Well /sci/, what is it? A real illness? Any personal experiences with it? Theories on causes?
pic unrelated
in my case lack of sleep causes it
think different people have different triggers
my theory is everyone has a down mode but some people manage to avoid triggering it
nothing to do with 'chemical balance in the brain' or any of that junk
>>8079052
>Any personal experiences with it?
Yep. I've been depressed for about a decade, I started exercising and going to the gym about a year ago and I honestly can't remember feeling better. Since then I've been wondering if there's some link between the increasingly sedentary lifestyles of people and the raise in the prevalence of depression.
A natural response to the inhuman capitalistic system that we live in
>>8079052
I seriously think that depression and existential crises are the same thing. I have the symptoms and lifestyle of depression but never considred myself depressed (or sad). But I realised that my existential crisis was leading to the same things
>>8079052
https://youtu.be/NOAgplgTxfc
A must-view for understanding the fundamentals of depression
Super depressed person here.
My personal theory on depression and suicide is that they are natural mechanisms of human mentality that serve to enhance group fitness as a whole by encouraging the redistribution of resources from those less favorable to reproduce to those more favorable to reproduce. It's a way to prune socially weak persons out. You don't really see suicide in animals much because it takes high-level social behavior to become important.
Could be completely wrong, but that seems like a plausible evolutionary explanation.
>>8079284
It could be because of our need to socialize, and if one is ostracized from society they regress until finally the brain recognizes no plausibility of passing on genes, and ends it.
>>8079255
>psychomotor retardation
I see there is a word for it. Very enlightening video, thanks for posting.
There's no difference between depression and attention-whoring, but attention-whoring is very much a real mental disease (narcissism)
>sauce: psychology freshman
>>8079376
>source: Professional shitposting
Yes, mine is manifested by extreme fatigue and/or anhedonia which then triggers eventual low mood since neither of them are pleasant. I have stuff I have a habit of accomplishing or long term things so I push through it, but sometimes it just takes it's toll and I have to stop everything for a day after work. I think some of it I have experienced lately is also just situational that supplements the brain chemistry.
>>8079284
*Former* "depressed" here
Depression = Awareness, if you believe this is 'illness', you might have acquired Gulliblitis
You aren't mad, sad, or anything strongly anymore.
No desire to breed, not from a lack of confidence in 'looks' or 'social skills', but knowing what a futile use of energy it is making 'preparations for the future' in a world that can't handle the now without turning it to a steaming pile of ape excrement for everyone, your pic illustrates this point.
Possibly 'after death' there is something marginally less awful, but from what can be known about cycles, unlikely, and no reason to 'race for the finish line'.
>>8079056
Sounds like a great scientific analysis /s
What fucking board am I on?
>>8079390
>/s
are you sure you're even on the right website, pal?
It seems to be a multi issue illness that has many factors combined into it. My favorite factors are the physiological ones.
Activity in part of the left prefrontal cortex has been found to be associated with people who are more resilient to stressors in life and as such have higher levels of overall happiness levels. On the flip side, those with more activity on the corresponding right side are linked to reacting more strongly and negatively to stressors and are more likely to have anxiety and depressive disorders. Also, meditation focused on "happier thoughts" has been found to increase activity in the left side but not study has looked at the entire chain as far as I know.
Also while many people think SSRI medication works by putting more serotonin in the system for longer (even though people with depression generally have normal or even high levels of serotonin in their body), it actually works by over the course of weeks changing the hippocampus. People with major depressive disorder have a shrunken and disfunctional hippocampus which for whatever reason is reversed to a more normal hippocampus when a SSRI is used. This is also why you can't just pop a SSRI for the first time and expect to feel happier and why it doesn't help those without the illness feel happier.
If anyone wants a link for any of this just ask and I can find them
>>8079052
It's just an inbalance of brain chemicals, nothing can be done to fix it really, anti-depressions have a really low success rate
>>8079800
>brain chemical imbalance
I hear this thrown around so much but never any expounding. What does it really mean?
brain inflammation
hormone imbalance
cognitive dissonance
>>8079813
It's as broad of a term when referring to neural conditions as it's a blood problem when referring to cardiovascular disorders. Most medication to treat disorders involve increasing the amount of certain neurotransmitters so people naturally assume that it is caused by an imbalance that the medication is restoring but as I said in >>8079677 that is not always the case. Some disorders like bipolar do seem to be caused by neurotransmitter imbalances in the form of glutamate (and dopamine et all due to the glutamate imbalance) but depression does not seem to be one to any large degree.
>>8079677
>left side right side... Etc
So does that mean left handed people are more likely to be depressed?
>>8079851
You're referring to how people who are left handed are more likely to have a mirrored brain? No when I was using the terms like left and right I was referring to the typical brain based on the left side having Broca's and Wernickies and all. If they had a mirrored brain then you would need to flip my left and right terms as well.
>>8079083
ouch
>>8079052
>real
>involves the mind
Maybe we need a different word to categorize that which is perceptible but has no physical analogue.
>>8079284
>evolutionary explanation.
Doesn't really make sense.
Evolutionary selection requires survival and breeding. You could argue that genetically close groups with suiciders survived better but given the relative rarity of suicides that's still quite unlikely.
>>8080316
Oh look, there's someone sane in this thread.
Just wanted to make sure there were at least two of us before moving on.
>>8080316
I mean, the thoughts exist somewhere. Theyre as real as a website on a server.
>>8080533
just wanted to clarify
i mean that in the sense that our processing is obviously going on inside our head. memories aren't "stored offsite" or whatever.
we just lack the ability to effectively and accurately read memories, for now.
>>8080549
Really most neuroscience it pointing towards that memories are not stored at all but simply recreated in the brain. Whenever we remembering something, the brain activity activates to mimick to what the activity it was during the time whatever was being remembered was learned.
This helps explain state learning where if you learn something drunk then it's easier to remember it if you are drunk. Your brain activity while drunk is hard to mimic while sober. Remember that next time you study while drinking.
>>8081044
had this tab open
anyways, that's pretty neat. i didn't know that, but it explains a lot of things.
i watched a TON of trump videos on adderall and every time i watch them again i get the full body waves of chills like i usually do on addy, even though i'm not on it
that's neat though. i really would love to see us develop a functioning model of working memory in the human brain.
>>8079677
Could you expand on/link to what goes wrong in the hippocampus?
>>8079284
What the fuck is this picture, do you know you have psychosis?
>>8081158
Sure but I'm about to go onto a 3.5 hour ride back home so it'll be a bit before I can respond with the links.
If this thread dies before I make it back, I doubt it will, I'll start a new thread about it.
It's the questions.
Without them the problems would not exist.
The problems are imaginary.
The questions are the devil which tortures us.
We must fight the questions, not the problems.
https://www.google.com.br/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=dopamine+desensitization
Consider this: you are walking down the street, some lad you knew asks you "How are you doing?", and you say "Well and good". Now, considering you have things to do, goals to meet, money to make, hobbies to develop, basically considering the amount of things you have to be or do, and that you desire these things, and that every desire is obviously painful, you are, in no meaning of the words,"Well" nor "Good". Now consider we all say "Well and Good" to these questions, but we all also have goals, jobs, hobbies, tasks and etc. This is a contradiction. We can't answer "Well!" nor "Good!" to these questions otherwise we are massively rewarding our brains with Dopamine! And if we do this on a daily basis, we are effectively desensitizing receptors! This mindset that basically nirvana, or being "alright", is something we can talk about implies we are internally getting high often and before the time! Destruction caused by this happens on any scale, hedonism is a trait of a falling civilization, the next step is nihilism, war, then back to... tribalism, civilization, hedonism etc
>>8081273
>Saying "Well!" or "Good!" releases Dopamine
>>8079052
Definitely a real illness, but it is diagnosed so ridiculously often that I can rarely take it seriously. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that 1/3 of the people I know are prescribed antidepressants.
