Are computer science degrees a meme?
For many, they're a con job. The reason why the salaries for programmers are as high as they are is because most people can't / won't do the work.
But, the only way you can really know if you're cut out for the work is if you try.
I'm trying to teach what I know to a friend of mine and it's hard, boring, and shitty for them.
>>26626489
Fucking yes. I have one and I feel like it is one of the biggest mistakes I have made in my life. Software Development as a career is fucking horrid, and completely unlike the kind of CS/coding stuff you enjoy doing or whatever while you're in school. I'm a competent and versatile developer, but I fucking hate it. I don't even have any college debt because I went to school for free, but I am quite literally enslaved to a salary. I need it because I moved into an expensive apartment and I live a moderately expensive lifestyle. I've seriously developed alcoholism in the past two years and it is rather expensive, even though I only ever buy cheap whiskey nowadays.
Computer Science degrees are a fucking trap, "muh vidya game development" is the fucking nectar that lures most people in too, I think, which is fucking unrealistic given the % of available jobs that exist in that area for developers. Also I constantly hear that gamedev is super fucking brutal and unfun.
Also mother fucking Indians are the bane of the industry, god fucking dammit I fucking hate them so much. Holy fucking shit you can't even believe. And this is not a fucking poo in loo DESIGNATED meme shit. I fucking hate them.
Questions?
>>26626737
What's the difference between the fun programming & that which is d e s i gnated
>>26626489
Do I need to finish college for a job in coding. Seems like the perfect job for a robot that can't be bothered.
>>26626865
If you can't be bothered with college, then you probably don't have the mentality to stick to learning it on your own when you get bored or frustrated.
But if you're part of the 1% of people that can, I think it's possible. You'll just have to work harder than a college guy ever did to get the same job. :)
>>26626489
Oh man. Well I don't know about programming but I would say if you go into network implementation/design/admin or Security or Enterprise system admin then getting a business degree will serve you better. Hiring managers know dick about tech but they fucking love tech guys with business degrees. In the modern white color world the business degree is like having a universal adapter.
It's boring as FUCK though. Minor in CS if you want to.
Having said all of this in the fields listed above you can actually get by with no degree, although it helps if you had some college.
I don't know. I switched to CS minor because I like coding but don't want it as a career. Also it's obvious most people in the classes are just doing it because they think it's the easiest way to get a job, so there must be a fuckton of competition.
outsourcing is a huge problem right now.
also if you're seriously good at programming there are a fuck load of freelance opportunities
>>26627002
Actually if you work in the defense industry, tech workers MUST be citizens to get those jobs because you need a security clearance.
That's probably the best way to ensure against that.
>>26626737
>Also mother fucking Indians are the bane of the industry
Elaborate. I'm trying to decide my future right now, so be honest.
Are H1b indians really killing all the jobs?
>>26627153
It's probably not the H1B work visas that are the issue. It's the direct outsourcing. To a lot of different countries, these days eastern europe.
Programming is a shit profession.
>write 3000+ lines of code
>25,000 characters
>weeks worth of work
>do one thing wrong
>restart
>no money
Only fat autists have the urge to do it because normies took literally any other job.
>>26627763
Honestly, what is another job that someone can get that compares, salary-wise?
>>26627807
The union pays 1200 a week.
>>26626904
Not the guy you responded to in the first place, but I am, just like him, studying basically what amounts to CS on my own and have been doing so for the last 5 months, have made tons of progress.
Why?
Because there are SO MANY, SO SO many resources one could use FOR FREE and instantly start learning - books, whole courses, all kinds of websites etc etc.
1% is too low.
