Capitalism is cancer. Do robots agree?
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Capitalism is cancer. Do robots agree?
>>29216345
the reason why your disgusting fat wrinkled ass is on this board and not slaving on some dairy farm right now is because of capitalism. fucking commie.
>>29216432
No. His ass is here because communism threatened capitalists into giving some basic rights to it's slaves in fear of revolt.
>>29216345
Global capitalism is cancer yes but socialism collapses quicker and harsher.
Yeah capitalism is so terrible why can't we just all hold hands and jerk each other off until we die? #feelthebern
Yeah i agree op :)
>>29216345
American politics are cancer in general. Your either left or your right wing. Its completely stupid. George Washington would be ashamed of america today.
>>29216345
yes capitalism is cancer.
Unfortunately it's just melanoma while everything else is metastasizing leukemia.
>>29216613
Why would he be ashamed?
Bernie pls go richfags cant be robots
>>29216432
I'm 6'1 and 165 lbs and just got out of tbe shower 2 hours ago, you little alt-right /pol/ posting bitchcuck. Pretty damn sure that I'm not fat, wrinkled, nor disgusting, but good job once again at making ASSumptions about other people for having different opinions. Typical conservatives, always being willfully ignorant of reality.
Sad!
>it's another "liberal college student thinks they have a better grasp on politics and economics than anyone else without realizing how much they have and will continue to benefit from the current system"
>>29216345
>Do robots agree?
My grand-mother when she was young had no electricity, had to wash clothes outside in cold water in winter.
Whereas her grand-son is shitposting on a vietnamese marxist pamphlets writing imageboard.
All in all, your cancer sounds like progress.
>>29216345
Eat shit in hell neckbeard
Capitalism is the best idea humanity ever thought of.
>>29216888
>he uses personal anecdotes as "evidence"
Typical capitalist brainwashing!
Sad!
>>29216805
>democratic socialist
Fucking kill yourself. I know this is pure bait, but socialism is achieved through revolution dammit.
>>29216345
you sound like the kind of bitch that gets offended by the colour of the boys and girls sections at toy stores.
>>29216833
>Le smug anime girl avatar.jpg
>>>/plebbit/
Economically goddamn commie, socially deeply conservative, not American. Fuck me over fags. Feel free to do so, I'm going to bed.
>>29216345
>capitalism is cancer
>posts an image with an anarcho-capitalist flag
Nice one OP great bait.
Well, yes, capitalism is cancer. A cancer spreading, not forgiving, turning into fucking libertarianism bullshit which has no regard for human dignity or to those who aren't able to work. Humanity needs to evolve as a society, not as a multitude of individuals. This is how wars came to be, because capitalists don't want to share their resources for the common good
>>29218018
>This is how wars came to be, because capitalists don't want to share their resources for the common good
You don't actually believe this, do you?
>>29217539
this is literally nigger politics
Niggers are fiscal liberals who want gibsmedats, but they're social conservatives who want to off degenerates.
Iraq War, Afghanistan War, all the wars in Africa, even the fucking Opium Wars were started because the British wanted the Chinese resources
>>29218144
>mfw nigger politics are apparently identical to Nazi politics
>mfw it dawned on me that the developed world has no revolutionary potential
>tfw the third world will get communism and we'll get left behind in dystopian corporate feudalism
>>29218108
Or do you believe in "the war on terror"?
>>29216613
There's no left wing in Ameria.
You're either right-wing or extreme right-wing.
Obama would be considered a conservative in any other country.
>>29216345
Capitalism is the ULTIMATE CANCER and the death of all our valors and traditions. All countries that have been capitalist for a good amount of time are now hoarded with immigrants branded as refugees in order to work for less money and increas the jew gold.
>>29218219
AHAHAHAHAHAHA
oh fuck that's not an original comment is it?
>AHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>29218258
>there are actually people who think Obama is a fucking Marxist
>>29218269
This.
It's funny how alt-right beta males blame "socialists" for importing immigrants when all the while its big capitalist corporations that benefit from it and lobby for more lax immigration laws.
>>29218258
>mfw somebody implies that socialism is a form of extreme liberalism
YOU FUCKING RETARDS A LIBERAL IS ANYBODY WHO SUPPORTS CAPITALISM
>>29218235
Lets not move the goal posts here buddy
>>29218258
And look how that's working out for you, eurocuck. You live in an open borders welfare state with a trash economy where free speech is considered less important than feels.
>>29218313
In America liberal is just a synonym for 'left wing'.
>>29218327
>muh free speech
kill yourself
>>29218349
And it's fucking bullshit. I hate mainstream political discourse because it seems like nobody has ever bothered to read anything. Especially people who think socialism=welfare state. By that logic Bismark's Prussia was socialist and they sure as hell weren't socialist.
>>29218327
At least they don't kick mothers out of hospitals after 24h from when they gave birth here in Europe
>>29218313
Americans have twisted the meaning of words so that they mean the opposite of their original meaning.
Americans (republicans specifically) are mostly low IQ retards who think that anything that's publicly funded is bad. They worship their rich overlords in the vain hope that one day they'll become one of them.
>>29218327
It's working out quite well to be honest. We've got issues just like any country but I'd rather have our issues than your issues burger friend.
>>29218327
>pretending the right care about free speech either
Free speech literally doesn't exist. There's always going to be social taboos on certain things.
This sums up everything you need to know about anglo "democracy" and it's main weapon - capitalism.
Fight against this shit, or you will be silenced and plundered until there is nothing left.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=froTxqKSqc4
>>29218307
Welfare is only the natural consequence of capitalism. Im not saying marxism is good, but compared to capitalism, its like getting hit by a rock vs getting hit by thunder.
>>29218392
actually republicans are smart. Especially the ones living in New York, California, etc.
>when fascists think they're anti-capitalist
kek
Here's something for you /pol/fags to chew on: the Soviet Union was very socially conservative and ethnically homogeneous. Same as China under Mao. If you really want to save the white race I suggest you break ties with the ancap/libertarian side of the alt-right and embrace Marxism-Leninism.
>>29218439
Countless studies have shown that Republicans have lower IQs than Democrats.
Right wing political views in general are associated with lower IQ scores.
There are, of course, exceptions.
>>29218439
Well, they are not the electoral mass, so, statistically speaking, republicans are low-IQ retards
>>29218392
>I'd rather have our issues than your issues burger friend.
that's because you're stupid and get your perception of typical life from bleeding heart whining and human interest journalism. you're probably one of the idiots who pretends mass shootings are an epidemic because you don't understand statistics
>>29218480
That was an accident though not inherent in the ideology.
Marxism-Leninism is very left wing, it just couldn't overcome Russia's conservatism.
>>29218219
>he fell for the third worldism meme
wew lad
Marxism-Robotism is the way to glory
>>29218525
I don't want to fall for the third-worldism meme. But at the same time the only European revolution to ever succeed was the Russian Revolution. And that was only able to happen thanks to WWI annihilating much of the imperial army. Every other revolution in Europe was a massive failure. I'm starting to think accelerationism might not be a bad idea.
>>29218504
No, I just look at crime statistics and quality of life indexes.
I don't have to carry a gun around to feel safe or worry that my children might come home from school in a bodybag.
I don't have to worry that if I lose my job or fall ill that I'll be saddled with insurmountable debt for the rest of my life.
Like I said, we've got problems, but they seem trivial compared to what you lot have to deal with.
>>29218493
studies have shown republican STATES,which have lots of blacks, have lower IQ. Conservatives benefit from keeping things the way they are
>>29216565
This.
Who /fash/ here?
>>29216345
Hey comrade, go back to your involuntary labor camp. We NEETS are the aristocracy, you are the proles, now slave away wage cuck, and make someone more intelligent than you more money,
>>29216345
>Capitalism is good if you are rich
>You need to work to be rich
fuck that
>>29218630
>You need to work to be rich
Bullshit.
You just need to be born into the right family with the right connections.
>living wage
What's a living wage for one person, isn't a living wage for another.
$15 an hour would leave you borderline homeless if you had a family of 4 in SF
$15 an hour would make you fairly well off in a smal Kansas town.
The min wage is not supposed to be a living wage, ideally it's for low skill single people who are just starting out with few bills. It's "my first job" money. Not "I have 8 kids" money.
Or just get them NEET bux
>>29218605
Fascism is another cancer which puts nationality or race or some other random and unchangeable shit like that before the human race and creates unnecessary conflict
>>29218605
>>29216565
Fascism is literally the last resort of a terrified ruling class to stave of revolution and save their own wealth, and you dumb proles are still falling for it.
>>29218673
>Human race
>Unironically believing this
>mfw
>>29218587
if you had the american urban population (particularly black people who are culturally more likely to be raised by single mothers which results in huge crime rates) your crime rates would increase. you just sit there with your largely heterogeneous populations going 'muh crime rate' out of some combination of intellectual dishonesty and ignorance of what you're talking about
of course you're currently trying to take in as many poor, culturally dissimilar immigrants as you can so you'll get to see for yourself.
>worry that my children might come home from school in a bodybag.
if you think this is a serious concern then like i said you're an idiot who doesn't understand statistics. what a shock
>>29218673
Humans are happiest among their own kind, there's nothing random about it. There's no need for conflict if everyone keeps to themselves and doesn't try to influence anyone else's culture.
>>29218712
What do you mean?
How is the human race any less real than the 'white race' or the 'black race'?
>>29218673
>durrrrrrr
What did he mean by that?
>>29218731
White people are closer genetically to other white people than they are to people of any other race. There is a human species, but there is not a human race.
>>29218666
>i wanna pop out 8 kids but i also want to work a minimum wage job
>the man is keeping me down with capitalism revolution when?
>>29216565
I also agree :^)))
>>29218756
So? Germans are genetically closer to other Germans than they are to people of any other white nationality, ergo there is no white race by your logic.
>>29218781
Yeah and if you get really autistic, nothing means anything!
Fuck off.
>>29216805
>lying to people on 4chan
Kys Bernie loving faggot
>>29218219
>>29218258
>>29218307
>>29218480
>liberal intellectuals
>>29218800
No, you fuck off.
The 'white race' is just as arbitrary and artificial a concept as the human race.
>>29218831
Well our "arbitrary" concept works pretty well, so I say we keep it. Meanwhile your "human race" concept kills people and cultures.
>>29218712
>>29218723
So in the hypothetical case that we are under an alien attack blacks won't fight alongside whites and asians and some other shit?
Also, separating communities like that, what about people who belong to more than one race/nationality? What about international scientists working together and sharing their discoveries and achievements?
>>29218831
>words are just arbitrary artificial concepts
>so is logic
>so is everything
Which system will allow me to own a small house, a car, and go out drinking on weekends while working 40 hours a week?
Capitalism seems to be based on a false promise of these things. You cannot afford to live comfortably without working too much to live comfortably.
>>29218831
humans are a species that can interbreed. that's not arbitrary you retard.
also it's pretty stupid that you think arbitrary divisions of continuous differences can't have meaningful correlations but whatever
>>29218854
>So in the hypothetical case that we are under an alien attack blacks won't fight alongside whites and asians and some other shit?
lmao
>Also, separating communities like that, what about people who belong to more than one race/nationality?
They'll be outcasts. It's unfortunate, but that sort of thing shouldn't be encouraged.
>What about international scientists working together and sharing their discoveries and achievements?
We've always done that. You don't have to mix two cultures for one to share with another. See also: trade.
>>29218880
Well, the European communist states managed to do that at some point
>>29218369
Are you fucking stupid or just a digusting slimer leeching off the EU? No westerner with a spine would say that about free speech. People are getting kicked out of homes to make way for these rapefugees while the gov censors it. Do the planet a favour and end yourself and your subhuman views
>>29218852
>muh kulchur
Why are people so protective of their stupid traditions?
