I see a lot of people complaining about certain class combinations being overpowered, but all the seem to care about is the players are able to hit above their recommended CR.

Which doesn't seem like a problem to me.

The only balance issues come when one player in the group is outshining other players in the group. Not when the group as a whole is doing exceedingly well. In other words, a group where everyone is OP is balanced.

Hey /tg/, how best do you think it'd be to make a Cantripnomancer? Like tonnes of cantrips and would it be worth it?

Also, Dwarf Necromancer? Good idea or horrible?

>>48278003
Balance happens where everybody feels like their characters are useful and the group as a whole feels they are facing a challenging but doable problem.

Imbalance happens when one or more players feel that their character is unable to contribute meaningfully. This can be because the character is overspecialized and the challenge at hand is simply beyond them, it can be because a challenge is excessively difficult or excessively easy, or because another player's character is excessively better-suited to the challenge at hand.

People complain about balance when they repeatedly see a particular type of character outshine everybody else, inhibiting their own enjoyment of the game.

>>48278070
I presently have a Sorcerer 1/Arcana Cleric 8 with Magic Initiate that gets 12 cantrips, so something like that can be done.

Hey /tg/, I am going to play a Variant Human Vengeance Paladin in an upcoming campaign starting at level 1. What build should I go for: Reach weapon with Polearm Mastery at 1st level and an optional second feat at level 4 or greatsword with Great Weapon Master as 1st level feat?

>>48278070
make it a sorcerer with quicken so you can cast spells and cantrips in the same turn.

>>48278070
Arcane Trickster 3
Warlock, any patron, either Pact of the Tome (for more cantrips) or Pact of the Chain (for an incredibly useful familiar). Take the minor illusion and disguise self invocations. This or rogue is your main class.
Illusion Wizard (6) or Conjuration Wizard (2) (both for incredibly useful class features)

It may not max out on cantrips, but any given turn you'll have several options, all of which are fun.

>>48278070
Just a straight sorcerer. Sorcerers learn the biggest number of cantrips, and they can twin them and quicken them and shit. They could twin one, quicken the other, and empower them both. Add two levels of warlock if you want the best damage cantrip in the game.

>>48278043
Outshining isn't even a problem in most groups. A lot of times the guy doing the most damage is a vehicle for the buffs and debuffs of the rest of the party to translate into beating encounters.

>>48278333
Or three levels of Warlock for EVEN MORE CANTRIPS.

>>48278343
Party members turning a guy into a hammer is isn't a problem. A guy turning himself into a hammer is a problem.

>>48278427
The best kind of party. A group of 4 primary damage dealers is too easy to kill.

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Is suptg any good for 5e games, or is the friend of mine that called it a SJW hellhole with no games telling the truth?

>>48278514
>suptg
The archive site? What?

>>48278070
Back before 5e was officially released Bard could hit around 17-18 cantrips. Don't know if anything has changed since to prevent that number.

>>48278592

It has an IRC.

>>48278675
irc in 2016 sounds like cancer.

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From the last thread

>Warlock Invocation
>Blade of Might (other names possible)
>Requires: Pact of the blade, level 12/15
>When you cast a spell, you may make an attack as a bonus action.

Essentially it's a clone of the Valor Bard 15 feature.
Another option would be to copy the E Knight version, make it cantrips only, and reduce required level to 5/7/9, whichever seems more fitting.
It just feels like the other major gish options can do this, so it feels proper that Bladelock gets it.
I also wanna make extra invocations for the other two pact boons as well, toss in a few new spells for each of the other classes, and toss it up for DM's Guild

>>48274804

I basically did the things you suggested, cutting the gold on all of them by at least half and converting ep to sp.

All the weapons and armor in town got changed to normal. I really wish 5e did Masterwork weapons cause I'd use that for a couple of the weapons in town (the mayor's weapon for example), but a silvered weapon might work.

So far I've just been working on conversions in the town itself and formatting it to look better. I'll get to the nitty gritty of it soon (ie., the Golden Bough Inn, the Temple, and the end dungeon) soon enough.

>>48278822
Make masterworks a thing then anon.
They add a +1 to hit, act as magical for the sake of overriding resistances, and are silvered as well.

>>48278747

How? Do you prefer tumblr or something?

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>>48278811
Oh, also, it needs to use your pact weapon to do the bonus attack.

>>48278597
3 level dip in warlock for pact of the tome, 3 cantrips.
4 bard cantrips known.
2 warlock cantrips known
4 cantrips from magical secrets
3 cantrips from magic initiate
2 more cantrips if you count the invocations that give you first level spells all the time (disguise self and silent image can both be at will)

>>48278811
I've seen this floating around:

Whenever you take the attack action with your pact weapon, you may use a bonus action to cast Hex before it, without using any spell slots or components.

I made a few for the others as well. Pact of the Chain got new familiars.

Pact of the tome got spell mastery type invocations. Something like this:

Level 18 Pact of the Tome: Choose 1 first level spell from the warlock spell list. You may cast that spell without using a spell slot.

>>48279130
The hex one seems excessive.
I rather just want bladelock to be reasonably on par with E Knight and V Bard as far as attack economy goes.

>>48279130
The hex one feels unneeded. By the time you'd be able to get that invocation, Hex already lasts 8+ hours, you'd get spell slots back before it times out.

>>48279110
And then Cantrips from Race (Elf is what I remember, but now there's Merfolk and the like)

Yeah, that's still sounding right. The Warlock dip wasn't necessary, but its probably an easier way to get even more cantrips.

>>48278969
text messages, phone calls, facebook, snapchat, skype

maybe you've avoided them recently

>>48279381
The warlock dip gets you 1 more cantrip than taking bard to level 20 does. It's 3 from pact of the tome, or 2 from the last magical secrets.

>>48279349
>>48279380
The hex spell is useful, and almost always up. Adding this as a fifth level spell would give the bladelock some utility as a debuffing type gish, which hasn't been done yet. Considering that hex is almost always up anyways, this just makes using it easier. It isn't so much as power increase as a utility and versatility increase. I'd probably put this invocation at level 5 or something.

>>48278003

My definition of a balanced system is that a power gap can't form to the point that a fair encounter can't happen. i.e. There's nothing I can throw at the DeathWeaver that won't end up killing the WordSmith even though they're the same level and in the same party.

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So with 5e having so many fucking ability buffs compared to previous editions, can someone explain to me why the FUCK we also need racial bonuses and no penalties? Is this some sort of "penalties to ability scores is le racist" shit?

There is literally no excuse for this shit. Orcs make worse wizards because they have lower intelligence. Elves make worse melee fighters because they have lower constitution. That doesn't mean you can't play one. Hell depending on the class it doesn't even matter. I know a guy who had a 16 and an 18 for his stats and wanted to play an elf so he just switched Con and Dex and had the same fucking numbers as if he played a human.

All the different races piss me off, too. Hill dwarfs and mountain dwarfs.... who gives a fuck?? And drow as a goddamn CORE RACE? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

One of my friends wants me to play 5e and after the shitstorm of hell I went through DMing 4th edition for these fucks I'm not sure I want to play this game. It encourages you to play tranny characters and drow. Is this Special Snowflake: The Game??

Please tell me they at least removed kender....

>>48279460

Fuck off faggot.

>>48279460
>another retarded faggot who just found out about corellon

>>48279460
>whines an assload

>"Please tell me they at least removed kender...."
You didn't even read the book, did you? Shit bait/10.

>>48279460
(You)/10

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>>48279460

>>48279460
Because 5e is balanced around bounded accuracy. And one of the ways to enforce this is by people having - at most - a +3 to any stat at level 1 after racial modifiers (outside of rolling stats and hitting a 16+ on the dice roll). This encourages players to spend their first two ASI's on getting to 20 in their primary stat and then look at the rest of the ASIs as either ways to get feats or bump up their secondary stat (or Constitution for more HP/level).