>>26626489
absolutely. it's a completely average degree in terms of what you'll realistically be seeing in a salary (lucky silicon valley babbies push the ceiling way up), you won't be able to do anything with a bachelor's you can't already do with certs, higher-than-bachelors level work where you genuinely need the skillset is a rarity, and your managers/bosses know jack shit about anything and will constantly ask you to do impossible things in way too short of a timespan if you sign on as a software dev
if you're not good at self-teaching and you want go into freelance web dev it's an alright choice, i assume. freelance web dev is pretty huge / more lucrative than it should be, although you'll have to have some people skills
>>26627875
>1% is too low
Too high*
lel, it's an oversaturated industry plagued with freelancers living in noir vans.
>>26626737
american with indian parentage here
i excel in computer science and have been working in the field since I graduated 8 years ago
double majored in math too
sucks you're a degenerate alcoholic, otherwise you might be able to land a better job, rich boy
>>26626489
They're a meme because people think "Oh look there's lots of jobs of there, I'll just do this, you sit inside all day and type shit, I like using computers, how hard can it possibly be?" and then they waste thousands on the degree only to drop out because it's actually obnoxious work if you're not at least somewhat autistic.
>>26627875
>>26627961
Regardless, of the exact percentage, the number of people that would do this on their own is in the single-digit percentages. Most people wouldn't even know where to start. And because of the sheer amount of free knowledge out there, it makes things more confusing, not less. It's a hindrance, not a positive. And, add to it that most of it is out-of-date, it's nearly an impossible task.
Trust me, I'm seeing it now, am training someone new right now. Without someone teaching them, most wouldn't have a hope in hell.
Even in a proper comp sci course, the dropout rate is over 50%.
>>26626737
>I don't even have any college debt because I went to school for free, but I am quite literally enslaved to a salary. I need it because I moved into an expensive apartment and I live a moderately expensive lifestyle.
This is not a problem with computer science, you did this to yourself.
>>26627961
I live in a city where they literally run advertisements for software jobs on the side of buses and buildings, what are you talking about "oversaturated", everything says the opposite.
>>26627153
In my opinion, indians aren't killing jobs. In fact, I would be surprised if they're not inadvertently CREATING them.
I'll give my credentials: I worked for "Tata Consultancy Services" It is part of a massive conglomeration of shit, but "TCS" is the IT/Software Consulting branch. They are very large and are an Indian company that operates "globally".
Literally every single fucking one of my co-workers was an Indian. My supervisors, everyone on every team I worked with, all the executives and business people.
But i digress, sorry. Point is I know about mother fucking indians.
Indians are complete shit. For every bug-ridden feature they "implement" they introduce a bunch of unintended consequences or break something that already exists. Everything is misused and oftentimes their methods of troubleshooting include literally just doing random shit and fucking up other stuff. Whenever they do any work, they create a bunch more shit that needs to be fixed. There's actually a name for this in case you are unaware, it's called "negative work". This is what indians do. They do negative work. They generate tons of bullshit, paperwork, procedure, etc all as a smokescreen to confuse the client. We literally had 3 meetings a week which were devoted to "business strategy". These meetings were with ALL the TCS employees onsite and they would give a very brief, high-level summary of their project's "status". But the REAL purpose of the meetings was for management to spend 45 minutes giving us ways to mislead the client and all kinds of bullshit.
It's a business model. It's a god damn scam and it's fucking infuriating to be involved with. This is the business model: create software for super cheap. They actually lose money whenever they build an application. They make money by SUPPORTING it, which, again, really means constantly creating new issues that need to be "fixed". Rinse and repeat.
More questions? Was this helpful?
>>26627002
outsourcing is actually going down lately now that people are realizing that the overhead involved in translation and telling them to do it again and again because they fucked it up the first time isn't worth it
unless you get into a company with google tier perks, it's a shit job just like any other
want to get into a start up? enjoy worthless stock options over 90% of the time
but if you live frugally, you can afford nice hobbies like sex tourism
>>26628099
>out-of-date
MIT OCW is all you need to start and keep going for a while, they have tons of content
languages used:
python 2
C
java (this does get outdated though, so that;s a problem)
scheme (a couple of courses)
if you don't know about mit ocw, google it, show it to your apprentice, some of the courses are insanely complete
and if you know about the courses, since you are an actual programmer, i would like to hear what you think of the courses, other programmers could chime in too
I'm that kid who started programming at age 10 for fun, and to me it's totally worth it.
