Trust me, I'm Tzeentch, editon.
HHG FAQ - http://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
HHG RULES - https://mega.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!EVh0GZZS
Previous thread >>44085919
>>44130659
>Trust me, I'm Tzeentch, editon.
Incoming "Magnus did nothign wrong"
>>44130704
Does being played the fool count as being wrong?
>>44130769
Did it happen once or twice?
Fourth for Fulgrim did nothing wrong
>>44130880
Not perfect enough.
>“Unless you’ve read Paradise Lost you don’t get it. The whole Horus Heresy is just a parody of the fall of Lucifer as described by Milton.” -Rick Priestly
discuss
>>44130944
I thought it was a combination of a lot of things already.
3000 points Iron Warriors list:
hammer of olympia rite
>warsmith with arteficer armor, void harness, combimelta, paragon blade, iron halo, servo arm
>master of signal with arteficer armor
>5 cataphractii terminators, 2 with lighting claws, 3 with chainfist, heavy flamer
>10 tacs, extra close combat weapons, vox, rhino with dozer blade and bolter, sergeant with arteficer armor, power fist and melta bomb
>10 tacs, extra close combat weaponsvox, rhino with dozer blade and bolter, sergeant with arteficer armor, power fist and melta bomb
>20 tacs, vox, vexilia, extra close combat weapons, sergeant with arteficer armor, power fist, melta bomb and combiplasma
>10 tank hunter veterans, 2 meltas, melta bombs, vox, vexilia, sergeant with combimelta, power fist and arteficer armor
>vindicator, armored ceramite and dozer blade
>contemptor talon: 3 contemptors, havoc launchers, kheras assault cannon and chainfist with tl bolter
>land raider phobos, heavy bolter, armored ceramite, dozer blade
>10 iron havocs, missile launchers
good enough?
>>44130944
not much to discuss, considering he wrote it
The current re-telling, or rather the current two simultaneous-but-slightly-different-re-tellings aren't, though. They're an unintentional parody of the original parody.
>>44130997
That's a lot of marines without any means of transportation, and that phobos is a significant amount of eggs to put in one basket. I'd think about dropping something--maybe the Vindicator?--to let you diversify a little.
>>44130659
Pls help me teegee, I'm stuck between either Iron Hands and Death Guard and want to know what's funner to play; footslogging marines slowly advancing to assault or outflanking vindicators and everything in a tank?
>>44131125
Play Death Guard, Iron Hands aren't nearly as cool.
>>44131048
Isn't that mostly the state of all GW IP's now though?
Am I missing something or are Lernaean terminators just scoring termies that can't take lightning claws?
>>44131125
Pretty easy choice if you ask me. Do you like tanks or infantry?
>>44130704
>>44130769
Tzeentch was using Magnus, and Magnus was the fool.
>>44131338
I like both just REALLY hate Drop-pods
>>44131352
Wasn't mostly everyone involved in the Horus Heresy a fool due to the fuckery of the Chaos gods?
>>44131191
>“To me the background to 40K was always intended to be ironic,” he said.
>“The fact that the Space Marines were lauded as heroes within Games Workshop always amused me, because they’re brutal, but they’re also completely self-deceiving. The whole idea of the Emperor is that you don’t know whether he’s alive or dead. The whole Imperium might be running on superstition. There’s no guarantee that the Emperor is anything other than a corpse with a residual mental ability to direct spacecraft.
>“It’s got some parallels with religious beliefs and principles, and I think a lot of that got missed and overwritten.”
This interview man.
[plugging his new game] It’s a game with a future, which I don’t think 40K is.”
based priestly.
>>44131329
Normal Terminator Squads also have Implacable Advance (ie. they score too).
But the Lernaeans have some heavier weapon options (Conversion Beamer...) and have superior weapon skill (WS5 vs WS4).
The differences aren't vast, but they're a fluffy AL unit, rather than a generic one.
Odd that they selected Cataphractii though, I'd imagine Tartaros Pattern suits making more sense, as they're faster more agile suits, despite the slightly weaker save.
Your only CC options the axes, rather than the usual smattering of Thunder Hammers, Power Fists and Chain Fists.
>>44131363
Infantry will be much easier to model, transport, and play with if that is a factor. DG will also have the potential to look much, much nicer, but are also much harder to paint. IH have a lot of easy details with the cog trim (most of which will be hidden/wasted on plain tanks that require brass etch and custom doors), and also have an incredibly easy paintjob if you are going for simple black instead of some kind of dark grey. Like Necron-tier "spray black, silver details, wash, weathering".
>>44131434
That's always the view I had of the setting.
It's also why I ended up liking Space Wolves more than he over chapters for being more about heroism and not drinking all of the Imperium 40kool aid. The Norse stuff is also a huge reason for my fondness as well.
>>44131434
You can't trust someone who had a mullet and mained Chaos.
>>44131535
Will anyone really care if my volkites are combi bolters and my plasma blaster is a heavy flamer?
I would take the current franchise over this "muh satirical nostalgia" garbage any day. A lot of you faggots probably didn't even play back then or were too young/blinded by nostalgia to remember properly, but the models were SHIT, the model range was SHIT, and the wait between releases or updates were SHIT.
Today we actually have tons of amazing models and content to work with. Who cares if it gets too edgy or takes itself too seriously? How is "too edgy" even a fucking complaint about WAR FUCKING HAMMER. Same faggots would say Judge Dredd is okay too despite being edgemaster 9000 just because it's more satirical.
>>44131784
>Do people really care about WYSIWYG
Sometimes, but usually no.
>Will anyone really care about this bullshit I'm trying to pull?
Well the choices you made are stupid as fuck and look nothing like what you're trying to count them as, so I'd say you're more on the side of "wrong, what the fuck are you doing you dumb faggot" than "whatever who cares about WYSIWYG".
>>44131828
I think people are more nostalgic about the fluff and GW as a more open company back in the day.
I can't say I'm thrilled about where the Warhammer Fantasy art design has gone in the last few years, though.
>>44131784
If you talk it over with your opponent beforehand, I doubt it'll be too much of an issue.
However, I'd recommend investing in some Calivers for the Termis then, either FW (now with hands on the gun) or Chinaman editions.
