>PhD student friend talks about one of his professors at uni
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>PhD student friend talks about one of his professors at uni
>prof is an active academic but also has a business one the side
>the business develops specialist software used in the field he's in
>he runs a small "Applied" MSc course about this specialist field
>most of the thesis projects his students do involve programming novel solutions and algorithms in his field
>if a student does well on such a project it usually gets turned into a paper (the code itself is open source)
>immediately afterwards (or even in parallel), the stuff developed in the project also gets incorporated into the software his business develops
>many of the employees in his business are former students of his who started working there straight after their MSc
Is this sort of thing legal/ethical? Treating your academic group as a private R&D studio/recruitment agency?
>>8033763
>is this legal
almost certainly, assuming the students gave permission
>is this ethical
yes, as ethical as internships/assumption of patents
>>8033763
The students that do it obviously want to do it otherwise they wouldn't do it. It gets them a job, so it's not stealing. How could it be unethical?
>>8033763
happens all the time. Totally legal and ethical.
>>8033775
>It gets them a job, so it's not stealing.
That just does not follow. Crooks, ripoffs and theft don't magically go away just because paperwork gets signed and filed.
>>8033787
What I meant was that they are getting paid for their work, so their work isn't being stolen. What you said is completely irrelevant.
>>8033795
>they are getting paid for their work, so their work isn't being stolen
I understand what you meant, but this isn't a linear system. It can be theft regardless of payment.
>>8033810
Only if coercion is involved.
Probably legal, surely not ethical
>>8034008
>surely not ethical
why not?
>>8034010
Because the prof likely isn't informing his students he's going to incorporate their work into his proprietary software. Truly if it were ethical he would have to inform them that he had this business, that their projects are going to be incorporated into the business' code, and they're essentially being used as free labour.
>>8033763
Should tell his students to publish their work with the GNU general public licence, and tell the news about his shady practices.
>>8034026
The software is released as open source (not sure about the specific license) alongside the theses so anyone including his competition can use it freely. It's just that he has a head-start and can make projects which match exactly the issues his specific software requires.
>>8034016
>they're essentially being used as free labour.
isn't that all grad students?
>>8033763
>studio
kek
>>8034055
Sort of, but in most cases the prof doesn't literally assign them projects where he's going to use the completed work in his side gig. It's free labour where the prof is directly financially benefiting from it.
>>8034050
Open source software can be repackaged as proprietary software though. They should publish it under a licence which precludes such shitty behaviour. And tell the news about this guy.
>>8034062
>And tell the news about this guy.
"Enterprising researcher bringing innovation to the local economy"?
>>8034066
>you have proof of this claim? speculation is dangerous, anon
Well I'm just assuming the prof doesn't give full disclosure otherwise it's clearly ethical and OP wouldn't have made this thread
>>8034063
>"Enterprising researcher bringing innovation to the local economy"?
More like
"Professor steals students' work to build software company"
>>8034062
>copyleft
Absolutely disgusting.
>>8034074
much better than copyright
>>8033786
I went to a CC where they would profit off, and take credit for any film/commercial/etc. students made using the equipment there.
The Uni. I go to now does the same thing but in a subtler way.
>>8034062
>prof has grad students to do his work for him
Wow, I can't wait for CNN to pick this up.
>>8033763
He literally gives his students jobs after their PhD that's a lot better than most other advisors.
>>8033786
You can rest assured the university gets at least half of their grant money no matter what so I really wouldn't worry about them.
>>8033763
>hello professor I want to do research for you but I don't know what to do research in.
>hello student, fortunately for you I run this business and we recently ran into this interesting problem that would be prefect for you.
>wowee a problem with real world applications, count me in professor.
>stick with me kid and this project might even turn into a research paper or even a job.
>>8034326
That's some premium 19th century capitalist tier exploitation right there.
>>8034372
You need to be 18 to post here
>>8034372
How is this worse than asking a professor to do research and him giving you an interesting problem that nobody cares about?
>>8034399
He profits off your hard work and you have nothing to show for it, all due his pre-established position (capital).
>>8034429
>you have nothing to show for it
Paper & potential job
>all due his pre-established position (capital)
His position enabled him to have such a problem to give you in the first place, fuckface. If you don't like it, good luck finding your own problem.
>>8034429
>nothing to show for it
I'd be pretty happy to graduate with my name already on a professional research project and real world business experience and references to put on a resume, let alone a job, tbqhf.
>>8034448
Don't forget to mention their research can be immediately given a real world application. That would be personally satisfying: priceless I would even say.
>>8034429
You'll get nothing more than a paper 20 people might read in general. I think a paper that somebody immediately puts to work and the offer to keep doing research for this business is a hell of a deal.
>>8033763
The entire point of giving academics funding is so that their research can be used in industry and the money pumped into the economy, it doesn't matter who uses the research, he doesn't even have to publish open source code that's just him being nice.
>>8034429
>pre-established position
He got to be an academic by publishing good papers that people pay money for, now you have one of those too which helps you in several ways including industry jobs.
>>8034515
>The entire point of giving academics funding is so that their research can be used in industry and the money pumped into the economy
What about liberal arts academics?
>>8033763
Sounds shakey. Most modern universities have tech transf. offices that are there to secure intellectual property rights - for the university. Not for the professor alone. In much of Europe and some Asian countries there are laws in place that regulates this very carefully.
>>8033771
>almost certainly, assuming the students gave permission
Unlikely. Lack of equity. The student is practically a serf to the professor, totally in the professor's power and quite unable to defend his own interests. Moreover the laws in many countries regulate such relationships as well as the ownership. it is likely that the student does not have anything to sign away.
Also if a patent application is filed the student most likely has a right to be named an inventor. Again this is regulated by law and serious trouble can happen if this is violated.
>>8034184
>I really wouldn't worry about them
The university might not be aware of what is happening. I know of one such case. Two lecturer built a big company off the work of many PhD students. Troubles came later.
>>8034440
>Paper & potential job
Professors that steal the works of others tend to downplay the role of the students to ensure they can claim ownership. Professors are regularly caught having cheated with names on publications. This is a power game and the professor holds all the cards.
>>8034655
same as pure math academics
>>8034783
Useless until it changes the world?
>>8034655
they're not scientists
>>8033763
link to papers and code and we'll see what a disgruntled grad student from yale thinks about it
Which field is it?
>>8036590
guess