The degrees are becoming worthless though since everyone and their mother thinks they can do it and since the pay is good, they all go into a comp sci program and inevitably drop out because they don't know what the fuck they're doing.
That and the average college's comp sci program is mediocre at best, so you get a lot of people with a 4 year CS degree and little to no skills to show for it.
That said, if you can find a good company (and there are plenty), it's enjoyable work for pretty damn good pay, rarely a dress code, and often cool coworkers.
If you get a degree in CS or SE though, make sure you work for a software company, as opposed to doing in-house work for a non-software company.
In software companies, the management is usually engineers who got promoted into it, so they don't give you bullshit deadlines, they know what's possible and what's not, and they don't have ridiculous expectations.
>>26626831
In my opinion, it's not fun to maintain shitty, broken, completely undocumented code written by fucking retards. It's not fun to not be able to change a character or a line of code without two weeks of process and paperwork. It's not fun to have to collaborate with god damn shitskins who don't even speak English, but constantly nod their heads like they understand (which they don't, because not only can they not understand the language theyre supposed to work in, they have the cognitive ability of a 12 year old.
It's fun to actually make something. It's fun to learn a new programming language or something. It's fun to not have to worry about 75% of the contributions to your codebase needing to be completely reworked.
It's not fun to have your manager promise stupid bullshit to the client without asking you or your team and "needing" you to deliver it in the current release, which you're already behind on because you have to deal with a bunch of monkey indians fucking everything up. It's not fun to have to be on a phone call at 6:30 in the morning and midnight later that night because you have to explain things to the even WORSE indians who are actually still in new bangladehli or whatever the fuck. It's not fun for your manager to call you while you're at a bar with your friends on saturday night and tell you that he needs you RIGHT NOW because the ENTIRE APPLICATION IS DOWN, NO ONE CAN LOG IN! But really there were just two fucking retards who couldn't log in to the application BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T LOGGED ON TO THE GOD DAMN VPN, SO THEY ASSUME THAT NO USER CAN LOG IN and lodge a high severity ticket that requires your response within 15 minutes. So actually there was no problem at all except for the people you have to do everything for and the people you have to do everything with are all fucking massive imbeciles.
>>26628266
yeah thank fuck
>>26628400
What I'm hearing is that your workplace fucking sucks. It's not like it's that hard to find a new job in software, unless your degree is shitty or you have literally no contacts, which, given this is /r9k/, is entirely possible.
>>26628441
This is probably entirely true and I'm actually job hunting right now.
But regardless, this has been my experience at multiple workplaces, TCS just being by FAR the worst. I just took the position because it was in an area that I needed to move to and the pay was honestly quite good. But unless you're working at a small start up or something, you're going to have to work with Indians in some facet of your job, even if they're not directly your coworker.
>>26628321
I've heard about the courses and my apprentice has tried them. But, they are trying to get a leg up against people with CS degrees, so we're focusing only half on languages and the other half on things like DB design and performance, proper usage of revision control systems, writing unit tests, running a project in an agile way, server administration, etc. Trying to get as well-rounded as we can by doing industry-level activities and using many tools.
I have heard that they are good courses, though. I'll check them out.
> Are computer science degrees a meme?
Not really, I enjoy my job as a software engineer and have more money/time than I know what to do with. I guess it depends on where you end up working, cubicle farms will be shitty no matter what job you're doing.
>>26626489
Question from a Comp Sci major, is Compter Science a meme degree if you plan on getting into network security/IT and not programming?