The axes are simply power weapons I believe, so those can be swords or whatever, as long as they're not Claws or Fists.
And give them a slightly different paint job than you would the generic termis. These are AL elite units, not just a normal group of terminators.
>>44131854
I'll choose to make the betrayal terminators have more options in the box I guess
>>44131854
I would say that it's more important for tournaments where people wants clear cut presentation. However, it's always more fun having the real deal on the tabletop.
>>44131770
If Horus and or Erebus had a mullet would things gone differently?
>>44131979
Probably, but instead Magnus is bald and therefor evil and kicks of his own Heresy.
>>44131979
What if Horus had a goatee?
>>44132009
At least most of the traitor primarchs would be bald leaving only Curze and Fulgrim with hair.
>>44132058
Then he couldn't have been trusted in the first place.
>>44131918
No faggot you will appreciate paying an extra $100 for accuracy on five models you already own and you will fucking like it
>>44131918
Going the other way actually isn't as bad.
Saying a combi-bolter is a volkite is easier to remember and less strange than saying a ribbed, volkite caliver is a stubby combi-bolter. The way you asked the question made it sound you were going the other way around.
And it does matter, especially since people are more lenient if the gear you're trying to use as a proxy is the default gear you get.
>>44131909
>The axes are simply power weapons I believe, so those can be swords or whatever, as long as they're not Claws or Fists.
This was changed over 3 years ago where have you been. He only has a sword, fist, and chainfist options if he's using plastic.
>>44130997
Just a few things.
Why do you have cataphractii instead of Tyrants? Tyrants are beastly.
Why do your tactical sergeants have artificer armour, power fists and melta bombs? If you stripped them all off, you could save a shitload of points.
You have a load of foot marines, not enough punch and not enough toys. Add more siege stuff.
>>44132154
To be fair larnaer can have fists and chains, it's just the guns that are the proxies. Got the cataprachtii part fine
>>44131352
You are tearing me apart, Leman!
>>44131918
Get out your knife, your bitz box, and get to work. Or at least grab something that doesn't look just like something else a unit of termies could take. Like gravguns or something.
>>44132154
Yeah, nevermind me, misread that little note on power weapons. It's just that you're free to chose any type for the same cost, not that they all count as the same. My bad.
You can make a plasma blaster out of plastic plasma guns which everyone should have anyway.
Volkite is a bit harder.
>>44132296
BRING BACK OLD POWER WEAPON RULES
IF XENOS CAN HAVE AP2 ON EVERY GUN WE SHOULD HAVE AP2 POWER WEAPONS
>>44132321
Yeah, I kinda liked it better when they kept it simple.
>>44132302
Actually that's a good idea, but I was hoping to save my plasma rifles to make a support squad at some point, or is that dumb?
My other idea was that the plastic plasma pistols are quite long, could two of those on a combi chassis look cool?
>>44132321
I don't mind AP3 power weapons so much as the forced homogenization ruining conversion opportunities. People don't even know what the fuck half my power weapons are supposed to be these days, and I want to be able to equip my HQ with an axe without getting stuck with unwieldy because Khorne.
>>44132380
Actually new idea: replace the fire spouts on the heavy flamer with two plasma pistol barrels? Would be a cool underslung heavy weapon
>>44130997
Make the termies Tyrants, drop the land raider, replace the tank hunter vets with an equal value in points of iron havoks (who can do the job almost as well/better depending on how many las cannons get mixed in), drop the melta bombs from the sergeants if they have fists, drop the vexilia and the combit plas, take out the havok launchers and use the points saved to buy either artillery tanks or thud rapiers. I don't want to tell you how to do your job, Criticism not withstanding, but if your playing iron warriors without at least one basilisk or medusa then your doing it wrong
these books are so good
curze tearing shit up
>>44131784
With the dudes I play with no one is really that anal about WYSIWYG so long as you make it very clear what weapons are suppose to be, like a guard melta vet squad with a mixed weapons representing meltaguns is a no no, but if everyone has flamers or plasma and you make it clear that they're all suppose to be meltas then no biggy
>>44132321
I'm really more annoyed that they based the psychic powers rules on the WHFB ones.
>>44132380
"I need these plasma rifles for actual infantry" isn't dumb. If you don't have enough plasma rifles you can ask for free ones from other players or buy a bunch on eBay, they go for pennies. 40k grav, melta, and FW weapons are the expensive bits. Plastic 40k plasma is cheap and common because it's found everywhere and nobody uses all of them.
>>44132446
That sounds cool, assuming the plasma tip fits in the spot of one flamer barrel. Seems like it would be wider, and putting them side by side would look cool but might be too wide for the weapon body. You going to leave some plasma coils showing?
>>44132701
I actually went with the combi idea. The plasma pistols were a little small so I added the melta barrel and flipped it upside down so it looks like it has vents on top.
Looks a bit orky but it definitely isn't going to be mistaken for anything else.
"What the hell is that?" Is a question I can answer.
Pardon the awful lighting
>>44131909
>alpha legion
>painting an elite unit differently to make it stand out
You are no son of Alpharius. Unless you're double-rusing me and are actually Alpharius trying to look dumb so people think he isn't Alpharius.
Or is it the Omegon Triple Alpharius Ruse?
>>44132302
What does a plasma blaster even look like?
>>44132816
>those mold lines
>>44132857
It's a really fat plasma gun apparently
>>44132816
That's ghetto as fuck but i'm still in love.
>>44132873
Holy shit I didn't notice them until I took the pic. See what I mean, this lighting is killing me
>>44132881
It's bringing me back in touch with my inner 13 year old making dumb as fuck space marines all those years ago
>>44132816
It does have a certain charm to it.
Are 5 justaerins in a landraider too many for a 2000 point game
>>44132915
I'm officially naming this termie Moe
>>44132857
Plasma blasters are storm plasma guns.
![$_3[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/SHcRLrs.jpg "$_3[1].jpg")
>>44132857
basically two plasma guns welded together with a shared set of coils.
>>44130944
The basic idea is, but it's more than that now with all the Novels and stuff FW has put out the fluff has expanded to be more than just a parody.
desu Rick Priestly probably thinks 30k is good.
It's most of things that he says 40k should be in the interview.