>>29218920
>see also: trade
So, what happens when a group in their own portion of the globe runs out of basic resources? What will they do?
>>29218946
Never understood what's the big deal with traditions. They don't define us, they are stupid and, in some cases, even outright horrifying (see: islam)
>>29218946
Without a common identity, humans have a hard time banding together to defeat a common enemy. Groups of people with little culture are easily overrun, so evolution has selected against them.
>>29218958
Conquer another country and take their resources.
>>29218718
i meant largely homogeneous populations, obviously
>>29218946
Because we are social animals.
It brings unity and stability.
>>29218831
>arbitrary concept
Kek at this fucking autistic 12 year old. So when's your next "gamers for communism" meeting?
>>29218946
Because it's part of what defines us collectively and individually.
How boring would the world be without differnt cultures?
Fuck you and your globalist, capitalist agenda to homogenise everyone and enstate your culture: the culture of greed and consumerism.
How can you spit in the face of your ancestors like that?
>>29216345
If I don't have the right to destroy an entire factory that employs thousands of people and feeds many more just because I don't get an arbitrary number someone told me I deserve to get my votes then what rights do I have?
>>29219010
So perpetual war? You really think this is the way for society to advance?
>>29219054
Animals compete over resources, and as the resources become more limited the competition becomes more violent. No system of government will change this.
>>29218991
That's an ideology. Islam is a doctrine for degenerate animals infesting Europe
>>29219036
Are you that dumb that you think that people who reject white supremacy are communists?
There is no "white race" you stupid uneducated redneck rube. White people have been fighting and killing each other for centuries.
You're obviously American so you have no concept of culture but come to the continent and tell a German, a Spaniard and an Englishman that they're the same. The EU is trying to do that and it's not working out.
Also, just FYI, I know some pretty racist communists.
>>29219039
>How can you spit in the face of your ancestors like that?
Which ancestors? Hitler? The ones who killed thousands based of who their imaginary friend was? The ones who thought it's a good thing to put men in chains to work on their plantations? Tell me, which ones?
>>29218697
mote like to keep peace and order and supress violent individuals such as liberals, berniefags, communists.
quite literally your kind has pushed so many to /fas/.
pat yourselves on tge back you violent cunts.
>>29219131
The ones that built the world you see around you.
The ones that fought tooth and nail so that you could have a chance at life.
Those ancestors.
>>29219126
You can spout all the reasoning you want, but I know for a fact that I and plenty of other white people would prefer to be around germans, spaniards, and englishmen rather than blacks, indians, and chinese.
There's no absolute cutoff for whiteness, but you can't deny that people prefer to be around similar people rather than different ones.
>>29219069
Our resources don't need to be limited. We have a lot of everything.
>>29219167
since when is Varg a robot?
>>29219195
All resources are limited.
>>29216833
D I S C A R D E D
oregano
>>29219167
No, they did that for themselves, maximum for 2 generations after. Or to please their imaginary friends. No Roman ever thought about a little cunt on /r9k
>>29219237
Enjoy your alienation and anomie, I guess!
>>29219177
Most Americans would rather be around black Americans than white Germans or Englishmen.
>>29219054
It's IS the way we advance, the way we advanced and basically, you are fucking stupid. Conflict equals progress. War forces societies to anticipate and compete. Why did the nuclear era started? Where does our rocket technology come from?
>>29219254
so says the jew
ive been around niggers and spics. i rather hang around with whites and chinks.
>>29219254
That's unfortunate if it's true, but I doubt it is.
>>29219291
>>29219285
What's wrong goyim? Don't you like diversity?
>>29219039
>How can you spit in the face of your ancestors like that?
I can never relate to this. My ancestors came to the US illegally through Canada because potatoes and accomplished nothing remarkable. The only thing I get from them is an addictive personality and glorification of alcoholism.
Fuck ancestors.
>>29219329
Ba(Z)ing
>>29219340
>The only thing I get from them is an addictive personality and glorification of alcoholism.
And being alive.
>>29218946
Because you globalists are trying to create the United States of Europe.
Brexit will happen.
The EU will fall.
Trump will make America great again.
Deal with it, jew.
>>29219370
>And being alive.
I'll let you know that I descend from a long line of men who busted a nut inside women. What have your ancestors done?
Let me see if I got this right:
Ancap/lolbertarians are correct when regarding economic choices, as free market """"""tends"""""" towards quality, but they fail miserably in the real world where they have to deal with politics as well as the economy. They can't understand that in order for a system to work, the people must want it to work, like how Healthcare works in the UK but not the US.
They don't care about living conditions, education, safety standards, well being, health or rights, just money, yes?
>>29219464
About the same thing, but at least I have the courtesy to thank them.
>>29219272
They were only used for good after the wars ended and humanity realised how stupid war is (well, they forgot pretty soon, but that's another story). Armed conflict equals only death and suffering. It only creates progress after the wars are ended and the technology created to massacre innocents is actually put to good use. Nuclear bombs vs nuclear energy. Intercontinental missiles vs space rockets
>>29219554
Wars get rid of surplus men, and death and suffering keep people from going soft. Unpleasant =/= bad.
>>29216345
Capitalism only works for the rich
>>29219472
Basically.
The final end goal of libertarianism is a new feudalism.
>>29219596
I'm poor and it works for me. You don't need much money to have a good life.
Well if they want to maintain their NEET lifestyle than they probably shouldn't support capitalism, but a lot of them strangely do, myself included.
>>29219640
English is not my first language, but is feudalism basically "a class system"?
>>29219595
The only major death and suffering today's mankind can suffer is by the hands of capitalists or fascists (including isis here, given the fact that isis is a religious fascist movement)
>death and suffering keep people from getting soft
and they need to be hardened in the face of what? if mankind just put their arbitrary differences (nationality, race, religion etc) to rest, who do they need to be hardened against?
>>29219554
>It only creates progress after the wars are ended and the technology created to massacre innocents is actually put to good use.
You are literally using a subjective definition for progress. Why.
>>29219039
>How can you spit in the face of your ancestors like that?
>muh ansesturs
Who gives a shit? They're dead.
>>29216719
Washington wrote to congress after he left the presidency specifically warning them to NOT make political parties.
>>29219710
Because making progress in the sense of making new and better ways to kill other people is not a progress which benefits the future generations. Modifying that progress to make it actually useful in advancing science does. And the sparks of progress don't only come from war. Well, have it your way, how do you define progress?
why should the many support a system that only benefits the few.
>>29216805
Democratic socialists are cancer though. Look at Europe.
>>29219776
They do it hoping that they, one day, will become the few. The 'murican dream bullshit
the issue isn't so much capitalism but the notion of competition.
people stepping over each other to get to the top,
this happens with or without capitalism.
>>29219797
And unregulated capitalism is cancer. Look at USA
>>29219703
>90% of mankind puts aside their differences
>gets soft, forgets what war is like
>gets absolutely wrecked by the 10% that didn't do this
This is basically what's happening in europe.
>>29216345
if communism is so good, then where the hell is the USSR?
>>29218946
>Why are people so protective of their stupid traditions?
>t. Schlomo Bergenstein Bilderblatt
>>29219797
>Look at Europe.
>just look at it
>i mean really, are you kidding me? Look at it guise!
>there is crime!
>some people are brown
>not like capitalist america
All b8 aside, what the hell are you even referring to when people say this?
Not hyperbole and news from /pol/ and Sargonof Akkad, I mean real tangible numbers.
>>29219838
>USA
>unregulated
top kek
>>29219850
The USSR weren't communists. They perverted marxism. This is why they failed
>>29219863
No freedom, brown immigrants, no freedom to criticize said immigrants.
>>29219850
as paradoxical as it sounds, I feel communism could only be truly achieved through a eugenics program.
>>29219838
>USA
>Capitalism
USA is corporatism, not capitalism.
>>29219863
>I mean real tangible numbers.
The millions of muslims coming into Germany for example. Women getting spit on for wearing too revealing clothes by these barbarians.
You will hang for your treacheries against your own people some day you know.
>>29219869
The regulated stuff comes from "democratic socialism". Without those, it would be even more survival fighting than it is now
>>29219877
>duuuu USSR wasnt real communism
so hows north korea going?
>>29219921
I don't get it, are you arguing for or against socialism?
>>29219916
>usa is corporatism
just capitalism lvl 2
>>29219903
>No freedom
>muh freedom mufuggas
This phrase is used my americans somethign soemthing lack of understanding.
When will americans learn that "listen to muh freedoms" is the same argument as "listen to muh feelings"? They mean nothing on a large scale and just serve to make you upset.
>brown immigrants
:^D
>people are unironically lolbertarians
And I thought communists were delusional
>>29219916
>The millions of muslims coming into Germany for example. Women getting spit on for wearing too revealing clothes by these barbarians.
Did he, or did he not say "no hyperbole"?
>>29219703
> they need to be hardened in the face of what? if mankind just put their arbitrary differences (nationality, race, religion etc) to rest, who do they need to be hardened against?
Against anything that oposses their will.
Against overpopulation, against deadly, new diseases, against lack of resources etc.
Also, it seems that you think that every human being is able to "put their arbitrary differences appart", which is fucking unrealistic. You should consider suicide if you truly believe this. If not, it is a really entertaining imagination exersice,anon. But remember that you are living in THE CURRENT YEAR, and human nature doesn't work this way.
>>29219930
I'm saying that without socialist influences murica would be a slavemaster's paradise
>>29219982
>no hyperbole
Its sadly not a hyperbole, I wish it was.
And with displacement levels at record height, more will come.
>>29219959
Let me explain then, since you don't know what freedom is.
>I can say nigger
>I can own guns and carry them to defend myself
>I don't have to pay a tax on my TV
>I can burn trash in my backyard if I want to
>I can fuck with my car however I want, and it never has to pass an emissions test
>If someone tries to break into my house, I can legally kill them
The list goes on. Sorry you never got to experience any of this.
>>29220007
>still no facts nor numbers anywhere
>just stuff he found in youtube comment sections and /pol/ shitposting
>>29219987
Well yeah, i'm being idealistic here. It's also why i think that a global-scale threat not created by humans is the only salvation for mankind
I used to be libertarian. I'm defnitley not a communist but I can't be libertarian because I'm on neetbux and support neetbux. I would vote for whoever gives me more neetbux.
>>29220041
>>still no facts nor numbers anywhere
Figures, I have to google stuff for you you dumb lazy nigger
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/08/germany-on-course-to-accept-one-million-refugees-in-2015
So yea, a million in just 2015 alone, more will come and this is only to Germany. KYS.
>>29216565
Daily reminder that Fascism is just the right wing equivalent of what SJWs advocate.
And we all know societies trend with time in that direction.
In short, Fascism helped fast-track the modern zeitgeist.
>>29220040
>I can say nigger
And? We all can. I just don't yell it on street corners to "express my freedom" like a child wanting atention.
>I can own guns and carry them to defend myself
I also enjoy not being shot at schools.
>I don't have to pay a tax on my TV
>But I also have to watch adverts constantly, and I have no control over what occurs on TV becuase it's privately ran
>I can burn trash in my backyard if I want to
Same
>I can fuck with my car however I want, and it never has to pass an emissions test
>Fuck everyone els,e my feeli- um, freedoms come first!
>If someone tries to break into my house, I can legally kill them
>the state can't execute people for trespassing (((((((DEPENDING ON THE STATE))))) bu the people can.
What a wonderful world.
>>29220105
Unbelievably cucked. You deserve everything you get.
>>29220139
Any arguments?
>>29220181
F R E E D O M
R
E
E
D
O
M
>>29220074
>figures I have to defend my argument myself
>wow, this other sure is stupid he won;t even argue for me
OK lets see, 1 million immigrants in a nation of 80 million
So, 1.25% are immigrants.