Also keep in mind most games don't get past level 10, which is part of the reason why high-level games tend to fall apart past level 14, simply because it's hard to balance a fight when the party starts getting access to world-breaking spells.

>>48279557
>(outside of rolling stats and hitting a 16+ on the dice roll).

Which isn't even that fucking hard. I could easily run into the ability cap by level 4, and be right up against it at level 1. Did these dumb-asses even think the system through before they dumped it on the general population? Everyone loved it, but they would have loved ANY game that didn't suck complete ass after the mess that was 4th edition.

>>48279648
>Mialee
Fuck off, Virt. No one cares. Not even you.

I haven't been paying attention to WotC for a while; did we just not get a UA this month?

>>48279648
>The issue now is that right in the PHB is a goddamn rule they can point to and whine about "fursecution" when you won't let them play a trans-nigger shaman pluto-kin, because the book fucking basically encourages you to go outside "traditional gender roles" or whatever.
Then don't let those guys play, hardass. What part of "Fuck off faggot" do you not get, aspie?

>>48279460
"I don't play roleplaying games but shitpost and concern troll on /tg/": the starter kit: the Post

You didn't even fail to mention the kender meme.

>>48279677
Someone posts basically the same post every damn thread.

It's been delayed til next week or the week after because holidays. And it's going to be a DMs Guild spotlight anyway.

>>48279677
It's been pushed back a lot this month.

>>48279694
The fuck happened with Mearls? I spend like 4 months playing another system and suddenly this guy is a pariah.

I'm running a Western themed campaign and one of my players wanted to be a cowboy so I let him use Matt Mercer's gunslinger homebrew. Now another player wants to be a gunslinger too but the first player says that you shouldn't have more than one of the same archtype in the party and that he picked it first so the other guy should have to pick something else.
Is this at all reasonable or is he just being a child who doesn't want to share his toys?

>>48279786
People other than gunslingers can use guns, to be fair.

Having two gunslingers would be a bit silly, but if you've got a party of more than four players, it's probably fine to have.

>>48279786
Child who doesn't want to share his toys.

You shouldn't have let him use Mercer's homebrew in the first place though.

>>48279679

What part of "I can post here if I want to" do you not get, aspie? Maybe you should try refuting my points.

This precious little paragraph is getting all these bastards out of the woodwork to come in and try to play gay faggot characters. D&D already attracts the hipster progressive crowd. Why give them a literal rule to lawyer as excuse for them to be annoying? And then *I* look like the bad guy for being "intolerant" when I just want to play a goddamn game.

>>48279694
>because (((Mearls))) is a massive kike.

He always was, though.

>>48279786

> using shit created by an actor paid to shill D&D on his podcast with a bunch of ex-camwhores

You deserve what you get. Let them both play a gunslinger, you introduced the class, it's your turn to deal with the consequences.You have no excuse otherwise.

>>48279906
I'm not the one complaining it's the player who brought up the homebrew in the first place that's complaining that he doesn't want anyone else using it.

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>Balance edition: what do you think a balanced game looks like.
Anything made by a group of friends who know what one another want to be good at, avoid stepping on one another's toes and help one another each fit into the niche they want to fit into.

Sidenote, what classes/archetypes/etc would you think best suit these guys back when they were all in their prime?

>>48279858
>>48279906
Is the homebrew particularly bad? The campaign hasn't started yet so I could just tell everyone to just use PHB classes with guns if it's a shitty homebrew.

>>48279944
Monster Hunter Fighter (Gothic UA, not the homebrew shit), Oath of Crown paladin, Hunter Ranger, Champion Fighter

>>48279893
>"I can post here if I want to"
>I can play a trans pluto shaman-kin whatever the fuck if I want to.

In this scenario, both of the above statements rely on the same logic, the belief that because they are allowed to do something, they should. The proper response is to say that the character does not fit in with the intended setting (or topic, in the case of your unruly posting.) Or, if they are especially volatile, a 'fuck off' would suffice.

So, in short, your conversation is annoying, and doesn't fit in with whatever the hell it is we talk about in /5eg/. Fuck off. Also, just tell the furries that you are the DM, intolerant or not, and in this game, trans-shaman pluto-kin don't exist, because it makes no sense whatsoever.

>>48279893
Yeah, but they would have to have been reading through the game to begin with to find the one page that brings it up, so they're not coming out of the woodwork just because of that little bit. It's perfectly easy for a GM to just say, "That doesn't work in my setting," and there won't be any androgynous or cross dressing characters. And if there are, there are going to definitely be in-character consequences and judgement by the people they interact with. And how would they be annoying by doing it? As long as they're not shoving that detail down everyone's throats, in which case it's just a poorly developed character. It's just a single detail about (likely) a single character in a role-playing game, and you're gonna let it piss you off?

You're not just coming off as the bad guy because you're making a big deal about the gender stuff. Now you're making it seem like a bad thing that the game is being played by more people. If you don't want to play with a bunch of hipsters or trans, just don't play with a bunch of hipsters or trans.

>>48279987
>>48279944
Wouldn't Ciaran just be an Assassin?
Wouldn't Artorias be a Beastmaster?

>>48279970

The homebrew isn't actually that bad. It's really just a really specific Fighter archetype that has some cues taken from Paizo's Gunslinger (Grit ect.). It's alright.

But I think more the problem is that you wanted to run a Western game without really thinking about the system. It might be better to use another like Deadlands where you can have magic and all the D&D goodies (like priests healing ect.), and multiple people being able to use guns without qualms about tripping over each other's toes.

>>48279970
It's not *bad.* It's a 3.pf port, though, and even though it doesn't completely succumb to the usual challenges there, it still shows.

This is entirely subjective, but I personally think the Gunslinger fails to clear its own orbit thematically. At the end of the day it's a fighter/rogue hybrid slaved to a particular set of equipment choices with some crafting thrown in.

>>48280250
>>48280506
Honestly the two players are being so whiny I'm just gonna go back on my word and not allow the gunslinger archetype.
Also I'd love to play Deadlands but I've already talked to my group and none of them are willing to learn another system.

What's the most interesting way to shake up the standard Fighter, Rogue, Wizard, Cleric party? What interesting teamwork combinations can you build? Any way to invert each of their expected party roles?

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>>48280587
>I've already talked to my group and none of them are willing to learn another system.
well... good luck anon

>>48280640
Ranged battlemaster, Swashbuckler, Bladesinger, Arcana Cleric

>>48280669
I'm almost positive none of them read the PHB past the sections on character creation so when I brought up the prospect of more reading I got dirty looks and radio silence.

>>48279786
Honestly it's a kid who doesn't want to share his toys.

Keep in mind too that the gunslinger class is basically just a ranged physical DPS class with a couple extra "fighter maneuvers" that give up a bit of consistent damage (in the form of jammed/misfired guns) for larger damage die.

>>48280640
just outright ban them.

youll end up with something like paladin, druid, monk, and sorcerer/warlock

Sorry if this isn't the place (I figure this isn't the thread, but I don't think the question deserves its own), but what board do LARP posts go on?

>>48281028
Sometimes LARP threads show up on this board.

Imbalance doesn't exist what so ever in any role playing game because simply it's not a competitive tactical game where balance is a factor at all especially as the DM can just adjudicate any issue fairly themselves.

>>48280911
Yeah he's just being a child. I ended up deciding against gunslingers because guns would be too good at low levels and I'd rather they be something the players can acquire along the adventure and he immediately said that by that logic I shouldn't allow magic either.

>>48281115
hes ARRtarded. just gm rule 0 that shit and tell him to find a new game if he doesnt like it. then if he stays, give him a gun later to tease him.

>>48281115
Guns are fun if you give them to good players mid campaign. Otherwise, keep them away.

>>48280127

Ciaran is an Assassin Rogue no doubt
Artorias is a Oath of the Crown Paladin, let's just say he got a custom feat that allowed him to get a celestial animal companion
Ornstein is a Battle Master Fighter
Gogh would either be a Champion Fighter or Hunter Fighter but everything devoted to maxing out his sick bow skills, maybe even a custom feat that lets him use Wisdom or something or at least lets him ignore being blind.

