>start adopting a conservative and right-wing outlook on the world
>life improves
>realize I have been lied to for all these years
Why the fuck haven't haven't you started being more conservative in your lifestyle.
For years, I've felt like the media and schooling system have been feeding me shit like "masculine guys are just a bunch of meatheads", "if you're depressed, society has to understand you", "women like effeminate nice guys", "you are entitled to everything, even if you don't do anything, because you are a beautiful special little snowflake"
I feel like I have been reclaiming my masculinity and regained my sense of responsibility for my life. And you can to.
Every time you make a post asserting that all of your problems are someone elses responsibility or bitching about not getting what you want instead of working for it, or mocking people for being successful, employed or virile, you are adopting the cowards philosophy.
The left is about celebrating mediocrity and chasing after some fantasy of equality. The right is about celebrating personal success and individualism.
Oh, it's another "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" thread.
Yes, I'm sure the Republican party has your best interest in mind, working class anon.
lmbo.
>>27551817
All the left wants to do is give us more money and keep us NEET
In a twisted way, they are making the classes more rigid.
The right is about empowering the individual and helping us move upwards
>>27551817
>lol I deserve handouts and support just for being born, im such a special snowflake rofl
>>27551850
>we shouldn't protect the working class
>think of the poor millionaires and billionaires who may have to pay slightly more in taxes!
>we should cut spending, but don't you dare touch my insanely bloated military budget!
t. "temporarily embarrassed millionaire"
>>27551872
>the democrats are for the working class
lmao. more taxes, just what the working class needs! more welfare for others, just what the workers need!
Fuck off normalfag scum
>>27551806
>"masculine guys are just a bunch of meatheads", "if you're depressed, society has to understand you", "women like effeminate nice guys", "you are entitled to everything, even if you don't do anything, because you are a beautiful special little snowflake"
I don't buy into any of that and I'm as far left as they come. The only real difference between left and right is that people on the right delight in the suffering of others because they believe in a just world. People on the left see problems and want to solve them.
>>27551889
>more taxes
Oh, do you make more than $250K a year?
>tfw completely cold, rational positivist and realist view of existence that would typically be called right wing
>tfw smug nietzschean just world retards like the OP completely and totally turn you off
>tfw you will never fit in anywhere
Women DO like effeminate nice guys. It's how I got a GF. It might be more of a leftie woman thing, but it is for sure a trend.
>>27552001
>leftie women
Prepare to get kek'd hard, friendo.
The healthiest relationships always between a strong masculine man and a strong feminine woman.
That is how you get a trusting respecting relationship
>>27552059
Wtf is a "strong feminine woman"?
>>27552068
Typically, these guys who are so obsessed with being "masculine" want a woman so submissive that they're basically a fucktoy.
I'm all about submissive women and treating the like a fucktoy in the bedroom if they're into that too, but these retards take that out into the real world.
>>27552059
You can tell yourself that if it makes you feel big and strong. I don't really give a shit. You people act like cheating is ubiquitous but it really isn't. A good, healthy relationship is between two people who treat each other as equals and partners and who care about each other enough not to cheat.
>>27552104
Pipe down there Che, I wanted an answer from someone who doesn't carry his balls in a purse
>>27552104
>traditional women are just submissive fucktoy
You don't have a very high regard for femininity, do you?
Traditional gender roles make people happier.
>>27552161
>>Traditional gender roles make people happier.
If you're happy with a leech doing nothing at home while you're the sole provider for your family then by my guest.
>>27551806
You should definitely have traditional conservative moral values.
But that would include being celibate until marriage. All the robots whining about being virgins would have to ask themselves why aren't they married yet? If you want to marry a virgin, you're going to have to look for rural, religious girls before they've been corrupted by the liberal Jewish media.
I don't know if the right wing has always been anti-science, but they're that way due to corporatism (and arguably also due to braindead Judeo-Christian ideas from the Bible about doing whatever the fuck you want to the planet).
The right is not "about celebrating personal success and individualism." Corporations are legal fictions that were invented to avoid personal responsibility. An LLC is a Limited Liability Corporation, meaning if they fuck up, their liability is limited. It's not their fault. They can blame someone else. They can nearly destroy the world economy and nobody goes to jail.
For example, Trump has declared bankrupty like 4 times. That's not about "personal success." That's about making bad bets, reckless gambling, and avoiding responsibility when you can't pay your bills. You're saying "I can't pay, so this is not my problem anymore."
The right does tend to have more bullies, more meatheads, less people who are self-aware enough to be depressed (unless they're perhaps military veterans), etc. And the left does tend to have more (oversocialized) effeminate nice guys.
But there is no reason to suck the cocks of billionaires. Rich people tend to believe in the just world fallacy, that they earned everything they have in this world, when it's actually luck most of the time.
The right likes to talk about "every man for himself", and yet huge banks were happy to take government bailouts to prop up the worldwide delusion that is the financial system based on fiat currency that they just print more of.
>>27552250
I feel like this was a good post that explained some of the reasons I can never fully get into the right
>>27552146
Women don't want to be treated as equals. That's a lie.
If a woman doesn't look up to you, she looks down on you.
Women don't actually believe in equality. Nearly all of female social interactions are about establishing a pecking order.
Nah, I think that a small parasite class shouldn't own a vast majority of property while the working class works on that property.
Industry and such would be much better off collectively owned by the people who work it instead of privately owned by another separate class, and without capitalism, we wouldn't have deliberate limitation of production so there would be a big benefit that way too in terms of just how much stuff we'd have and would be able to share.
>>27552178
It's called raising children.
Yes, women and children tend to be leeches (unless they're in a sweatshop making your clothes and phones).
>>27552160
It would be similar to a strong male, but, of course I don't mean looks like a dyke, but, intelligent and independent, no matter how rare you perceive it to be, I'm sure you understand the concept.
>unironically not with the God emperor
>unironically voting for Shillary or Bernie Kikers
>>27552286
Nice work spouting the /r9k/ dogma that has no basis in reality.
>>27552318
>wanting children
You're too far gone.
>>27552178
>yes goyim, both of you must work and eat out instead of homecooked meals
>don't forget to stop in at Berg's bugers
>>27551806
The current establishment is liberal and so their view of the world is corrupted by the pressures of power to lie and be cunts.
By contrast the conservatives are fledgling and so they must be more realistic than they were in the past to attract support, though they are not 100% realistic.
>>27552482
>men can't cook for themselves
You're alright having someone laze around the house and throw a meal in the oven while they go back to watching gossip tv?
>>27552250
An LLC is not a corporation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability_company
>It is a business structure that combines the pass-through taxation of a partnership or sole proprietorship with the limited liability of a corporation.
But yeah, the whole idea of limited liability is avoiding responsibility for your actions (just like feminism).
>[T]hat he who acts through an agent should be responsible for his agent's acts, and that he who shares the profits of an enterprise ought also to be subject to its losses; that there is a moral obligation, which it is the duty of the laws of a civilised nation to enforce, to pay debts, perform contracts and make reparation for wrongs. Limited liability is founded on the opposite principle and permits a man to avail himself of acts if advantageous to him, and not to be responsible for them if they should be disadvantageous; to speculate for profits without being liable for losses; to make contracts, incur debts, and commit wrongs, the law depriving the creditor, the contractor, and the injured of a remedy against the property or person of the wrongdoer, beyond the limit, however small, at which it may please him to determine his own liability
>-Edward William Cox
In a way, a corporation declaring bankrupty is kind of like a woman getting an abortion. They both got fucked, and don't want to deal with the consequences of the bad decisions they made.
The right doesn't actually believe in letting companies rise or fall on their own merits. Corporations are more than happy to take advantage of socialized government safety nets, and demonize the poor for doing the same.
>>27551806
If you support Trump, you are a controlled opposition imbecile and a false conservative.
Get the fuck out of my ideology, fuckfaces.
>>27552482
Nigger do you not understand how simple cooking is?
>>27552599
You're all bootlickers anyways.
>>27552576
The abortion analogy is absurd. Getting an abortion IS dealing with the decision you made. It's just dealing with in in a way you don't like.
>>27552599
I Hate the Old GOP as much as the Democrats mate. Trump will reform the party into something i can identify with
>>27552599
>not muh true conservative!
fuck conservatives, they're dumb as shit when it comes to many topics. all of them are above the age of 50 and completely out of touch with the modern world. they all need to die so the right wing ideologies in this country have a chance at going somewhere. til they leave we're stuck with Bush/Reagan tier faggots like who continue to utterly ruin the country.
I grow up poor but I was also raised with pride in the fact that I am a working class Man and in that way I always refuse to accept handouts, despite how bad my depression gets, and how much isolation I find myself in, I will never allow them to take away my right to pay my own way, it's the last piece of identity I have.
If you're not a conservative, you're an idiot.
>>27552632
Everybody in the world kisses somebody else's ass, goy. Even you.