A campaign based game that explores the lore in far more depth, scattered across various releases that generally add things for most factions.
>>44132831
It's the standard Alpha Legion tactic of having some forces blinged out as fuck so that the people think that's what the AL looks like.
>>44131125
Play Iron Hands and do both.
My iron hands list is mostly footslogging marines with some robot friends.
It's just as fluffy for them to do at is it is for DG and they're Legion Astrates rule is arguably better for it as S8 doesn't deny FnP and anti-infantry stuff is way worse against you.
Iron Hands are also a lot more fun to model with all the robot shit.
>>44132857
Pic related.
>>44132831
To be fair, no one would expect Alpha Legion to actually bling out their elite units. Momentary confusion is all I might need at a crucial point in the battle.
Hell, given how I intend to paint my AL, I doubt any of my units will have exactly the same shade of turquoise.
>>44133048
That's actually part of the point of the Lernaeans if I remember correctly.
>Alpha Legion is here
>we're gonna cause fear
>get used to it
>>44132921
Justaerin are MASSIVELY overpriced. You're looking at 315 points for five barebones terminators. The multi-melta is another 25; combi-weapons or melee upgrades are even more. And THEN you've got a land raider on top of all that. I'd struggle to fit them in to a 3k list, let alone 2k.
>>44130659
So, with the Istvaan legions book down on the FW site, what are your hopes for updates when its relaunched?
>Phalanx wardeners get a price cut so they aren't just worse marry Suzerain
>kakophoni become good
>Warsmith sucks less
>Justerien get some love (205 pts for three 1 wound models!?)
>>44133085
Actually seeing one makes me think you're just doubling the chance of "gets hot-ing" yourself into a new bionic hand.
so is the typical Coils of the Hydra idea to steal some Fire Drakes and have my glorious 6th edition loadout?
Should I paint them as Salamanders or AL who have some Salamanders shit on them(but give the Salamander logo multiple heads)?
>>44133224
The most common stolen units i've seen have been Mor Deythan and Siege Tyrants.
>>44133134
Compare 205 for three Justaerin with combi-bolters and power weapons to 225 for five Lernaeans with power axes and volkite chargers. Justaerin get a multi-melta, Lernaeans get a fucking CONVERSION BEAMER.
Justaerin are one of the very few objectively imbalanced parts of 30k, next to rotor cannons.
>>44133270
Huh, okay definitely something to consider.
Is there any optimal loadout for a saboteur? Should I bother giving him a jet pack?
>>44133687
I'd argue that there's no optimal loadout for a Saboteur because a Moritat will always outperform him in terms of points earned. I tried to fit one in to my list, but I really, really couldn't justify it. If you want a sneaky consul, you'd get much more out of a Vigilator with the special ammo, or Exodus.
>>44133771
Okay. I've just been converting my Betrayal Chaplain into a sneaky looking HQ (that cape is gonna look sweet in camo) so I'm thinking what gun he should have
>>44133379
Conversion beamers are over rated. Especially on a unit that has majority 15" range.
>>44130880
He cut his best friends head off. That was uncalled for and really tacky. Especially from someone considered fabulous.
>>44133857
possessed yo
>>44133270
I've also heard people go on about Gal Vorbak.
Part of me wants to grab Reavers with jump packs and banestrike bolters, but I know that's silly.
>>44133840
My point is that both the conversion beamer and multi-melta are 25 points. It's just another indication that Justaerin are fucky and overcosted in every regard.
okay well, since I made one mediocre conversion, why not two?
Tried to make a katar like paragon blade for my Praetor, gave him a combi plasma and added on his power dagger. Not sure what else I should do with him, if at all
>>44133809
Well, the Vigilator and Exodus have bolters which you could kitbash as funky sniper bolters if you wanted to.
>>44131784
Eh, thats kind of missing the point of 30k. If youre using them as placeholders until you get some Volkite models, thats cool.
If youre a min-maxing powergamer who migrated over from 40k, and is using a bunch of unpainted 40k proxies vs. my painstakingly crafted HH NL army, then get the fuck out of here. HH is not for you.
>>44133224
>but give the Salamander logo multiple heads
That sounds like a really cool idea.
And it can give you some breaks in your painting, especially if you find yourself wanting a range of stolen unit options - siege tyrants with chevrons that turn into an A, little A's in the corners of Mor Dethan cloaks, etc.
>>44132115
10 Volkite Calivers/Chargers cost like $18. Not $100.
>>44133884
Still inexcusable, and wrong. You're a Primarch man. Keep your shit straight.
>>44133998
I was thinking possibly getting the faction specific models and giving them an AL paint job, so there's the Iron Warriors skull but with Hydra heads coming out of it. Shit like that is why I love AL.
>>44133961
Nah it's just using my Betrayal termies as Larnaers. I don't even own any 40k space marines anymore which is why I've been having to get creative with these conversions
>>44134001
That's actually good to know
>>44134001
>>44134131
$10 for 10 Volkite on ebay.
What's the lore behind this paint scheme?
Would it be fluff-rape if I did the majority of my Iron hands in this scheme, including a praevian and his castellax?
>>44134175
Fuck, forgot picture
>>44133998
Maybe like this guy did
>>44134323
Love it
>new weapon bundles include Autocannons
>not Reaper Autocannons for Cataphractii Terminators
Curse these Fulmentarus!
>>44133925
I was gonna do the same thing to convert mine for use as Belial.
Glad to see it works out okay.
>>44134193
I have no idea what the lore is because i'm not willing to dig through all of the FW books to find it, but if you like it go nuts. If it's in the book it's clearly lore friendly. The good thing about 30k is that the Legions are 100,000 strong and spread out all over the galaxy. Just say your army is part of a task force seconded to a Mechanicum explorator fleet on the opposite side of the galaxy to the main Iron Hands contingent.
It's your army. Turn it in to whatever you want it to be.
>>44134131
>Nah it's just using my Betrayal termies as Larnaers
In that case you might be better off using them as normal termies with banestrike.
>>44134478
I've never liked FW's policy on special weapons, but at least it keeps my bitz box stocked up.
>>44134772
Hmm good idea.
