How many Dark Eldar are there? They seem to have the reproduction issue pretty much sorted out, what with them just growing new Eldar in vats and resurrecting all the significant ones who die. They're also safe in the Webway with little beyond other Dark Eldar to harm them, and they've had 10,000 years to grow. While they obviously kill each other a lot, surely they should have build up quite a population by now?
>>45534189
Tons, iirc.
Not enough to compete with more populous races, but their population is stable enough that they can basically waste lives on raids and not have significant upset in their horrible hell dimension back home.
>>45534189
There are as many elves as the plot requires.
>>45534189
Judging by the size of the Dark City, trillions easy. Certainly not enough to compete with the Imperium or Orks, but still a stupid high amount of bodies.
>>45534189
>surely they should have build up quite a population by now?
They do. Phil Kelly stated in an interview that a large Kabal has a population on-par with a small Craftworld, and the Kabals represent the very pinnacle of Commorite society. There's masses and masses of Dark Eldar commoners who live in the undercity and will never have anything to do with the Kabals.
This thread may be the best place to ask. What always confused me about Eldar and Dark Eldar are their souls. So as far as I understand the Eldar have that problem of dwindling numbers because their souls are finite, this is why they are so hellbent on saving all the soul gems. But what about those DEldar borne in a lab? Shouldn't the DEldar run out of souls at some point if they are increasing their numbers all the time?
>>45535272
>So as far as I understand the Eldar have that problem of dwindling numbers because their souls are finite, this is why they are so hellbent on saving all the soul gems.
I think this is old lore. The main reason why the Craftworlders and Exodites use soul gems is because, upon death, if their souls aren't protected, they're consumed by Slaanesh.
Dark Eldar don't have too much concern with that for a couple of reasons:
1) Being trapped in a soulstone is the worst kind of hell for them, since when you're in a soulstone, you can't feel *anything*, and Dark Eldar live for sensory satisfaction.
2) Although none of them much like the fact that they're going to be consumed by Slaanesh upon death, a lot of them draw excitement from that. The idea of skirting such a dangerous afterlife by performing a number of death-defying stunts thrills them immensely, and shows other Dark Eldar that they fear nothing.
>>45535428
3) Anyone who is worth a damn will be resurrected by the Haemonculi. Sure, random commoners will be consumed by Slaanesh, but no one is going to be particularly upset about that.
>>45535428
>I think this is old lore.
Goddam, but this may explain it. So... why don't the Eldar create artificial Eldars if they don't have this problem?
>>45535485
The best they can do is Wraiths. Craftworlders aren't comfortable with the test tube babies of the Commorites, since it probably comes from some pretty fucked-up science.
>>45535483
That too, but it's probably only for Trueborn and up.
>>45535428
Also, CWE move the souls held in the stones into the craftworld's infinity circuit when they bring them back aboard, allowing them to interact with other souls and even livign Eldar in a limited fashion. DE don't have an infinity circuit so they'd just be stuck inside the stone forever, and even if they did would you really trust another DE to actually take the stone there rather than crack it open and eat that delicious soul of yours.
>>45535485
1) I suspect they don't have the technology. Dark Eldar are more technologically advanced than Craftworlders and have preserved much of the absurdly advanced tech of the Eldar Empire. You know, the stuff that made it so that "the stars themselves once lived and died at our command." They can bring people back from death even if there's just a finger left, their guns shoot dark matter, and they can create black holes at will, to name a few things. They have a lot of toys the Craftworlders no longer have access to, and this may be one of them.
2) Even if the Craftworlds do have the tech, there's still the issue of Soulstones. These ARE finite. So unless you can get some more from the old Eldar worlds in the Eye of Terror, your population is limited to the amount of soulstones the Craftworld has in its possession. So it's not like growing Eldar in vats would lead to a population explosion or anything.
3) They might consider it morally wrong to just grow people in vats with no family, no upbringing and no culture. Even among the Dark Eldar, the "half-born" are looked down upon.
>>45534189
Compared to their Craftworld cousins, probably they surpass them 10 to 1.
>>45535483
This is the first time I see a female Haemonculi. More so with nice breasts.
Or it's probably one that experimented with his body and resulted in looking more feminine.
IN A HARLEQUINS ARMY CAN I HAVE BOTH CRAFTWORLD AND DARK ELDAR IN THE SAME LIST
>>45535428
>I think this is old lore.
