24 Adversaries and counting!
I'm not going to be adding any Adversaries until tomorrow, so try to focus on downloading the new ones, playing some matches and getting your names on the player list.
Adversary is a new, custom format for Magic: The Gathering intended to be played over Cockatrice.
>How is it played?
In Adversary, players select an Adversary card from an existing archive, or create their own. These Adversaries enter play from turn one, and possess abilities that change the way the game is played. If you've ever tried out Vanguard, you'll feel right at home. Adversary uses 61-card decks (including the Adversary card).
The format is Modern Singleton, and the banlist can be found here: http://pastebin.com/4JUSJp01
>How are Adversaries balanced?
Each Adversary is assigned three values: a life total, a starting hand size, and a level. The life total and starting hand size are used to balance Adversaries based on the power of their abilities. In the event that they cannot be effectively balanced this way, Adversaries are also assigned a level, indicating that they are only suited for play against Adversaries of a similar level.
>How can I make my own Adversary?
Post your desired rules text, color identity, illustration and artist-to-credit in this thread and I might make it for you! Alternatively, make it yourself in Photoshop or an MTG card creation program. I will then add it to the .xml file and it will become available to everyone.
>What is Cockatrice and where do I download it?
http://www.woogerworks.com/
>Adversary files and installation guide
http://pastebin.com/TCGtFAXF
>Player List
http://pastebin.com/m05wzSJF
>Level Guideline
http://pastebin.com/4fV7y17f
>Photoshop Template
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g9i30t9lxpmf0ni/5%20Shared%20Adversary%20Template.psd?dl=0
>Obligatory Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTeRLM_ki84&list=PL1A0CA0B29E547F8A
>Previous Thread
>>44337927
First for postan Shiramon
>>44360536
>OP pic
This card is quite a bit more blck than it is red. AFAIK, there's only two cards in the game that give -1/-1 counters in red without also being black.
Ignoring every red card with Wither
>>44360797
In my opinion, it's not particularly important if an Adversary violates color norms. It makes sense to enforce these things with standard custom cards, but Adversary is all about recontextualizing the design and purpose of your deck. In some cases, giving an Adversary an unfitting color identity can help keep their level low, since it renders the most effective deckbuilds inaccessible.
Plus, I like the flavor of Ignis burning everything on the battlefield over time, even his own creatures.
>>44360828
>>44360797
Well, yeah. And infect. Those are very different mechanics from what OP's posted.
There still aren't even that many pure-red cards with wither.
>>44360840
>it's not particularly important if an Adversary violates color norms
The color pie is part of what's supposed to keep magic balanced though. Restricting things like white's access to card draw or blue's access to efficient beaters helps keep things under control. If you start throwing those default expectations out the window you're sailing in completely uncharted territory as far as balanced is concerned.
It's not so much that things are doomed to be unbalanced, but that it creates a lot of work for "deck recontextualization" that could be achieved just as easily by creating interesting, in-color effects.
Ignis himself isn't that much of a problem, but the fact that you're so ready to do away with the color pie worries me.
>>44360536
>I'm not going to be adding any Adversaries until tomorrow
You mean, no more suggestion posts?, if so, should we repost the latter suggestions of the last thread that did not have the time to get a card?
>>44360897
Well, to be clear, I support 'doing away with the color pie' only to an extent. Red is probably the next most relevant color next to black for -1/-1 counters, and this use of it perfectly matches flavor and accomodates burn decks perfectly.
If someone were to go completely insane and make a monowhite Adversary that gives your creatures deathtouch and trample, then we might have a problem, but that has yet to happen.
>>44360910
You may still post suggestions or designs if you wish. I plan to get to all of them in chronological order of when they were posted, so it doesn't matter too much.
>>44360536
>Almost completely invalidates any sort of weenie-based playstyle
>Cannot be removed
This just strikes me as odd. Looking back at the list of vanguards, noneof them could change the game into a rock-paper scissors match. The closest you've got is one with a No Mercy effect that can still sort of be played around by creature-based aggro.
M8 I noticed in the last thread you said Commander cards are OK, and I'd just like to give you the heads up that the Commander (and any other supplemental) product is not Modern legal unless it's been printed in Standard between 8th Edition and now. If you allow Commander and other supplemental cards, you're letting in things like Sol Ring, Flusterstorm, True-Name Nemesis, Swords to Plowshares (Conspiracy), and more.
You'd also be changing your cardpool from a more easily understandable "Modern" to a less grokkable "Modern and also Commander product and maybe other supplemental"
Jezabell, Queen of Blood (x)
Artist: John Goh Chuan Heng
Adversary - Vampire (WB)
If an opponent would lose life from a source you control instead you gain that much life.
Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies you gain life equal to its toughness.
At the beginning of your upkeep if you have 50 or more life you win the game.
15 / 6
Is this one better? I'm trying to account for 1v1 and multiplayer. The main idea is that your main goal is to turtle up and endure while unleashing targeted strikes to help get your life total up. I don't want it so much to be WB control as I just want it to be "aggressively defensive."
>>44361070
I wasn't entirely sure if you meant Commander-viable creatures, cards that have Commander-based effects or actual Commander set cards, so I only said that Commander-viable creatures are fine.
Anything that isn't Modern legal isn't Adversary legal, full stop.
>>44361067
It's inevitable that some Adversaries are going to be hard counters to certain playstyles. Adversaries aren't really designed to be equally viable against every possible deck type, which is why you have 24 Adversaries to choose from.
>>44361072
The "creature dies" clause might be a bit much. WB has plenty of ways to facilitate lifegain already and 50 life isn't so lofty a goal. It doesn't really need more life for free.
>>44361136
Should I set it back to 100 life? In the last thread they said 100 was really steep.
>>44361156
You could alter the ability somewhat so it's more like...
(T): Put a siphon counter on target creature an opponent controls.
Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, if it had a siphon counter on it, you gain life equal to its toughness.'
>>44361122
>It's inevitable that some Adversaries are going to be hard counters to certain playstyles.
And this is, in my opinion, bad format design, especially since it could be avoided if you looked at the preesxisting vanguards more closely for balance guidelines. As far as choosing which adversary you use depending on who you're playing, that makes the game even more rock-paper-scissors like. "I'm playing against burn, better bring lifegain." "I'm playing against reanimator, better bring my deck with hard grave hate." You see the problem?
>>44361182
Ohh! I like that! Whats the exchange rate from taping to mana cost? So its like
>WB: Put a siphon counter on target creature an opponent controls.
>>44361156
100 is rather steep, yes. Dedicated lifegain decks in modern (eg Soul Sisters) can hit 40 with reasonable consistency, so 50 is probably a good point for a free 'you win' effect.
>>44361182
'(T): Whenever target creature an opponent controls dies this turn, you gain life equal to its toughness'
or
'Once per turn, when a creature an opponent controls dies, you gain life equal to its toughness'
You really don't need weird counters to make this ability work. And the ability still isn't really needed. This thing alreay has a big, flashy ability that changes the way the game is played. Any extra utility is just tacked on.
>>44361156
Make it 66 life.
Here I thought that's what sideboards were for.
PSA: If you're interested in playing this format and you have a Cockatrice account, don't forget to post your Cockatrice username in this thread so I can add you to the list, allowing other players to add and play with you. That's arguably the most important part of this operation.
>>44361235
I see the problem, but you could do the exact same thing with regular MTG on Cockatrice.
>>44361274
WB seems reasonable. We could run with that and then consider changing it after some playtesting.
>>44361287
>sideboards
I mean, you could, but I wouldn't expect anyone to. From some of the stuff posted in the last thread, it seemed to me like this was intended to be played casually, and as a multiplayer format. People don't tend to run sideboards then. I could be misinterpreting though.
Either way, how do you sideboard out an entire deck strategy?
>>44361345
>I see the problem, but you could do the exact same thing with regular MTG on Cockatrice.
You could, yes. But in regular mtg you don't run the risk of having your entire deck invalidated with no recompense. There's bad matchups, sure, but they can be played around. Most often by boarding in removal designed to deal with the cards causing the problems. If adversary has sideboards at all, there isn't any removal in the game that could knock off someone's adversary.
Again, the solution is rather simple. If adversary abilities were conditional, activated (and likely expensive), or targeted at your own side of the board, like the vanguard abilities are, this wouldn't even be a discussion.
>>44361402.
>If adversary abilities were conditional, activated (and likely expensive), or targeted at your own side of the board, like the vanguard abilities are, this wouldn't even be a discussion.