Also are power armor vigilators worth it? I have my sneaky HQ chaplain w/sniper Bolter conversion but I'm not sure if I want to commit him to bring Exodus by snipping off his melee weapon
>>44133145
>Mauns DT rule getting fixed to allow him to take dudes
>Assault Marines dropping 50 points
I play RG and the only jump units I have are Destroyers and Furies. I want blobs of AMs and Darkwings full of Vet tacs descending while blaring The Final Countdown or Ride of the Valkyries and not be strictly thematic.
>>44133925
>>44134746
I also did this haha
>>44130944
Is that "Never going to give you up"-man?
>>44133379
>rotor cannons
I lol'd
They look so cool though. Its' a shame
>>44131434
Can't fight fanaticism without fanaticism tho.
>>44131602
>slut for vikings
please be in Stockholme
3000 Smurfs Logos Lectora
>Master of Signals, Artificer Armor
>Chaplain, Artificer Armor
>10 Invictarus Suzerains
>10 Tacticals, Rhino, Melta Bombs, Vexilla
>10 Tacticals, Rhino, Melta Bombs, Vexilla
>3 Thud Guns
>3 Outriders, Plasmaguns, Melta Bombs
>3 Outriders, Plasmaguns, Melta Bombs
>10 Fulmentarus, Reaper Autocannons
>Sicaran Vinator Tank, Armored Ceramite
>Spartan Assault Tank, Armoured Ceramite, Flare Shield
>Roboute Guilliman
Guilliman, Invictarus, and Chaplain go in the Spartan. Master of Signals goes with the Thud Guns.
How fucked am I?
>>44135334
Sorry, I live in Umeå. Same country, though.
>>44134807
>power armor vigilators worth it?
Not for Alpha Legionnaires, who can take a Saboteur
>>44135471
But aren't saboteurs kinda meh?
If they're the "suboptimal but playable" kind of meh then I'll happily take one
>>44135340
What are your main concerns? Anti-infantry that can handle your modest big guns?
>>44135358Är det många som kör där uppe? Jag ser ofta Svennar på /tg/ men ingen nära mig ;_;
>>44135153
But really, what is GW's obsession with giving high Initiative models CC weapons with Unwieldy? It's a total waste.
>>44135553
My main concern is whether or not I have a well rounded list and body count (my main army is orks). Most local players, including myself, are starting with BaC then going into forgeworld models. I don't have the same money as them so I don't want to buy anything that doesn't help the army. I should have enough anti infantry, anti TEQ, and anti vehicle in there.
>>44135665
It sounds solid. The advice i have is to test it out and see what everyone else has, then develop from there.
Remember, there are no perfect armies, just appropriate ones.
>>44135799
Thanks for the advice. I'll keep all this in mind as our 30k community grows.
>>44135529
>vigilator
special ammo types, starts on the field, able to join a unit, has scout and sniper, has access to infiltrate and move through cover
>saboteur
superior sabotage with auto-pen, must start in reserve, only special rule is outflank, can never join a unit, has access to combi-weapons and lightning claws
Seriously, just take a Vigilator unless you desperately need the melta bombs and one chance with a combi-melta to kill a vehicle dead.
>>44135553Umeå har två av Svergies mest lyckade spel butiker; speltid.se och figurspel.se. Båda två har stadiga kundkretsar. Vi har även collectorspoint.se som säljer rollspel, brädspel och kortspel. Och som grädden på moset så har vi en spelförening som heter FUSK.
Jag skulle anta att vi har en bra community här uppe eftersom Umeå är en universitets stad så vi har en ständig tillgång med unga människor som vill utveckla sina intressen.
Så det är en trygg stad att vara en fe/tg/ubbe i.
>>44135862
Saboteur's sabotage attack is D6 S6 AP4 with no cover save, or a single auto-pen against a vehicle/structure. Vigilator's sabotage attack is D6 S5 AP6 on the target's weakest AV, but only on a 2+. So you need to decide if you prefer a single guaranteed penetration at S6, or the chance for multiple penetrations at S5 tested against AV.
>>44133224
>>44133270
>>44133687
>>44133771
I find Coils best fills a hole in your army. Tyrants good for AA/AT. I like Drakes to smash the shit out of primarch. As for saboteurs? I am running : Combat augment array, Power Axe, Lclaw for 160 pts with Dynat
>>44133224
I actually have some fire drakes that I am having a similar problem with. Not sure if I want to paint them like salamanders with some AL Iconography or paint them in AL colors. (like, paint the fire bits silver or something???)
>>44136138
Naw, nigga. Go for that ORANGE/BLUE CONTRAST to catch the eye of your opponent.
>>44135862
>>44136007
Seriously, Vigilator is basically better than saboteur in almost every aspect, especially because he can grant scout to his squad. Infiltrating/scouting terminators is fun.
>>44136163
Forgetting that all of Fury Road is Orange/Blue.
>>44135932
>fe/tg/ubbe
>>44136163
I should do orange and blue Eldar.
>>44135153
>I want blobs of AMs and Darkwings full of Vet tacs descending while blaring The Final Countdown or Ride of the Valkyries
Pardon, but if you're using Darkwings there's only one song to blare if you want to be thematic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCrn-wrJW5Y
>>44133145
fix all the shitty shit
>>44136138
Perhaps paint them blue (or a turquoise leaning towards blue) and then make the flames green fading to yellow, for a nice toxic look?
>>44133145
Unfuck rotor cannons, unfuck Justaerin, unfuck assault squads, unfuck the Saboteur, unfuck EC and WE in general.
>>44135932Helvete vad ledsen jag blev av att höra det. Nåja, man får väl fortsätta hetsa fram Svennar ur buskagen så kanske man hittar någon nära en någon dag. Må Älgar springa över dina fiender, broder.
>>44136480
and breachers and warders (plus motherfucking ROGAL DORN)
fookin forge world...
>>44136584
I dunno. I quite like Dorn having a vanilla loadout. Really paints him as the defender of Humanity in a world where you've got Primarchs equipped with fucking space blasters and necron spears and fucking MAGIC POWERS whilst they TELEPORT ACROSS THE BATTLEFIELD before throwing BATARANGS that can PENETRATE FORCEFIELDS and one of them can't actually fucking die.
>>44136658
dorns loadout is too much of a detriment and his support abilities dont make up for it
>>44136530Tackar. Lycka till med dit sökande, broder.
