Is communism a meme?It literally goes against human nature,economics and even seeks to abolish private property like the thing that you are reading this from.It also has failed everytime it has been tried and MILLIONS of people perished under it.Why do YOU support it robot?
>>28792509
They aren't robots. Just a bunch of normies who have been raiding the site.
>implying millions of people haven't perished under capitalism
>>28792561
>implying they have
when and where
>>28792509
>fell for the "human nature" meme
>doesn't know the difference between private and personal property
>thinks it has been tried before and failed
>"communism literally killed one million billion!!"
Read more theory.
"Private property" in communist lexicon means productive enterprises like farms, factories, and corporations, not personal belongings.
why did you post a pic about socialism if you wanted to talk about communism?
Communism is a meme. Socialism is a meme.
Get out and work and be a productive member of society.
>>28792595
>>doesn't know the difference between private and personal property
i dont believe commie theory
>>"communism literally killed one million billion!!"
Denying genocide doesnt make you right
>>thinks it has been tried before and failed
yeah the USSR NEVER existed
>>fell for the "human nature" meme
why doesnt it exist?
>>28792574
Loads of poor and impoverished people, man. Factory collapses in third world countries.
>>28792645
You tell 'em, Morte--- er,, anon!
>>28792625
then they should use the real lexicon
>why did you post a pic about socialism if you wanted to talk about communism?
same thing
>>28792645
All ideologies are memes.
>>28792703
Living off the government is perpetual slavery. It prevents competition which prevents progress.
>>28792722
Your life is a fucking meme.
>>28792648
>can't differentiate between authoritarian regimes and democratic socialism
The democratic socialism that existed in countries like Spain (in fact, there's still a number of communes there today) actually worked quite well before it was smashed authoritarian movements. Also, human nature is a meme because it can be overcame. It's not like we all must kill animals with our bare hands because it's human nature.
>>28792728
>socialism = living off the government
wew lad
>>28792919
>it can be overcame
when has that happened
>The democratic socialism that existed in countries like Spain
>existed
if it was so good then why didnt it defend itself
Governments should give lots of help to the needy all across the world.
But take every single damn penny of it back, with interest, if that "needy" person goes and reproduces more needy people.
>>28792509
Appeal to nature is a fallacy.
>>28793019
>Appeal to nature is a fallacy.
when did i made such fallacy
>>28793033
Right at the start of the second sentence of your post.
>>28792952
>it can be overcame
I just said how it can be overcame. Humans don't go around killing animals with their bare hands anymore. Saying something is human nature is a cop-out for defending your point with actual ideology. I understand humans enjoy competing, however it's better for us to work together than against each other; this mindset has given many European a successful free university system and single-payer health care that is cheaper than the average US health plan.
>if it was so good then why didnt it defend itself
Idk, why didn't Germany defend itself from the Nazis?
>>28793048
I dont claim that what natural is good,i claim that we have a nature that cant be altered since we had it forever
>>28792509
communism means anarchy. anarchy is not possible, because ambitious people will try to unify their state sooner or later, no matter how difficult it might be.
socialism is bad because it requires a 100% efficient and loyal bureaucracy. while some corruption is manageable at capitalistic economies, corruption is socialist dictatorships can cause financial collapse, starvations, huge embezzlements, etc...
in addition to this, what's the point of socialism really? you replace rich "capitalists" with rich "bureaucrats". what's the difference, really? that the asshole boss of your job also happens to be the one who rules the country? are socialists implying that bureaucrats are inherently more moral than capitalists?
and in the end, is socialism moral?
is it moral to not allow your citizens to open a store even though this might be their dream?
is it moral to hold millions of people hostages to a system so frail that is almost guaranteed to collapse?
even if it doesn't collapse, is it moral to force people in job positions they might hate, just because there is no demand for other positions?
is it moral to confiscate the wealth that certain people worked their asses off for years and risked to acquire (even if they are not the majority) because the state is the only entity that can own business?
the only good parts of socialism is the universal healthcare and the effort that the state spends to ensure that its' citizens can get a job, a home and be safe. however, as the years go on, no matter how hard you work you will find the empty space in your fridge getting larger and larger. without incentive to change, innovation in methods or any other entity to compete with, this system's economy will stagnate, while capitalistic societies will continue going forward. in the end, if a random socialist country fails, it is 90% the result of socialism, while if a random country with a free economy fails, good luck guessing the reason.