When I went through opiate withdrawal, my doctor wanted to prescribe an SSRI that wouldn't really be active for a few weeks, even though I knew that the depressed stage of withdrawal would be over within the first week.
I think Depression is actually for the most part just physiological and social behaviour which could also be seen as physiological.
For instance, ask a depressed person if they have:
- eaten
- showered
- did some satisfying work (mental)
- did something satisfying regarding the body like sports etc.
- drank enough water
- relieved stress (through hobbies etc)
- met with people they like and which support them in their lifestyle
- are you happy with your lifestyle, if not change something about it
That's it for the most part. Yeah I understand that there can be more reasons etc like inflammation or reduced brain regions or chemical imbalances but in my opinion most of the depressed people would not be depressed if these factors would be appreciated enough
>>8081273
Excuse me while I get high
"Well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good well good"
Oh man I'm really feeling this shit guys. You gotta try this.
>>8081273
>https://www.google.com.br/search?client=ubuntu
lol nice botnet
>>8081273
Continuing
After days of over-releasing dopamine, desensitization takes place. The first aspect of dopamine rush is euphoria/mania, something we often do in social environments and alone, and it is not looked bad upon unless it is an extreme, clear, case. Eventually, we all get tired of it, but we forget the mistakes that we make that are similar to those of lower cognition due to psychosis. This self-induced mania is similar to what is called "Stimulant Psychosis". Currently, for example, there are already 3 studies that relate low caffeine usage with psychosis symptoms, yet these go unperceived, under the radar most of the time, and you would think to yourself of these events such thoughts: "you were just having fun", "mistakes are normal" etc. Anyway, we get tired of it, and by getting tired of it, I mean a "come down" happens, by tolerance and lower blood levels of dopamine. After a few days, the daily retrospection shows us that we are in fact getting sad, even though our brains doing the same old "fun and games" thing everyday. The daily retrospection causes two things then: one, a radical increase in "Fun activity", and by radical I mean new occupations with varied adrenaline inducing activity and not only the increase of the same activity expected from mindless desensitization; two, pessimism. Sheer and pure pessimism is expected, all your senses will tell you that satisfaction with life is going downhill, so you are getting ready for a great horror show that is inescapable, inexorable, impending, and deeply imminent somehow. Your mind constantly reminds you of this and call it "reality", your experience tells you this and you are just plain angry and waiting for kicks.
>>8081328
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVVH51wctLc
>>8081342
It identifies as "ubuntu" what is actually Lubuntu
>>8081380
lol yeah well nice, uh, nice
>>8079065
>ANECDOTE ALERT
Well all the depressed people I know are sedentary yes.
Also I'm the only slim person in my family which are full of depressed people. I don't feel depressed but i probably would be if i let myself go
>>8081158
>>8081220
I'm finally back.
Just for convenience I'm only going to be putting the last names and dates of the studies since I'm getting the list from a book but last time I looked I was able to find them all with just basic google searching.
So I'm sure you already know about how the hippocampus is connected to learning and emotion. Well it is found that those with major depressive disorder have a smaller sized hippocampus. This seems to be because they have lower amounts of what is called brain derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) which is important for the functioning of the hippocampus. These low levels of BDNF cause the shrinking and for the decreased functioning in synaptic plasticity, learning and proliferation of new neurons in the hippocampus (Sen, Duman, & Sanacora, 2008).
SSRIs and other anti depressive medications seem to reverse this process and restore the hippocampus's size and function. When you block the ability of the brain to produce new neurons outright, these medications no longer have any behavioral changes which suggest the main benefit comes from allowing the hippocampus to produce more cells (Airan et al., 2008). How this actually happens is still questionable. Some studies have shown that SSRIs increase the amount of BDNF in the brain after a few weeks, which is how long the drugs take to actually do anything, while others have failed to find this result. Also studies which directly administered BDNF still could not replicate the full beneficial effects of the medications.
This jumble of data gives rise to many interesting theories with one being that this may explain more than anything else, the persistent mind frame of depression. Perhaps the stunted hippocampus can no longer unlearn the depressive behavioral activities which it is now stuck with. If so, treating this problem only allows for the real healing to occur via new learning of different behavioral tendencies. But this whole paragraph is pure speculation.
>>8079255
whoa
>>8079052
Yes, it never goes away
>>8079052
Made up disease used by the pharma jew to push pills and narcissistic millenials for attention whoring.
>>8079052
>A real illness?
No.
An "illness" diagnosed by ill people
>>8084835
?
inflammation pathways go into overdrive
>>8086206
this is actually a very interesting part of it
>>8079255
Extremely well spoken. Actually one of the best presented lectures I have ever seen.
I really have to think about this. On one hand, this guy is totally right. On another hand I feel I know what the source of my depression is, and when I have addressed it in the past, it seems to get better, as in I am not satisfying a need. I guess you could say the pathology is why do I not satisfy the need, but this is where the "learned helplessness" comes in. In my situation I very much want to make a difference, I just don't see how for both physical and emotional reasons. It causes me a great deal of stress, and I haven't found a way to be ok with it. I guess this is exactly what he's talking about, but for some reason I still have a knee-jerk reaction to the thought of medication, which is somewhat embarrassing as a scientist.
I've been diagnosed with:
ADD [No H]
Social Anxiety
Major Depression
Bipolar I and II
NOS Borderline Traits
NOS Narcissistic Traits
Paranoid Personality Disorder
PTSD
Severe Depression
100% bullshit.
I was a social gadfly that questioned people's grandiosity, double standards, etc... and I was labeled "a trouble maker" and ended up being bullied and drugged.
Not only did I not report symptoms of any kind [the diagnosticians lied all over the reports], but they also lied and stated I was suicidal even though I said I wasn't.
Main reason they lied?
1.) Money [medicare, medicare and grant fraud]
2.) Munchhausen Heroism; pretending that oppressing people is a form of helping them
I was held back, segregated and expelled numerous times, being told staff didn't need "evidence" [serious problem in modern education system anyone?] and that being labeled proved [social proof; stereotyping] I was to blame for everyone elses problems.
At one point my adoptive mother called to curse me out in boarding school claiming I used witchcraft or computer hacking to hide her keys from her and place late night charges on her credit cards.
I was 2000 miles away.
Psychiatrists and Psychologists are just hyperbolic narcissists that abuse people's self esteem or social outcasts desperation.
They reject testimonies of the accused, state people are always guilty even when proven innocent, and are repulsed by the idea of having to create "tests" to prove their allegations.
Most psyche patients aren't messed up, modern society has just gotten competitive and hyper-fascist.
Do I want to be "normal" in an anti-science, anti-philosophy, anti-testing society, self-obsessed, fallacy-using?
Fuck no.
>>8086444
Take your pills schizo
>>8086445
>schizo
I have never diagnosed "schizo", and your ad hominem is just that.
>>8086444
You sound like that paranoid kid from the last thread.
You know delusions you're delusions aren't real right?
>>8086452
I have no delusions.