Would anyone actually mind if I used Rotor Cannons as Auto Cannons?
>>44136998
I would refuse to play you and probably call the police too.
>>44137061
I was afraid that might happen.
>>44136998
Honestly, rotor cannons are so obscenely rare that I doubt anyone would give a shit. The odds of there being other rotor cannons on the field are practically zero, so as long as you're clear at the start there's no chance of confusion.
>>44137100
its not worth going to jail over anon.
Seriously though, I like the Autocannon models more but noone will care if you use rotorcannon models instead. Someone in my group already actually does this, though that was because they accidentally order the sets rather than autocannon models.
>>44137147
Cool, I will do this in the future then.
>>44137189
Well, I think I can take Swedish jail. No rape showers here.
>>44137236
That's what they want you to think.
>>44137248
Hey, if I go to jail I can spend my time reading the HH books. That's a win.
>>44130944
1) Well DUH
2) That doesn't mean those who haven't read it can't understand its themes or enjoy it.
Props on Priestly because he's never done anything I wouldn't call sound but Paradise Lost isn't genius-breaking stuff.
>>44131434
I may need a transcript
>>44131535
Last I checked all Terminators in the Elite slot had Implacable Advance.
>>44131784
Pretty much yes really, those are different classes of weapon and sealed-in to the unit's uniqueness.
>>44137349
Frankly, when I first got into WHFB and 40k I did not get all the references outside some LOTR stuff in WHFB. It was still enjoyable as hell to me and a lot of concepts blew my 15 year old brain. The setting just has a very clear and good presentation that is easy to get into.
Now that I'm older I'm kinda amused and baffeld by how little is actually original idea from GW.
Make rotor guns heavy 5(6?) and heavy bolters salvo 2/4 (since everyone says theyre shit too)
>>44136658
Here's the problemo
>has chainsword with...okay rules for a primarch but not really good
>but!
>bolter instead of bolt pistol so can't shoot then charge
>bolter not even that special
>it has salvo and it's still basically a bolter?
>his "bringing the primarch" rules are kinda eh
The main good things about him are
>armor is actually gud (no wounds on roll >3)
>legion termies and breacher troops
>he's sort of cheap
>can get a pimped out thunderhawk
Give us "Sword that Dorn used during the Defense of Terra" Dorn and some better support rules then we'll talk.
Like I'm okay with him not being the best 1v1 fightmaster but he should at least have some nasty legion support rules and passable weaponry.
>>44131883
Pretty much this. I started as a kid in 3rd edition and a teen in 4th edition, at that point in time I liked the older fluff but the models were such ass. That the direction of the setting didn't matter so much as the rising quality of everything about the product. My eyes didn't open to Games Workshop's stupid policies until sometime in 5th, ever since then I've wanted 2nd ed's attitude to revive.
>art design
I never had a problem with GW's art until covers started to come out like the current Chaos Marien codex and the worse Black Library covers. Now old art is being repainted with everything I dislike about other franchises (from cheap big-hitters like World of Warcraft to crappy facebook apps) in place of the stuff that kept me onboard.
>>44137413
http://unpluggedgames.co.uk/features/blood-dice-and-darkness-how-warhammer-defined-gaming-for-a-generation/
>>44137501
This is just spitballing from someone who doesn't play too much, but what if taking Dorn gave you Force Orgs slots for buying Fortifications?
>>44132321
I like that different weapons have different rules, but I've got to admit that a lot of situations are just stupid because of no strings-free AP2 melee. If it wasn't for the meta-dominance (if not meta-overloard, -flood or -tumescence) of space marines Power Swords would be complete shit next to the other options. Balance and variation is a needless mess.
>>44132418
I see your point exactly, and frankly more nuanced visual guidelines should be given. Chiefly becuase I think whips for Eldar units would make great Mauls and the current sword-only limitation on much of Eldar is stupid. Axes should be limited to head-heavy weapons, and any long-beared axe should be eligible for sword usage.
okay say I have Alpharius and the enemy manages to get a drop pod to land on turn 2+
I succeed in stealing the reserves deployment and sub in my own tactical squad for the enemies
Do my alpha legionaires pop out of the enemy drop pod?
>>44132915
That's the file name I'm using for that image.
>>44132921
No amount of Justaerin are ever within reason.
30K is a great game because few units are underpowered. When people ask for the most underpowered unit in 30K, the most like a 40K turd button, they are shown Justaerin.
Look at dem costs.
>>44137788
Make em two wound or toughness five
I just don't understand why he has a chainsword that is unwieldy, you're telling me he can't fight at initiative with a goddam chainsword?
>>44136138
Oh nigga you paint them alpha legion, with orange where you feel's appropriate.
>>44136228
I haven't seen FR, from screencaps I see the orange but where's the blue?
>>44137501
maybe keep the bolter but make him relentless? fits him really
>>44135153
Don't use Darkwings, you have Storm Eagles for that purpose
>>44137986
either ditch unwieldy or buff the chainswords stats cause really a chainsword that not even a primarch can wield quickly should have beast stats
>>44137987
I imagine the unrelenting blue sky?
>>44137236
>Well, I think I can take Swedish jail. No rape showers here.
That's because it would be unconscionable for you to refuse the kind homosexual advances of a poor rehabilitating prisoner.
>>44137723
"On a 4+ the Alpha Legion reserve unit immediately enters play this turn instead of the enemy unit (which remains in reserve)."
"Alpha Legion units that enter play using this rule may still Outflank and gain the movement bonus from this rule, and such units may be targeted by enemy units using the Interceptor special rule when they enter play."
Explicitly says your opponent's unit remains in reserve, which means the drop pod wouldn't be deployed, and that your own units can Outflank assuming they have the rule.
>>44137840
Shunting balance in the opposite direction isn't a solution. They're a solid unit that performs well compared to their competitors, all they need is a points cost to actually make them viable to take in smaller lists.
>>44137496
Salvo 3/3 would really be fine.
Suspensors might need an update though.
>>44136480
All of this and balance the Moritat rules, not the OP or UP of before and now. But SoH before EC, they need a polishing for what was meant to be the greatest attackers and most prolific conquerors of the Great Crusade.