>>48280127
>Wouldn't Artorias be a Beastmaster?
Anyone can spend a few gold for a pup and teach it to fight, though. Arty's schtick is going into the sinking pits of fuckery, making strange pacts and gaining the power to chase the Abyss back into its black recesses to kill whatever dares crawl out.

He's probably got a couple Warlock levels and then mainly runs either Fighter or Paladin I reckon.

>>48280689
The Fighter is the dexy ranged character, the rogue the frontliner, the wizard an armored support, and the cleric the ranged blaster? That's pretty much as novel as it gets I suppose, short of turning the rogue into the healer and the fighter into the buff support.

>>48280079
>Now you're making it seem like a bad thing that the game is being played by more people.

That is a bad thing though. It's only not a bad thing if you are a WotC shill. And i'm talking a literal shill. Please explain why more people in the hobby is a good thing.

>>48281549
More content is made if there's a market for it. That is at least partially good

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Pact of the Blade
>While wielding your pact weapon, you may cast spells with a ranged attack roll as a melee spell attack, using your pact weapon as a focus

How does this sound? As far as I can see, the main problem with Blade Pact is that its features don't synergise with the rest of the Warlock's kit and there's no reason to actually use melee attacks when you have EB+Hex. Taking all the Blade invocations eats into your options and you still end up lackluster and MAD, and if the options buffed your melee enough to be worth it they'd be stepping on other classes' turf. Meanwhile, EB is accepted as pretty balanced - so why not just be able to spam EB in melee? In terms of balance versus the other Pacts, this is like adding a conditional third of a feat (Crossbow Expert, but can only target enemies in melee range) to what is already about a third of a feat, compared with Tome Pact (one and 3/4 feats, Ritual Caster + Magic Initiate) and Chain (probably about a feat's worth of familiar improvements).

This would also open up the Blade invocations to do more interesting things - lifesteal would be a Warlock-appropriate way to offset the class' natural squishiness without just giving them better armour, some mobility options like blinking around on hit might be cool. There's also a choice between having a shield in the off-hand for additional survivability or a focus/component pouch for ranged attack options. The main downside would be that the actual weapon you choose would be irrelevant and purely fluff, but a magical fiend-infused dagger dealing the same hits as a magical field-infused greatsword isn't totally unacceptable right?

Opinions?

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>>48281549
>Please explain why more people in the hobby is a good thing.

>>48281549
Don't choke on your biscotti

>>48281549
This >>48281624 and the fact that as more people give it a try and enjoy it, the more acceptable it's going to be. The public image of playing D&D has already gone from a bunch of social outcasts hidden away in some foul smelling basement to a bunch of people getting together (in person or just online) and working together to tell a story. Which sounds like a more appealing generalization?

Plus, the more people play, the more the people playing get a chance to actually socialize, make new friends, and get better at communicating their thoughts. In D&D, it could be communicating a plan for breaking into the castle of the BBEG. IRL, it can be communicating with someone at work without coming off as creepy.

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So anyone else hates playin as a bard and comming into a music room? Every mansion, every mansion, every palace, even some taverns have music halls, this place is supposed to be like, your fucking sanctuary, your place of power, but its always just a useless fucking room
The DM never prepares anything special for the one place where you're special. Kinda sucks

>>48281938
The specialness doesn't come from the instruments, it comes from the bard playing it. You're the one using it to channel the magic.

What do you want waiting for you? Another bard just waiting specifically to challenge you to a musical duel? Some weird instrument you won't even know how to play, making it useless to you?

If you want to show off or be useful or advance something in your character, talk to the DM instead of complaining about them online.

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>>48281938
What do you expect? You could have a performance check for spare change in a tavern, but the DM isn't going to give you wild magic surges or whatever just because you're in a room where a lot of people emptied spit valves

I've got a dilemma with the game I'm in and I'd love to hear your input.

I've been with my current group for over a year now, we've had some good times and bad times but it's been fun every step of the way.

But now our DM has kinda railroaded us into the 'Curse of Strahd' pre-written adventure, but from the first couple sessions it's clear that this module is going to be very slow going for us (15 plus sessions to get through the main story at this rate), I'm not enjoying the way the DM is putting the adventure across, every NPC is smug, speaks slowly and everyone says the same thing to us.

I don't want to tell the DM about my feelings because he'll 100% start to treat me differently knowing I'm not enjoying the adventure or his roleplaying, but I don't know how much more of this module I can stomach.

What do.

>>48282006

idk, atop of my head

>The ghosts of the haunted mansion come back to listen to the music. On a really good check/ RP , they leave a clue

>Playing the right song triggers a secret room

>The acoustics of the room empower your enchantments. Advantage on range / checks for musical actions / rituals / potency of healing spells

>the resonance of past songs has left the air charged with power. Ritual casting takes half the time


I thought this game was supposed to use your imagination

>>48282350
>I don't want to tell the DM about my feelings because he'll 100% start to treat me differently knowing I'm not enjoying the adventure or his roleplaying
That's what you want. You want him to treat you differently by changing how he's running the adventure.

Either tell him you have a problem with it, put up with it, or excuse yourself from the game.

>>48282352
> Every castle and tavern is haunted, full of secrets, and enchanted.

>>48282350
>I don't want to tell the DM about my feelings because he'll 100% start to treat me differently
What do you mean by that? Would simply saying "i'm not really feeling this setting's atmosphere" be a bad idea?
You could also power through it. It's a pretty good campaign. If it feels slow, it might also be you and your comrades' fault. Try to start conversations and debates within the group. Start the session with a plan previously agreed upon. Lead them if they need a leader.

>UNRELATED, BUT
One of my players want to play a Beast Master. I've came up with this quick fix for the class, tell me how many cocks I've sucked pretty please.
http://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/rkbNUlnBw

>>48282516
Quicker fix:
3rd level changes) beasts health = 5*Ranger level, passively make the beast's save it's vanilla save +your proficiency bonus

7th level) the vanilla feature (it's really good) + the no damage on successful saving throws

11th level) player and beast get 3 attacks between them, the ranger and beast must attack once each, and the third can go to either. Also the beast's attacks become magical.

15th level) The beast can also share hunter's mark

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>>48281549
It's not a job, it's a hobby that garners no monetary profit, so I don't have to put up with an autistic "savant's" cumcrust belly because I don't need his services. Who fucking cares if he's "good" at a pointless zero-profit game. I want to play a game with the people who are most fun to play with, dumbass. If I have more fun playing flag football with my grandma then I'll pick her over 22 year old Touchdown McJockson.

And WotC shills are people who buy and endorse their pyramid scheme extortion incomplete puzzle collector game called Magic: The Gathering that almost literally takes candy from babies. But whatever, it's their money.

>>48282352
>Please give me special treatment

>>48282767
Does not address the fact that you're not fighting besides your beast until level5.
Does not suffice to fix the survivability issues. If your companion isnt proficient in Dex Save, it's fucked.

Vanilla 7th lvl feature is super strong, yes. That's why i got rid of it, it's too good if the companion gets his turn.

Ranger
>make class focus on battlefield control, mobility, utility
>pick between Archery and Dual Wielding at 1st
>Archetypes at 3rd are solo, one stronger companion, many weaker companions
>replace FE, FT with 'specialties' = warlock invocations based on enemy/terrain types, change on a long rest or something

Class has Ranger flavour, actually plays differently than a suboptimal Fighter that's been cut in half
Someone else fill in the details

Why would they turn critical role into a cringe fest ?

>>48283077

>many weaker companions

sweet jesus, no. that's the last thing the game needs, another douchey nature druid summoning a million pixies or a necormancer with his "epic undead army" that takes 30 minute turns.

>>48283144
The best thing about this edition is how comparatively fast combat is. Anyone who recommends slowing it down is high as a kite.

