Is /r9k/ inherently an anarchist board?
>>28551971
>using the wrong flag
Collectivists can't be anarchists
No but why the f**k do you want to know that?
>>28551978
Ayn Rand thread?
>>28551971
Only if you want to perpetuate the 'le edgy teen who fell out with is parents and his boss and is upset but thinks he is depressed' meme.
Anarchy is retarded. Creates an aggressive alpha environment that is antithetical to the robot utopia.
>>28552019
Thanks based Ayn Rand
>>28552019
Ayn Rand can suck my tiny penis.
>>28552866
but look at how happy u could be if u were ayn rand, anon
>>28551971
Ists and Isms are cancer. Remove ideology, act situationally on instinct and opinion.
Tradition is the only truth.
>>28551978
>I'm totally an anarchist
>bosses are fine though, I just don't like the government as it exists now
kill yourself
I am interested in these topics.
From what I can tell the problems people have with the free market is monopolies, but monopolies eventually get broken up via the market, it can just take a lot of time.
>>28553003
Heh, you sure are epic... kid.
>>28553003
The market is bad because private property is inherently subjugative. That's why ancraps aren't anarchist, they believe in bosses.
>>28552969
>implying there isn't a difference between professional hierarchy in a company and the coercion of the government
>mfw
>>28553022
Subjugation is the law of nature. Might makes right.
>>28553022
In an anarcho/socialist society anyone can take anyone's shit?
>>28553023
there is literally no difference, in both cases you're doing what somebody says because you have to or they'll have an autistic fit that causes you harm
anarchists are against government, anything that places one person under the constituted control of another dehumanises them
>>28553033
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L397TWLwrUU
>>28553054
no, the means to produce are held in common, so that everybody has control over their own labour
Only if all work is handled by robots and I am given free stuff.
>>28553067
Workers control the means of production basically?
>>28553080
yeah that's it
orig
>>28553067
You can meme about denying the law of nature all you want, but the fact of the matter is a non-subjugating society would be easily dominated by a subjugating one due to the superior organization of the latter. Saying you refuse to subjugate people is effectively surrendering and accepting your position at the bottom.
>>28553091
So you're ironically a Marxist but call yourself an Anarchist. Even though Anarchy can be capitalistic if people barter and claim things as their property.
Obviously Anarchy couldn't last in today's world, people are too violent and power centric. What type of people do you think could inhabit an anarchist society?
>>28553105
just because it's hard to do doesn't mean you should give up anon
>>28553111
*unironically marxist
unironically original comment
>>28553111
>What type of people do you think could inhabit an anarchist society?
Plants.
Oh wait vines strangle other plants and trees shade out the competition. Rocks maybe.
>>28553127
It's not even something I want to do, though. Anarchism assumes everyone is equal, which isn't true.
>>28553134
We could brainwash people from an early age to get along...oh right we already do that.
>>28553111
I'm not a Marxist, I'm an anarchist. I disagree with Marx' method. It can't be capitalistic because there are bosses in capitalism. Read: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/errico-malatesta-anarchy. We change society in a social revolution.
>>28551971
>>28551978
>edgy teenagers: the political ideology
Seems accurate, OP.
>>28553156
so this library is basically the summation of your world view and there is no reason to talk to you anymore?
>>28553153
Equal at what? A bootmaker is better at making boots, a cook is better at cooking, but nobody has an inherent value greater than another person that gives them the right to govern over them.
>>28553170
No, I sent you a pamphlet by Malatesta that can explain better than I can. There's tons of shit in there I disagree with.
>>28553176
Intelligence ya dingus. In anarchism everyone is partially in charge, even the dumb people. Having only the smart people in charge means a more effective society. I'm not saying gas the genetically inferior, I'm saying people should do what they're suited to do. Smart people are suited to leading, dumb people are suited to doing.
>>28553055
Except people voluntarily subject themselves to one in exchange for monetary gain. There's literally nothing wrong with that, imho. That kind of hierarchy is natural to mankind, largely harmless and often mutually beneficial, but I do not believe that the kind of hierarchy government imposes is valid.
>>28553200
How do you get a smart person in power, and then when they die how do you prevent the obligatory ethnic cleanising and horrible war? And when you say a better person should govern in their interests, you're claiming that their own interests are greater than their own interests. It's best if people are right all the time, but institutions of power make no difference to whether somebody is right or wrong because they exist seperately and attempts to justify them can only be made for the institutions in and of themselves.
