![16651225-laboratory-scientist-working-at-lab-with-test-tubes-and-microscope-Stock-Photo[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2YygSm5.jpg "16651225-laboratory-scientist-working-at-lab-with-test-tubes-and-microscope-Stock-Photo[1].jpg")
Whats the average day of a scientist like?
I am majoring and STEM and want to know if i'm making a wrong choice.
I ask this because I know a math major who loves math and majored in Engineering and said it was the worst thing he ever did.
Oh, and if you are wondering I am majoring as a Bio fag but any scientist telling me their day to day would be nice.
>>7858893
This is more ore less a thread for /adv/ but being a biofag can mean many different things. Since biology is such a large field you could do just about anything.
Though with a bachelors you're either going to be a:
>lab monkey
>ecology monkey
>flipping hamburgers
It just really depends to be honest.
>>7858908
I'm thinking of going ecology and evolution for no other reason because it interests me and it sounds fun.
>>7858893
I wouldn't normally do this but I have to re read so many times your post that I am forced to do this.
>Whats the average day of a scientist like?
Missed the ' in the What's.
>I am majoring and STEM and want to know if i'm making a wrong choice.
You mean in stem. Your i should be capitalized.
>I ask this because I know a math major who loves math and majored in Engineering and said it was the worst thing he ever did.
You know a math major who majored in engineering? But wasn't he a math major? Is he a double major? Why are you hiding information from us? What? Even? What?
>Oh, and if you are wondering I am majoring as a Bio fag but any scientist telling me their day to day would be nice.
Biology is not a real science.
>>7858925
>Biology isn't a real science
When will newfags stop spamming this meme?
>>7858934
>When will newfags stop spamming this meme?
When your mathematical education goes past Calc I you fucking retard.
>>7858925
He changed majors after he realized he hated Engineering. But that was only after he got a job as an engineer.
>>7858935
Actually, Bio Majors require at least Calc 2 which is actually the same as Chem majors and some fields in computer science. Unless you don't think those are sciences.
>>7858918
As a guy who did that good luck because that shit ain't happening unless you suck a professor's dick. I do have to say that when I was field sampler I really enjoyed it.
Also start worrying when you're senior
>>7858934
It's just some dude waving his dick because he finished freshman physics
>>7858935
>not knowing about biomathematics
>not knowing that most BS now require calc 2, calc 3, diff eq, linear, and at least one course in bio mathematics
Come back when you've read through the intro book
http://www.ift.unesp.br/users/mmenezes/mathbio.pdf
>>7858937
Well, what did he expect?
Most engineers never get their official engineering licence or whatever it is called, and so engineers in industry are no more than glorified technicians. The only difference between an engineer and a technician, is that the engineer will be the technician that bosses around the other technicians.
Still, similar things are true for all sciences. For all the jobs that are available to bachelors in math, none of them are more than slightly challenging office jobs.
>>7858941
Chemistry is a science, CS is not.
Calc 2 is still laughable, by the way. Anyways, I was exagerating with Calc I.
Here is the rigorous definition of science:
>Something whose bachelor degree goes at least beyond partial differential equations. Everything not in this category is a liberal art and will get you the same jobs as a gender studies graduate.
>>7858944
>not knowing that most BS now require calc 2, calc 3, diff eq, linear, and at least one course in bio mathematics
This is not true and for every example you give of a curriculum that does include this, I can show you 10 from curriculums that don't include them.
Anyways, are you implying that most bio majors go for mathematical/computational biology? Fuck no, most of them are fucking pre-meds with big dreams of sucking big dick.
>>7858948
So are you saying Chem isn't a science?
>>7858951
How about you show you got a degree faggot? Instead of waving your dick around?
>>7858934
It's not newfags, it's one guy with way too much time in his hands spamming every thread that contains the words "bio" or "biology" or even a picture of a living thing regardless of what is posted within. It's gotten old but I guess people still fall for it judging from the responses.
>>7858908
This really. With only a BSc (bio chem or phys) your options are either lab monkey or non-stem, which can be as varied as hamburger flipping or teaching or IT or bank analyst depending on the person and their skills. If you want to do science (propose theories and purposefully contribute to science) you will have to go to grad school. Depending on the area, grad school in bio can mean a lot of different things, but, most of the time the hours are going to be brutal, and just like any PhD, it's going to get old after a while.
