EDH/Commander General
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Jank Tribal Edition
Useful Links:
http://www.mtgcommander.net
>Official Site: Contains deck building rules and the current ban list.
http://www.tappedout.net
>Deck List Site: You can search for decks that other people have made. Authors often have comments that explain their deck’s strategy and card choices.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh
>Another resource for commander discussion; they have an entire forum dedicated to discussing decks. People often make primers, which go into detail about how they built and play their deck.
http://www.edhrec.com/
>Statistically see what everyone else puts in their commander decks based on what is posted to the internet.
http://manabasecrafter.com/
>Find out what lands you can add to your deck, sorted by category, based on a chosen Commander’s color identity.
CARD SEARCHING
http://gatherer.com
>Official search site. Current for all sets but has a terrible UI.
http://www.magiccards.info
>Unofficial, but has GOAT search interface.
Previous thread: >>46512317
What tribes to you love, even if they suck?
>>46528306
(Pic related, I am working on monowhite soldiers without the Darien karma urbog combo and am looking at the jank alternatives)
I'm trying to finish my Thromok deck after some anon asked me when it's going to stop being a work in progress.
I'm trying to use mana dorks and creatures with ETBs to keep artifacts and other annoying stuff under control. I think I need good sac outlets in R/G, and I don't know of any great token producers in R, since I've never built a deck with it.
>>46528452
Most of the good token makers in red are goblin tribal, and goblins go well with being sacrificed, so you may want to consider that. Green is full of good token makers, so you shouldn't have too many issues with this, but green token makers tend to be less efficient than white in terms of number of creatures vs mana needed, so keep that in mind.
>>46528576
Do you have any suggestions of cheapmonetarilytoken producers?
>>46528596
Get good irl
>>46528452
I run Ulasht and can help you out
Chancellor of the Forge
Kazuul
Cloudstone Curio
Rally the Horde
Phyrexian Altar
Goblin Bombardment
Skullclamp
Shivan Harvest
admittedly red doesn't make fuckloads of tokens, you just use to to go to value town and splash all the good removal like Shatterstorm, Ruination, Gorilla Shaman, Viashino Heretic, Fissure, and Aftershock.
>>46528596
Here are some cheap ones. Not all of these are great, but these are all a buck or less, and none of them are terrible.
>>46528697
That doesn't even make sense.
>>46528452
Goblin bombardment is one of the best sac outlets ever
RG have a million good token producers
deranged hermit, dragon fodder, siege gang commander, avenger of zendikar, wort the Raidmother (gets better if you have a lot of token making instants and sorceries like sa prolong symbiosis and second harvest)
Recently made some changes to my Azami deck, it's more tempo-y now
If any of you have any thoughts, cards you think might be missing or what you think I don't need to run, that would be wonderful
No mana crypt, mana drain, or force of will, those could obviously make the deck better but my budget still lets me buy decently expensive cards like Snapcaster
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/time-crimes/
>>46528697
Most of those are expensive, but these are some good suggestions. I have a bunch of artifact removal, some land destruction, but it's not the focus of the deck.
>>46528732
I already run some of these, Sylvan Offering and Night Soil are pretty good.
>>46528736
Wort is a very interesting choice, I'll try to get one of them.
Fitting with the theme of the thread, who are the best commanders for Human Tribal? The new Sigarda is up there along with Daxos, but what else works?
>>46528732
Fresh meat is such a ridiculous card
Honestly hard to resolve if you're running it on a token combo deck
Make 5 tokens, sac two to cast spell that makes 8 more, sac 9 to cast spell that makes 12
Sac all those, how much is my fresh meat again lol?
>>46529108
Karona
>>46529117
>tfw two foil Koranas I picked up back when she was new
>>46529108
I think shu yun is good because he is a human with a solid ability and red white blue are good colors for humans I think
>>46529165
>2 foil Karonas around the time Scourge came out
Wow, how much did they cost you then? $2 each?
>>46528640
Context, motherfucker, what is it? This is responding to an idiot who runs a 31-lands deck. At that point a basic swamp is better than whole lot of cards.
>>46529219
Something like that.
>>46529268
please don't bring that troll back up, I thought we were past this.
>>46529394
He will live on, like his brother, remach guy
So I'm currently trying to finish up my Meren deck. This is what I've been running: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/meren-current-1/
Anyone have any suggestions for upgrades or interesting includes/cuts?
>>46529268
that doesn't change the fact that the argument that a swamp is better than a dark ritual because "dark ritual makes only 2 mana for a phase" while a swamp makes 1 mana for many turns to come
>>46529762
That argument is valid in a lot of cases, for a lot of decks. Context matters, you mong.
>>46529268
were you not in the last thread?
>>46529762
You're missing a clause at the end of this post
>>46529108
It depends. With humans, you can go with a swarm strategy, counter strategy or a sacrifice strategy and ideally all 3, so you generally want to be in Junk, so that means Daghatar the Adamant is a good pick.
>>46528306
My friend and I were discussing tribes the other day. I was saying I think it would be a cool idea if Wizards made a set that had legendaries for a bunch of tribes we don't have legends for yet. The only thing I could think of for story would be some powerful planeswalker abducting legends from random planes, and maybe even the past or future, for a fighting tournament.
Also anyone who reads this, whats a good coat of arms-esque card in naya colors?
>>46529963
Beast master Ascension
Shared animosity
>>46529987
Yeah I was thinking shared animosity because tokens.
>>46528306
Shapeshifter/changeling tribal with all kinds of artifacts and enchantments that care about creature types
>tfw no new decks you want to build
>tfw current decks are all done
>Crabs are my favorite animal.
>No Crab Legend.
>Not even any good crab creatures.
>>46530922
Now you just gotta find time to play them all
>>46530984
No need to be socrabbyabout it.
>>46530989
I play all the time. It just feels weird not having any decks in progress.
>>46530984
>hedron crab isn't good
>>46530984
Crabs killed my dad.
>>46529963
We need more noggles. That is the only tribe I want more of.
>>46531146
I gave your dad crabs
>>46531294
Aunt Sheila?!?!
>>46531356
No, your other aunt Sheila.
>>46531580
That's impossible, she's been dead for years unless..
Unless maybe crazy old Uncle Marvin wasn't lying about that book he found, unless he actually did unlock the secrets of death! This changes everything, I need to warn the others before it's too l
Tribes I want a legend for would be Homarid, Kavu, and Myr.
>>46531637
See, this kind of autistic shit is exactly why so many of your relatives made you think you they were dead.
>>46529108
Both OG Teysa and Saffi work well with Human tribal, both because of Angel of Glory's Rise. It's a plus that both are humans themselves.
The main combo is with Fiend Hunter of course.
Teysa is a sac outlet to get it going and has access to Death Cultist, which is both a win con and a human. There is also the classic Darkest Hour combo available as well.
Saffi is just a combo monster who can replace Fiend Hunter while the combo is firing. However, you will need a sac outlet, which is more difficult in GW. Blasting Station is the main goto outlet, but there is the new monowhite Fallen Angel that can be tutored with TaN, which is a plus.
I have played both, and I think Saffi is far more resilient commander, however Teysa has more general wincons available.
So how do you name your decks, /tg/? Any themes or do you just pick something that sounds cool?
>>46532128
I name them in subtly racist ways.
No seriously, I just name them after the Commander. I thought that's what everyone did.
>>46532206
My Azami deck
My captain sisay deck
No need for kitschy names
>>46532279
There's always that faggot who'll name his decks "the gay pride parade" or "divide by zero" or some such shit he thinks is clever to describe his 5-colors superfriend or Izzet combo deck. But that guy's an autist. Deck names aren't supposed to be jokes, they're supposed to be informative.
So, I'm looking to get into Commander as, according to people at my local Magic Club, it's the easiest format to get into. I was planning on grabbing a prebuilt Commander deck or two this weekend and I wanted to ask which ones would be a good idea to grab. I'd like to run a Blue/Black deck of some kind, if possible.
Hey does any one have any ideas on how to make a No fun Naya deck, Basically I want a deck that never wins but makes everyone else hate the game. I think naya is a good choice of colors for it too. any suggested cards?
>>46532374
Draft is the easiest format to get into
But edh is second place
of the blue black edh precons oloro is good but his deck isn't great, jeleva is very powerful and the deck is pretty decent
The sultai deck is better I think but it's a bajillion dollars because it's from commander 2011, all those decks are hard to find
>>46532374
>it's the easiest format to get into
Debatable. Depends on how casual your local meta is.
>which ones would be a good idea to grab
Whichever you think looks fun, they're generally all solid.
>I'd like to run a Blue/Black deck of some kind, if possible.
The only two blue/black precons I can think of in recent years are Oloro and Jelava. Of those, Oloro is easily the best one. But I'd ask why you want to play blue/black. If you're just interested in graveyard synergies, good creature removal and lots of card advantage, Meren (green/black) is also a perfect fit.
>>46532459
I found that most of the time, the Jelava precon does absolutely nothing. Jelava is only the better deck if you rebuild it from the ground up into a storm combo deck or something, and someone who's new to Magic defnitely isn't going to be able to do that.
