Normies lie to other people

robots only lie to themselves

r u AYYWEED LMAO high?

because i am rn and this seems like something a high person would write

Lying is deemed a social skill that greater society values but does not let you in on,

kind of like fight club

>>26659399
Nice dubs desu.

Current theory is we evolved speech as a means to communicate locations of food and hazards. Misinformation here results in the harm or death of the recipient.

As social animals we relied on correct information for our survival and this is branded on our psyches. We implicitly hate and shun liars and betrayers.

An interesting thing you can observe in small children is that they will believe anything you tell them. Because classically their survival depended on it.

>>26659651

but when entire civilizations are built around certain values, that are pushed into you from a young age, and severely punished when they are violated (unless you have corrupt connections)
how was one supposed to learn, unless there was a critical mass of corruption foreign to the civilization that infiltrated and took it over, alienating the original culture and values

>>26659715
It predates organised civilization and was set in us before we made the move from hunter-gather to static farming.

Social groups would have been no larger than 50 people.

Humanity predates civilization by a long time.

>>26659831

so would lying be a way to divert competition away from resources?

>>26659905

could this increasing trend mean there is an underlying fear that there is going to be a breakdown of society

>>26659926

and the r9k phenomenon, with all it s problems, is other people judging whether we could survive, and therefore worth saving and sharing resources with?
and because of the common demographics upbringing, r9k has been sheltered and not raised for a potential breakdown, but rather to be reliant on "jobs" and "marriage" and "morality"

>>26659980

which would clearly explain male. female relationships for those under 30 in the 21st century, and girls are just not sure whether they should go with what they were raised with by their conservative parents, or if they should revert to primal instincts

>>26660060

and instead of hunting and gathering, which is competition, farming has led to the concept of "jobs" and employment and marriage and "civilization"

>>26660100

to root out weakness, we play games with one another in jobs and relationships to root out weakness out of fear that there will not be enough resources. And in order to optimize our survivability, we lie and work with others to lie together in order to secure what we want, kind of what happens when you are employed

when you think of "robots"

robots are created by someone else,

and more importantly, they are PROGRAMED to be a certain way

society raised us to be good, be honest and not to lie

>>26660165
You're very hung up on this deception business.

I think of it this way. Civilization is an aberration. A surprise. There was no prompt for it and now we are off the deep end in terms of being shaped by our environment.

Really we can do anything we want now. Become as evil and foul as we like. There is no bottom. Doesn't that make it more important to be truthful and respectful? To preserve the values that made us?

>>26660337

it is, but I believe, at least in "the west" we have reached a critical mass of people being deceptive, distrustful and manipulative

Y'all would've fun while reading nietzsche

>>26660382
I'm a westerner myself and I see people who have beliefs of things they haven't seen, but still feel the need to relay through speech.

These people do not think they are lying. They are simply misinformed.

If people believe their own lies are they lying? Our Law says they aren't.

All we can do is educate eachother and be wary of accepting information we can't verify with our experience.

>>26660382

and in part we have reach that point because those who raised us did not see this coming, or were raised themselves to put too much trust in things that have now been proven to be distrustful, and were in denial over the last 20 or so years

bump,me

>>26659399
I feel like you might be glorifying the robot a bit. Normies are shit but robots aren't exactly paragons either. Existential dread is definitely more multi-faceted than being a societal reject but I can see the influence. As to why there is a robot/normie divide much lies in the definition of the two, in order to spot differences and stuff.