>>7858944
>Good luck
This is actually what I was scared someone would say.
I just want to talk about evolution and the dynamics of an ecology.
But I guess so does every other Hippie and bio major.
>>7858956
I am sure that chem goes beyond PDEs.
If not then it is not a science.
>>7858958
I am currently a student of pure mathematics. Senior.
>>7858961
No because the only distinction that is made is that it goes beyond PDEs. After that, all of them are sciences with no varying degrees. Just that different disciplines extend to different areas.
>>7858966
>Non scientist thinks he can dictate who is a scientist because hurr durr muh math
Math major here. You must actually be an engineer because you are acting like a faggot.
>>7858971
I guess I should explain my reasoning.
The thought train behind is that in 2016, a field of study that does not require AT LEAST PDEs to describe and understand the different things it studies, is not a real science.
Yes, this means that 500 years ago, biology was a science, as I am sure back then it was keeping up with the current math. But now it has been outgrown and it is a subject matter so simple that even Calc I would suffice to explain biology.
Thus it is no more than a humanity.
These kind of things have happened before. For example, thousands of years ago, Geography was not only a science, but it was the ultimate science. It was the study of everything basically. But as time kept going and scientists started knowing more things, the scope of Geography was downgraded and then it stopped being considered a science at all because there were now more complex methods to understand the other things geography used to understand.
That is how sciences lose science status. By staying so far back of the current times that it no longer requires top tier scientists to do it, so real scientists get away from thos simplistic fields and go on to bigger endeavors.
>>7858964
I'm planning on staying until I get a masters and hoping I can do something with that. I currently have a nice teachers aid job and hoping to keep that until I get my masters.
>>7858984
Nigger, there is more to understanding than math.
Biology has it's own unique things to learn. You can't tell me being a Biologist is any easier than the thousands of Chem fags who get jobs working as a pharmacist.
>>7858995
>there is more to understanding than math.
This is true and I haven't said the contrary. I am just saying that whatever you are studying, if you don't need at least PDEs to model it then what you are doing is no better than doing music theory or some shit like that.
If you want to keep pretending that doing shitty diagrams and sticking your finger up an animal's anus to "study" it is on the same level as a physicist who models motion of large objects in space then you are delusional.
>get to work at ~9:15 b/c flexible hours
>boot up Ti:Sapphire laser
>mount laser crystal in liquid nitrogen dewar
>attach dewar to vacuum pump and let it pump down for a few hours
>coffee
>finish up introduction and theory section of paper for new laser beam combination technique
>coffee
>read paper about supermodes of multicore fibers
>read paper about multicore fiber laser passive feedback modelocking
>work through lunch b/c I love my job
>talk with senior scientist about the patent application we just submitted
>align laser crystal in cavity to be pumped by TiS laser
>add liquid nitrogen
>get first light out of a new never-before-demonstrated cryogenic laser
>meeting with different senior scientist
>he's happy about the laser
>we're going to publish
>coffee
>check email
>my conference submission got accepted so I'll be giving a talk in May
>implying this is an average day for most STEM majors
>>7859000
>Biology isn't as complex as modeling objects in space
Kek, ok now you have to be trolling. If you don't understand that every field of science has it's own challenges that not even the smartest minds in the world can yet crack then you don't know science.
>>7859005
Biology still has unknowns but finding them, and modelling them, is not a complex matter because all the math behind it is pretty trivial and centuries old.
However, saying that biology has its own challenges is like saying that economy has its own challenges. It is true, but that doesn't mean economy is a science either.
That said, I'm sure gender studies has its own challenges too.
>>7859000
>Is not complex
>Animals are literally the most complex things we know of in the entire universe
>B-But there isn't much math so it really isn't complex
Kek.
>>7859021
It isn't complex to model.
Of course there is a lot of work going on there, but you will never need abstract algebra for it.
>>7859024
Yeah, it doesn't apply in many cases.
Maybe your definition of what is and isn't science is shit instead of pretending things that don't fit so well for you aren't.
