Fuck this worthless class
>b-but you need to understand
It literally boils down to memorizing. Pic related.
Chem majors and premeds need to off themselves for enabling this meme class to exist.
>>7718526
>being this asshurt about organic chem
I bet you came undone the first time you were shown spectra, too.
>not being able to memorize a handful of basic facts
Any remotely worthwhile field is going to require a lot of memorization.
Confusing "don't just memorize" with "don't memorize" ruins so many undergrads it's not even funy.
>>7718526
>calling a class a meme
fuck yourself shitposter
>>7719016
lol... damn you
not op
If you're bad at Organic Chemistry, I genuinely feel bad for you.
>>7718526
If you're only memorizing the arrow pushing and reaction products, you're missing out on the principles underlying the initial reactivity.
For example, all of these problems are grouped such that you need to understand mechanistic differences. Variations on a theme, if you will. If you can't recognize those mechanistic similarities, you've more or less wasted your time.
Bro organic chem is the first time most people really have to consider molecular geometry and reactivity. If you can't see the value in that, kys.
>>7718526
OP I'm in OChem 1 @ Rutgers and those reactions are so fucking simple how could you fuck those up. Also the fact that they tell you what's unimolecular sub, lmfao. Surpringly Rutgers orgo is God-tier challenging.... you also don't need to memorize shit as long as you understand what would happen and why
>>7718526
That is how we weed out the premeds. If they can't memorize basic chemical pathways, how would they memorize drugs and their interactions :v)
Fuck premeds. Just learn the pathways and visualize the three dimensional space like everyone else.
>>7718526
Lol most of that is a levels stuff down here
You just suck
Why do people always say "all you have to do is memorize!"
That's exactly the problem ochem tries to solve. what happens when I react these two things? There are innumerable numbers of molecules and even more possibilities as to what happens when you react them. The first thought that should come to your head taking this course is "oh...looks like I can't memorize if I'm going to apply this theory".
Instead the dumbass premeds flood the class and give it a bloated reputation for being hard. All they ever do is memorize the layout of biological systems so when problem solving becomes a focus they are fucked. I'm so fucking embarrassed for them. My ochem 2 professor made 20% of each of his exams reactions from current ochem research for this exact reason. It is imperative to understand functional group properties and electron pushing if you are going to solve problems, especially the ones you haven't seen before.
So yes, bio premeds, cramming the night before an orgo test isn't going to work. You will flounder and fail unless you have an easy professor, and even then you will fail everywhere else out of that context. Yes I am fucking mad.
>>7718526
Synthesis is really gay I agree, however, most of o-chem is about understanding MO theory and the behaviour of functional groups, not memorization.
>>7719337
>how would they memorize drugs and their interactions :v)
MDs don't do anything like that.
I got great grades at a level and two years of university chemistry. Fuck the people who say memorisation isnt required. It definitely is, especially when you have to give every step of the mechanisms as well.
What this boils down to is: Are most chemistry classes filled with mathematically rigorous principles that can be intuitively derived, or is it a subject done mostly by women and over glorified lab technicians who memorise a bunch of shit and collect stamps? Hmm...
>>7720202
Haven't you watched House, MD. Every doctor is an atheist, insults their patients, memorized every medical text in existence, and breaks into their patients houses.
>>7720243
But it's not you retard. You don't need to memorize the mechanisms if you know how to push electrons well. Like I said a couple posts above, an old professor of mine would give us problems we had never seen previously where we had to solve the mechanism. They were incredibly long and complicated, but if you knew your shit you could come to a reasonable answer. You did it wrong and probably caused yourself much more stress than needed.
>OP being butthurt because he doesn't understand something.
>OP being a whiny little bitch.
I read here you fail to grasp the extent and importance of this field OP.
>>7720292
The House finale should've involved House breaking into one of his patient's homes, only to be gunned down by the patient's roommate.
this thread is a cauldron of mad soup
>>7718526
Maybe take a different major faggot?
I think you'd be better suited to women's studies
>>7719010
>Org chem is robot work.
You're not wrong, but at least the pracs are fun.
And yeah, physical chem is much more interesting and practical.
TOP KEK
>>7719067
I got 99 problems but a Wittig ain't one.
>>7718526
i'm sensing that you got aids by fucking too many traps. always remember that a chemist worked out the synthesis of your anti-retroviral drugs which give you a nearly normal life-expectancy and the opportunity to engage in even more homo-sex in the future.
>>7718526
I got >95% on every ochem test ever taken and literally memorized not one single thing. All you have to do is understand the few underlying principles, be able to spatially manipulate mental models of chemicals, and apply logic.