And many are, but I'm not interested in arbitrarily limiting the possibilities.
Listed beneath each player's name in the players list are the Adversaries they have created decks for. If someone doesn't want to play against Ignis, or any other Adversary with a similarly designed effect, for the reasons you've stated - then they simply aren't going to solicit that player for a match. This community will never be large enough for random matchups to be a thing. It's always going to be regulated by who and what the players wish to play against.
Jezabell, Queen of Blood (x)
Artist: John Goh Chuan Heng
Adversary - Vampire (WB)
If an opponent would lose life from a source you control instead you gain that much life.
Whenever a creature a Siphon counter on it dies you gain life equal to its toughness.
At the beginning of your upkeep if you have 50 or more life you win the game.
WB: Put a siphon counter on target creature an opponent controls.
15 / 6
Now I feel like its to wordy and doing to much. I may have to scratch this one and think of another way to push WB "Aggressively defensive."
>>44361505
Just scrap the activated ability. It does plenty without it. Might push the card down a level, sure, but it's still a fine card.
>>44361462
>Choosing which players to play based on who you have a favorable matchup against
This is definitely a solution to the rock-paper-scissors problem, but it really doesn't seem to sit right with me, personally. I don't think this format is for me. Best of luck.
>>44361505
>>44361283
>(W)(B): Whenever target creature an opponent controls dies this turn, you gain life equal to its toughness
I think this could work. Condenses things while mostly retaining functionality.
>>44361548
Alright. Thanks for your input.For the record, though, it's not going to be 'who you have a favorable matchup against', because then the other player would consider it an unfavorable matchup and refuse it in much the same way. It would be closer to 'who you have an open matchup against'. Not necessarily 'even', but 'one is not directly affected by the other'
I had an idea for an Adversary last night, but am only getting it out now. There's two different ways I'm thinking of going with it, so I'd like to see which way people think is more interesting.
FIRST VERSION
Phantasmagoria, Living Illusion
Artist: 피콕 (Myung Sin Koo)
Color Identity: RU
Tap, X: Put an X/X Illusion creature token named Spawn of Phantasmagoria onto the battlefield. Sacrifice it whenever it takes damage.
Whenever a creature named Spawn of Phantasmagoria dies, each player draws a card.
{25}{4}
--------
SECOND VERSION
Color Identity: RUG
Tap, RX: Put an X/X Illusion creature token with haste named Spawn of Phantasmagoria onto the battlefield. Sacrifice it at the end of the turn.
Tap, UX: Return target permanent with coverted mana cost X to its owner's hand.
Tap, GX: Add X colorless mana to your mana pool at the beginning of your next Main Phase I.
{16}{5}
>>44361641
The first version is quite interesting. I would peg it for a Level 1, although I imagine that might change once I see the kinds of synergies it offers.
The second version's identity isn't quite as defined. The 'haste' part makes that ability significantly stronger, and the (G)(X) ability could be an Adversary all on its own.
>>44360536
What is the difference between the command zone and adverse zone? Note that emblems already use the former so it's not an EDH-only part of the game and you're already making enough new stuff that there doesn't appear to be any reason to make an entirely new zone when an existing one probably does everything you want.
>>44360897
I imagine a really pie-breaking adversary, like a monogreen guy that can turn any instant into a counterspell, would just have a ridiculously inflated level in order to compensate for the power of taking away a color's weaknesses without requiring a weaker mana base. The system is hypothetically self-correcting in that way. I definitely wouldn't put "red removal" in the category "really pie-breaking" though, even if it is slightly the wrong kind of removal. That seems to be missing the point of limitations in favor of being needlessly strict.
>>44361235
Hard counters already exist in Magic, this just amplifies it. This is only for casual matches right? If there was something at stake I'd definitely agree with you but this doesn't seem like a big deal when you can just take the loss and then switch decks for a better matchup. If someone just constantly hard counters everything you pick then people will just stop playing with that person, because when it's time to sit down at the kitchen table nobody invites Spike.
>>44361287
Quick, someone make a five-color Adversary with an insanely large sideboard and a wish ability.
>>44361771
The first version is the version I like better, too.
The idea I knew I was working with was that I wanted it to be something that can spawn illusions, but I felt like by itself that wouldn't be a very interesting. So I ended up giving it an ability for each of the three colors (with the second version), with the limiter of only being able to use one each turn. Still though, I was kind of concerned about its green ability because it seems like it might let you springboard into something kind of crazy and it seems like you agree. The second version also really doesn't interact with the illusion tokens at all beyond spawning them, which I found lame.
So for now I think I'm going to stick with the first version, but probably tinker with it some more because even though I like it, I think I could make it better still.
Ananta Shesha, Shaman of the Kami (x)
http://chasestone.deviantart.com/art/Hooded-Hydra-491569083
Adversary – (G)(B)(W)
You may tap any creatures you control for one mana of any of their colours.
(2)(G): Target creature obtains +3/+3.
(2)(B): Regenerate target creature.
{30}{5}
Repostan.
Repostan also.
Azchiti, Grand Mutator (x)
Adversary - Human Wizard (G)(U)
(G)(U): Remove or Add a +1/+1 counter from Target Permanent.
(1)(G)(U): Remove or Add a -1/-1 counter from Target Permanent.
{19}{6}
>>44361908
>What is the difference between the command zone and adverse zone? Note that emblems already use the former so it's not an EDH-only part of the game and you're already making enough new stuff that there doesn't appear to be any reason to make an entirely new zone when an existing one probably does everything you want.
I simply anticipated lots of complaints if I were to use the command zone, since people are very particular in terms of what can be used in which ways. I'll consider scrapping the adverse zone and using the command zone in the future, though, depends how many people bring this up.
>>44361910
Sure, that's a good idea. Nothing wrong with starting off relatively simple.
>>44362070
I honestly think
>You may tap any creatures you control for one mana of any of their colours.
Is strong enough that you could remove the other two abilities and still end up at level 3, although 2 is possible. And I'd suggest adding 'nontoken' to it.
>>44362254
I like this at first glance. It could get really wacky if your deck has a steep enough mana ramp, but I can think of ways to account for that. It would become much wordier, though.
>>44362070
Goblin King (x)
http://louisagallie.deviantart.com/art/Thirteen-O-Clock-53616893
Adversary – (R)(B)(G)
Gonlins you control have +2/+0 and Haste.
Gonlin spells you cast cost (1) less.
Everytime you cast a Goblin spell add a Magic Dance counter to Goblin King.
(T), Remove three Magic Dance counters: Cast a copy of the last spell you casted for free.
{10}{7}
>>44362319
Hmmm, I'll nerf it then. After dinner.
>>44362521
That would most likely be a Level 4.
It would also be hilarious if it ever faced Goblin-Tossin' Jim.
>>44360840
>particularly important if an Adversary violates color norms
Wow so it's like if someone took the most cancerous aspects of EDH then let the retards of the ccg threads take over.
I'd play tiny leaders before even contemplating subjecting myself to this shit.
>>44362603
Merry Christmas!
>>44362554
>Level 4
Just how OP do I gotta make 'em for level 5?
Also name is wrong, it'd be 'Jarreth, Goblin King'.
>>44362070
Nerf incoming:
>You may tap any creatures you control for one mana of any of their colours.
Now this is Ananta's only ability.
I really like the concept of a Shaman hydra. It feels like giving a creature type representation outside of stereotypes in a non pandering manner (AKA: the Alesha conundrum).
>>44360536
That's a black effect.
>>44361072
>>44361505
I like the suggestion for 66 life, the siphon counter thing is complicating things too much.
>>44361641
"T, X: Put a *COLOR* X/X Illusion creature token named *name* with "if damage would be dealt to *name*, sacrifice it instead" onto the battlefield."
Or just make it an X/1. That's also more red.
>RX ability
"a *COLOR* X/X Illusion creature token named *name* onto the battlefield. It gains haste. Sacrifice it at the end of the turn."
>GX ability
You don't need to say "Main Phase I," just 'main phase.'
>>44362070
"Creatures you control have "T: Add one mana of any of this creature's colors to your mana pool.""
Creatures 'get' +X/+X or -X/-X. That might just be a language thing, though/
>>44362254
"You may add or remove..."
As a general design thing, try not to mix the counter types in the same set, they interact weirdly.
>>44362521
"Get +2/+0 and have haste"
That's like a level 3 right there.
"Goblin spells you cast cost (1) less to cast"
I know, it's weird.