>>7858984
I'll bite and answer with the assumption that you're not trolling. Science (yes, "real" science) has a definition. Look it up. You're using a different definition (which is dumb since there already is one) and the logic behind your definition is rotten top to bottom. Maths in the realm of science is used as a tool of describing, explaining, understanding and predicting natural phenomena, which is why it's used in differing amounts depending on the subject matter. Some natural phenomena are a lot easier to describe using maths, hence why it is used. However, I am assuming that you are attempting to use math skills to gauge a person's ability to do science (or gauging intelligence since you probably believe math=IQ), which is nonsensical and possibly demonstrates insecurity on your part. Finally, you're really ignorant if you really think the scientists (PhDs and profs are the scientists in all scientific fields) working in molecular bio research for example, are not top-tier scientists or extremely smart. I suggest you meet some. You're not smarter than them whether or not your bachelor's degree contains the word "mathematics" in it.
>>7858944
Mathbio is a pretty cool book. Doing bio and math is pretty fun. The applied section of math has better job offers than the purefags. Doing stats and bio will get a job in informatics, and modeling the data for the PhD in Bio. You can also work as a epidemiologist. /sci/ is just a bunch of retards spewing ignorant information about stem in general.
>>7858925
>Biology doesn't apply scientific method
Oh my god, you trully are a retarded
>>7858893
staring all day at matlab and excel window and software for internal use hasn't been updated for 15 years
>>7858964
wait biochem has no jobs? I was thinking about minoring in biochem and im a biofag too
>>7859758
Judging from my biofag friends' experience who is less intelligent than me in high school, 50% of published result in biology is fake. it's not a real science, just an easy way for biofags to get a stable job
>>7859772
Lol I was told recently to switch from chemistry to biochem because chemistry had no jobs
>>7859809
but that is common knowledge anon
>>7859809
>tfw orgo master race
>>7858948
>Still, similar things are true for all sciences. For all the jobs that are available to bachelors in math, none of them are more than slightly challenging office jobs.
This is the sad truth of all STEM careers. The most interesting thing you can do in industry is design of large reactor plants/unit operations. The only way to get work on that is if you're a professional engineer with years of experience and even then you will get to spend maybe 10% of your career total doing it.
R&D is shit because on the most interesting cutting edge projects you're working on small subproblems and in most cases you aren't even allowed to see the overall design.
These are the GOOD industry careers. Most people end up in low paying QC or some other stupid monotomous lab/code/CAD monkey job. That is especially true for science graduates, the largest chunk of the "lucky" group who finds work in STEM end up there.
Even academia, which you likely won't get into anyway, isn't as good as you think it is. Gradschool is the last time you'll actually get to do what you love most of the time, after that you need to worry about grants, admin, teachning etc. all takes priority over your own research.
You can be a senior researcher at a univeristy, but that pays like shit compared to actual faculty and you have like no power, even a junior lecturer can get priority office space/equipment/lab access for their grad-students over you.
>>7858941
>tfw reminded that most chem programmes only have you doing up to calc. 2
Honestly it's about time we classify chemistry as a soft science already. Dead field anyway.
>>7859813
Does the no jobs issue ever end?
I just wanna be a scientist. I was told stick with chem and do non-organic so you can do cool things and because nearly everyone does organic anyway, but then if I don't do organic I miss out on more opportunities in food science, medicine, etc.
>>7859816
I don't think you know what you're saying man
>>7858944
>http://www.ift.unesp.br/users/mmenezes/mathbio.pdf
Half of these chapters are watered down versions of what we did in one junior biochemical engineering class, but I do respect any bio major with a background in this.
I'd rather employ you than a chemist anyway.
>>7858971
Engineer here.
It's ok. We don't have that autistic definition requiring pdes. We think of all science as lab monkeys with no math background (which the majority of them in industry are).
>>7859031
>Finally, you're really ignorant if you really think the scientists (PhDs and profs are the scientists in all scientific fields) working in molecular bio research for example, are not top-tier scientists or extremely smart. I suggest you meet some. You're not smarter than them whether or not your bachelor's degree contains the word "mathematics" in it.