>>44137501
Very much all of this, but especially the gun. Just copy-pasting an artifact from Codex Space Marines balanced for a Chapter Master without tweaks is pretty damn foolish.
>>44137668
I dunno. I'd rather the gun had an Assault and Salvo profile, so Assault 3 Salvo 4/5.
>>44138063
also being a living fleshlight for ibn mohammad abu yassir
>>44138118
I meant to also respond to >>44137997 who was more relevant to the gun point. On Fortitifications, maybe - with a discount.
>>44137590
When I talk about art design I don't like I talk about stuff like GW sticking crude jagged blades on Chaos units to make them look evil.
Then there is also stuff like the plastic daemons being made to look cruder than the previous metal ones such as the Pink Horrors. I was also not a fan of when they decided to make most vampires in WHFB look like gothic Chaos Warriors and almost entierly ditch the variety of the different themes they previously had. I also don't even want to get into what I dislike about the Age of Sigmar art design.
>>44137788
>>44137840
Don't forget the extra 85 points on the first 3
>>44138100
salvo 3/3 is kind of wierd and defeats the point of the salvo weapon type (and do you mean heavy bolters or rotor cannons?)
>>44137470
Mmm the same, it started to occur to me at 17 but really all of the world of Warhammers is derivative. Maybe that's it's charm - they say okay artists borrow, great artists take, and with more creative but less presentative types to create the groudwork Gorms Wakeshop just made it sellable and inclusive in one setting. Is that grubby or not, I don't know, but none of us would be here without it.
>>44137496
I like HBs as they are and changing their baseline fire rate would cascade massively through all of 30 and 40K. Salvo 2/3 could work, but a price cut for footlogging HB units would work better.
Rotor Cannons need to be consciousable as a choice against Marines while still highly effective against hordes. Upping the fire rate feels like putting the baby in the bath but running dirty water. I hate to advocate price cut again but you know, that does the trick. (for marines only, M&C rotors are largely fine)
>>44138190
Heavy bolters, and there's really no reason you can't keep the rate of fire power while reducing the range after moving.
It would mostly make Heavy Bolters perform as though they had suspensors which is hardly unbalanced as it is now.
>>44137634
You good-hearted soul, you.
>>44137840
I've considered this approach, but ultimately it's not necessary to make the unit distinct or very fluffly. With the battery of interesting rules and some unique options, Justaerin largely need a relief from their schizo costs.
A solution I think I proffers many threads back (if I didn't I just thought it) was giving Justaerin an aura buffer similar to Phoenix guard for nearby terminators, which might justify the high initial vs. extra cost. Another idea which I definitely didn't post is giving everyone Nuncio Voxes.
Another thing that might work but perhaps be a bit strong is maybe Dorn's "bringing the Primarch rule" could give weak fnp when IF are in cover?
It'd give the IF some defense that isn't shields or wouldn't be easily negated by ignores cover weaponry which still seems pretty easy to obtain.
I think it'd fit right in with the lore too considering the IF lasted past running out of ammo at the Iron Cage because they had trenches and, by the Emperor, they knew how to use them.
>>44137668
That'd be pretty neat or maybe even a "free" un-upgradable aegis or two?
>>44137997
That'd sort of make more sense yeah.
>>44138118
No kidding about the "Dorn's Arrow" and SoH rules.
>>44138296
The part of WHFB that really stuck with me was the Empire, how it dealt with all the horrors coming its way and the historically themed quirks. The undead fluff was also pretty nice and how it was intigrated as a menace without being as over the top as Chaos was.
>>44138061
Yeah that probably would streak in some blu. I thought the sky was grey but eh. A lot of black in that movie.
>>44138174
Christ yes indeed, the cluttering is a point I raised high in a recent discussion about Age of Sigmar and its models' faults. Too much shit encrustment, not enough actual composition.
And the travesty of daemons is an interesting facet of it all. An image I made (but didn't complete) a while ago relevant.
>>44138190
Not really, Salvo X/X weapons are entirely fitting with the rules and serve a distinct purpose, you only get full range if you sit still.
They work well with weapons with multiple profiles - eg.
Range, S, AP, Type
36" 5 3 Assault 2, Pinning
24" 6 3 Salvo 3/3, Pinning
You can move and fire just fine with this gun on the fly, and you get a close range bonus regardless if you aren't going to charge. But standing still nets a bonus - not all the bonus in the world, but something.
>>44138424
Feel no pain in general would fit with the Imperial Fists. The painglove and all that jazz.
>>44138070
Makes sense. Would have been hilarious though. Might get a drop pod just to do something similar
>>44138568
I kinda wish I would have bought a bunch of Daemonettes back in the day.
Forgeworlds art design is one of the big reasons I'm getting into 30k to begin with. A lot of GW's regular stuff is good, but they are really more hit and miss than FW. They also have a bad presentation with the paintjobs compared to FW that make all their products look great.
>>44131434
Eh, I dunno. I've never really looked at it as a 'ironic' setting, but I've never taken it 100% seriously. Then again, Priestly>>>me.
>>44138706
It really depends on who is writing the fluff. Authors like Matt Ward decided to embrace the clownshoes.
Am I the only one who really want to cheat a Primarch into play using Alpharius?
You thought Horus was your friend? He's actually here to help me, Alpharius.
>>44137448
Tyrant Seige terminators don't have Implacable Advance.
>>44130659
So I picked Calth up, gonna paint them as Raven Guard. Any recommendations on how to outfit the squads? And any tactics/suggestions for new units in general?
>>44139251
Buy a poncho to prepare for the bitter oldfags shitting on you for doing RG without beakies.
>>44138602
Now if only I could get forgeworld to implement it...
>>44138794
Holy shit, please someone pull this off and post their opponent's face when it happens.
>>44139276
Hehehe. Couldn't care less, to be honest; they still had MK4 and I have enough Beakies lying around from 40k to make a few of them
>>44139276
Hehe. I have a few Beakies lying around from Assault and Vanguard Veteran kits anyway, I was planning to make the Sergeants have them to make them distinct
>>44139276
>>44139251
I will be the first one to do so. I bought my 40 RG tacs for a good reason. For Beakies.
You can not claim to be RG without Beakies.