"Whenever you cast"
That activated ability doesn't quite work. The game doesn't handle those memory issues, and copying a creature spell doesn't get you anything. Decide between "Copy target instant or sorcery you control, you may choose new targets for the copy" OR "Put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of targetGoblin?creature you control."
>>44362864
Around this OP.
Could someone add me to the player list?, I don't know how to add myself
Name: BurgerOfPower
Decks: N/A so far.
>>44363074
That
That might be fine, y'know, if it didn't start you at 30 with ten cards.
>Nonbos with Kamigawa Divinity Counters
>>44363034
>That's a black effect.
Indeed, this was discussed earlier in the thread.
>>44362942
Interesting ability. Once again, I find myself not immediately seeing the strength of the card, but am 100% certain I'll be surprised at how much combo potential there is.
>>44363077
There is no way to add yourself currently. I'll get right on that for you.
>>44363077
Added you. If you like, connect on Cockatrice right now, there are four people playing as we speak which you can spectate.
Has anyone tested Candidate yet?, I'm interested on building a deck around him.
>>44363168
There's still a small playerbase and quite a few Adversaries to test, so the best way to get playtesting done is to do it yourself. I'd be up for a few matches versus Candidate.
>>44363136
I would love to, really, but I'm sipping a cup of hot chocolate right now, the traditional last act of the Christmas Eve dinner.
To be honest, I don't know just when I'll be able to play, but I'll certainly keep my eye on this thread to keep helping with the creative process.
Also the benefits of Ananta is that he is bullshit bulky AND greatly accelerates mana. That gives you just the right combination staying power and speed to play the very best cards in the game that would otherwise be too costly to be efficient.
I love these Christmas captchas.
Laronrir, Great Oracle (x)
Adversary - Human Wizard (W)(U)
(1)(U) - Scry 2 [Modify this as you like, Hawk]
(X)(W) - Prevent X amount of Damage dealt to a creature, where X is the amount of mana spent.
{15}{8}
>>44363521
Neat card. Cheap scry is always useful. I'd say level 1-2
>>44363034
Regarding Phantasmagoria.
Yeah, I meant to include a color on the tokens but I guess I somehow forgot to do it. I'm not sure what color to make them, but I guess blue would be most fitting. Illusions, after all, even if in practice they're being generated by a thematically red ability. Since I'm going with the first version of Phantasmagoria from here on out (who is just RU), I might make them red and blue.
>>44363521
I don't think Adversaries are suppose to have creature types, but otherwise this seems alright. I'd put it at a two or maaaaybe a 3, at least in its present form. Unlimited (well, except by your mana reserves) scrying is a pretty potent ability.
Anyway, I made so they're sacrificed when they take damage instead of just having 1 toughness because I wanted to match the typical destruction clause for phantasmal things... Though admittedly, I got that wrong too, because that clause is that they get sacrificed when targeted. I'll probably change the sacrifice clause to reflect that, but keep their toughness at X rather than 1. It makes a minor difference in a few corner cases, like trample. It makes more differences when they can survive being dealt damage by other creatures in combat, obviously.
As for the other two abilities, I've decided I'm going to ditch the version of Phantasmagoria that had them. Thanks for the feedback on them anyway, though.
In case anyone's curious how Cockatrice looks, or how Adversaries look in Cockatrice, here's a screencap of the current match.
>>44364656
Uh, whoops. That post got mixed up. Everything past "Anyway, I made..." is meant to be in response to the first post, not the second one.Also it should be "made it so...".
How do we actually use the Adversaries? I download the two zips you told me to and exported them to the right folders but they aren't showing up, is there something within the application I need to do? I didn't get much sleep so I am open to the possibility that I've missed something very obvious.
>>44364775
Make sure you have Cockatrice updated.
Is there another Cockatrice folder in AppData/Local/Cockatrice? Because if there is, you need to put them in customsets and pics/CUSTOM within the second Cockatrice folder.
>>44364775
If the .rar's have been extracted into the right folders, you should be able to find them when you're searching for cards. Type 'Fina' into the box and she should come up. If that's not happening, something must have gone wrong along the way.
>>44364828
>>44364830
Got it, I had the extracted folders sitting in the folders rather the files within those folders. A dumb mistake as expected. I'll probably just try to cobble together a deck for now, might log in after a while if there's time. Got some last minute wrapping to do.
>>44364830
hey, add me, I want to see this clusterfuck.
>>44360536
>>44346658
From last thread. Following OPs comments here is the finished idea:
Grahv the Stonefist (2)
Artist: jubjubjedi
Adversary - Handsomest (BRG)
Sacrifice a creature: Untap CARDNAME
(B), (T): Each player discards a card at random.
(R), (T): Players can't gain life this turn. Damage can't be prevented this turn. CARDNAME deals 2 damage to each player.
(G), (T): Whenever a creature you control deals combat damage to an opponent this turn, it deals that much damage to each other opponent.
{22} {7}
>>44365505
Didn't read the OP properly, ignore the designer name. It was a shitty concept anyway.
>>44362942
Shitfuck, this one was so hard to find art for.
Na'Zaram, Spiral Chronolord (x)
http://possiblechameleon.deviantart.com/art/Coheed-and-Cambria-The-Afterman-Ascension-425039510
http://seansoong.deviantart.com/art/Fallen-Astronaut-307887337
http://art-zealot.deviantart.com/art/Contrition-349483623
http://www.3gb.com.mx/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/dreamhunters3.jpg (artist: Yoshitaka Amano)
Adversary – (G)(U)(B)
Hexproof, Indestructible.
(G)(U)(B):
(T), Put a Time Shift counter on Na'Zaram: Exile target creature. Return it to the battlefield during its controler's next upkeep with two +1/+1 counters.
(T), Remove a Time Shift counter: Search the library for a card and put it on the Battlefield.
(T), Remove five Time Shift counters: Skip the opponent's next turn.
{25}{12}
Now, a bit on the concept... What's exactly a 'Spiral Chronolord'?, Basically a chronomancer of the highest order. Thanks to his power, he is able to travel through space, time and even planes unimpeded despite not being a Planeswalker. Not only that, but his temporal magics have altered his own physiology, making so his body and mind experiments exponentially accelerated evolution. That's why he's 'Spiral' in the Gurren Lagann-iest of meanings, because he's constantly evolving to smash the limits of physical reality, in a ascending path that invariably leads to becoming (a) reality himself, an overmind that connects and influences all things. Thus the combination of Green (evolution), Blue (mind, time manipulation) and Black (personal improvement).
I know this one's really OP. It's definitely the most OP Adversary O will ever create. The next ones will be much more tame by comparison. Still, its likely that we'll need to do quite a few modifications to this one.
PD: I fuckin' hate Deviantart.
>>44367057
Adversaries already can't be interacted with, so it doesn't need Hexproof/Indestructible.
That said, as-is, this looks like a solid 5.
>>44367147
It really is, considering it lets you play any card for free every other turn.
The first ability also allows you to do fun stuff, like exiling your best creature, unleashing a board wipe and come next turn you'll have an even stronger pawn to wreck the opponent's shit with.
And that's not even getting on the turn skipping.
>>44365020
Gib name?, can't do otherwise.
>>44367207
Ehh, I don't think the turn skipping is too relevant. If I were to build a deck for Na'Zaram and wanted to spike it out, I would fill it with CMC 0 and 1 creatures such as Ornithopter and Memnite. T1, play creature, then exile it.
T2, drop Emrakul (or Newlamog for that ETB value).
And that's just the obvious; I'm sure there can be done better.
>>44363074
I find it funny that the best way to face this guy is not using an Adversary at all. In fact, you should make life total / starting hand {20}{7}, that way it'd only present a very slight advantage against non-adversary decks. It'd make the card more balanced while keeping it an utterly broken level 5.
>>44367255
True, that's an absolutely broken combo. Maybe I should nerf it so that its 'search a land'.
Still, maybe it'll be balanced against other LvL5s. After all there's only so many (0) cost creatures and you can only have one copy of each in this format. It'd require testing, shame the only other LvL5 I know of is that Deus. It'd be pretty pointless to test balance against that one.
>>44367398
If you change it to 'search a land' it might be a level 4.
Even with no abilities on the Adversary at all, being in three colours and staring with 12 cards is busted as hell when you consider combo decks.
>>44367330
Having playtested with Hawk, it turns out he'd just worded the card a little poorly.
The intent of Deus is something like this:
You begin the game with all Adversary cards in exile.