>>48283198
>>48283144
I've played with a necromancer that chose the undead crowd route.

He knew exactly what he wanted them to do on his turn and he brought a large handful of d20s to the table to drop infront of the DM. As long as the player isn't new, almost anything can be streamlined.

(except the druid wanting 8 pixies that all cast confusion, to that player I recommend the DM saying 'only sprites answer your summons' or 'the pixies don't want to partake in this violent act')

>>48281851
3.5 sort of did that with an invocation available in a different splatbook than the warlock was introduced in. It made a weapon that did the same of eldritch blast iirc. It opened up a lot of neat combos for the warlock by letting eldritch blast do things weapons could do.

What you're suggesting is less than that, but Eldritch Blast has a lot more relative power in 5e than it did in 3.5, so it's fine. You can accomplish about the same thing with the Crossbow Expert feat, since the part about firing in melee range is worded to work with ranged spell attacks too. Since it's already possible in the game, I don't see why not to allow it.

>>48283087
Money.

>>48283077
Worst ranger "improvement" yet.

Play a ranger in a game involving wilderness, the flaw is that it is too niche not that it is terrible. A ranger with an undead, human, and elf favored enemies in Curse of Strahd is immeasurably useful. A ranger with a favored enemy of dragons suffers angrily at Horde of the Dragon Queen's lolrandom bad guy list.

Do rangers ever get fun?

Seriously holy shit they're so bad.

>>48283525
Depends entirely on what you think "fun" consists of. I think ranger is a shit character concept - like some kind of retarded conceptual mix between a fighter, thief, and druid - so I wouldn't expect to enjoy playing as one. Your mileage may vary.

>>48283525

I've done a few one-shots with the same Hunter Ranger (not connected) and it's not bad. I wish I had class features outside of Hunter's Mark and Colossus Slayer though. But really, the Ranger's in an awful spot and I don't think WotC knows what to do with it at all.

>>48283410
A lot of DMs choose to use shared initiatives so that sort of thing isn't always a big deal, but it can really sour a group if summons are abused

People complaining about rangers have shit DMs, or have a character that shouldn't be in the campaign it is in. Favored Enemy is one of the only class abilities to learn about an enemy, and Natural Explorer is amazing for games where you are moving across a wilderness.

>>48283638
>replying to tired RAWposting

I made a summoner Druid not long ago. Ultimately, the summons ended up sucking pretty bad. The smaller ones usually didn't have enough of a bonus to-hit to actually land their attacks most of the time, and the big ones didn't have enough armor and HP to be effective meatshields. And then there's the problem of resistance to non-magical junk. Game ended before I could summon pixies, but I wouldn't have abused that.

I'm somewhat new to traditional games and could use some advice.

The group I joined was part way into a campaign. Everyone seems to play their character in a lawfully retarded, overly standoffish manner, to the extent I'm noticing our DM cringing, dropping hints in bad situations that seem to imply we should probably back off and come back better prepared/ not almost dead but they either don't notice or don't care.

Is it normal for the "goody" type characters to be so suicidal? Like we're out of healing options, in rough shape, and have no plan of attack but there's a way out if we leave soon and they just stand around jerking their holy egos. There's a lot of meta problems too, like them not caring their character is one face plant away from falling unconscious because they figure someone will probably revive them.

I haven't role played much, but I like it and I'm struggling to justify my character sticking around. I don't really want to have them fuck off and be forced to create my own lawfully suicidal hero that doesn't notice their organs are spilling out. I like the people I'm playing with, but actually playing with them gets a bit agitating. Should I have my character be less helpful when things get bad?

>>48283705
What did you summon? I feel like the best summons aren't what people tend to go for.

Packs of wolves do alright because they get advantage via pack tactics to overcome their attack bonus. The giant constrictor snake is a decent wall of HP and control. The giant octopus can technically be summoned on land since it can hold its breath, and they tie up enemies well.

>>48283719
Sounds like you have a group of people used to savescumming in video games.

>Is it normal for the "goody" type characters to be so suicidal?
Yes. Every character class and alignment has an excuse to be suicidal and many players will take advantage of that.

Does anyone else have a problem with other players letting their personal feelings into the game? Like they have a problem with you irl and let it affect their characters? For some reason someone who doesn't like me very much has his character challenge every single one of my actions in game, and even though he knows full well that I'd like to continue on in the main quest we're on, he insists on distracting the whole party with his own personal actions.

>>48283719
Be the voice of reason. If it's dangerous to keep going and the team has no more healing, suggest that the team just leave. Not permanently leave, but come back once you're all healed and you have some more healing options. If they're too stubborn or stupid to leave, then I don't see any reason why your character would stay with them for a suicide mission. He can tell a cautionary tale to their next characters of how pride/recklessness can be a greater killer than anything out there.

>>48283752

Giant Octopus was one of the things I summoned. I ended up using Giant Insect (had the magic item from the DMG) a lot to summon a Giant Scorpion. With Conjure Animals, I conjured:

A Giant Constrictor Snake to fight a Fire Giant. Missed twice then died.
Eight Giant Crabs. Fight ended immediately afterwards
Eight Giant Badgers. Missed a lot
Two Giant Octopi. I positioned them wrong and never got any opportunity attacks with them. Monsters we were fighting were immune to grapple.

That's the use I got out of it.

>>48283873
Bring it up to him and try to explain to him that it's just a game. Passive aggression isn't gonna get either of you anywhere. If he can't keep his actions and opinions irl separate from his actions and opinions in-game, then maybe don't play with him.

>>48283873
That attitude's never been directed at me as far as I can tell, but "DM's fuckthing" is a classic dramabomb waiting to happen.

I mean, if I were you I'd just be super nice to him. So what if he doesn't like you.

Why are there almost no novas and touch spells whatsoever? When playing something like Cleric I want to capitalize more on being able to cast spells on the front lines.

>>48283897
Wolves would work better than the badgers with pack tactics.

Shame about the giant snake missing, but really the snake's job was to divert attention from the party, a 60hp health buffer.

>>48284030

Originally I was gonna have the snake grapple the giant and just move it away from the party, but buying the party two turns of not being one-shot worked too.

I had heard and felt that wolves and panthers were the de facto go-to summons, so I wanted to stay away from them.

>>48283853
You're probably right. They're kind of new to D&D too but they've had some practice campaigns that ended in party death, so I'm just having a hard time understanding why they play so recklessly despite not wanting to loose their characters.

>>48283895
We don't have a lot of party banter, but I guess that's something I can try to work on more. Since he's still the new guy, no one cares much of what he thinks but it's worth a try, so thanks.

>>48282874
>not giving all your players special treatment

I give my lore bard special songs instead of treasure that allow him to make the wind sing accompaniment and do minor shit like letting the target of his inspiration roll the die in advance of choosing when to use it if magical/musical conditions are right.

It takes like three minutes to design this shit for a player and it doesn't even have to be STRONG, it just has to feel unique. Players love that shit.

>>48284065
More interesting stuff to do with your summoning:
-summoning mounts for the party to get some distance between a powerful foe
-two giant spiders to spend a minute laying web traps for oncoming enemies
-a mixture of wolves and giant poisonous snakes, wolves to fight next to your party, and snakes to attack from behind your allies (with reach)
-a giant elk is a huge creature, so it has a carrying weight of 760lbs, use them to yank barred doors off their hinges (this may require you to be cheeky with rope)
-Summon giant birds to carry foes away (working in tandem if they have to)
-Summon apes to use their superior hands over other beasts to perform tasks, such as all working together to bar a door with rubble, or throw magical stones at the enemy (you'll need the elemental evil cantrip for this).

those are just some off the top of my head

So I got invited to play in my first 5th ed game. SO far I've played 3.5 and Pathfinder. What am I in for? I've read most of the rules, it seems fairly simple compared to the others, but there isn't much room for customization and having to choose between feats and ability score increases kinda sux. I'm used to playing fighters with tons of shenanigans.