And that is why socialism has fucked the entire EU, and capitalism, like in the US is better in every-way: because 1.25% of Germany is immigrants.
And this ISN'T hyperbole to you?
>>29220139
Dont worry, the day of the rope is coming soon for these degenerates.
>>29220139
>he memed at me lads
>what the fuck do I do now?
>>29220139
>The average libertarian argument when faced with opposition
Also, roads
>>29220139
Fucking libertarians cunts. Under anarcho-libertarianism (the only one who can give MAXIMUL FREEDOM) if I fuck your 6 yo daughter, kill her and then kill you and your entire family, i get a free pass. Do you think this is how a society is supposed to behave?
>>29219924
>North Korea
>marxism
top kek. See Juche ideology and how they erased any mentions of marxism-leninism from the society
>>29220211
>because 1.25% of Germany is immigrants.
You are retarded.
>Germany already had a significant muslim population (5.5% a few years ago)
>They breed way faster
>This is only the beginning like I said
>Muslims cause a disproportionate amount of disturbance, see pic related.
Socialism also sucks for many more reasons besides immigration policies though. There are too many to list here, but you are probably a retarded Swede so it wouldn't make sense to you anyway.
>>29219764
>Because making progress in the sense of making new and better ways to kill other people is not a progress which benefits the future generations.
Why not? Kill people=/=bad
pic related
>Modifying that progress to make it actually useful in advancing science does.
Again, you are using another subjective meaning. In this case for the word "useful"
>And the sparks of progress don't only come from war.
This is true. They come from CONFLICT and war is a form of organized conflict that involves groups of individuals for different reasons.
>Well, have it your way, how do you define progress?
a movement toward a goal or to a further or higher stage.
>>29220290
>>This is only the beginning like I said
I should have added this for the cucks here who still dont get it
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6793/germany-20-million-muslims
>>29220290
[citation needed] for that picture, brah.
slapping together an infographic with no real hard evidence is pretty pointless.
well, it's not pointless i guess, because there's plenty of dumb weenies with confirmation bias out there.
>>29216345
Commies and anarchists are the most worthless, disgusting parasites on this planet. Thank God your batshit retarded worldview is almost universally discarded after college when your brain is fully matured.
>I le just read le Karl Marx in my le Sociology 101 class at my community college and I am now a le communist
KILL YOURSELF
>>29220373
>[citation needed]
>T-This can't be true! What can I do?
>Oh I know! I'll just use "Le citation needed" may may like they taught me on r3ddit xD
>>29220315
You do know that in the end of the movie (don't know about the book, sry) Ender was tricked into destroying a race and made peace with them, right?
Yes, kill people = bad because we should rise beyond our primal nature. This is why we are not in caves anymore
Useful = being used to make life better, to cure diseases, create more food, travel to other planets etc. You know, things that benefit everyone
>they come from conflict
How did Newton's law come from conflict? How about Hawkins's research? shall I go on?
>a movement toward a goal
Well that goal should not be killing innocents
>>29220407
He's right though, you can't just claim statistics without a source.
Regardless of whether or not Muslims are a blight on any society, which they are. Even Buddhists can't fucking stand Muslims.
>>29220453
>Yes, kill people = bad because we should rise beyond our primal nature. This is why we are not in caves anymore
>if you kill your enemies, they win.
>>29220464
>He's right though
Holy shit you guys are lazy. Its really not that hard to google the demographics of a country. I hate redditors like you so much.
>>29220486
And because of retards like you who get a boner when they see a gun and who jack off at videos of WW2 the society is fucked
>>29220407
>>29220492
>le everyone i don't like is from reddit may may
>>29220492
>IT'S YOUR FAULT I DIDN'T LIST MY SOURCES ON MY INFOGRAPH!!
>reddit reddit REDDIT YOU'RE FROM REDDIT REEEEE
Just put your sources on your image next time, no reason to have a chimpout my friend.
>>29220538
Moralcuck
Why the FUCK can't /pol/ just stay on goddamn /pol/
IF YOU GIVE A SHIT ABOUT POLITICS YOU ARE NOT A ROBOT AND DO NOT BELONG ON THIS FUCKING BOARD
>>29220552
to put things into perspective
when bronies got their own board they stuck to themselves,
let that sink in
bronies are more well behaved then poltards.
>>29220552
This.
Robots don't care about society or its future one way or another. The only people who do care are those with a stake in the world.
If you have one, you are not a robot.
>>29220538
>I may have had the power to stop the rapists who broke into my house and fucked my prepubescent daughters and wife until they bled, but at least I did not use violence to get my way, and I am therefore the better person.
>>29220542
>>le everyone i don't like is from reddit may may
You know as well as I do that redditors made the le citation needed may may famous.
>>29220550
Look lazy nigger, I dont care if you dont believe the picture or not (it isn't even mine kek, idiot) but if you have nothing of value to add stfu.
>>29220587
>>29220552
>you are not a robot.
the fuck does that even mean anymore?
>>29220552
>/pol/ are anti-capitalist commies
It's like you've never been there or something.
Or are you the OP and are ass inflamed that /r9k/ didn't side with your asinine communist fucktardery?
>>29216345
A free market capitalistic system is the best system ever devised of by man with a proven record of success. Why should we change that for socialism/communism? Once you give power to the government, it always expands and grows, it never shrinks or stays the same.
Socialism is just the prelude to communism and both are worse than capitalism. It doesn't even fix the problems you claim to want to fix, it just makes it state sanctioned and makes the government and the people in power have the power to control the country instead of just a business.
>>29220606
>Look lazy nigger, I dont care if you dont believe the picture or not (it isn't even mine kek, idiot) but if you have nothing of value to add stfu.
You must be underaged. If you don't have actual stats to back up your arguments, you are no better than the liberals on Facebook who share blatantly false information and mis-attribute quotes. That's not how being an intellectual works - you need hard facts grounded in the scientific method. Otherwise you're just bullshitting. And as I said I agree with you mudslimes are cancer. But you can't just assert things without proof, if you want to be truly effective and have your argument taken seriously.
>>29220647
>Government
Socalism simply means the worker means to production.
The CNT under the spanish revolution where able to form a socalist nation without a government.
>>29220665
LMAO please stop talking to me mr Intellectual, holy shit.
>>29220374
Not an argument wage slave
>>29220692
Originiel
>>29220269
Major corporations would have security forces that enforce the laws that the rich decide on. And there would be no due process or any of that. They'd just shoot you in the street. Death squads killing criminal vermin.
>>29220711
>only capitalism is allowed to have markets
Randbabbies need to gtfo
>>29216805
You shpuld change your name to Proud Failed Economics Major. You really should.
>>29220740
>Death squads killing criminal vermin.
so basically life like it is in Brazil?
>>29220705
And that's the end of the argument right there.
When you get older and have a fully developed adult mind, you'll get it. Later.
>>29218018
Anon, sharing resources for the common good isn't in human nature. If I told you to go fishing, and your family is hungry, you'd probably go. But would you let me then take your fish and distribute them for the common good? Probably not.
I won't say I know of a better solution, but capitalism's end goal is the death and collapse of western civilization. We're in China's hands now.
>>29220711
https://youtu.be/pI6a7WySFsU?list=PLw7ewOoq0Z4u9G2gn4gJ-uXLH6c_6kmFD
Oh dear that's a lot of non arguments
>>29218219
>Mfw communism will never come ANYWHERE near capitalist countries in human development
W E W L A D
>>29218416
You can't get hit by a sound. But I appreciate the fact here; capitalism doesn't hit you, but communism is like being hit with a rock.
>>29218480
This is only because they repressed and starved minorities (Ukrainians died at almost twice the amount to Jews during the second World War due to food shortages and due to reckless tactical use as suicide bombers).
>>29220790
>And that's the end of the argument right there.
Perfect! Just like my pic at >>29220407 predicted.
>>29218500
Let me tell you why this is wrong; I'm from New Jersey, and it's a majority democrat state. The problem is, the big pharmas that were once here in force are leaving, because in order for the democrat's policies to be paid for, there needed to be heavy taxes on corporations. Also, Atlantic City went bankrupt as a result of democrats raising wages too high for government employees; and, these same idiots are now asking for a bailout, which, thankfully, Christie won't give them.
>>29218664
Staying rich is where the rich have to work. You can't recklessly spend and expect to maintain your wealth (of course, if you have no kids or family to give your money to after you die, fuck that).
>>29221026
>Staying rich is where the rich have to work
Oh boo hoo, how arduous putting all those millions in an index fund with a click of a button must be!
I agree. Some of what leftists said about capitalism before they became focused only on White genocide was true. Capitalism makes people decadent and weak so they can be domesticated (see the boomers ). In the former Soviet Union sodomites are shut down and they don't invite shitskins. If you're home is on a mortgage, then Jews literally own your home.
>>29220978
I said statistically, which means by a large majority. You gave me individual cases. Also, I did not say that the democrats are right, just that overwhelming majority of republicans have a lower IQ, which have no link to your individual cases
>>29218666
Kids don't have to pay for it. Make it so that corporations have to pay for it.
>gotta post with text
>>29216345
We would literally be living like African tribesmen without it, if you don't like fucking goats and drinking piss then just shut the hell up
>>29220407
>>29220898
>using ad hominems because you cant handle the idea of needing to have some sort of grounds for your claims
Bump. Still looking for answers, especially from lolbertarian and ancap faggots.
>>29220552
Most failures can't accept that their genetics and upbringing is why they are where they are. So they come up with boogie-men to blame it all on. It's the jews, mexicans, niggers, feminists, men, whites, capitalists, socialists, and what have you. Just someone else that isn't you that you can blame all your problems on. Once they're gone their life will be so much better.
So I wouldn't say that they aren't robots, they certainly are. However they're the garbage tier robot that isn't self aware.
I'd say any self aware robot (and not a failed normie or cyborg) is a pessimistic leftist. You know you're never gonna get a good income so what does it matter if the tax is high. It doesn't matter if blacks get the benefits too because ultimately what matters is what benefits you get.
>>29218144
is this why they voted for $hillary?
Modern life is shit because of capitalism, the profit motive is the antithesis of freedom in any kind of collective sense because it removes the ability for one to do what he wants for the sake of it, you are forced to do things that you don't want to do and that you wouldn't need to do in order to make a living. Freedom in a strictly individual sense is the freedom of the autocrat. The highest manifestation of freedom that can be experienced by an individual is to live in a society founded on the principle of freedom. Only in a free society will the relations between people be genuine, will we be able to burst the chains of meaningless consumerism and meaningless work and meaningless interactions that make up our meaningless lives.
Death to the bourgeoisie, the state and to all constituted authorities. The creation of a meaningful life necessitates the destruction of all bureaucracies and all inhibitions of the human spirit.
Down with the concentration of power!
Long live a libertarian /r9k/!
>>29222362
Ancap here. What do you need to know about economics? I'll answer your questions.
>>29224861
In the long run the only viable option is ethnocentric fascism. I'm no pol fag but history and common sense show that ethnic communities existing in isolation succeed in terms of stability. A cooperative but minimalist international community made up of sovereign nations is our best bet as they respect racial boundaries but allow for international cooperation
>>29225063
stability is a meme
we have stability now and it's shit, I don't want to live in a Huxleyan "utilitarian paradise". I want liberty more than anything.
>>29225110
So whats your ideal world? Ayn Rand meets Mad Men? Definitely fun but would it really solve the great challenges of our age? I say this as a conservative of necessity
>>29224861
>it removes the ability for one to do what he wants for the sake of it, you are forced to do things that you don't want to do and that you wouldn't need to do in order to make a living
no one is forcing you to work though? you can make your own food and build your own house, you just need to purchase some land and materials for construction. or was your point that freedom is forcing others to give you their land and materials without compensation?
>>29225211
the 1936 anarchist revolution in Spain is the closest we've come to what I want
>>29225232
Yes anon, real freedom requires expropriating the expropriators. Property rights are fiction.