Better get used to it. You won't be in college forever ;)
>>27552647
>reform
>party
Democracy is fucking retarded and so are you.
>>27552666
I don't consider any non-fascist a true conservative.
>>27551895
It is more complicated than that.
Both sides mean well, the problem is conservatives have to draw votes from christcucks to stay afloat while liberals can't handle criticism.
>>27551839
>The right is about empowering the individual
The right is about empowering the rich while scapegoating the poor and erasing the middle class. Look outside of the American bubble.
>>27552403
It's true.
Betas are likely to treat women as equals, and that is why they fail with women. Alphas are likely to treat women as inferiors, and that is why they succeed with women (besides their looks, status, etc. Simply treating women as inferiors is not quite enough to attract women, but it's a start.)
Females establish a pecking order amongst themselves, and among men (alpha/beta). This is all due to competition for mates.
Women didn't flock to buy 50 Shades of Gray because Christian Gray treats a woman like an equal. They flocked to buy it because he dominates her. Women are attracted to dominant men. That is the reality. And the only reason Trump gets any votes at all is because he constantly projects an aura of dominance, and never apologizes.
Women are attracted to dominance, in and out of the bedroom. They won't always used the word "dominance", maybe saying "confidence" instead, or "strong", or "able to defend me", or "able to keep me safe", but it's all the same thing.
>A 1974 study by Hariton and Singer[1] found that being "overpowered or forced to surrender" was the second most frequent fantasy in their survey; a 1984 study by Knafo and Jaffe ranked being overpowered as their study's most common fantasy during intercourse. In 1985, Louis H. Janda who is an associate professor of psychology at Old Dominion University[2] said that the sexual fantasy of being raped is the most common sexual fantasy for women.[3] A 1988 study by Pelletier and Herold found that over half of their female respondents had fantasies of forced sex.[4]
>A study of college-age women found over half had engaged in fantasies of rape or coercion which, another study claims, are within the normal range of female sexuality.[10]
>>27551921
Which Democrat are you talking about, because Bernie the Cuck Sanders is nearly out of the primary and Hillary is for raising taxes on people in the middle class slightly.
>>27552738
And the left is about empowering and enriching individuals who may or may not contribute nothing of value to society. Often on the basis that enriching or promising to enrich them provides a steady supply of votes in the next election.
>>27552675
If you have in pride in the fact that you're a working class man, then read up on socialism, because I'll tell you now it's not handouts and it's not taxes and it's not giving anybody anything for free, it's the workers, who work the property, owning that industry democratically and horizontally, instead of a ruling class fuck who steals the surplus value of your labour to keep the wage system, and his life of unearned luxury possible.
>>27552678
>I can't think good so I'll ad hom :^)
>>27552722
>I don't consider any non-fascist a true conservative.
eh that's better than being some GOP goy
still really dumb
>>27552789
Hey, remember when socialism was tried in pretty much the whole world for 100 years and it never worked?
>>27552789
Why would I support a system tha allows more Government to control more of the economy and remove the private sector almost entirely, removing the Free-Market system and in turn removing any hope I would have of getting rich just because some of my fellow workers are bitter and decide everyone deserves to be in the shit just because we were born in it?
>>27552250
This is a good post.
>>27551806
OP, Trump is not a model for masculinity. You like the fact that he's 'unapologetic', but he's more of a buffoon.
He says all sorts of things, often what seems to be just whatever's on his mind for that moment, and later on he's forced to clarify or retract those statements, and in some instances he has. Whether he retracts or not, he speaks recklessly.
He's more a model of the Alpha that women love to elect over men, and whom many men will support because doing otherwise means they could be attacked by women. Women prefer males who are brash, loud, happy to use violence against others, unapologetic, dominant, etc. None of these qualities actually serve or protect men, though. The moment he's accumulated enough shit, he can be disposed of, and that's the type of Alpha women love. A disposable male. The 'sacrifice king'.
His comments on muslims are so ridiculously irresponsible it's insane. He's not "telling it like it is", he's actively insulting millions of people who will then have more reason to sympathise with the enemies of America (I don't have a problem with this).
I'm not saying any of the other canditates are any better, just that you shouldn't see him as a model of masculinity or of free manhood.
>>27552411
I don't want children, because it would be creating a new life of pain and suffering on this fucked up planet.
But for the past 4 billion years, that's what all my ancestors have done.
Sex creates death. All parents sets in motion a process that will only end in pain and death. Think of all the pain and suffering that has ever been experienced by any lifeform on this Earth. If a lifeform had just refused, rejected the absurdity of it all, think of all the suffering that never would have been.
I have simply reached a state of self-awareness where I think that all life on Earth has been a mistake.
>"It would be better if there were nothing. Since there is more pain than pleasure on earth, every satisfaction is only transitory, creating new desires and new distresses, and the agony of the devoured animal is always far greater than the pleasure of the devourer" - Arthur Schopenhauer
But honestly, the end goal of progressivism is depopulation:
http://www.rooshv.com/the-end-goal-of-western-progressivism-is-depopulation
>Abortion
>Birth control
>Women working
>Homosexuality and transexuality
>atheism, nihilism, individualism, consumerism
>environmentalism
>immigration
>All of the above decreases the reproductive rate, either directly through the killing of life, or indirectly by promoting guilt and alternative lifestyles that are incompatible with the creation of life. At the same time, immigrant populations are allowed to grow at a faster rate that the natives' ability to reproduce.
>Leftists have been soundly convinced of issues that lead to the destruction of the family unit, the breakdown of their society's social fabric, and their own voluntary sterilization.
>the only way to defeat the evils of liberalism, feminism, social justice, and progressivism is to have huge families and create tribes that are free-thinking, self-reliant, and, most importantly, armed.
>>27552840
Hey rememeber when capitalism has been in practice for more than 200 years and there are still homeless people and people dying from hunger?
>>27552996
Hey, remember the laws of nature and "Survival of The Fittest" or "Life Isn't Fair"
>>27552840
No, actually, I remember when state capitalism was tried, a very nationalistic, non socialist way of doing things, hell, in the USSR, most of the industry wasn't even collectively owned, so, it's was of course not socialist, merely ran by socialists until Lenin died, then ran by tyrants holding the banner of the left while suppressing actual left wing movements.
Similar to Juche, in North Korea, how they claim to be "democratic" and "socialist" while clearly neither is what happened with Russia, China, and Albania and whoever.
>>27552907
Simple. You shouldn't support that at all.
The far left sees the government and capitalism (but not free markets themselves, the idea is rather that capitalism can not be free) as both things to get rid of, as they're both exploitative and reliant on unnecessary hierarchy. Both Marxist Communism and Anarchism advocate a classless, flat world without government control, and Proudhonian Mutualism, a form of Anarchism actually includes markets, and market socialism is a thing, but, the point is, we don't want more government control, we want more local community control, and more autonomy and control over the things we use ourselves. Only the most autistic tankie idiots look up to Mao or Kim-Jung-Etc
>>27553008
Hey, remember when human behaviour is defined primarily the material conditions of society?
>>27552996
>country and economy collapses ir being a horrible state = some people being poor
Nice
>>27552646
Abortion is dealing with your mistakes like murder is dealing with your mistakes. How could someone be for abortion but against infanticide?
And BTW, when it comes to godless liberals, any negative reaction to all rules and norms and moral codes and laws can be boiled down to "you just don't like it!"
Corporations want to do whatever the fuck they want and not have to pay the piper, hence, bankruptcy and government bailouts.
Women want to fuck whoever they want and not have to deal with the consequences, hence, contraception and abortion.
>>27553057
I'm not against infanticide, morality doesn't exist, act in your own self interest and seize the means of production, and live in a peaceful world because that serves you best, not because of some silly ass external morals that might end up hurting you more than helping you.
>>27553043
>the paris commune
>robert owen's socialist experiments
>anarchist spain
>free ukranian territory
etc etc. Didn't work, deal with it. Just accept that socialism is a dead ideology.
>>27552748
But I don't fail with women. I have a GF of four years and I got with her and kept her by treating her as an equal, not as a subordinate. 50 Shades is considered trash by a ton of women, including my GF, who is not particularly into domination in the bedroom or otherwise.
One of the lies /r9k/ tells themselves is that all women are the same. The only reason that they can believe this is that they do not know any women. Either that, or they are so wrapped up in fantasy notions of masculinity that prop up their fragile egos that they avoid all evidence to the contrary, lest it break their fragile worldview. Which is it?
>>27553057
What infanticide? An embryo or a fetus is not an infant. Try again.
>>27552996
Conservatives and the Republican party don't even practice capitalism, which has its major faults, but they follow a dangerous ideology in corporatism.
Modern conservatives and the Republican party are only interested in creating an aristocracy.
>>27552777
All corporations need consumers.
Oh wait, did you think that you actually "contribute" anything to society besides the dollars you spend on goods and services?