>>46532386
I don't know if that's really possible in those colors
>>46532459
>>46532462
Well, they're pretty casual and have drafts every Tuesday.
And honestly, I just like Blue/Black for the Knowledge/Power fluff.
I'll keep an eye out for Oloro and Jelava then.
>>46532386
Spirit of the labyrinth
Impending disaster
Gaddock TEEG
Stranglehold
Aven Mindcensor
Torpor orb
Linvala
Stony silence
Suppression field
Rest in peace
>>46532515
It must be some kind of weird bait. When you think of no-fun-allowed decks, you usually think Esper or Sultai. Maybe Daretti. But for the most part, never Naya.
>>46532515
I think it is, you have things like Vornaclex, bearer of the heavens + boros charm, windborn and seed born muse, suppression feild, null rod, Kataki wars rage, that griffin that nulls etbs, rest in piece, a lot of wraths and land distractions
>>46532534
>hatebears is no-fun-allowed
I'm really trying to understand and accept your opinion but it's hard, your opinion is so shit.
>>46532561
I can assure you its not bait. I really want to know and build this deck.
>>46532607
Why Naya?
>>46532582
Oh so you're just using it for the colors
I would just run a whole bunch of wipes/exile effects, MLD, and artifact destruction. Maybe run Marath and just give counters to opponents' creatures/use the X damage ability
It's a weird request for that color combo, anon, it really is
>>46532643
I am a weird guy but yeah thats what I was thinking
>>46532638
Need something that looks normal but competitive and I have a lot of naya colored cards already so I am trying to do it on the cheap
>>46532530
Precon decks are kinda overrated in my opinion
When you get even the least bit serious about building it out right with good cards, you'll find that you probably won't be keeping more than 5 or so cards from the precon
It's only cheaper if you really are just going to play precons vs precons, otherwise I think not one of the precon decks is actually worth the retail price in terms of the value of the playable cards that are in it
You can build a much better edh deck for still pretty cheap ($50-$100) then spending $40 on a precon that won't even let you compete with anybody playing a real deck
However the precon commanders themselves range from decent to top tier and if you really like a specific precon commander it's more worth it to buy that deck
>>46532591
I love playing with hatebears, I just assumed that's what the person meant by "no fun allowed" in naya
All strats are fun for me so I'm out of my element trying to give people advice on how to be not fun
>>46532582
Red has some 'no fun' cards. Lots of land hate, too.
War's Toll
Price of Glory
Stranglehold
Burning Earth, Manabarbs
Jokulhaups
Just to name a few
>>46532128
If there's something obvious with the general then maybe something along those lines, but i usually just stick with the general's name.
>>46532767
Vicious Shadows to fuck up people who love their card draw players. I've killed a Kruphix player using a sac engine with Vicious Shadows before
Oooh! Also, Stalking Vengeance. Fucking amazing card. Especially if you want to combo it with Marath making bigass Elementals
Big Red control is fun as fuck
How does one do Wx token decks in EDH?
Is there seriously any deck outside of mono blue prison that makes EDH less fun than Eldrazi?
>Everyone and their dog has an eldrazi deck
>Easy to cheese out early in the game leading to annihilator and ingest triggers before you have much of a board state
>Newlamog and new Koz never stop being efficient to cast, the former's abilities being on cast/attack
>Eldrazi players always act surprised and extremely offended when targeted. Aka "I built X so I should win every game" syndrome
>Deck speed and consistency are off the charts because muh colorless mana
I have a deck with Tariel that focuses around killing creatures and bringing them back on your side with better abilities/power etc. I call it Mister Steal Yo Girl.
>>46533072
I'll take Bribery for $200 Alex
>>46532879
Basically every deck wants card draw and ramp
If you're a token deck you want token makers
Then you want stuff that scales with the number of creatures you control or put into play like craterhoof behemoth and aura shards
>>46533111
Well memed my friend!!
Going to PAX East and just readying my deck for the inevitable shitstorm of broken decks. Last time i was there there were slivers, flickering, exiling...god, so much bullshit.
>>46533111
But Tariel is female.
>>46533198
:p At some point in any game unless everyone focuses on me, everyone will give at least one creature to me. After that people tend to start attacking me much more.
>>46533219
>slivers
>flickering
>exiling
>broken
>mfw
>>46533231
You don't know that for sure, do you? ( ͡- ͜ʖ ͡-)
>>46533072
Artifact hate is plentiful across the naya colors. Unless you're dimir, mono-blue, or mono-black, you have easy access to efficient resources that will fucking wreck their day.
Colorless decks are artifact dependent, and artifact hate is plentiful, efficient, and effective.
A supplemental strategy: tear them a new asshole with nonbasic land hate.
>>46533258
Well..Not broken. Mainly just annoying as hell to deal with.
>>46533219
Well, what are you running?
>always play EDH with my friends
>go to my local LGS one day
>some people are playing EDH
>Animar, Darcum, two other top tier commanders
>they have dual lands and other expensive cards
>all of them try to combo out
These decks look so efficient they're boring to play with and against. I have no problem with combo, I have 2 decks that are based on them, but holy shit, the only deck that interacted with the others was Darcum because he dropped a turn 2 Winter Orb.
>>46533382
I've got Tariel as my commander, some odd cost kill spells for the Eldrazi that I KNOW will be there, Irelia the Warleader for some heavy damage fast, and there's also Iona and Avacyn in the deck.
>>46533428
There are also assorted Ajanis in there, as well as Lilianas.
>>46533427
yeah i really dislike those kinds of decks. Combo arms races are fun to some degree, but it just homogenizes the format to the degree that I dont have much fun anymore.
Then again I can't get any of the cards necessary to make the decks so I don't have much room to talk.
>>46533505
I second this. It's the worst feeling to be assembling a massive combo and then get dropped with 40 commander damage to the face by Scion of the Ur-Dragon...
>>46533427
What exactly made them boring? That they were too good?
What is your interpretation of "interaction"?
Are you saying they didn't run enough removal and counterspells?
>>46533613
I think he meant that they worked too well and had a response to everything thrown at them. Everyone hates a deck there's no flaw in.
>>46533613
What made them too boring is that they had almost no ways to interact with the board, instead focusing entirely only on comboing out as fast as possible, as if they were goldfishing.
I'm always a little wary around people who run original duals and stupid expensive cards in their decks, since they're probably one of those competitive versions you see on the internet.I'm not saying my decks are cheap, but I can't afford everything I'd like for them. Also, EDH is still supposed to be a casual format, so I keep goofier decks around in case someone wants to play a funnier game.
>>46533629
The reason I ask is I'm trying to pinpoint the general consensus on how and why the arms race can hurt the meta
All in all my meta has become more fun as our decks have evolved and gotten better but there are still times where the salt flows and I think it has to do with decks that don't line up well with the more common decks in the meta, for instance creatureless combo decks can make decks with only kill spells and no counterspells salty, it feels like no matter what they draw they aren't really gonna be able to do anything about the combo player
Also getting straight up priced out is salt inducing, I don't like losing to mana crypt openers that take over the game
I'm putting together a Kresh deck with a focus on putting +1/+1 counters on things
I have cards like Corpsejack Menace, Hardened Scales, and Doubling Season that amplify the effects, but I need some good cards in Jund colors that place counters themselves, or all my creatures, creatures as they ETB, etc (things like Bloodspore Thrinax)
Any suggestions?
>>46533723
I will admit that my deck does have a rather nasty combo with Tariel, Avacyn and Irelia. I steal everyone's shit and then kill them with it. Then they wonder why they didn't kill me first.
>>46533808
Check out the green Graft and Evolve creatures.
Also, Mazirek and Jugan might be up you ally.
>>46532368
Pretty much this, I cringe when I see autistic shit like that one faggot who posts his awful Nahiri deck like every thread and thinks the name is clever.
>>46532757
I'm in a different boat, all strats for me are fun EXCEPT the strats that define this format: battlecruiser Magic, Gxx ramping into fatties into card advantage into more fatties.
I'd rather play against 37 stax decks (in a row) than sit at another table with Zegana, Damia and Meren masturbating over their board states and recurring everything forever until you can no longer see the table under all those fucking cards.
>>46534013
Can't you just boardwipe? Not sure what the commanders do.
>>46533992
Entertain me, what's the name?
>>46533072
Don't blame the eldrazis, blame the fast mana. The RC is convinced fast mana is never a problem, it's what you cast with it that causes issues. They're sort of slow like that.
>>46533289
>colorless decks caring about non basic land decks
>implying 95% of colorless decks aren't new players with Wastes
Good one
>>46534013
So your problem is people who durdle too long in first place before closing out the game officially
Reasonable
Games can drag on sometimes
>>46533072
I mean there's that one deck where you just shit out like 10 lands a turn. Don't remember what it's called.
>>46532128
I only have one of my edh decks named, and its called Planet Fitnessyou can probably guess who the commander is
>>46534056
Of course I can, and of course I do. These decks however are good at keeping the card advantage going, and recurring their threats. So you have to board wipe, and then either attack the graveyards, or the mana. And when you do that they get pissed and think you're a no-fun-allowed faggot. These players just want to put all their cards on the table, having 20+ permanents is the only thing that gets their dick hard. And that's pretty much the core playstyle that defines this format.