>>29225284
so you want the government to take property from others by force to give to you, interesting.
if you abolish property rights, how are you planning to survive after other people take your food?
>>29225256
I like you, you actually have real human ideas instead of memes. I just skimmed through the wikipedia for the revolution, sounds like ethnocentric capitalism sans the corruption. Am i right?
>>29225347
No, I want those who work in a workplace to take the workplace from others and run it themselves. There's a difference between private and personal property. There should be no private property to facilitate a limitless amount of personal property to each, so far as it's possible.
>>29225366
anarcho-syndicalism it's called, some say that it's worker-managed capitalism, but worker management meant socialism until the rise of the USSR.
>>29225408
>No, I want those who work in a workplace to take the workplace from others and run it themselves
no one is stopping you from starting your own workplace
you said property rights, not private property
just so we are clear then, you don't want people to be able to own a house? what would be the motivation to create a house rather than live in one already created? do you mean we should all sleep in hammocks? also, a lot of medical equipment requires actual buildings, the same goes for a lot of services that would seem to be bad to do without
>>29225576
If you're looking to find systematic ways to motivate people to do things they wouldn't have done otherwise then there's no freedom in the doing of it. If I do start my own workplace, it relies on customers and I lose my individual freedom there.
>>29225611
so you don't want houses and hospitals and internet and factories and farms? these all require rights to the land or people would walk in and dig up your crops or commandeer your factory.
in what system would your workplace function without trading with other people?
>>29225408
The PG TLDR of Atlas Shrugged is that we work for and with one another out of respect and ambition in equal portions. I know its a meme book but the woman was right on a good few things. The problems arise when a load of unemployable "people" flood the country. All of a sudden you're working to feed yourself, your family, and a family of incompetents.
>>29225789
There would be farms, factories, hospitals etc but they would be run collectively. There would be a workplace who would send an instantly re callable delegate to the syndicate, the syndicate would delegate to the federation etc
but if houses and hospitals and so on couldn't exist freely then I would be against them
>>29225866
>There would be farms, factories, hospitals etc but they would be run collectively.
these would not be created if you removed any motivation for creating them.
>There would be a workplace who would send an instantly re callable delegate to the syndicate, the syndicate would delegate to the federation etc
what exactly do you mean by this? again, even if there was a workshop (which there wouldn't be because no one has any reason to make it), what is stopping people from taking control and using it for their own purposes?
and if don't want any infrastructure whatsoever, what if there's a group of people who do want to own the land and take it by force? who is enforcing these rules you have provided? cops without guns or cars or roads or phones? what is your plan exactly when another nation of people invades your ideal society?
>>29216345
agreed. fuckin preach senpai
>>29226020
I keep having to explain this to you but if something is not possible without being shit then it's just shit and shouldn't exist. Thankfully history would suggest that it is possible to run things like I said. If you think you need a reason to do something outside of wanting to do that thing then you're basically asking for slavery, or at least wage-slavery which is only renting instead of owning.
>>29216805
>6'1"
>165 lbs
Not a lot of food in Minsk, huh?
I agree. National Socialism is best socialism.
>>29216345
mixed capitalism is better than any alternative atm
sometime in the future we'll have a neet paradise that will eventually be invaded by the normies, but for now we have to live with what we've got
>>29226123
Racially exclusive communities are the only communities that benefit from socialism
>>29216345
Get out commie filth.
OP, they have to know what capitalism means to agree.
>>29226192
Enjoy having big corporations exploit you, flood your country with immigrants (cheap labour), and destroy your environment.
>>29216345
Capitalism has done more to advance societal economies around the world than any other system. It has provided you with the wealth to buy a computer and shitpost right now. And now here you are, dick in hand, criticizing it. Salty about not getting a fucking job? Don't major in women's studies. Sack the fuck up, contribute something to society, or find a way to make the system work.
>>29216805
Kys commie skeleton
>>29226241
Enjoy Jamal's dick in your significant other.
>>29226241
Corporate consolidation is exacerbated by state power (regulatory capture). You'd know this if you weren't retarded.
>>29226275
I'm a National Socialist, you idiot.
>>29226091
the incentives for doing these thing are intrinsic. you must get food or you're going to die, same with water, antibiotics, shelter, etc. your philosophy is to describe this as slavery and essentially kill yourself on principle?
your society would die of starvation, or best case scenario 1-2% of your population would survive and die to infections, diseases, and childbirth.
maybe we could work together to improve the quality of life? I mean we've doubled life expectancy and the work required to survive is much lower than before. maybe several thousand generations from now we can create our own planets and and never want for anything, who knows? or we could all just give up and die so other people or lifeforms can take our place. absurd
>>29226288
Proof? Or is this just more Rothbardian rhetoric?
>>29226301
You're not going to go out and get all your food from the wilderness unless you want to, there are more efficient ways to do it. Not only is this an appeal to nature, it misses the point that property rights are not natural and are something imposed.
>>29226290
It doesn't matter to Jamal.
>>29226391
Of course it won't, he'd be killed on sight under a strong, fascist, white nationalist government.
BERNIE IS FINISHED
YOU CAN STOP SHITPOSTING NOW
IN FACT YOU SHOULDVE SHITPOSTED AGAINST HILARRY YOU OVERCONFIDENT CUNT
BERNIE TARDS WERE WAYY AHEAD OF THEMSELEVS
>>29226359
what food are you going to eat? you accuse me of an appeal to nature then claim property rights are wrong because they are unnatural? first of all, there are hundreds of thousands of species that fight over territory.
most importantly, how do you plan on creating the hospitals and medicine needed to survive a single generation?
>>29226460
>first of all, there are hundreds of thousands of species that fight over territory.
>so we should
lol
>how do you plan on creating the hospitals and medicine needed to survive a single generation?
>what food are you going to eat?
running it collectively, like I've said before, and like you've said in your last post all about "working together." Working for a boss is not my idea of working together.
>>29226476
im not saying thats why we should, im saying your claim that property is unnatural is completely false.
run what collectively? are you planning on growing crops? people will walk in and take them because they are hungry and you are going to die unless you defend your food
let alone would you ever be able to make vaccines, first of all no one has any reason to share all of that knowledge with you, nor would they have any reason to let you use the materials required, they will want to use them for their own purposes.
please explain in detail how and why people would help you when they stand better to let you die
>>29226573
Because their interest isn't different to mine, we work together and run things collectively. This is how the economy should be run and how it has been run in the past. But every thing you say seems to be a conflation of is and ought, you can't explain why I'm wrong about what should be, you're just telling me that it'd be difficult or impossible to do.
>>29226625
im telling you your society as described would die within 1 generation and that is being incredibly generous.
i can assure you their interest is different than yours, without infrastructure someone is going to see your food and take it because they will die without it and the same goes for you. this is a conflict of interest and without laws or repercussions whoever is stronger will kill the other and take the food.
if you are lucky you might be able to band together with a group of people, some might call this a tribe. well, another group of people sees all of the food and shelter your group has created and wants it for themselves. they will fight you to the death
this is logically what will happen, and it is historically what has happened for thousands of years before people decided it was better to have infrastructure and jails so accepted the idea of property rights in order to create them
>>29226749
if you can't say anything other than "hurr it wont work" I'll stop talking to you anon because this is getting really irritating and you don't seem to understand that "is" and "ought" are different things
>>29226771
im presenting logical and historical evidence of how and why it will not work. you have not presented any evidence of how and why it would nor have you refuted any of my arguments.
>>29226816
because I'm not making that claim and you're talking about something completely different which demonstrates nothing other than the fact that you haven't read about the spanish anarchist movement
>>29226836
i'm sorry for assuming you believed your society would work, then. although then I don't understand why you promote it.
you haven't read about the tens of thousands of years of tribalism. and your example is unsustainable movement that lasted all of 30 years that led directly into Franco fascism and the execution of everyone that shared your ideals?
>>29218327
>trash economy
whos country almost collapsed because of debt and had to shut down goverment services
>freedom of speech
i guess ive forgotten the time where i was thrown into jail because they tapped my phone and heard me say something arab
>>29226937
I promote it even if it doesn't work because of is and ought being different things. The Spanish anarchists vastly improved the economy when they ran it, the reason they lost was because of the lack of experience of the militias and the lack of guns, bullets, vehicles etc for the war effort.
>>29226095
>huehuehue let's make fun of him for being fat and use the classic Rand Paul babby-style ad hominem
Oh wait...he isn't fat...
>huehuehue let's make fun of him for being slim and use the classic Rand Paul babby-style ad hominem
t. ancap subhuman
>>29226994
well im sorry the world sucks and you have to do things to survive and if all you are doing is killing yourself on principle be my guest.
all the anarchists accomplished was creating a power vacuum for Franco to dismantle the republic for a self appointed and brutal dictatorship.
When the workers actually had control, output declined 30 to 40 percent below its previous depressed level. When the workers' control was largely fictitious, production sometimes increased by 20 percent - albeit 20 percent above the level of the depression.
straight from the pro-anarchist reports made to the ministry of agriculture, not that even an increase would mean anything considering their entire economy was collapsed so using it as proof of concept is incredibly facile
>>29227146
>muh moderate republic controlled by moscow would never lie!!!
>general kleber was a heroe who saved madrid!!
>>29216345
nigga I shop at the dollar tree I'm fine
>>29227146
lets say all the documents from the urban collectives and ministry of agriculture are false (even though at the time they were promoting the anarchist collectivization experiment, and their collectives lying to the ministry rather than the ministry lying to the public doesn't make much sense). you realize that's all the information regarding production, right? so where is your proof that they were more productive?
even if they were, due to the prior depressed conditions, any system which made use of idle land and workers, however inefficient, could have made great strides forward. attributing this success to the anarchist's ideology is completely absurd
>>29216345
No. Get a fucking job and do something with your life.
>>29218305
Because he is. His thesis in undergrad defended a 100% income tax.
>>29227285
I'll assume that you mean to respond to me and not yourself. First of all: where's the sources? Almost everything I've seen talks about an increase. Secondly, if it wasn't efficient then it literally would not matter because efficiency has to serve a purpose and if that purpose is shit then the efficiency is also shit.
>>29218258
>There's no left wing in America
This is a joke right? The Democrats may as well call themselves Bolsheviks.
>>29227332
[1] See generally Stanley G. Payne, The Franco Regime: 1946-1975 (Madison, WI: University of Wisconsin Press, 1987).
[2] See generally Burnett Bolloten, The Spanish Civil War: Revolution and Counterrevolution (Chapel Hill, NC: University of North Carolina Press, 1991).
[3] Ronald Fraser, Blood of Spain: An Oral History of the Spanish Civil War (NY: Pantheon Books, 1986).
[4] Bolloten, op. cit.
[5] Noam Chomsky, "Objectivity and Liberal Scholarship," in American Power and the New Mandarins (NY: Pantheon Books, 1969), esp. pp.79- 124. The praise occurs in the footnote on p.140: "This book [Bolloten's The Grand Camouflage], by a UP correspondent in Spain during the Civil War, contains a great deal of important documentary evidence bearing on the questions considered here."
and 160 other sources
im going to bed man. best of luck to promoting the failed ideology and making a new Franco who will immediately execute you
>>29227391
these are all liberal sources lol
>>29227403
[104] For economic statistics, see Thomas, op. cit., pp.962-973, and Fraser, op. cit., p.235.
[105] Milton Friedman and Anna Jacobson Schwartz, A Monetary History of the United States, 1867-1960 (Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 1963). Why would a monetary contraction cause unemployment or a loss of output? The short answer is that if the money supply declines, but money wages are downwardly rigid, this implies that given the new money supply the price of labor is set too high. The result is a "labor surplus" - in short, (involuntary) unemployment.