<The rest of the card>
He's not supposed to exile his opponent's Adversaries; rather, he's supposed to.. well.. have access to EVERY adversary.
>>44367509
Err, something like
Before the game begins, exile all Adversary cards in your deck.
Your deck may contain any number of Adversary cards.
<Rest of the card>
>>44367521
Hmm...
Before the game begins, exile all other Adversary cards in your deck.
Your deck may contain any number of Adversary cards.
>>44367509
>>44367521
>>44367560
At the beginning of the game, exile one copy of each Adversary you own.
>>44367509
>>44367521
>>44367560
>>44367851
"T: Exile all other Adversaries you control. Put an Adversary you own from outside the game *into play/into the adversary zone/command zone*."
>>44367936
Whoops. 'each other Adversary you control'
>>44363034
Alright, I made a few changes...
Ananta Seshou, Grand Omnyodo (x)
Adversary – (W)(G)(B)
Creatures you control have "T: Add one mana of any of this creature's colors to your mana pool.
{30}{3}
________________________________
Jareth, Goblin King (4)
Adversary – (R)(G)(B)
Goblins you control have +2/+0 and Haste.
Everytime you cast a Goblin spell add a Magic Dance counter to Goblin King.
(T), Remove three Magic Dance counters: Put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of target Goblin creature you control.
>>44367936
Oh snap you're right. Sideboard is perfect.
>>44367936
>>44367958
Let me try and make it clear...
Deus, the Creator (5)
Adversary – (W)(G)(U)(B)(R)
Your deck may contain any number of Adversary cards.
Before the game begins, exile all other Adversary cards in your deck.
(T): Exile all other Adversaries you control. Put an Adversary you own from outside the game into the adversary zone.
{30}{10}
Is that so?, then let me propose a small nerf.
>Your deck may contain any number of Adversary cards level 4 or less / 3 or less.
Deus should not have access to lvl5 Adversaries. If he did, he'd be automatically above every single other lvl5 and thus not balanced within his tier.
>>44368135
I can get behind that.
>>44368135
I feel like that implies you can play with a 45 card deck. Just say "T: Exile all other Adversaries you control. Put an Adversary of level 4 or lower you own from outside the game into the adversary zone."
>>44367983
One last Adversary before going to bed.
Prince Zael, Saint of Blades (2)
Adversary – (W)(R)
(3): Put target Artifact from your hand into play.
(T): Equip target Artifact to target creature.
(4)(W): Take control of target Artifact an opponent controls.
{17}{9}
Is it too powerful?, Balanced?, The abilities could certainly use better wording...
Anyways, that's 5 Adversaries from my part, Phyrexian Defector & more tomorrow.
>>44368212
Well worded, I second this.
Alright, just a few questions before I leave:
>Are you guys having fun with the format?
>What Adversaries have you tried out?
>Which are your favourites so far?
>Would you somehow improve the format?
>Would you alter any Adversary in any manner?
This looks pretty fun! It always surprises me how much more design space there is in magic.
How's this for a first try?
Goriga, Brood Matriarch (X)
Adversary - Dragon (RG)
T, RGX: Put X Red Green 1/1 dragon creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield.
T, RG: Put a Red Green 0/3 egg creature token with "at the beginning of your upkeep, put an incubation counter on this creature. T: This creature becomes a copy of target dragon creature with converted mana cost equal to or less than the number of incubation counters on this creature"
25 / 6
The second ability is pretty complex, and I'm not sure if there's a way to properly phrase it.
>>44360536
We need an Adversary list. Maybe even a guide with a small description on what its good for + advice on uses?
>>44368391
>Would you alter any Adversary in any manner?
Pic related. His first ability is completely useless since he is monoblue and therefore all of his cards are either monoblue or part blue (which includes islands).
He needs to either be dual color or to have that ability changed/removed.
>>44368391
>Are you guys having fun with the format?
Yeah, it's pretty fun. Though I have fun playing Magic of just about any form.
>What Adversaries have you tried out?
Calico, Velan, Elania, Shiva
>Which are your favourites so far?
Calico by miles. In every format, I gravitate toward cards that let me draw more cards. It's what I love to do. I play Magic to draw cards. Hnng.
>Would you somehow improve the format?
I think inherently, the format is imbalanced as shit. I haven't the foggiest clue how to make it fair, but it's fun anyway.
>Would you alter any Adversary in any manner?
Considering how batshit insane some of these adversaries are to begin with, I don't think there's too much to lose from changing the card pool to the Legacy card pool.
...
Hmm...
Yuria, Ancient Caller (3)
Adversary - Wizard
Yuria, Ancient Caller is any two colors of your choice.
You may use cards from Legacy card pool and ban list in your deck.
>>44368542
Do not forget that you can target an opponent's lands.
>>44368497
Welcome!, don't worry, your card isn't all too complex compared to some stuff in this thread. Its a pretty straightforward token generator actually. I like it tho, most likely its lvl2/lvl3.
Don't forget giving us your name in Cockatrice so that we may add you to the player list.
>>44368561
Point taken, then he's fine.
>>44368595
Awesome! To be honest, I've never used cockatrice before and the idea behind the format itself is what drew me to the thread. I'll be sure to check it out though, since this looks ludicrously fun.
I had an idea for a 3rd ability for Goriga, but I'm not sure if it can work the way I want it to.
T, RGX, sacrifice any number of creatures: Put a Red Green 0/0 legendary dragon creature token named "Goriga, Brood Matriarch" with flying onto the battlefield with a number of +1/+1 counters equal to X times the number of creatures sacrificed.
It's supposed to mirror a Devour X mechanic, but as far as I know Devour N doesn't work for tokens since they aren't cast.
Considering trying a level 5 one so we have something on the top-end of the power scale. Any existing ones so I can kind of gauge what I'm getting into?
>>44368561
>Velan
I don't know that one, mind posting the card?
>>44368793
For now we only have 2, 1 more or less finished and another still being discussed.
Deus:
>>44368135
>>44368212
Na'Zaram
>>44367057
>>44367398
>>44367479
Good luck with your lvl5, the effort will be appreciated since we need more cards to test the balance of the higher tiers.
Image credit goes to iancjw.
Triad of Strange Behavior (6)
Adversary - Clown (UR)
All Adversaries are all colors. [i](This includes Adversaries that are not in play.)[/i]
You may use cards from Unhinged and Unglued in your Adversary deck.
15 / 10
(inspired from >>44368497)
>>44368847
Sorry I took so long.
>>44369014
That looks very interesting, but I fail to see how it's inspired by Goriga. I was basing it off a "super-powered" version of Dragon Broodmother.
>>44369094
Sorry, didn't mean to press Goriga's post. >>44368561 actually inspired it
>>44369014
What's the point of making all Adversaries all colors? The restriction of color identity still applies while making decks, since that's happening outside of the game.
>>44369149
It fits with the Strange Behavior aspect of it. Plus, that's why it's a level 6
>>44368542
Target opponent's lands.
I'm making a Merfolk deck around it.
>>44368497
>
T, RG: Put a Red Green 0/3 egg creature token with "at the beginning of your upkeep, put an incubation counter on this creature. T: This creature becomes a copy of target dragon creature with converted mana cost equal to or less than the number of incubation counters on this creature"
I would word it:
RG, T: Put a red and green 0/3 Egg creature token onto the battlefield. It has "At the beginning of your upkeep, put an incubation counter on this creature." and "T: This creature becomes a copy of target dragon with converted mana cost less than or equal to the number of incubation counters on this creature."
I hope this takes off because I'm a mostly casual player and I love tribal decks as well as most of my playgroup and tribal adversaries seem to just make those decks more fun and flavorful
>>44368561
Found an image.
Artist credit: Anna Steinbauer
>>44369268
Ah, that sounds much better. Thank you anon.
How would you fix >>44368722 ?
Trying my hand at a level 5 here.
Emissary of the Maelstrom (5)
Adversary - Cody (RUG)
Spells you cast of converted mana cost 1 or greater have cascade.
If a spell you cast would cascade, you may instead reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a land card. Place that card onto the battlefield and put the rest of the cards revealed this way on the bottom of your library in a random order.
Life: 24
Hand: 7
Thoughts? If you like it, I'll go digging for a picture. Keep in mind that spells cast of cascade will have cascade themselves.
>>44368561
>>44369014
These are cool ideas, being able to use cards from outside the format is a great mechanic. How far do we take it? One that allows custom cards? Planes and Archenemy stuff? Bringing in actual vanguards?