It isn't, that anon may have just recalled reading that the stones are finite then confused it with the actual souls themselves.
>>45535805
I have such sights to show you.
>>45536611
Ah, that one old model.
Seems she didn't want to wait till her kids gets out the proper way.
>>45536665
It's warhammer, she probably has a separately portable stomach to avoid reflux.
>>45536665
And not just her kids either.
>>45536222
Jain Zar hanging out with Harlequins is pretty fun.
I've always wanted to do the gimmicky 'make everyone very scared' list where you stack the fear mask from the Harles with the Armor of Dread.
That's because I love scary armies though, which is sadly useless thanks to ATSKNF
The pain of being a Night Lords chump
I've heard people say that Dark Eldar are actually what most humans would think of when you say "Eldar" because they massively outnumber the Craftworld Eldar and are active all over the place as mercenaries and such. Is this true?
Come to think of it, how well-known are Eldar anyway? Wouldn't they be a fairly obscure species with how few of them still live?
>>45536739
Nah. Haemonculi will do everything to feel discomfort or anything that'll hurt them.
>>45536747
Darn I forgot how stupid looking the old Grotesques looked like. Good thing the current ones are badass.
>>45537141
Nobody cares about that except of people that do care.
There was even a situation of a Space Marine that couldn't differentiate between Craftworld and Dark Eldar.
>>45537141
DE and corsairs are the Eldar most humans would be likely to encounter. Most humans don't distinquish between the two: both are a bunch of pirates who likely to want you dead, so them having different-looking ships and vehicles isn't particularly important detail, especially since corsairs use a lot of DE stuff along with CWE-derived stuff anyway.
Hell, in BFG the "standard" Eldar fleet is actually the corsair one, since proper CWE ships are extremely rarely seen anywhere but in the immediate vicinity of a craftworld.
>>45537141
>To the majority of Mankind, the Eldar are just a rumour – terrible stories of piratical raiders. For those in the Imperium, there is little to distinguish between the ships of the Eldar craftworlds, the corsair fleets or the bloodthirsty Dark Eldar. All are seen as the same thing – an elusive menace that can bring sudden and cruel death to the unwary – just another reason for Mankind to hate and distrust all xenos. For their part, the Kabals of the Dark Eldar understand how their rapacious actions continue to drive a wedge between human/Eldar relations. This only serves to delight their sadistic hearts – for to them, Humanity is barbarous and beneath respect, no different from the way Mankind treats their livestock – brute beasts useful for sustenance and little else.
- Dark Millennium
>>45537320
>Darn I forgot how stupid looking the old Grotesques looked like.
To be fair, "Stupid" was literally the name of one of their rules.
>>45537445
Yeah. And due to this their role on the battlefield was as questionable in the same sense as a certain Chaos unit that became better in 5th ED and onward.
>>45537389
If the DEldar consider humanity to be livestock, why do they care about Eldar/human relations? I wouldn't particularly care to hear cows thought less highly of humans thanks to my actions.
>>45537573
Because they find it funny to get Imperium all riled up and mistakingly attacking their craftworld cousins. Like irritating some animal and then directing it towards somebody else while you watch the results.
How come Slaanesh patiently waits for the DEldar to be reincarnated in a vat instead of gobbling its disgusting Xenos soul?
>>45537982
Slaanesh is not omniscient or omnipresent and the Haemonculi work quickly.
>>45535485
Even if they could, it doesn't solve the main problem of the Eldar which is Slaanesh consuming their souls. Dark Eldar don't give a shit nut Craftworlders do. Also, remember that the Craftworld Eldar are composed mainly of the people who fled Eldar society when it was becoming bad.
So you're dealing with some pretty conservative people who might have something to say about test tube babies.
>>45537320
>Nah. Haemonculi will do everything to feel discomfort or anything that'll hurt them.
They're eccentric, not masochists. Everyone has preferences. And meddling with your guts through huge stiched gash every time you have a meal is plenty freaky compared to reflux.
>>45537573
Well, the "cows" are wielding the one of the greatest military machines in the galaxy. Dark Eldar may consider Humans beneath them but they're not stupid. The Imperium could stomp out Commoragh if it wanted to but they don't since it would require a lot of effort and in the grand scale of things the raids don't do much damage
>>45537573
They're like the abusive drunk farmer who sees his daughter getting fond of a lamb and takes it to the block.