>>26628516
Yeah, probably. I haven't graduated yet, but I had an internship where our (very small) company outsourced parts of the mobile app work to a Vietnamese team. They said they had a guy with 'mobile experience' which turned out to mean 'mobile web dev' and not 'native Android dev' which was what we needed. To his credit he did an okay-ish job and his code mostly wasn't complete crap, but we still had to do a lot of rewriting and rejecting commits and it was like working with a freshman CS with no prior experience. We ended up just not using a lot of his code and me and one coworker refactoring and working on the app ourselves. That's not to say I didn't enjoy the experience, the people I worked directly with were great.
>>26628204
This is the best post I've read here in awhile. I love the concept of negative work, makes me smile. I think I've found my new specialty.
>>26628598
Try to get a minor in something crypto/security related if your school offers it. If not there are lots of certifications you can get, but the classes are expensive. A lot of workplaces will pay for them though. Don't go into IT; it's tedious, underappreciated, and doesn't pay that well. Network security on the other hand is ludicrous. Jobs are harder to find there, but the pay is much better if you're good at it.
>>26628658
Thanks anon, i'll look around
>>26626950
>Oh man. Well I don't know about programming but I would say if you go into network implementation/design/admin or Security or Enterprise system admin then getting a business degree will serve you better. Hiring managers know dick about tech but they fucking love tech guys with business degrees. In the modern white color world the business degree is like having a universal adapter.
tfw i have an econ/business degree and roughly 1yr work experience as a web programmer and db manager
>>26628726
Emphasize the hell out of it on your resume, and work on it in your spare time so you actually know what the hell you're talking about. One year isn't a ton, but it's a shitton more than most people, so you've got a leg up. Of course, work experience is much more relevant than, say, a year of college classes, so I might not be giving you enough credit. Either way talk it up.
>>26628726
Yeah man, and what is great is that unlike with a lot of really tech heavy professions, the older you get the more valuable you become. Not true if you are tech without a business or econ degree.
Why do you think there are so few managers who don't understand the practicalities of tech? Forget the actual tech knowledge. They have other shit to do and can't be up on everything, but what about the actual day to day way things work and get done? Because they have never done it.
Lots of tech guys get pushed out at 50 if they don't go into management. Tech with a good degree can be managers, directors, architects, CTOs, etc.
>>26628726
I would offer a grain of salt for this. While it is a good position to be in, it's a bit harder to get your foot in the door. You can't exactly expect to be a manager straight out of school and by the time you graduate with an MBA you're a year or two removed from the tech field.
Additionally, anyone tech-related will probably hate you because you don't know how your decisions will impact them beyond "oh this will save us buku shekels huehuehue" and will likely result in a shitty product and work environment.
>>26627092
I work for an aerospace manufacturer with plenty of ITAR stuff, but we still manage to outsource certain things, it just becomes a bigger headache the more ITAR you've got. HCL (the Indian cokemonkey sweatshop) has been continually disappointing us lately, so I think management is starting to realize they get what they pay for.
>>26628397
I haven't had this problem, because my boss was once implementing systems in my position.
Nowadays I'm just writing XSLT scripts and it's probably the most enjoyable thing I've done here. Because most of what other work needs to be done is just configuring commercial software.
>>26628945
>You can't exactly expect to be a manager straight out of school and by the time you graduate with an MBA you're a year or two removed from the tech field.
This is true. I say stay in tech as long as you can, anyway. Especially if you enjoy it.
>Additionally, anyone tech-related will probably hate you because you don't know how your decisions will impact them beyond "oh this will save us buku shekels huehuehue" and will likely result in a shitty product and work environment.
Nah, this is bullshit. Guys in tech are guys in tech. I work with about 10 guys and half have degrees and half don't. Most that do have degrees are not in CS and they aren't any different.
If you wear a shirt and tie and brown nose then yeah they are going to hate you no matter what degree you have.
>>26629030
That's exactly what you want, you want to work for a place that promotes engineers into management. If your boss was in your position once, they'll be better at their job and you'll enjoy your job more too.
is computer security and forensics worth getting into? or is it an even bigger meme degree
>>26629122
Everything I've heard says that there are fewer jobs in it, but it pays really well if you can get into it. It's stressful though, and legitimately difficult, especially if you're not super into the work.