>>44369440
That... sounds like a level 5. And would be extra ridiculous when you use it with a card that already has Cascade. Mmm, delicious.
>>44369463
Well, it's a casual format, so... whatever you can imagine people will play with/against. I think un-cards are kinda pushing it, personally.
Rogue Spymaster (3)
Adversary (UB)
T, UB: Target opponent discards a random card, then draws a card.
Every time an opponent discards a card, you may draw a card.
Every time an opponent draws a card, you may discard a card and then draw a card.
15 / 7
>>44369430
>T, RGX, sacrifice any number of creatures: Put a Red Green 0/0 legendary dragon creature token named "Goriga, Brood Matriarch" with flying onto the battlefield with a number of +1/+1 counters equal to X times the number of creatures sacrificed.
Reworded:
RGX, sacrifice any number of creatures, T: Put a red and green 0/0 legendary dragon creature token named Gorgia, Blood Matriarch onto the battlefield with flying and a number of additional +1/+1 counters equal to X times the number of creatures sacrificed this way.
>>44369534
Perfect, do you think this third ability would be too much for the card in general, or is the synergy with her first ability (the 1/1 flyers) worth it?
>>44369554
Is X equal to Gorgia's level? If so, then it would be acceptable. If not, then it would be broken since there is virtually no limitation except the tapping and sacrificing requirements.
>>44368722
>>44369430
Devour works for tokens since it's an ETB, not an on-cast. There are token creatures with devour.
>>44369592
Whoops, the X for her level was because I didn't know what the proper level should be.
The general idea is that if, say, you payed 4GR and sacrificed 4 creatures, Goriga would come out as a straight up 16/16. On further review, this is easily abusable and probably not a good idea when it also has the ability to create ludicrous numbers of cheap tokens.
>>44369499
>I think un-cards are kinda pushing it, personally.
This is why >>44369014 is a lvl 6 Adversary
>>44369619
So it could be worded as;
RGX, T: Put a Red Green 0/0 legendary dragon creature token with flying and Devour X onto the battlefield.
right?
>>44369626
Well, "probably not a good idea" can become "relatively fair" depending on what level you stick it in.
>>44369637
Yeah, I get ya.
>>44369626
If you included a static ability, such as "You may not pay more than X, where X is Goriga's level.", then it wouldn't be so bad.
Goriga sounds like an honest level 6-7 Adversary, simply because of the exponentially increasing token pumping
I have just woken up.
It's already Christmas in my timezone so I may not be able to put much work in today, but as soon as I'm available I'm going to start adding new Adversaries. Glad to see such an active thread.
>>44369653
>>44369677
>>44369677
Maybe some kind of limiter would be in order, or at the very least increase the cost of the third ability from RGX to something like RRGGXX or the like, or even just RGXX.
>>44369753
>RGX, sacrifice any number of creatures, T: Put a red and green 0/0 legendary dragon creature token named Gorgia, Blood Matriarch onto the battlefield with flying and a number of additional +1/+1 counters equal to X times the number of creatures sacrificed this way. You lose life equal to that creature's power.
Would that be appropriate?
>>44360840
>In my opinion, it's not particularly important if an Adversary violates color norms.
I had seen the previous thread, and I felt like a lot of what was going on was retarded, but that the core idea might have merit. I came into this thread to see if things might have gotten any better.
Apparently, they've gotten worse.
>>44369753
I don't think it's that strong. Certainly not a level 6-7 as >>44369677 suggests. Starting at level 3, you start seeing Calico, Shiva, and Vyndiis, after all. The highest I can see that is level 4, desu.
>>44369805
You'd be losing upwards of 10 life every time you used it; maybe just lose life equal to the number of creatures sacrificed? I still think that RGXX is more than sufficient to prevent a 20+/20+ from coming into play, and even then there are ways to deal with massive creatures like that.
>>44369626
I don't know. Keep in mind that Devour X already exists on a 5 mana creature. Also, the fact that she has to tap to create a token inherently limits that. You can pump them out reliably, but you can't flood the board and then devour them on the spot to come out swinging with a 16/16 or 25/25 your opponent didn't see coming. They'll have a chance to keep a kill spell back for it.
Of course, if you're running her I'm sure you'll also be running a lot of token production. It would probably look similar to my friend's Thromok the Insatiable deck.
In any case, I think putting double X in the cost like suggested in >>44369753
for that may be a bit much.
>>44369832
To be fair, I don't think anyone else in the thread agrees with Hawk on that point. No one has expressed agreement at least, and so far the majority of Adversaries seem to be getting made with the color pie in mind.
>>44369970
The majority of my Adversaries are made with the color pie in mind as well.
>>44360946
People are misinterpreting 'it's not particularly important if an Adversary violates color norms' as 'all Adversaries can and will violate color norms to any degree'. I simply meant that Adversaries like Ignis, which should logically be black but also sort of fit as red, are acceptable.
Shiramon as-is seems pretty busted for a level 1. I suggest putting the card on top of library instead of in hand, and in general being wary of effects that cause such direct card advantage for such little cost.
>>44370027
I would have agreed with you initially, but Shiramon has been getting beaten fairly consistently in playtesting. Being monowhite seems to keep his power in check somewhat. That said, I've only faced two Shiramon decks so far, so my opinion could easily change once I (or someone else) go up against a more formidable deck.
>>44369838
Losing life = sacrificed creatures or RGXX would probably be best, unless the Adversary grants you like 35 life (but that might make restrictions redundant, huh?)
>>44370044
How are the currently-made Adversaries all faring, playtest-wise?
Time for a balance update. These changes likely won't be implemented until the next thread is up, where they will be included in a big update along with the next wave of created Adversaries.
>One new 'vanilla' Adversary has been added: Arez, Mana Wraith
>Deus has been reworded as per request.
>Fina's starting hand size has been increased by 1.
>Luxos has been buffed considerably.
>Nemosyn's activated abilities are now formatted correctly.
>Reeve's level has been tentatively reduced to 2.
>Shiva has been balanced, and in the process, had the size of her rules text reduced even further, pushing me one step closer to suicide.
>Sigma can no longer put targeting counters on lands.
>Vyndiis has been balanced and had his level reduced to 2.
>>44370709
You may be able to infer that based on these changes.
>>44370927
I recommend using the wording for Deus here
>>44367936
with the correction here
>>44367958
It's cleaner and doesn't imply you can run a deck with less than 60 cards.
>>44370927
I assume Vyndiis is supposed to read generic, rather than colourless?
>>44371027
More or less.
I plan to alter the wording just as soon as Oath releases, at which point I'll have a better grasp on how colorless/generic mana is being treated in rules text from now on.
>>44371046
It'll still be treated the same. There's no functional change. Referring to colourless mana in costs is and always has been wrong.
>>44371122
>>44371046
'Spells your opponents cast that don't cost only colored mana cost (1) more to cast'?
>>44371167
That works for me. Any complaints?
Although with Vyndiis, it would be:
'Spells that don't cost only colored mana cost (1) more to cast', since it's important for the ability to affect him as well.
>>44371167
He doesn't have a clause restricting it to only opponents.
That said, my take on it would be
"All generic mana costs on spells are increased by {1}"
How specific can an adversary be? Could I suggest one that does spore counter shenanigans?
>>44371304
There's a Snake/Gorgon/Naga tribal one, so I think anything goes.
>>44371304
We have some incredibly specific ones already. Go ahead.
Semi-related: If you mention that you actually intend to use the proposed Adversary in Cockatrice once it's available, you'll get priority when it comes time for me to start adding new ones to the .xml. I want to encourage people to play as well as create, since the matches we've had so far have been pretty fun and will become more fun when there's a larger selection of players/decks.
Klorstiel, Planar Devourer(3-4)
Eldrazi Spells you cast cost (2) less to cast, activate this only if you control 3 or more Eldrazi.
(3)(T): Target creature you control has digest.
Adversary - Eldrazi (WUBRG)
15 / 6
>>44371895
>As long as you control three or more Eldrazi, Eldrazi spells you cast cost [2] less to cast.
>[3], [T]: Until end of turn, target creature you control gains ingest.
The activated ability is incredibly shitty, and the passive ability should probably say colourless spells instead in order to facilitate devoid spells.
>>44371895
Klorstiel, Planar Devourer(3-4)
Adversary - Eldrazi (WUBRG)
Colorless Spells you cast cost (2) less to cast, activate this only if you control 3 or more Eldrazi.