If people are accusing me, then the burden of proof is on them.
You can't shake me with accusations or allegations, nor conjecture.
Everything you say must be backed by evidence.
Me denying accusations is never a sign of anything.
>>8086452
>You sound like that paranoid kid from the last thread.
Are you seriously suggesting that I'm to be held accountable for someone else's actions?
>You know delusions you're delusions aren't real right?
That's not English, try again.
Chemical Imbalance Fallacies:
>Nor-epinephrine fallacy
>Serotonin fallacy
>Hormone fallacy
20:00
Lunatic claims the brains reacts the same way as when someone has been gored by an elephant... without proving it or suggesting they even looked into it.
28:30
This lunatic actually promotes Lobotomies and claims they work, even though all research proves this isn't the case.
He even tried to differentiate it from the specific Frontal Lobotomy to save face.
38:15
"...maybe treatment helps may 30-35% of depressives. It doesn't effect the majority of depressives."
39:00
He actually cites Freud.
So what you have is a guy that admits the science doesn't check out [30-35%], believes in lobotomies and Freud.
>>8086444
>>8086549
I'm not edgy in the slightest.
Telling people they're wrong and they have to prove things is never, under any circumstances, "edgy".
>Posts childish image and makes an ad hominem attack
Ooh! You got me.
Not really.
This is what is really going on in the messed up head of psychiatrists.
Pure unadulterated extreme narcissism and condescension.
>>8086533
You really don't know what the hell you're talking about.
First of all, you can't just call something a fallacy and pretend you're making an argument.
>Lunatic claims the brains reacts the same way as when someone has been gored by an elephant... without proving it or suggesting they even looked into it.
Actually he's not saying the brain reacts the same way, he's saying that your BODY is reacting the same way. He's saying your body's state is the same. And he HAS looked into it. He's dedicated his whole professional life to studying the stress response, which is exactly what he's explaining here.
>This lunatic actually promotes Lobotomies
Nope. Not sure what lecture you heard, but you heard wrong. He goes on about cingulotomy and how it can help in extreme situations, but that's mostly to prove a point about the biological workings of depression.
>maybe treatment helps may 30-35% of depressives.
Yes. And he's correct. What he's explaining is that if you simply take a biological view of the disease (treating the brain with drugs), you're completely ignoring the psychological side of it which is equally if not more important. To see it as a purely biological or purely psychological condition is a mistake. That's pretty much the point of his lecture.
>He actually cites Freud.
That's not an argument. Why don't you try refuting what he said about the Freudian view of melancholia / guilt. "Aggression turned inward"
>>8086693
Look at this ANCHORING HEURISTICS "defend the authority!" anti-science bullshit.
>First of all, you can't just call something a fallacy and pretend you're making an argument.
Actually, well known concepts in the field don't need to be argued. They're called principals.
The "chemical imbalance myth" isn't supported by the scientific consensus, and no one needs to go on more billions of pages with copypasta.
The ______ fallacy concept is used in epistemology discussions in such a way that people are supposed to do cross comparative analysis and research on their own time, as to not waste the time of people more educated than them.
*sigh*
>Actually he's not saying the brain reacts the same way, he's saying that your BODY is reacting the same way.
That doesn't change the fact it's a lie because they haven't studied what bodies or minds go through when impaled by elephants, he just jumps to that assumption.
You can't make a claim without testing it.
That's how science works. In fact, that's only how science works.
>Cingulotomy and how it can help in extreme situations, but that's mostly to prove a point about the biological workings of depression.
Which is a type of lobotomy, which have been proven ineffective. He also goes on to state it's just basically brain damage and doesn't fix anything, it just causes more problems.
>Yes. And he's correct. What he's explaining
Blah blah blah... aka, he's full of shit and you're a authority-fanboy who doesn't understand only science is an authority, conjecture is never authority, nor are the unproven claims of ANY humans.
*yawn*
>That's not an argument.
Yes it is. Nothing freud or anyone in the social science have offered proof, evidence nor scientific laws to support their bizarre claims.
No proof? Not science.
>>8079056
>nothing to do with 'chemical balance in the brain' or any of that junk
How can it not be a chemical imbalance in the brain? It's chemicals that make us feel happy and sad - it's chemicals that make us feel anything.
Given what we know about chemicals like dopamine, seratonin, oxytocin, norepinephrine, etc., it stands to reason that a prolonged depressive episode with no discernible environmental stimuli causing it must have something to do with a chemical imbalance.
>>8079052
ITT: obviously depressed people. Therefore depression is a real illness mofo.
>>8079052
I think depression is over diagnosed. A lot of times its from a false sense of entitlement. I do think depression is real, but I also think a lot of people are fucking crybabies.
>>8086830
NO NO NO NO.
It's [environmental] stimulus that triggers our brain that then triggers both chemical reactions AND our thought process.
THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED A "REACTION".
WHY IS SCI FILLED WITH STUPID PEOPLE?!
What is it: An umbrella term for not liking things and not reacting to things.
Real Illness: About 30% of time. The remaining 70% is just rational people having concerns that aren't being addressed appropriately, but the those with better lives think they should just shut up.
Personal Experience: I've been diagnosed. I don't think I have a brain disease. My complaints are rational and backed by scientific data.
Causes: Memories of bad things, and knowledge of bad things to come.
>>8086846
What I was referring to was the type of depressive episodes which people experience when nothing is going wrong in their life - hence, there is no DISCERNIBLE environmental stimuli causing the depression. How fucking dumb are you?
>>8086855
But that account for only 30% of so called depressives.
The "out of the blue" blues doesn't affect the majority of those diagnosed.
You can't take the smallest minority of a subject and cry
>EUREKA! It's X!
Stop spreading misinformation, you gigantic probably-caused-the-deaths-of-dozens-of-people asshole.
LOOSE LIPS KILL PEOPLE
Seriously. Millions die of iatrogenesis and misinformation every year.
Stop being a jackass.
>>8086846
There are a lot of people with a huge problem to explain why they have a depression while everything seems perfect.
>>8086869
The minority is not the majority.
Also, the statistics lie.
I was told I said I was depressed on my medical files.
I never said that. Decades went by and I said I wasn't again, and they recorded that, but said I must have severe depression because I said I wasn't depressed.
They institutionalized me and charged the tax payers $40,000 for a 10 day stay where that just threatened me, laughed at me, and made up lies about my past on the paperwork.
Psychiatry is a hoax when it comes to the diagnostic process, and that's an absolute fact.
It's a hoax used to commit fraud to fain access to money and control others.
That's the Government's opinion, as they created the HEAT Task Force as they have arrested hundreds of psychiatrists and psychiatric nurses for abuse, cooking the books and bribing officials.
Over 2 billion dollars are wasted a year on psychiatric fraud alone, the highest fraud that has been discovered in human history.
About 10% of people diagnosed are actually ill.
The remaining 90% are just bullied for reporting bullying or social ills.
Deal with the truth, as modern psychiatry isn't going to be here long with all the arrests and de-certification going on.
>>8086864
What the actual fuck are you talking about? Seriously - all I'm saying is that there is clearly a chemical/biological aspect to major depression. Are you trolling or something?
>>8086890
[...continuing]
Also, psychiatrists that hear about exploitation, abuse and lying on records often EXCUSE that behavior, citing psychopathic machiavellian beliefs that the ends justify the means to spread the practice, control and influence of their trade.
It's pure psychopathic narcissism, and there are arrest, court and medical records to prove it without a doubt.
