https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide_and_immortality
Is it possible /sci/?
>>8001576
Test it out and let us know in the next universe.
Delicious kek
>>8001578
The thing I'm worried about is, if it's real, how do we fall asleep? I mean your consciousness is gone during slow wave sleep, when I don't revert to a parallel universe where I'm awake. Right?
It's irrelevant whether it is or not.
>>8001582
your consciousness is gone during slow wave sleep, why don't I revert to a parallel universe where I'm awake.*
>>8001585
>possible immortality
>irrelevant.
>>8001589
Well, since you are apparently really into this:
Why is this important, what does it mean if it is true?
>>8001591
Look, man. You guys are smartest board on 4chan after /lit/, I just want some answers.
>>8001594
Here is my answer:
Why is this relevant?
>>8001576
Literally pop sci at its worst
>>8001603
it's not really popsci at this point. The idea's been around for years but not many people know about this possibility.
>>8001599
I'm scared of dying okay?
>>8001605
I mean, it's completely obvious isn't it?
>>8001594
>You guys are smartest board on 4chan after /lit/
>after /lit/
kek
>>8001613
Not really. In our highschool we didn't even learn the many world's interpretation or the possibility of parallel universes due to inflation. Both or one of which are required things for quantum immortality to happen.
>>8001618
How come you didn't figure it out yourself, when you were taught basic probability?
>>8001616
What's being smart?
How do you calculate it/compare it?
>>8001622
because i'm stupid. look what does it take to get an answer out of one you eggheads?
>>8001582
how do you know consciousness is gone? maybe you just don't remember being conscious.
>>8001629
Think for yourself.
What would it mean if I were to kill you right now?
This board is just getting worse every day, more twats from other boards keep infesting /sci/ and starting stupid threads.
>>8001632
If I was to die, i would lose my consciousness would be gone and my brain would be irreparably damaged. If there was a copy of me though in another universe who lived the same life with the same memory, they would still share all the same memories and experiences and would feel like me. A dead person perceives nothing, so I would perceive the thoughts of my copy in a parallel universe. If such a copy existed.
>>8001642
Fantastic, what does that mean?
>>8001637
Don't be an asshole man.
>>8001647
If a copy of me exists in a parallel universe, and a survivor outcome is possible. that means I will subjectively never die.
>>8001649
From whose perspective?
>>8001589
Of course immortality is possible. It's just infinetely unlikely.
>>8001648
he's not wrong tho
>>8001650
My perspective. How does this relate to other forms of unconsciousness though? besides dying? like deep wave sleep, comas, anesthesia, etc.?
>>8001656
>My perspective
This is non true.
Not "your" perspective, the perspective of a non-physical meta-universal (good lord this sounds retarded) that is you, sorta, but not really.
If I shoot in the fucking head, you're still fucking dead.
>>8001660
I see. So I come I don't experience the perspective of another copy of me when I'm in another state of unconsciousness like NREM sleep, coma, stuff like that?
>>8001660
Yes but the whole point of quantum immortality is that other people can die from your perspective. It's YOU that can't die from your own perspective. If you try to kill yourself or anyone tries to kill you things will always go wrong.
>>8001671
Define "yourself".
>>8001672
Your soul
>>8001678
define "soul"
>>8001679
The part of you that isn't physical
>>8001670
Maybe because there is no connection between you and your copy in another universe?
>>8001682
Prove that there is a non-physical part of yourself.
>>8001686
I can feel it
>>8001576
Asking /sci/ questions of the universe:
How do i become immortal?
>shooting yourself in the head will make you immortal
If some guy were to offer me as much money as I want as long as its not infinite, how do i get the most money from him?
>take out your wallet and give him 1/12 of a dollar
the shitposting here is laughable sometimes
>>8001691
Prove that you can feel.
I can't tell whether you do or not.
>>8001695
Prove youre not a bot capable of solving captchas
>>8001699
I cannot.
But it is not relevant.
>>8001699
No bot could ever solve a captcha where hamburgers are called sandwiches.
yes, everyone is immortal, you'll never experience death, you need to be alive to experience anythign in the first place.
>>8001576
Care to play?
>>8001717
screw you man.