>>48284324
Battlemaster fighters have you covered if you want loads of combat options, they also get more feats than other classes.

>>48284296

Right, I totally forgot I summoned four apes a couple times. Summoning four rock throwers ended up being not bad actually.

As for the rest of that stuff, the DM for that particular game would never go along with it. DM vs Player mentality.

>>48284348
That's a real shame about the DM. It always annoys me when the DM doesn't reward creativity accordingly. The games always end up with a disgruntled player complaining that 'Why would X do that?' and the DM pulling excuses out their ass.

>>48284324
If you want shenanigans you might want to go magic. Cantrips can cause some crazy shit. Improvised weapons builds can be nuts if your DM allows for stool=club and awning pole=spear statting (it's right there in the book before you ask).

>>48284426

Well, it's a bit more than that. DM rushes us through role play to get to more combats. Maxes all enemy HP and always takes average damage rather than rolling for it. So we get tons of combat that's pretty much just wet noodles against meat walls. I've got reasons for staying though.

>>48284296
Giant Elks, like Eagles and Owls, are also intelligent enough to be helpful beyond normal animal things too.
If you have speak with animals, they can be used as a translator for the languages they understand for example.

>>48284426
If you light something on fire that serves no mechanical purpose then you're pretty much guaranteed an inspiration when I DM. I love impulsive and creative thinking, it motivates me to do the same. A little brain exercise that isn't just number stuff is fun.

>>48284491
I have literally never been given inspiration, no matter what i do, but the other party members get it for spouting memes and making up catch phrases. My character is serious, stop rewarding out of character humor just because you get the reference.

>>48284550

I've been playing a clown in one game and I keep getting inspiration every time I make the DM laugh. I've been getting a lot of inspiration.

>>48284550
Seems like your DM doesn't understand what the purpose of inspiration is. Seems like he doesn't understand much of anything.

>>48284256
>>48282874
Special treatment is not the same thing as preferential treatment. A good GM should pay attention to the characters and alter the adventure because of it.

>>48284614
Last session, the dwarf literally said "Catch phrase" as he ran into battle, and was given inspiration, because he and the DM both play Overwatch.

>>48284714
I thought that was from that stick figure show

>>48284725
I don't know what else it might be from, but i asked and was told it was their favorite voice line of Reinheart from Overwatch.

>>48284747
You need to post this shit in a That DM thread sometime. This is getting painful.

>>48284701
Agreed. I wouldn't do that to just one player. I'm just saying that it's not necessarily asking for "special treatment" to ask for stuff like that bard wanted.

>>48284714
Your GM is cancer. I use reverse inspiration. I give players a point every couple of sessions and they can use it to alter the story in a way they see fit, but never to provide a mechanical bonus.

>>48284823
That's more like plot points (in the DMG) than reverse inspiration.

Which I encourage, actually. Plot points can really encourage the players to think about what they would like to add to the story and setting outside of what their characters can do.

>>48284803
Of course it's very also 'old school' to give negative special treatment as well.

If you brought a min max character to a game run by Gary you can bet your ass the monsters would 'coincidentally' have the appropriate countermeasures.

>>48284915
Yeah, it's in a nice little area in between "DM making a glorified video game" and "Apocalypse World: you tell ME the story!"

>>48284788
I mean, its annoying, but it doesn't really get more entertaining than what I've already said, and for the most part the game functions well.
One specific example would be that I've tried to pull rank in various situations, the DM had decided that i was an officer with my soldier background, and it has not once actually accomplished anything, not even getting horses from the garrison to ride out. I pretty much have given up on trying to RP with the DM, and instead only RP directly with the other PCs.

What character do you want to play next, 5eg?

My next will be a sorcerer swashbuckler. haven't decided between wild magic or draconic, draconic would be better mechanically but wild magic is fun.

>>48284915
>Reverse inspiration

A reverse inspiration would be something like enemies can reroll attacks.

You could just make it a clear punishment for 'acting out of character' like XP penalties were, but I think you could do something interesting with conflicting ideals here.

As much as I hate FATE for it's narrative bullshit I did like the built-in one up manship the fate point system had.

>>48285121
>FATE
Remember FATE?

>>48278514
>SJW hellhole
Don't provoke the touhou and you will be fine. suptg's D&D channel is #dndooc.

>>48278514
Naw, my 5e campaign is fully redpilled.

>>48285087
Multiclass fighter 1 / rogue 19. Be the least stealthy rogue there ever was.

>>48285448
They can't see or hear you with three feet of good steel stuck through their faces.

>>48285265
i remember ctrl, shift, tilde, god

>>48285265
> Remember?

Huh, It's not that old.

You're not thinking of FATAL are you? that's a common mistake.

>>48285584
Thinking of FATAL is nearly always a mistake, true.

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I'm new to DM'ing and have just run a couple sessions now. This next one coming will sort of wrap up their first little arc and I'm not exactly sure where to go from here. I'm not running a pre-made now but I'm considering transitioning in to one.

If I wanted to avoid that and keep making the story, what is the best way to keep it all coherent and going? Should I try writing out a longer story and multiple little lines for the major towns I've mentioned? I've heard to write a story as if the players weren't there, but would a few hooks and adventures per town make sense? Maybe some spanning from town to town in a larger evil?

I need help building a world, friends! Any good resources or is this all personal preference? I'm also running for mostly new players, so I'm not super pressured.

>>48285939
>would a few hooks and adventures per town make sense
This always works. I always start out a campaign with 10 hooks, and taper down based on what the players show interest in. If you want to do a myth arc in a longer-term thing, but you're hesitant, you could just run little adventures one at a time while peppering in little bits.

Also read the DMG, it helps.

>>48285939
>I've heard to write a story as if the players weren't there
Fuck whoever wrote that.

A story should come from and react to your players. Make up some NPCs that might have some bad shit going on with goals of their own, dangle a few hooks to the players (minor bad shit going on, or signs of people needing help), then build off whatever they bite on. You should set the foundation, but how the story builds depends hugely on how your players go about it.

>>48285964
Good deal. I've read over the DMG a few times now, definitely need to pour over it some more now that I've got a little bit more of a world fleshed out. I'll keep that all in mind.

>>48285977
I'll keep that in mind, I try to be really flexible and definitely end up improvising most of our sessions (or at least if feels that way).

>>48285087
I'd like to play some sort of summoner druid like someone mentioned earlier, actually, but our only reliable DM has a hard on for "extremely hard" combats, as he puts it, and starting at level 1. and by "extremely hard" combat, I mean he makes up ridiculous stat blocks for things. We had to fight zombies with 17 AC at level 1 in our current game.

>>48285939
You should probably write a summary as you go along of what the party has done. Perhaps just a paragraph per session.

As for what to do next. That's a bit more difficult without hearing what the whole story is about. Don't write things too far ahead because players are NOT going to do what you expect them to do. Unless you have Xanatos level planning.

>>48286183
Got it, definitely should be doing that.

Also, my players seem to take everything NPC's say to be true. I think they've done one insight check since we started. Is it a dick move to have an NPC intentionally lie to them about a motivation or something to try and keep it in their minds?

I would drop a few hints that the NPC might be up to something before I do that so it wouldn't seem completely like a bait and switch.

>>48281028
It was on /asp/ before moot showed in the wrestling manwhore crowd.

They ruined the only board where you could actually ask for advice etc. about stuff like martial arts and other hobbies.

I hate wrestling so much now. Thanks for reminding me.

>>48286532
One of my favourite things to do is have a "town rumours" table. Pick some true, some false, some half-true rumours (in about that proportion, maybe 9 in total) that are going around a town. If the players spend any time with an npc, maybe roll on the table and give them that rumour. If they spend time gathering information, they'll find out more of them (and hopefully be able to pick out common factors, but still not get the whole picture).
This will let the players 'decide' what's going on without you straight up telling them, and twists can come from these early misunderstandings /assumptions.
If you have multiple towns, or maybe an old spooky house or fort or something, do a rumour table for each, and then when your npcs get asked "who lives in that creepy old mansion?" you've got lots of Scrooby Doo answers the peasants have made up from limited information.