Do you honestly think that the financial sector actually creates anything of "value"?
>>27553085
Rojava and the EZLN :^)
Seriously though, we can't just throw out everything that's failed at least once because capitalism has had it's own failed revolutions too.
>>27553008
Yeah call it "nature" all right ;) We're all in here posting because "nature".
Oh i know, i know. It's those damn immigrants!
>>27552996
Hey, remember how the Industrial Revolution is only about 200 years old and how the planet hasn't been this warm in 66 million years?
>>27551817
>he thinks bernie "whites cant be poor" sanders has our best interests in mind
>>27553126
>EZLN
LOL. Have you even researched that? They literally survive thanks to engaging in capitalist enterprise. As in, they make indians produce and sell things for profit. Except their profits are taken away from them instead of letting them keep it (typical communism)
And let's not forget their dealings with drug cartels, terrorist groups like FARC, etc and the government lel. There's a reason why they don't speak out against drug cartels. Too bad, so sad :\
>>27553008
Neither the Right nor the Left believe in "survival of the fittest." They both want government safety nets.
Neither do most people who live in a civilization.
If you really believed in survival of the fittest, you'd be off living on your own.
I do think that human efforts to impose fairness on things often make things worse. But I'm not like Paul Bloom who thinks empathy makes the world worse.
http://www.theatlantic.com/video/index/474588/why-empathy-is-a-bad-thing/
But Justice is humanity's biggest myth. Reality is what you can get away with.
>>27553239
>intentionally removing context
Come on now.
Anyways, he only sort of does. The problem is, he's still a reformist, he still wants to make Capitalism more palatable instead of replacing it.
>>27553264
Anarchist have military hierarchy sometimes too. Marxists, despite wanting no state, use the state.
>>27553288
>They both want government safety nets.
Excuse me m8?
>>27551817
>I'm sure the Republican party has your best interest in mind
I thought you people were saying Trump isn't even a republican
>>27553084
Morality does exist. It's been observed in humans and other animals too.
You could argue that absolute morality does not exist, but then you're left with little justification for anything.
This is some tumblr tier logic going on in this thread. Just vote for trump because build wall and don't worry your little heads off.
>>27553357
>Morality does exist.
Not him, but of course it exists. I think what he was trying to say is that OBJECTIVE morality doesn't exist, which is true.
>>27553341
>slimy
>racist
>insecure with his masculinity
>wants to further transform the country into an aristocracy that only serves the wealthy elite
Sounds like a model Republican to me
>>27553338
>Marxists, despite wanting no state, use the state.
Criminal organizations and terrorist cells too, amirite? Who gives a fuck where the money comes from ;)
Anarchist movements are such corrupt horseshit
>>27553400
Why are liberals always spewing uneducated opinions>
>>27551806
There's a balance to be had between the two.
>Celebrating personal success and individualism
This is just selfish.
What you need to do is contribute as best as you can to society and civilisation. You have to find the best way to do that.
Compassion for the stupid, the weak, the disabled and the malformed is understandable but ultimately a foolish dead-end.
Compassion for the criminal, for those who would abuse and take advantage, is worst of all.
A proper world would be one where the greedy are harshly punished, where the weak are put out of the way and left alone to either improve themselves or stay in some cheap, low quality ghetto-like accomodation while everyone else pulls together, shares resources and does the best they can to advance humanity.
Be hard but be fair.
>>27553424
They think twitter posts are the gospel truth
>>27553153
Typical leftie who can't bare the uncomfortable notion that the only thing that separates you from your NEET comfort zone and homeless starvation is 3 weeks of NEETbux. I didn't say a thing about Immigrants, my wife is an Immigrant, Immigrants are hard working people who I respect more than half of my native peoples.
>>27553357
The only justification I'll ever need is my own self interest.
>>27553397
Yeah, sorry, jim beam.
>>27553423
Why would some group, who hates the state, care about the state's laws? It's not bad to be a criminal, or to try to use fear as a political tool, the ruling class is still worse.
>>27553457
>>27553424
>words straight out of Trump's mouth
>not representative of Trump
Ok Cletus, whatever Rush Limbaugh tells you.
>>27553510
>Lefty
>Being able to listen to Trump for more than 5 minutes without getting triggered
Yeah, I believe you
>>27553424
What education is needed for your silly little flame war? A diploma from the shitposting university?
>>27553576
High school economics
>>27553631
What does high school economics have to do with the post you replied to, my NEET friend?
>>27551806
>The right is about celebrating personal success and individualism.
which is why everyone on the right is obsessed with collectivist shit like religion and race and nation
>>27553631
>lives life in a /pol/ Twitter screencapped echo chamber
You sure are enlightened, anon.
You're so educated that you're missing the point of Bernies platform in that Tweet entirely.
>>27553098
>But I don't fail with women. I have a GF of four years and I got with her and kept her by treating her as an equal, not as a subordinate. 50 Shades is considered trash by a ton of women, including my GF, who is not particularly into domination in the bedroom or otherwise.
Then you're not a robot. Call me when she fucks someone more dominant.
Has your GF read it? I'm sure a lot of women *say* it's trash, because they want to appear like classy ladies, but women lie about what turns them on all the time:
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/jul/05/what-do-women-want-extract
>How to explain the conflict between what the women claimed and what their genitals said?
>As they enrolled in the study, Chivers' subjects identified themselves as straight or lesbian. They were shown images of sex between men and women, women and women, men and men, and a pair of bonobos (a species of ape). The subjects, straight and lesbian, were turned on right away by all of it, including the copulating apes. While they watched, they also held a keypad on which they rated their own feelings of arousal. So Chivers had physiological and self-reported scores. They hardly matched at all.
>One of the lies /r9k/ tells themselves is that all women are the same.
The idea of "equality" has only existed for 60 years out of humanity's 2mil yr history. Women are the gender that carry babies for 9mos, so their preference in mates is pretty consistent most of the time. And women themselves have done studies on what women want:
http://www.salon.com/2013/06/02/the_truth_about_female_desire_its_base_animalistic_and_ravenous/
>The truth about female desire: It's base, animalistic and ravenous
>What infanticide? An embryo or a fetus is not an infant.
I didn't say it was. But if abortion is right, why is infanticide wrong? They both wish their child never existed.
>>27553688
>be me
>be right wing
>don't give a shit what nationality or race you are as long as you work hard
try harder libtard
>>27553688
And hierarchy, all that "natural" hierarchy, it's pretty submissive.
>>27553719
I dont even have to say anything to you since you will be swarmed by /pol/tards for not being "racially aware" or whatever garbage lmao
>>27553719
Yeah but you work hard for your boss, not yourself, since you don't actually own what you produce in the capitalist system. Unless you're an irrelevant independent.
>>27553725
>>27553687
It's the first step in realizing why you shouldn't be a lefty.
>>27553705
>Mental gymnastics
How long until we start talking about privilege?
>>27553771
The weak left in action, allowing everyone else to do everything for you, lazy socialist.
>>27553796
>>How long until we start talking about privilege?
You just did. Sound a little triggered over there, conservacuck.
>Communism has neva been dun befoah I swear it
American and European communists are a riot. My neighbor is from Estonia and he tells me how shit it was. You had money but you could barely get nice things or half decent food because demand was bigger than supply. Housing was shit as things would constantly break down. He said he was in shock when he visited an American Supermarket for the first time.
>>27553791
Money is a means to gain wealth, not due wealth itself. The money I do earn goes to fund a lifestyle I am happy and content with, I don't think I deserve things that I have not earned.
>>27553791
Which is why you should work toward starting a business.
>>27553804
Any sane person would be triggered by marxists.
Oh boy! It's another "I have the world all figured out" thread courtesy of
t. high school sophomore
>>27553838
>marxists
What happened to being educated? Grasping for words you don't understand, already?
>falling for the conservative "small business" meme
Ha. They don't care about small business, anon. They care about the already wealthy elite.
>>27553796
High School economics is where you stopped, isn't it?
>>27553814
I never said money was wealth. What you produce is wealth. What you use to produce is wealth. Wealth that would be better off for everybody in your hands instead of your bosses.
Your boss, to gain any profit at all, has to exploit you and give you less than you've earned, so we get the wage system. You are being stolen from, and made a slave.
>>27553838
Any sane person would read Marx first before getting triggered about ideas they have only guessed at.
>>27553338
>>They both want government safety nets.
>Excuse me m8?
Were you alive 8 years ago when Lehman Brothers declared bankruptcy and the world economy nearly imploded and the banks wanted bailouts?
Corporations seek to privatize their profits and socialize their losses.
Individuals want handouts.
I mean, the whole idea of taxes are socialist in nature, so it's no surprise people want something back for it. Taxes came about with farmers giving grain to Mesopotamian Godkings. But nowadays populations typically expect something in return besides the king drinking all the beer.