If you support a corrupt practice then you don't support science.
Science is only about truth, not money, control or narcissistic dreams.
>>8086893
Ad hominem attack.
The HEAT Taskforce is a Government Task Force used to take down fraud in the Medical Field.
On average they take down 200 doctors and medical staff a year, and over 80% of that are those in the psychiatric field.
In psychiatric journals their compatriots often resort to "is it really wrong to commit fraud for money or to help someone by abusing them" nonsense.
Facts are facts.
Your ad hominem is irrational.
>>8086899
Does it suck screaming so loudly for so long only to realize no one is listening? It must really suck. I'm sorry man.
>>8086902
>a reddit thread
>facts
Jesus Christ what has this board come to...
>>8086901
I'm not screaming.
HEAT Task Force is how the officials capitalized it.
You would know that if you were intelligent and looked it up.
Do you have more personal attacks?
Yes, because you're pro-psychiatry and a troll.
Fun fact: you can't stop using ad hominem attacks.
>>8086901
Does it suck being a psychopath that doesn't understand either the scientific method or the socratic method?
>>8086907
More pro-psychology/therapy, actually. Psychiatry leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
You're still an autistic psychopath ;)
>>8086906
what are you taking about
>>8086901
Gaslighting doesn't work online, especially with people that have genius IQs.
If anon knows what fallacies are, then you can't troll them.
That's an infallible fact.
>>8086909
I've made two posts in this thread and neither of them had anything to do with what you're attacking me on - you're just assuming shit. Not very scientific of you there, buddy.
>>8086741
I mean at this point I'm 85% sure I'm dealing with a troll, but if not you're just so damn delusional that I'm actually impressed either way.
You obviously read a book or wiki on logical fallacies recently and are trying very hard to flex that argument muscle so hard that you're intentionally ignoring perhaps the most important fallacy - the fallacy fallacy, which states that even fallacious arguments can arrive at true conclusions.
I could literally cite dozens of studies which have been peer-reviewed, utilized the most modern of scientific techniques, and which haven't been paid for by big pharma... but would that change your mind? If your answer is no, then you're not interested in evidence and hence not interested in science.
>That doesn't change the fact it's a lie because they haven't studied what bodies or minds go through when impaled by elephants, he just jumps to that assumption. You can't make a claim without testing it.
>That's how science works. In fact, that's only how science works.
You know what? I agree with you. He should have said "when bodies are under serious physical trauma", which is a situation that has been studied and tested over and over again. Instead he chose a very specific serious physical trauma that hasn't technically been studied on its own. But honestly every single person in the audience understood that he meant that the condition he was referring to was "serious physical trauma" and not SPECIFICALLY being gored by an elephant. He was saying that depression causes the same type of stress response as serious physical trauma. This has been scientifically tested. And once again I can cite numerous studies.
>Blah blah blah... aka, he's full of shit and you're a authority-fanboy
Ad hominem, homie.
Seriously dude. I'd love to see ANY evidence of what you're claiming. Double blind if possible. Peer-reviewed, please.
>>8086899
It wasn't ad hominem - it was supported by evidence.
You freely admitted that you were institutionalized. No one, I mean NO ONE just "gets institutionalized" for no reason in this day and age. You clearly had something very wrong with you. Then you go on to claim that you were ridiculed and had professionals make up "lies" about you on your paperwork? Incredibly unlikely - coming from someone who knows how the mental health field works. The only way your story is plausible is if you're from some ass backwards, shit tier third world country. Otherwise it completely reeks of delusions of persecution and grandiosity - two primary indicators of severe mental illness.
And of course you say nothing is wrong with you - anosognosia is also common in people like yourself.
The sad thing is, you will never understand or be able to see any of this - as your mental illness prevents you from doing so. So please, continue if it makes you feel better.
>>8086533
no m8
>>8090128
Why does your life objectively suck?
>>8090128
Depends on how you internalize that, I suppose.
>>8090129
Don't enable the bloggers you faggot
>>8088648
>No one, I mean NO ONE just "gets institutionalized" for no reason in this day and age.
Ok, so first of all, you're using fallacies
1.) Personal incredulity
2.) False dilemma
3.) Argument from Ignorance
4.) Circular Logic
5.) Anchoring
6.) System Justification
Secondly, they let me go immediately the second time because the doctors DID SAY the police lied, and I have the paperwork to back that up.
Third, it is a fact that people are institutionalized for no reason all the time, which is proven by arrests by the HEAT Taskforce, so you're delusional for claiming it doesn't exist:
https://www.stopmedicarefraud.gov/aboutfraud/heattaskforce/
Not to mention issues discovered via the Rosenhan Experiment.
So my personal story aside, facts are facts, and the HEAT Taskforce and the Rosenhan Experiment are facts of reality.
In regards to my personal story, btw, you obsession with using fallacies to reach pre-conceived notions is psychotic and irrational.
You have no right to ever use the argument of ignorance in any capacity at any time.
To state no one makes errors in a system shows exactly how people like you in the system have completely broken down when it comes to understanding reason.
So use you fallacies.
Use bulverism.
Use stereotyping.
Use confirmation bias.
Use circular logic.
Go round and round and round all you want.
But you have no facts, you have no objective data.
And using anosognosia to gaslight me?
Please.
Unlike you I know what these are:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_memory_biases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_psychological_effects
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuristic…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquiescence_bias
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_hegemony
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindguard
>>8087222
>I mean at this point I'm 85% sure I'm dealing with a troll
Ad hominem
>You obviously read a book or wiki on logical fallacies recently
Really? My 8 year old twitter account says otherwise.
>the fallacy fallacy
I'm not saying your conclusions aren't right, I'm saying your argument doesn't support your conclusion.
>I could literally cite dozens of studies which have been peer-reviewed, utilized the most modern of scientific techniques, and which haven't been paid for by big pharma... but would that change your mind? If your answer is no, then you're not interested in evidence and hence not interested in science.
It's an absolute fact, according the NIMH, that there are no such studies.
>He was saying that depression causes the same type of stress response as serious physical trauma. This has been scientifically tested. And once again I can cite numerous studies.
Prove it then.
>Ad hominem, homie.
Nope, that's a ad hominem fallacy fallacy.
I didn't say that. You can't misquote me and change my text to use a reductio ab absurdum fallacy.
>Seriously dude. I'd love to see ANY evidence of what you're claiming. Double blind if possible. Peer-reviewed, please.
You use the word "dude", so it's obvious you're not a 30+ year old adult.
You haven't done any research at all into the field of psychiatry.
I used to be just like you. I used to buy the hype and believed I could just PRESUME there were all these studies because I saw similar concepts where the word "implies" and "could mean" and "may soon", only to find out they were bullshit... and prominent psychiatrists and psychologists called them out on it.
The bio-bio-bio model is reject by the APA, NIMH and WHO. They use the Bio-Psycho-Social model.
I've read the DSM. I've read the reports by the APA, NIMH and WHO *and* I've researched the counter-arguments and scientific debunking of common psychiatric claims.
You have no idea what you're talking about and you haven't done your research.
>>8088648
>YOU HAVE TO PROVE YOUR INNOCENCE
>GUILTY EVEN IF PROVEN INNOCENT
>EVIDENCE ISN'T ALLOWED
Is this seriously how psychiatric supporters think?
Geeze. It's worse than I thought.
>>8091367
it's scary how rabid they are isn't it
>>8091366
I'm not misusing ad hominem.