>>26661835

I think it comes down to how we were raised as children and the social/ cultural expectations that we grew up with.

if you are opposed to these values you might call it "brainwashing" or "conditioning" or "encoding"

this board revolve around sex, marriage an jobs in "the west", which has for the most part embraced varying forms of capitalism and right wing conservative culture up until say the 1950s

and that left wing progressive counter culture really began in the 1800s with the changes that came with industrialism and marxism, which both challenged the old "conservative" monarchies and religious cultures regarding sex, marriage and employment that many today would deem too extreme, but was practiced by the current generations grandparents and passed down to their parents who either rejected it in the 1950s and 60s, become communists immigrating from the east and hippie flower children in the 60s or 70s,
or the parents toned down some of it but passed a good chunk of it onto the other half of the generation.

the counter culture became influential in the media and education, which really took off in the 80s and 90s in youth culture shared by todays under 30 crowd, who also saw the rise of the internet.

however, there is a current part of the under 30 crowd who had parents from the conservative side of the 20th century, and they sought to shelter their children, current generation millennia's, and raised them to become the demographics that inhabit this website and all the personal stories that comes with it.

however, I think it is safe to say the counter culture has already reached a critical mass of millennia's, and those who were relatively religious/ conservative/ introverted are now ostracized by societies new expectations, rules and social norms that were either not tolerated or fought against by their parents and grandparent generations


whew.

FYI i am a history student, a news junkie and kind of an r9k, I think too much about this

>>26659651
And yet, children making shit up is considered a developmental milestone. From fake crying, to completely made up bullshit about friends that don't exist, all the way to blaming things on siblings to avoid trouble. Children don't believe things because they're somehow genetically wired for truth, they believe things because they trust the person saying them (ie an adult that has authority tells them something).

Children lie, and they understand other people lie to them. Go into a kindergarten class and tell them the sky is lime green with polka dots and they'll pretty much all yell that it's not. Hell, they'll even do that to their parents. Lying is as built-in to humans as walking upright and using vocalizations to communicate.

We rely on our ability to lie to reduce individual danger by sending the idiots in ahead of us to test if there are tigers in that bush.

>>26662127

but in the West, loving parents don't lie to their children, and they teach them that society is stable and liars will be rooted out with poor jobs, no GF/BF and will not get away with crimes

>>26662113
the industrial revolution was a mistake

most of us would be happier as peasants toiling in the fields without a care about the outside world, and guarranteed a young wife

>>26662127
>>26662176

but you are correct on every single thing.

the "developmental milestones" and PC culture has gone overboard. We are in a culture that rewards degeneracy and bad behavior, you can get away with lying and are rewarded

the business concept of "screw up move up" in pretty standard in the government now

and parents can no longer control their children, and the way children treat each other is disgraceful

>>26662474

but we needed that to build weapons to fight against tyranny, to become independent enough to grow larger amount of food and tend to our smaller and smaller plots of land efficiently. tyranny was going to fund science no matter what, they have money, they are board, and want more power.

look at serfdom in Russia and Germany, which is where marxism took root in, they had the biggest problems growing food and feeding their populations, and developed strong militaries regardless. Germany was the industrial capital followed by Britain, (which was a safe haven as an island for scientists) , and then russia who was one of the last to abolish serfdom in 1861, and tried to jump straight to industrialism and communism without an agriculture base or stable society, economy

>>26662176
You are sorely mistaken. In the west, parents tell kids to be one way, and demonstrate to be another. It's been like this since forever and it's how you teach the most important lesson of "don't talk about it because if you're caught you're in trouble", otherwise known as "don't get caught". I'm not surprised that robots think they've been taught only half the lesson they were given. You all must think something really weird is meant when people talk about losing their "innocence" or something similar. It's a euphemism for learning how to be dishonest and that it's done by nearly everyone, except the few kids at school that act "nerdy", tattle, and basically follow all the rules even when they don't make logistical sense, which is why they get bullied into hating themselves and everyone around them.

It's because they lack the ability to learn something so incredibly intuitive and fundamental for everyone else that they're completely distrusted and shunned.

>>26662909

this is where religion and sheltering comes in

some parents wanted to protect their kids in hopes that if other parents were doing the same, then society would have a net decrease in "badness" if you will, the "do as aI say not as I do" and "learn from my mistakes" attitude. The ends justify the means.

this again comes down to discipline and consequences that begins with parents, extents to school discipline, and is now being seen with the police.