>>28792919
>My particular form of communism has never been tried (tm)
>>28792509
communism is a meme for sure, but it's a good meme. it's not a viable way to run a government larger than a small community of subsistence farmers.
but i say it's a good meme because, ironically, it's the most ethical way to run things. the only reason it doesn't work is because humans are greedy shits who get salty when they can't subjugate others.
communism exists to remind us of which end of the spectrum we should be working towards.
>>28792728
And living off corporate wage isn't slavery?
Competition would continue. You would work for status and fame instead of cold, hard cash.
i agree with the far right socially, but economically, i am at a huge disadvantage, and i do not have the capital, social skills or connections to become successful.
i am an autistic beta who hates working. I do work but i hate every second of it. like someone else said on here earlier in the week, I'm just one person. While I believe that the left is gross and nauseatingly liberal, I am not in a position where the right would benefit me
Yah communism is a meme. People need to own property. You know what else is a meme? Being born on a planet where all the land is owned by people who claimed it before you were born and handed it down to their offspring. As far as land goes you should relinquish all your rights to it when you die. Fuck being born on an owned planet.
>>28792509
DISTRIBUTISM FTW
>>28792648
Human nature is malleable and changes depending on circumstances and environment. If the current (capitalist) system encourages greed and competitiveness, you'd end up with greedy and overly competitive people. Different cultures, for instance, have different values and ways of thinking because of different environments which goes on to show that "human nature" isn't something inherent in all of us. Humans aren't inherently greedy or materialistic or exploitative but if they live in an environment which encourages these values they'd end up being like that.
And the USSR wasn't communist. Workers never owned the means of production, the state did. That's state capitalism.
And millions of people perished under capitalism too so your argument is invalid.
See >>28792625 about private vs personal property. No one is after your PC.
>>28793159
>it's not a viable way to run a government larger than a small community of subsistence farmers
Nope, they tried that in Portugal and Colombia and even that literally failed within two months
>it's the most ethical way to run things
If one believes in equality of outcome and radical deontological ethics, then sure it is the most ethical way to run things.
>the only reason it doesn't work is because humans are greedy shits who get salty when they can't subjugate others.
Communism is literally an autocratic repressive system. It completely disregards the ambition of those with above average skills and potential. It denies property and makes up violent and self-serving arguments against those who are succesfull.
Do you even use your brain? Or are you still a teen?
>>28793270
>i agree with the far right socially
>i am an autistic beta
why does this seem to track so frequently, i wonder?
>>28793137
Well aren't you a smart cookie. Except you're wrong on almost every single point you've made.
>>28793277
Why? They and there off spring are entiled to what they worked for. Just like you. Just because you failed to do so is too bad for you.
>>28793331
not an argumenthurr durr orginialtiejio
>>28792728
>which prevents progress.
sure bro, that's why the soviets beat your burger ass in first space flight, right?
>>28793313
Guarantees betas' survival and a chance at breeding that's why. Leftism gives power to women who are disgusted by betas and the idea of having to breed with them.
>>28793192
Money is a necessity. Without it you should fall. If you can't make money in a 1st world country you deserve to be shipped to africa.
>>28793094
no you claimed socialism is bad because it's unnatural
kill yourself kikefag
>>28793367
>By stealing nazi scientists and forcing them to work foryou and not really caring for safety protocols whatsoever or using most of your people as slaves
I am not even a Burger and your argument sounds retarded. Hell, it doesn't matter anyway, because they actually did something of value and are still doing it while Russia and its former colonies are wallowing away in corruption and self pity.
>>28793367
Pooling resources for a nationalist cause is a benefit of both communism and capitalism. They had better scientists because the best HAD to work for the government as there was no other option to make money because there was no free market is russia.
And holy shit fucking lol if that is your argument for communism in 2016.
>>28793388
Does that include theft?
Currency shouldn't be the single, most important thing in life. I understand that it is, but it really shouldn't be. We should try to get past it.
We won't but it would be good if we could.
>>28793354
>communism is anarchy
>socialism is bad
>assholes boss
>morality in government
>>28793471
maybe kill yourself and you'll wake up in a reality that is easier for you anon.
>>28792940
>Get sick, public vaccination
>get hungry, govt credit
>go to bank but you're an enemy of the govt now
> can't even wipe your ass without using the govt there
>die of predictable causes
To wrap up:
Losers and the unlucky are in favour of socialism and maybe communism
The others in favour of capitalism.
