Do you believe in Karma, /r9k/?
>>28997702
its obviously not real, just open your eyes for five minutes.
Fuck no. I can hardly think of a dumber notion.
>>28997702
karma is a sanskirt word that just means "doing", or "action"
so when it's "your karma" it just means you're the one who did it.
this reflects the eastern idea that there is fundamentally nothing different from what happens to you and what you do.
the modern idea of karma as a kind of metaphysical merit system is stupid imho
but yes, i do.
No fucking idea.
The only person I've really ever hurt on a very major scale is myself, I even got molested as a child and the person got away with it. I've made my parents cry, but my body is the thing that takes the most damage.
I don't steal. I don't lie to people. I don't hurt people. Yet my life is a cesspool. I try every day to figure out why I deserved this
>>28997702
yes it's real but not in some ironically edgy pinked spiteful get what you deserve way...just that literally everything done and not done has it's opposite in this world
the only thing that shouldn't have an equsl is god
>>28997753
>so when it's "your karma" it just means you're the one who did it. [...] this reflects the eastern idea that there is fundamentally nothing different from what happens to you and what you do.
What does this even mean? As in, literally what does it say? It sounds like something one would say on mushrooms.
>>28997755
maybe you did those things in a past life
maybe your purpose wasn't to be anything but that and in a future life you'll be "better" off
>>28997778
consider your heartbeat, or the digestion of food in your bowels. are you really doing that or is it happening to you? it's both really
karma is this idea on a cosmic scale
>>28997765
i agree with this.
>>28997813
This explains absolutely fucking nothing.
If I am being shot, does that mean that I am also shooting myself?
>>28997813
I still don't understand. Where's the claim? Where's the statement? Where's the idea? You're just saying 'things happen'. I still don't understand the deeper distinction.
The notion of karma as a merit system implies free will is an active force driving sentient beings, like humans.
There is no such thing as choice. Only casuality. Therefore karma is false.
>>28997843
people in the east had a view of the universe that God didn't create the world, God pretends the world.
essentially being God would be extremely boring, and one day God decided to pretend he wasn't God. because being shot at would be at more interesting that just being an eternal, omniscient cloud of cosmic gas or whatever.
so yes, you would be shooting yourself, because you are God and so is the other person.
you're the actor and the audience at the same time, you're just such a good actor (as God would be, naturally) that you've been entirely absorbed into the drama of it and forgotten that it's all pretend.
>>28997867
>>28997813
I mean, are you saying that it is about the grammatical fact that a sentence can be in active voice and in passive voice?
>there are people on this board who think karma isn't an actual existing phenomenon
Lmao.
>>28997702
No. All of the people who harassed me 20 years ago and deserve an agonizing death are still alive and well.
>>28997909
So it is basically the age-old religious non-sequitur that 'we're truistically all a part of the same universe, therefore somehow the phrasing is intellectually warranted that we are all one'?
>>28997909
what the fuck
Do I even need to explain why this is wrong?
>>28997937
>implying it's even wrong
>>28997934
yes, this is why in theology the word "pantheism" is kind of like a taboo curse word.
>>28997937
here is a link to the creation story from the Upanishads.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe15/sbe15055.htm
>>28997947
Well, 'we are all (one, God, insert your own term)' has always been unwarranted for me. I mean, I understand what happens in the brains of people who decide to go along with it -- I'm just not into pointless redefinition of the word 'same'. It makes no sense for 'same'/'one' to mean 'being a part of the same greater whole'. But then, I'm not a Buddhist, I don't have their drive to redefine words.
>>28997928
somebody answer this
>>28997945
It so totally fucking is though. If I created everything, and am therefore omniscient how am I able to convince myself otherwise?
>>28998018
>it didn't happen to them when or how exactly i wanted it to, so it must not he real
this
>>28997702
A: Karma doesn't work that way
B: If it was real, most of the West would have been fucked long ago.
>>28997984
Ha. This confirms what I knew for years: that Christianity is far more materialistic- and scientific-minded than eastern bullshit. Whereas Genesis describes -- *of course* it does it naively, but just compare the two -- where it describes creation of chemical substances, and the living kingdoms, and even acknowledges human evolution a bit, that eastern crap just rambles about selves end egos and desires. You can immediately tell the higher culture.