>>7720575
That's not really possible. Because knowing the underlying principles won't help you with portraying reactions and the finer details in the demanded way which ultimately makes up a lot of marks.
Here's the thing faggots; most, if not all undergrad orgo classes will not delve into any kind of theory about mechanisms. Especially orgo 1, so it boils down to just memorizing bullshit over and over again. Additionally, Orgo is literally useless. The Orbital theories are taught and used in much more detail in Gen chem and P.chem, while the important mechanisms are taught in detail in Biochem.
Again, the only reason this class exists is to weed out premeds.
>>7720422
I understand that your major is the crowing achievement in your life, but maybe you should chill out with your Stockholm syndrome there buddy. Its ok to not like a class, even in your precious "STEM" major.
>>7720480
>chemist worked out the synthesis of your anti-retroviral drugs which give you a nearly normal life-expectancy and the opportunity to engage in even more homo-sex in the future.
I don't think you understand how drug research and testing works
>>7720575
>All you have to do is understand the few underlying principles, be able to spatially manipulate mental models of chemicals, and apply logic.
That's great, but my professor gives exactly one hour for a 15 question test, at least 5 of which demand the full mechanism with several paragraph long answers. I really don't understand why a lot of autistic chem majors defend this class so much, I'm going to assume its Stockholm syndrome and a desire to prove the they're smarter than those darn liberal arts and business majors.
>>7720430
Just ochem and physical chem classes this term.
Preferred physical chem theory more and ochem lab work more than the respective opposites.
>>7718526
Man this is easy as fuck
>>7722155
research/testing != synthesis; the designing of drugs is a highly interdisciplinary subject. no doubt, in the future efficient routes of chemical syntheses for target-compounds might well be worked out by computer-programs, but currently you need a chemist for finding out the optimal industrial process for manufacturing your drug.
>>7722222
Nice quints
>Chem
Have fun taking your worthlessly hard class. Come back when you have switched your major to something actually useful like Pure Mathematics.
>>7722222
Yes, one chemist. While the other 5 thousand drink themselves to sleep and wake up late to teach their community college lab course.
>>7722230
doesn't take much mathematical ingenuity to work out the spacial dimensions of horse-dildos. anyone can do that, even without a mathematics degree.
>>7722230
So while everyone is here making fun of op for being a dumbass who thinks he can learn o chem in a few hours >>7719820 I have a basic question.
Why is it that in most addition reactions with alkenes and alkynes the hydrogen generally attaches to the least substituted side of the double bond unless certain catalysis are presented? The rule is easy to remember but why is this the actual case?
>>7718526
Practicing my orgo knowledge did I get it right?
>>7722331
Pretty sure like I said in >>7722318 that the H would go on the least substituted side while the Cl goes on the more substituted side so switch the H and Cl.
The rule my teacher likes to say is unless there's a specific catalysis (I think you would call them catalysis but don't quote me on that) like BH3 or ROOR then Hydrogen likes to hang out with other hydrogens.
>>7722348
Makes sense with carbons preference for saturation, thanks!
>not seeing orgo as a graph theory problem
>upset his baby qm can't spoonfeed him answers for reaction surfaces
Premed/biochem/reddit-tier chemist detected
>>7722353
Now it makes sense, thanks anon.
>>7722331
>no relative stereochemistry
>part 3 totally incorrect
0/10
>>7722516
Does the H2 Pd produce a syn or anti addition? I know the other two are anti.
Wtf how can you be this pissed about organic chem? People bitch about memorizing shit but you can determine which mechanism a particular substitution or elimination undergoes just by knowing the properties of good/bad nucleophiles..etc. there's a bit of memorization but if you can't handle that then STEM careers aren't for you.
>>7722230
Enjoy being poor as fuck, come back when you've majored in Fiance.
Here is the world against OP
Hey it's a univesity for a reason. You ain't in tech school buddy. Enjoy your education if you can.
>>7718570
>>7719067
Not OP here but I actually ('literally' would be improper, now) washed out/was weeded out of organic chemistry at the start of sophomore year. I. could. not. read. spectrographs to save my life. Labs mystified me but they did not involve graded content so I could just float through; I sat a test about halfway through the semester, realized that I did not understand what was in front of me, it came back as you'd expect, and I withdrew shortly afterward.
Math OTOH was no problem, so I completed a math major later.
>>7719067
You have to be autistic as fuck to actually enjoy this joke of a class.
Orgo at the undergrad level is worthless memorization.
>>7722746
> Thinks a finance major is the key to not being poor as fuck
> Can't spell it
I'm doing a master's in chemistry and I wish organic chemistry was never invented.