>>8001642
>so I would perceive the thoughts of my copy in a parallel universe
Why would you just assume you'll be flung into the brain of another organism?
>>8001730
There is no flinging. They're a copy of me. With the same memories and neurons. What they perceive is the same as what I would perceive. if such copies exist. Haven't you ever heard about the teleportation paradox?
>>8001731
Dude, whatever, if you don't want to discuss just leave the thread. holy shit.
>>8001588
How do you know you don't travel to a new universe every time you go to sleep?
>>8001741
It's possible. More likely though that my consciousness is recreated as i become awake and I feel the same, because the body still has the same memories of what i was doing up until the point i fell asleep.
>>8001741
That is entirely non-relevant.
>>8001576
Its a philosophical question about observability, You are an observer offing yourself, you are dead because you were seen. If you can can no longer observe, it is because you are dead. QED
But to an outside observer, we don't know if you are dead until we open the box.
Stop these unnecessary applications to form memes
/thread
>>8001772
You're talking about wavefunctions. Which is related to the thread, but I don't see anything to glean from your post.
>>8001608
Get used to it. Do something productive with your life. Make the world a better place. Then die.
>>8001802
>Make the world a better place
It's too far in the shitter as it is.
>>8001741
Ever hear of the tea cup argument? Your premise is so fantastic it cannot be taken seriously.
>>8001576
Hey OP, get this: there are an infinite number of dead guys in a box and infinite number of living guys in a box.
You choose.
>>8001582
>I mean your consciousness is gone during slow wave sleep,
>brain clearly still active (waves)
>consciousness is gone
>posting in " Quantum suicide" thread
You probably don't believe in gravity or negative numbers either, huh Anon?
>>8001826
The brain is active but you're in a state of oblivion dumbass.
>>8001826
brains are active in coma too. Hell the brain is active as long as there isn't brain stem death. Doesn't mean you're conscious.
>>8001826
>negative numbers
>real
lmao
>>8001671
>>8001678
>>8001682
Death is inevitable. Your consciousness plays a minute role in your everyday activities. Most of your actions are determined by lower level functions. You spend a third of your life asleep and will die. The universe spent billions of years without your consciousness to begin with, it will have no problem with it being gone afterwards.
Multiple universes, quantum immortality, all of that shit is fantasy. It's the stuff of science fiction and people talk about it because they think they can construe it from some theoretical physics interpretation they don't understand. If these ideas have truth to them then it tells me something else; you exist in a much lower percent of the universes than you originally thought.
If you're going to talk about non-physical things, don't come here. We talk about science which is the field that studies things we can measure. That does not include the non physical. The fact that you 'feel' your soul is just some lower process in your brain trying to convince you that you are special. Humans are designed to be egocentric like that probably for some survival mechanism that was necessary a long time ago. We're hardly different from animals, we're hardly different from each other. Hell, really, we're just biochemcial machines from the perspective of the cosmos.
>>8001709
>No bot could ever solve a captcha where hamburgers are called sandwiches.
What about hotdogs?
Are hotdogs sandwiches?
>>8001859
submarine sandwiches.
>>8001871
Sigh.... quantum immortality, god, and souls have nothing to do with math either... do you not understand points? There's no point in making such a distinction to him about that
>>8001576
I tested it out on my other universe, here I am. AMA.
>>8001738
>Dude, whatever, if you don't want to discuss just leave the thread. holy shit.
Not him, but you can go fuck yourself.
We all want a better online community, and you're shitting up the place.
Oh and for the record, the whole "quantum immortality" thing is a bullshit thought experiment, not a practical form of immortality.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide_and_immortality
>Tegmark explains, however, that life and death situations do not normally hinge upon a sequence of binary quantum events like those in the thought experiment.[6]
Hell, even at their best QM "interpretations" aren't science, they're a vain effort to take what we've observed about how the universe actually works and reconcile that with a childish emotional need to believe that the universe shouldn't contain unanswerable questions.
>>8001831
>The brain is active but you're in a state of oblivion dumbass.
This retard >>8001582 (you?) obviously thinks your existence as a person is somehow absent from the universe while you sleep.
He's confusing "consciousness" the the "conscious" state.