[106] Barry Eichengreen, Golden Fetters: The Gold Standard and the Great Depression, 1919-1939 (New York: Oxford University Press, 1992).
[107] For more on the Spanish monetary system, see William Adams Brown, Jr., The International Gold Standard Reinterpreted, 1914-1934 (NY: National Bureau of Economic Research, 1940), and Gabriel Tortella and Jordi Palafox, "Banking and Industry in Spain, 1918-1936," in Pablo Martin-Acena and James Simpson, eds., The Economic Development of Spain since 1870 (Aldershot, UK: Edward Elgar Publishing, 1995), pp.490-520.
[108] Bolloten, op. cit., p.143 states that Spain had the world's third largest gold reserve. Eichengreen, op. cit., pp.352-353, indicates that Bolloten is mistaken; in fact, in 1936 Spain had the world's fifth largest gold reserve. (A slight complication is the fact that numbers cease to be available on the gold reserves of the USSR after 1935; but unless there was a large change between 1935 and 1936, the United States, France, Britain, and the USSR would all have had larger gold reserves than Spain did.)
[109] See Tortella and Palafox, loc. cit., p.511.
[110] Paul Preston, The Spanish Civil War, 1936-1939 (London: Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1986), p.21.
[111] ibid.
[112] Kelsey, op. cit., documents the growth of militant CNT and other trade unionism during the 1931-1936 period.
keep using that buzzword instead of refuting anything, later tater
>>29227436
>Milton Friedman
lmao
where are you copying and pasting all this shit from?
>>29224923
Why are Drumpf cucks so deluded? Why do they have an open contempt for reality?
>>29216805
>Democratic Socialist
This is bait
>>29227331
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/oct/26/blog-posting/obamas-columbia-thesis-all-fiction-dreamed-blogger/
I am against capitalism. Because capitalism helps the capable people. The Chads in other words. I will not support anything that helps Chads.
Communism doesn't make sense, but as long as it hurts Chads, I'm for it.
>there has never been a true communist country
>if someone did it right it would work
>tried a shit ton of times
>never works
>man they didn't do it right we just need to try again
>>29216345
No, you dumb fuck. Capitalism is the best environment for a robot. You earn some money - you can do whatever you want with it, no one can stop you.
Socialism, go figure, requires you to be social. You need the constant approval of the mass of Stacies and Chads to keep being supported by society. If you're too weird - you get sent to gulag.
>>29229416
literally the opposite of the truth famalam
>>29229416
>he thinks socialism is about being social
You're literally retarded.
>>29229627
/pol/tards are only capable of reading the names of things
they literally think hitler was a socialist because of the name of his party
>>29229627
>he thinks it's not
>he thinks anyone has the time to piggyback a fucking autist through the environment of scarcity and corruption socialism creates
Here's how you would buy meat in any socialist country that has actually existed:
>H-hey, do you have some meat left?
>No, we're completely out. You should've lined up at dawn.
>M-my boss will report me if I show up late again. These coupons expire soon. Could you maybe reserve some minced meat for me tomorrow?
>I can't do that.
>I'll pay you, come on. *pull out devalued, shit tier currency*
>Get the fuck out of here.
Here's how Chad buys meat 2 hours later:
>Hey, Bob, what do you have for me today?
>Saved some prime rib for you, Stacy will love it. Please, no charge.
>Thanks. How did that thing with your dad work out?
>Oh, he's fine now. They took good care of him at the hospital after I called you.
>I'm glad. Take care.
>>29230043
that's literally capitalism
>>29218718
Hello Charles Murray, would you say statistics show evidence of biological differences?
>>29216432
The reason he's on this board is because of socialist movements allowing for more leisure time, higher salaries + welfare pay
>>29218605
I'm /fash/ brother
Trust a board that breeds laziness to hate such a beautiful ideology
MAKE WAAAAAAAY FOR PRINCE CENTRAL!
>both sides claim "I'm not X wing, I just thing my ideas are true, so I must be central
Let me tell you about being central lads.
You are central, when in every discussion you have, one side assumes you are the other side.
No matter who you speak to, they hate you.
Because you know, they know understand anything, and neither do you.
>>29230195
It's the reality of how society operates under socialism. You can't keep everyone in line all the time. People will actively use their social skills and the black market to improve their lot.
The difference from capitalism is that the entire pie is smaller, and you have to expose yourself to a lot more risk to obtain the goods and services common in capitalist countries.
>>29231410
>implying true centrism actually exists
>ignoring the fact not only does that map fail to take into account how to measure right vs left / that the dichotomy is fallacious but that it is based on American versions of left vs right thereby it is more right socioeconomically than you think it is
Unrestrained capitalism is a complete shitfest, but full socialism isn't exactly more feasible at this time. Realpolitik comes into play hard as soon as you stop being obsessed with rhetoric.
>>29231572
>it is based on American versions of left vs right
>hilary clinton is hard right wing according to this site.
>So you like everything the way it is?
>Absolutely not, I am a robot after all
>being a conservative nonetheless
Not George Washington would be ashamed but absolutely every great mind in politics ever. Every political idea, system or ideology started with one person and became reality through the people.
Today, everyone with ideas is ridiculed because of the insecurities of others and their lack of understanding. Everyone who doesn't participate is a problem, not the other way round.
>anything besides being a political non-Euclidean
>not shit tier
Heh
Live in an ex-communist country.
Basically if your dad was part of the communist party you had everything you wanted, else you had to give bribes
>I'm a lazy entitled fuck who doesn't want to work and get my life handed to me on a platter while giving nothing in return.
Tip to you, OP: live in the wilds for a while. Experience what nature is like and what you have to do to survive. You seem to have forgotten that being alive is a privilege to begin with. One you need to earn.
>>29231433
Well that's why socialism isn't the end goal - which is communism.
>The entire pie is smaller
Lmao. Is there a single socialist country that has produced less under socialism? No.
Why do you assume a country would produce less shit under this system?
>>29216345
Nope. All the money i get is from capitalism. All the money i get is from my 1.2M trust fund if i dident have that one i would have to work. Instead i live of sweet passive income while the masses work like dogs. Fuck the masses.
Inb4 some dingus go insane about how its unfair. Life is unfair. People are born into poor families, into families with drug problems, people are born handicapped and people are born nignogs. Such is life.
Thanks to capitalism I can enjoy my animus, vidya gayming and basically internet.
Fuck socialism/communism/leftypoltardism.
>>29218480
>Soviet Union was very socially conservative and ethnically homogeneous
And it was still a shithole
Compare to Singapore which is Multicultural and Secular but the most Capitalist country on Earth. Not a shithole.
/pol/ and commies both need to get their heads out of their asses and study basic economics.
capitalism is not some insidious evil, it can only be stamped out through ruthless repression and there is no real need to
>>29233853
Literally the most stupid cartoon ever.
Why does he give the money back?
"I want money to invest and make more money" is capitalism
>>29233773
>le ussr was a shithole meme
Literally went from feudalism to first world country in 50 years
>>29233853
How did he invest when he was poor and had no money?
Also, why was he poor? If he shared his money out then he can still have enough left to live comfortably. There are multi-billionaires. If they shared their cash then they could let hundreds of thousands of people live very comfortable lives and still have enough left over to live in luxury.
>>29232957
>Lmao. Is there a single socialist country that has produced less under socialism? No.
Less than before? No.
Less than it would under capitalism? Absolutely.
>>29234762
But they were under capitalism before you mong.
They literally went from capitalism to socialism and then their standard of living improved.
>>29229199
>be classcuck
>call anything I don't like communism
>think I've won the argument
>>29234875
It was improving to begin with, and would've improved faster, if they stayed with capitalism.
Just compare West and East Germany, the latter has to be subsidized to this day.
>>29216453
No government regulation does that. That's why government even exists.
Marxism/ communism is propagated by feminists to forcibly redistribute resources they don't deserve to them.
>>29220798
What if I gave you my fish and you gave me your wool for clothing so my family could not die in the winter? In smaller more isolated systems this is how it works. Money only comes into it because you get this opportunity to have "more" from outside. It turns the barter system that works relatively well a bit lop sided towards those that can produce the most.
>>29234875
Shhh...you don't to trigger the capitalism cucks, do you?
>>29218480
>Soviet Union
>ethnically homogenous
>socially conservative
This is the most retarded thing I've seen in a long time. You literally have no concept of the soviet union beyond some propaganda photos.
Russia is the most multicultural country in the world with over 180 different ethnic groups living in it. The soviet union also added to that. Russia has massive societal tensions between Christians and Muslims as well as Chinese migrants currently and this was no better in the union despite religion being illegal. On top of that the union was an SJW shithole with a ton of STRONK INDEPENDENT FEMINIST WHO DONT NEED NO MAN propaganda as well as WE ALL EQUAL THEY DINDU NUTHIN DEY WAS KANGS propaganda regarding minorities because the soviet doctrine demanded racial and social equality for all to keep the delusion alive and was scared shitless of people realizing racial differences between people.
Abortion and no fault divorce showed up in the soviet union long before they did in the west because liberal policy was the goal. It did a massive number on the demographics, so much so that Stalin had to illegalize all this again in 1936 because it was threatening the country with a demographic collapse.
Source: I was born in the soviet union and grew up in postsoviet Russia in the period when people were desperately trying to get rid of the SJW mess that the union left.
>>29234965
Feminism has barely anything to do with communism and Marxism, please go back to the /pol echo chamber if you want to be a fool
>>29219236
I had a sensible chuckle
>>29234940
What was improving?
Tsarist russia?
The brutal, feudal society in rural China?
Obviously things improve over time due to technological development - but there's no reason to think that it would have happened any faster under capitalism.
USSR went from completely backwards country to superpower in half a century - that is an exceptional development. You can't just say "oh, it probably would have happened anyway"
>>29233935
>Literally a 2nd world nation
>>29218416
>Welfare is only the natural consequence of democracy.
Fixed that for you. State enforced welfare is not capitalist in the slightest. It is a anchor on capitalism.
>>29235415
>literally semantics
>literally meaningless liberal buzzwords designed to keep the proles compliant
>>29235476
Exactly - one enforced by the existence of socialism.
Socialism is so clearly superior that capitalism has to make a bunch of ridiculous, self-defeating concessions to prevent revolt - and people's standards are forever on the rise
>>29235333
Tsarist Russia abolished feudalism shortly before the communist revolution. This saw a massive rise in capital and the emergence of a new entrepreneur class- the Kulaki which brought in massive economic growth. The soviet revolution actually crippled this process to begin with by taking the property of these people and murdering them in a doctrine called raskulachivanie. Economists and historians agree that a capitalist Russia would've seen much better growth than the Soviet Union because it had similar potential for industrialization, but better long term prospects.
>>29216833
>smug alt right teen ignores the fact that the percentage of marxists in academic institutions - especially in subjects dedicated to the study of politics/economics - far outweighs the percentage of marxists within the unqualified general populace
http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2015/03/the_prevalence_1.html
>>29219993
How can you have wage-slavery when you have capitalistic competition? Did you mean to write "without capitalistic influences"?
>>29235606
The vast majority of rural peasants still lived in de-facto serf conditions - the abolition was merely a concession.
Why is there any reason to believe that capitalists would "develop" Russia?
>better long term prospects
literally how
>>29219993
Socialist influences did a lot of good for the US in the industrial revolution by instituting workers compensation, child labor laws and an 8 hour work day but excessive socialism is not the same as a limited form of government regulation. Think of government as the referee in a sports game, making sure both teams play by the rules, whereas socialist systems are more of a moral police demanding a quota of minority cripple midgets be met on each team and for there to be no winners so nobody's feelings are hurt.
>>29235692
>not understanding the economic system you live in
The army of unemployed guarantees wage-slavery in a "pure" capitalist society.
Complain about your wages - and there's a man on the street willing to work for less.