>>28997991
that is neat that you refer to Buddhism, i was a Zen monk for a while actually and that's why i randomly know about this
the origins of Eastern thought all come out of what is now called "hinduism (which, philosophically speaking, predate Abrahamic monotheism by thousands of years"), but being a hindu basically requires being Indian or living in India. Buddhism is the theological ideas of hinduism stripped down for export and designed to be simple and universally understandable (which eight-armed Elephant gods are clearly not).
>>28997702
No, negative actions can have positive effects and viceversa, the world is much more complex than good and bad.
>>28998078
this idea that monotheistic western religion is scientifically sound when compared to eastern theology is flawed.
eg, many hindus believe that Vishnu incarnates into the world 10 times between the creation and destruction of the world.
first it's a fish, next it's an amphibian, next its a rodent, next it's a monkey. (i forget the specifics) but it's clearly an archaic idea of evolution.
>>28998078
In fact, the lone idea of there originally being water and not earth is a neat, falsifiable geological hypothesis. I feel glad to have been born into this culture rather than that incoherent Indian mess.
>>28998101
>Buddhism
>understandable
Wouldn't call it that. It's consumable, the way LSD epiphanies okay-kinda-make sense if you are too uncritical to ask 'okay, but how can this be applied or is relevant in any way' or notice that they are just terms' broadened definitions.
yes i do
>live by the sword, die by the sword
>>28997702
I have done a lot of horrible things in my life, repented for none of it, and never seen any retribution for it. Similarly, I knew a very honest hardworking person that repeatedly got fucked overright up until they died of cancer at 22. Do I believe in karma?
Lmao.
>>28998141
typically, Buddhism isn't concerned with explaining away all of your inconsequential scientific questions. it's concerned with suffering, and how to end it as a human being. which is really what we all want at the end of the day.
>>28998153
life is long shitstain
your time will come
>>28998166
Nice job avoiding the second part of my reply.
>>28998163
>it's concerned with suffering, and how to end it as a human being.
No it doesn't. It just says 'hurr you won't suffer if you make yourself not desire', which not only fails to discuss hard brain matter rather than vague 'happiness' and 'suffering', not only implies existence of free will (with a ton of harmful effects on the society), not only is a tautology (damaging people's intellectual standards by example), but actively reduces people's drive to improve their lot by saying 'just accept your suffering', which cripples social progress. While tossing yet another fallacy, 'if it makes you passive, it is your fault because you should have only let that happen in moderation', on top.
>a Buddhist trying to discuss
>>28998033
>They're seemingly happily married with kids and I'm still struggling to find work, avoid homelessness, and have been rejected by every girl I ever had interest in, missing out on plenty of social experiences and retaining my virginity
Also,
>>28998163
>inconsequential scientific questions
if I got a dollar every time a Buddhist fucker presumes what is 'consequential' and what isn't.
>>28998194
That said, I'm in a very good mood today and I'm actually looking forward to your defence mechanisms in your, hopefully, next post.
>>28998141
>>28998194
>>28998211
>it's that one Polish guy that shits up a thread every time Buddhism is mentioned
>>28998163 >>28998245
As a matter of fact, I have seen dozens of Buddhists actively side with bullies by saying the common 'understand that the bully is self-loathing too, have compassion for him' or 'just understand that the suffering happens in your mind, you need to work on your own perception of what's happening to you rather than dwell on your suffering', thus justifying their inaction towards the bully. So much about Buddhists wanting to prevent suffering.
>>28998194
right. well for the first point, yes it does concern itself with ending suffering. this is exactly what the Four noble truths are about. your argument reminds me of Slavoj Zizek's (inb4 gtfo /lit/) arguments against buddhism, which are understandable and sound but you're becoming kinda hostile about this. as i'm not being hostile, this must be scientific and empirical proof that the argument for buddha is correct and your angry suffrage ranting is wrong. (thats a joke man chill)
also
>>28998211
i'm not a Buddhist fucker, i said i was one once. but the ideas still influence me quite a bit and i'm happy to defend, or at least entertain them, on an autistic chinese cartoon site.
>>28997782
a notion that the poor and uneducated have thought for thousands of years, why religion exist.
so people who live bottom of th ebarrel lives have some hope, some dream that'll be alright in the end.
unfortunately life isn't fair, I believe in the principables of karma, but I don't believe in how it applies.
