Where do you lie on the optimism-pessimism spectrum, /r9k/?
https://web.stanford.edu/class/msande271/onlinetools/LearnedOpt.html
Post your results and thoughts in the thread!
Why does it matter?
"Twenty-five years of study has convinced me that if we habitually believe,
as does the pessimist, that misfortune is our fault, is enduring, and will
undermine everything we do, more of it will befall us than if we believe otherwise.
I am also convinced that if we are in the grip of this view, we will get depressed easily,
we will accomplish less than our potential, and we will even get physically sick more often.
Pessimistic prophecies are self-fulfilling."
"Many things in life are beyond our control-our eye color, our race, the
drought in the Midwest. But there is a vast, unclaimed territory of actions
over which we can take control-or cede control to others or to fate. These
actions involve the way we lead our lives, how we deal with other people,
how we earn our living-all the aspects of existence in which we normally
have some degree of choice. The way we think about this realm of life can actually
diminish or enlarge the control we have over it. Our thoughts are not merely reactions to
events; they change what ensues."
The analogy is as such:
Smoking is to lung cancer as pessimism is to depression.
What if the traditional view of the components of success is wrong?
What if there is a third factor-optimism or pessimism-that matters as much as talent or desire?
What if you can have all the talent and desire necessary-yet, if you are a pessimist, still fail?
What if optimists do better at school, at work, and on the playing field?
What if optimism is a learned skill, one that can be permanently acquired?
"Pessimists can in fact learn to be optimists, and not through mindless devices
like whistling a happy tune or mouthing platitudes ("Every day, in every way,
I'm getting better and better"), but by learning a new set of cognitive skills."
"In general, depression is a disorder of the "I," failing in your own
eyes relative to your goals. In a society in which individualism is becoming
rampant, people more and more believe that they are the center of the
world. Such a belief system makes individual failure almost inconsolable.
Individual failure used to be buffered by the second force, the large
"we." When our grandparents failed, they had comfortable spiritual furniture
to rest in. They had, for the most part, their relationship to God,
their relationship to a nation they loved, their relationship to a community
and a large extended family. Faith in God, community, nation, and the
large extended family have all eroded in the last forty years, and the
spiritual furniture that we used to sit in has become threadbare."
That was a theory Martin Seligman put forth 25 years ago and I feel it still holds its salt today
I've been a pessimist since early high school and now at the age of 23 I'm tired of the depressive self-defeating baggage that comes with it. I want to live and breath, I want to be a part of the human race.
I'm reading this book in the hope that it is the ultimate panacea for our suffering, I have hope that by reconfiguring our habits of thought we too will make it; that it's not too late even for us!
Link to download the .pdf of Learned Optimism:
https://duniahartanto.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/ebooksclub-org__learned_optimism__how_to_change_your_mind_and_your_life.pdf
>>28065972
No offence OP but it seems to me rather... obvious.
I mean, by 'objective' or external social standards, I'm a failure - but personally I've never been happier, and yes I've always been pretty optimistic and my sense of optimism has been resilient in the face of bad things happening, and this optimism is obviously something you could replicate and learn.
That quote about "faith" seems silly, though. What if faith in those things was misplaced? How is it a better thing to be optimistic or to be able to 'fall back' on things external to yourself, if those things are subjective and sometimes false? Also, I've found that being free from other people, being MORE individual and so on is a part of my happiness - society, community, nation - all these things are bad for me and try to enforce values and standards that in many cases would make me feel like failure and make me depressed - because they're enforcing shitty values for their own self-serving purposes.
>>28065906
Wether you are optimistic or pessimistic depends on what kind of product your genetics interacting with your environment ended up producing. The vast majority of self help is a joke and the concept of potential is as dumb as it gets and has absolutely no place in our deterministic existence/reality.
im depressed, whats left to say
>>28066157
The central point is that it really doesn't matter if it is misplaced or not, if it helps you find contentment or better yet happiness in this life as opposed to suffering then it is worth it; if it is working against you then you need to drop it.
>>28066280
>>28066586
Except that this is not the end, it is very much possible to choose to change your habits of thought and therefore you life. Problem being bad habits die hard and good habits are difficult to form. It isn't some sort of potion you take and you're good without effort but if you want it you CAN INDEED have it.
What does this mean then?
>>28067744
Martin Seligman agrees that pessimism is a more rational and realist world view but yet too he says that it is a less healthy world view and that IT IS POSSIBLE to change your explanatory style, the habits of your internal monologue, and become more optimistic and therefore a happier and healthier individual should you feel a desire for such an outcome.
if you desire a change, try downloading the pdf from the link above and give it a read and concerted effort
we're gunna make it, but we have to want to make. Cultivating optimism will cultivate a will to live, change, grow, and succeed
This is the guy who came up with Learned Helplessness. Have a link to this?