This ensures workers rights are non-existent.
>>29235747
True, because they hadn't yet developed the capital/ opportunity to abandon the previous social conditions but that's more of a case of massive societal overhauls not being able to happen overnight. As time went on the peasants would've developed into proper economic entities exactly the same way feudalism developed into capitalism in many European countries. It's not exactly impossible if we know for a fact it happened all over Europe.
>>29235333
>What was improving?
They many countries that were on a capitalist course before being pulled in the sphere of a socialist superpower. There is no better case study than Germany - one land, one people split in two, vastly different economic outcomes.
Russia and China and two unique cases that perhaps never had the conditions in place for a direct transition from feudalism to capitalist democracy, but an improvement over feudalism doesn't count for all that much compared to the prosperity capitalism has brought.
In 1988 Japan's economy outgrew that of the entire USSR - wrap your head around that.
>>29233675
You'd have even more time to enjoy that under socialism. As much automation as possible so everyone can enjoy themselves, with the remaining work shared by all.
>>29232942
>>I'm a lazy entitled fuck who doesn't want to work and get my life handed to me on a platter while giving nothing in return.
You just described the bourgeoisie under capitalism. Look at kibbutzim and communes which shun people who shun their duties to see how society should work.
>>29235784
What drove up wages before socialism?
Why would profit/labor/production suddenly stop working if we remove socialism today?
>>29235823
>completely ignoring the capitalist third world
You do realise that capitalism's "success" is completely built on this?
Also, ignoring the fact that any socialist country has to contend with total warfare from every capitalist country on the globe
>>29217539
This is the only right option
>>29235898
>Also, ignoring the fact that any socialist country has to contend with total warfare from every capitalist country on the globe
Ignoring the fact that there was hands that played in the demise of every socialist country.
>>29235898
There's also a socialist third world, and go figure it's the worse third world.
The regime that led up to Somalia imploding into little fiefdoms governed by various forms of Sharia law was Soviet-backed.
>>29235891
It wouldn't stop working - but your rights would suddenly be eradicated.
You can't "remove socialism" anyway - it is the idea of it - the possibility of worker's revolt - that maintains things like freedom of protest, trade unions etc.
>>29216915
>Darwinism: economy edition
Pretty sure it was never an idea senpai
>>29235996
>Ignoring the fact that there was hands that played in the demise of every socialist country.
Not sure what you mean here?
Socialist countries have to spend a massive amount on defence and intelligence services - as the capitalist world is constantly trying to undermine and destroy them.
Also, economic warfare - socialist countries are prevented from trading with most countries, which obviously hurts any economy.
>>29236118
True. Capitalism is just another word for natural life.
>>29236087
>There's also a socialist third world, and go figure it's the worse third world.
Literally untrue.
Look at the human development index laddo.
>>29235996
Money literally can't buy economic sabotage half as effective as what socialists inflict on themselves through nationalization, price controls and trade restrictions.
>>29236212
>completely ignoring the vastly different geographic, social and existing economic situations in these countries
>choosing the best example of a capitalist economy, rather one of the many basket-case ones
>>29236100
Why would they be suddenly eradicated, when the only times that has happened was under regimes who tried to achieve true communism.
and sure you can remove socialism, just censor people who push for it, teach people to understand it and maintain a normal society(right wing). Then things like unions or worker's revolts become a non-issue because people don't want it and the ones that try to fuck shit up (commies) gets punished.
>>29235875
>You'd have even more time to enjoy that under socialism.
Yeah, I'm sure people would be voluntarily create networks, animus and vidya, just like western NEETs do.
Also, automation of such magnitude is impossible right now, not even mentioning under the never tried """""real socialism""""".
>>29236320
Literally every post-primitive society - until the dawn of socialism - had zero workers rights, with people living in abject poverty.
Slavery, serfdom etc. were all born of this - and were only abolished once an alternative economic system came to threaten the existence of capitalism.
>>29236268
list some relevant communist countries then
we'll be waiting
>>29236268
Explain this, socialicuck.
>>29236403
>automation of such magnitude is impossible right now
a literal weeb says so, I guess it must be true!
>>29236439
>Slavery, serfdom etc. were all born of this - and were only abolished once an alternative economic system came to threaten the existence of capitalism
LMAO, some western countries outlawed it before Marx was even born.
>>29236455
literally no relevance to my post but ok
When did I claim that there were any "relevant communist countries"?
>>29236499
>implying marx invented socialist ideas
He simply developed them into what they are today - you are obviously very uninformed if you think there was no left wing before Marx.
>>29236489
Explain how current available automation processes would allow to, as I quote,
>everyone can enjoy themselves, with the remaining work shared by all
>>29219236
oh god I missed that meme
THe only answer is a power push between Syndies, capitals and the state representing the people via legislative and organizations not related with syndicalism
Corporativism when
>>29233901
>>29233942
Well the idea is he uses his meager worker's wages to make investments without exploiting anybody and the communist has no moral justification for confiscating the returns on his investment.
What could the communists do to stop him without trampling basic rights? If workers get paid barely enough to live on and have no free time or money for investments then this society would be little different from a stereotypical capitalist dystopia. If they confiscate all returns on investments then he will simply spend his money at the pub like the other workers, it would make no difference to anyone else while being a negative for him so it is not justified. The people's republic could force him to invest in a business for them, but that would be going full totalitarian.
>If he shared his money out then he can still have enough left to live comfortably.
As long as he is living more comfortably than others, communists will have a problem with it.
>>29236530
>He simply developed them into what they are today - you are obviously very uninformed if you think there was no left wing before Marx.
The left-ring wing dichotomy was coined during the French Revolution, you are the one who's ill informed, dumb gommie.
>>29236537
Because many processes in our society can easily be automated.
Checkout workers can be made obsolete by self-scanning checkouts, factory workers by machines etc. etc.
Obviously there is still a lot of work, hence "with the remaining work shared by all" - but there is less work - meaning more time you can spend wanking to cartoon child porn.
>>29236268
Shut the fuck up you goddamned leftist brainwashee. Life isn't a college class where you pick a random thesis and find a new way to say "it's a complicated issue with a variety of contributing factors."
>>29236571
>Because many processes in our society can easily be automated.
I'm curious, what's your definition of socialism? What would happen to workers if the automation replaced them?
Is your perfect version of socialism the one with the state or not?
Because I have prepared a trap card, I need to know.
>mfw eastern european
>mfw western neo-commies jerk off to socialism
Wew, I swear to god, every one of you champagne socialists should be given a ride in a helicopter, Pinochet style. Every single attempt to establish your paradise on earth ended up creating horrors and misery to several generations of people.
But hey, at least some statistics looked nice. Yes, I'm convinced, let's try again :^). Parasites of the world, unite!
>>29236460
>massive military spending required to prevent american imperialism
>massive trade embargoes enforced by capitalist countries
>socialist countries are historically and naturally poorer - hence their tendency to socialism
>GDP is a capitalist measure - it measures the success of capitalist countries
>>29236570
Which was literally before Marx
Remember: Communism can't make winners, it can only make everyone losers.
>>29236652
But that wasn't about socialism-capitalism, you dumbfuck.
>>29236631
>GDP is a capitalist measure - it measures the success of capitalist countries
>>29236550
You are such an idiot. You can't invest under communism, certainly not to the extent you can become rich.
>>29236605
Ah look it's a philosophical monist.
>muh immigrants are the source of all evil
>>29236731
Are you from USA?
One or two of you may understand, what capitalism and socialism is.
The rest of you are a pain in the ass.
>>29236627
A system where society produces what it needs, and gives to the people who need it.
Automation leads to greater production, meaning more wealth - therefore benefits socialist society to automate as much as possible.
>>29236571
2 options
>workers change occupation and continue to work capitalistically as has historically happened at such occasion (hunter-gatherer to farmer. farmer to merchant/artisans. industrial era. IT-era).
or
>"everyone can enjoy themselves, with the remaining work shared by all" aka mass genocide of the non-productive with productive people surviving, who then work capitalistically.
>>29236744
Don't be racist toward Americans, please.
>>29236761
>A system where society produces what it needs, and gives to the people who need it.
So you are for a big central government, as it's required to do so. So, who appoints the government?
Or is it the anarcho-syndicalist version, where people FOR SURE WILL work and maintain the automatization because they like to work.
>>29236706
>You are such an idiot.
No, you just failed to understand my argument.
I never said you can make investments under communism.
My point is that communism needs to repress the population to an excessive extent to prevent people from making investments.
>>29236793
America isn't a race. So are you?
>>29236731
In real life, heuristics get things done. You look at the simple explanation and solve the problem.
You don't "do research" with your thumb up your butt, return a non-answer, and then request more funding because "it's a complicated issue with a variety of contributing factors."
>>29236631
>socialist countries are historically and naturally poorer - hence their tendency to socialism
again, west - east germany
and there was no tendency toward socialism, the regimes were held together by soviet tanks
if they were dumb enough to latch on to power after Gorby made it clear they're on their own, they all would've ended up like Ceausescu
>>29236817
>america
>not a race
>2016
Uhh... fucking excuse me? I'm not even going to dignify this. Try reading a fucking book.
>>29236885
Don't you meme at me, americuck
>>29236403
>Yeah, I'm sure people would be voluntarily create networks, animus and vidya, just like western NEETs do.
They would. Not NEETs (because everyone would work), but because people would be able to pursue their dreams without fear of unemployment, poverty and homelessness. Capitalists tell us the only thing that motivates people is money, but humans are generally altruistic, our tribal evolution demanded it.
And I didn't say everything would be automated, but you know as well as I do that a ton of manufacturing work among other things could be done by machines. And lots of jobs like advertising create nothing useful, though people could be put to better use building or inventing things.
>>29235875
I prefer a world where a few people are having a good time to one where everyone is a surveilled, imprisoned, censored drone so everything can be "fair."
Why is your ass so blasted that a few people have mansions? The world is better for it.
>>29236918
And who the fuck would employ the people? The state?
Or people would organize, create enterprises and decide for ever and ever not to split the work unevenly? Having management class in those enterpises would be dangerously capitalistic.
>>29236703
It literally is though.
The aim of a capitalist economy is to accumulate monetary wealth - the aim of a socialist economy is to create the conditions for communism at all costs - ridiculous to use it as a measure of "success" in that case.
>>29236797
The people appoint the government - a socialist country requires a revolution - a revolution requires popular support.
This is the meaning of "dictatorship of the proletariat"
>>29236985
>And who the fuck would employ the people? The state?
Nobody would "employ" anyone, the workers themselves would run things. It happened many times in the past (the Paris Commune for example) before capitalists and their state sperged out because they couldn't stomach socialism. Workers councils and unions would be democratically run, instantly revocable so nobody can establish management or hierarchy. Hierarchy/management is only possible because of private property.
Industries will co-operate and plan economic activity together, not any managers or bureaucracy.
>>29236810
Or create conditions where investment is unattractive or impossible - i.e high taxes for high earners, the abolition of private property (meaning means of production, not personal property) etc.
>>29237020
GDP is pretty valid for comparison, because people in capitalist states could clearly live in better conditions than those unfortunate living in gommie dictatorships.
>>29237055
>The people
Such a nice meme, if "the people" (as in a few thousands of niggers) overthrew the govt by using the military connections, would that be a will of the people?
>>29237084
Except it isn't a true indicator - because wealth is so unevenly distributed in capitalist countries.
This is my point - it doesn't matter where the wealth is going in a capitalist society - as long as it is generated - whereas in a socialist society - it goes towards the people.
>>29237072
You literally believe that the principles working in the early and pre-industrial France still apply to the modern world, it's laughable.
Tell me, how would the commune create a microchip for example.
>>29237116
But that would literally never happen, so it's a flawed example.