>>28792728
Nobody is living off the government in socialism. All industry is owned by the state, but the industries are managed by the workers. The state becomes more democratic as well, because in socialism the state only exist to manage the industries to one day reach a communist state.
>>28793307
>they tried that in Portugal and Colombia
on the other hand, we have israeli kibbutzim, which have been a thing for a century.
but even then they only work because they have a sense of ethnic and cultural homogeneity to rally behind
>the ambition of those with above average skills and potential
>violent and self-serving arguments against those who are succesfull
funny that you then went on to call me a teen after that little outburst of empty aspirational noise worthy of a high school valedictory speech
>>28793454
>meanwhile burgers still steal human capital from other parts of the world
yeah, your "argument" is null and void
>>28793470
I'm not arguing for socialism, I'm arguing against capitalism. because I'm voting for this >>28793287
>>28793505
It's not about being easier. It's about what would be better for humanity.
>42 year old robot
>lived my entier youth in what has been called the best socialist/communist country
>it was shit
Everyone who didn't live under a communist regime and is a communist has a strong imagination, it can't work
>>28793343
Then everyone else is entitled to it. There is no non-emotional reason why some people are born with property and others aren't.
In Socialism, you work for yourself. With capitalism, you work for your boss.
>>28793019
Appeal to nature is not a fallacy.
Slippery slope is not a fallacy.
Fag legalization has led to pedophilia legalization.
You are liberal genetic garbage. Your opinions are worthless drivel vomited from your commie professors mouth to yours like a hatched duckling.
>>28793516
>Losers and the unlucky are in favour of socialism and maybe communism
Yes.
Capitalism is Shit though. Literally slavery with the illusion of freedom and some toys to keep you distracted
>>28793561
not sure if trolling or just stupid
>>28793516
>Losers and the unlucky are in favour of socialism and maybe communism
if they're dumb enough to trust that the person cutting the pie is gonna be bias-free
>>28793528
>funny that you then went on to call me a teen after that little outburst of empty aspirational noise worthy of a high school valedictory speech
What? I could not hear you over all these Ad Hominems.
>>28793530
>steal human capital
How can one steal human capital? This is only possible if one has slaves or something like that. Also this was not what we were talking about.
>>28793631
>How can one steal human capital?
like false flagging Hungary into a revolution in 1956
>>28793307
>Communism is literally an autocratic repressive system. It completely disregards the ambition of those with above average skills and potential. It denies property and makes up violent and self-serving arguments against those who are successful.
I would just like to point out that Spain was run as an anarchist country with strong socialist roots for a long time and was quite successful until fascist pigs came it. Capitalism is by default more oppressive as the only means of ensuring property 'rights' is through violence, even if we ignore the litany of genocides perpetrated by capitalists in Africa, North America, and Asia.
You honestly think a CEO's skills are worth 300x that of a worker? Meritocracy is a myth. People do not always reward work, instead rewarding connections, being tall, not being a woman, and a whole litany of other reasons.
Why is private property a good thing? Only the absurd does not welcome questioning. When you suggest that you do not have to do anything with your property, you admit to absurdity.
>>28793554
>In Socialism, you work for yourself. With capitalism, you work for your boss.
This is exactly the opposite.
Also, why is everyone else entitled to it? I am quite rich compared to 95% of the population and that money is sure as shit not going to the shitty part of the world population. Because there is a reason that they are poor.
>Hurrr Durr they are being kept poor by evil opressive west
Of course, sure anon. Like there isn't such a thing as personal responsiblity, will power and self improvement.
>>28793490
well if you had any basic historical education (which you should as a robot), you should know that communism/marxism = stateless society = anarchy
>>28793516
>I want to make a nickel while my boss makes a dollar
>no really, capitalism is logical and just
Suck that bourgeois cock, pig. I hope it trickles down to your man boobs.
If you are not a classical liberal individualist, then you are economically illiterate or a statist fascist bootlicker
>>28793603
you don't know what an ad hominem is, anon.
>>28793581
He's right. Socialism hands over society to women who usually try to destroy it. State replacing women's dependency on men leads to....Sweden
>>28793543
More than a majority of Russians want the USSR back. Your anecdotal retarded opinion is worth nothing.
>>28793710
>Hur durr there is no other options than systems and ideas that have already been established and failed
>>28793685
All of labor, in a capitalist system, is predicated upon your boss earning more from your work than you do. Stay profitable for someone else, you swine, and the rest will try to keep all they earn. The reason that they are poor is because of the lack of generational wealth, and also the multitudinous conflicts that have been caused by the bourgeois in pursuit of capital.