(2)(T): Target creature you control has digest and Menace
15 / 6
>>44369014
I love this meme.
Seriously now, I like the concept. Problem is that it'd be difficult to implement. I don't think Cockatrice is able to manage the bizarre effects of Un sets. That said this card would be A-ok for physical playing.
>>44372074
Ingest is more of an Ulamog mechanic. Maybe you'd be better off giving it an Oblivion Sower-like mechanic. I'll get back to you later with more ideas.
A challenge for you all:
Can anyone present a potential exploit, loop or general gamebreak that would be possible with this alternate version of Fina? I imagine this would be quite a controversial effect, but it's not entirely without precedent, so I'd like to see if anyone can identify an exploit rather than just ask for general opinions.
Does Pithing Needle affect Adversaries?
>>44372074
Klorstiel, Planar Devourer (3)
Adversary - Eldrazi (U)(B)(R)(G)
Colorless Spells you cast cost (2) less to cast, activate this ability only if you control 3 or more Eldrazi.
(4)(T): Exile target land.
{25}{6}
Eldrazi so far are never white. That's why I removed it. Also they are very bulky, hence the boost on lives.
This said I don't like the name. Klorstiel, that's an angel's name and an eldrazi has no business having a name like that.
>>44372465
>balanced
Hezornak?
>>44369637
>level 6
Dude, level 5 is already jumping the shark-tier. The format is like two days old and we're already trying to one-up the super most highest special elite gods.
>>44372587
I like that name.
Also I may just try printing these 'lil shits, making a couple decks and bringing them to my local game shop. Who knows, maybe it'll catch on.
>>44372622
No one ever said the lvl 6 Adversary had to be included with the rest. I'm not even expecting it to be used since it includes Un-sets, and I'm the one that came up with that Adversary.
>>44367057
Updating Na'Zaram.
Na'Zaram, Spiral Chronolord (5)
Adversary – (G)(U)(B)
(T), Put a Time Shift counter on Na'Zaram: Exile target creature. Return it to the battlefield during its controler's next upkeep with two +1/+1 counters.
(T), Remove a Time Shift counter: Search the library for a noncreature card and put it on the Battlefield tapped.
(T), Remove three Time Shift counters: Skip the opponent's next turn.
{21}{12}
I nerfed the second ability and life total somewhat while boosting the third skip. It should be more balanced now.
>>44368320
Feedback pls?, This might just be my favourite Adversary that I've created.
>>44368391
This should be added tp the OP really. Feedback is vital at this stage of development.
>>44368497
>>44368722
Gureito daze. I wouldn't add that third ability, the card would be far too wordy and powerful.
Have in mind that your adversary should be the core of your deck which you build around, but that shouldn't monopolize the entire game, even at the higher levels.
>>44369440
I like this one. I'm not familiar with the cascade mechanic, but it seems simple yet powerful, which is always great.
Still, make it so the ability is 'the first spell you cast each turn has cascade'. It should be balanced within its tier then. Also maybe give it a name besides a title.
>>44369524
I like this one too, its quite versatile and lends itself pretty well to deck building. It really needs a better name though. 'Rogue Spymaster' is as bland as it gets.
>>44369637
>>44369677
>>44369836
>>44372622
>>44369191
No level 6s and above at all. 5 MUST be as high as it gets. Otherwise things will stupidly get out of hand.
Design your cards with that in mind, please.
>>44369014
Neat, but remove the All Adversaries are all colours part, it may fit the theme, but it serves no purpose. Also make the card (W)(U)(B)(R)(G) so it can use ANY Un card and lower the level to 5.
>>44369832
Give it time. Now we are running wild, but later we'll run tests and adjust the rules & adversaries so that there's balance within tiers.
>>44370019
Yeah, you gotta keep dat pie in mind. Otherwise cards will suck. Although when I create mine I normally assign colours based on the concept behind AND then base the abilities on a combo of the Adversary's concept and its colour's capabilities.
>>44372465
>>44372587
Hezornak, Planar Devourer (4)
Adversary - Eldrazi (U)(B)(R)(G)
Colorless Spells you cast cost (2) less to cast, activate this ability only if you control 3 or more Eldrazi.
(4)(T): Exile target land.
(4)(B)(B)(T): Both players sacrifice all creatures with converted mana cost (3) or less.
{25}{6}
I took the liberty of adding a Consume the Meek ability. That should make it a really solid lvl4.
To anyone who feels up to it, I'm awake and ready to play with level 1, 2 or 3 decks. Add me as spikeof2010, since everyone else on the team is asleep.
Govaran, Phyrexian Defector (2)
Adversary – (B)(R)
(B)(T): Opponent reveals his hand. Choose a card from there. Opponent discards it.
(3)(R), Add an Insurgence counter to Govaran, (T): Gain control of target creature until end of turn. Untap that creature. It gains haste until end of turn.
Remove X Insurgence counters: Gain control of target creature with converted mana cost X.
{16}{6}
>>44373298 I had a similar idea for a BR Phyrexia based Adversary.
Chivorom, Phyrexian Architect (3-4)
Adversary - (B)(R)
All colored mana costs are now Phryrexian mana costs of the same color.
(5)(T), You do not take any damage from self inflicted damage until end of turn.
15/5
>>44373447
what the fuck are you going on about and go back to tumblr
>>44373430
That's hardly (B)(R) though, preventing damage belongs to (W) in the color chart and transmuting mana costs seems like a (U) thing. Maybe make it (U)(W)?, That way they are polar opposites too and there's room for both.
Other than that, they have completely different abilities.
>>44373298
I forgot, mana cost of Govaran's abilities are all Phyrexian mana costs of the same colour.
Besides that, it'd be pretty cool to see these two duke it out, the Phyrexian handler, the mastermind vs the defector, the one who escaped his grasp.
>>44373202
I'm not Hawk but
>>44373629
Whoops, errata'd
>>44373640
That's really, really good, but maybe you can give it a holden Hedron effect like pic related?
Then I'd make sweet love to it.
>>44373640
Oh, change 'Colorless spells' to 'Elfdrazi spells'. Otherwise it'd be stepping on Shiva's turf.
>>44373697
It needs to include devoid spells.
>>44373676
I'll try.
>>44373721
Then maybe nerf it to (1)?, we don't want lvl4 cards outright outclassing lvl3s after all. They should have a niche among the higher tiers.
>>44373765
Is this better?
Hell, I'll do some more while I have time. Sorry for spamming the threads with edits, post some more with all more tweaks at the end.
Any requests? Those with art get priority usually. Consider it a Christmas present.
>>44373779
Perfect.
Final Draft, fixed the one little spacing bug.
>>44373868
Oh, it's good to see someone else using the template! Especially as I'm a bit preoccupied myself. Nice work.
>>44373821
Nah, no need to apologize. It's stuff that needs to get done, and besides it's not like you're posting so many edits that it's flooding the thread.
I'd actually request mine, but it's still WIP so there's not really much of a point. Thanks for the offer, though. Hope you and everyone else in the thread have a merry Christmas!
>>44373896
Yep, I got your back.
>>44369524
Planning on doing this next.
How does "Izranett, High Spymaster" sound for a name?
>>44373930
>How does "Izranett, High Spymaster" sound for a name?
Beautiful
>>44373930
I'm not too keen on it. Izranett is fine, but the High part...
How about 'Izranett, Double Agent'?, after all it causes your oponent to draw cards too.
>>44373821
Well, How about you start from the top?, There were some from last thread that were reposted due to the thread ending.
I'd appreciate it if you did >>44367983, art is here >>44362070 and here >>44362521
Ahoy, here's another card for ye.
>>44374005
Just a note, name is 'Jareth the Goblin King'.
>>44374009
It looks fuckin' gureito daze.
>>44374009
Awesome, is it really a level 3 though? Maybe a level 2? I may just be really underestimating the power of its activated ability.
>>44374005
Will do, how does this look so far?
>>44374063
>>44374063
It's really good. Maybe a darker shade of yellow like pic related?
That one came out really, really good.
>>44374160
Is this any better? I fixed the artist's credit, by the way.
![3_DeathToWhisperers_GuidoKuip_2014[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/5g2bdSh.jpg "3_DeathToWhisperers_GuidoKuip_2014[1].jpg")
Goriga, Brood Matriarch
Artist: Guido Kuip
Adversary (RG)
RGX, T: Put X Red Green 1/1 dragon creature tokens with flying onto the battlefield.