>>26629122
>Is computer security and forensics worth getting into? or is it an even bigger meme degree
This is my field. I am this guy >>26629071
So as I said
> I work with about 10 guys and half have degrees and half don't. Most that do have degrees are not in CS
I can't tell you if a degree will help you to the point it is worth the cost. Getting in entry level operations and learning from the ground up is key, degree or no.
I can tell you it also depends on the country. In the US very few guys I work with went to school for CS at all. Even the top tier guys. In our AUS and EURO offices EVERYONE has a college degree, most often in CS some with security. Having said that I don't see them as being any better at it than we are. We had to train them, so....
>>26629175
This is what I've been thinking. Got an offer to do a course in it but I'm worried about if it's going to be worth it in long run and wondering if I should have gone for Computer Science instead.
>>26629202
I'm actually studying abroad right now, and I get the impression that degrees in Europe aren't worth as much as degrees in the States.
Must be why people go there to study I guess, which is saying something since to me the average US CS degree isn't worth a whole lot either.
To be fair though, I go to an extremely difficult school so maybe my expectations are skewed.
>>26629175
>Everything I've heard says that there are fewer jobs in it
Security is EXPLODING. There are TONS of jobs. TONS. Thousands upon thousands.
>but it pays really well if you can get into it.
True
>It's stressful though, and legitimately difficult
True, very true at the beginning. Operations, handling alerts and analysis and then sometimes remediation is frequently fast paced. It can be an assembly line of FUCK.
> especially if you're not super into the work.
This is also true. If you aren't into it you will fall behind in knowledge and push yourself out of the market.
>>26629299
>Security is EXPLODING. There are TONS of jobs. TONS. Thousands upon thousands.
Are there? I'm still in school so I'm not super in touch with the industry. Good to hear though, might impact my choice of electives next year.
It's interesting stuff to me but I don't know if I could handle the challenge. I am one of those people that reverse engineers binaries and stares at assembly code for fun in their free time though, so maybe.
>>26628118
>I live in a city where they literally run advertisements for software jobs
Dude there are advertisements for everything.
Sysadmin or give up.
>>26629379
Sysadmins hardly even need to code. Configuration management and automated deployment is where it's at now.
>>26629299
What would you recommend to a recent high school grad to begin if they want to enter CompSec?
>>26627763
If your environment is so bad you lose your work you are an idiot
>>26626532
This is true
>>26626904
Non college educated and in SV but a lot of friends who tried failed so I mostly agree
>>26629394
That young?
Try starting out doing helpdesk, gain general IT knowledge on the job. Get a feel for the corporate space and how they handle machines and software on a large scale.
Read up frequently about end user security and current threats and such. Get familiar with what tools they are using on the desktop level to scan and identify threats. You'll be the one they call to re-image an infected machine. Understand what's going on when that happens.
If you can spot a security issue before or even while the secops team is working on it, even if you can't resolve it, reporting it will raise your profile.
Get close to the security guy and tell him you are interested and if he needs help with any remediation you'd be happy to help.
Try dipping your toes into the CISSP training materials. Don't try to take the test and skip all the legal and regulatory stuff for now. Focus on the actual security technical sections. Shon Harris's book is exhaustively complete.
>>26629389
Yeah but I don't know a sysadmin who can't script amazing shit in perl.
>>26629568
True.
Perl's gross though, I'd use Ruby.
CS is a huge, booming field. Developers make six-figure salaries when they are a couple of years out of college, because there is an enormous demand for programmers and not enough supply. If you can do the work without being miserable, then it is a great field to go into.
I'd say it's a pretty good degree to have right now. I'm in my final year of it right now and have a nice job already secured at Amazon after I graduate. That being said, going freelance developer is viable if you have some good contacts.