>>28553235
>but I do not believe that the kind of hierarchy government imposes is valid.
It's completely valid in that it can enforce its own validity.
>>28553200
In an anarchy there would be no charge, or use of force, just volunteering and incentives and choices I guess.
Management in a company isn't the same as a dictator forcing you to do slave labor, you can always stop what you're doing and get fired.
>>28553235
there's no such thing as voluntarily subjecting yourself to another person because the act of subjection always takes away a person's autonomy
>>28553250
>In an anarchy there would be no charge, or use of force, just volunteering and incentives and choices I guess.
Which its why an anarchist society would be immediately wrecked and absorbed by the nearest nation-state.
>>28553277
Because nation states exist to expand their control.
human history 101, that's why we have constitution in the USA, to protect the individual from big brother and little brother.
>>28553256
>there's no such thing as voluntarily subjecting yourself to another person because the act of subjection always takes away a person's autonomy
Contrary to what your crustpunk friends say, getting a job doesn't take your soul.
>>28551978
Daily reminder that "free market" literally cannot exist without government control and federal reserve is the only reason american economy has not yet collapsed. Plus, ancap is an oxymoron since anarchism is about abolishing all authority and capitalism is about authority through ownership.
>>28553294
>Because nation states exist to expand their control.
Right, and they're really good at it. Anarchist societies not so much, which is why they don't tend to stick around.
>>28553256
Even if one uses their autonomy to make such a decision in the first place?
>being this retarded
>>28553296
America is not a free market society is all your'e proving.
There will be ngos handing security probably for the most part in a true capitalistic society.
>>28553277
a true revolutionary is somebody who keeps their ideal of what's right because they're convinced of it, not because it's easy
>>28553295
>>28553305
what doesn't it take from you? again the only voluntary decision for it can be made before the actual subjection has taken place, after that you've lost your autonomy
>>28553303
We have state to protect ourselves from other states.
Eventually we'll have another existential threat to humanity like the cuban missile crisis and human life will end as we know it.
It would have to be a voluntarily cessation of the use of violence on the part of everyone.
>>28551971
although i like the ideals of anarchy in practice it just couldnt work in todays society.
>>28553315
>their ideal of what's right
This is a meaningless phrase. Life is about getting shit done, what you think about is unimportant unless you're trying to sell books.
>what doesn't it take from you?
Pretty much everything. In what meaningful sense do I lose my autonomy by getting a job? Boss says something I don't like, I say "fuck you" and leave. Name one thing I lose the ability to do by having a job.
>>28553374
you go to work, losing control over your work
you've completely lost autonomy over the whole thing you're doing
ignoring that if you've got no ideals you'vre got nothing to get done
>>28553395
>choosing to do something for someone else is losing my autonomy
No.
>>28553409
choosing to be subjected to somebody else, losing your autonomy, is losing your autonomy
giving somebody a gift and being their slave are different things
>>28553345
Now you know why the state needs to control education. So they can turn us into crippled slaves that worship them.
Charter schools are the answer to that. Schools need to be less about teaching people about slavery and more about being economically viable. But that will never happen because all the teachers and faculty need your tax money to live their cozy child molesting lives.
>>28553421
>giving somebody a gift and being their slave are different things
Good thing I'm not advocating slavery, then! Think of a job as giving someone a gift so they give you a gift back.
>>28553432
you essentially are advocating slavery
giving somebody a gift so you get one back is communism, taking somebody's orders in principle so that thety may give you a small gift of what is needed is capitalism
the spookyest
>>28553451
So the size of the gift determines whether it's capitalism or communism?
>>28553472
no, it's the nature of the gift
a worker gifts himself to a capitalist, not a thing
>>28553451
then don't give them the thing....
>>28553481
If all the other workers are willing to then I just go hungry?
>>28553490
Capitalism doesn't exist in an American vacuum
There are a lot of factors for why you're not making as much as you want, many of them aren't free market at all.
>>28553478
No, you aren't allowed to gift a person. That's human trafficking, and it's illegal. You gift some of your effort and they gift some of their money. It can end whenever either party wants, and it's completely voluntary.