>>7719100
That's the thing, I try understanding O Chem from a physics perspective--balancing the forces and such instead of memorizing reactions. The problem is I have no idea how to determine which force will be dominant in a specific situation, and you usually have a massive molecule with ten conflicting factors to balance. Analyzing O Chem in that way feels like building the Taj Mahal out of LEGO.
>>7718526
If you are memorizing anything other than trends in Ochem you are literally doing it wrong. That entire class can be aced by learning and understanding a small set of basic chemical principles and knowing what a fucking electron is.
Source: medfeg who aced Ochem when I took it back in undergrad.
Organic really isn't memorization. Took an advanced topics course in organic and it was pretty interesting to learn that even the most basic reactions you cover in organic I-II aren't so set in stone. There are a lot of factors in reactivity. If you memorize in ochem you will pass with a C, if you can think logically you can make an A easy, it actually isn't that hard. I'm willing to bet there's a negative correlation between note cards and letter grades based on my experience in undergrad organic.
>>7722856
Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that undergraduate organic is the 1+1=2 in the grand scheme of chemistry. People spend entire dissertations, sometimes even lifetimes learning how to synthesize or optimize the production of one molecule. That's why I want to get into applied organic instead of more theoretical/bench science. I think I would eventually kill myself after spending 10+ years studying just one large molecule in only a handful of reaction systems.
Org Chem is what seperates the boys from the men. The kids who win science fair from the warriors who win Nobel prizes. You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found unworthy. Best commit sudoku to save what miniscule shred of scientific honor remains in your family, OP.
>>7723599
>sudoku
Hey now, sudoku on the highest difficulty is kind of hard if you're mentally retarded
>>7720409
Instead it ended with a warren zevon montage.
Worth
>>7723599
>Org Chem is what seperates the boys from the men. The kids who win science fair from the warriors who win Nobel prizes.
Are you fucking stupid?
The only reason its even taught at the undergrad level is to weed out premeds
>>7723682
Really? Because chem I does a pretty decent job at that, at least at my uni. Most premeds are people who don't even like science and math and think they will easily make it through to one of the highest paying professions in applied health science.
>>7719016
>handful
I have my final tomorrow morning, thankfully I have a pretty good grasp of all the material and I'm gonna pull and all nighter reviewing/memorizing mechanisms and shit.
There is one question that I've memorized how to answer, but I have no idea why the answer happens. Can I post it without getting banned for homework help begging?
Also how fuck am I if I take this thing without sleeping?
What would you guys say is harder, calc 2 or ochem?
>>7723704
Honestly, I've always loved science and being a premed made me really disillusioned with science, scientists and the STEM meme as a whole.
I just hope I can get into Pharmacy school and get off this shitty ride. Fuck how long it take to become a doctor, fuck all the bullshit classes and competition with Indian and Asian autists. Fuck Orgo especially.
If I'm gonna be an insurance salesman I might as well take the short way out.
>>7723753
I wouldn't advise it. Organic requires only a little memorization and a lot of thinking and logic(at least if you have a good professor). If it was a bio test I'd say go ahead and cram all night, but you'll want a good night sleep for an organic test. Just curious, is it an ACS exam or written by your professor?
>>7723754
Hard to compare the two. At my uni most people agree that Calc II is the hardest course in the calc I-diff eq most stem have to take here. Personally I picked up on organic I-II pretty well. I didn't struggle until I took an advanced organic class in undergrad. Calc on the other hand I made it through ok, but I had to do a lot of extra practice problems and put in some serious effort.
>>7723756
Yeah, a lot of people don't understand why I dropped pre-pharm to go to grad school for research in chemistry. I just don't really care about money that much and the medical field is honestly isn't that fulfilling either personally or intellectually. I wouldn't mind getting into pharm and working on synthesizing new drugs or finding alternatives though. I just know I absolutely don't want to be a doctor or pharmacist. Those things are competitive anyways, so it will probably work out better.
>>7723762
>at least if you have a good professor
Mine is a total cock sucker.
He gives you exactly enough time to look at a question and spit the answer out. The OP is from one of his previous finals. Written by him probably.
Can I post that question?
>>7723786
Sure, I'll try. Just finished advanced organic so hopefully I can answer it.
>>7723768
I honestly don't give a fuck anymore. I just wanna get through this final tomorrow, get through the rest of these garbage classes, study my cock off for that damn PCAT, and finally get in and relieve all this uncertainty and stress. I am actually really starting to hate science, the me from 2 years ago would be appalled at this.
Hopefully my life will be smooth sailing after this. All I really want is a relatively uninvolved job, my parents to shut the fuck up about me being a "doctor" and enough money to fund my hobbies and take out everyday.