So I do my best to make sure people have the best, but I know i wont be rewarded for doing something "right" you get rewarded when reward is warranted, and even then that doesn't always happen, and thats more in a work setting than the universe alinging and giving you a how i met your mother tier life.
>>28998293
yeah that's what i mean by the Zizek comparison. he makes a note that the Japanese soldiers in WW2 said "well i'm not really doing all this murdering, it's just that the cosmic dance has so happened to place your face upon the edge of my katana. not my fault." i understand this argument and i don't necessarily disagree.
>>28998293
Yeah, your reply really didn't have anything to do with mine. I called you out for shitting up the thread. You were mentioned several times in the "that guy" thread the other day.
That should tell you a lot.
>>28998033
You are my least favorite kind of person the one that is a condescending piece of shit over a false sense of superiority. There is nothing more pathetic.
you should have made this observation yourself a lot if you believe in Karma. There is a huge gaping hole in the Karma theory because there are a constant examples of warlords and bullies and the worst kind of mafia bosses living blissfully.
Actually there seems to be an inverted Karma effect going on as well. The worse some people behave the more they gain from the universe.
Look at all the Nazi party savages that lived happily into old age while their victims experienced living hell.
If you do belief in past life karma then it's just a useless theory with no practicality, because you have no influence over your current life. Karma existing or not existing then overlap and it doesn't change the experienced reality. Your theory then is as useless as believing in nothing and once it is this worthless as it is if you believe in past life Karma you shouldn't be so invested in it really.
>>28998184
he didnt get cancer from someone else
stay mad dumbo edgemaster
>>28998295 >>28998293
Buddhism is the ultimate victim-blaming religion. 'If someone's suffering, let's blame them for being weak-willed rather than step out and tackle the real cause of it'. It's a religion for cowards. It's literally the religion for people saying 'depression is all in your head' -- in fact, I believe that Siddhartha schizotype has himself said as much, 'reality is all in your head'. How very convenient that one no longer has to research the nature/nurture causes of depression.
>>28998332
Ironically he did. Stay mad, /pol/theist.
>>28998329
>autistic tantrum
anon destroyed you with that line, just close page and pretend it never happened
>>28997947
Please explain why thst is wrong,i am very interested
>>28998356
why pantheism is wrong? or why my argument in favor of it is wrong?
>>28998352
>destroyed you
holy fuck this thread is pathetic
>>28998320
You don't run 4chan, Hiro/the mods do. I have never been banned for anything I said. The only people whose perception of my points I care about are the mods, insofar as they find them delete/banworthy -- until that happens, I'll keep solely caring about the merit of the point themselves.
>>28998395
Where did I say I run 4chan?
>>28998384
This thread is autism in its purest form. It's embarrassing.
>>28998351
>transmitted cancer
as if kids today are retarded
>>28998413
>Where did I say I run 4chan?
You said that people's reactions should 'tell me a lot'. I pointed out that this is bullshit because they're my equals in terms of being Anonymous it's their argument against mine.
>>28998437
*and it's their argument...
>>28998383
Why pantheism is wrong
>>28997843
You're shooting your inner spirituality and karma
>>28997702
People treat you how they treat them. It's not some voodoo shit.
>>28998464
all my posts have been in favor of pantheistic ideas. i'm the zen guy who has been debating the angry polish autist.
>>28998515
>the angry polish autist
It's almost as if being called angry and autistic correlates with not calling other people angry and autistic.
>>28998515
>>28998464
i said it was a curse word in theology because monotheistic people tend to throw the pantheism idea out without any consideration. even CS Lewis did that
>>28998539
Monotheism > pantheism because while the first one only makes one nonsensical assumption, the other makes two.
>>28998536
its just banter, brobot
>>28998561
I know I know. I honestly don't mind it. The last time I got literally mad on 4chan was when another anon was blamed (it was a self-improvement thread where a poster brushed off another poster who asked for help in music composition by implying that they're not 'just composing naturally' and 'not just going with the flow').
>>28998559
if we look at it in terms of theatre, monotheism would be a drama while pantheism is a comedy.
the nonsensical monotheistic assumptions are the very serious business of eternal damnation, and this is the only life you have so you better believe in baby jesus/yahweh/muhammad or you can literally go to hell. all really grim stuff.
the pantheistic assumption is that you are God pretending not to be God just for the lulz.
which do you prefer?