>>27553892
I am fully aware that my Boss would gain capital from my labour, that's how capitalism works. As for my Boss, a man who built his business from nothing, the same background as me, I believe he is entitled to reap the benefits of his life's work.
>>27553940
>built his business from nothing
God damn, that's a taste conservacuck meme
>>27553487
>The only justification I'll ever need is my own self interest.
Hi Ayn Rand.
But how exactly do you decide which courses of action would best be in your self-interest?
>>27551872
The left abandoned the working class long time ago. They can get by on the minority vote only: Mexicans, blacks, women, queers. Your prophet Bernie openly says that whites can't be as poor as blacks. Sure, it was in context of his speech, but this is indicative if where their priorities lie: get that minority vote.
>>27553978
Are you saying a man who worked hard until the age of 32, saving every penny he earned so that he could open his own business and build it up from nothing has earned no right to his money?
Whereas a socialist who has done nothing of worth his entire life HAS earned the right to his money?
>>27553907
Taxes. Are. Not. Socialism. Do I have to add this into every post I make? Communists, and Anarchists, are against taxes in any form, they are exploitation.
>>27553940
That's your boss, look at the class as a whole, most of them are idle, not working, inheritors, schemers, making their money off property built up by generations of workers and owned by generations of owners. They hardly earned it when the game was rigged in their favour. Unless your boss is a small business owner, in which case, good for him, he's petit-bourgeois, a mini-capitalist, he's like a mole on the ass of the problem in that case.
>>27554007
Liberals have betrayed the left since it's been possible to do so. They are, in my mind, centrists at best. Scum. Counter-revolutionaries who are more harmful than the right.
>>27551806
>if you're depressed, society has to understand you
Literally what is wrong with this?
>>27553940
Capitalism is based on reaping the benefits of the life's work of others. It's fundamentally parasitic. Or do you think that Tim Cook assembles all those iPhones?
>>27554097
Why should you problems matter more than anyone else's? There are probably more important people who contribute more to society than you ever will in your entire existance who have worse problems.
>>27551806
it's only cause you're poor and think you have some sort of white privilege. you're really just going around microaggressing females, people of color, disables, lgbt people to mkae youreslf feel better.
it's divide and conquer you fell for the meme but really you're just a pathetic white person who is shit ot this world.
>>27554115
>muh contribution to society
Hi, Stalin!
>>27554097
>please coddle me
>>27554097
"Should" and "have to" shouldn't be the same thing. You don't want to give a shit where you don't give a shit, but proper education may make you, you know? No need to force it, just educate.
>>27554117
Calm down falsetto singing flaggot.
>>27554110
The funny thing about this post is the iPhones are assembled in communist China where they banned unions lmao.
>>27554014
>Are you saying a man who worked hard until the age of 32, saving every penny he earned so that he could open his own business and build it up from nothing has earned no right to his money?
Are you saying taxes shouldn't exist?
Are you saying that $100 has as much value to a rich person as it does to a poor person?
>>27554110
No, Tim Cook just sits in his office and has some cuteboy suck him off all day. Everybody knows that CEOs don't really work.
>>27554138
I think you've mistaken me for a lazy commie there pal
>>27554142
>No need to force it, just educate.
Isnt that just forcing, but in a different way?
>>27554110
so what? socialism allows parasites to live for free off of the wealthy? which one is worse?
i found out about people getting 2k a month for being 'disabled' when really they're just lazy. the worst times of people in this world and that's what socialism would create a bunch of them.
>>27554146
Are you saying that just because he is rich and you are poor that he has to give you his $100?
>>27554142
you're a just a poor fucking white male nothing else. you're probably a trump supporter who cares nothing about the poor not one of his policies wants to help them but make life harder for them. your inability to think for yourself has allowed the propaganda train to trap you in the wolfs snare.
i don't care i guess this is how life separates the winners from the losers.
obligatory kill yourself faggot
Anyone else /third way/, realizing that the right, the left, and the center all have their own merits but come with huge gaping flaws that will only hold us down?
I don't mean I'm a fascist though. I've kinda forged out my own ideology from reading a lot of different books from writers of many different outlooks. I want a complete reshaping of society, a complete overturn of macro- and microeconomic structures, towards complete utilization of man's power and ingenuity. The current state man is placed in, which both the left and the right support, is one of lethargy, oppression, ignorance, and humiliation. Man is worth so much more, in my opinion.
>>27551895
>the right delight in the suffering of others because they believe in a just world. People on the left see problems and want to solve them.
Wrong. Right has an egalitarian stance, they are not delighted by suffering, they don't give a damn. And if we're entirely honest, thats what everyone in the West does. Everything is morally wrong, that doesn't end other people's suffering. It's wrong to enjoy leisure time, it's wrong to make a pizza while other people starve.
Everyone is right wing to a certain extent, we all ignore the suffering of others. The Left ist about living a pseudo-lifestyle and leech of the fruits of work of others.
>>27554162
Yeah, but in a cool, not shitty way that I like.
>>27554167
No, you dyke.Socialism does not allow parasites it is entirely about removing parasites.
>>27554191
He needs to give up his capital and join the working class.
>>27551817
>Republicans
>conservative
Kek none of the big parties are actually conservative anymore the GOP just have puritan social values and lust for massive controlling statism
>>27554191
You are missing the point. You cant pretend that a rich person paying $100 in taxes is the same as a poor person paying $100
>>27554019
Well the taxes are typically gathered into a big pool and then allocated based on what a government wants to spend it on.
So taxes are parasitic, like capitalism, but people do have a chance to see some benefit from how they are spent (like public education, highways, getting a government job, etc).
But that ignores the fact that most governments don't even balance budgets, they spend more money than they take in in taxes, and just print more money, leading to inflation.
>>27554110
And socialism is based on punishing the successful for their success. If anything, it facilitates parasites by allowing them to still reap some benefit without contributing
>>27554218
you're so retarded i think you should not be allowed to procreate.
people like your a danger ot the freeworld for how easily you're propagated.
>>27554215
Have you read Marx's Capital yet? It's his most important stuff and vital for understanding Marxism and a majority of what the left talks about.
>>27554243
Not a single bit of that is socialism, communism, syndicalism, mutualism, anarchism, or any far left way of doing things. So what's the problem?
>>27554249
No, socialism is about removing parasites. Anyone who gets free stuff when we have an excess (instead of just throwing it out as that would be the only other option and pointless in socialism) would be, even combined, nowhere near as bloated a caviar sucking mosquito as the exploiter class.
>>27553889
You're right anon. What was I thinking. There's no marxism at all in modern lefty identity politics. None.
>>27553892
That is where I stopped with economics. That's already about 5 steps ahead of most Bernie voters.
>>27554287
>socialism is about removing parasites
Those "parasites" are the reason socialist countries are even able to fund their socialist policies.
>>27554287
Yeah, I've read a lot of Marx and Engel's works. They're pretty interesting. I think a lot of his followers and detractors really missed a lot of what they were saying.
>>27554293
Well maybe that shouldn't be where you stop. You know as much as a high school student, and why would anybody, anybody at all with any power, want them to be economically aware?
And yeah, Marxism is economics, identity politics is counter-revolutionary.
>>27554293
the rich need to pay for our school, our healthcare, and give us mandatory paid wages at our work. we're a social movement aiming to claim and take back control of what should be ours!
yep no marxism at all. do you have a gun to kill yourself by chance?
>>27554243
It's really unfair to discuss this with most people.
They simply just don't understand the system and all the shit that people have to do just to keep things running every day. There are thousands employed just to push money around and hire corporations to build stuff, manage stuff, etc. Thats not even getting into the federal bank or the banking system.
Of course, in America people still believe that things like a minimum wage actually helps the poor so its even worse. I could go into it why neither political party in the U.S has any measure of correct ideas and only a list of complaints and people they need to stuff money down the throat of to get re-elected but I think most people have a sense of how that works.
There's a reason why something like 99% believe politicians are liars and 90% distrust congress as a whole, yet support their own congressman.
Its a shell game and the poor lose the most thanks to liberal 'helping' policies that have only degraded society and created a massive amount of people dependent on government money to survive.
>>27554143
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism
>Marxist literature defines state capitalism as a social system combining capitalism-the wage system of producing and appropriating surplus value-with ownership or control by a state; by this definition, a state capitalist country is one where the government controls the economy and essentially acts like a single huge corporation, extracting the surplus value from the workforce in order to invest it in further production.
>many people argue that the modern People's Republic of China constitutes a form of state capitalism
>Many analysts assert that China is one of the main examples of state capitalism in the 21st century.
>In this system, governments use various kinds of state-owned companies to manage the exploitation of resources that they consider the state's crown jewels and to create and maintain large numbers of jobs. They use select privately owned companies to dominate certain economic sectors. They use so-called sovereign wealth funds to invest their extra cash in ways that maximize the state's profits. In all three cases, the state is using markets to create wealth that can be directed as political officials see fit. And in all three cases, the ultimate motive is not economic (maximizing growth) but political (maximizing the state's power and the leadership's chances of survival). This is a form of capitalism but one in which the state acts as the dominant economic player and uses markets primarily for political gain.