While the language involved is unfortunate, sleeping people are still people.
>>8001881
I read Tegmark's thoughts in his own book (Our Mathematical Universe). It doesn't necessary hinge on quantum mechanics btw. all it really requires is infinite space. Also QM "interpretations" are science, the two main contenders to the collapse question of the wavefunction is copenhagen and MWI. Any physicist worth their salt can tell you this.
>>8001881
BTW I understand we all want a better online community. 4chan you have to realize is an open ended website. As long as a post follows the guidelines (even barely) it is reasonable for it to stay and be discussed on the board. this isn't some closed off forum with mods and admins on powertrips.
>>8001576
>Is it possible /sci/?
Why don't you try and post the results?
>>8001909
Maybe in some other universe.
>>8001889
How about you look at who I was responding to... I consciously omitted that distinction because it would just add more rambling for no added value. Yes non physical things, I was directly refering to his bullshit soul and fantasy ideas. I doubt he's thinking after reading that "shit, I can't talk about those theorems I had questions about" because he probably doesn't read any math... if anyone besides you reads it.
>>8001921
This entire thing is philosophy anyway.
Philosophy doesn't really have a place here, since people refuse to accept anything but their own dogmatic empiricist viewpoint. And it definitely doesn't have a place on /x/, since people there are all fucking dumb.
>>8001925
It's not really philosophy. It's falsifiable (albeit only to you) and is the consequence of a rather common interpretation of QM and cosmology.
>>8001928
>It's falsifiable (albeit only to you)
You clearly don't understand the whole idea.
>>8001942
If you shoot yourself in the head and die. Then that's it. No such thing as quantum immortality (and maybe even multiverses). If you subjectively survive. "Oh shit, I guess it's real."
>>8001738
piss off. imagine if /sci/ users went on /x/ and called bullshit in every thread. this is pretty similar to that.
in other words, pseudoscientific whargarbl like OP's post is akin to shitposting without realizing that you're shitposting, i.e., being an idiot
>>8001945
I never even mentioned a soul, that was a different poster. Jesus if you're just gonna ad hom and "x is dataway hurr durr" this whole thread, just leave and don't let the door smoke you on the way out.
also on the note of this being a garbage thread
>24 unique posters
>84 posts
stop shilling your hocus pocus OP
>>8001951
Just because something sounds "weird", doesn't mean it's pseudoscience. I guess if you understood the theory of relativity and knew that people moving at different speed experience different timeframes or that past/present/future is an illusion to the block universe theory, then you would call all those confirmed thing as "pseudoscience" as well because it sounds "weird."
>>8001953
>>8001953
>Jesus if you're just gonna ad hom
No, I did not make an argumentum ad hominem, I just fucking insulted you, moron.
I said you were fucking dumb, not that you were wrong because you are fucking dumb.
There is a difference in meaning.
It doesn't matter whether that was you or someone else.
If it was not you, please answer >>8001672.
>>8001958
this post made me visibly cringe
>>8001960
I'm pretty sure that you're a bored troll at this point, shitting up the thread. I don't think you even care about the subject at hand. Just having your way and acting like moral police. I think /pol/ or /b/ is more an appropriate board for you, anon.
>>8001967
This is how you construct an argumentum ad hominem right there:
You devalued every single statement I made as insincere and deliberately non-true and you finish up with a nice insult.
>>8001970
Every single post you make, you never discuss the subject, never point out why it's irrelevant. All you do is just go on about "muh board quality". And insulting me, calling me stupid, etc. etc. You're just a troll man.
>>8001981
That was not me, by the way.
Not everyone who disagrees with you is the same person.
Now go on where we left off, >>8001672, stop shitposting and bring some substance yourself.
Every single post you make, you never discuss the subject, never point out why it's irrelevant. All you do is just go on about "muh people who care about board quality". And insulting me, calling me a troll, etc. etc. You're just a troll man.
>>8001988
Dude you act like my thread is the only "out there" science topic on the board right now. There's a same thread asking if we're in a simulated reality going on right now. And there's another thread asking stupid shit like "why are there no primitive people we find never white?" etc. etc. You could call out all these people. But you choose to hang out here and just troll my thread.