>>44139251
Check the FAQ and https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Space_Marine_Legion_List_(30k)
is betrayal at Calth worth a purchase?
>>44139360
Like I said, I already have about a dozen lying around. Besides, the FW kit is only €15
>>44139416
You save a ridiculous amount of money on it, and the plastic is easier to work with than the resin that FW uses. 30 Marines is enough to get you started, the Contemptor is an awesome unit, and the HQ's are cool
Wow. Just finished that Ian Livingstone and Rick Priestly two-parter and what an eye opener. Priestly is exactly everything I like about Games Workshop and his problems with it's current form echo /tg/s to a tee. We need him, not sales people with no experience of the game, shaping the universe.
>>44138502
Absolutely, I loved the potential for a Bretonnian grail questant to fall to vampirism and become a terrific blood dragon with such a smooth, natural transition. The way Fantasy's factions reacted to each other is among the most organic I've ever experienced in fantasy.
>>44138677
Myself as well. I bought Bloodletters and Plaguebearers, which I largely prefer over the current affair although I grant them both their virtues, but it turned out that Horrors and the Sirens of Slaanesh were the real gems.
Forgeworld knows how to present detail, balance and composition. And most importantly they can paint models on their websites like actual people paint. None of this "expert painter deliberately making sloppy errors" jokery from the central.
>>44138794
Sadly, the rule states that the AL replacement has to be the exact same unit entry as the one coming from reserve, and all Primarchs are listed as their own unique entries.
>>44138901
That's true, I made the error recently of assuming they were a Heavy Support choice, which in retrospect was perhaps purely because they lacked this rule and I assumed in the blanks.
>>44134762
Ok cool, just wanted to be sure encase it was the Seeker colour scheme or something like that.
>Just say your army is part of a task force seconded to a Mechanicum explorator fleet on the opposite side of the galaxy to the main Iron Hands contingent.
Making Istaan V Iron Hands though.
>It's your army. Turn it in to whatever you want it to be.
Yeah but if there's lore behind that colour scheme already then I'd probably prefer to just use that.
Any news on GW doing more plastic HH?
>>44139548
It might be something they look in to based on the popularity of the BaC box, but at the same time it may just be another Space Hulk. There's no word as of yet.
>>44139658
If they made a multi-part plastic Breacher kit with I literally couldn't throw money at them fast enough
>>44139484
You can technically do it in an Alpha Legion on Alpha Legion game if you both have Alpharius in Reserve.
Hydra Dominatus indeed.
>>44139726
but they suck :^)
>>44139658
I would kill for some Plastic Assault Squads.
>>44139737
Alpharius and Omegon attempting to out-ruse each other by both successfully rolling and replacing one another. The fuckery never ends.
>>44139750
B-b-but.... looks over rules, anon
>>44139466
I still see a bit of the old GW in FW and it kinda makes me care again. They have that certain pride and sense of effort that GW has lost. It will be interesting to see how the whole Specialist Games thing plays out.
>>44139658
Maybe they will do MK2 armours or a better Contemptor kit if we are lucky?
>>44139827
Yeah I'm going to make a squad of breachers for zone mortalis some day. Even if they suck they can be used for 40k siege vanguard or just proxied as normal tacticals.
>>44139813
Oh, snap, you're right! They can continually roll to replace each other!
>>44140036
I'd play Zone Mortalis, but it costs a small child to buy the board
>>44133145
I just want it to still be 30k and not change much. Still have unit creation taxes, etc. no decurions, the like.
Basically I just don't want them to pull a 180.
>>44140296
It's too late, GW calls the shots now. Expect ridiculous decurion-rites and all that jazz.
>>44140396
except they already confirmed a big RoW book soon so I think we can safely say formations will stay the fuck out of 30k
>>44140449
RoWs are essentially formations. They will just make them more like 40k in the upcoming books.
>>44140124
Or just use a bunch of modified space hulk tiles.
>>44140475
Not really.
They limit your Force-org, but you still have to use the Force-org.
You can also only ever take 1 RoW for this reason.
It's unlikely we'll get formations in 30k with the way things are
>>44140667
Never underestimate GW and their need to sell boardgames.
>>44140667
I could see formations becoming an afterthought after all the essential rules are out.
>>44140124
Make your own, dummy. They even have ZM patterned gaming mats now and the bulkheads are easily self made, bought with MDF, or simulated with random junk to make a maze.
>>44140704
>>44140699
The only reason I can see for making them is for apocalypse, if people are filling out their Force orgs.
Pretty sure GW don't control FW anyway, isn't the only thing you have to base that off that shitty specialist games flyer made my a store manager?
>>44140797
30k is no longer FW's baby anon
>>44140797
It entierly depends on what plans GW has for 30k.
>>44140837
>>44140858
wait, is there some kind of OFFICAL word on this that FW is now controlled by GW directly rather than how it was before?
>>44136530
vart i stockholm?
>>44140983
Why do you think GW made a box set for FW's game? They are in full control of the Horus Heresy range and rules now.
>>44141031
Remember how that box set is actually supposed to be a board game?
>>44141081
If it was intended to be just a board game it wouldn't have multi-part models instead of monopose models. In time GW will take over from FW and make all HH models themselves as well as rules.
>>44141031
That's not an official report exactly is it?
Just because GW has made HH plastics doesn't mean they control the rules.
Why would they take over for the FW rules team if they are completely competent?
Bare in mind they would have to actively fire people if they were going to take over the rules writing.
>>44132200
Not original poster.
But Artificer+Powerfist makes them a pretty credible threat in most situations.. walkers, vehicles, IC's. Melta bombs are redundant.
Alpha Legion and Word Bearers can actually get the specialist weapons bonus attack five more points by taking power dagger and tainted blade respectively.
Iron warriors actually benefit from having cc weapons because of their ability to charge after firing.
>>44141031
>Why do you think GW made a box set for FW's game?
Actually, it was the FW team that did BaC and its the same team thats going to do the specialists games.
>>44141136
The Assasin box came with full multi-part CSM models.