>>7723786
Not that guy, but the OP is crazy easy man. You should know super common everyday reactants by the end of 1 semester of organic.
>>7723790
Ok so his explanation for this is that because the reaction is in equilibrium, it would only produce half of the product while wasting half the product. That's why NaOH isn't a good base. It's favored by 0/neither because the Pka of water (the conjugate acid) is 16.
My explanation for cyclopentadiene having a low Pka is that it's aromatic because it has 3 pairs of pi electrons therefore obeying Huckel's law. Aromatic compounds have resonance forms, making them especially stable and un reactive, giving it a low Pka value.
Is this correct?
>>7723798
Yes, it's conj bass is aromatic, not its acid form on the left though. Having 4 pi electrons in the molecule on the left makes it anti-aromatic(4n rule). Anti aromatics are generally more acidic.
>>7723808
So it has a low Pka because It's conjugate base is stable?
>>7723812
Yeah, you can think of pKa as a molecules preference of whether it wants to keep its hydrogen or not. High pKa meaning it really wants to keep it. Being aromatic is very stable so that cyclopentadiene is willing to give up its hydrogen.
>>7723816
>tfw an anon on 4chan can explain chemistry better than a university professor.
Thanks a ton bro.
The last thing I'm shaky about are the E1/2 mechanisms. Do they basically mirror the Sn1/2 mechanisms? What happens to the stereochemistry?
>>7723808
Cyclopendatiene (ie on the left w 4pi e-) is non-aromatic not anti-aromatic, b/c the methylene group breaks the cyclic array of interacting pi-orbitals.
>>7723825
Organic chemistry is gay.
>>7723825
You need to also remember in E2 reactions you get as many products as there are different kinds of beta carbons and the major product is the one where the formed double bond is most stable which is generally where it is most substituted. However, when you have a bulky base like tert butoxide then the product formed by taking out the least sterically hindered H becomes much more likely and can even become the major product.
>>7723894
b..but jessy we have to cook!
My ochem professor gave us the option of sitting three tests throughout the semester (20% each) or sit and end of semester exam (60%). Studying for individual tests made me understand better instead of cramming for exams and forgetting everything within a month. 90% of the class got A's
Ochem is just a lot of spatial and pattern problems. There is no memorization. If you need to memorized then you are not fit to be in STEM. Which is a lot of kids these days. The name are irrelevant and what you're looking for is the outcome that you can deduced.
>>7719025
Underrated post, this is my big objection is to the way they have changed syllabi over the past few years.
Shit is watered down by some 'cool' professor and when the going gets tough, everyone gets lost for some strange reason. I can't recall how many times I have struggled with understanding something until I finally just learned the definitions, done some problems and then understood a topic entirely in an ah-ha mode.
This was typed form my Unis library while I was trying to study and was distracted by some giggling asian cunt to my right tapping away on her tablet
>>7722153
>I understand that your major is the crowing achievement in your life, but maybe you should chill out with your Stockholm syndrome there buddy. Its ok to not like a class, even in your precious "STEM" major.
>Stockholm Syndrome
>Buddy
>crowning achievement
All of you faggots are identical. All I was waiting for was for you to drop the "cognitive dissonance" phrase that you think is cool ever since you read it on wikipedia.
Are you a woman by any chance? Or just retarded?
>>7723982
why doesnt everyone do that, it seems to me more frequent test will still keep the students constantly occupied but with less pressure
>>7723791
>Hopefully my life will be smooth sailing after this. All I really want is a relatively uninvolved job, my parents to shut the fuck up about me being a "doctor" and enough money to fund my hobbies and take out everyday.
Literally me.
>tfw studying maths
>tfw I'm a better programmer than the computer science gaymen fags
>smooth sailing is only a few years away
>>7724266
We have a mid-semester 'task' that is 20% of the semester total.
Do you have a similar system, I think more of these would be great for making good students
>>7719105
FAKE!
Just got out of that final. While I wasn't nearly as fucked as that other anon who made a thread about his orgo final, I probably got around a 70-80. Hopefully. He grades like a giant dick.
Probably gonna pull a C. Bye bye GPA ;.;
>>7724267
>studying CS
>picking up double major in applied math
>tfw I'm better at math than the math spergs
>>7724777
I'm in the same boat, except non-applied math. Start off in CS then decided to try out math, then realized I was getting better grades than the math students. It's pretty funny, I've even seen them talk about how CS majors are code monkeys and stuff, yet do worse than the CS majors in their math classes.
I think /sci/ just likes to pretend that all math majors are like the top 5% of them, while simultaneously stereotyping all CS majors by only looking at the bottom 25% of them.
