is kill off husband to drive the widows in it's Cult.
Another question that should be asked Is where are the werewolves in all of this.
Maybe the cult is using the dead as fertiliser for its crops.
>>46753357
>Spirits are a mage problem as much as it's a werewolf problem
>Mages mooching in on other splat's niches again
>>46752970
Curse of the Blue Nile's a Mummy KS stretch goal, so if it does release, it's not gonna be available to everyone for a while.
>>46753377
Vampires are about dealing with an eternity of unlife, are mummies mooching off the vampires niches?
>>46753420
No, because each only has one niche
Mages steamroll over them all
>>46753302
Only really works if there's something to finish, doesn't it? I'm looking for a plot hook generator, I guess is what I'm saying. Like how Los Angeles routinely has people become possessed by archetypes and such.
>>46753357
I appreciate the thought but that's actually sort of what I'm trying to avoid; I want to keep this cult from seeming outright evil, even if I do make it a touch uncomfortable in some ways; they may act a little unethically, but not really straying into "PURGE THEM ALL!" territory.
Not for Mages, at least.
As far as werewolves go, fair question, but one I'd consider later rather than sooner.
>>46753377
Mage in a group of vampires
>"Strix? We've been fighting those bitches for millenniums"
>Waves hand, all the strix die
>"You guys are such fags"
>Flies away
Why is mage so awesome
>>46753420
>Vampires are about dealing with an eternity of unlife, are mummies mooching off the vampires niches?
Yes.
>>46753302
>Fate to see how to finish it.
>Implying that Fate ever gives clear instructions
If you're getting a point A to point B breakdown for what to do in the future, that's not reading the strands of Fate, that's just the God-Machine trying to con you out of $7.50.
>>46753458
More likely
>mage waves his hand
>strix move, one possesses him
>new magevampire is born
>>46753432
Just because they deal with the same topic does not mean that one is stealing it from the other. For example both changelings and beast deal with dreams but go about it differently.
>>46753473
And mage, mage also deals in dreams
>>46753357
>Another question that should be asked Is where are the werewolves in all of this.
In another gameline, being completely unrelated to things, just like the Hunters.
>>46753468
Does a Strix get access to Supernal Magic if they possess a Mage? I think a Strix can force a Werewolf to shift but can't make them use Gifts.
>>46753504
The sidebar says they do not.
>>46753504
Not with regular possession, but with Synthesis it depends on the ST
>>46753504
Strix can merge with supernatural beings, including Mages and Werewolves, to create unholy abominations. They're already breaking the rules, so I'm pretty sure the answer is whatever serves the plot best.
>>46753433
Well using the dead to fertilize the crops can still work, its actually effective for space and resources.
As for making the cult not evil I like that, how about preventing loved ones from dying? Maybe it stems from a deal made between the spirit and the cult at its foundation.
You can even us the threat that without the spirits magical crops and prevention of disease and sickness could kill the small town.
>>46753459
But they both deal with immortal in very different ways.
Ones deals with the struggle of maintaining ones humanity despite the price they must pay nightly.
While the other deals with a loss of control, a cycle of repetition, and fading memories and identity.
>>46753458
Unless that mage can do aggravated damage (which most can't) its just as fucked as the vampires.
>>46753632
>While the other deals with a loss of control, a cycle of repetition, and fading memories and identity.
Yeah the fog of eternity
>>46753486
Yes, but they all do so in different ways.
A Mage with Spirit is not going to handle something the same way a Werewolf would.
Nor will a Beast, Changeling, and Mage handle a situation in the Oneiros the same way.
They've all got different views of things, and how to approach these things.
>>46753592
>>46753578
This just makes me want to throw a Strix-Demon at my players at some point. As in, a Strix that's used Synthesis to merge with a God-Machine Demon.
>>46753486
So can vampires, my point still stands.
>>46753665
Thst has been removed in 2E, just saying.
>>46753592
Mummypire?