>>28553503
I don't want to make money, I want to make what I choose to
that's the centre of the issue
>>28553507
if you were only giving them effort, they'd have no command over it because effort can't respond to requests
>>28551971
>anarchist
>no rules
>now normies can fuck you up even more phisically and directly
no, i'm not fit enough
>>28553519
The problem is, it costs money to stay alive. You may think survival is an easy thing because it looks easy on the surface, but it actually takes an enormous amount of effort to keep this whole thing going. If you don't do your part to help, don't be surprised when you don't get anything in return. What you're saying is equivalent to sitting on a flooding boat and saying "well what if I don't WANT to bail water?"
>>28553536
They don't have any command over you. You can leave whenever you please.
>>28553554
I know, if you don't help others you don't get help back and we call that mutual aid which is a principle of communism
>>28553569
So capitalism is just communism with dollar signs.
>>28553567
even if I can, which is ignoring that I can't produce food or have a house on my own if I'm selling my own labour, you're still their subject while you're there
>>28553585
no, capitalism is communism with private property, wage labour and usually the state
>>28553569
Communism is forced co-operation.
Capitalism is an exchange.
Why do you think hard core commies want to break down race and gender? They want people to buy into the cult or they'll shoot them as political dissidence.
It's a very terrifying ideology, capitalism is a cake walk in comparison.
>>28553586
>I can't produce food or have a house on my own
Not my problem.
>you're still their subject while you're there
No you aren't.
>>28553608
read Kropotkin is all I can say to that
>>28553601
If you made a good enough wage would you be ok with capitalism?
Capitalism is also about entrepreneurship you know?
You can be the boss if you have good idea, the problem is, we're not all Steve Jobs so we get angsty at our lot in life.
>>28553611
>I can't own private property or start a business on my own
Not my problem
>I'm still your subject while I'm there
no you aren't
t. tsar of all the russias
>>28553628
>If you made a good enough wage would you be ok with capitalism?
no
>Capitalism is also about entrepreneurship you know?
entepreneurship focuses in principle on demand, not what's actually a good idea or is progress, most scientific research is state-funded as of now
>You can be the boss if you have good idea, the problem is, we're not all Steve Jobs so we get angsty at our lot in life.
maybe if I have a popular idea and sacrifice my individuality to the collective
>>28553615
Well then I won't press you more on it.
You're a revolutionary after all. You would have me shot for something or another.
Rolling with Stirner here because it completes my edgy soul.
I don't understand how anarcho-collectivism could exist irl, as at the tipping point it turns to authoritarianism or individualist anarchism.
Ancaps, as a sect of individualist anarchism have a point tho, their ideas could actually be executed irl.
>>28553650
Scientific research can be pointless.
>>28553669
ancaps are not a part of the individualist tradition because an economic system has to exist on a collective scale
>mfw unironic ancaps are in this thread
leave
>>28553682
maybe pointless right now
remember we got non-stick frying pans from space travel
>>28553650
>not what's actually a good idea or is progress,
I take it you alone decide what "progress" is?
>>28553697
I don't, and I can't think of someone who does, which is why I'm against governments and markets.
>>28553705
So what you're saying is you're in favor of the biggest asshole with the most guns that comes and establishes a government and a market.
>>28553696
Yes and space technology was correlated with missile technology so it was in the state's interest to invest in it for more power to the state. Either way you could have non stick pans with enough investment in private research I'm sure.
There's also the phenom of charity and donations in a free society.
Humanitarianism wouldn't disappear overnight because people collectively decide they don't want a state to force them around.
>>28553725
no, that's a common misconception and you should also read this short pamphlet: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/errico-malatesta-anarchy
>>28553733
charity often does more harm than good, in the same way the worst slaveowners were the nicest to their slaves
for there to be real change there has to be radical change, short term remedies can just entrench the problem further
>>28553738
Your referrals are annoying.
You refereed me to Krop because you didn't want to answer a hard question about what to do with people who don't want to share in your communist wonderland.
So are you a neet who hangs around /r9k/ and reads communist progoganda or something?
>>28553686
Well, you can keep telling yourself that. Collective anything is the opposite if individualist anything.
>>28553753
I'm sorry about the referrals anon, but there's books and books on this stuff and I can't explain it all in short little posts
>>28553750
Yes just like the government does charity in the form of taxes and calls the rich greedy for not giving enough.
The end of the state is the end of slavery.
Capitalism is not slavery stop being a cuck.