It's as I said - if a revolution doesn't have a lot of popular support - or the backing of a foreign power (there are no major socialist power's in the world today, so this can't happen either) - it will fail.
>>29237127
But the common folks are better off in the capitalistic state, where in the socialist state only the lumpenproletariat benefits.
This was clearly visible after the USSR fell.
>it goes towards the people
Literally meme.
>all these national cuckalist special snowflakes who think they are not at the same level of collectivist scum
...lol
>>29237127
>because wealth is so unevenly distributed in capitalist countries
it's also unevenly distributed in socialist countries
but there's less of it, and key civil liberties are lacking
>>29237163
>But that would literally never happen, so it's a flawed example.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_dictatorship
>>29237150
>the "technological progress is caused by capitalism" meme
In a socialist society - people's free time is maximised. Many people will spend this wanking to anime porn, no doubt - however many will spend it studying, doing research etc.
Also - the development of computer technology in the 20th century was driven by huge state funding - how do you think they cranked out those massive pieces of shit that no one bought for decades?
>>29237197
>only the lumpenproletariat
So the majority of the population?
Also, you are aware that living standards fell post USSR?
>>29237216
That page is about a system of governance, not a means of gaining power.
Try again
>>29236706
>You are such an idiot. You can't invest under communism, certainly not to the extent you can become rich.
Jesus christ, are you 12?
Ask yourself whether you have ever EVER read a book on economics.
>>29237150
Well it does. Look at the Zapatistas or Kibbutzim (which produce high tech as well as agricultural goods). Capitalism still operates on the same principles, now it's just a global system instead of a European one.
Most computing technology originated with public funding in the 20th century. The USSR achieved huge strides in technology, Russia was a semi-feudal shithole in 1917 but within a few decades had satellites and nukes.
>>29237213
Yes - but it is distributed more equally - and this is all done with a view to creating a communist society - where there is total equality.
>key civil liberties
meaning the ones you take for granted - whereas they had many freedoms that you never had
>>29237224
>people's free time is maximised
But you claimed everyone would work, so would jacking off considered a work? A
>Also - the development of computer technology in the 20th century was driven by huge state funding - how do you think they cranked out those massive pieces of shit that no one bought for decades?
You didn't explain how such microchip would be made in a commune. You faggots wouldn't be able to create even a pencil.
>>29237259
>So the majority of the population?
Please, read what "lumpenproletariat" means.
I'm a post-commie and you are embarrassing yourself.
>Also, you are aware that living standards fell post USSR?
Yes, because the former govt enterprises were shitty and couldn't not compete with the western ones and the common people had no combined wealth.
>>29237297
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
It's right there, should I teach you how to use wikipedia?
>>29237298
>he doesn't know what communism is
The only thing you can invest in a communist society is your time
>>29237082
well, maybe that is a bad thing too
>>29237351
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
LITERALLY A DIFFERENT PAGE
>>29216345
No. Because it forces you to be the best you can possibly be. If you cant make it, youre obviously not living up to your potential and dont deserve to live in this first world country
>>29237387
Yeah, not like capitalism hasn't always been about suppression or anything
>>29237301
Those communes simply can't produce high technology on their own. They trade freely with the outside capitalistic world.
>Russia was a semi-feudal shithole in 1917 but within a few decades had satellites and nukes.
Nice meme, but Imperial Russia was pretty great compared to the most of the world. The living conditions weren't as bad as the commie propagandists claim they were. USSR killed off the elites, top scientists and such, because they were enemies of the state. Without USSR forming, Russia would be in a better state for sure.
>>29237326
>whereas they had many freedoms that you never had
the freedom to have to prepare a bribe before every hospital visit?
yeah, i can pass on that
>>29237333
>Please, read what "lumpenproletariat" means.
>I'm a post-commie and you are embarrassing yourself.
Fucking kek lad.
You do realise that the majority of the population haven't achieved class consciousness - and aren't interested in revolutionary advancement?
>Yes, because the former govt enterprises were shitty and couldn't not compete with the western ones and the common people had no combined wealth.
Living standards fell. The "shitty" govt enterprises were abolished, replaced with capitalist ones, and the living standards fell.
>>29237375
Literally what you claimed never happened.
>>29237367
Why do you consider the ability to accumulate excess wealth some sort of inalienable right?
It does no good to society, and is both a cause and effect of exploitation and corruption.
>>29237446
Workers rights were far beyond anything ever achieved in the United States, for example.
>>29237466
I claimed that there would never be a successful socialist coup d'etat, that wasn't backed by a major foreign power. Please prove me wrong.
>>29237458
>1. The lowest stratum of the proletariat. Used originally in Marxist theory to describe those members of the proletariat, especially criminals, vagrants, and the unemployed, who lacked awareness of their collective interest as an oppressed class.
>2. An underclass.
Being not interested in the revolution isn't the only thing that makes a lumpenprole a lumpenprole.
>Living standards fell. The "shitty" govt enterprises were abolished, replaced with capitalist ones, and the living standards fell.
First - they weren't abolished, they were sold for pennies, by and for the former gommie leaders, because they were shit.
Second - the living standards fell due to reasons I described before.
>>29237518
Yeah, and the knowledge of that provided many warming thoughts while waiting in line early in the morning.
>>29237425
what is wrong with giving jobs to impoverished mexicans instead of fat americans, surely a communist would support the redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor
>>29216345
>people argue for a whole day about implementations of economic systems
>don't realize that every system is prone to the same types of failure due to the human condition
>trying to perfect an inherently flawed species
supreme kek
>>29237588
>>1. The lowest stratum of the proletariat. Used originally in Marxist theory to describe those members of the proletariat, especially criminals, vagrants, and the unemployed, who lacked awareness of their collective interest as an oppressed class.
"especially" doesn't mean "exclusively".
Do you genuinely not think that " who lacked awareness of their collective interest as an oppressed class." applies to the majority of people today?
The people who vote for reactionary governments and listen to mainstream media?
>>29237598
So people in socialist society had many freedoms - but because they didn't have "muh freedom" - the specific rights and privileges that you enjoy - they were completely oppressed.
>>29237651
>The lowest stratum of the proletariat
There.
>The people who vote for reactionary governments and listen to mainstream media?
Western governments are more and more leftists, the welfare states are getting stronger by each election, how's that reactionary? You mean the libruls aren't the fighting muh class war? They are, they are attacking people they deem of higher socio-economic class, like white males.
Also, Marx was pretty fucking wrong, as he didn't predict the emerging middle class.
>>29237713
What freedom did the worker in the USSR had that the worker in the USA didn't?
Bear in mind, having work was mandatory in the Eastern Block, you were jailed if you refuesed to be a wage drone
Why can't we just euthanize all capitalists? That would solve the problem pretty quick.
>>29237809
What problem would be solved by killing the rich?
Would you be glad to share your wealth with a Jamal?
>>29237831
Who the fuck is "Jamal"? Is that some kind of saying that the underage kiddos on /pol/ say? Go back to your alt-right shithole, cuck.
>>29237873
Jamal is the representation of an underclassman, would you share your cuck shed with him if the comissar told you to?
>>29237749
And the majority of people today fall into said lowest stratum - as it is defined by Marx.
>Western governments are more and more leftists
Completely incorrect. See the whole of Europe, the US etc.
>Also, Marx was pretty fucking wrong, as he didn't predict the emerging middle class.
You mean, proles with a higher standard of living?
Or the petit-bourgeoise, that Marx wrote about?
>mfw this thread
I expected autistic rants and people calling each other faggots
But I learned some interesting political and economic things today
>>29237923
>And the majority of people today fall into said lowest stratum - as it is defined by Marx.
That would the the middle class, the Marx didn't have enough oversight to preditc.
>See the whole of Europe, the US etc.
What, the Poland and Hungary, where the socialist-populitsts won? Provide some examples and I'll adress them.
>You mean, proles with a higher standard of living?
No, the middle class working the white-collar jobs.
>>29237795
Trade unions - flourished in the USSR while they were systematically crushed in the US
Also - soviet factories had direct small scale democracy - which doesn't happen in a capitalist society
>Bear in mind, having work was mandatory in the Eastern Block, you were jailed if you refuesed to be a wage drone
And having work is mandatory in the US, you die on the streets if you refuse to work.
>>29237951
Oh yeah? Like what, anon? Did you learn about why socialism is the one true answer to economics?
>>29237713
Yes, I really wouldn't consider being able to wageslave in one place for 40 years a worthwhile trade-off for having all my economic choices overridden by bureaucrats and living in fear of secret police my whole life.
>>29216345
Every communist country failed and the ones that still exist have bad living conditions this is the only proof you need to know communism sucks and capitalism is the best current system
>>29237990
I asked for a type of freedom worker had, not a vague paragraph about the unions. So I ask again.
>Also - soviet factories had direct small scale democracy
Some maybe, but not the most, as they were under the direct control of the state and the representatives were required to act according to the govt's will.
>And having work is mandatory in the US, you die on the streets if you refuse to work.
Plenty of niggers and white trash live off welfare in the USA without working a day in their entire life.
>>29224861
>the profit motive is the antithesis of freedom in any kind of collective sense because it removes the ability for one to do what he wants for the sake of it, you are forced to do things that you don't want to do and that you wouldn't need to do in order to make a living.
You need food to be alive. Used to be, you had to be a potato farmer on the edge of starvation unless you were born into a wealthy family.
Both these options are still available, but farming is too much work for most people. You have OTHER OPTIONS available to you now, too. Now you can do something you can stand to do in exchange for food and services you want to consume, but don't want to create.
>>29237966
>That would the the middle class, the Marx didn't have enough oversight to preditc.
My point is that the majority of people today are working people (obviously) - and the majority of working people have a diminished sense of class consciousness and lack revolutionary leadership or ideas.
>What, the Poland and Hungary, where the socialist-populitsts won? Provide some examples and I'll adress them.
Obvious bait, or extreme ignorance. Both right wing parties - you can add the neo-nazi coup in Ukraine to that as well.
>No, the middle class working the white-collar jobs.
White-collar jobs are no different from classic prole jobs - both groups of workers have their labour exploited to benefit the capitalist class.
The only difference is superficial - the difference between a factory or an office - a suit or overalls.
>>29238028
>economic choices overridden
Meanwhile the US has a choice of literally 2 (two) parties with no difference in economic ideology. This is the definition of "muh freedom" - you are oppressed in many ways - but you are used to it so don't realise.
>fear of secret police
Again, look towards capitalist countries if you want to see examples of intrusive and oppressive secret-police organisations.
>>29238089
>Some maybe, but not the most, as they were under the direct control of the state and the representatives were required to act according to the govt's will.
No - communes and committees were very widespread - and the freedom to create them was enshrined.
>Plenty of niggers and white trash live off welfare in the USA without working a day in their entire life.
In the UK - which has a kinder welfare system than the US - you have to prove that you are looking for work or have a medical condition to receieve benefits. If you "choose not to work" - you will end up on the streets.
>>29238119
>Obvious bait, or extreme ignorance. Both right wing parties - you can add the neo-nazi coup in Ukraine to that as well.
I literally live in Poland, you are the ignorant one, as you get your news from liberal sources you despise so much. We now experience the extreme surge in the social and welfare policies, higher taxes and bigger state intervention. Our ruling party, PiS, is the definition of socialist party. They are /leftypol/ dream, because they are socialist without being liberal.
>White-collar jobs are no different from classic prole jobs - both groups of workers have their labour exploited to benefit the capitalist class.
Yeah, if you spin it that way you could say the white-collar workers are no different from slaves. The difference is in the chains, as the white-collar worker is bound to the bourgeoise by the economic ties.
Get a brain moran.
>>29238153
>Meanwhile the US has a choice of literally 2 (two) parties with no difference in economic ideology. This is the definition of "muh freedom" - you are oppressed in many ways - but you are used to it so don't realise.