There is such a thing as personal responsibility, which is so odd that you support capitalism. Surely United Fruit should be held responsible for overthrowing democratic governments? Surely the Dutch East India Company should have been demolished at a minimum, no?
I bet you believe the world is just, you naive fool.
>>28793719
no, he's not. I'm from a former soviet satellite and we're mostly immune to the SJW cancer thanks to it.
>>28793710
Economic liberty is a specious line of thinking. It is like suggesting that a baron in 1300's England was free because he was allowed to do as he wished, so everyone is free.
>>28793681
I don't even know where to start... If I were talking to you in person I would explain it all in detail. I will now only give some points:
>Spain
Just falisification of history. And I should know, because I am Dutch so I had to learn spanish history for a large part.
>Capitalism is by default more oppressive and crimes by capitalists
Like Atheism, capitalism is not an ideology nor a hive mind. One cannot commit crimes in the name of capitalism. These were just evil or dickish people.
>Ceo example
Extreme example bordering on strawmen argument.
>Why is private property a good thing
Read up on economic theory, psychology and neuro-economics.
>>28793795
>I bet you believe the world is just, you naive fool.
Nope, but I do believe people want the most pay off for the least amount of work and are quick to blame external factors for their failures instead of being shitty themselves.
Also, I think 80% of the human population is insignificant.
>>28792509
i literally left for 20 mins and this thread blew up
Our needs as beings in a universe of entropy enslave us.
Economic systems can never free more than a minority of us.
So hurry up with the god damn robots already so they can be the slaves.
>>28793821
Because of the lack of access to media and things like the internet. Once divorce is normalozed there is no stopping hyper gamy.
>>28793955
>lack of access to media and things like the internet
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
we're EU members you fucking faggot, and unlike the cucked west we'll save ourselves from the migrant hordes, all governed by the majestic Viktor Orban
>>28792509
OP is a secret commie btw
>>28793838
>Just falisification of history. And I should know, because I am Dutch so I had to learn spanish history for a large part.
Nice revisionism. Anarchist Spain was successful until the fascists came. Any attempts to claim otherwise you just prove that you are in this to embarrass yourself and not actually say anything productive.
>Like Atheism, capitalism is not an ideology nor a hive mind. One cannot commit crimes in the name of capitalism. These were just evil or dickish people.
Was it done in pursuit of capital? Ok, then it is capitalism. This is indisputable.
>Extreme example bordering on strawmen argument.
American CEOs on average make hundreds of time more than workers, without their work being actually worth hundreds of times more. Is public humiliation your fetish?
>Read up on economic theory, psychology and neuro-economics.
I have, and still see no reason why the means of production should be privately held.
>>28793927
>I am sooooooooooooo speshul you guys!
You argue like a woman.
Everyone wants the most pay off the least amount of work. Work is only a virtue if you have been hoodwinked by your boss. I hope he has a nice car at least?
ITT: Wage slaves take a break from their normal wage slave feels thread to support their capitalist masters, while calling non-wage slaves losers because they don't want to suck bourgeois cock
>>28794033
Yeah like the Swedes and Brits are doing right? HUR DUR WERE EUROFAGS IT CAN NEVER HAPPEN TO US. Literally worse than Americans with that mentality.
>>28793942
this tbqh fuck
>>28793942
You have nothing to lose but your chains, comrade.
>>28794221
who the fuck cares about cucks who let themselves be overrun by (sand)niggers?
as I said before, we Hungarians had enough time under communist rule to recognize any kind of marxism, be it economical or cultural.
>>28794169
No, I have my own company and participate in a hedge fund with the proceedings of the company I started in college and sold five years after. Why would I want to support something that advocates entitled poor people to take away the fruits of labout?
>>28792574
>Live in London
>A few homeless here and there but nothing major
>Visit San Francisco
>Half the city is homeless
>>28794298
Because you are already taking the fruits of everyone else's labor. You employ people who earn more money for you than they do for themselves. You imagine yourself as the provider when in reality you are the leech. Your 'right' to this is supported through violence.
>>28794141
>Any attempts to claim otherwise you just prove that you are in this to embarrass yourself and not actually say anything productive.
Nice projecting
>Was it done in pursuit of capital? Ok, then it is capitalism. This is indisputable.