Ad hominem is when someone insults you to dismiss an argument.
You can insult someone and it not be an ad hominem if they also counter your argument.
He never did that.
He just called me "skitzo" and "troll" and used it to shift the burden of proof.
I'm the guy that made this infographic.
I've studied Epistemology, Empiricism, The Scientific Method and The Socratic Method for decades.
Unlike some people here, I didn't just learn of the phase "logic fallacies" in the past few years and then misapply everything here.
>>8091357
OK first of all, you're using fallacies.
1.) Argument from fallacy.
That's what you've been using this entire discussion. It's all you know. I bet you have that "logical fallacy handbook" page bookmarked.
>they let me go immediately the second time
Jesus - there was a SECOND time?? You are undoubtedly fucking crazy. I can see why they're trying to lock you up.
>>8091367
>>8091368
>>8091368
I'm not a psychiatric supporter, you idiots. I believe over-diagnosis and labeling theory is a huge problem. I believe over-reliance on psychiatric medication is a huge problem. I believe the psychiatric field has become a marketing ground for big pharma - that's a huge problem.
But all these points combined only point to problems within psychiatry. They do not discount the profession as a whole, nor do they completely discredit the numerous studies that clearly show a link between biology/neurology and mental illness.
I also believe that there is a person ITT who is batshit crazy who is one of the very rare people who probably needs to be on psychiatric medication.
>>8091368
Hilarious how you accuse one person of being rabid in defending their viewpoint when the anti-psychiatry people (Scientologists included) are literally the most rabid, angy keyboard warriors on the internet.
>>8092422
>Argument from fallacy
Not even that guy, but..... did you wiki that? Did you scroll down a little more to the example that you're committing right now?
>Counterargument[edit]
>Joe: Bill's assumption that Ginger is not a cat uses the argument from fallacy. Therefore, Ginger absolutely must be a cat.
You're a fucking moron, and it's embarassing to watch you flounder against someone giving you so many openings. So please stop trying.
>>8079083
>meme.jpg
dont be mislead by this graphic meme anons this statistic includes analgesics and fucking diabetic perscriptions
>>8092449
Hey, I've seen crazy anti-psych, but I've also seen sane people (in person) very literally abused by psych, and the person I accused of being rabid has made up their mind to call someone schizo based on like two details of some anon?
(If any of that is inaccurate, it's because 10 hours later I no longer give a shit. Go figure.)
>>8092450
>not even that guy
Christ this thread reeks of samefag. I've taken every opening you've given me and been laughing my ass off as a result. At least I haven't been committed to a nuthouse twice, and thus formed a rabid and illogical persecution complex which I take out on an entire profession.
Fuck yourself with a rusty railroad spike. You'll never be sane and no one will ever love you.
>>8092466
I never called anyone schizo you dumb faggot - I pointed out some nifty diagnostic qualifiers from my trusty and awesome DSM 5.
U mad son?
Fuck sci I was supposed to be studying hours ago but I spent my time watching videos of people dying, and I'm too scared to go out now because I might die in the stupidest way ever and all the study I've done will amount to shit.
>>8093061
den u got da rong guy son
and iunnevenno what makes you feel fit to insult me when you are so lost itt
>>8093100
Maybe you are just tired anon
>>8094058
this, get some sleep, all of you
>>8093100
>but I spent my time watching videos of people dying
Legitimately started laughing. Thanks anon.
What a shitfest of a thread. Here, have a nice picture if a dog.
>>8095807
that schizo killed it with his highschool-tier argument calling. anyways thanks for the dog, it's a very nice one
>>8079052
I cannot be depressed because I know the future is bright if I get through the bullshit.
What does the present matter when ultimately I will be successful? That is if I will.
>>8095977
Report back in a few years when the if still hasn't happened and the quarter-life crisis sets in
>>8079065
Might be genetic chemical imbalances. Get yourself to a proper doctor. Never self diagnose.
>>8079052
> Me
> 22
> no gf for more than 3 years
> depressed af
> panic syndrom
> taking meds for 1 year
> It's like my heart hurts
> why is this happening.jpg
> go to a party
> meet a girl
> I really, really like her
> I'm in love
> Suddenly I feel different
> Now I wake up early thinking of her
> No pains in my heart
> I feel so much more motivated
> I'm so confident of myself that I plan on dropping the meds soon
wew, guess when we're alone we get depressed guys. We just need someone to pregnate.
update:
> me right now
> not sure if she really likes me like I do
> Today I will stop texting her to see if she texts me back
> I'm really, really looking into it
> Just by thinking she doesn't like me makes me so sad
> There's still hope tho
Hopefully she talks to me /sci/
>>8096020
You can't fix anxiety with medication. Only control the symptoms. Depression and anxiety are linked yes, but daily anxiety for no reason can be cured without medication.
>>8096024
> daily anxiety for no reason can be cured without medication
wew lad, I'm taking Escitalopram and it really really helped me to get out of the deep shit-hole I was.
But what are your secrets, my lad?
>>8096027
Anxiety is actually not a chemical problem but a nerve problem. It's one of habit. Your brain (a very old part of it) keeps firing signals that you are in danger and sends these anxiety signals to your nerves that you are in danger. You keep validating it through your actions (worry). thus it keeps happening. Medication will only stop the symptoms while you are drugged, it won't ever get rid of the problem. The side effects aren't worth it either.
Anxiety leaves when you no longer see it as a problem. When you feel anxious, accept it and move on with your life no matter how unpleasant it feels. It is just your nerves being sick. When your leg is broken you don't fix it by running on it, you fix it by doing nothing. Like wise, with anxiety you don't fix it by being anxious, you fix it by doing nothing. When you feel anxious, invite that motherfucker in, let him put his feet up on the couch. Make dinner for the motherfucker and just go on with yourself. Eventually your body will no longer see you as being in danger (since anxiety keeps our body thinking we are in danger thus producing more anxiety, causing this endless loop). Bottom line. Don't fight it anymore, let it come, let it hurt, you won't die and go on with your life. Anxiety won't kill you so why give it credence? for more read "at last a life" by paul david
>>8095977
>What does the present matter when ultimately I will be successful?
Ultimately you will be dead, sharing the same state of non-existence and insignificance that everybody else from high school janitors to wealthy businessmen will return to.
>>8096031
That's comforting, actually.
>>8079052
On the mind: if you believe it is as it is...it is.
If one believes it is a lack of God.
It is.
If you believe it is a lack of will.
It is.
If you believe it is a chemical imbalance.
It is.
But one must believe it is.
On matters of the physical body.
Hell naw m8 get vaccinated and shieet.
>>8096028
wow, thanks for the advice anon! Next time I feel those shitty heart attack symptoms I will fight the motherfucker. Man, I did EVERY FUCKING heart exam there is, and I'm fucking fine, but my fucking brain keeps telling me I will have a heart attack.
It went out of control, to the point I even texted my parents my last words (I was so fucking sure I was fucking dead, all my limbs got dormant). Went to the fucking emergency and... fucking nothing, they gave me some heavy shit to make me sleep and I felt fine again...
I couldn't even look at their faces, I was so ashamed, then I started the meds, it really helped a lot, I was so fucking fucked.
I will stop the meds, and next time it comes I will do as you said, invite the fucker to have dinner, let's see if it can really kill me!
I just hope I'm strong enough for this.
> "at last a life"
Thanks for the advice anon! I will read it!