>>46534101
I have no idea who is it?
>>46534126
Wait you don't like putting your deck on the battlefield?
It's quite gratifying
>>46534101
What colors?
Also, anyone have any experience with MTGO?
>>46534126
Well, and then there's always that one asshole who plays Living Death after that. The thing is, they're always gonna get butthurt when you dismantle their entire deck with one card.
>>46534230
Newzuri?
>>46534057
Sword and Boardwipes, it's not the worst thing ever but he would post it like 20 times a day.
>>46534170
I love just flopping my deck onto the table for everyone to see.
>>46534170
I like it once in a while, not when it's the only thing anyone apparently ever cares about doing in the format. And I'd say my main gripe about these decks I'm bitching about is how uninteractive they are. They don't care about beating what their opponents are doing, they're only trying to do something bigger. And they view most forms of interaction as mean, unfair or against muh spirit of EDH. They complain when I wrath but then they lose to Craterhoof because they don't run wraths of their own and they come bitch about it on /tg/.
>>46534264
Yes. Its the only deck I gave a cringe worthy name to. Only have 3 edh decks because my group consists of one lazy faggot who only wants to daretti or netdeck shit he's seen online but not have any of the actual cards, a powergaming jackoff, and a guy who thinks all his decks are good because he spends serious cash but still can't perform good combos
>>46534264
Newzuri is a trap, and I wouldn't recommend him to anyone. If he's allowed to stay on the table, he will win the game. If people are smart, they let the command tax add up while you son quietly to yourself as you play another useless creature.
>>46534422
>you son quietly to yourself
>"yeah SON, gonna drop this morph"
>>46529108
I would say Daxos + stoneforge package + counters + draw + tempo creatures.
This is 1v1 though
>I built OGDaxos tempo yesterday so I know what I'm talking about
gonna play a 3dh today so I'll know if it's any good
>>46533427
>he didn't git gud
YOU ARE LIKE A LITTLE BABY
>>46534422
>Daretti is on the battlefield with newzuri
>better target the newzuri player!
>daretti wins because everyone ignores him because newzuri is a big threat
Sounds exactly like my group
>proxy the gitgud frog tonight
>butthurt everywhere
>dredging out the ass
>land suicide cunt-ery
The frog power is real.
>mrw I win the game off of Rise of the Dark Realms tonight in a 5 man pod
>>46534659
But who was your general?
>>46534614
Every time I play my gitgud deck it always decks itself, I just pray I draw jarad and sewer nemesis in time
>>46534688
Erebos.
This is actually my first build of the God of the Dead and I think I've finally found my deck.
>>46534703
Why don't you have any tutors?
>>46534723
What generals were you against? That's generally the thing that indicates how good rise will be.
>>46534703
Kozilek
>>46534300
I see what you meme'd there.
>>46534736
Because the deck dumps itself so easily, once my dread return arrives the combo should be a lot smoother
>>46534771I run one too
>>46534703
You can get around decking yourself by dredging when you have 0 cards in library.
>I just pray I draw jarad and sewer nemesis in time
Just use a Necrotic Ooze combo.
>>46534746
Tasigur
Sedris
Grand Arbiter Augustin
New Ezuri
>>46535020
You can't dredge unless you have enough cards in library to satisfy the number, trust me I tried. I'll look into ooze though.
>>46535068
You're right, I can't believe that was always the ruling and I never knew. Shows how much I know about Dredge I guess.
>Everyone's faces at the table when I kill someone turn four with Doran + Slagwurm Armor + Priests of Norn
>>46535117
It's alright, the only reason I knew is because I bought the izzet vs golgari duel deck from way back
i remember i last left off at edh trying to make a non lockdown weenie derevi and put in a ton of effects that benefit from twiddling. That was a hanful of years ago, i think shes banned now too. Anything new thats good worth looking at since then?
>>46535131
Ha. I don't think I could even be mad, but I sure would try.
>>46535171
Derevi isn't banned. But she's fucking annoying as hell
>>46535117
>ruling
Nah, it's not really a ruling, it's literally how dredge is worded. You must place N cards from your deck into your library (where N is the dredge number, of course) in order to dredge. If you can't do that (due to lack of cards or any other possible reason), you can't dredge.
If you read the reminder text really closely, it's pretty clear.Not giving you two a hard time, mostly just spelling it out for other, less observant, anons.
>>46535239
>semantics
whatever, you know what I meant
>>46535223
I liked twiddling, the natural evasion and commander tax evasion was icing on the cake
>>46535265
Hey anon, you're a cool dude who can read cards and shit. Like I said, I'm just clarifying for all the fagtrons who can't do those things.
>professional writer
>semantic nitpicking is required
>totally did know what you meant
>sorry
>>46534268
to be fair it is informative, if not too informative of how the deck runs.
>>46534571
are you me? I used to run a daretti and a newzuri and whenever i ran newzuri, niggers would FREAK OUT while when i ran daretti it was "oh anon's running mono red artifacts again, lets let him durdle"
>>46535285
>commander tax evasion
And this is part of the problem. Any counter or removal you use feels useless, because whoever is playing Derevi can just say "whoopsie boopsie, I'll just dump her back out for 4"
The command zone interactions were a fucking terrible idea
what get rich quick cards can i play other than kodama variations? also, any easy elf generators?
>>46535505
For 6 mana in white green you can have infinite elves in the form of Midnight Guard with Presence of Gond on it.
>>46535475
Removing the tuck rule was the 2nd mistake.
>>46535806
>fixing an unintended mistake was a mistake
>>46535958
It may have existed only because of an oversight but it brought more good than bad in the format.
>>46535505
Incoming flood of elves that allow you to play an additional land and a combo that forces other players to pull land back to their hand every time they use it. In essence it could be a green/red mill deck
>>46535505
>>46535505
>>46535505
>>46535505
>>46535505
Damn post limit
>>46534614
The best deckbuilder in my group has already finished his, I have played against it 3 times. The entire playgroup hates if already.
>our faces when he played a pernicious deed on turn 3 and for the rest of the game we were at a stalemate while he grinded out.
Eventually we all conceded so the game would just fucking end, his deck just slowly gained an unbeatable advantage.
>>46528452
here's my list. I have to keep a Ti-83 in my edh bag to keep up with the tokens.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/thromok-lord-of-noms/
Need some help /edhg/. Got a problem with god decks. Mainly with purphoros and phenax. What's some good exile spot removal or enchantment exile?
>>46534614
That guy in pour group has already asked me what infused ton animate everyone's lands in myPharikadeck.
It's over bros. It was nice knowing you.
>>46536477
Cabal Therapy.
Target Self.
Name Kokusho The Evening Star.
Dredge Skeletons (or anyone 1 cost creature)
Cabal Therapy
Name Yosei, The Morning Star
Recurring Nightmare
Sac Dredge
Recurring Nightmare back to hand
Kokusho to play, drain 5 life from every player. Gain as much life that was drained this way.
Recurring Nightmare
Sac Kokusho
Recurring Nightmare back to hand
Yosei to play, target player skips next untap step. Tap 5 permanents player owns.
Having 65 life on turn 3 is a way to never get asked to play in a "casual 10 man game" again.
>Their Faces When I waited for all the blue mana to be tapped out
>>46536844
But anon, Recurring Nightmare is baned, desu.
>>46532386
True dickery can only really be achieved by WUB.
Enjoy.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/oloro-the-lazy-dick/
>>46536917
That moment when you didn't read "10 man CASUAL game" as in play wtf ever you want.
Some of them were rocking power 9, some were using proxies... Casual
>>46536844
What does that have to do with the post you're responding to? Sounds like you weren't even playing EDH. Are you in the wrong thread?
>>46528306
I have an ally tribal deck. My friends hate it. If anything more than 2 creatures hit my board they start to panic and wipe the field.
Feels nice tho, especially when I living death or rise from the dark realms.
Or Genesis wave for about 12.
>>46537078
Daxos The Returned was my commander for the game. -_- just showing how easy it is to ruin a CASUAL game with the people who do nothing but deckbuild at home.
I usually run a sliver deck for EDH using Hivelord or Overlord as commander.
Go trim your neck beard.
>>46537254
What the fuck does this have anything to do with what you are replying to.
>>46536809
Help please?
>>46537266
What the fuck do your frivolous posts have to do with it? Be sure not to cut yourself on all those edges there junior
Convince me on why I should run him.And if you can't, I'll probably build a Ghave deck and be a faggot because I love this card too much to not use it.
>>46537394
two color manabase is easier than 3
also deckbuilding is somewhat easier because you have cardpool 2/3 the size
ghave and mazirek are very comparable, i'd say ghave is more versatile but play whatever you want
>>46537283
are the gods the commanders?
or in the 99?
either way my favorite ways to deal with gods:
Unravel the Aether
Deglamer
Return to Dust
Oblation
Mangara of Corondor
Chaos Warp
Capsize type effects are pretty good against Purphoros because you can respond to a token spell then deal with the tokens later with no damage dealt
>>46537283
oh yeah and cant forget all is dust
very good card in general but in a god-heavy meta it shines
>>46528732
>All in alphabetical order except Wolfbriar Elemental
You've triggered my trap card!