>>46753684
Mages can do it better
>>46753675
>As in, a Strix that's used Synthesis to merge with a God-Machine Demon.
Hmm, would you be using an Integrator or Saboteur.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDhPvrYY0kY
>>46753632
>its actually effective for space and resources.
Sort of. It requires a ton of prep-work, since you need to remove fillings, any medical implants, etc.
I like the idea of this spirit allowing for unusually long lives. There might be an odd number of centenarians in the town; a handful of great-great or even great-great-great grandmothers about.
The idea that the very land itself is bountiful in strange and marvelous life-giving ways has a potent appeal. I can see plenty of potential villains moving to take it for their own, cryptids that might be attracted to it, etc.
There's a piece of me that wants to have an omphalos stone at the heart of all this, but that feels... Cheap almost. But just the same, a piece of Harvest's heart would make a tremendous central relic for a cult, and a powerful source of power for the ruling spirit.
>>46753659
Umm. Yeah. They can. They can upgrade any damaging spell to do agg.
>>46753721
That one is really up to the storyteller. Sense mummies are immune to possession because they are just so full of sekhem.
But then again it calls out that a mummy possessed just becomes a corpse, so thst might mean it kicks the sekhem out or forces the mummy to abandon that body and need to get a new one.
>>46753746
Also this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoBgTfJT9CM
>>46753778
These aren't so much quotes as they are musical screeches.
>>46753778
>>46753746
Man, I had forgotten how shit this game turned out
>>46753772
Last i checked they need 4 dots in an arcane to do that. You average mage does not have 4 dots in an arcane.
Even then the strix takes the damage as bashing damage. So hardly a wave of a hand.
>>46753773
I take you cannot have Pandoran-Striges either.
>>46753807
Well the person who made the video probably didn't realize that at the time.
>>46753746
>>46753778
Thanks for the additional inspiration. I'm gonna go stat this guy up.
>>46753761
with my idea, the spirit of the being had someone eat the omphalos (which by then was worn down to the size of a human thumb)
it possessed him (more like urging) and gave him some twisted powers until he can find the corpse, when he'll become one with it
>>46753808
And yet, the idea of Columbia as an alternate timeline in Demon is pretty awesome.
Rapture is what happens when some Mage decides "Hey, fuck the normies" and builds an undersea city far from where anyone can see.
>>46753810
That's in 2e. In 1e any spell that does damage can be upgraded to do Agg. There are some slight drawbacks, but it can be done.
>>46753808
I know, It's shame that it could have been better, but ah well.
>>46753761
Well if the town has been relaying on the cult for it medical need then the people wouldn't have fillings of medical implants. Sense the cult/spirit has been around longer then most of the more recent medical improvements.
How about and artifact from the primal wilds? Something that simple enhances the land around it. Those boosting the work of the harvest spirit.
http://theonyxpath.com/get-your-motor-running/
Thousand Steel Teeth!
About time to bring back this beautiful motherfucker.
Mage battle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_VpkXd1TKA
>>46753920
That reminds me of a Demon I played once.
>>46753920
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPydRKuhuEk
What are the CofD version of Flaws and how many of them does Doof Warrior have? Also how would you spec him as a Cahalith?
>>46753920
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv13gl0a-FA
>"DEJA VU!"
>>46753811
Fuck if I know sounds boss as fuck though.
>>46753857
No thats wrong, unless your working with the abyss you need at least 5 dot in an arcane.
>>46753898
A Primal Wild artifact would be neat. Though this all raises the question: Just what sort of spirit is this? Is it from the Shadow? Is it one of the Bound?
>>46754074
>No thats wrong, unless your working with the abyss you need at least 5 dot in an arcane.
There is that "unless".
With the Abyss, any spell that does damage can be upgraded to doing Aggravated damage.
>>46754083
I was just implying that the two were working in tandem. But making it a Bound is just as well.
>>46753857
Here is how you do aggravated damage earlier then 5 dot. By conspiring with the abyss.