How is one party spending 100% of someones money an upgrade from two parties competing to spend 40% of it?
>>29238196
>No - communes and committees were very widespread - and the freedom to create them was enshrined.
What years of gommie rule are you talking about? Early '30s? Because you talk bullshit otherwise.
> you have to prove that you are looking for work or have a medical condition to receieve benefits.
Are you implying this system isn't easy to cheat? People in UK are generally fucking lazy, yet still receive benefits. To be homeless in the west you really have to not give a fuck about yourself.
>>29238205
>Our ruling party, PiS, is the definition of socialist party.
They are reactionary - not socialist. Welfare and social policies are the definition of liberal politics - making concessions to socialism - in order to preserve capitalism.
Meanwhile they are christian, racist and are forming militias for some reason.
>Yeah, if you spin it that way you could say the white-collar workers are no different from slaves. The difference is in the chains, as the white-collar worker is bound to the bourgeoise by the economic ties.
Get a brain moran.
Are you disagreeing with me here?
The differences are superficial as I said. Besides white-collar workers are the tip of the prole iceberg - the vast majority in the world are still your classic factory workers etc.
But it pays for the capitalist class in rich countries to make concessions to a portion of their workers - as it dramatically reduces the chances of revolution.
>>29238279
>What years of gommie rule are you talking about? Early '30s? Because you talk bullshit otherwise.
It's true but ok. Years of western propaganda have made you unreceptive to this idea
>Are you implying this system isn't easy to cheat?
That is an issue with implementation - not ideology.
The point is that in theory - you are punished in both societies for not working.
>>29237607
No such thing as Mexicans and Americans, only bourgeoisie and proletariat, and trade deals like NATFA benefit the working class in no country, only the rich. The rich have no qualms about crossing borders.
>>29238302
>They are reactionary - not socialist.
They halted the free trade of the huge portion of the polish land, truly capitalist move on their part.
>Welfare and social policies are the definition of liberal politics
This is exact opposite of liberal, those are collectivist ideas. Holy fuck, you will spin everything you don't like around. Some PiS politician even said they don't want the kulak class to emerge in Poland.
>forming militias for some reason
What? Eleborate on that.
>Are you disagreeing with me here?
Yes, because it's an obvious hyperbole. I can make such vague statements about anything and reduce them to absurd. You don't see the obvious absurd, because you are a commie, and it's a disease of mind.
>>29216345
Sure, it probably is cancer for human parasites like yourself.
>>29238509
>They halted the free trade of the huge portion of the polish land, truly capitalist move on their part.
They are an explicitly capitalist party - they don't have anything close to a socialist program.
>This is exact opposite of liberal, those are collectivist ideas.
Liberal politics are a series of justifications for capitalism. Rather than tackling the root cause of inequality, poverty etc. small concessions are made towards the proletariat.
For example, handing out small amounts of money to the most downtrodden in society, while millions of workers are freely exploited by capitalists.
>What? Eleborate on that.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-poland-militias-idUSKBN0MG24I20150320
Obviously Russia won't invade Poland - and if they did - these militias wouldn't stop them. They are for another purpose.
>because you are a commie, and it's a disease of mind.
what I used to think when my understanding of events came from propaganda and half-truths
>>29238354
>It's true but ok. Years of western propaganda have made you unreceptive to this idea
Nice meme, but my family actually lived in those times. You are the brainwashed one.
>That is an issue with implementation - not ideology.
So the implementation allows the system to be cheated. And it's abused as fuck. In USSR only the families of beaurocrats were able to not work.
>The point is that in theory - you are punished in both societies for not working.
In the capitalitic society you are not punished if you choose not to. You can stop working for some time if you accumulate enough wealth.
>>29238623
>So the implementation allows the system to be cheated.
kek. you do realise you are arguing against yourself here, talking about how the capitalist system is cheated and abused. and then you say that it was also cheated in the USSR - so the situation is the same then?
>tfw you've made about half the posts in this thread
Ready to give everything for socialism desu lads
>>29238610
>They are an explicitly capitalist party - they don't have anything close to a socialist program.
Nope, they are pretty socialst and every Pole will tell you that. I could show you their programme, but I doubt you will be able to read it. They entire platform is for stronger government, welfare state and higher taxes for the rich. They forbid the trade of private land, do you understand that? They also froze the trade of national land for 5 years.
>Liberal politics are a series of justifications for capitalism. Rather than tackling the root cause of inequality, poverty etc. small concessions are made towards the proletariat.
Are you fucking stupid? How's that reactionary?
>For example, handing out small amounts of money to the most downtrodden in society, while millions of workers are freely exploited by capitalists.
If the "freely exploited" class can just leech off welfare and breed, how's that exploitation. We are wastly different in our understanding of the human nature, I don't believe people are equal and that doesn't need to change.
>http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-poland-militias-idUSKBN0MG24I20150320
What a shitty link from 2014, even before the PiS won the elections. And it was about non-mandatory paid army training for 1 month if I remember correctly, not militias.
>what I used to think when my understanding of events came from propaganda and half-truths
Well, you didn't change a bit.
>>29238727
>kek. you do realise you are arguing against yourself here
Not at all, for cheating the system in USSR you went to gulag, in UK you get your welfare cut. In USSR only the privileged class was able to cheat.
The core of my argument is still valid.
>>29238828
>stronger government, welfare state and higher taxes for the rich.
None of which is explicitly, or implicitly socialist. I've explained how measures like these strengthen capitalism - and reduce the likelihood of socialism.
>What a shitty link from 2014, even before the PiS won the elections.
Yeah fair enough, here are some more recent ones:
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160604/1040781515/poland-paramilitary-force-against-russia.html
http://news.sky.com/story/1494518/poland-rearms-as-fears-of-russian-attack-grow
>Well, you didn't change a bit.
Obviously untrue - used to be that I simply read the mainstream media, took things at face value etc. and of course thought that capitalism was really good. Only when I actually developed political interest and understanding that my opinion changed.
>>29238944
>None of which is explicitly, or implicitly socialist.
They are socialist if you don't define socialism strictly as the social system where the means of production are in the hands of the public. Deal with it.
>Yeah fair enough, here are some more recent ones:
They literally means nothing, Putin is a boogeyman here and dumb Poles believe Russia will attack soon. They are not building the SS.
>Only when I actually developed political interest and understanding that my opinion changed.
Maybe you should develop an interest in economy books and history of communism outside the /leftypol/.
>>29239114
>They are socialist if you don't define socialism strictly as the social system where the means of production are in the hands of the public. Deal with it.
Which is what socialism is. You can call capitalist policies socialism - to try and pull the wool over people's eyes if you want - but at this point it's just semantics.
>They literally means nothing, Putin is a boogeyman here and dumb Poles believe Russia will attack soon. They are not building the SS.
Except it's not "dumb Poles" - it's the state. The nation is spending money on recruiting and training these militias - ask yourself why?
>Maybe you should develop an interest in economy books and history of communism outside the /leftypol/.
Is /leftypol/ even a thing? Either way I don't go there - and reading about the history of communism has enlightened me about the extent of western propaganda
>tfw your bait thread gets almost 500 replies
>>29238017
>the one true answer to economics is to destroy the economy and damage humanity with stagnation, starvation and regression.
You have reached new levels of bloodthirstiness.
>>29239227
>Which is what socialism is. You can call capitalist policies socialism - to try and pull the wool over people's eyes if you want - but at this point it's just semantics.
Those are socialist policies, semantics are on my side. You are trying to redefine the words. I never claimed Poland is socialist now.
>The nation is spending money on recruiting and training these militias - ask yourself why?
This is not about training militias. We abolished forced conscription several years ago and now state (before PiS) organize military trainings for volunteers.
>ask yourself why
Tell me then.
>and reading about the history of communism has enlightened me about the extent of western propaganda
Good, but you fell for another meme.
>>29239346
>Those are socialist policies, semantics are on my side. You are trying to redefine the words. I never claimed Poland is socialist now.
Look, socialism is when the means of production are in the hands of the public - that is the definition like it or not. As I said, you can try to change the goalposts if you like - but then it's just a meaningless argument of semantics.
>Tell me then.
The fact that they claim the russian boogeyman as an excuse means they are hiding the true purpose of these militias. A right wing party is creating militias for an unknown purpose - I am telling you that this isn't a good thing.
>you should read more about history
>in reading more about history, you have fallen for a meme
Nice one lad.
>>29239501
>Look, socialism is when the means of production are in the hands of the public - that is the definition like it or not. As I said, you can try to change the goalposts if you like - but then it's just a meaningless argument of semantics.
We were not talking about a definition of a socialist state, we were talking about a party that's socialist and implements socialist policies. Are you really that dense?
Also, I don't think you read any commie thinkers besides Marx at all, as the road to socialism (then communism) isn't necessarily laid down by revolution.
>A right wing party is creating militias for an unknown purpose - I am telling you that this isn't a good thing.
Once again - the previous govt created those camps, not PiS. The purpose is clear - polish people propagate the idea that army is manly and some youngsters like the idea of doing some military stuff and be paid for it. The militias aren't even a thing, as the training takes place for limited time and them the money flow is over. You misunderstood the situation and saw the evil fascist SS in the making.
>Nice one lad.
If you understood the history, you wouldn't be a commie. Communism is the worst thing that happened to Russia and Eastern Europe.
>>29239686
>We were not talking about a definition of a socialist state, we were talking about a party that's socialist and implements socialist policies. Are you really that dense?
>Also, I don't think you read any commie thinkers besides Marx at all, as the road to socialism (then communism) isn't necessarily laid down by revolution.
I'm a marxist-leninist - so would disagree fundamentally on that - what socialist state has been created by democracy?
A socialist party is one that has a program to institute a socialist state - which PiS doesn't have.
>You misunderstood the situation
The government is using nationalistic rhetoric and scare stories to militarise the country - no misunderstanding there.
>Communism is the worst thing that happened to Russia and Eastern Europe.
Things would have been so much better under the tsar. Also:
>blaming the faults of the USSR and not the country that waged total war against it for decades
>>29239813
>I'm a marxist-leninist - so would disagree fundamentally on that
You are disagreeing with the estabilished terms and other gommie thinkers, how leftist of you.
>A socialist party is one that has a program to institute a socialist state - which PiS doesn't have.
You can't claim something like that after you said you were a "marxist-leninist", because there might be different interpretations of what "socialism" means.
>The government is using nationalistic rhetoric and scare stories to militarise the country - no misunderstanding there.
Except it doesn't, I explained it to you already.
>Things would have been so much better under the tsar.
Yes, that's for sure, no need for irony here.
>USSR and not the country that waged total war against it for decades
I would consider waging a war on a country that enslaved and killed millions of their own men too.
inb4 meme picture form leftypol with saint Stalin
I going too sleep, this discussion was pointless as you commies are too brainwashed
>>29239979
>he actually thinks the US is in any way benevolent
>this whole conversation is rendered redundant, as he doesn't understand the most basic truths about the world
>>29237951
http://ontology.buffalo.edu/smith/courses01/rrtw/hoppe2.pdf
Capitalism is basically designed to destroy the west. Its basically what gave women the right to work.
>>29240224
Hey women working is a good thing you misogynist!
Bump, not going to let this thread die, want to see more alt right cucks get their panties in a twist.
I'll never understand the mental gymnastics you have to do to confuse voluntary trade with oppression.
>>29240941
Voluntary trade that hurts the proletariat? THAT IS OPPESSIOB YOU FUCKING AUTIST
>>29240224
That was not capitalism. Capitalism values good and smart long-term investments and punishes short term gains at the cost of long term gains (aka fucking up society). Women's "liberation" was and still is a left wing movement against normal society.
You seem to confuse things like socialism, democracy, liberalism and consumerism with capitalism. The ideal forms of which are mutually exclusive