RG, T: Put a Red Green 0/3 egg creature token onto the battlefield. It has "At the beginning of your upkeep, put an incubation counter on this creature." and "T: This creature becomes a copy of target dragon with converted mana cost less than or equal to the number of incubation counters on this creature. Remove all incubation counters from this creature."
25 / 6
For the second ability, I was thinking of splitting it into two activated abilities and one static ability:
>
RG, T: Put a Red Green 0/3 dragon creature token named "Dragon Egg" onto the battlefield with defender.
Remove all incubation counters from target creature: That creature becomes a copy of target dragon creature you control with converted mana cost equal to or less than the number of incubation counters removed this way.
At the beginning of you upkeep, put an incubation counter on all creatures named "Dragon Egg" that you control.
>
This second version seems to be a bit wordy though, and I'm not sure if it's better off keeping it with all the abilities being on the token itself.
>>44372453
Probably no, because it's in a different zone all the time. Also that wouldn't be fun.
How does everyone feel about this?
Exxytat, Eternal Sliver {x}
Adversary {WURBG}
Sliver spells you cast cost (1) less.
(3)(T): Target creature you control is a sliver in addition to other types.
{15}{5}
>>44374185
Its excellent. 10/10.
Could you do this next >>44367057 >>44373027 ?, try using The Afterman's album cover for art. Also a small revision of the second ability:
>Remove a Time Shift counter, (T): Search your library for target Land or Planeswalker card and put it on the battlefield tapped.
>>44374294
I prefer the wording of the first example. The second is far too long and more confuse imho.
>>44374380
I really like it, but I'd have it be:
>Sliver spells you cast cost (1) less.
>Target creatures you control are slivers in addition to other types.
Worded like that its easily lvl4-5, considering how potent Slivers can be.
>>44374380
PD: Raise life total to 21 and hand to 7. I request this because Sliver leaders always are 7/7. 7 lives would be unreasonable, so triple that.
Now it definitely is a lvl5 imo.
>>44374461
Was a bit hard to squish on there.
Pitching an idea
>New Born, Young God (x)
>Adversary – (WUBRG)
>Creatures you control have protection from all colors.
>You gain 2 lives during your upkeep step
>{5}{5}
>>44374562
Newborn*
Anyways, yes or nay?
Duke, The Immortal Martyr {2}
Adversary {Mono W}
At the beginning of your upkeep draw two cards and gain 2 life
You cannot win unless you are at exactly 1 life at the beginning of your upkeep
{20}{4}
>>44374537
Popping in to say that you'll generally want the line spacing in the rules text to be equivalent to the font size. You can adjust line spacing in the Character tab.
>>44374562
>All creatures you control have indestructable++
This sounds very unfun for anyone that isn't red. And even then. I'd probably make it some type of stipulation or some shit.
>>44374581
Yikes, that's hard. Very hard. Also very easy for your opponent to decide when to attack.
>>44374595
>>44374600
This any better then? Smoothed the picture up a bit also.
>>44374600
>Yikes, that's hard. Very hard. Also very easy for your opponent to decide when to attack.
That's what makes it challenging and unique. It makes for manipulating fog effects
>>44374606
Tamiyo on turn two?
>>44374619
It is level 5. I didn't make the card though. Just made the art for it.
>>44374635
Yeah there's higher level play and then there's fucking broken. make it take two time shift counters and make it land and artifact then lower the play level to 4
Last update for today, heading off somewhere for family, should be here later tonight or tomorrow.
>>44374606
>>44374660
err let me elaborate
Na'Zaram, Spiral Chronolord {4}
Adversary {U}{B}{G}
Tap +1: blink opponent's creature +2/+2
Tap -2: Search for creature or artifact
Tap -3: Time walk
>>44374687
err
>>44374686
das good thanks mang. Have a nice christmas
>>44374537
Hmm, let me reword the abilities so that the text is shorter and looks better.
Put a Time Shift counter on Na'Zaram (T): Exile target creature. Return it to the battlefield during its controler's next upkeep.
>Remove two Time Shift counters, (T): Search your library for target Planeswalker card and put it on the battlefield tapped.
Remove three Time Shift counters (T): Skip the opponent's next turn.
It should fit better now. Could you approach the image so that we get a closer take of his chest and head similar to pic in >>44368542 ?, maybe also make the colours brighter?
>>44374660
Also yeah, two counters rather than one. But no more changes before playtesting. Then we can decide if it needs further nerfs or if it should be moved to lvl4.
Thank you for your hard work!
>>44375058
Might work better with a "Choose one" wording on both abilities?
>>44375179
Good call.
>>44373868
But what if there are more than two players?
>>44375058
>>44375263
You do realize that putting a +1/+1 counter on a creature will remove a -1/-1 counter from it if any are present and vice versa, right?
>>44375468
I'm aware of this, yes.
(I didn't design Azchiti.)
Felith, the Barrage (4)
Adversary {U}{R}
Your instant and sorcery spells have flashback.
>>44375488
Flashback needs a cost, m8.
>>44375488
...Inevitably, someone's gonna do something like this but with Storm.
Oh God.
>>44375496
Your instant and sorcery spells gain flashback. Their flashback costs are equal to their mana costs.
I'm aware that Spike already created Ananta, but I thought I'd make an 'official' version so that all the card images are uniform. I've also changed the effect slightly, but the utility of the card should be intact. If you'd prefer it be switched back to the original wording, let me know.
Now then, it's time for an update on the status of the remaining Adversaries from the first thread.
>Gladyn
Not sure if the creator still wants this one done. Let me know if you do and we can discuss making her a bit more exciting.
>Groth
Awaiting approval of proposed changes.
>Relida
Awaiting approval of proposed changes.
>Angelica
Awaiting revision.
>Jezabell
The second and third abilities are fine, but I feel the first ability needs to change so as not to be too similar to Velan. Let me know if you're still interested in this Adversary and we can discuss a possible revision.
>>44375488
Sure is a shame instant and sorcery spells can't have flashback otherwise this would be neat.
Toratol, the Thunderous Stampede (2)
Adversary (G)
All creatures you control have trample.
Whenever a creature you control does combat damage to a player, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature.
20 / 6
Does mono-green need some love?
>>44375587
Why not?
>Jezabell
I take back what I said in my last post, Jezabell's first ability has actually changed slightly since the first thread. However, we don't seem to have reached a consensus on exactly how she functions (whether she uses siphon counters, or spends (W)(B) to apply the effect to one creature for a turn, or if the effect is automatically applied to all creatures, etc). I'll need you to post one more time with some finalized rules text before I can move forward on this one.
>Phantasmagoria
Same thing, need you to clear the air with some finalized rules text. Mostly for my convenience this time.
>Jareth
Post an image and I'll make it for you.
>Laronrir
Post an image and I'll make it for you.
>Grahv
Sorry, I didn't notice you before writing my last post. Will make next.
>>44375639
Flashback is an ability that only functions when something's a card, not when it's a spell.
>>44376071
Oh, nice catch. Cards, then.
>Na'Zaram
Sorry, but being able to drop Blightsteel Colossus from your library to the battlefield on turn 3 is never going to be acceptable.
>Prince Zael
Post an image and I'll make it for you.
>Goriga
I like this one a lot. Post an image and I'll make it for you, but the tokens are going to become Drakes instead of Dragons. I'm aware that Drakes are typically a blue thing, but there are too many dragon-based effects that are balanced by the generally high mana cost of dragon creatures. Weenie dragon tokens would be disastrous, so we need to swap that type out for something more manageable.
>Triad of Strange Behaviour
I'm not opposed to adding this, but it will be level 5 rather than 6, the 'all colors' ability will be removed, and I'll probably get to it later than the others.
>Emissary
Post an image and I'll make it, although it may have to undergo serious changes later.
>Rogue Spymaster/Izranett
I can't see myself adding this in officially unless you revamp the rules text to be much more intuitive.
>Hezomak
Probably going to clean up Spike's version a little and add it in. You might have been able to make it as a level 3 if it were 'cost 1 less' rather than 'cost 2 less'
>Govaran
I'm surprised you were pitching this as a level 2. That discard ability seems far too oppressive to me, and the tap ability is arguably even worse. This would be a level 5 as is.
>Chivorom
Post an image and I'll make it for you. May want to consider tweaking the color identity though.
>Exxytat
Absurdly powerful, but if you're aiming for level 5 then I guess that doesn't really matter.
>New Born
This is a bit too crazy for my liking. Again, if you're okay with being level 5, we can run with it, but I would much rather you adjust the effect to be less overwhelming for the other player.