Anyone remind me where all the additional statted weapons that aren't included in the PHB are? I vaguely remember that there was one somewhere in OOTA.

>>48283966
Scag cantrips.
Otherwise go arcana cleric and or dip druid.

Is it overpowered to give the Paladin the ability to Smite with ranged weapons? A player wants to be a Holy Noblebright Archer and asked if he could do it in exchange for losing the ability to do it with melee attacks. I figured the lose of opportunity smites makes up for the range

>>48286890
Would be be cool with playing a life cleric with a shortbow? Or an elf life cleric with a longbow?
Ranged damage spikes so early with Paladin HP is a bit much in my opinion.

>>48286931
He really wants to be a human Paladin. I'm thinking I could take 1d8 off the base smite damage.

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>>48286890
Try this.

>>48286890
not particularly
im not sure if they answer it in the sage advice >>48286985 but what they "mean" to write is "a melee attack, with a weapon" not a melee weapon attack. so thrown wouldn't work, but a bears fucking claws would. hell a headbutt could be a smite arguably.

that being said, its not like it increases his damage, there are no fighting styles for ranged paladins, and a number of his abilities STILL need close/touch range anyway

i personally would just let it as is, for alot of his shit, he still needs to be within 10 feet of the party, and 30 feet of enemies. thats not all that long ranged. if you really need to, say theres a max distance the smite wears off at so he doesn't try to make 600 foot longbow smites

>>48287066
Just give him a pike and fluff it as a very short range bow

>>48278514
source on that gif? Looks way cool.

>>48287205
The Devil is a Part Timer.

Its about the Demon King working at McDonalds in Japan. It doesn't have anything to do with that gif really

So, I'm running for this party:
Champion Fighter (AC 17, 57 HP)
Ancients Paladin (19 AC, 21 with Shield of Faith)
Valor Bard (19 AC, 20 with Warding Bond from Cleric)
Abjuration Wizard (15 AC with Mage Armor, plus Shield and Arcane Ward)
Life Cleric (16 AC)

All level 5. As expected, the first 3 take the front and usually don't let things get past them. And barely anything can hit those 3. Save based damage gets through, but then next level the paladin will give a big bonus to all saves around her. On the one hand, I'm kind of proud of their smart play, on the other, I realize making challenging fights will be a challenge in and of itself.

>>48287578
Traps, puzzle's and multi target fights, make them split up, put them in situations where they cant be a united force.

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>>48287620
>make them split up, put them in situations where they cant be a united force.

This is literally the worst DM advice I've seen anyone give in years.

>>48287066
>>48286890
he'd also more likely not wear heavy armor, for the good and bad that comes with it

>>48287066
>so he doesn't try to make 600 foot longbow smites
Way to take all the delight out of it.
And honestly, how often is the opportunity for a 600' attack going to come up without DM collusion?

I gave our ranger an enchanted bow that has a long range of 4800', a bit shy of a mile.
It rarely gets used that way, but it's incredibly fun and flashy when it does.

>>48287861
I don't see why this is fundamentally bad. Though I don't recommend keeping the party split for a whole session and I wouldn't do it very often

>>48287927
Splitting is to put them under pressure, not to be done constantly.
And to the anon who asked first about having problem challenging his group, that is one way.

>>48287903
i more meant limit it to non maximum range shots, he could still be smiting at 120 feet if he wanted too.
and considering he can choose to smite after he sees if he hit or not, he can just say "lel, that 400 foot shot does 5d8 more damage"

I was cooking up a ranged Paladin the other day myself, and I think giving a ranged Paladin the ability to use Divine Smite is a bad idea. There are things called trade-offs when it comes to abilities and doing away with downsides because someone is too much of a pussy to deal with it is bad for the game. If he wants to be a ranged Paladin he can use Branding Smite like a sane person, and until he gets it, Divine Favor is perfectly fine.

>>48287927
>tfw been in a party that's been split for two, coming on three, sessions this week, to the point that one group has had different days that they've played during the week
>tfw the first group hasn't done anything because the barbarian quit and the paladin has been busy also read as actively avoiding playing with the arcane trickster shit who made the entirety of her first session, all six hours of it, stealing from a magic item shop the party was trying to buy shit from.
>The party I'm in has had a happy dungeon crawl
>up until the level three trio of adventurers, the NPC we were supposed to guard, and the bard's pet slime ran into a troll
>the NPC spent the entire fight trying to flip a burning carpet over instead of using her immense magical powers, as she straight up was a wizard
>everyone had horrible rolls
>and the bard straight up died and we can't revive him because of his religion
>afterword, we were told by the DM that they were impressed with how well we did because it was an encounter meant for the whole party.

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>>48287578
noncorporeal enemies. I used pic related as a great encounter against my team. They would float through walls, grapple the squishy casters, and drag them into hazards. There wasn't much the fighter could do about it.

Additionally, consider swarms of many enemies, all fast, and all spread out. Some will get through.

Install alternate routes in your dungeons that enemies can use to get behind the party. If the party is savvy with perception checks, they can use them, and potentially get behind the enemy.

High HP enemies with legendary actions that force saves every turn are also a good way to handle parties like this.

Looking at that party, you may want to look into intelligence save based enemies (intellect devourers are cool, and in a swarm quite deadly). Also constitution saving throws. Mummy Lords are cool, and quite deadly on their own. Also they feature teleportation, so there's nothing your martials can really do to stop the mummy lord from breaking the line.

>>48287936
Flying around on a special mount Smiting dragons at long range is visually bad ass as fuck.
Unless your Evil Overlords make it a habit of walking around atop their fortress walls long range smiting is only super effective when you allow it. Hell, it can be hard to get a decent shot from a helicopter with weaponry that has 10x that range.

>>48288023
It's a 5th level party. I would hope a competent DM could give them a few knocks without resorting to Legendary Monsters. Hell, non of them have an AC much over 20.

>>48288023
I mean, you could put them in Magical Evil Fog that the Fog Monsters can see through, and that would tip Advantage/Disadvantage sufficiently to give that party a hard time. No need for "high HP enemies with legendary actions".

>>48288069
>>48288080
Legendary actions shouldn't be limited to high level monsters anons. Legendary actions should be considered at all levels when you want the party to face a singularly powerful individual monster, because otherwise individual monsters are usually so overwhelmed by the party's action advantage that they won't present a fun fight. Legendary actions even the playing field and make things interesting again.

As far as balancing a mummy lord for a party of 5 level 5 or 6 individuals, just cut the damage down, the HP down, and adjust the save DCs by a couple of points. There are guidelines in the DMG for this, you should read them if you DM. Though I do feel those guidelines are too lenient, so I tend to pretend the party is 2 levels higher when using them. It's worked out so far.

>>48288093
I tend to use "Boss Monster" fights that have mechanics in them, rather than just massive HP piles that get a half dozen attacks per round.

Making high HP legendaries without party-killing offense would work I suppose, but it sounds like an excuse for DMs who want to easy mode it without running the requisite number of encounters.

And please refrain from assuming how often I do or don't DM, or my familiarity with the rulebooks.

>>48288160
>Making high HP legendaries without party-killing offense would work I suppose, but it sounds like an excuse for DMs who want to easy mode it without running the requisite number of encounters.

I don't think I'll stop assuming things about your DM experience, because you keep saying things like this that demonstrate a complete unfamiliarity with the system.

You can slot in a custom legendary monster into the regular encounter system. That's what CR is for, and CR Guidelines are for anon.

Here, I'll walk you through it:

>create monster, or modify current monster
>choose desired CR for monster
>adjust numbers to fit guidelines for that level
>pop it into an encounter where that CR is appropriate, or make up an encounter for it.

There's nothing about making High HP monsters with legendary actions that keeps them from fitting into the current encounter guideline systems, and it's frankly weird or ignorant that you assume that.