>>8096037
Ask your doctor if you think you should stop the meds. It sounds like you still have moments of anxiety and depression over day to day shit. Try what I wrote, but don't just stop taking your meds until your doctor says so or until you're confident you don't need them.
>>8096040
Sure dude I talked to my doctor, I will drop it by gradually reducing the dosage. He's fine with it and I'm ok already.
>be Bipolar (II)
>unmedicated because daddy said so
>mfw I barely survive the three month episodes of unironically crippling depression
>serious cognitive impairment and racing thoughts
>no friends or social skills
>still have a 3.2 GPA
I am sure that if I started taking my medication again I would have a 4.0 (or very close).
>>8096050
how does it feel being a bipolar? Is it like being two persons?
Also remember: 4chan is your friend.
>>8096054
>Is it like being two persons?
Yes and no. Depressive episodes can be very long (2 - 3 months). They come unprovoked, I could be making a sandwich and suddenly feel hopeless (not memeing). It takes me all day to do one assignment if I'm depressed. Although the cognitive impairment is always there. I can barely do mental math anymore or remember anything and struggle to form coherent sentences. Hypomania only last like a week for me and occurs like two times a year. It usually starts with me starting a project or a goal that I can't complete because the depression always returns. I don't get any sleep during those times and I have legit stayed up to 4 in the morning fapping twice. I haven't had any legit suicide attempts in two years although when I was younger I was much more determined to kill myself (starting in Elementary school). You can't really enjoy anything because you know depression is always around the the corner and you will get fucked over. At least I don't have Bipolar I, you can hide the depression but you can't hide mania.
>>8096093
would you wife a grill as fucked as you? Do you think you both could live together or you'd rather live alone?
>>8096156
Hell no. I can barely manage myself I can't imagine another burden. I know nothing about genetics but I'm pretty sure two Bipolar people having a child is a horrible idea.
>>8079052
depression is just a meme
its a thing that lazy people say they have to skip work
please dont post psychology on sci, go to b for that.
>>8096196
>depression is just a meme
No. You're an idiot.
>its a thing that lazy people say they have to skip work
No. You're an idiot.
>please dont post psychology on sci, go to b for that.
No. You're an idiot.
Fuck Off.
>>8096031
That's not depressing
Can I stop working while getting paid if I say I'm depressed ?
>>8096978
Only if you end up in the hospital
t. personal experience
>>8079052
It's an illness if you think it is, it's not if you don't. That's not pretentiousness either, it puts the nature of the situation into the terms it belongs in.
All I'll say is that you should default to framing it as "I am depressed" rather than "I have depression". It makes as much sense as "I have mania" or "I have hungry!!" Depression is a state, not a trait. And anyone telling you otherwise is lying to you.
Humans are machines, made of smaller machines, that manufacture yet smaller machines. You cannot take a strictly mechanistic approach to defining a mental state without also acknowledge that the person themselves is that very machine. Treating depression solely as a mechanical failure makes as much sense as saying people can't force their moods or choose when to access memories. Obviously they can. Obviously the psyche is a series of parts and not a core processor, and thus, the machinery of the mind, and its feedback loops, working in conjunction generates many of your high level experiences. You are that which experiences, as well as that which generates, to an extent.
Short version. Don't label yourself as broken, or part of a group. Find and reconcile your real problems, and if you can't, find a way to move on. Things that should be viewed as mecahnical problems are things like poor diet, sleep, exercise, or food allergies. For the lattermost, histamine is a modulatory neurotransmitter and your mast cells chronically dumping it out everywhere will fuck you up, hard.
Good luck. The problem with modern society is that shit ideas get to take root and sustain themselves. Psychiatry is an old world relic that needs to die in favor of nutrition, decent talk therapy, and cognitive behavioral therapy.
>>8097028
>Psychiatry is an old world relic that needs to die in favor of nutrition, decent talk therapy, and cognitive behavioral therapy.
All of those are used in psychiatry and some more. Stop using scientology phamplets as a source for anything.
I can only really know what depression is like if I can describe what makes people act the way they do when they're not depressed.
>>8086848
>>8079075
this seems like what makes the most sense to me.
For a lot of the people that are in depressed states today, it's probably because their lives are not capable of facilitating enjoyable life.
I mean, people in the past have been miserable, too, but at least they felt that their misfortune was due to either not working hard enough, or because there was some enemy - either people or forces of nature - that was putting them down.
In the modern age, our science, our morality, and just reality all want to keep our egos small. Out of 7 billion people, we are just one person, with a strong likelihood that millions of people are better than you at most of the things you do, and probably hundreds who are better at the thing you're the best at.
Even if you were the best person in the world at something, you can't do anything important. At your most heroic, you might get a little trophy and 10k likes on an upworthy page on facebook.
You've got your ego bruised up by truths about the world, and you start to get the suspicion that nothing you could possibly do really matters in the end.
what does it mean to matter? that's a good question - hit the philosophy books. They don't help.
If nothing matters, why should I do anything? Maybe I'll do it because I'm supposed to, I'm expected to, but I don't really want to.
Some people get depressed, others don't. The ones who aren't depressed find joy in things like people, sensations, petty revenge, or being patted on the back for donating money to some charity somewhere.
People who will only feel good and comfortable about themselves when they have the power to actually affect the things that matter to them - and maybe be respected for that power - will find themselves in a tough spot. If they reach for power, they will be seen as greedy. If they don't, they will feel depressed.
>>8097098
even once they reach a point of power, the messages about how powerless we ultimately are will still ring through us.
The power they have may not be enough to do anything useful.
The system itself may be too complicated for you to figure out - in which case it's time for you to beat yourself up about your lack of brains.
And you often run the risk, in today's society of huge human impacts, of creating more significant problems for the world than you do solutions.
Imagine what Einstein must have felt, contemplating how real the prospect of annihilation of the human species was, due partially to his own work in physics.
The possibility of putting every person on the planet at risk - that might outweigh the pride he felt in explaining a few equations.
So, maybe it makes the most sense to just do... nothing. Don't try, because even a success would be meaningless. You can enjoy slowly watching the stars burn out, waiting until you peacefully expi-
wait! your family members are getting concerned about you! they want to know why you don't do >things<
people start to say and do things that insinuate that your new behavior is a problem, that it should be fixed,
you go to a doctor, get diagnosed with depression, maybe get some medications. People are always telling you to do things now.
You get made to feel like shit for not wanting to do them. You feel like shit for not enjoying it when you do the things you were supposed to do.
Now, life is actual pain. You need to make money, you need to smile at people.
maybe your conclusions were wrong? these people don't seem to feel the way you do.
You try to convince yourself that it was wrong to feel that things are pointless. But nothing really strikes you as persuasive... at least, not for more than a couple minutes. maybe a day or two. heck, there was an entire month when you thought you would be happy if you were in love, but then realized you wouldn't.
where was the flaw in your judgement? how soon can this just end?
>>8096670
>>8079800
>nothing can be done to fix it really
www.sciencealert.com/ketamine-found-to-have-an-unbelievable-effect-in-treating-severe-depression
There are different causes for them, some simply cant get happy as their brains cant produce as much neurotransmitters in the brain.
I have seen all kind of depressed people some are depressed because they have unhealthy living styles and others are depressed from a trauma, there are alot that can cause it.
Is it a disease?
That question kind of reminds me of both types of diabetes.
Other one is cause by genetics more and the other one caused more by life style.