Not reading
>American CEOs on average make hundreds of time more than workers, without their work being actually worth hundreds of times more. Is public humiliation your fetish?
Once again, not reading
>I have, and still see no reason why the means of production should be privately held.
Then you are incapable of rational thought.
>>28794346
lolwut. I worked my ass off to create my first company and had others argeed to help me in exchange for a monetary return (which was their reward). Also, I invested money I earned due to me setting up the company.
Are you delusional or something or don't you understand the basic concepts of an agent-principal relationship?
>>28792509
Communism is not socialism. And I am a socialist, because under capitalism a healthy civilization cannot be sustained unless you have government brownshirts ready to throw elites (including media elites) off fucking bridges as soon as they step out of line (whether that means promoting debauchery as we see with the corporate assault on North Carolina, or simply engineering economic collapse and siphoning off money from the public),
Though even there you have a problem, because corporations can easily grab ahold of government power. Corporations control the government...so have government look after corporations? Not going to work too well. The thing that /pol/ doesn't realize is that the elite as a whole are a problem. Really, the only long-term solution is to abolish the elite, which requires an anarchist socialism where economic power is given to White heads of households and White workers and White communities. Look into mutualism.
>>28794354
Buddy, if you do not actually want to put anything forward, that is fine, but would you kindly stop posting? You have become emotionally invested in this argument and because you cannot decathect from your shitty ideology, rendering all of your "arguments" absurd.
>communism
>capitalism
>>28794432
>>28794476
do u even distributism, bro?
>>28794476
>everything is a spook xDDDDD
>>28794396
Others agreed to help you in exchange for monetary reward because if they did not do that they would starve. 'Work or die' isn't an ideology, it is a threat. You had access to capital and information they did not, which makes all business relationships between you and the workers exploitative.
I perfectly understand it, which makes the basic iniquities of it more stark.
>>28794432
i was trolling senpai
>>28794463
>You have become emotionally invested in this argument and because you cannot decathect from your shitty ideology, rendering all of your "arguments" absurd.
>Showing this much projection
>>28794496
>implying they're not fixed ideas
>>28794523
suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure...
kill yourself faggot
>>28794562
Again, you have failed to advance any sort of postulate or evidence. Again, I am replying to you like an idiot as opposed to avoiding taking the shitty troll bait.
>>28794519
>'Work or die' isn't an ideology, it is a threat.
Lel. They can start a communitarian farm or live in Venezuela for all I care. This is the most short sighted argument I have ever seen.
Also, I you unironically believe in equality of outcome or that my achievements were due to deterministic externalities you are retarded. I got to the point were I am, simply because I was more intelligent, more strategic and more productive than the average human. Thus, get lost, you radical deontologist.
>>28794592
why would i have also those dank quotes if i wasnt a communist
>>28792509
>human nature.
There's no such thing anon.
>abolish private property
ehm, nationalize and make means of production public, how's that taking your computer away ?
>it failed everytime it has been tried
no shit, the boycott on the East Block and having to reinvent just about everything didn't make things easier.
Still :
1917 -> Russia is a devasted land where peasant starve to death
1950 -> First cosmonaut in space
>MILLIONS died
people died under countless political systems. Mao and Stalin's regimes were a joke compared to what communism could be
I'm not supporting communism, but seriously, your arguments are shit.
>>28794610
>Again, you have failed to advance any sort of postulate or evidence
>Disregarding anything said before as to support shitty deflection while not withstanding your own animalistic impulses.
Kek.
Communism: "Support as many people into becoming productive"
Capitalism: "Have a few ultra-productive ubermensch who made it on their own backs, fuck everyone else"
The ultimate aim of both is to increase productivity, the problem with socialism is that humans are competitive and selfish so everybody becomes unhappy when they are all at the same level. The problem with capitalism is that large swathes of the population are a complete dead-weight due to being born out of the elite so resorting to a life of crime.
As you can see neither ends of the spectrum work well. Capitalism only beat communism because you can easily suppress the bottom-tier of society. America used to do this through conscription, now it just throws millions of people into prison. How long will this last for?
Europe has adopted the non-retarded middle ground which is socialism. Under socialism you still have the elites, largely unsuppressed by the government so there's still a group for everyone to aspire to but the poor are still helped up into at least the lower middle class so they can contribute something and not turn to crime. If they want to go further it's up to them.
>>28794646
meanwhile in communism everyone except the state leader is a slave...