>>28068821
second post has a link the the Learned Optimism .pdf
give it an effortful go my dude
we're gunna make it
I can't answer question 4.
This test is for normies
well here is my test
why will this self-help book work more than others? optimism is fine but it's delusional in the face of constant failures in social interactions or in life in general
>>28069252
Sorry, I guess my post was pretty ambiguous/poorly worded.
I was asking for a link to Learned Helplessness.
>>28070245
This isnt the bull shit you usually see on the shelves at barnes and nobles and other crap. its psychology material dating back to the 60s and 70s, over 30 years of study and refinement.
It's the foundation of modern cognative behavioral therapys (CBT) and it's talking about the way one thinks and the habits therein and how they can affect you.
It's about ones 'explanatory style' or otherwise your internal monologue, the ways in which you speak to yourself and about events in your life and how you explain them. As well as the phenomenon known as 'learned helplessness' which is essentially laboratory depression that has been observed in animals and subsequently cured.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHEu9bGFTNs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFmFOmprTt0
It is agreed that pessimism, when employed in the right situations, is a good thing; however systemic pessimism in your mind spanning all situations in your life is unhealthy and demoralizing, the ultimate form of that is depression. It erodes your will to power and desire to live, change, grow, and succeed.
You will agree that pessimism and depression are not enjoyable states of being, correct? Martin Seligman has proven that IT IS NOT a PERMANENT mind set.
Where pessimism demotivates and argues futility of actions, optimism energizes and motivates oneself with the belief that YES WE ARE GOING TO MAKE IT.
Yes You Can Learn Optimism.
>>28071182
I actually had the book downloaded before this thread, I think I'll actually sit down and read it if my ADHD can tolerate it.
>>2807153
It's fucked up to hear it, but it seems that the brain only wants to focus on what it believes is worthwhile. We've learned to disregard so much due to the pessimistic beliefs that our actions therein will not bring 'fruit.' I avoid speaking to women due to the pessimistic belief that they will only see me as creepy and unattractive. One must cultivate a hope that change is indeed possible and that this is the avenue that can and will work. Woth that belief your brain will mobilize itself to focus on the tasks at hand.
How do I learn to be optimistic?
>>28072570
Learned Optimism .pdf doenload link in second post lad
>>28065906
I gave up after first question.
More that 80% of those questions are for situations that never happened to me, I refuse to believe that outcome would be accurate.
>>28065906
These questions are shite, the outcomes are obvious despite some of the answers not being remotely pessimistic and half the of the scenarios completely unrelatable.
>>28074097
>>28074000
It isn't about the situations, it's about the tone of the response that you choose.
>>28074325
>tone
But then it turns into a game of pick out the pessimistic "tone" responses since they're so obvious
>>28074325
Well usually both responses are so fucking unreal and absurdic to me, that I dont even feel any inclination what to pick.
Like that shit with flowe from secret admirer, I need something like this :
It was a mistake
Shut the fuck up you pseudo-psych self-help faggot.
I know you are here to seek validation that you have "the answers to everyone's problem" and I'm here to tell you that the answer to YOUR problem is a healthy dose of blunt trauma.
>>28074384
It's not a game, it's about choosing the response that YOU would make to gauge YOUR particular state of mind. Pessimists are more prone to depression than optimists, the more pessimistic the more potential for despair.
>>28074399
The absurdity has nothing to do with it, just pick one ya goon
>>28074445
t. miserable robot
Your change is in your hands, i cant make a horse drink from the watering hole I lead him to.
>>28074561
>Pessimists are more prone to depression than optimists, the more pessimistic the more potential for despair.
Water is wet.
>>28074561
The only watering hole you are going is to your local bar at midnight when you realize preaching your faggotry to a bunch of depressed young men doesn't fill the gaping void in your life (emotional void, not your loose asshole.)
![il_fullxfull.215943609[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FHz1AJi.jpg "il_fullxfull.215943609[1].jpg")
>>28074561
>bout choosing the response that YOU would make to gauge YOUR particular state of mind
I wouldn't choose either response because I wouldn't be in that situation. It's far too easy to choose results based on preconceived notions.
This test is poorly put together, it's like a "doctor" using a fisherprice toy to figure out what is wrong with you.
So it's essentially lying to myself to make myself feel better?
Yeah, no thanks.
Optimism is, indeed, learned.
That goes for the other side of the coin.
If there are so many people that are pessimistic, there had to be something that made them pessimistic.
tl;dr only way to learn optimism is through experience; learning it forcefully is useless
Trying to forcefully learn optimism is a waste. Having a positive outlook while your life has a stable trend of staying negative is obvious self-deception.