>Duke
Post an image and I'll make it for you, but I have a feeling this one will be all over the place.
>Felith
Repost this with the fixed rules text, an image and all the other required card details and I'll make it.
>Toratol
Post an image and I'll make it. Might be level 3, though.
Okay, that's a LOT of Adversaries to work through. Hold off on proposing any new ones for now, everybody.
Once again, if you're actually playing Adversary on Cockatrice with us (and you make me aware of this fact), your Adversaries will be the first to be added.
>>44376152
>Goriga...
Fair anough, what do you think the second token should be? Stay as an egg, make it drake?
Also, pic is at >>44374294
>>44376187
Felith, the Barrage (4)
Adversary {U}{R}
Instant and sorcery cards in your graveyard have flashback. Their flashback costs are equal to their mana costs.
{10}{7}
>>44376262
Oh and artist credit Brittany Jackson
>>44376152
I think for a level 5, that kind of turn 3 play sounds somewhat weak.
>>44376214
Here you go. I made some other changes, so read it carefully and let me know if you're okay with them.
>>44376262
I suspect someone will correct the wording of this effect at some point, but here you go.
>>44376376
Looks good, except for that last bit.
It should be "... less than or equal to the number of incubation counters released this way"
Otherwise, you'll have to word it like this.
"T: this creature becomes a copy of target dragon creature with converted mana cost equal to or less than the number of incubation counters on this creature. Remove all incubation counters from this creature."
>>44375603
Me likey. How about a higher life total?, Green stuff and tramplers ARE bulky after all.
>>44365505
Here you go.
>>44376539
Whoops. And here I thought I was being clever. I'll fix that in a moment.
>>44376539
Done.
>>44376710
Perfect, I'll have to see how she actually plays when I get back from vacation.
>>44376767
The match would be heavily skewed in Goriga's favor, but I would looove to play against her as Fina sometime.
>>44376660
Just out of curiosity, is this appropriate power level for rank 2? I would have pegged it as 3 if I had made it, but I might be misunderstanding how these ranks are suppose to stack up against each other.
>>44376830
Grahv's abilities target all players, including the one using Grahv, so it sort of balances itself. The only ability that doesn't is the green one, which has no use in 1v1 matches.
Depending on what playtesting shows us, he could go up to 3 or even right down to 1, but I think 2 is a very safe bet to begin with.
Why don't these just go in the command zone? Why invent a new zone?
>>44376954
This was mentioned before.
It was basically done to prevent complaints. People are very particular about the existing MTG rules, so fabricating a seperate but functionally identical zone seemed like it might prevent unnecessary bickering.
If the existence of the adverse zone is more controversial than arguably improper use of the command zone, then I'll switch over to using the command zone instead.
>>44376954
Because they don't come out of the command zone like commanders do.
>>44375568
>>44375843
>>44376152
>Ananta Sesha
Yeah, official Ananta is great. I got a boner for using the right keywords.
>Jareth
Well, I did post an image, which Spike used to make a card, see >>44362521 >>44374128 ?
>Na'Zaram
Yeah, maybe I'll change it to 'search a card from your library and put it on your hand'. Would that be acceptable?
>Prince Zael
Hold on, I'll go search a pic.
>Govaran
You really think its THAT powerful?, Maybe the discard needs somewhat of a nerf, but the red ability is just an Act of Treason effect with extra cost to compensate. How would you balance it?
>New Born
It was intended as a lvl5 but I don't know if it was such a good idea anymore. If I go through with it I'm nerfing it.
>>44377004
>>44376993
The command zone isn't just for Commanders.
Emblems and Vanguard cards also exist in the command zone. I believe Scheme and Plane cards do as well, but don't quote me on that.
It's not improper.
>>44377037
>Ananta
Just bear in mind that the version of Ananta I posted would no longer be able to tap creatures to pay for abilities, just spells. That's the big change.
>Jareth
Oh, sorry, I didn't see that. Unfortunately, that image isn't big enough to fill the required space in my template.It's also super distracting.
>Na'Zaram
With that change, I would accept it as a level 5. If you wanted it to even be considered for level 4, you'd need to pay 5 time shift counters to activate the third effect, and even then I'd probably cripple your starting life to balance it.
>Govaran
Honestly, the second ability would need to cost (6)(R) at the least. When abilities can be consistently activated every turn, they need to have significantly higher mana costs than single-cast equivalents to compensate.
>>44377142
Alright then, we'll be using the command zone from now on.
I'm not sure how to use the template, so I just used MSE to create a few Adversaries. The wording isn't necessarily the most appropriate one, but I believe it works.
>Maha-Kalpa
Yes, Green. Since the effects don't strictly need to be in color, I decided to make it Green to make it as little exploitable as possible. Although it was originally Black. I don't think I'd make it White, it has too much exile.
>Morghul
Delve was a last second addition to make it more interesting than "Your starting life total is 60" (and thus raised it from Level 1 or 2 to 4). If you didn't notice, the starting life total and starting hand don't matter that much, because: 1) Your life total is based on your library, so it could as well as have been 0 and the result would be the same; 2) Drawing a card effectively makes you lose 1 life (of course, 1 out of 60 is less than 1 out of 20).
>Kthurak
"After your first turn put two baby Nemesis of Reason tokens onto the battlefield. Also, you may cast those cards. But only with colorless mana."
The only problem I see with it is that, after 6 hits, your opponent is left without cards in library, and they'd lose the game the next time they'd draw a card.
>>44377218
M8 you gotta keep things in perspective of their levels.
>>44377218
>Ananta
Oh, I thought 'Spells' included creature ones. Maybe that's fine, but it'd require playtesting to see if its balanced within lvl3. If its not maybe we'll move it down to lvl2 or revert it to the previous wording.
>Jareth
I can go find another pic, but fuck, it'll be hard. I had to browse through like 300 pics in Deviantart before finding this one.
>Na'Zaram
It's settled then. Its supposed to be a lvl5 so we'll keep the Time Walk as it is until its playtested.
>Govaran
That seems fine, just make the cost be Phyrexian mana and up the life total. Maybe this one would be better off as a level 3?, What do you think?
Also my attempt to balance Newborn
Newborn, Young God (5)
Adversary – (WUBRG) / (X)
All creatures you control have protection from all colors.
{5}{5}
>>44377888
I thought about them a little more and tweaked Morghul and reworked Kthurak. The latter should now be a level 2, if not 1. Still not sure I'm pleased with it, though.
>>44377888
I like the first two a lot, Kthurak, not so much. Just one thing, the 'You can't loose the game as log as you have cards in your library' clause is pretty pointless since you have as many lives as you have cards. Remove it to make it less wordy. And more aesthetically pleasing.
>>44378279
I changed 60 starting life to 0, as seen >>44378160, because I noticed your life total wouldn't change whenever you draw a card, meaning it isn't reliable. Without the clause, you'd lose the game if you hit 0 life, because I'm using "Whenever" instead of "If" clauses, because I found them less wordy.
However, I made the changes, and I'll let other people decide. In addition, I updated Kthurak's art with the new colorless mana symbol and Eldrazi frame. I must say, it isn't turning out as expected either. I guess I could scrape the idea and recycle the remainders in two different cards. One that germinates, another that steals.
>>44378279
>>44378469
The clause of 'You can't loose the game as log as you have cards in your library' does matter because there are ways to lose the game aside from life lose and decking out. In its current form for example, Morghol prevents you from losing by being tossed through a Door to Nothingness. Whether or not that's the way you want it to be can be debated, but it DOES make a difference in small corner cases like that.
Now, on a related note, there are a few cards in Magic with similar effects that prevent you from losing the game, such as Platinum Angel. But as far as I know, those effects always specify that you can't lose the game and your opponent can't win the game. That suggests the Morghul's current wording prevents you from losing but doesn't prevent your opponent from winning. If your opponent puts 100 counters on a Helix Pinnacle for example, they would win but you would be prevented from losing. I have no idea how that works, but it's probably not the way you want it to work. Unfortunately, fixing it just makes him even more wordy.
>>44375488
NOOOOOOO
>>44375488
>Felith, the Barrage (4)
>Adversary {U}{R}
>Your instant and sorcery spells have flashback.
You may only cast flashback spells during main phase
>>44375603
>Toratol, the Thunderous Stampede (2)
>Adversary (G)
>All creatures with power 5 or greater you control have trample.
>Whenever a creature you control does combat damage to a player, put a +1/+1 counter on that creature.
>20 / 6