>>28794645
>other people have to substantially change their lives to make me happy
Even if they do start a communitarian farm, they have to buy it from someone whose 'legal' ownership of it is based on capitalism. You also failed to respond to the other parts of my post and it would be facile not to believe you did so because you suck at arguing.
Furthermore, you are the only one who mentioned equality of outcome as a strawman, so I will not acknowledge it.
>>28794676
What have you said in response to my arguments, other than LEL DID NOT READ and YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND?
>>28792509
They're just normies. Real robots are right wing, free market capitalists.
>>28794701
>meanwhile in communism everyone except the state leader is a slave...
communism:A stateless,classless,moneyless society where the means of production are owned by the worker
>>28794700
capitalism only won because of the monopoly money, nothing else. if the soviets had something like the petrodollar as well things would've been much more equal
>>28794700
The meme that humans are competitive and selfish is sophistry on the part of the bourgeois. Capitalism did not beat communism, it co-opted it.
>>28794748
Then real robots are dumb.
>>28794751
>being this naive
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>28794289
Hahahaha! Good luck with all the hot women with high sexual market value not realizing their desirability and cucking all of you. Never been to Hungary but last time I went to the motherland (RO) I saw Chinese everywhere.
>>28792561
stalin, hitler, pol pot, mao, etc were all left wing.
and yes hitler was left. lefties only try to pin him on the right so they can say 'hurrr but u guys had hitler! hurdurr'. nope, all those dictators were lefties.
>>28794832
>he resorts to awkard laughing when his argument gets destroyed
>>28794853
>Hitler was left-wing
kill yourself please
>>28794853
You do realize the first people went after was Communists, right? If he was so far left, why did he go after his 'base'?
>>28792685
you retard. that's because those countries are lefty-run commie shitholes and/or relying on handouts
>>28794853
anon, you're making a fool of yourself
>>28794853
>and yes hitler was left. lefties only try to pin him on the right so they can say 'hurrr but u guys had hitler! hurdurr'.
http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf
hitler was right wing,illiterate swine
Pol Pot was funded by the CIA
Stalin did nothing wrong
>>28794844
the guys here are hot as well (I'm not tho), it's not gonna happen
>>28794859
no, "comrade", I laughed at your naivety because you believed the lie that communism leads to anarchy... newsflash: IT'S NOT HAPPENING. not in the USSR, not in Cuba, nor in North Korea. and even if it did, anarchy always leads to oligarchs/warlords.
>>28792940
and? socialism is indeed living off the government. if you can't understand that, then you're retarded.
>>28794782
My Bulgarian friend who grew up in Soviet times literally said the whole thing fell apart because people were't happy with just three
brands of washing machine. And this guy loved communism
Public Service Announcement: Bringing up Hitler in a debate is the last desperate attempt of someone getting BTFO.
>>28794938
>not in the USSR, not in Cuba, nor in North Korea. and even if it did, anarchy always leads to oligarchs/warlords.
i didnt know i was talking to a psychic
>>28794954
Then your Bulgarian friend is stupid and you are stupid for parroting what he said as if you had some computer-based form of echolalia.
>>28794315
Kek. I live in SF. Nevada sent their crazies to SF and honestly they're all downtown. If you don't go there you rarely ever see them. All their social services are down there too and the cheap hotels they live in. Since a lot of them aren't even homeless.
>>28794954
Yes, but why weren't they happy ? Because they knew that in the west there were dozens and dozens of washing machine brands.
Imagine communism on a global scale. No one would give a fuck about having only one brand of soap or whatever
>>28794984
There's some truth in what anon said. Just look at the events in 1990 in Germany. east-Germans 'raided' west-German shops
Come on, you stooges for the elite. You can't be this shitty at reasoning, surely? Maybe someone else would like to give it another go, someone who has read a book in their life?
>>28794872
>>28794887
>>28794896
He's right though. Hitler believed in an equal society for all Germans. Work programmes and health campaigns are all left-wing policies
Not sure I want communism itself, but I do want socialism of the kind that the USSR had (only with more religious influence). I want a powerful state capable of crushing the normalfags.
>>28795044
kk comrade
original comment XDDD
>>28794984
>western 20 year old knows more about the USSR than a 40 year old slav
>>28794998
So they lost when they failed to conquer the West
>>28794751
>communism
>stateless
>>28795065
socialism is literally just communism-lite and you're a fucking moron for wanting it. go move to sweden and get ass-raped by sandniggers.