>>45537573
Because it either benefits them, or it's simply amusing
>not recalling that Duke Sliscus, RIP his thrice damned soul, butchered an entire world because the Governer fucked up his name once
>>45537982
They don't actually need the full soul to be brought back; just an echo of it will do.
>Provided this process in enacted within a day or so of the warrior’s demise, and his will is strong enough that some of his spirit still resonates within his remains, his animus will slowly regenerate along with his physical form.
>>45534189
I think it's a lot more than the other residents of the galaxy realise but still not a significant amount overall. It's difficult to tell because Commorragh is geographically spread out, but also connected via the webway and no idea of its size is given. At a guess it's somewhere between the size of a megalopolis like the Tokyo region and an entire planet.
>>45535428
They also are hellbent on saving their souls, literally. That's why they torture people, why they give up a chunk of their soul for a resurrection and why SOP for a Dark Eldar raid is to load all the corpses onto Raiders for resurrection. You'd think they wouldn't give a shit about the last bit but apparently they really do. It's also the reason no chaos worship or psychic powers are allowed in the city and why that proscription is obeyed even though the first one not to would have a huge advantage.
>>45538189
In the novel Path of the renegade, they actually revived a guy that has been dead for more than a 1000 years, iirc.
>>45538189
>>45538234
Well they sort of did it
:^)
Go read the trilogy, i really did enjoy them
>>45538245
Well yeah, iirc, they brought up a demon or something, not sure. I've just read the first book, but I have plans on getting the second and the third one as well.
>>45538279
The last one is a bit iffy desu - it was around the 7e fluff shift.
But as a whole i'd rate them about 8/10 overall
Then again i fell in love with DE since the 5e rebirth
>>45537982
DE souls cling to the body even after death. Slaanesh can only get the soul f the connection between the body and soul is severed, sending it adrift in the Warp (which is what normally happens when a being dies. Force weapons also instakill you by severing the connection while you're still alive).
>>45537573
>If the DEldar consider humanity to be livestock, why do they care about Eldar/human relations? I wouldn't particularly care to hear cows thought less highly of humans thanks to my actions.
However, from the DEldar perspective, it might be your fetish to lull your cows into a stockholme-syndrome-like sense of security, and earning their trust so that you can wack it to the looks of betrayal on their face as they realize what the slaughterhouse is.
>>45537982
Because, you don't eat all the fish in the pond, you leave enough to spawn the next generation, and make sure you can keep getting more. That's my personal headcanon theory as to how the first Haemonculi learned their craft: Slaanesh decided to savor his/her meal slowly, and so told some of the meat how to create tasty torture-based preservatives.
>>45538879
Why would they need Slaanesh for that? Slaanesh spawned from Eldar depravity. Their skill at torture predates her very existence, and they hardly need her to acquire advanced technology either.
>>45539049
Yes, but turning torture into a soul-regeneration process that just HAPPENS to turn what was a limited pool of survivors into a perpetual soul-nosh, with the side effect of creating a whole lot of fun torture parties for all the other races... that has Slaanesh's fingerprints all over it.
>>45539183
>that has Slaanesh's fingerprints all over it.
It's Slaanesh that has Eldar fingerprints on him/her, not the other way around.
>>45539183
But all of that was already going on. That's how Slaanesh was created, remember? You're reversing cause and effect here, the Eldar were the OG assholes. The only thing that changed is that now their souls didn't get devoured. You could argue that this benefits Slaanesh long term, but it's a pretty weak point to base your case on and it doesn't strike me as in-character for a God of Excess to deny herself instant gratification for some minor benefits down the line.
>>45539444
>Kinky god not being into denial
>>45539578
Slaanesh is the god of excess, not mere kinky sex.
>>45539578
Well, the Grey Knights certainly are.
>the six chants of denial
>>45539774
Slaanesh is the god of desire, and the "catch 22" curse of his blessing is becoming so numb to sensation that you have to keep turning it up a notch and and getting more and more depraved. The denial of desire to intensify them sounds like its well within his Purview.
>>45539444
>But all of that was already going on.