3000 pts of Imperial Fists
HQ:
1x Sigismund (Pride of the Legion)
Elites:
1x Legion Apothecary (Artificer Armour, Power Sword)
2x Contemptor Dreadnoughts (Kheres Autocannons)
2x Rapiers (Laser Destroyers)
Troops:
2x 20-man Tac Squads (Vexilla, Sarges have Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, and a Power Fist)
1x 10-man Cataphractii Terminator Squad (Teleportation Transponder, all Termies equipped with Storm Shields and Thunder Hammers)
1x 8-man Templar Brethren Squad (Combat Shields, Vexilla, Nuncio-vox, Land Raider Phobos w/ Frag Assault Launchers and Armoured Ceramite)
Heavy Support:
3x Medusa
Pretty straight forward list using a bunch of stuff from BaC plus Forge World bits and additions.
Siggy and the Apothecary join up with the Templar Brethren in the Land Raider. The Apothecary gets a sword so he doesn't feel awkward. They have a Nuncio-vox so the assault Terminators can Deep Strike nearby if needed.
The Rapiers and Medusas sit at the back and pound the ever-loving shit out of the enemy. The Tac squads go for objectives, advance up the board, etc.
>>44138024
I have Darkwings because DARKwings and DARK Furies in the grimDARK. Really its for outflanking. That and stealth is worth in mu book. If I wanted to go full optimized I wouldn't use tac vets when Mor Deythan exist.
>>44139251
Make 10 Mor Deythan. Get some combi flamer bits.
Chainfists are great for termis because ours are S9 on the charge. Splash in some ravens talons to taste. All with combi plasma.
Make the chaplain into Strike Captain Maun
I'm oldskewl RG but I picked up two boxes of Calth to represent those who stayed behind on Deliverance. My MKIV will be clean while my beakies are going to be battle scarred. SO don't worry about going FULLBEAKIE.
>>44143275
>The Apothecary gets a sword so he doesn't feel awkward
Nice
Seems a bit small for 3000 points though, even with 10 THSS termies and the Templars.
>>44138174
>art design I don't like
Not to mention ignoring the fluff to just churn out easy-peasy conversions. The old robotic obliterators fit the theme WAY better than those mongoloid new plastic guys - and their ridonkulous mutilator cousins. They're meant to look like metallic space marines sprouting weapons, not epileptic terminators leaking jell-o.
Feh! I'll stop, now.
Question about the fellblades main gun and primary weapon. how do you work out armorbane and primary weapons rolling to penetrate
>>44144077
Anon, those Oblits are both metal and 12 years old.
>>44140124
>buy the board
Lolno. I mean, no one on /tg/ could be That Guy who pays US$7 for a handful of Genuine Citadel(tm) sand, are you? Well, are you? Anon?
Uh oh.
>>44143275
Templars aren't one of the units that an Apothecary can join, sadly. He will have to be a Primus Medicae.
>>44144151
Anon, I have no problem with metal models, possibly because I'm not a pampered child, and the age of a model does not affect how well it fits the fluff - which was the subject of the quoted post.
Do try and keep up.
>>44144248
>The old robotic obliterators fit the theme WAY better than those mongoloid new plastic guys
Those mongoloid new plastic guys are neither new nor plastic.
>>44144232
Thanks for pointing this out. I'm actually happy with this because I can equip a Primus Medicae with a combat shield as well so the entire unit is quite uniform now. Bit more expensive so I'll figure out what to cut.
>>44144103
Are you illiterate or just lazy?
>>44147141
Thanks
>>44144077
They could instead have out effort into churning out plastic Thousand Sons, Plague Marines, Noise Marines or even update the old Khorne Berserker kit with their giant hands.
>>44143607
Mmm, they could've benefited from calling it a Shadewing or something. Forgeworld's naming is often very rich in detail but repetitive in style.
On the rules. The outflanking does basically nothing, given that the craft is a flyer. The Stealth comes at a hefty 50pts (or is it more?), along with an effectively weaker loadout. You raise a salient point about Vets vs Mor Deythan. However unlike Duckships, Vets are a decent unit, it's just that Mor Deythan are excellent. Wheras Storm Eagles are decent, and Darkwings are limp.
>>44140124
Take the boards from BaC and throw them together
>>44131048
>the current two simultaneous-but-slightly-different-re-tellings aren't, though.
How are they different other looking at the Heresy from different angles?
>>44131434
>It’s a game with a future, which I don’t think 40K is.”
Honestly I think Priestly sounded too far up his ass when he said this, unless of course his idea of future is that the game may just exist.
If I read the Iron hands novels will it tell me which specialisation each clan had?
>>44134193
I think this may be a specific Chapter within the Iron Hands, maybe the one that became the Red Talons.
>>44138174
>I was also not a fan of when they decided to make most vampires in WHFB look like gothic Chaos Warriors and almost entierly ditch the variety of the different themes they previously had.
I like that they dropped the stereotypical look for the Von Carsteins. In a way they kind of sum up a lot of what is bad about 40k and Fantasy's past.
Blanche apparently came up with the design for Bloodletters and Daemonettes, so I find it a little hard to argue against those, particularly the latter because it's incredibly easy to associate them with people who think think Slaanesh is all about sex. Old Plaguebearers always looked too lumpen to me.
>>44138677
>They also have a bad presentation with the paintjobs compared to FW that make all their products look great
But FW usually paints like shit, pouring on 100lbs of weathering to cover it up. GW's painting style may not be what the average person is capable of, but there is something to be said about trying to sell a product based on how it could look.
>>44140797
>Pretty sure GW don't control FW anyway
Correct, the GW Design Studio is still separate from the FW Design Studio. Anyone who believes otherwise is probably a shitposting baby from outside of /tg/.
Hiro should build a wall and make Whineseer and Dakka pay for it.
>>44147457
New Rubrics are supposed to come next year.
>>44148755
>FW paints like shit
The quality is even worse now. This is literally, genuinely, unironically the photo they chose to advertise the BaC box on FW.
>>44148789
That's what I'm talking about, it seems most of their stuff looks like that, except as I said they use weathering to try and cover up how bare bones it appears.
Really I'm of two minds, on the one hand I can see how they might be trying to not intimidate people and paint to a more average standard, if so that is nice of them though it's something people have criticized GW for. On the other hand, like I said before I can't see the business logic of not presenting something in one of the best possible manners it could appear and using that to influence people.