>>27554329
Yeah man, history keeps moving forward. Should we keep sucking off the descendants of the guy who made the first piece of paper, to thank him for imageboards?
>>27554332
Absolutely. I'm not a Marxist, I don't trust Marxists but it's pretty silly how it is really.
>>27554355
That is Liberalism, or Social Democracy, not Marxism, not Socialism.
>>27551839
Until we are all up? Are you serious? Are you that retarded? Jesus butt fucking Christ you must be 8 or something.
It's a lie.
>>27554167
>so what? socialism allows parasites to live for free off of the wealthy? which one is worse?
$1,000 means a lot more to the poor than the wealthy. To the wealthy, it's nothing. To the poor, it can be everything.
There is zero reason to have any empathy for billionaires. They built their fortunes off the backs of millions of people.
Those people who get 2k a month, they will spend it on goods and services. And everyone knows that the wealthy only care about quarterly profits going up.
>>27554442
Why would the wealthy stay in a country that takes their money when they could move to another country that doesn't?
>>27554191
No, I'm saying tax a rich guy $100 and he won't even flinch, but tax a poor guy $100 and that can do some real damage.
Don't feel sorry for the rich guy. He can take it.
My opinion means shit but I'm someone who tries their hardest to be open-minded and look at both sides of the argument.
I just can't get behind the left. They're driven by emotions. Nothing in reality supports leftist ideology. Meanwhile countries always prosper when implementing more libertarian ideas.
>>27554482
>countries always prosper when implementing more libertarian ideas.
>>27554442
ya but when that number steadily increases to where you just have people leeching and nobody contributing is the type of stuff that could turn a prospering nation into a shitty third world country.
>no empathy for billionaires who globalized the world employed 1000 upon 1000s of people, brought us goods and servies
please kill yourself i'm not even kidding you seem like the typical 'muh socialism college student' who's going to crash and burn in the real world.
>>27554465
Fuck em', let them run away. No socialist wants their fucking money, just our property.
>>27554482
Many people, including myself consider Communism to be, not only in our own best interest, but more efficient, without deliberate limitations on production there would be, in comparison, an abundance of material wealth.
>>27554215
>The current state man is placed in, which both the left and the right support, is one of lethargy, oppression, ignorance, and humiliation. Man is worth so much more, in my opinion.
So give everyone home automated gardens.
All of it, all the stacks and stacks of artifice of jobs and money and corporations and commuting, it's about access to food, giving money to the gatekeepers of the food supply (since wild animals tend to disappear wherever humans colonize). It's about food freedom.
>>27554518
If you don't have a strong economy how will there be state funded socialist policies?
>Capitalism is based on reaping the benefits of the life's work of others.
Its based in profit and causes an insane level of industry. There is no alternative that has ever produced similar results. In my opinion the most successful communists were the native americans because of their culture.
If you can point me to any society that has progressed beyond third world that functions well under communist or socialist regulations I'd be surprised. All of them sacrifice the people with more money for the people with less money and still fail to produce results.
>identity politics is counter-revolutionary
identity politics is literally special treatment classes
In the news the other day there was buzz about some law that would ban gay protection regulations in the workplace. Basically since you're gay you need special laws to protect you from people exercising their freedoms all over you. And what, gays are 5% of the population max? They do this with everyone and its getting worse. Blacks have had this for years, hispanics will get it soon enough.
>>27554479
this is why i cant take right wingers seriously
they care more about the elite than the well-being of citizens
gas the rich, class war now
>>27554502
That's literally how Murrica became the most powerful country in the world. A system that encourages its population to produce valuable goods and services in order to prosper will create the most wealth for everyone. I don't see how socialist policies create wealth or incentive for anyone.
>>27554552
>That's literally how Murrica became the most powerful country in the world
Not every country in the world is america
>>27554544
In Communism? There's no state. In an Anarchist Federation? Still no state.
So, there will be no state funded social policies. Dude, Conquest of Bread is short, read that.
>>27554545
Identity politics is bad, I agree.
I can't point you to that, we're aiming for a future society, something that hasn't actually been done yet believe it or not, so, it's a little unfair to say it hasn't worked as well when we haven't really been given a fair shot at doing it.
>>27554552
You work for yourself and for your community. If you make more than you need, and contribute it, everyone benefits, including you, and you will be allowed to share in the collective wealth. Plus, with making your own hours and not needing to worry about starving to death or living on the streets.
>>27554546
It's not that the average conservative person (not the politicians) cares about the elite, it's that they realize the country needs to be conductive to business to have a strong economy. Crony capitalism isn't conductive to business, it only protects the large corporations.
Average conservative people hate crony capitalists just as much as you do.
>>27554570
I understand that but are the countries that implement socialist policies and heavy taxes really prospering right now? I'm living in South Korea (very low taxes) and it's developing like a motherfucker. Health care is extremely cheap and good as well.
>>27554627
Capitalism only protects the Capitalists, crony capitalism is just a little bit worse, still, both are bad for you, and more importantly, bad for me.
>>27554635
Socialism is not taxes. Socialism is not taxes. Socialism is not taxes. Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice.
>>27554622
>You work for yourself and for your community.
But we all know that there's no real incentive to innovate and improve society if that's the only motivation there is. The prospect of great wealth through innovation is what drives societies to prosper. How did America become the most powerful nation in the world? What were they doing differently than every other country at the time?
These are the questions I ask myself. There's no case in history of prosperity from leftist ideology.
>>27554249
I can't imagine how socialism would lead to more parasitism than capitalism because capitalism is based on every person gaining a monetary advantage over the person below them. That's why psychopaths, who are total parasites, do so well in a capitalist system and thrive on Wall Street as daytraders and stockbrokers and CEOs. A good capitalist is merely a good parasite. Get a bunch of immigrants or foreigners to do all the work while you sit back and reap all the rewards.
You could argue that incomes taxes punish the successful for their success. But the rich can afford it. Those poor billionaires won't be living in a cardboard box anytime soon.
>>27554570
Everyone benefits from America. One of America's major exports is machinery. Most countries that America exports to turn around and spend on American services/goods. The return rate on every dollar is 400%, despite the trade deficit. THATs why America strong. Plus the sheer amount of capital and force of investment here is greater than any in the world, we mine money and export the way to advance societies everywhere.
>>27554546
Socialist policies are pallative and no one disagrees except NPR who puts out stories like 'immigrants help the economy'. They actually do help the economy by creating new channels for the government to stream money into, but not as much as someone actually helping someone make a profit which increases the total size of the economy pie for everyone.
People just don't understand that the only reason thing like computers are affordable is that enough profit was made over enough time that it was possible to get one to everyone. Communism can't do that because there's no way to keep people interested in producing and lowering costs.
>>27554622
In a democratic nation with socialist policies. If businesses start leaving your country for another that means less jobs, more strain on the social services put in place, less revenue from trade, less taxes, and more. Why doesn't it make sense to encourage business to flourish in your country?
>>27554682
>What were they doing differently than every other country at the time?
Get involved in every war in the world
>>27554682
Do you get paid to clean your house? And if you had a roommate, would either of you have any incentive to clean your house? People will do things because sitting idle forever is fucking excruciating.
>>27554707
A collectively owned farm can't just up and leave. You're still thinking of this like capitalism+something else.
>>27553057
>Chad Holloway
GET OUT GET OUT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>27554709
Before the 1900s.
>>27554685
>because capitalism is based on every person gaining a monetary advantage over the person below them
Then how were companies in the mid 20th able to provide such high wages? The average American in the 50s could support an entire family with a factory job. What has changed since then?
>>27554747
Wages are exploitation no matter what.
>>27554355
A lot of countries have higher education that students don't pay for, so why not America?
A lot of countries have healthcare that patients don't pay for, so why not America?
If someone is in a traffic accident, don't they have a right to not go bankrupt due to medical bills?
Private insurance companies don't actually add any value to healthcare. The CEOS of private health insurers just skim millions off sick and dying people by denying them "coverage."
There is no reason to allow private health insurers to profit off of sick and dying people. And there is no reason to force private citiziens to buy a product from a private company, lest the IRS come after you.
>>27554764
Employees don't incur the risk of starting their own business. They're trading wealth for security. I have no problem with CEOs taking as much money as they want. If the employees don't like it they can work somewhere else.
>>27554663
>Capitalism only protects the Capitalists
Anyone can be a capitalist. Even my alcoholic mother had her own business. Just because you probably won't make a billion dollars doesn't mean capitalism is a failed system. It's extremely successful.
>crony capitalism is just a little bit worse
It's a lot a bit worse. It doesn't encourage new businesses. It just makes sure the established corporations with political influence maintain their status quo. It's a bastardized version of capitalism that only helps the rich.