I bought 4 Strionic Resonators, 4 Ice Age Swords to Plowshares, and 4 Basalt Monoliths from my local store for 6 dollars total. They had a half off sale on certain singles and the Resonators were definitely mispriced. Also bought 3 Living Deaths for a dollar each.
What are some of your good buys/trades for EDH staples?
>It's a "The players in the pod run bad decks but they're still salty about losing" episode
>>46533072
>people unironically think Eldrazi generals are good
What the fuck?
Serious question here guys. What's a pod?
>>46537138
>Or Genesis wave for about 12.
Oh god.
The only way you could make it better is Riku or Flameshadow conjuring.
>>46537394
>Ghave deck
Do it. Ghave is best commander. He has so much ways to build him, and all of them are extremely fun in actual game.
>>46536844
>the koko puffs
Shit thread
Shit format
Shit board
Shit people
>>46539197
shit post
>>46534013
I have one deck like that (Zegana with merfolk and Krakens) and it can be nice to engage in some battle cruiser magic from time to time, though I have to agree that it's not for everyone and can get boring after a few games. Zegana is probably my least-played deck right now because of it.
>>46534191
My one friend has a no-basics Scion of the Ur-Dragon and thinks that I should pull Wave of Vitriol rather than him replace some of the shittier non-basics with basic lands.
My other friend was in a game where I dropped it and he lost maybe 3 non-basic lands (which we immediately replaced with basics) and went off on a tangent about how all of my decks run MLD now and they aren't fun to play against and that he's not gonna buy cards to catch up with me and maybe he'd even quit the game altogether if I don't cut MLD out of my decks.
It was quite entertaining.
>>46539234
Scion of the Ur-Dragon. I already don't like him. But still if he doesn't have responses to stuff like that he shouldn't be crying about it. When someone pulls lifegain on me, I drop some 8/8s and then Irelia the Warleader and I'm killing them usually faster than they can gain life.
>>46538893
>RoE Kozilek
>Bad
>>46537394
I'm honestly not sure why I still have him in my Meren deck.
Every time I've gotten him out, he's died stupid fast and I have so many better things that are either fat as hell right from the get-go, or have ETB or self-Sacrifice effects.
Also it doesn't work with your sacrifices, and I sacrifice so much more shit than my opponents.
>>46539577
He does work with your Sacs...
>>46535285
>I liked twiddling
Ew
>>46535285
>commander tax evasion was icing on the cake
You are cancer
Anyone else have That Guy in their playgroup?
The guy that gets insanely upset when others strike up an alliance to take out his Rule of Law/GAAIV/Ghostly Prison pillowfort?
He also gets mad when you just attack him, with anything.
Fuck I hate playing with That Guy.
>>46539577
>Also it doesn't work with your sacrifices
Yes he does. If you sac as much as you say he'd turn your remaining board into a fucking freight train
>>46539577
>Also it doesn't work with your sacrifices, and I sacrifice so much more shit than my opponents.
nigga you blind
>>46539672
I'm lucky enough not to. I have yet to actually play at an LGS, I just play with friends who don't get overly salty
>>46533219
For whatever reason I figured there would be a lot of casual play there...guess I'm packing Scion
>>46536218
>alright so who here wanted to play a deck that revolves around your commander, like the format was made for?
>are you running tutors out the ass? Oh? You're Gruul colors? That's a shame. Sorry you never get to see your commander again or have fun.
It was an unintended mistake that was unintended because the format's supposed to be casual, and it's supposed to be about building around one card.
Fuck off with your "no, the format is what I want it to be" bullshit. House rule it if you really want.
>>46529649
Deadbridge Chant, definitely.
>>46539785
>autist nexus in the form of a nerd shit convention
>expecting casual play
>>46529649
And Deathreap Ritual.
>>46539234
>tfw people complain about this in my meta too
>tfw my scion deck runs 26 basic lands
>tfw I'm never colorfucked
I don't get why people feel the need to run all nonbasics. Maybe I'm missing out on the glory of reliquary tower or some shit, but every time someone has a magus of the moon or something equally stupid out, I'm just on the side with the monocolor players, jerking it.
Having mostly basics has saved me more than it hurt me.
>>46539252
Why the Scion hate, brother?
>>46531018
Do a theme deck. I brewed a Kresh LOTR theme deck a while back, tons of flavor and it even played well.
>>46540041
>LOTR theme
That sounds interesting, don't suppose you've got a list?
>>46539234
I built my friend's Scion manabase. It's so easy to do it with basics. Load it up with Forests and Mountains, then use land auras to fix the colors.
>>46539672
>not Young Peezy
>>46540062
Long gone when I deleted Cockatrice
>>46539252
The Scion player grumbled but he's already planning on swapping out some lands since I hit him with the wave two games in a row.
It was the Daghatar player that threw a shitfit after losing 4 or 5 nonbasic lands because the basics left him *slightly* mana screwed.
He also throws fits about Lightning Greaves, Sol Ring, counter spells, and blue in general.
So I've had a dumb shower thought earlier: A deck that, like a typical Norin deck, does a whole bunch of shit when creatures enter the battlefield, but in mardu colors, with payoffs being not just Purphoros and Impact Tremors, but also the soul sisters, the blood artists for sacrificing stuff, a bunch of teysa style cards etc. Anyone know a deck that does this? I brainstormed a few inclusions in here, wish alesha as a commander for the colors that can sometimes bring back dead shit.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/swefswergedsgz/
>>46540858
>Deck title of champions
You have a lot of humans and you're in Mardu, you could shoe in the Angel of Glory's Rise combo from ISD standard
>>46540939
holy shit that is a brilliant idea
>>46529113
Tokens don't go into the graveyard, though, so.. zero beast tokens?
>>46541028
but they do. they cease to exist once they do, but they do go to the raveyard. same with being shuffled into the library for cards like warp world or the great aurora. and fresh meat is one of the few neato effects that doesn't specifically say nontoken creature like caller of the claw does.
What's a fun way to run Shattergang Brothers?
>>46539041
a multiplayer game
>>46541464
use ugin's nexus
>>46539234
How can you run a no-basics scion deck???
you are ignoring a lot of the best ramp possible and you are utterly fucked vs wave or blood moon
I run 9 basics and use almost all of them every game that grinds on
>>46541739
Hermit Druid combo.
>>46541776
that is shit tier in a multiplayer commander game
>>46540163
>land auras
Like what? What of those is actually useful in edh?
I've got decks already that i've built for fun or because they seem like they'd be strong. But it feels like I need one WAAC deck because my entire playgroup has one themselves.
Help me piss people off /edh/. Hit me with some really annoying commanders.
>>46542441
land destruction narset
play every Armageddon, raiza's purification, blood moon type effect
R8 me m80s
>>46539871
>Gruul colors can't tutor their commander back up
The problem may be that you're dumb. To be fair though, I perfectly understand your point of view, and your arguments would be perfectly valid in the context in which EDH was born. However, the game has changed. Magic got since filled with legendary creatures that are their own fuel, engine and finisher, and ramping has never been an issue. This results in plenty of decks being able to win through only recasting their commander through multiple removal spells, maybe backed up by one or two other synergy pieces (of any nature, legendary creatures now combo with everything). Then there's flat-out commander tax evasion like our dear sweet shitbird Derevi. This isn't the EDH of olden days when you need X, Y and Z synergy pieces to even make your Commander work, and having it removed was a real setback. Now, there are plenty of commanders on which removal is just completely inefficient. Tucking was the solution. They took that solution away. Games now often revolve around players continually recasting their powerhouse commander, and players are incentivized to run more bombs and less answers because if you can't answer the opponents' commander, might as well drop more bombs. It's shit.
The removal of tuck has changed the format in plenty of subtle and unpleasant ways.
>>46539980
Do you run fetches or a lot of monogreen ramp like Cultivate?
I don't want my deck skewing heavily toward green, so but I want to reliably cast Mortify or my commander when it is important.
I'm not running any triple color cost cards either, but like, I need lands that tap for multiple colors.
I could see myself running 10 basics in a 5 color deck, but more than that? I don't know how I'd do it. I don't even run colorless land.
>>46542511
That's a problem with individual commanders, not tuck.
Tuck hurts the people who run bad decks the most.
>>46542495
>Rakka Mar choice is because Vorthos
Why not one of the Bladewing brothers since they are the legendary ones from Shiv?
>>46542583
not really
how am I meant to get rid of narset now outside of dedicating every turn for the rest of the game on the narset player
>>46542587
Tried em both in an earlier build. Tarox was way too damn weak. Rorix was just one dimensional like Zirilian. Rakka is not only a flavor win, but she also makes tokens as sac fodder or chump blockers.
Plus, why wouldn't I have the sexy shaman lady leading my army of dragons?
>>46542629
Ban Narset.
If a commander is busted, ban it. Don't put in a rule that shits on Narset and the guy playing Anthousa.
>>46542583
I don't know, I guess it's a matter of personal experience, but I personally don't waste tuck spells on shitty commanders, especially not when there's something like a Derevi or a Prossh at the table.