>>8001994
Yeah, but I don't care for that.
I am not that person.
>>8001996
I love you too.
>>8001576
yes, but there is only a 1/10^50000 or whatever chance of you inhabiting the universe where the gun doesn't go off
>>8001576
I think you don't understand the concept behind this.
It's just saying that if many worlds theory is true then there is a universe where you cannot die.
Which of course only proves how stupid the many worlds theory is.
It's like saying it's possible that if you throw a coin it will be heads forever and that therefor you can never ever ever throw tails
>>8002009
The probability is exactly 50% since there's an infinite number and it rapidly approaches zero the more times you do it.
>>8002008
Yourself is you or a carbon copy of you. Sharing all the same memories and experiences relegated to a certain type of observer. These observers may be found in hilbert space if the MWI is real and branching happens. Or just normal 3d space if eternal inflation is real and the universe is infinite (with finite arrangements). This is assuming these things are real.
>>8002016
I can't, if I could prove the multiverse and parallel lives were real, then I would be renowned scientist and wouldn't be posting on a nobody's website like i am now.
>>8002016
Also note, I said "assuming these things are real".
>>8002019
It's a philosophical problem.
Despite what you might believe, Philosophy is not lacking in rigor at all.
You should know how to construct a logical argument, get
>>8002023
These things are irrelevant.
I am fully willing to accept them at this point.
The issue for this entire concept to make sense is proving that an indistinguishable copy is exactly the same as the original.
Which is an oxymoron, good luck proving such a thing.
>>8002032
"relation r" of Parfit makes a case for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletransportation_paradox
>>8002019
>i can't
so it's not falsifiable then??????????
>>8002043
Well I haven't tried the experiment. If I shoot myself in the head and die then the multiverse probably doesn't exist. If I live then there's the chance that my perception is continuing on in another parallel universe.
>>8001582
Well you know, there's Occam's Razor, and then there's the fact that you can't do anything to change it anyway. Even if you didn't sleep, even if you were never rendered unconscious, even if you never had any gaps in your memory breaking the continuity of your conscious awareness.... even then, the cells in your body die off and get replaced by new ones. Your body today, including your brain, is already different from the one it was 15 years ago. You are, for all intents and purposes, a copy of your former self, one that was simply copied one tiny tiny tiny little piece at a time.
So you know, you can stress about it. Or just accept it. My advice? If you're going to jump through the hoops required to assume BS like the OP, then you might as well start believing in God. Both are equally outlandish and ridiculous, but at least believing in a God will give you the peace of mind that you'll be intact and find happiness and heaven for all eternity, etc.
>>8002058
OP here. I gave clear reasoning. That Quantum immortality may be the side effect of there being a multiverse (infinite one in a narrower sense) which is today rather mainstream science. I gave explanations why these copies are still you, in a sense ("relation r" Parfit). None of you guys argue with these points. Or even responded to them.
>>8002065
I guess quantum immortality is in a sense an illusion. As it's not the exact EXACT same particles that make you, you. But the end results of you perceiving the universe continually is there either way.
>>8002069
>But the end results of you perceiving the universe continually is there either way.
They are not there.
You are assuming them to be there based on an idea of an unproven physical theory that you desire to be true.
If you care for it so much, conduct an experiment.
Get a gun, shoot yourself in the head and see what happens.
>>8001576
I think russian roulette is a wonderful example of why it's not possible to be immortal this way. Even if you survive the first 5 shots, the chance of having the bullet in the next chamber is 1. Eventually all the cards will fall into place and you will die.
>>8002073
Well the Many world interpretation is unproven. So branching multiverses in hilbert space could be wrong. Eternal inflation and flat, infinite space with finite matter arrangments (which predicts parallel universes) is partly proven although there's a chance (very small) that it could be wrong. Btw, I don't believe quantum immortality 100%, it's just food for thought.
>>8002077
But if there's a multiverse, every outcome is played out, including ones where you don't get shot.
>>8002013
>Probability approaches 0
>Therefor it's 50%
????
>>8002083
It will shoot. The only question is just afer how many timed.
If you repeat it infinitely, you're dead in all universes.
>>8002100
No. I don't think you understand how probability works.