Maybe in the new, shittier fluff, I'm not sure, but I remember back when special characters just had blurbs, Urien's said something about him being the one to discover the secrets of warding off she-who-thirsts. If it's a technique specifically to fend off Slaanesh, they probably weren't doing it before Slaanesh. Granted, back then, they didn't tell you how it worked, they just let you know that Urien figured it out, and that there's a might-be-true story that vect told one of his captives to drive him mad trying to imagine what it MIGHT be that staves off she-who-thirsts. Much creepier and fluffier, because the unknown is WAY cooler than "yup, they torture folks and it causes body-parts to regenerate."
The rarity of omniscient narrator, and frequent unreliable narrators allowing more room for headcanon is something I miss about the 3rd ed era of books. I think it was the first Necron codex that started the tradition of telling WAY too much from an omniscient viewpoint. I ate it up when it came out, because I was a stupid teenager, but now I see the negative effects it had on the fluff in the long run.
>>45539961
No, it's excess. You need increasingly extreme sensations because she wants your activity to become increasingly excessive. Desire actually sounds more like Tzeentch, what with him being the God of Ambition and Hope. Slaanesh is about the sensation itself.
>>45540167
They've certainly deviated from their original "clearly the 4 medieval humors" version in the past couple decades.
>>45537371
And the converted de fleet that lots of bfg players run with look a lot like both craftworld and corsair ships. Enough that you might think it's just normal variation in tech.
>>45538066
For the Eldar, 40k is a post-apoc setting. You have exodites, who are like survivalists: they saw it all coming, were like "wake up sheeple, it's happening!" And then headed out to the sticks to live in harmony with nature.
The craftworlders are like those remnants of civilization that get organized and linger on afterward. In this case, by going all religious fundamentalist.
The dark eldar turned into 80s punk rockers, picked up Australian accents, and went bat shit crazy.
The corsairs are free spirits, but also cynical survivors. They don't need another hero. They don't need to know the way home. All they want is what's beyond the Thunderdome.
>>45537389
A guide to telling Eldar and DArk Eldar apart
When you see a ship, count the sharp edges and blades
Could you count them at all? They are not Dark Eldar.
>>45540150
>but I remember back when special characters just had blurbs, Urien's said something about him being the one to discover the secrets of warding off she-who-thirsts.
Only on the GW website. His codex fluff was just a bit of flavour text about him peeling off a Space Marine's skin while struggling to remember what all the pain was originally for, if anything.
>Granted, back then, they didn't tell you how it worked
It wasn't neatly laid out in one place, true (which likely helped give rise to the "Dark Eldar literally sacrifice their victims to the Chaos Gods" interpretation, much like "C'tan eat souls" - both supported by the official website, no less), but there were several accounts of DEldar straight-up consuming souls, most tellingly this one:
>The Dark Eldar Lord’s eyes glazed over, as he took a long, deep breath. Khirareq felt the spirits around her drifting away, pulled towards the gulf inside the Lord’s own soul. The Lord’s body twitched spasmodically as he absorbed the freed life essence of his followers, which was coalescing around his throne in a faint mist. As the spirits of the dead were consumed, Akhara’Keth’s spasms increased and a thin dribble of saliva trickled from the corner of his slack lips. With a shuddering sigh, the Lord finished and slumped back in the chair. When he sat forward once more his eyes burned more brightly, his skin was less wrinkled, his hair darker with more lustre.
>>45544169
[cont.]
Then he goes on about the Thirst and how it's an ever-growing emptiness that must be continually sated. Combine that with this little fluff box about the Dark Eldar being driven to further and further extremes by their fear of "the Great Enemy; the One Who Thirsts", and a reasonably solid picture forms.
>I think it was the first Necron codex that started the tradition of telling WAY too much from an omniscient viewpoint.
Or Realm of Chaos. Or earlier.
Personally I think putting the pieces together yourself is more fun (and the Oldcron codex still had a fair amount of that), but with the 40k readership - and writership - being what it is, having some actual clarity, at least in certain cases, is probably for the better.
>>45535485
The DEldar test tube babies seem to be grown by using pain to regenerate their souls and body. This is why the regeneration tubes for the important trueborn are located directly above the Haemonculus' torture slabs (source: either DEldar 7e codex or the supplement). It's probably also why CEldar don't do this. However, it's not made entirely clear whether the clone vats run on the same tech as the regeneration vats do. (or if it is, I have forgotten)
As well, what this guy said
>>45535671
There's a limited number of soulstones. This doesn't matter to the DEldar since they all plan on living forever, but it's a pretty big deal to their craftworld cousins who view every single soul lost to She Who Thirsts as a tragedy.