There are plenty of commanders I know I can get rid of through regular removal spells. My opponents aren't going to be excited to recast their Aurelia for 8 or their Zurgo for 9. The Wanderer player, however? Couldn't give less of a shit what the commander tax is at. So guess which one is getting Chaos Warped when I have a Chaos Warp in hand?
If anything, tuck made games more fair, and more fun for casual, weaker decks.
>>46542647
Why not Bladewing the Risen?
>>46542629
Sounds like you need to gitgud
>>46542698
>Let's ban all commanders that are problematic when the opponent can recast them forever.
That'd be a long list, friend.
Hey there /tg/, I wanted to know what you guys thought of my deck
If you'd like, I also have a tappedout link
Thanks in advance for any comments
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-wonderful-game-of-life/
>>46542760
I forgot to rotate the picture, sorry
>>46542778
Now I'm confused and just won't post it anymore, sorry about that
>>46542778
you tried...
get a necropotence, improve landbase
>>46542795
I wouldn't worry about it. I have literally never gotten any feedback whatsoever from these threads, they're just circlejerks for tripfags.
>>46542707
Sure, if you are all at the table, but if someone has a Hallowed Burial or Terminus in their deck for when they have to deal with an abusive deck, they aren't gonna avoid casting it just because they in a casual setting.
I ran Hinder, I ran Terminus, I ran Chaos Warp, I ran all kinds of shit to deal with the busted commanders. But for every game where I shat on a dickwad playing one of those decks, there were four or five games where I tucked someone's synergistic, fun, casual commander away. I'd be in situations where I need to get rid of something like a Rosheen Meanderer and now, that players deck, full of X-spells just doesn't feel worth playing.
You could say, don't build around the commander, removal is a thing. But that's the reason we have the command zone in the first place.
>>46542797
The only lands I have on my list to get are Marsh Flats and Hallowed Fountain, anything else, anon?
And I've been debating Necropotence for a little while, still not sure though
>>46542809
>>46542707
Tuck spells no longer affect commanders, they can choose to put it in the command zone instead of in the library.
>>46542809
>But that's the reason we have the command zone in the first place.
Tell that to the worthless pieces of shit that run Oloro because HURR LIFE IN ESPER
>>46542819
the only reason to not get necropotence is if your playgroup cries it is broken too much
best card in black
all of those guildgate or enter tapped gain a life lands are garbage
>>46542721
Well, there you go.
And I understand that even ones that don't break Commander Tax can be frustrating, like a Zegana deck when they manage to ramp a fuckton.
But we need to address the problem of these strategies and commanders directly, rather than rely on an exception that fucks all commanders.
>>46532128
White/Blue fliers and legendary tribal = The Wild Blue Yonder
Almost creatureless Narset (Aurelia the Warleader is the only other creature) = Nearly Narset
Big Black Goodstuff with Ob Nixilis = Ob Nixilis, Throb Dixilis
Xenagod stompy stuff = Divine Revel
Purphoros tokens and etb effects = Hephaestus? Gesundheit!
Daxos the Returned enchantment control = An Enchanted Evening with Daxos
RED
>>46542809
>You could say, don't build around the commander, removal is a thing
I could say that if I thought of everything only in the most ridiculous extremes. I don't. I instead choose to say "Build around your commander but make sure your deck can operate without it"
I really feel like there's no excuse for running, say, a Voltron deck with Isamaru as the commander and literal only creature. If that deck gets blown up by a Terminus, then it's just getting what it was asking for.
>>46542830
I know. We're arguing if that was a good decision or a bad decision.
>>46542831
Have they printed a fun Esper General yet? Sydri seems reasonably fun.
>>46542862
but you cant run enchanted evening in Daxos the Returned :^)
>>46542840
All right, I can see the necropotence now
As for the life lands, I greatly, greatly enjoy them. They act as a source of lifegain for the several sources that use it. I also don't have anything in mind which would replace them
>>46542885
>I know. We're arguing if that was a good decision or a bad decision.
Good, because only two colors have access to tuck effects.
>>46542852
Addressing this problem would mean a much longer banlist, a lower health total, and a 1v1 setting. And oh look, we're playing French now.
I have nothing against French, I actually quite like it, but I also enjoy EDH and I wish this format would get its head out of its own ass and realize that there can be a middle-ground between fostering a fun environment and actually building a balanced and reasonable set of rules.
>>46542495
aside from the fact you're clearly autistic, your commander choices are decent
>>46542886
Many groups allow hybrid mana cards in monocolor decks, which is what the design of hybrid is supposed to support.
>>46542885
I tried Sydri, felt kinda lackluster. Esper really isn't for fun stuff, it's either busted af or stomped really easily like Dakkon or Sydri
>>46542901
Two things. That's false, and it's also one of Sheldon's arguments which makes it dumb and false.
>>46542629
dude just run rule of law
>>46542938
Which colors have tuck effects outside blue and white?
>>46542918
Daxos isn't monocolored
>>46542852
>banning "problematic" commanders
every busted commander has counterplay, it's better for the diversity of the format if people just play cards that interact with these "OP" decks
>>46542967
Try to use the power of thought to understand my point.
>>46542918
Can I run beseech the queen in my Ulamog deck then?
>>46542995
Oh I understand your point, I'm just needlessly picking apart what you said for laughs.
>>46543013
If your group lets you. That kind of hybrid mana is not normally accepted, tho.
>>46542901
Only one color has access to counter spells, what now?
>>46542961
What is Chaos Warp, one of the best tuck spells in the format. Also, all colors can do it from the graveyard if your opponents put their commander there, which did happen, and I've lost at least two games to Derevi since the change specifically due to that no longer being an option.
>>46542865Why doesn't she have haste?
>>46543077
So a single non-blue or white example? Wow you sure showed me!
>>46543069
Counterspells don't deprive you of your commander numbnuts.
>>46543084
Because the white one already had haste, lol
>>46543069
W mana tithe
U counterspell
B dash hopes
R red elemental blast
G avoid fate
>>46542918
>Many groups allow hybrid mana cards in monocolor decks
Never seen this ever in any of the three stores in town or the various playgroups I've seen.
>which is what the design of hybrid is supposed to support
You're such a lying faggot it's incredible. EDH was barely even a thing back when hybrid mana was invented, let around when Commander itself was created.
You're probably one of those retards that doesn't understand summoning sickness and thinks rules should fit how they think the game should be played.
>>46543104
>>46543069
Also
ANUS: Null Brooch
>>46543084
It's a very good question and it upsets me every time I think about it. Red has plenty of haste enablers however, so I get by.
>>46543096
Yes, I sure did show you. Because all red decks ran Chaos Warp, and it's one of the spells I've most commonly seen used to tuck a commander after the obvious Hinder and Spell Crumple. It sat near the top of most "Best tuck spells in EDH" lists.
You don't need fifty tuck spells to tuck a commander.
>>46543121
>You're such a lying faggot it's incredible. EDH was barely even a thing back when hybrid mana was invented, let around when Commander itself was created.
You're a fucking moron. MaRo created hybrid cards with the intention that they were "either color", not "both colors". This is what I mean by their design supports their use in monocolored decks.
tl;dr- go fuck yourself you pompous cunt.
reminder darksteel mutation exists to deal with a lot of commanders
>>46543146
Don't forget song of the dryads
>>46543146
Also Lignify and Nevermore Song of the Dryads. They're good, I run them whenever possible, but
>not instants
>enchantment, when most of the commanders on the must-tuck list have green as one of their colors
It's pretty good but rarely sufficient. It's a very small consolation, like saying "I took away most of your tools but you can still hammer this nail with a screwdriver"
>>46543123
Welp, now I know for sure I want a Rakdos 1.0 deck.
>>46543146
Small tangent here, at first I thought the new aura/equipment tutor in SoI was just a worse Steelshaper's Gift, but someone pointed out it can tutor your equipments OR Darksteel Mutation, which makes me want to try it. Has anyone put it in their white decks? How has it performed? Is the 1W mana cost worth the additional versatility?
>>46542961
Red has Chaos Warp, Green has Deglamer, which worked on the gods, who, besides the obvious Derevi, were in my experience the most frequently tucked commanders, because nobody runs that many ways to remove indestructible enchantments.
>>46543251
>Green has Deglamer, which worked on the gods
I knew I was forgetting something. Also, Unravel the Aether. I used these spells on the local Purphoros and Keranos so often back when it was still possible.
Is Jori En a good commander for beginners?
>>46542715
He's red black. I don't have a copy. I wanted the list to be mono red.
>>46542915
Rude.
>>46543397
Should be fine. I'd probably focus the deck on creatures, instants and sorceries that give you free secondary casts. Or you could do Wizard/Merfolk tribal. She has options.
>>46542870
Casual decks built around a commander can operate, they just aren't fun to play.
That Mayael for example. That is a deck usually built heavily around a commander, but it is also a general that needs to be killed pretty quickly. Fortunately, that is usually fairly easy.
However, if you tuck her, all that player gets to do is cast expensive fatties. Sure, that can be fun, but with tuck, you remove any chance of doing the fun part of a Mayael deck. I've seen people cast Mayo the Anime for 9 mana, that's how relentless they are.