You can't argue with these delusional apsies. He will be teaching high-school in 10 years and he will still be convinced that he is smarter than mol. bio researcher.
It's a common problem with losers who can't make many friends and their field isn't interdisciplinary enough like math to know what others are doing, so they think the shit they did in undergrad was actually difficult.
>>7859847
>Does the no jobs issue ever end?
Every field has jobs. Even chemistry. Even at a bachelors lebel. The problem is you need to in the top of your graduate pool and have a lot of luck to get it.
>I just wanna be a scientist.
Well what's your definition of "a scientist". Most lab/QC monkeys with tech. diplomas are called "scientist" by their company as are most chemsists working monotomous jobs. Maybe you should get more tangible goals than a vague image. QC jobs aren't that hard to get. Getting to be PhD researcher on the other hand is extremely difficult and competative, it's about 1000 times more effort for only about 10k per year salary bump too.
The worst being that most people go through grad-school and don't get a relevant job at all, then QC jobs are harder to get too and they end up working outside of STEM entirely.
>>7858893
>Whats the average day of a scientist like?
If you have a good supervisor or principal investigator, its generally a walk in the fucking park. However do note if you get an asshole of a supervisor it can make your life very miserable, especially if they keep judging you and shit. Though I guess this could be said for any job out there.
>I am majoring and STEM and want to know if i'm making a wrong choice.
See above.
>I ask this because I know a math major who loves math and majored in Engineering and said it was the worst thing he ever did.
See above.
>Oh, and if you are wondering I am majoring as a Bio fag but any scientist telling me their day to day would be nice.
See above. Though I'd say research in Bio is more stressful because of the pressure to deliver "positive results" of corporate drug trials or whatever.
>citing definition of science as basicallh just math instead of objectifying phenomena by experimentation and observation
It's like you have LITERALLY never conducted any research before.
>>7858893
May as well give you my experience.
Biochemistry bachelors - top tier university, poor result.
Spent first year doing minimum wage monkey work (sample loader and buffer technician).
Get a break into development arm of a CMO, wage doubles.
Spend 3 years learning the ropes - industrial protein purification, so running chromatography systems, packing columns, making buffers, doing basic sample analytics. Data recording is the biggest transferrable skill here.
Move on to a senior position, still doing pretty much the same thing, but getting to decide what the purification process is, regular meetings with customers and sales teams, regular meetings with scale up teams.
Am currently at lead, which means running a team of seniors, meeting regularly with CSOs from customers, helping sales close out proposals, transferring to worldwide manufacturing sites.
Stressful as fuck, but the occasional handwritten thankyou letter from a person who's had their life saved by one of our drugs makes it worth it.
>>7859847
>I don't think you know what you're saying man
organic chemistry. this field is cool
>>7859972
How much do you get paid exactly?
How did you get into that job when you only had technician tier minimum wage experience?
>>7860106
Currently ~£40K which is about the uk standard for the area and level.
I had the skillset they wanted from University and demonstrated transferable skills. When we revamped our recruitment a few years back we decided to focus less on the degree accquired but what was taught in the degree - plenty of practical labs usually makes better scientists - too much theory and people snap when things don't behave themselves.
>Ecology or Organic Chemistry are what I was thinking about majoring in
>Read thread
>No jobs
M-Maybe I should just go computer science.
biofag here,
apparently there are a lot of jobs in immunology
>>7858893
You could end up doing something like the guy in the picture is doing. Except it's not at all like the picture, it's not exciting and interesting. You're on your 5,000th vial of the day. You do the same shit to thousands of vials every single day. It's tedious and boring and the results mean almost nothing. You probably want to just smash the vials against the wall and say fuck this. You probably go out to the bar and drink a lot.
>>7860596
This.
But occasionally the clouds part and you get your 'Eureka!' or, even better, your Thats funny...' moment.
>>7860569
As some tropical countries become developed to the point where they can afford expensive medication, a good knowledge of immunology and parasitology will really pay off.
How hard is it to get a job in an industrial lab doing research? Not even leading, just being apart of a team that takes on new research projects? You would get to use different techniques and be less of a lab monkey right?