>>28553774
I've been against the government this whole time.
>>28553738
So basically he's saying anarchism can work because people are naturally kind to each other and want to cooperate. This is patently false, so I can disregard the whole thing. Thanks for wasting my time, I won't read the next link you inevitably post.
>>28553810
so I can't recommend you Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution?
>>28553782
The working class tend to be low IQ, and there's a correlation between economic mobility and IQ. Just look at Asians in America they've done great over the course of a few generations.
Why should they be expected to give what they've earned to people who are lesser then them?
Why shouldn't they allow them to work like animals in their factories?
Why is it their fault if the animals continue to breed and not take care of themselves?
>>28553825
your line was that a worker is completely autonomous under employment, now you're saying that workers are no better than animals
>>28553824
Nope, because I can guess what it's about.
>chimps help other members of their chimp tribe
>therefore, communist revolution
Altruism exists to preserve your genetic line. If someone isn't related to you, you're much less likely to help them and much more likely to fuck them over for your benefit.
>>28553845
It's more of an existential observation.
>>28553867
most people I've met are closer with their friends or girlfriends than immediate family though
>>28553845
Is it impossible to be an autonomous animal? A dog is stupid, but it does what it wants.
>>28553887
no, dogs live in packs
>>28553883
Well yeah because the west is disintegrating. We aren't exactly a model society for healthy families.
>>28553898
your claim was that it was biologically determined
>>28553845
Unlike you I'm not trying to suck the dick of every human on earth and say they're as valuable as the next man.
This appeals to the vanity of a lowly worker, but I was taught to not be vain early in life.
>>28553915
then why do you give a shit about capitalism?
just make yourself tsar or dictator and get a harem
>>28553923
That too is vanity.
>>28553943
go be a buddhist monk I don't know
>>28553949
Buddhism is a spook
>>28553956
so is not being vain
>>28553960
That's why I like capitalism.
>>28553966
but why do you prefer it over autocracy with you as autocrat?
>>28553970
Now we see why states are so dangerous.
>>28554033
dangerous to whom if you don't care about anybody else?
unless you pull a commodus and get strangled in the bath
>>28553608
>>28553608
>Why do you think hard core commies want to break down race and gender? They want people to buy into the cult or they'll shoot them as political dissidence.
No, it's because race and gender are arbitrary and meaningless divisions that are used to exploit or oppress a certain group of people. It also distracts from class struggle which is the basis of all oppression.
>>28554048
Capitalism is about other people more then the person, even if it's for your own profit and reputation, you're still accountable for making a good product or service, there's checks and balances and accountability.
A political legacy is usually about how many enemies of the people a person punished, it's about eroding the restrictions of your own control.
One creates enemies, the other creates products.
There a certain nobility in that imo.
>>28554132
but who says that what the masses want is best?
>>28554145
I'm just not that arrogant to say people should do things a certain way. I oppose Islam because it's lies and a tyrannical political ideology. I oppose welfare because it subsidizes low IQ poor decision makers who just perpetuate themselves.
Like Viscous on cowboy bebop my bloodlust isn't that great that my only concern would be my own control to build a worthless pyramid legacy that future generations have to rebuild from.
>>28551971
/r9k/ has no economic system
>>28554167
so you're fine with bad things happening to the poor because it doesn't reflect badly on you?
>>28554192
No I'm not ok with bad things happening.
That's why we shouldn't encourage them.
I am poor. I hate myself. I'm not going to get on neetbux, if it was truly a problem there are places in the US where you can work minimum wage and stay alive.
I'm not going to have kids and burden you with them, deal?
>>28554238
no need to hate yourself anon
>>28554281
Thank you Anonymous, you were always there for me.
>>28551971
faggy communist academia and media is what made us robots in the first place, /r9k/ is a deeply socially conservative board (we hate sluts, immodesty, Chads etc.), I'd say the most fitting form of government for us would be constitutional monarchy or if it needs to be a democracy, it'd be a nationalist one where monogamy and marrying young are expected of everyone
>>28554294
Those are some cool motherfuckers
>>28554306
except for the autist on the right with his awkward pose. notice the way he stands on the side of his feet and also his forward head. what a fuckin nerd
>>28552906
i want to have sex with ayn rand
>>28554338
looks like a sort of /fa/ meetup
>>28554306
>>28554338
>>28554359
those are the Ramones, lads