>tfw you will never join the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and get an arranged marriage to an athletic qt who will bear you three children as a result of your loyalty to the state and Party
>>28795190
Sweden isn't socialist, it is social-democuck.
The USSR was socialist. Communism is completely different and gets rid of the state outright. I want a state, so I don't want to go that far, I want a powerful state like that of the USSR.
>>28795046
Those were propaganda. The "S" in NSDAP was a fucking joke. And Hitler didn't believe in an equal society for all Germans, he believed in expanding the living space of the Aryans. There's no equality here, only supremacy.
> Work progamms
Never been good in history, but wasn't most of this building highways in horrible working conditions and for a miserable pay ?
> health campaigns
what ?
>>28795244
He tried to ban smoking and institute public exercise.
Communism/capitalism discussion aside, do you guys really feel it's normal that there are people who have billions of dollars/euros/pounds/whatever?
Think about Gaussian function for a little bit. By that logic, there should be around equal number of people who have the least money (reason isn't an issue, it could be because of corrupt system or lack of individual skills) as there are with most money. Majority of people would be in the middle, and should be about the same amount of money away from the top 5% and bottom 5%.
Now, if bottom 5%, globaly, has like 50$ a month, middle (the majority) has about 700$ a month, and top 5% has 150 000$ a month, how does that make sense? It is literally illogical, according to most basic statistics.
Also, I just gave random numbers that are probably far from true, but my point stands that middle class, compared to bottom class, is much more similar than compared to top class. And that is just wrong in my opinion.
>>28795135
>failed to conquer the West
Communism was never about conquering anything.
And anyways, how's that relevant ? I agreed with your statement that lack of choice when it came to products contributed to the fall of the East Block but I explained why this can't be used as an argument against Communism in general.
>>28795270
Source ?
I'm guenuinly curious about this, not trying to discredit you or anything
>>28795315
google "nazis and smoking"
>>28795296
He's right about that though. The USSR fully understood the need to destroy the Western world with military force. Why do you think they did pic related? The only reason they didn't was that they didn't like the idea of being vaporized by nuclear weapons.
>>28795296
if they conquered the west then no one would have known that there were more than three brands of washing machine and everyone would remain happy as you said
0RIGlNAL
>>28793399
he claimed socialism doesn't work. That's no moral statement whatsoever.
>>28795294
it is normal. the skilled live comfortably, and a few even luxuriously, while the lazy unskilled niggers are at the bottom whining about $15 per hour. that's how things naturally go.
>>28795438
He literally said:
>It literally goes against human nature
>>28795349
Will do.
But still, how can you consider that a man whose ideology was all about reviving the old "Germania" myth (make Germany great again eh), conquering land and executing communist was a socialist ?
Because he thought smoking was bad ?
I still can't understand how you can see Hitler as anything but a totalitarian right-wing, conservative dictator who I'm ready to conceed might have had one or two policies for public health
>>28793578
neoliberalism=/=capitalism
>>28795386
>42,500 tanks
If it wasn't for nukes 100% Western Europe would have been conquered. Literally all NATO plans called for some sort of desperate defense somewhere near the Rhine hoping to nuke away the millions of soldiers pouring in.
>>28795439
I don't think you understand. I'm not saying there shouldn't be poor people, I'm saying it's illogical that there are people who literally have billions. Not hunders of thousands, fucking billions. If you argue that the only variable crucial to wealth is individual skill/intellect/whatever, those people wouldn't even be human, they would be equivalent of gods.
Also, how is the system not flawed when there are athletes and entertainers who are literally tens or hundreds of times wealthier than some successful scientists?
>>28795402
>>28795386
The whole idea was that change is supposed to be made by the working class itself. The Warsaw pact was nothing but a reaction to the NATO pact. If your neighbor is building an armored fence, why wouldn't you do the same and while you're at it make it even bigger and more dangerous or whatever ?
There's a reason both blocks realized the situation was completly stupid in the 1960s and actually started getting rid of those weapons and talking a bit more openly to each other.
>>28795502
that's not point,
see >>28795537
No side would have been retarded to even start an open war. There's a reason we talk about an "escalation" etc.. Nobody seriously though about sending land troops to conquer the other side. Both side were just scared.
>>28795294
It's not tied to to their real value. Yes it's silly.
>>28795463
Sure, that's a faulty argument. But it's not a moral judgement.
>>28795537
>>28795611
Explain Seven Days to the Rhine then.