>still, both are bad for you, and more importantly, bad for me.
Capitalism is why we have the Internet, computers, and basically all the amenities we enjoy in modern life. Just be glad we're at a point in time where we have worker protections.
Barbossa
I just hate immigration so I consider myself right. The import of a dumber, far more primitive and violent culture has to be the single most retarded thing the western world has committed upon itself in the 21th century.
The arguments for immigration all end on some emotion rather than what is logical and practical. The left constantly feeds lies to the public about how immigration "impoves economy and helps off-set lower birth rates" when in truth, immigration causes only more stress on the system and the economy. It also creates stress in culture, confusing the people and making them lose a sense of identity. The unity and bond of a nation is splintered. People are left to fend for themselves as the values among fellow citizens are divided.
I don't understand how anyone rational can consider themselves leftists when leftist politicians and ideals are directly causing the death of the western civilizations.
>>27553057
Oh, hey, Chad, I see you're still getting BTFO.
>>27554788
No, I can not go and work my own property, anywhere, I will be arrested if I try.
>>27554808
Yes, some people can be a mini-capitalist, a tiny little small business owner, not "anyone", not even fucking close to "anyone", but some, yes, and they are only a very small part of the problem, the problem is the ruling class and the system that makes exploitation possible as a whole.
No, workers, researchers, producers, and thinkers, are why we have computers, the internet, and everything else, the ruling class, like always throughout history, merely took the lion's share.
>>27554828
I'd rather the death of America than the slavery of the entire species.
im personally a racist and a nazi
>>27554622
>I can't point you to that, we're aiming for a future society, something that hasn't actually been done yet believe it or not, so, it's a little unfair to say it hasn't worked as well when we haven't really been given a fair shot at doing it.
Yeah because capitalism isn't working right?
I'll give you that its unfair because honestly right now you don't have a choice. You play the money game or you're a rogue state like North Corea who makes their money off of being a drama queen and criminal acts.
The weakness of the capitalist system we have now is that if you are not working and advancing your skills(i.e a slave of corporations) you are always losing. If you choose to remain at a job and not learn new things to get higher on the totem pole you're working at mcd's and you won't be able to participate. Most people are at the 30-40k a year range so the theory is that if more people did things like learn skills, advance their career, live below their means, etc. then capitalism would be rosy for everyone.
Things like healthcare will always be difficult. My opinion is that putting insane regulations makes it even harder for sensible and safe regulations to exist and increase the costs both physical and financial all around for everyone.
People are merely not responsible nor competent, hence the leftist mindset of catering to everyone and giving them everything you can to the point of bankrupting the nation.
>>27553187
Lol you idiot. Even the Middle Ages were warmer than now. Also, isn't it your socialist paradises (like China) that pollute the most?
>>27551806
rolling for JUST cuck my shit up my dudes
>>27554860
Get raped Laurie worst fucking character
>No, workers, researchers, producers, and thinkers, are why we have computers, the internet, and everything else
Which were either the result of them working at a business which invested into making them happen or people hired to do work for the Government which has money to put into research thanks to a booming economy.
>>27554859
Oh, it's working, working to make slaves of us all.
And we don't want to just keep giving shit away, that's not what socialism is, I say this almost every post now, you niggers.
>>27554860
China is Capitalist.
>>27554921
They worked at those businesses because Capitalism doesn't allow any alternatives to Capitalism. The leech shouldn't take credit for the work of it's host.
ITT: Leftists BTFO as always. Will they ever win?they can't
>>27554853
>No, workers, researchers, producers, and thinkers, are why we have computers, the internet, and everything else, the ruling class, like always throughout history, merely took the lion's share.
The closest I can even get to agreeing with the statement that average people made it is the example of GPS. It was made by a bunch of government grants. Even then, it was still made ubiquitous through the efforts of merchants. Or you could see the example of Ben Franklin, who let anyone manufacture his invention of the potbelly stove to help save lives(the most common cause of death was burning to death by lighting your oven back then). Even then it was investors and businessmen that made it popular and eventually cheaper.
Them getting the lion's share of the profits is the result of the system and it is necessarily a small group of people who get that. Along the way they hire people and drop money, then make investments in other companies and expand the economy for everyone. Everyone can't be in their position, but they help many people get more than they had before and this process repeated many times has lead to the sheer massive amount of choice even the most pleb amongst us have today. Its not perfect, but of course the majority who are dumb and unambitious are not going to receive the purchasing ability to get a boat that can house other boats.
>>27554465
That's why tax havens exist, that's why tax shelters exist, that's why more US corporations are moving their headquarters overseas, to avoid taxes.
But it's pretty deceitful to live in a country, and enjoy all the benefits of living in that country, and keep your money elsewhere.
There are countries with no income taxes due to oil revenue (United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Brunei) and other countries with no incomes taxes (Cayman Islands, Bermuda, The Bahamas).
We live in a globalized world where you can make money from nearly any person on the planet. That's why national borders mean less and less, whether it's due to the transmission of money, or the transmission of people, or the transmission of diseases.
>>27554940
>The leech shouldn't take credit for the work of it's host.
Isn't the guy funding the research the host? Without the host, the leech cannot survive. Without funding, the scientist cannot do science.
Also, whenever someone mentions a socialist state, you commies always go on about how it was just a capitalist state in disgusise. Truth is that whenever mankind has attempted a socialist state, it has failed miserably. Communism is fantasy. It's like believing in Middle Earth.
>>27554940
How could you possibly make a truly socialist society come about? Property has been a part of human society since before civilization. You'd need a complete overthrow of not only the government, but all business to make them collectively owned by the people. Even if you managed to do that you'd just get into an even worse situation where the Government eventually becomes even more intertwined with big business than it is now.
>>27554940
>They worked at those businesses because Capitalism doesn't allow any alternatives to Capitalism. The leech shouldn't take credit for the work of it's host.
So under your system the guy who came up with the creation of artificial diamonds while working for his company should be able to walk away and start his own company?
And anyone that makes a sale should get the full profit of that sale even if they didn't put any money into stocking the product in the first place?
should the guy who sells your house for you get the profit for selling it too?
>>27554940
>China is Capitalist.
Ok kid.
And North Korea, the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact bloc, Cuba, the Red Khmer etc. all were capitalistic of course.
>>27551806
My life, too, was empty as a socialist/feminist/vegan/anti-racist entitled weakling. I felt jealous of proper, manly and strong conservative men, but hated the politics. I felt jealous for those who had proper moral systems based on virtues instead of just lazy entitlement; those had beliefs in traditions that mattered. But then I discovered that the answer, as always, lies with a Jewish Marxist - here's a video by political philosopher and Oxford professor Gerald Cohen called "Rescuing Conservatism". It's basically him explaining how all the positive aspects of conservatism can be 'rescued' and combines with leftist politics to make a better, stronger Leftism without having to belive that the Earth is 5000 years old or that poor people and blacks are inferior. Noam Chomsky, another Jewish socialist (of course) also espouses this kind of conservative leftism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQA_PghU0H4
Feels good man.
>>27554516
>ya but when that number steadily increases to where you just have people leeching and nobody contributing is the type of stuff that could turn a prospering nation into a shitty third world country.
Capitalism is leeching. A good capitalist leeches off the workers, skims it off the top. That's what Wall Street and the financial sector do. They don't "contribute" anything, they are parasites who act like vampires.
>please kill yourself i'm not even kidding you seem like the typical 'muh socialism college student' who's going to crash and burn in the real world.
This "globalized" world won't even last another 200 years. The Industrial Revolution started 200 years ago. And the planet hasn't been this warm in 66 million years. That is the real world. The human-invented world of money and fiat currency just floating and not grounded in anything is not "the real world." Rising CO2 levels is the real world. Rising sea levels swamping coastal cities, droughts, famines, climate refugees, that will be the real world.
Never feel sorry for billionaires. Feel sorry for the people working in sweatshops that pad their wallets. Feel sorry for the people who bought "shares" in a "corporation" in the hopes of selling those shares to someone dumber than them.
Real capitalists don't bring people goods and services. Goods come from the Earth itself, and workers often gather them. But a capitalist finds people to do the work for them, and keeps the money for themselves.
>>27555057
Not him but there are plenty of socialist governments out there. Look at Venezuela. Its just really shitty. The U.S in my opinion is one of the most successful socialist governments because it manages to do very well in comparison to other socialist governments because money printers and federal debts.
>>27554940
What happens if I'm relaxing on a nice piece of land, and a bunch of loud, obnoxious, drug-addled partying faggots come along and I want them to leave? Do I have to tolerate their presence? Is that what would happen in this society? Since I can't own private property, and all. Except, what you didn't expect, is that I have a gun lying around, and my hatred of these people is particularly intense, so I just start killing them. Is your local Socialist Sheriff going to come rolling along to put a stop to me?
>>27555058
Actually, it is has the second largest number of billionaires in the world.