>>8002102
I don't think you know how infinity works
>>8002117
If there's infinite, all outcomes are played out somewhere. :-)
>>8001802
*tips*
>>8002117
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2lyRsmd0wI
>>8002065
>literally kill yourself
If you're going to be an asshole, just go stick a fucking magnup up your ass and pull the trigger. You're literally adding nothing to the discussion, save for your lame 20 years out of fashion internet tough guy act, you fucking brainless autistic sad virgin faggot of a useless waste of oxygen fuck. Grow up, seriously. Unless of course, you know, you can't because you were born wrong in the head.
Asshole.
>>8002118
And the outcome of you surviving for infinitely repeating a probability is 0.
Just like the probability of never throwing tails in infinite throws is 0
>>8002128
Explain why you believe that Occam's Razor is not fucking retarded, then.
>>8002128
OP here. I think it's some samefag shill derailing the thread.
>>8002143
>some samefag shill derailing the thread
Yeah, the same "samefag shill" who is tearing any argument you might have apart.
>>8002132
It should be obvious, unless you assume I referred to its use in the manner one would to the meme. And that would be your failing, not mine.
But no, I won't explain. I'll delete this thread from my favorites and get the fuck out. I would no more waste my time with a fucking ill-mannered asshole in real life than I would here. So go fuck yourself or whatever, I don't care.
>>8002148
You haven't torn apart anything. In fact you haven't even asked anything about the subject. I was having polite back-n-forths with people who was curious about the subject. Go back and re-read the thread, we covered a lot. You never even approached me with anything yet. Just angry attacks for whatever reason.
>>8001717
>time dilation, AI, blackholes
>/x/
What the fuck am I even reading? Are you into special relativity at all? Time is dilated by the Lorentz factor you fuckwit
>>8002153
Jesus Christ OP, could you be any more BTFO?
I have a serious question.
So all of us are going to ultimately find ourselves in the universe where practical immortality has been invented, and we will live forever. All realities where we die before it appears are cut off.
But what about somebody who was born, say, a few centuries ago? Some medieval guy has strictly zero chance to biologically survive until immortality becomes possible for humans. Would he end up in the universe where he is abducted by aliens who decide to make him immortal, or what?
>>8002164
I think that he would have fluked it. Like survive cancer, ward off heart attacks. You don't really need technology for that. People make recoveries naturally. And he just perceived the timelines where he survived (slim odds though).
>Advocates of Many-worlds interpretation often cite a poll of 72 "leading cosmologists and other quantum field theorists" conducted by the American political scientist David Raub in 1995 showing 58% agreement with "Yes, I think MWI is true".
Are these niggas even serious?
>>8002172
Stephen Hawkings supports MWI.
>>8002171
Well, maybe it might be possible for someone born in the 1700s - he manages to live to be 150, and then singularity is achieved in 1920 because there was some fantastic breakthrough in science in the 19th century. But for an ancient Egyptian peasant, or for a neolithic hunter, I guess, an alien intervention would be way more probable.
>>8002175
Stephen Hawkings is also a literal retard
>>8002181
troll, please go.
>>8001576
If this nigga is serious then those of us who shared this reality might become immortal only thanks to AI and minduploading.
But this doesn't explain how those who clearly died and couldn't branch off anywhere could possibly be conscious. Unless their mind would be rebuilt by some sort of AI based on their DNA, historic knowledge, and what we know about the world (eg: trying to revert the past state based on the present state using the info about the world)
>yfw someone builds an AI, resurrects the dead and then uses this as an argument that they're some deity like Jesus
>>8002184
He literally is
>>8002187
I think he used to be normal then he suffered some paralyzing disease? idk.
>>8002186
>and what we know about the world (eg: trying to revert the past state based on the present state using the info about the world)
Should clarify:
Someone could gather enough observational data about the physical world, and then just apply the laws of physics and enormous computational power to attempt to predict what the brains of the dead were like in the past. Then, these could easily reconstructed, either in their original form, or on a digital medium (aka mind uploading).
>>8001576
>Multiple universes
kys
>>8002132
>occam's razor is retarded
Just blow your brains out you stupid monkey
>>8001576
Looks like BS/Popsci to me desu.