>>28795677
>The scenario for the war was NATO launching a nuclear attack on the Vistula river valley in a first-strike scenario
They were scared as shit I told you.
Those were all "If they XXX then we XXX++" plans and scenarios.
>>28795466
>I still can't understand how you can see Hitler as anything but a totalitarian right-wing, conservative dictator who I'm ready to conceed might have had one or two policies for public health
I'm thinking about it now and I've come up with an interesting explanation. He was right-wing because the right is about survival of the fittest and Hitler was all about survival of the superior Aryan race. However this is where it gets paradoxical; In order to keep the Aryan race superior he had to get all of his citizens up to scratch. that meant gassing the non-Aryans and welfare programmes for the Aryans. So among his own race he turned out to be a socialist. Therefore globally and literally he was right-wing, but locally within Germany he was pseudo-left wing caused by the fact that Germany was overwhelmingly white at the time thus making it look like he intended to help the entire population.
>>28795492
Maybe when robots happen. Still doubt it though.
>>28795611
>>28795537
They only talked because there was an ICBM within 30 minutes of their assholes
>>28795718
Of course. Neither side wanted to be the aggressor in the conflict, but the idea was "if it happens, we will take full advantage of the situation and finally crush the West."
If the USSR was just interested in defense, then it had no need for such a stunning advantage in armaments. I'd have to go find the notes, but a friend and I calculated, based largely on inflation and world economic growth, that if the USSR existed today, it would spend somewhere around 1 trillion USD on its military.
>>28795639
Yes, and that's what makes me say that capitalism, as it is today, is flawed. I'm not one to argue that socialism or communism is a better way to go, I'm just pointing out flaws in the system we all live in at the moment.
>>28795730
That's an interesting point of view. But I'd like to point this out : even if you were white, this didn't guarantee you'd suceed in the Nationalsozialist Society. You had to be a party member, share all the expansionist blah-blah and so on..
Now, if you were to openly criticize the regime you'd most likely end up in a camp or dead.
A "good" German was a person who'd been in the Hitlerjugend, was ready to fight for his race, build up what once made Germany great. This is pretty much a copy paste from Italian fascism.
Also family values, the role of the father, women raised to breed "warriors" etc.. this conservatism at it's best.
I'm just arguing with you for the sake of it now. Even though I think the whole society was as right-wing and conservative as you can possibly get, I'll read more into this period of history because I think you made and interesting point.
>>28792509
Fucking retards like you always assume leftism systematically equals communism
That's like saying capitalism systematically means sweatshop level of wage-slavery like we see in China and Pakistan
What we really need is to stop with the wall street nonsense and rebuild the market based the responsible production of necessary goods in a way that lets workers take pride in their labor and enjoy decent living conditions by cutting on wasteful and dishonest corporate practices.
I mean, the way it is, right now. Work is a zero-sum game with a gorillion loser for every lucky winner. This can't keep going any longer especially since more and more people are constantly getting redpilled on that matter.
>>28795788
But all that spending, all this craze about a possible World War III only reached its peak in 1963 and went downwards from then on. I'm ready to admit that in the 1950s the UdSSR and its satellite state could've looked like an expansionist evil block. We're lucky that History proved this wasn't the case.
Still, we've kinda left my point : Communism, even the crooked, bastardized version of the UdSSR isn't about conquering the world. The 'World Revolution' can only come from the people.
I'm
>>28796040
>>28795943
>>28795611
>>28795537
and I'm out, was fun arguing with you anons
>>28795943
>I think you made and interesting point.
Thanks
>>28792509
anarcho-capitalist masterrace reporting in
>>28795294
>>28795529
I was kinda hoping I'd get some more thoughts about what I said up in those posts. For me it's an interesting phenomena and I'd like to see how both leftists and rightists view it.
>>28794700
Europe is not true socialism, it's welfare capitalism. The word socialism was stolen by capitalist to refer to Europe to silence the left opposition.
>>28796319
>no true scotsman
original
>>28796407
>he doesnt get the no true scotsman argument fallacy
>>28796453
>he calls any argument that he can't disprove "a fallacy"
>>28796407
It's not a no true scotsman, it just isn't socialism. Read up more on what socialism is. Europe is not socialism at all. There is still capitalism, privately owned businesses, the workers don't own the means of production in any way, and so forth.
>>28796469
>argument
top lel
your "argument" literally was: >no true scotsman
this doesn't apply. The EU countries are at their core capitalist. They just have a few socialist elements.