My thoughts/experiences caused by my environment trigger my brain to produce chems and make me depressed or happy,those with fucked brains skip the first action and are just chronically depressed,but can someone be chromatically happy? idk maybe
That's my thoughts on the matter anyway,Iv been depressed for the last afew days but I bounce back from going out into the sun,riding my bike,reading,drawing and visiting my friends close by, however other people I seen personally that are in a constant state of stress and have no stimuli to help them counter act the stress aren't so lucky and stay in a hole with little escape, trapped in a whirlpool made by themselves or cause by others around them by circumstance.
>>8098965
But interestingly enough, ketamine makes depression worse in those who are bipolar along with their manic phases.
depression is a forced meme
>>8081438
I feel fucking down all the time and I am very active.
Although when I practice martial arts is the only time of the day when I feel fine.
Didn't read the thread, but eating healthy has a lot to do with it.
>You are what you eat.
>>8104419
>didn't read the thread
Into the trash you went
>>8104419
>didn't read the thread
Into the trash
>>8079065
>Since then I've been wondering if there's some link between the increasingly sedentary lifestyles of people and the raise in the prevalence of depression.
There is
>>8104867
are there any studies on this correlation?
>>8106587
not the poster but there would be studies showing a correlation simply because they may be symptoms of depression ie. social withdrawal, not enjoying activities. so the correlation doesn't really mean anything,
not that anyone asked but i'll put out what i've picked up from experience and research.
what works in treatment? not the therapy, but the fact you are talking with an empathetic caring person. there are larger effect sizes in CBT groups, but recent studies show the cognitive restructuring component have no significant effect, so it's just the behavioural component (eg. graded exposure/actually doing shit).
from that we can gather social support and doing rewarding things are important. additionally, nutrition and exercise show the same if not more effect than antidepressants + therapy. from that you can gather nutrition and exercise is extremely important.
i could go on, but eat properly (do not underestimate the importance of this), make exercise your lifestyle (you are human after all), make a social effort and consistently do rewarding things. it takes years to overcome, treat it as a weightlifting program, linear progress, one day at a time and BE PATIENT.
these are the essentials, there is a shitload more but can't be bothered unless someone wants to hear more. I still have no friends but I do all the others and I no longer want to kill myself (it's been 2 years since an attempt), i'm still probably more unhappy then most people (though I still feel good), but i know if i keep progressing i'll get better then the average non-depressed person
source: 3 suicide attempts, 4 psych wards, 1 detox, diagnosed MDD, social anxiety disorder blah blah blah who cares it was all wrong anyway.
>>8106721
also i can provide actual sources if necessary and i'm post grad psych, though i think studying psych made me dumber due to the fact that my uni does not teach or really believe in evo psych which is inane
>>8079065
>"just work out!"
I hate this advice. It only works for minor depression. and only with some people anyway.
>>8106758
not really. you probably assume working out has to be some intense ordeal. just walk for 2 minutes a day for a month and build from there. preferably in a somewhat natural setting (well-being improves in nature). air quality is also conducive to good mental health.
at some point you have to stop buying into your justification that depression is too severe to treat. i had treatment resistant depression and you just have to tell yourself to harden up at some point, otherwise you will lose everything and everyone around you (it happened to me)
I've been depressed since 2009. I started taking estrogen a month ago and my depression has been completely cured since. What does /sci/ have to say about this?
>>8106778
are you female or male
>>8106766
haha I absolutely love road cycling yet when I became depressed I stopped enjoying it. Only since my depression ended have I started to enjoy it again. This is precisely why the exercise argument annoys me because I exercised loads and still got depressed. In fact once I started crying mid-ride.
The other view popular view about depression that annoys me is that it has nothing to do with obesity. I went from being a healthy eater in a cycling club to gaining 100 lbs in a year. when I stopped being depressed all the weight fell away. I'm convinced that 30% of obesity is due to depression, the other 70% is due to idle snacking.
>>8106779
male
>half the thread is people with no background knowledge/self-diagnosed depression making up their own theories
Isn't this supposed to be a science board?
you don't exercise for the sake of enjoyment. you force yourself to do it to combat the physiology of depression. eventually the enjoyment comes back
no shit fatties are depressed. i don't get your point.
>>8106787
my first question is why are you taking estrogen
>>8106785
additionally, exercise is not a cure for depression, it is part of treatment (or a "normal" part of life) . think of yourself as a primate rather than some spectacular life form above everything else and you'll realize what is important
>>8106792
Do I even need to explain this?
>>8106804
yep. trans?
>>8106791
>>8106795
No it doesn't work like that. I cycled the whole time I was depressed, I a) never enjoyed it as much as when I wasn't depressed b) It did fuck all for my depression. And I got fat after I was depressed. I assume that either you've never been depressed so are part of the "hurr it's not real" crowd or you had mild depression that was fixed by a walk in the woods so you think you can apply the same treatment to severe depression. That's literally what OP's thread is about, why society doesn't take depression seriously either straight up laughing at it or giving patronizing "solutions" such as "go for a walk" or "have a chat with friends"
>>8106805
Bingo. /sci/ says this treatment for gender dysphoria doesn't work yet I'm completely cured with no more thoughts of suicide. You know why it worked for me? Because my parents supported it, not giving me shit over it keeping my mind in turmoil.
>>8106812
you have no idea what you're talking about. i had treatment resistant depression for 5+ years cycling through bizarre amounts of medication and i've been institutionalised multiple times. I completely agree it exists, in a different way for everyone.
I am not claiming you will immediately feel better after exercise, but you sure as fuck will feel worse if you don't.
ofcourse there is no one size fits all, but there are universals, such as the fact you are a primate. you need to eat, you need to exercise, you need friends etc. that is true for everyone who is not an extreme outlier.
i am not claiming it will cure you, but i am claiming if you don't do these things you will get worse. name one person who ate shitty food, sat at a computer all day and did not talk to anyone who miraculously overcame depression.
>>8106823
makes sense. i'm guessing the changes from estrogen (physical and cognitive) were more in line with your self concept as well?
why, when obvious, logical, evidence based treatments for depressed peoples are presented, do they say, every time, i am a special snowflake and it does not work. it is like studies with obese people who constantly claim, "i don't know why i am so fat, i don't eat much",though when there caloric intake is monitored, they severely underestimate self-reported dietary habits. depressed people almost never give things a good go, i know this, because i have been severely depressed. you can't claim something doesn't work because you don't get immediate results you moron
>>8106834
Do you hear yourself right now? You're dismissing my anecdote based on your anecdote. My anecdote says it didn't help at all, your anecdote says it helped. Why does your anecdote speak for everyone if mine doesn't?
>name one person who ate shitty food, sat at a computer all day and did not talk to anyone who miraculously overcame depression.
Me. My depression ended due to reasons unrelated to diet and lifestyle.
>>8106851
>The treatment doesn't work
>Blame the patient
10/10
Your comparison to obese people is retarded, if an obese person reports their diet isn't working it's because they aren't on the diet as you said. Therefore for your comparison to depression to be valid you must be insinuating that they weren't really taking their pills as prescribed. What do you base this on? Your own prejudice?