Or you could try do a bullshit start-up that doesn't do anything useful and try and sell it to Facebook/Twitter/Google. Though to do that you have to be Hipster Chad
>>26629604
Yeah but perl is ubiquitous and that's very important. You don't always get to pick.
sidenote: I knew a guy who would punch his desk if he had to get on a system and do something without emacs. He refused to get good a vi. The problem is vi is ALWAYS there. Same with perl. You can only do so much with shell scripts.
>>26629622
Those salaries might be a bit exaggerated. Maybe on the West coast, where living costs are insane, that's true, but most everywhere else in the US you'll probably be making more like $70-80k a few years out of college. Depends on a lot though.
>>26629622
>there is an enormous demand for programmers and not enough supply
There it is again
>>26626489
Yes, you hack fraud fuck.
>>26629647
That's something I make a point to do, learn everything, whether or not I think it'll help me. I've gotten decent at vim, and I install plugins to support vim emulation on pretty much every IDE I ever use because it's so nice to have.
I've used Perl, once, at my first internship, but we ended up rewriting the thing in Python because there was only one guy in the whole place who knew Perl so it wouldn't be maintainable.
>>26629654
I live and work in subrubs outside of Boston. Living costs are greater than the middle of nowhere, but not that bad. Newly-hired developers at my company make $95k a year, not counting the yearly bonus that puts it into six figures. Even if you start at a different company, you won't be making that much less money. If you stay at the company a couple of years and are good at your job, you can get a promotion and make six figures.
>>26629660
Yes, there it is, genius - the truth. Why do you think programming salaries are so high? You think companies pay six figures to people barely out of college because desperate programmers are coming to them begging for jobs and willing to take minimal pay?
>>26626489
A stint at uni studying comp-sci left me depressive-suicidal. Probably would have happened regardless of the course, but I found computer science fucking terrible.
>>26629785
It's the sort of thing you either love or you hate, and you find out pretty quickly which it is.
>>26626737
I feel you man. I became a heavy alcoholic all through school majoring in math and csc (still managed to graduate with a 3.9 though).
Worked for a mega corp for a couple years and started drinking even heavier. I hated it there so much I walked away from the money and quit. Recently got a decent job at a small company after taking some time to get my shit together though and it's not bad. Then again I'm the only real developer there which makes life 10 times easier for me.
>>26629806
I'm inclined to disagree. Programming is really tough to learn when you're just starting out; you have to wrap your mind around a whole new way of thinking. How good your instructor is makes a huge difference in how well you learn it and what your experience is like with it. Although, still, I can see being frustrated with debugging and what-have-you.
>>26628400
You should really start looking for a better place to work man.
>>26629751
The median starting salary is ~$50k, at its lowest its $35k. Your company probably pays their new hires $95k because it costs over $2k a month for a studio apartment in Boston
Fuck off with your lies, the software development field is becoming inflated with labor and many college grads are unemployed because of your "programmers are in high demand!" memes over the past 5 years.
>>26629856
>>26629806
How is it hard to learn ?
>in first year of cs meme degree
>not even interested in cs
>find myself thinking of things in context of programming and thinking in algorithms
am i just autistic ?i actually probably am on the autism spectrum
>>26629856
Yeah my tutors were shit, even the turbo-nerds were confused and they already knew what was being taught. However, I reckon I'm just not cut out for STEM desu
>>26629935
The company is not in Boston; it is in Watertown. One-bedroom apartments in Watertown can be found for $1600/mo; two-bedrroms for $1800/mo. Median entry-level salaries for developers are $70k according to this website: http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary/4fd947de/Entry-Level
I have no idea why you have it in your head that this is a 'meme'. Maybe you are a contrarian retard. Maybe you are a troll. Maybe you have some weird vendetta against software developers. But one thing is clear - you have no fucking idea what you are talking about.
>>26630048
There's no such thing as 'not cut out for STEM'. If you apply yourself to it, you can learn it.