>>27551806
>being a leftist means you can't be masculine or responsible
>being a conservative means you are masculine and responsible
Please stop this meme.
t. Leftist that isn't a piece of shit
>used to be depressed and sad all the time
>posted feel threads
>went over to /pol/ for habbenings
>go to trump threads
>start liking trump
>get the trump books
>feel pretty good
>don't feel depressed anymore
>got a job after being 26 and jobless for my whole life
>started going out and enjoying life more
>lost 28 lbs
>about to go back to school and finish a degree
>depression has been gone for months
>usually it comes back after a few days
>some girls striked up a conversation with me yesterday and I didn't spaghetti
It's changing my life.I have been missing out but it feels great.
>>27555185
It's almost like not being a self-hating gender-fluid leftist does good things to the mind!
Whatever ideology puts you on the anti-depressive pills isn't worth it.
>>27554545
>Its based in profit and causes an insane level of industry.
Yeah, and that insane level of industry, growth for growth's sake, growth in the sake of quarterly profits, has pretty much triggered runaway climate change.
>>27554940
>Oh, it's working, working to make slaves of us all.
"Whaaaaa, I have to get up and go to work! Woe is me!"
>China is Capitalist.
No they're not. There is no explanation even needed to refute such an asinine claim.
>>27551806
Literally none of that has to do with conservatism or liberalism.
>>27555185
The effects of a strong leader.
>>27554682
>How did America become the most powerful nation in the world?
They survived WW2.
>>27555058
There are variaties of both capitalism and socialism, and of course different definitions of what "capitalism" and "socialism" entails. China has both, at least by some definitions. David Harvey outlines this in chapter 5 of his book A Brief History of Neoliberalism (called Neoliberalism 'with Chinese Characteristics'). Have it for free my nignog: www.sok.bz/web/media/video/ABriefHistoryNeoliberalism.pdf
Personally I would define 'true socialism' in the old, purist sense: a society where a free association of people together own and democratically control the means of production. I'd also say that any society which has aspects of collective ownership and democratic control has some socialist tendencies.
I would define true capitalism as a society where the means of production are privately owned and controlled not democratically but also privatley (driven by the profit motive). I'd also say that any society where the law of value holds has capitalist tendencies.
Pic somewhat related: how socialism has "failed".
>>27553116
Yeah, the economy is kind of everything. When there's more money you have better quality of life, retard.
>>27555173
>I got butthurt by the truth.
fix'd 4 u
>>27554747
>Then how were companies in the mid 20th able to provide such high wages? The average American in the 50s could support an entire family with a factory job. What has changed since then?
Because NAFTA didn't exist and manufacturing jobs hadn't all been outsourced to Mexico or China by corporations seeking cheap labor in order to maximize profits aka fiat currency which now floats unconnected to anything or anyone, in order to please shareholders who gamble on the human fantasy known as the stock market which holds that a person can "own" one millionth of a corporation, which isn't even liable for what the people in it even do?
>>27555173
Well, my comrade, you must understand: if an ideology is bad for the working class, the ruling class must make them support it anyway somehow. Since no actual argument will do, you need emotional hooks. What better way than to convince people that supporting their own interests makes them "weak" or "unmanly"? Or a "sjw", "numale", "cuck", "beta", etc. which are the memes we use on this site.
Combine this with a dismissive attitude and refusal to engage in debate or learn about leftist philosophy, where just insulting and bullying is considered a valid response, and you're set.
Pic related. Actual working class men who joined unions and fought for socialism where manly and tough as nails, while the capitalists where frail dandys who never worked an honest day in their lives.
>>27555322
>mfw he actually believes that
>>27554788
>Employees don't incur the risk of starting their own business. They're trading wealth for security. I have no problem with CEOs taking as much money as they want. If the employees don't like it they can work somewhere else.
Oh please. It's not like most CEOs "take the risk of starting their own business" either. A CEO can even fuck up a company, and still get million dollar bonuses.
The whole attitude of "if you don't like it you can go somewhere else" might just backfire on the rich one day. Violent revolutions can happen.
>>27551872
>m-muh miwitawy budget
social programs account for a much larger share of the budget than the military does
>>27555372
>i'm too retarded to understand simple logic
>>27554808
>Capitalism is why we have the Internet, computers
You say that like it's a good thing.
Unless some AI "solves" climate change, it will only get worse.
Capitalism is inherently exploitative. Why people love their corporate overlord so much more fiercly than their fellow man, I will never understand. Do any of you think that this institution of greed you spend your time supporting cares even a little about you? To capitalism you're just a meat-bag filled with labour-time, that they'll gladly throw away for anything else that can work, be that some poor sod in Taiwan or a robot. Meanwhile, socialism was supposted to be about all of us sticking together and taking care of one another. But apparently that sort of power and control over your own life and destiny means one is "cucked". Yeah, working your ass off for a shit pay all your life and being so much in debt anyway that banks own your life, that ain't being "cucked" at all, that's being a "real man".
>>27555392
t. dumbass
>>27555389
>Violent revolutions can happen.
you know that you're rich by the rest of the world's standards, right? Maybe some starving africans should come and take your house from you you privileged shitlord
>>27555358
Leftists do try to debate, but they always bring up the same stupid arguments that have been refuted a million times over, so they get BTFO pretty fast. The insulting is there because of that--those old arguments are a joke and it's silly to keep using them.
>>27554860
February was the warmest month in recorded history, climate experts say
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/mar/20/february-was-the-warmest-month-in-recorded-history-climate-experts-say
What we're doing to the Earth has no parallel in 66 million years, scientists say
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2016/03/21/what-were-doing-to-the-earth-has-no-parallel-in-66-million-years-scientists-say/
Antarctic model raises prospect of unstoppable ice collapse
http://www.nature.com/news/antarctic-model-raises-prospect-of-unstoppable-ice-collapse-1.19638
But whatever. If you don't care you're either a useful idiot of Big Oil, or you have no kids and therefore no stake in the future of humanity.
And China is state capitalist, and their industry (which increased when every corporation outsourced the manufacture of their goods there) is merely imitating the carbon pollution of Western nations.
China is actually a paradise for Republicans, since China has lax or little environmental regulations.
>>27554921
The private sector didn't invent the Internet. Government did.
Although the private sector has been able to profit off the Internet.
>>27554808
>Anyone can be a capitalist
Petite bourgeoisie is not haute bourgeois.
A capitalist is not "someone who own a business", even small buisness owners. Those small guys are part of a different class (petite bourgeoisie). A capitalist is someone who owns and controls the means of production and makes their money by systematically paying employees less than the actual value of their labour.
Also, yes anyone can be a capitalist. That's what makes it capitalism and not feudalism; it doesn't care about your heritage or anything else like that, it breaks down those old institutions. But "anyone" doesn't mean "everyone". The vast majority will never become capitalists. It's a race where only less than 1% can win while the rest suffer and those who lose die - that anyone has technically has a chance to be among those lucky 1% does not make the race ethically justifiable or the suffering of the losers (who never had a choice in joining the race) any less real.
>>27555523
Did you miss the part about Government having more money to spend on research as the result of a strong economy?
>>27555442
The problem is that socialism has never worked in the long term. It sounds good, but just isn't realistic. The right knows that not everyone can be a top dog; it's just a fact of life. The left struggles fruitlessly to deny that though.
>>27553115
I don't even bother arguing anymore
>>27555442
Why, I love that picture. But the author forget that the creation and selling of a large amounts of product requires a work of lots and lots of people. Most of them do not create product directly, but do stuff like transportation, accounting, other office working. There is the work of engineers and researchers. They all want their salary too. There is also a need to get storage space, an office(or multiple of them), other means of work. And don't forget the need to find clients, to buy materials, to do law stuff, to organize the people working in a company. Capitalist does not get most part of the combined product.
>>27555491
>Leftists do try to debate, but they always bring up the same stupid arguments that have been refuted a million times over, so they get BTFO pretty fast. The insulting is there because of that--those old arguments are a joke and it's silly to keep using them.
Except they haven't been refuted at all. Not in the sense that one would demand of literally anything else. But since we have a capitalist hegemony going on, the rules change: the Left has to have perfect arguments and bullet-proof evidence, with anything less than that being equated with a loss of the debate. Meanwhile the Right can lie, use meme answers, plain make shit up or rely on ad hominems, and this is acceptable.
Any actual understanding of economics and political economy would lead one to say about contemporary capitalism "this shit is fucked". One might disagee on the causes and the solutions, but one would see that the systems is fucked. Anyone who supports the current state of affairs is sadly just brainwashed.
>>27555322
The economy is not everything. And btw, people just print more money now. That's why there's inflation, that's why everything costs more.
>>27555372
nice counter argument.
ITT: liberals don't know how to defend their political philosophy.