You get it?
>>46542910
I would be completely fine if they banned 15 generals next ban update. Like, it doesn't matter to me. I know every general I play is 100% fair.
Multiplayer doesn't make a general unfair.
>>46543450
Oh. Well then, I guess Rakka, yea.
looks like a mean card to use with another creature that forces the opponent to block
>>46542977
EDH doesn't have a problem with diversity. It is a casual format, people run all kinds of trash legends.
QUESTION: Does EDHg playtests or plays (even if against AI) on Forge? Anyone willing to play some games on the new pvp they implemented some updates ago?
>>46543586
Have you had that deck for a long time? I find that what you describe is how I often feel about a new deck in the first couple months, where I just want to play it at full power and kind of do the same thing every game, but after a while that grows old and it becomes more interesting to play against heavier disruption. I have a Grenzo deck with very few tutors, it really only works well with Grenzo, and tucking it was a complete blowout. But after playing that deck for 30+ games, when I got it tucked, I actually kind of liked it. It was time to roll up my sleeves, change up my strategy and actually work for my win.
I know it's just a matter of opinions in the end. But I can goldfish at home as much as I like, I play against other players to be faced with situations I may not have been prepared to handle, I play because there's a risk of things going wrong and me losing that game.
>>46543586
In my experience Mayael decks have alternate ways to cheat in fatties, because she can be removed and isn't even that efficient herself.
>>46542511
counterpoint: there's still innate color advantage with tuck.
White Blue and Red are the only colors with effective tuck spells.
Black has indefinitely more effective and efficient tutoring for their commander than any other color.
Blue and Green have more tuck protection by a mile.
So basically Blue has the advantage. Do you really want blue to have another advantage?
Derevi is MORE powerful with tuck, you cuck
And poor boros.
What happens when you're playing Boros Voltron, trying to have a good time, and Tommy Tuck over there hinders your Gisela?
>you chaos warp his melek to get that fucker back for what he did to you
Well now you fucked up, you see Tommy doesn't give a hoot about his commander, and tommy's only running one permanent in his spellslinger deck. Hello Isochron Scepter, how are you today, infinite turns?
>>46542512
Run green land ramp and artifact ramp as your only ramp in your 1-2 mana slots. Ta-Da now you only need green and you'll just magically stumble upon the other colors of the rainbow.
>>46543183
Honestly I dislike Nevermore. Enchanting a commander and making him useless is one thing, but you can exile it, kill, or simply remove the enchantment, and board wipes do you a favor. Nevermore is just fucked up though.
In a recent game someone nevermore'd khaalia, so I helped a brother out and removed it since I had green. Ended up winning because khaalia killed the other two at the table.
>>46544034
>counterpoint: there's still innate color advantage with tuck.
There's innate color advantage with everything in MtG.
>Derevi is MORE powerful with tuck, you cuck
Derevi may be able to run more tuck spells than most decks, but he also gets hurt more by tuck.
>And poor boros.
Don't pretend the be championing the poor Boros players, you're arguing with one right now. I don't give a fuck if you hinder my Aurelia, I probably wasn't going to recast her for 8 or 10 mana anyway. I will take the ability to tuck an opponent's Derevi at that cost any day of the week.
>>46542707
this is a really bad argument because obviously if there's ALWAYS a wanderer or a prossh in the game, then sure, every other player can expect a lot of political advantages they wouldnt normally have
however the man's point was that tuck destroys a lot of fair decks and is only NECESSARY for balance against the very most broken commanders with uncounterable repeatable value like Prossh, Wanderer, and Derevi
so any game without one of those is gonna result in tuck cards being insanely strong, as they were before the tuck change
>>46544156
>helping a Kaalia player
>>46544196
>however the man's point was that tuck destroys a lot of fair decks
Fair decks get fucked up by a lot of things. Are wraths bad for the format because they destroy fair decks? Is MLD bad because it destroys the poor ramp players?
You play disruption to, guess what, disrupt decks. Even better if it destroys them. If they can't recover from a tuck spell, then they had a shitty deck and deserved to lose. Not to mention, against "fair" decks, a tuck spell is only slightly better than a removal spell. At worst it's worth a couple removal spells. Because fair decks won't have 10+ mana on turn 4. Against unfair decks, it can actually fucking begin to disrupt their strategy, something regular removal has a really hard time doing.
>>46544063
What part of I don't want to skew my colors did you not get?
>>46541908
>ugin's nexus
The ramp ones in Enchantress decks. People tend to pay less attention to them than they do straight ramp.
>>46543814
I never had a Mayo deck. My friend did though.
>>46543948
Sure, but casuals like having their commander. They anticipate having them.
>>46544266
Being a dick isn't doing your argument any favors. If they are fair, fuck them, their deck sucks.
And it isn't a couple of removal spells, it is like ten, because casual games run long and people love to cast their commander.
>>46544266
Wraths don't actually destroy fair decks the way MLD or Tuck does.
Even if they got rid of your whole board, hand and graveyard, you can still do SOMETHING, which is cast your commander.
Sure, casting a 10 mana 4/5 vanilla isn't fun, but it sure as shit better than the alternative.
>>46544514
>And it isn't a couple of removal spells, it is like ten, because casual games run long and people love to cast their commander.
The way you play Magic is so far removed from anything reasonable I will deem your personal experience completely irrelevant in this discussion about format balance. If you're in a meta so incredibly casual you get to cast your commander ten times, then I'll give you the same advice you idiots always like to hand out when we try to discuss balance changes: just houserule it.
>>46544560
If literally all you're left with is casting a 10 mana vanilla 4/5, it sounds to me like you lost the game. Do you think you'll stage a comeback from that position in any remotely reasonable scenario?
How many lands would be a good amount to run with The Gitrog Monster? I'm still building my deck but I currently have 40 lands, which might be too much but I feel like I'd rather have more than less with how he works.
>>46544579
Well, I specifically only play cheap commanders, like CMC 2 and 3 for that reason. I've definitely cast Lyzolda as a 11 mana shock before.
I do want you to know that casual MTG and casual EDH do exist and that tuck rule change is for them. It was a wonky exception whose only purpose in the format was to bandaid broken commanders.
>>46544592
It is a psychological matter. And it happens. Politics get involved, you luck out or something.
And it isn't really about winning, it is about playing.
>>46544733
I feel like 40 is a good place to be. Higher land counts become very valuable in decks like these, especially if you run things like Loam, cycling lands, Titania, Scapeshift.
>>46544747
I am well aware that casual EDH exists, I often play casual EDH. But the nice thing is, we don't have to guess at what the typical power level of a casual table is. We have a perfect metric for that. Precons. That's as weak as EDH decks go. Sure, you COULD build weaker decks, but in the interest of being reasonable and discussing format balance in scenarios that do not involve players intentionally gimping them by player weaker-than-precon lists, we start from precons. And games with 4 precons at the same table do not get to the point you describe.
Real casual EDH, as in EDH with decks that may not be the best but that at least function on the same level as a precon, can handle tuck. Hell, it even benefits from tuck. And tuck just gets more and more beneficial as you go higher in power level.
>>46544831
>gimping them by player weaker
gimping themselves by playing weaker*
I should not post while I'm on the phone.
>>46544192
My fellow Boros bro, do you run one or two utility beaters for when your commander gets too expensive? Personally I've found that Hero of Bladehold and Brimaz are quite good at holding down the fort when Momma Aurelia is trapped in the Command Zone.
>>46544831
Precons are honestly not very well balanced and are all over the place in power level. The casual EDH players I've interacted with have way worse decks than precons, to be honest.
And it is important to note that players who play casually will play a shitty deck differently than a serious player playing a shitty deck.
And precons can't be go too hot wild on theme because they have to support three different commanders, they don't get fucked by tuck for that reason.
And regardless, this isn't a power level concern, obviously tuck is fair. It isn't about losing because you don't have a commander, it is about getting to the point where you fee like you aren't playing because you don't have a commander.
>>46544860
Hero of Bladehold and Brimaz are among my favorites, in good part because they work so well with Skullclamp. I also run the obvious Sun Titan and Stonehewer Giant. Then, a handful of dragons; which dragons I use will change over time. Steel Hellkite is a staple but for the rest, I adapt to the changes in my meta. It may sound weird but I'm running Stormbreath Dragon right now, because my meta is currently dominated by Sharuum and Derevi and I've found pro-white to be pretty valuable. If I could figure out where my Hellkite Tyrant went, I'd throw it back in as well.
I sometimes cast Aurelia for 8 but if she dies after that, I tend to send her to the graveyard. I don't have a ton of ways to reanimate her but I know I'm probably not casting her for 10 so it's worth it just to keep my opponents guessing.
>>46544949
>it is about getting to the point where you fee like you aren't playing because you don't have a commander.
And that's one of the main reasons the tuck rule was changed, and the main thing I disagree with. Ruling in order to prevent those "feelbad" moments only works if you think there's an objective way to measure "fun" and that playing commanders over and over again ticks up that "fun meter".