>>26659399
virtually all of a robot's social problems stem from a failure to recognize deceptions, whether that failure arises from either an inability or unwillingness to do so.

If you are unable to recognize deception, then you are beyond hope.

If you are unwilling to recognize deception, perhaps out of some sort of misguided idealism, then in order to increase your ability to function socially, you need to shake yourself out of it and learn some new behavior patterns.

For one thing, you might benefit from practicing the proverb "trust no one".

>>26663496

And this is why the demographics of "The Red Pill"
is from a traditionally, right wing , quasi religious conservative background.

and the thing about TRP is people take it before ever even knowing it is a thing on the internet, which shows that many ARE CAPABLE of picking up on patters but we know it is a hard oil to swallow because it does go against idealism you were raised on.
But looking at this through the /pol lense, TRP mainly seems to be happening in "western society" And modern "western" idealism like what was advocated by American founding fathers/ French Revolution, and even Freemasons, dates back to at least the enlightenment, which in of itself is arguably built on Judeo Christian RELIGIOUS values

think of nationalism in the last 100 years, of childhood, of CONSEQUENCES of upsetting your "strict" parents vs what happened to other kids.

the consequences of going against society or religion, and how the handling of that has evolved

is it a coincidence that American Straight white males who come from right wingish backgrounds are facing this common dilemma?

>>26663654
>the enlightenment...arguably built on Judeo Christian religious values
Abrahmic religions are built on accepting things you cannot prove

the enlightenment is built on rejecting things that cannot be proven

the two movements are ideologically opposed, and one cannot be said to logically arise from the other

if anything, the rise of christianity in Rome interrupted the growth of Western civilization, at which point it stagnated until the enlightenment

>>26663801

yes and no, I see your point

In that religion was still held important and cited by thinkers, scientists and revolutionaries by the time enlightenment ideals were truly put into acton in the 1700s, it wasn't until the 1800s when scientific and industrial revolution (which really began in late 1700s) took off and people REALLY began questioning religion, which is when Marxism, Adam Smith, Ricardo, Nietzsche and countless other philosopher, thinkers, authors (particularly in Russia, Germany and UK for simplicity) came into being.

Oh and late 1800s we saw first wave feminism, imperialism golden age colonialism/materialism and eventually consumerism in the name of capitalism, AND the embracing of WESTERN CULTRE, VALUES AND MILITARY BY EAST
ASIA (which deserve their own thread and can be extrapolated to japanese culture in the last 100 years)

I do admit the one blindspot is the MIddle East, although I know a general history of it, I'm not familiar YET with all the philosophers and religion outside of Wahabism with Al Afghani, young turks/collapse of Ottoman Empire and Euro colonialism in Africa. Again, that deserves its own thread

>>26659399
I blame capitalism and market relations for this. You must sell yourself for higher price as possible. You must have pretty wrapping to attract consumers, be pretty and joyfull. But it makes a man empty inside, shallow machine who can only product and buy things- including himself and other people. All spheres of our lifes torning to big market working only by materialistic utilitarian ways- love, hobby, social life. We just thrown away everything that was looking useless, non-profiting , but now we paying the price for this

>>26664086

So is the r9k/Red Pill phenomenon the result of people who are unwilling to lie?

>>26664180
Red pill is bullshitty overused meme.
People just want to have something real, deep, honest,thinks to live for, to die for, not just postmodern fluid constructs and play

>>26664291

and are people on r9k and pol living up to that?

are they happy?

how are they going forward in the world?

are they concerned with being something they are not, like "normies" are?

that comes across as either a reluctance or a lack of knowledge of how to lie?

God is dead and we have killed him

>>26664720

Nice

And that leaves us with the ideas of The Last Man and the Ubermensch

r9k almost comes off at the Last Men in some senses