>>27551963
This
I was born to suffer
>>27555610
The economy is literally all that matters when it comes to politics, once you have a better economy, you have better standards of living. And I'm anti fiat currency, so I don't know what you're trying to prove with the inflation thing.
>>27552161
> Traditional gender roles make people happier.
Being part of a religious sect also does. And so do drugs.
>>27555590
Not the guy you're talking to, but your comment seems well crafted, so here's a question.
When I look around me (in Australia), it seems to me that most people aren't doing anything productive at all, huge numbers of people are working in jobs where they're mostly shuffling paper, basically. There isn't a whole lot of 'creating' wealth going on - as far as I can see most of the wealth seems to be coming from technological innovation, the energy that comes from petroleum (which relies on regional security), and biology (most people are being energised in large part by protein from animals). When labour comes into the equation it's mostly overseas.
So how does this fit in with Marxism? The wealth isn't all coming from labour, labour almost seems to be increasingly less of a source of wealth.
>>27555583
It's a simplification. All those people are workers too, and involved in making the final product as much as the manual laborer. Some marxists have argued that some positions (such as legal services) don't create value as such, but act as a 'support mechanism' that enables the whole thing to work - this is just nitpicking IMO, since both forms of work are ultimately necessary to get the product out on the market.
The point is that the only way someone can afford the get a facotry, transport, etc. and all that set up - i.e. have the means of production - is if one exploits the labour of others. There is no way that a single person can, through hard work and saving, save up enough money to afford that. Not in a thousand lifetimes. In order to make it, and become a capitalist, you'd have to turn your money into capital (and hence exploit the labour of others) at some point, even it's in a small way such as investing in stocks of starting a small company with a handful of employees.
This leads us to the question "how does one BEGIN this circle, i.e. get enough money in the first place?". The answer lies in so called "primitive accumulation" (more accuratley called 'original accumulation'). This has largely been a violent and non-democratic process, and to some degree contitues to be so.
>>27555590
> One might disagee on the causes and the solutions, but one would see that the systems is fucked. Anyone who supports the current state of affairs is sadly just brainwashed.
No doubt that the current state of affairs is fucked. We're living in a Keynesian crony state. The solution is to go further right and to embrace truly free markets, not further regulation and redistribution.
>>27555654
drugs don't make people happier in the long run. There's nothing wrong with traditional gender rolls, people should be free to do as they please.
>>27551963
Comrade, turn to analytical marxism. There you will find what you seek. Read the wiki at least, bro.
>>27555467
Everything's relative. But the gap between the average CEO and the average worker is still bigger than the gap between the average worker and a starving African.
Do you know that one of the only things preventing violent revolutions are massive fucking oceans?
But starving Africans can cross the Mediterranea Sea well enough. The migrant hordes are already invading Europe, and climate change will only lead to more and more climate refugees.
>>27555590
Just in response to the image you posted.
If the workers are capable of running buisness, why don't they?
>>27555537
But I thought privatization was always the answer? I thought the private sector will step up to always provide what people want or need?
>>27555685
See? Even the most rightest of right wings sees that there's something wrong. BTW, look into agorism and mutualism for some free-market based systems that are still leftist. "Markets Not Capitalism" is a great book on this, which I will now give to you for free familia: http://radgeek.com/gt/2011/10/Markets-Not-Capitalism-2011-Chartier-and-Johnson.pdf
(Please note that by "capitalism" they mean "this current bs" and not "a completely free market")
>traditional gender rolls
pic related
Also, which tradition?
>>27555389
>A CEO can even fuck up a company, and still get million dollar bonuses.
brb starting my own business. I'll automatically make millions!
Fuck off retard. If I start a business and pour my life savings into it then I'll take as much fucking money as I want to. I'd also pay my employees well to keep it successful.
>>27553400
>Slimy
Opinion, but even if he is the other candidates are even more slimy. Hillary is the slimiest candidate in history.
>Racist
Trump has not said one thing that is racist.
>Insecure with masculinity
He used that "issue" with Rubio to troll the media and get in the headlines again. He literally got the media to talk about his dick, many liberals would agree that that may have been Trump's goal all along.
>Wants aristocracy
How? He wants money out of politics. He agrees with Bernie on banning superpac political donations. Trump's tax plan would also help the poorest of the poor the most.
>>27555683
> This leads us to the question "how does one BEGIN this circle, i.e. get enough money in the first place?"
There are things called "investments", if you don't know. You borrow money from someone in exchange of equity and start your business.
There is also an idea of multiple professionals becoming co-founders of a company by combining their saved money.
Both of these ways require a lot of skill and planning, and people who succeed in them deserve what they reap.
>>27555499
>in recorded history
Well congrats, I was talking about the Middle Ages.
>Big Oil
No, I think you we need to get rid of fossil fuels. First of all, because it won't last forever, and second, because we indirectly fund terrorism and Islamism by buying from the Saudis and other Arab countries.
>China is state capitalist
They made some reforms towards market economy, yes, but they're not actually capitalistic (that would be Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore). They're closer to third way economics like in National Socialist Germany (e.g. market mechanics, still a lot of central planning, state always has the last say, no unions)
>>27555157
Nice to see that there was no answer. I'll take that to mean that killing hedonists is fair game in the Socialist Society.
>>27555717
This is complicated, but has to do with everything from how education works, how inheritance works and nepotism is buisiness, to how businesses are set up (a corporation will always attract more capital than a cooperative because of the limited responsibility). Capitalist corporations will also, ultimatley be better at being capitalist than any worker's cooperative, which would either have to compromise with its values or lose in the competitive market. In the end, though, any workers who does this (and some do) will just become another capitalist. There is no world in which everyone can be a capitalist either - that SOME people can win a rigged contest in which there are always losers who suffer does not justify the contest.
>Liberals complain all the time about how the US buys oil from Saudi Arabia, which supports terrorists.
>Trump says he would stop buying oil from Saudi Arabia.
>Liberals freak out, say this is a bad idea.
KEK
>>27551806
You're right in that the media and schooling system has fed you shit for many, many years, and that a healthy masculinity is important.
There's no need to be conservative for that, nor bring your goddamn political ideas into the matter. I am left wing, and I still appreciate others' success, in fact I encourage it. In the end, it's not about cold hard equality, but about bringing the best out of mankind.
It's just that I believe that society has a duty to give everyone a fair chance at it. Everyone deserves their shot at a career, regardless of where they were born or how they were raised. Everyone deserves the chance to be cared about, everyone deserves a chance to develop their potential regardless of their social standing.
Your heart's in the right place, anon, and some of your advice is very useful. You've learned to own yourself and that's important.
But blaming left wing for your mistakes is shallow and stupid and will get on your way. I don't care if you believe in right wing policies or whatever, but don't shove your shit into someone else's doorstep, it's not polite.
What's ma name whats ma name
>>27555871
When did the liberals started to care about not supporting terrorists?
>>27555883
Your name is Cindy.
>>27555786
Most CEOs in this day and age didn't start the company they run (successful companies tend to outlive their founders). And boardmembers just decide to throw money at them, regardless of how the company performs.
>>27555610
If they print more money that means the value of it goes down.
>>27555893
It's an impossible situation for them. If they say they support buying oil from Saudi Arabia, then they support terrorists. If they say that we should not buy oil from Saudi Arabia, then they agree with Trump.
Many liberals do support terrorists though, you're right. Liberal policies on refugees have directly allowed thousands of ISIS militants to enter Europe undetected.
Liberals would rather die than be called a racist. See: Paris, Brussels
>>27555948
Most CEOs do not own their companies either.
>>27554232
This, Frank Zappa knew this, consrvative doesn't mean Republican.
>>27555984
Yes. Printing money leads to inflation.
The argument was that when there's more money, there's better quality of life. But that's not necessarily true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation_in_Zimbabwe
>During the height of inflation from 2008 to 2009, it was difficult to measure Zimbabwe's hyperinflation because the government of Zimbabwe stopped filing official inflation statistics. However, Zimbabwe's peak month of inflation is estimated at 79.6 billion percent in mid-November 2008.
People have better quality of life when the cost of goods represents a lower percentage of their income.
>>27552632
You obviously don't realize how much work it is to shop for, prep, cook, and clean for most meals. If you are coming home at 6, you can expect at least an hour of work for all of that, even after you've worked all day.
Most people are lazy and will make enough money to just eat out or order
>microwaving tendies isn't cooking
>>27555845
>Capitalist corporations will also, ultimatley be better at being capitalist than any worker's cooperative
You just said everything you needed to say right here. This is the only reason why workers cooperatives aren't wide spread, and it has nothing to do with inheritance and all that bullshit, since you can just go ahead and make a co-op willy nilly.
All marxist beliefs serve to do is to bring everyone down to the level of the laborer. Stop trying to make everyone's quality of life worse for the sake of equality and fairness. In a capitalist system, everyone gets more money, and everyone is richer.
The economy is not a pie chart.
>>27551839
Look up the mesning of conservatism