>>26630071
Yr. probably right. Much happier as a dropout loser turned graphic design student though. Career prospects are null, but I'll worry about that when it comes to it.
>>26630071
>There's no such thing as 'not cut out for STEM'.
Well yes and no. There are some people who have "The Knack"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmYDgncMhXw
...and they are amazing. I think there are some people who's abilities lie outside STEM but yes A LOT if not MOST people who apply themselves could do ok in STEM.
I have seen people beat their heads over stuff an never get it. I knew a dude would would cry in the SecOPS center because it was so frustrating. We would train him over and over and he just couldn't do it.
>>26630071
I tend to think it's about motivation; if you're motivated, you can learn something even if you don't have that much interest in it. If you're interested in it, that can provide the motivation on its own.
Don't go into it OP.I like CS and the less of us there are the more I make
>>26629827
>only developer
see, that's the kind of gig i really want to land
Does it still pay well, comparatively?
>>26629903
yeah, i'm on it. I'm trying to move somewhere specific though so I'm artificially narrowing my options. Makes it a bit more difficult.
>>26630194
That could go either way; either they won't understand what you're doing, so they'll assume everything you say is right and accept it without question, or they won't understand what you're doing, so they'll have unrealistic expectations, insane deadlines, and ask for impossible features.
>>26630156
My memory is horrible, always struggled with route memorization. It's kind of hard to progress when you need to backtrack for every little thing. I'd have stuck with it if it weren't for the crippling isolation and depression.
>>26630249
I'm the same way, I can't memorize things for shit. I had to repeat an American History class in high school.
I don't know about you, but I learn by having hands-on experience. If I work with something long enough, it becomes ingrained and second nature. That's why I do a lot of personal projects, mostly for learning purposes.
>>26630279
>>26630249
Nobody is perfect. I failed 8th grade, dropped out of college and my memory is all visual. If I can't look at it I can't do it. Terrible for trying to troubleshoot remote shit over the phone with someone is is borderline retarded.
I am a senior security engineer and make six figs + bonus.
>>26630317
Whats the best way to get into a security engineer position? I'm graduating from Computer Science this year and have very little security expertise. But I'm a good programmer and decent at other areas of CS. Should I start practicing on my own and start attending OWASP meetings or what?
>>26626489
No they're fairly good as long as you're capable and gifted. (Take my opinion with a grain of salt I nearly failed high school.)
If you're actually good you won't need worry about the over saturation of the field.
>>26626532
I tried teaching a friend to program but he just wouldn't stop fucking cheating and copying from stackoverflow
stackoverflow is the fucking meme dude
>>26630871
You really need to start in operations and work your way up. That's usually watching/responding to alerts, monitoring status and responding or notifying that something is down.
As you get more responsibility you might get access to implement changes/do change control.
If you want to learn the most, try to get a job with an MSSP, it's shift work but people move up and out to better jobs all the time so they are usually hiring. And with more companies outsourcing their security the entry level jobs are there.
Engineering comes later and is more about implementation and such. Really depends on the org. Almost everyone who starts out in security gets some kind of operations/analysis experience.
There are slightly different paths for some disciplines, like app security, and pen testing, but even pen testers usually start out in ops to learn the vulns and such.
I graduated with a computer engineering from a mediocre state uni. Now I am working in a dead end position as a software tester which I find to be meaningless and dull. I constantly think about suicide. I haven't coded shit for a while and don't see myself getting out of this position anytime soon. I regret doing comp eng. What do?
>>26630963
You need therapy and career counseling. In that order.
>>26631075
Shit advice.
I never wanted to kill myself but I have similar feels. I have a worthless degree and work in a field that is pretty much a dead end for me (but not for Stacies). Therapy and career counseling have done nothing for me so far.
Degrees in general are a meme.
>You will only be successful if you go to college
The greatest lie perpetuated in the US public education system.
habe any of u guys coded a gf