I for one find it a lot worse to feel like we're no longer thinking because we just play our commanders over and over again, than it is to feel like I'm no longer in the game because I let myself get pushed into a situation where my commander is tucked and I have literally nothing else left to do.
>>46544831
>casual edh benefits from tuck
This is just wrong, 100%
Casual edh can tolerate tuck if it doesn't come up every game, that's the best case scenario
Normally tuck ruins every single game In which it occurs
>>46545034
>sit down for a casual game
>Deglamer a Purphoros
>all opponents get mad, start crying, flip the table and storm out after saying I ruined the game
Stay tuned for more things that never happened.
>>46544983
Are you crazy? What if they reanimate her?
>>46545020
I'll admit, as the guy you are arguing with, whenever either I or someone else just casts their commander over and over again, I grimace a bit, because I think "Really? Is this all this deck can do?".
And if I cast my commander and it was blown up, I usually try to do other stuff.
But this is EDH, a game about commanders. It isn't fun to cast your commander over and over again, but it is fun to have your commander in play. I can't fault people for valuing that in this format. Personally, that is why most of my commanders aren't removal bait or "must answer" cards. They do something small and fun and cute.
>>46545072
Casual players don't play with assholes. They are willing to avoid playing with a guy who plays Purphoros.
Or they houserule against the card after a few games.
>>46545136
>Are you crazy? What if they reanimate her?
I can handle an opponent reanimating my Aurelia. If they get a board large enough to beat me with my own Aurelia, then I probably wasn't in a great position to win anyway. Plus, them reanimating her means I can Homeward Path her back under my control.
>>46545072
if they really had a casual purphoros deck (??), then yeah, you ruined that game
Every game that somebody gets there build around kamigawa legend hindered is a ruined game
The tuck rule is simply stupid, it makes no fucking sense whatsoever. The idea that you need it for balance in a competitive meta is stupid because prossh and Derevi should just be banned rather than having bad rules to accommodate a bad Banlist
and there's absolutely no reason a commander should be getting tucked in casual edh
What does /tg/ think of an orzhov enchantment-creature tribal deck with Athreos at the helm?
Its basically the Daxos precon, made slightly less bad. Just wondering what the hivemind thinks.
>>46545174
It's not prossh or Derevi so it's shit
Shit players like you are the reason they changed the tuck rules
I hate you
>>46545174
it's fine, if you want to make it good you're gonna need to drop some serious cash
>>46545174
Pillowfort
I honestly would suggest esper, at least you could defend your enchants with counterspells from something like Merciless Eviction which would exile all the enchants
>>46545193
if prossh bothers you that much then play night of soul's betrayal
>>46545152
If they houserule things then let them houserule tuck away. Then make official rules that benefit the type of players who do not have the luxury of houseruling away everything that they lose to.I also take issue with putting all casual players in the same bag. I think of myself as somewhat of a casual player but that doesn't mean I play intentionally bad decks and cry when my stuff gets removed. I've had people at my table who had only been playing Magic for a couple months, and when their commander got tucked, they sighed and just went "I'll beat you with those other cards instead". Feeling this strong sense of entitlement that you must have your commander available at all times isn't a characteristic of a casual player, it has more to do with just not liking disruption of any kind.
>>46545223
In case you didn't notice, it's that >>46545169
idiot false flagging by shitposting while pretending to be pro-tuck.
>>46545174
Sounds fun. There are some fun enchantment creatures in those colors. Plus, you get constellation triggers off of anthems.
>>46545160
Fair. I think I still only have one Homeward Path. I don't even know what deck it is in.
>>46545169
Hey, you get me.
>>46545258
ok, thanks?
>>46545265
>>46545160
Also, Eldrazi Displacer, which is becoming something of a staple. Reanimating a white opponent's commander is no longer a particularly safe move, unless you know for sure they don't run flicker effects or homeward path.
>>46545279
You were responding as though you believed his comment was genuine, so I cleared that up.
>>46545234
I am a casual player. I wouldn't say I deliberately make bad decks, but I do avoid elements that I personally dislike and feel that others in my playgroup will dislike.
And you seem to genuinely be missing the difference between general disruption and tucking a commander psychologically when it comes to playing commander.
Theoretically, Commander doesn't need a rule where if your commander would die or get exiled, it goes back to the command zone. You'd still have it at the beginning of the game, but if someone gets rid of it, you have the rest of your deck to play with. But it has that rule, why? Because that's the point of commander.
It isn't a problem with disruption. People counter, kill, wrath, warp world, sacrifice or whatever. People might get salty, because hey, salty players exist all over. But they are way less justified when someone does that, because after all, you can always just cast it again.
>>46545380
You can also cast it again if it gets tucked, just so you know. Getting your commander tucked just means there is now a higher cost associated to casting it. For plenty of decks, the commander tax is meaningless, but if they have to use up a tutor to get their commander back, then you're actually trading resources and your removal had a more tangible impact on the game.
I very distinctly remember a game in which my Grenzo got Condemned early on, my deck had no demonic/vampiric tutors, and it only operated at like 50% capacity without its commander. I managed to shuffle my library, stick a Teferi's Puzzle Box, stabilize and stall with Nekrataals for 4+ turns until I got my Grenzo back, and I won that game. That was one of the most fun and interesting games of EDH I've had, and it started with my build-around commander getting tucked to the bottom of a deck that barely works without him.
This "psychological effect" you describe exists, but it's dumb. There are plenty of psychological effects like that that new players should get rid of. I put it in the same school as "milling cards is good because you might mill one of their bombs". Milling a bomb isn't breaking your deck, and tucking your commander isn't losing you the game: it just informs and changes your game plan from here on out in that game. And when you're the one tucking, it buys you some time to make some forward progress before your opponent's commander comes back.
>>46545234
Tuck endorses creating decks that can thrive without the commander. that's all that needs to be said. What kind of player comes to mind when you think of someone that wins without ever casting their commander? Not a casual player. And this is a personal account but: I've never refused to play with someone because of their commander. I have refused to play with someone because of the way they play. I think the tuck ban speaks more to what wizards wants the community to be rather than how they want to balance the format for tournaments. Nobody with a high level deck cared about tuck anyways.
>>46532368
I will continue to call my animar deck animorphs, and you can't stop me.
>>46545571
Your definition of casual players is extremely limiting. If you literally can't play without your commander, then say as much, don't hide it behind the "casual player" label because all the casual players I know could and did play and win games without their commander.
>I think the tuck ban speaks more to what wizards wants the community to be
Wizards isn't in charge of EDH.
>Nobody with a high level deck cared about tuck anyways.
Very obviously false, please play pic related and get a clue.
>>46532368
My Oloro deck I refer to as "The Wonderful Game of Life"
It's informative and very, very autistic
>>46545571
Conversely, my only deck is Sigarda aura voltron. My deck does close to nothing without Sigarda. Being Nevermored is miserable, but I have a lot of Naturalize effects for that. If tuck was widely used, I would have to pack a lot of creature tutors, too. Between removal, enchantresses and card draw, ramp, recursion, creature and enchantment tutors, pillowfort, and anti-counterspell measures, there would be little room for the auras that are the point of the deck.
>>46545501
I'll admit, it isn't impossible. But neither is it if they are in the graveyard or even exille.
My point is that in commander, we specifically made a rule to allow you easy repeatable access to your commander. Because that was the idea of the format.
You know, I bet if you and me play EDH with the rule of no commander tax, the general starts in the command zone but never goes back, we would have a lot of fun. It would be an interesting exciting game, like that Grenzo game.
There really is no real reason for the exception, other than "Well, we've done it this way for a while".
And by the way, the milling a bomb thing IS usually bad, the reason milling cards isn't good is because graveyard is now a second hand and more importantly, you aren't guaranteed to mill anything good. That's why Lantern Control is a thing. You know what you are milling. Unrelated, but I wanted to mention it.
>>46545748
is not
>>46545571
btw
>>46545704
It isn't that they can't play without their commander. It is that they don't want to play commander without their commander.
I mean, I'm sure some of you would play EDH without a commander. But most casual players enjoy having a commander. That's the primary appeal of the format.
>>46534126
I think it's tiresome, when I play my Memnarch deck, sometimes things go that bad that my untap step is the longest phase of my turn. Extra fun when I have unwinding clock on the field.
>>46545768
>we specifically made a rule to allow you easy repeatable access to your commander. Because that was the idea of the format.
And that was still how the format worked under tuck rules. Tuck never stopped commanders from being a thing that matters and that impacts every game. It just gave players an answer that did more than delay a commander one turn. And tucking a commander didn't mean it was gone forever. It just forced a player to adapt, which is a good thing.
>>46545748
>my only deck is built around a creature that has hexproof and edict protection
>it does nothing without its commander because I built it under the assumption people wouldn't be able to remove it in any lasting manner
>I think tuck is a bad thing because god forbid people be able to interact with me or my commander
Thanks for your opinion.
>>46545812
Having tuck spells in the format never meant the commanders start the game on the bottom of their owner's library. They still start in the command zone. I'm sure you know that but I figured I'd clarify in case you genuinely think people were playing commander without commanders back when tuck was still a thing.
>>46544733
40 is the minimum for most decks, for the Gitgud Frog I'd run closer to 50.