As far as fight mechanics, generally every fight you do should have environmental mechanics, to keep things interesting. Boss mechanics are okay, but don't often make sense narratively, while legendary actions are just a mechanic presented in the book to solve the problem of one monster having a tough time against 3 or more players.

>>48286890
There are smites that don't care about what weapon you're using.

I'm curious about the super-realistic aspects of 5e (or dnd in general). Whenever I have played my DMs have always been incredibly lenient when it comes to to (as they put it) the more "nit-picky" aspects of the game like food/reagents and stuff like that. I was going through the rulebook/dm book though and there seems like a lot of really cool stuff like this that would make things pretty interesting. I could definitely see how playing stuff like this 100% by the book could be a bit tedious but at the same time I think it would add a new and interesting dimension of gameplay I haven't seen.

For example with reagents. Whenever I have played a caster class my DMs have used the philosophy for spellcasting that "its assumed your character would be stocked up on necessary reagents" and kind of play it automatically like in a town I would have presumably restocked anything I used previously, but its all automated. But it could be interesting to go around and have to find certain reagents (or craft them) since my use of certain spells depends on this. Food is a similar story where its just assumed you stay well fed and hydrated automatically because your characters presumably wouldn't let themselves starve.

I'm just curious if anyone's played a lot closer to the book with these little detailed things and how it affected the game?

>>48288571
Component pouches actually sort reagents that don't cost anything and aren't used up.

>>48288571
I've always thought tracking spell components would be interesting too. But it is a shit ton of bookkeeping.

>>48285584
>FATAL

Please...no...

>>48282881
No other class gets two attacks anywhere near that powerful that early. Not attacking with the beast until level 5is the right choice.

Sepia Snake Sigil, mad monkeys, enchantment Foil, or Hydrophobia, for home brewed into 5e?

>>48289159
Two of the things you said make sense, and only one of them makes sense in context.

>>48287578
How the hell did a bard get 19 AC at level 5?

>>48289358
Not him but breastplate, 14 Dex and a shield. Seems pretty straightforward.

>>48287578
Is every single fight coming at them from one end of a narrow corridor? And they're never surprised or otherwise outmaneuvered?

>>48289375
Not him But:
>Breast plate AC: 14
>DEX bonus: 2
>Shield AC bonus: 2
14 + 2 + 2 = 18

Meaby he got a ring of protection or something?

I killed one of the PCs in my campaign with an intellect devourer last night. first round it succeeded its mental takeover and rolled a 14 vs 13 int. The party of 6 was level 2.

Tell me im a good DM, please.
Tell me im a good person.

>>48289358
Half plate, 14 Dex, shield. 19 AC.

>>48289394
Actually, ever since they hit level 4, most fights they had were in open spaces. Don't get me wrong, I still can challenge them. But the paladin is a recent addition to the party, which used to have a rogue. I'm just thinking ahead.

>>48289417
Well, Half-Plate is 15+Dex(2) if he somehow managed to acquire the 750gp for it.

>>48289498
I could see that. Meaby he did something for a blacksmith and got it at a discount. He is a bard after all.

>>48289485
You're fine. Not good, but not bad

>>48288023
That's a cool monster, I'll save it for later use. Speaking of Intelligence saves, one of the villains is a 11th level illusionist wizard. What are some interesting things they could pull on the party?

>>48289417
Medium armour master :^)

>>48289485
I feel you. A few sessions ago I killed the cleric. The martial players missed the session, so the casters had to fight alone (with a Spy NPC). Since none of the three were specially blasty, they just couldn't do enough damage to kill the things and the fight dragged on for over a minute in-game. Funny thing was that two of them dropped from giant spider poison, which meant they were paralysed, but stable. The cleric, however, was knocked out by damage carried over by Warding Bond, and failed 3 saves...

Thankfully they had a scroll of Revivify, and I allow anyone to try to use scrolls, so the wizard got him back to life.

>>48286629
Thanks! I feel asleep last night but wanted to let you know I appreciated this input, definitely a great idea.

>>48289577
Nested illusions. Let them disbelieve the big unrealistic illusion to have a more subtle one hiding beneath.

Hide traps with illusions. Make walls, floors, or ceilings fake but the danger behind them very real.

Use programmed illusions to deliver speeches and converse with the heroes while he can scry from safety. Magic mouths everywhere whisper to them of their failure and remind them that he always knows what they are doing.

Eventually simulacrum or "Mislead" of him when something really needs doing with that personal touch. Let them never be sure if he is even real.

His domain is a full mile radius of arcane mirage terrain constantly warping to his whims and alternating between illusion and reality.

He can constantly shift around with mirror images dancing away from their attacks or even just pester them with greater invisibility and a good stealth skill.

>>48289577
Programmed illusions.

This is a sixth level spell that you can cast daily at level 11. Best of all, as an illusionist, you don't even need to program it when you cast it. Because at level 6, you get the ability to essentially recast any of your illusion spells for free.

So this level 11 illusionist, let's say he had 10 days of preptime. That means he can cast 10 programmed illusions. Let's say he's got one for delivering a speech to the players, as the other anon wisely suggests.

Well, if the players skip the speech, that's useless! Until he uses his level 6 feature to make it an illusion of a monster instead.

The trick is also going to be hiding real things among your illusions. Say the Illusionist wizard has some pet hounds. Well he can summon 10 hounds with his programmed illusions, and mix the real ones within. The players can never be quite sure if the illusion wizard's dogs are real or fake.

Do the same for traps, doors, holes, etc, all while pressuring them with damaging conditions to ensure they need to think quickly.

Always ask for intelligence rolls from the players during innocuous times, or roll the dice yourself behind a screen. You can't let meta knowledge mess up the illusion after all.

>>48290252
>>48289577
Also, go meta on them.

make an illusion of an illusion. I.E., cover a trap with an illusion that makes it look transparent, or sound hollow. The players will ignore it. Then spring the very real trap on them.

>>48290252
>>48290263
I also apply this type of thinking to traps in general. I occasionally use obvious traps that have non-obvious traps around them if you try to avoid them, or traps that activate when another trap gets disabled. If the group deactivates both at the same time, then they can avoid the effects.

>>48289340
Spells anon.
Sepia Snake Sigil time locks someone who reads the book with the Sigil in it for a time period.
Mad Monkeys summons Monkeys who just do general mischief on your command.
Enchantment Foil is just negation for magical charms and fear effects.
Hydrophobia makes the target so deathly afraid of drowning they won't even drink potions.

>>48290345
Looks like you just homebrewed them in then anon.

Trying to homebrew an Artisan class, but to do that I need to fix 5e's crafting system:
(It costs 100 gold to make a basic healing potion, but you can buy one for 50 from a shop, and then possibly sell it to a buyer for 100 gold, or so says the PHB and DMG)

Any advice for how the class should work?]

Addendum: The class will have three 'Arts' for archetypes: Smithing, Alchemy and Wandcraft (They all can make wondrous items, smiths can make weapons and armor especially well, alchemists can make many potions, and wandcrafts can make wands, staves and the like)

>>48290875
Why overhaul the whole crafting system? Give the class its own crafting rules so it's special.

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Alright so.
one of my players wants to play a human, but says he needs dark vision for his character concept to work. He wanted to play an elf or half elf, but they are not allowed and no, shut up, is not because meme spewing.
He's willing to give up one of the human/variant human traits in exchange of dark vision, yet I have no idea how to fluff it, enchanted spectacles? a mutation?

>>48290931
That saves a lot of time on my part. Thanks anon!

But what do I do to avoid making the class another Ranger? I want to give it some combat capability, but I'm not entirely sure how to do that without just tacking on wizard spells and stealing features.

>>48290875
Why the fuck would this be a class?

>>48290958
Why not just give him the stats of a half-elf?

>>48290965
If it specializes in making magic items, give them more attunement slots than other players get. It should scale with level in the class so it doesn't encourage dipping out after a couple levels.