>>8106842
yes, I feel more like "me" if that makes any sense
>>8106887
>>8106897
jesus, can you people not read or do you selectively misinterpret. the fact of the matter is, something works for depressed people, if you don't do that something (which is different in every case), you will not improve your symptoms. in the case of improvements happening miraculously, unrelated to lifestyle, i'm assuming it was socio-situational and the situation changed, and you got better. wouldn't lifestyle changes have helped you cope with your situation better? ie. don't you think, if event X happens, and you simultaneously cut off all contact with friends, stop involvement with hobbies etc (due to symptoms such as anhedonia), event X will seem much worse, thus symptoms get worse? i never claimed it was a cure, but what i am claiming is symptoms will get worse if you don't force yourself to do things such as eat well, because you have less of an ability to cope when you are functioning below your potential (related to lifestyle choices).
claiming eating properly and exercising won't help your body and brain (even if you don't feel it) makes no sense. and to stop doing those things because you feel no improvement in symptoms is due to depressive thinking? hence should be avoided
>>8106910
yeah, it is exactly what i'd expect with trans people getting on hormone replacement. it's good you have the support of family also.
>>8106918
From your post >>8106766
>"stop buying into your justification that depression is too severe to treat."
>"you just have to tell yourself to harden up at some point"
You were clearly being one of those "just man up and go for a run!" faggots and now you've been BTFO you're moving the goalposts to "worth a try because it might help!" when before you were spouting it as the master cure for depression. Just fuck off man.
>>8106918
many caveats to this also, but i'll wait for the misinterpretation. extremely caffeinated and sleep deprived please ignore ad hominem attacks previously
>>8106925
they were both unrelated buddy. at some point, when nothing else works, you have to stick with something is what i am saying. you are stuck on this exercise thing, exercise and diet are examples of things to stick with, calm the fuck down.
i did not once say it was easy, which is your interpretation it seems like
>>8106925
again, master cure, your interpretation because you don't like what you are reading
>>8106925
and if my argument that doing something is better than doing nothing is wrong because people are too depressed, what is your solution? lemme guess, treat them with empathy, give them all the care in the world? what if that doesn't work? just let them be depressed? or tell them you are not going to get better without doing SOMETHING
>>8106934
>>8106935
>>8106939
I'm sure exercise helps even cancer yet when talking to a cancer patient it's not cool to focus on exercise. If you had given some psychotherapy based treatments then added exercise as a side mention then I wouldn't have been annoyed but exercise was the be all end all of your solution which is why you are being patronizing to those with severe depression.
1.) There are no empirical proofs
2.) Fallacies are used in diagnostic processes
Argument from authority
Argument from populist opinion
Argument from report
Circular reporting
Self-serving confirmation bias
Argument from ignorance
False dilemma fallacy
Circular reasoning
Personal incredulity
Cherry picking
Not even wrong fallacy
Fallacy-fallacy fallacy
Shifting the burden of proof
Bulverism
Mind projection fallacy
Etc.
3.) "Psychologist's Fallacy" was named after diagnostic process
4.) There are several prominent processionals in Psychiatry, Psychology, Sociology, Biology, etc... that completely reject the diagnostic process and the validity of the DSM's disease-manufacturing process
5.) Everytime they say they "have it this time!" it turns out they don't... but people repeat it because they presume it was proven because they used words like "soon" "implies", etc... in their articles
6.) Iatrogenesis is more common than recovery in psychiatry and psychology
7.) 80% of the Heat Task Forces arrests for fraud have been related to psychiatry
>>8081281
Real illness? I think a citation is needed with some peer reviewed studies. Not some pathetic 'psychological' opinion. Depression is just an excuse to check out from society and stop goddamn trying.
Every fuckwit with a cell phone has depression these days. We have no resilience or motivation to improve our lives.
I've been diagnosed with depression and anxiety for about a year and a half. I'm going to try to describe my situation as objectively as possible and allow whoever wants to read this decide what causes depression.
I am a 20yo rising junior at a highly selective school in the northeast. I come from an upper-middle class/"upper class" family in a southern city. My grandfather owned the largest company in the city and the 2nd largest in the state until 2007 happened. My dad is a well-connected businessman and I have a twin brother who also has depression.
My brother and I are both naturally very intelligent but socially and physically inept. From an early age, we won most academic awards in school and were dubbed "high-achievers." I usually won awards in the humanities while my brother won stem awards, though sometimes we alternated.
We've both always been very idealistic. Both of us have always loved to read and would compete with each other for for the most AR points. From age 9 I'd already decided that I wanted to write the great American novel and he wanted to become a successful doctor or businessman.
In high school, I became very disillusioned with what I saw as a society that encouraged laziness and complacency at the expense of self-development. Besides my brother and I, the only people that did well in class were fat, ugly half-autistic chicks and narcissistic, social-climbing athletes, and neither groups really cared about the subjects they were studying. Meanwhile, kids from good families were fucking around and failing their classes but everyone knew that they were going to inherit their parents' businesses and make 10x the money anyone who actually tried. So in 9th grade, I started slacking off and not giving a shit about school. I started doing drugs and doing a bunch of illegal edgy teenager shit. I ended up with a near 4.0 gpa, two class awards (one in history, the other geometry), and graduated cum laude, but compared to my brother (contd)
>>8107058
Is this thread still going on?
You need to be committed for a third time.
>Theories on causes?
Potatoes.
>>8106778
I prefer having depression than being trans.
>any personal experiences with it
Been dealing with it pretty solidly for about 4 years, before that it was on and off. No idea what causes it, but it fucking sucks. In my personal experience, it gets worse when I drink (I get happier when I start drinking, but then usually crash after a few hours and end up telling my friends way too much) but I still do it anyway. Recently started self harming again, don't do that it's stupidly addicting
>>8110355
What's the mentality behind self harming? I don't get it
>>8110525
>>8110525
Not him, buttt...
I was always told it's because pain releases endorphins, but I've also heard that pain receptors are "gated", so that you only feel one at a time, and a pain in your wrist is easier to deal with than the ache in your body.
Personally I do it to stop cyclic thoughts from getting out of control. It's almost become a reflex now.
>>8110525
I'm the guy you asked. The other anon who replied kinda has it with his first part, but for me it's slightly different.
When I was down/angry/stressed, I used to punch walls etc (but never things that could break). It was great stress relief, caused pain which helped take my mind off shit, and also left less marks which made people less questioning (plus it's a lot easier to explain away bruised knuckles than gashes along your arm).
When I came to university though, my walls were solid concrete which isn't at all relieving to punch because it just does nothing. So I ended up starting to cut. Most of my friends have the sense to ignore it luckily
>>8086917
Kys
>>8110355
know that feel, started poking holes in my arms with a pen a while back continued for a month, when parents discovered it my dad asked me nicely to stop, for his sake, told me i could call him anytime, it kinda worked, i want to hurt myself so bad but i love my dad so much that i wont :I
>>8110525
For some it's endorphin like the other anon said. Releases chemicals that some people find pleasurable.
For others, I've heard that it's a way of expressing/managing internal pain. If you're depressed and stressed out, you may not know how to deal with it. Cutting yourself is a way of making internal/emotional pain physical - something you can actually see and feel. Gives you the illusion of control over it.
>>8091371
>Confusing and insult for dismissing an argument
dude
>>8110525
its nice to feel something
>>8086890
>About 10% of people diagnosed are actually ill.
>The remaining 90% are just bullied for reporting bullying or social ills.
Nice CONJECTURE
>>8110954
I started since coming to university, really worried what my family will think when I get back. Luckily I won't be home long (me and my friends already have our house sorted, can move in whenever I want before second year starts) so I'm hoping I can hide it for however long I'm home
depression fucking sucks familoa