>>46545918
>god forbid people be able to interact with me or my commander
>What is Naturalize
There are more ways to interact with people than just creature removal.
I have no problem with Merciless Eviction etc. There are plenty of chinks in the armour. Building up and risking overextending whilst trying to cover my ass from unusual removal like Council's Judgment and pillowfort like Dissipation Field is the fun of the deck. If I have to cast Sigarda more than twice in a game, I'm almost certainly not winning anyway.
>>46545953
40 is only the minimum with no additional sources of mana. With a standard package of mana rocks, most decks operate just fine at around 36-37 lands. Rule of thumb I hear a lot of people go by is they reduce their land count by 1 for every 2 mana rocks they throw in.I dislike rules of thumb like that because every deck is different so I just figure it out through extensive playtesting.
>>46546070
Of course there are chinks in the armor and answers to what you're doing. The point is you built a deck in such a way as to make your commander as difficult to interact with as possible, so your opinion about tuck is predictable and as biased as humanly possible.
>>46546171
Why would you be using mana rocks in a land-based deck?
>>46546212
I was replying to the comment that 40 is the minimum for most decks. Since most decks run some number of mana rocks, that statement is generally false.
Also, you'd usually still run mana rocks in a land-based decks, because shit like Sol Ring and Mana Crypt are too good to pass up: plus, it doesn't leave you with 0 mana in play if someone casts Armageddon. I'm a huge proponent of mixing up your sources of ramp so you're not undone by a single Vandalblast or MLD spell.
>>46545918
Do your really not understand that tucking was an exception that didn't need to exist? The idea behind the commander tax clearly was to ensure that the commander is EASILY accessible.
Sure, I can run tutors or make sure I always have a sac outlet when my commander is in play, as people did. There are loads of answers. There are loads of ways to avoid tuck.
But why would we have a rule that stops commanders from going to the graveyard, one of the most readily accessible zones in the entire game but not a 80 card library?
I didn't hate tucking. I didn't get salty. I actually found it a godsend against butt loads of the decks I used to play against. I ran Jenara and ran Terminus, Hallowed Burial, Deglamer, Spell Crumble and Hinder. I felt I needed it to stand a chance against these decks.
But I got over myself. I realized that winning doesn't matter that much to me. And I'd rather not be forced to play effects that skirt over a big idea of the format and I'd rather just lose to those people and move on with my life.
>>46545950
I know, I am just saying that if someone actively ENJOYS not having a commander, they probably are tired of EDH as a format or it never was the right fit for them in the first place.
>>46546262
Oh you're just an idiot okay carry on.
>>46546262
I am all for vandalblast, but hate MLD. Mainly because Sol Ring represents degenerate greed to me.
Of course, I hate crazy land ramp too.
Fuck, why do I play this format? If I could get some people for casual 60 card formats like star, I'd be much happier.
>>46546304
He's right though, you always want some rocks, especially the broken ones, in any deck. Do you cut Sol Ring/Crypt in land heavy decks?
>>46546353
I never use either because they're for tryhards.
>>46546304
I looked everywhere but couldn't find your argument.
>>46546353
I think he's one of those people who swears by 40 + rocks.
Like those decks that win with only a few cards, one being the commander and the rest is tutors and card draw.
>>46546381
I think he's baiting, bad, or both. But you never really know sometimes.
Does anyone have any suggestions for my Damia deck? In b4 gitgud.
//DISCARD- grind
1 Bottomless Pit
1 Creeping Dread
1 Gibbering Descent
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Necrogen Mists
1 Oppression
1 Painful Quandary
1 Warped Devotion
1 Words of Waste
//DISCARD- one-shot
1 Cabal Conditioning
1 Delirium Skeins
1 Mindslicer
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Unnerve
1 Wit's End
//DISCARD- value
1 From Under the Floorboards
1 Geth's Grimoire
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ground Seal
1 Waste Not
//DISCARD- from play
1 Damnation
1 Mana Vortex
1 Smokestack
1 Tainted Æther
//BOUNCE
1 Ætherize
1 Cowardice
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Devastation Tide
1 Evacuation
1 Mana Breach
1 Overburden
1 Storm Cauldron
1 Words of Wind
//BIG MANA
1 Caged Sun
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Crop Rotation
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Expedition Map
1 Exploration
1 Farseek
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Hunting Wilds
1 Jhessian Zombies
1 Life from the Loam
1 Liliana of the Dark Realms
1 Sylvan Scrying
//BIG MANA- bombs
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Death Cloud
1 Exsanguinate
1 Genesis Wave
1 Memory Jar
1 Omniscience
1 Rise of the Dark Realms
1 Spitting Image
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Villainous Wealth
1 Worm Harvest
//PILLOWFORT
1 Crawlspace
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 No Mercy
1 Noetic Scales
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Witchbane Orb
//UTILITY LANDS
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Mortuary Mire
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vesuva
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Damia, Sage of Stone
>>46546301
>But I got over myself. I realized that winning doesn't matter that much to me.
For me, it isn't about winning so much as it is about fun. Interactive games are fun. Tucking promotes interaction. It creates variance. It ensures not every game will play out the same way. I love having commanders in this format but I also loved being able to answer those commanders because answering things is a part of Magic and goddamn it I can't understand why that concept is so hard to grasp for some people: that wanting to be able to answer something doesn't mean you hate that thing. It's always "if you like tuck you must hate commanders" with you idiots.
>>46546423
Git gud at using tappedout.net
>>46546460
I prefer deckstats.net
>>46546423
Not going to even look at this shit. Print out your list, take a picture of it with your smartphone and post it here sideways if you want suggestions.
>>46542495
You seem to like math and dragons an awful lot.
A little spergy but you give your friend decks which is pretty bro.
Would play with and talk about casual Vorthos related shit.
>>46546171
My point is that decks which are heavily built around the commander suffer disproportionately, and so it makes many commanders less attractive to play.
Good luck making your Zedruu deck work without Zedruu. Maybe we should make surgical extraction actually remove commanders from the game entirely.
Besides, voltron doesn't need to be even less viable than it is already.
>>46546476
/edhg/ doesn't.
>>46545136
Can I see your Dromaka and Nefarox? They sound kinda cool.I like shades
>>46546605
You fucks and your tuck rules bullshit.
Christ tuck affected everyone equally, and now that it doesn't exist, it's still affecting everyone equally. There's still things that effectively remove commanders from the game, like Darksteel Mutation. Fucking use it. The tuck ruling is over and done with. It's not changing. Move on to arguing about something more productive, like which one of you cum guzzlers gets the biggest erection when Oblation is rolled up and stuffed in your ass.
>>46546661
Wrong target with the post reference. Oops
>>46546563
Decks built around creatures suffer disproportionately to wraths.
Decks built around artifacts suffer disproportionately to vandalblast.
Decks built around graveyards suffer disproportionately to Rest in Peace.
Building heavily around something always carries risks and benefits. If you build heavily around your commander, then it's perfectly reasonable that you should be vulnerable to commander-hate-cards. But the benefits still outweighed the risk: building around your commander was still very much a good thing to do, you just had to be smart about it and not put all your eggs in one basket. But I can understand how that might be too much trouble when you could just do like the Sigarda anon above and run literally no wincon other than your commander because proper deckbuilding is too hard.
>>46546661
You don't understand, they think the format is better after the change when it actually is worse. They're wrong! We can't allow people to be wrong on an anonymous image board.
>>46546425
There are lots of ways to interact in EDH. Tucking a commander is technically interaction, but so is killing a commander.
Killing a commander is an answer to a commander. What you want is a way to kill it for realsies, essentially. Because well, I killed his General last turn, now he can just recast it. Spoiler alert, that's the reason they made commander. Essentially what you want is AWOL, if you could, you would want them to never draw it again. You want to make them work for it.
People justify the notion of there being a way to more seriously remove a commander is important to combat decks that abuse the rules of commander.
The way I promote variance is by removing tutors and not casting my commander over and over again. Or not paying the same decks over and over again. Or trying to make less linear decks or fucking doing anything other than continuing an exception to one of the fundamental ideas of the format.
>>46546753
Oh, I forgot must've confused this for another general, I thought this was an EDH or Commander general.
You know, a format whose entire appeal is based on having a card available all game?
Of course linear strategies get shat on by hate cards. But the difference is that these ones shit on the entire point of the format.
>>46546856
>Essentially what you want
Don't tell me what I want, you obviously don't understand what I want and have no interest in even trying to understand what I want. It's about promoting interaction but you'll somehow manage to read that and interpret it as "I don't want my opponents to play" or some other similarly retarded nonsense. >>46546661
is right, this is fucking stupid.
>>46546908
>You know, a format whose entire appeal is based on having a card available all game?
Entire is a strong word. The fact that it is highlander along with the cool deck building restrictions based on color are more the reason I enjoy it.
>>46546939
You don't understand anon. If his commander isn't in play, he isn't playing Commander.
>>46546660
They are honestly by far my worst decks. They are full of pet cards.
Here, I'll check if they are on tapped out. They might be out of date or inaccurate. I'm on a phone.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/29-03-16-dromoka/
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/28-06-14-nefarox/