Let them do stuff like use certain classes of magic item as a bonus action, and/or give them a way to use two magic items in one action like Action Surge. Give them a way to apply their own form of spell DC to wands, scrolls, etc. that normally have fixed DCs.

Give them a refill mechanic on potions they have crafted themselves.

>>48290958
Make him give up the variant human feat for a 'darkvision' feat (like learning how to fight blind, hunting in the dark, that kind of stuff.) There are also 'Goggles of Night' in the DMG, so you could just throw him a pair of those.

>>48290958
There is an uncommon magic item that you can get for around 100-500 gold, could let him start with that and let remove a reward for him later.

>>48291079
I agree with the disgusting namefag on all points. You sound like a fag, and so does he.

>>48290998
Because the crafting system is shit, and magic items need to come from somewhere. In settings like Eberron or Forgotten Realms where magic is sorta out there, it would be another way for players to get the magic items they want without hoping that the DM is in a good enough mood to throw it their way.

>>48290958
Be a real man and play a dwarf or a half-orc.

Play a gnome.

>>48291079 what this guy said

>>48291034 or this guy

>>48290958
Give him goggles of the night and a personal goal of "You owe a loan shark 600gp, watch your back."

>>48291103
That's why I suggested giving the class its own crafting rules. It let's the Artificer replacement feel special without having to also reinvent the infusion system.

I leaned toward letting it craft with its own rules (haven't decided yet), extra attunement slots based on a multiple or factor of proficiency bonus, and the stuff I already said.

I am leaning toward reduced cost for items that can only be used by the maker as well.

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>>48291089
>>48291079
Both of you sound like
gigantic fags
>>48291115
>>48291030
I'm going with this, the loan shark bit sounds hilarious.
I'm making quite few houserules or modifications and allowing some homebrew because it will be a short campaing and i wanna see what works and what doesn't for this group

>>48290875
New crafting rules:

Anybody can attempt to craft anything.

The time needed to craft anything is variable, but generally proportional to how much the item is worth. Things go faster if you have good tools/supplies/circumstances. Things go faster if you are proficient.

So to craft an item, you roll a dice pool every long rest that you spend crafting the item. If the dice pool equals or exceeds the item's value, you create the item. If the dice pool does not equal or exceed the item's value, you add the result to the total of all other results that you've had trying to create this item. If that total equals or exceeds the item's value, you create the item.

Your dice pool is determined by several factors. You roll a number of dice equal to your proficiency bonus in the relevant tools or skill. If you are not proficient, you roll one die. The type of die rolled are based on all the circumstantial bonuses you have. For everything in your favor in crafting the item at that point in time (for example, additional useful tools, a master overseeing your work and helping, etc), you upgrade your dice one level. You start at a d4 (nothing in particular is to your advantage), and can go all the way up to d100s.

So for example, if you were proficient in blacksmithing and a level 10 character, had a master overseeing your work, had magical enchanted tools, had just the right supplies for the job, and had been blessed by a god of blacksmithing, you could roll 4d12 to your crafting.

4 dice from your profiency bonus. 8 if you have expertise in those tools.
4 situational bonuses
d4--->d6--->d8----->d10--->d12

This means that under these very beneficial circumstances, you could put out a high quality or two weapon in the span of a long rest.

Here's a possibility:
Extremely magical circumstances that add multiple dice upgrades to your pool. For example, this system could handle alchemist's tools +3. The +3 would upgrade the die 3 times.

>>48291230
Another possibility: surplus points. When you roll and you have extra points, the extra points represent the quality of the production. This scales all the way up to 20. Higher surpluses are considered 20s.

The quality of an item affects it in different ways. An item that was so good it got a 20 or higher quality might be considered almost magical, and if a weapon, might act as a magical weapon +1 higher than its grade would suggest. A potion of high quality might be particularly potent, restoring more health, or doing extra poison damage. Etc, etc.

>>48290562
Well I'd like to get a whole spell book worth of shit like that, because as it is, there isn't a whole lot of dumb fun spells or traps or anything like that.
A good one that I had in mind is you take something made of cloth and can concentration store something inside it magically, similarly to a bag of holding.

>>48291343
Sounds a lot like a 3.5 spell called Hoard Gullet, except with a bag instead of inside your stomach.

>>48291343
I know some guy on reddit had a whole spellbook of ported spells. You may want to search there.

(not a troll >gb2reddit post either, this guy existed, and he posted his stuff on reddit, but that's all I remember)

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I don't get how variant human is broken.
Humans don't get free spells, breath weapons or other cool racials, why do people get so assblasted at humans being able to start with a feat?

>>48290875
The crafting rules make sense. A shopkeeper has the advantages of being able to work from volume, being accessible to a broad customer base, and being a known and trusted part of a community. An individual murderhobo crafting one or two items has none of these things, and so he'll have trouble competing with shops. His relative overhead costs are higher and his customers are sparser and more suspicious of him.

>>48281851
I use the blade for Paladin Smites.

>>48291416
Because they're retarded and don't get how useless standard human is barring one very, very specific circumstance (rolling for stats and getting majority odd numbers).

Half-Elf is the true master race, variant human is just pretty damn good.

>>48291416
Previous editions have trained players to include ability scores and number of feats in their assessment of characters' power, but nothing else, even if it comes up a lot, like the half-orc's ability to not die. Racial features used to be weaker across the board.

Guys I want to make a cleric-rogue with the back story that she is a sleeper agent.... so on the surface she a healbot but really an assassin

so how would build her

>>48291501
Trickery Cleric seems like a good fit to go with Assassination Rogue.

>>48291510
I was thinking the same thing
how would I spread her?
50/50, I am thinking of 6 cleric - 14 rogue

and would it a viable build? can I expect to do decent damage

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>>48291379
I just read the spell up and holy shit I'm getting flashbacks to that old PSX game Tomba.
That was a damn good game.

>>48291399
I'll give it a look.
What I wanna do is make a big fat PDF for DM's guild for just general expansion on base book and UA stuff.
and a goddamn overhaul for Undying warlocks because that's just kinda sad.
Like new Evocations and a new patron for warlocks, a new circle for warlock, new spells, a new fighter archetype, maybe an overhaul for Beastmaster, stuff like that.
Primarily looking at new spells though.

>>48291608
That sounds good, or 8 cleric - 12 rogue.

You would trade off a die of sneak attack, impostor, and blind sense for divine strike, 4th level spells, and an extra ASI if you actually get to play all the way to 20.

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>>48291644
*circle for Druids, rather.
I also want to do some fighting styles and maybe a new race or two.

>>48291608
If you're only being roguish when absolutely nobody is looking, you might not want any rogue levels at all. Just a decent Charisma score and training in Deception would be all you need to supplement your magic, and you can get that from your background alone. You'll be armed and armored like a cleric, and you'll fight like a cleric, because that's what people need to see. You'll accomplish most of your goals through magic. Most of the time you and your party will be together, overtly fighting things. If you're really a deep-cover agent, the method that makes the most sense would be subtly, gently steering the party toward your targets without letting them know your ulterior motives. Being stealthy and using knives doesn't need to factor into it at all.

>>48291608
With so many levels divided into both classes, you won't deal much damage at later levels.

Clerics, by design, deal the least amount of damage in the game. Some domains grant Divine Strike or some ability to enhance cantrips, but it's just enough to almost keep up with other classes when those other classes aren't spending resources.

Rogues' damage scaling depends on their Sneak Attack dice, which are impeded by heavy multiclassing.

>>48291608
You could just take Trickster cleric to 20 with criminal or charlatan background.

>>48291934
I see your point, I just plan to have a great reveal mid game and saying that the chara killed off certain important NPC

>>48291934
fair enough


back to figuring out my dwarven court case

>>48292019
like I said >>48292051 I want be stabby stabby

plus our group is every stealthy

>>48292110
Trickery Cleric is pretty sneaky, or you can multiclass early with a level in each class for proficiencies and expertise.

Trickery cleric features are so boring.