>>7858893
Smoke weed, make discoveries, munchies, meet up with prof bro and tutor some first years for a few hours a day.
>physicist.
>>7860702
Very hard, and you tend to get a definite goal in mind. Also, get used to projects stopping and starting as the budget holders get distracted by new shinies.
So what I'm getting out of this thread is that mathematicians are severely autistic and egotistical, and don't actually contribute anything to this world. Am I right?
Also what kind of work does a BME, or ChemE do? Are they lab monkeys too?
>>7860841
>and don't actually contribute anything to this world.
A few of them contribute. The bitter aspies you see on /sci/ don't have any meaningful publications (if any) out and are mostly undergrads.
>Also what kind of work does a BME, or ChemE do?
Two very different fields and within those fields there are very different jobs. BME is more focused on product development, ChemE is both product, but much more focused on mass scale production such as chemical manufacturing and processing plants etc.
>Are they lab monkeys too?
The shit ones are, you usually take a lab monkey/tech job after you were unsuccessful in getting a real engineering job.
>>7860854
How does one become an unsuccessful engineer?
>>7860924
>Be an aspie
>Exambaby through your degree
>Minimize social contact and exposure to material outside the curriculla
>Be allergic to working internshios/RAs during your summers
These threads really stress me the fuck out 2bh seems like whatever I'll do I'm stuck in nojobsland
Tfw biofag thinking of going biochem
>>7860938
What does exambaby mean? Is doing good on your exams not something you want?
>>7860964
It's the idea that all you have to show for yourself is grades, that you didn't do anything else but do good in school no internships etc
>>7860938
>all of those apply to me
>>7860998
They're not talking about during school, they mean graduating with just good grades
>>7860941
Are you me
Throughout my study i was actually getting the idea that biochem had alot of jobs avaible since most people dont want to go biochem
Guess i was wrong
>>7861632
Why wouldnt they? Seems like biochem is the most interesting
>>7861966
other students I know find it harder and are simply disinterested at what happens at the molecular level
>STEM
>Not double majoring in gender and african studies
>>7858966
so only physics and math are sciences. ok bud.
>>7859835
>>7859875
you're mostly correct but
>10k salary bump for the phd researcher
a lab tech will be doing soul crushing work for much less. a phd will be working a dream job for much more depending on how big your company is.
becoming a professor is where most of the competition comes in for phds. its damn near impossible because of all the tenured profs. as for industry jobs, i hear they are starting to come back. C&EN has done a few articles on job growth in both the east and west coast.
LOL BIOLOGY """"""MAJORS""""""" GETTING A """JOB"""
>>7863509
Isnt it because it's pretty broad?
Like they're meant to pick something, like plant biology, or animal biology, or people biology.
I doubled in molecular biology and chemistry. I had declared the mol bio in my sophomore year, but ended up knocking out a degree in chem in the spring of my junior year through the end of senior year.
In bio, your research experience has more effect on getting a job than your GPA. IMO, with a BA, your best bet is to work as a lab tech in academia for a few years. That's a very oft-used stepping stone to grad school, med school, R&D in industry, or even positions in the management arms of biotech firms.
My first year out of undergrad, back in 2011, I job hopped at a few temp positions in industry at small and mid-size firms. Wasn't good work, basically doing monkey work for CROs. I couldn't get anything stable for more than a few months or so. After about a year, I went back to academia, ended up spending two years as a tech on a few of my own projects. I ultimately went back to grad school (got in to a few PhD programs in biophysics/biochemistry), but I had offers to be an RA in industry at some very good biotechs.
kek @ physics majors still getting employed
>>7864138
>people biology
is this a real thing
>>7864222
This is why I'm going to grad school as a chem major. Everyone I know that has gone out into industry with a BS has come back complaining that the work is bullshit. Hopefully we can both land something once we finish our PhDs anon.
>>7859806
Judging from my [anecdote], [opinion]
>>7859024
>what is protein modelling
>>7860977
Do it, off yourself.
>>7860841
>a single undergrad on /sci/ is enough to tell about all mathematicians
You're as bad as that guy.
>>7858966
>I am sure that chem goes beyond PDEs.
ODE's are an elective, we stop at multivar/vector