>>28998590
shit i play jazz and that actually makes me mad too.
>>28997702
I admit it really does feel you get bit in the ass when you do something immoral, but I really don't believe in it because there is no justice. On the other hand, if it existed as some sort of equalizing force perhaps. I don't really want to believe in it I guess, but I sort of do and can't change this.
>deserve
>>28998634
I meant the one assupmtion of 'God exists' versus the two assumptions of 'he exists and is all'.
Of your alternatives, I think I prefer the first one, because the idea of 'one life' (not inherently related to monotheism, but I'll let this slip) holds some correspondence to the biological questions of the materialistic processes of birth and death, while the latter one is just immaterial soup. Plus, 'it's your only life' implies necessity to make the best out of it, while 'you're God' reeks of self-complacency.
>>28998653
I happen to hate jazz, but I sympathize. I pointed out how awful it is when people who ask for pointers re. scales or modes or chords or whatever are dismissed with 'just practice more you lazy faggot', while it's exactly that that they want to do, they just want to have some pointers of direction.
>>28998634
>implying every single monotheistic religion has the exact same theological implications as christianity
good luck getting a group of jews to agree on what the fuck happens after you die
The trading good deeds and bad deeds karma is a modern myth.
Karma is the inertia of one's actions/feeling/thoughts
If you are angry you will continue being angry and surround yourself with anger.
If you are kind you will continue being kind and surround yourself with kindness... et cetera for all the different ways to live.
It isn't some magical Divine Retribution for all the bad things or good things you do. It is the fact that people/things don't change unless they actively pursue the change.
So I would say karma is indeed real, spending time on r9k wallowing our sadness only leads to more sadness. Can confirm.
>>28998711
i don't disagree with your arguments in favor of science and in my younger days i was once a "debate me, christians" kind of anti-theistic buddhist. (im not going to explain that and it sounds stupid to me now)
i really gotta sleep though, ily anon its been fun. next time we'll debate about jazz.
>>28998755
jews are a minority in the context of modern abrahamic religions and i dont really care about what a group of them would say to me. they laid the foundation but have little relevance to anyone who isn't a /pol/ browser.
>>28998874
The only valuable post in this windbag circle jerk fest
Absolutely not. Karma is the stupidest thing. Why was I even born if karma exists? Why was I punished despite having done nothing? I certainly never asked to be born.
>>28998910
I won't say 'see you', but you were not as awful as most people.
>>28998874
>If you are angry you will continue being angry and surround yourself with anger.
>If you are kind you will continue being kind and surround yourself with kindness [...].
Except people who extol kindness are manipulative, passive-aggressive, equivocating scum, while people who get genuinely angry usually have some tangible arguments misunderstanding or misapplying which they're mad about. I would take angry people > kind people any time of day.
>>28999000
>>28998874
In other words, I would take 'you fucking retard, did you even read [study 1] and [study 2] and [study 3], the world would be better without you, kys' rather than a 'kind' 'wow anon, you are really angry, if you began to meditate, perhaps you would leave your basement one day, peace and love'.
>>28999000
>>28999026
I really don't understand how you twisted all that nonsense. Anger can violent/impulsive or it can be rational. Kindness can be sincere or conniving. I don't mean to paint everything black and white, I was just trying to get the point across.
Beside that point, it doesn't matter what "You would take". There is no divine santa making a naughty and nice list.
The educated "You retard check [study1, 2, 3]" will continue to argue and argue until the end of time.
The normal faggot cunt that says "Wow anon, you need to take a chill pill. Just b urself" will happily go out with his friends later while you stew about his comical self-help advise in your basement.
What is in motion, stays in motion, unless acted upon by a force.
>>28999286
Your heavy-handed 'exceptions!!!!!!!!!' changes nothing. As soon as someone mentions kindness or rational discussion, I remember all the hundreds of times that people mentioning those very words have fun with their 'retard' 'autist' 'delusional' 'psychotic' 'faggot' 'dirty' 'friendless', or their 'no true' 'but I know a' 'it depends' 'what truly matters is'.
In fact, if I were to choose but two red flags in my contact with other people, it would be using those two words: 'kindness' and 'rationality'.
