Why are creatures put on planets to play a millions upon million (if not billion) year long game of survival of the fittest? Why is it that all species have this exact same "conquer!"-mindset? When a species finally have managed to become the dominating, most intelligent and strongest group, then what? There must be some kinds of reward in the end. That is how we always think. When we hunt our reward is food. When we follow the "rules" of our species our reward is respect. But what is the final reward?
in other words, does anyone wanna discuss obscure shit like this with me
>>25294834
Truly, this strikes me as the type of question that might just not have an answer.
>>25294834
survival you dumbass
yes it's selfish, yes I don't like it
oh well that's life
>>25294834
Now watch this thread barely get any replies
Anyway, i think the reward is not getting extinct and life has no purpose unless we are beeing bred by some ayylmaos for some reason
>>25294834
Not everything plays for survival, but those that do survive and so make up the majority.
Not everything plays for reproduction, but those that do reproduce and so make up the majority.
>>25294834
How do we know it's not just a cycle and nothing really exists outside of our perceived reality? Does a video game character know they're being played in a controlled environment?
rat race
>>25294834
>Why is it that all species have this exact same "conquer!"-mindset?
they don't
only the ones worth remembering do
>>25294922
I know that, but I'm trying to think way above only the concept of survival right now. I'm thinking more of the fact that we are put here for a totally unknown reason. I'm thinking of why we are made to be controlled by nature as toy soldiers. Maybe it is not us that gets something out of this whole thing, but rather something or someone (not thinking about God) out there that does.
>>25294834
maybe we're slaves fighting in the colloseum universe for the demiurges amusement.
>>25294834
> survival of the fittest
darwin never actually said this. it was some other faggot that twisted his theory for a social agenda. competition is socially engineered (starting in school) because it keeps the plebs from gaining any power, keeps them squabbling among themselves (look at 4chan)
in experiment after experiment, co-operation instead of competition has shown to be more effective and beneficial for everyone involved
>>25294834
>When a species finally have managed to become the dominating, most intelligent and strongest group, then what?
Then we are the goal or target for a new, stronger, better species
>>25295045
you can just admit you have autism
>>25294834
When all the animals die and we are the only ones left we will result to cannibalism and eventually we will all be inbred. Inbreeding is what drives evolution as it causes more mutations so eventually all life on earth will be descended from humans. Basically it restarts evolution from humans.
>>25295045
But look at that school of fish for instance. They cooperate right? If they were alone in the water, they wouldn't survive, so they gather up and make large schools like that. However, a stronger, better competitor comes alone, and eats a shitload of those fish. The fish, being weaklings, swim around all confused, not knowing what to do as their school gets devoured. When the other animal leaves, there are much less fish than there were at the start, and they are scared and confused, while the other anime swims off with a full stomach.
Now tell me cooperation is better than competition.
>>25294834
>>25294922
>>25294882
>>25294964
>>25294966
>>25294980
>>25294967
>>25295139
>>25295052
>le the whole world is evil and bad and i'm the only one emlightened and euphoric enough to see this may may
>>25294834
>Why is it that all species have this exact same "conquer!"-mindset?
The ones that didn't got murdered by the ones that did. The conquer mindset makes progress, which is why it along with general aggression are attractive traits in men.
>>25295235
>I'm retarded
fuck off retard
>>25295265
Yes, I know that. Read the whole thread, or at least this >>25295007
>>25295316
Or maybe you're thinking way too into it. Maybe we're just doing what animals do, surviving and making progress over time.
>>25295235
How was >>25294882 "euphoric"? All he said is there might not be an answer, nothing neckbeardish about that.
>>25294834
>>25294834
>Why?
There's no fucking reason, plan or meaning.
We're just a series of chemical rections othat tarted by chance and happened to become self-sustaining - at least until a comet or some other equally random event blows us out oof the universe. We act the way we do because billions of years of natural selection have molded the chemical reactions into our brains into something with the urge to survive and prosper. We're not doing it for anything - wee're just doing it because our programmming tells us to.
>Final reward
top kek
The only fucking final reward is oblivion. Nothing. And your body slowly rotting away. The biological imperative may have driven you to surivive, prosper and compete, and may have urged you to pass on your genes to plenty of offspring. But whether you succeeded or not, it won't matter once your dead.
Just as there's no final reward for the individual, there's no final reward for the species. There's no such thing as 'strongest' for a species, there's no goal to be reached. It's just the same pointless drive that pushes the individuals forward.
At least that's what I believe. Makes life pretty depressing and completely invalidates any form of morality (which means I can't discuss it with anyone but my shrink) but I can't see evidence for anything else.
>Another Deep Thread
I hope this meme keeps on going.
>>25295385
>Makes life pretty depressing and completely invalidates any form of morality
It doesn't invalidate utilitarianism.
>>25295171
whats your point, i don't get it?
>>25294834
>Why is it that all species have this exact same "conquer!"-mindset?
Not all of them, I guess. I mean think about cockroaches. All they do is run, hide and eat the leftovers of every other species food. And they are EVERYWHERE.
If our ecosystem is managed by a natural "survival of the strongest / fittest" why are there so many weak species out there? Also the millions of weak humans passing their shitty DNA to their children, creating miserable beings doomed at birth.
Only an idiot would respond to this thread with a serious response
>>25294834
The reward is experiencing life and surviving as long as possible. That is basically it, but then again that is a subjective opinion.
I'm more or less curious what process allowed evolution to have such a specific goal of survival.
>>25295385
> We act the way we do because billions of years of natural selection have molded the chemical reactions into our brains into something with the urge to survive and prosper.
But where does that knowledge of needing to survive come from? Even if you can explain the psychological reasons why conscious beings want to survive, then explain why non conscious life forms evolve in order to survive.
You create superintelligent A.I. to replace you as the most intelligent, dominant species on the planet
>>25295385
>There's no fucking reason, plan or meaning.
You don't know that
>We act the way we do because billions of years of natural selection have molded the chemical reactions into our brains into something with the urge to survive and prosper.
And you do not think that is just a little mystical? That not only us, but ALL other species have the same mentality? Also the fact that all the things this mentality drives us to do clicks together?
>>25294834
The "reward" for survival is another day of not having to face the inevitability of non-existence.
In the end it's pretty pointless, but these are the cards that living creatures have been dealt; Staving off the inevitable is the best we can do.
>>25295414
Doesn't it?
Why should I care in the slightest about the 'greatest good for the greatest number' when the alternative is the 'greatest good for me'?
Obviously, yes, I want other people to act in a moral way. Outwardly I'll argue for a utilitarian world (or what other system of morality seems best at the time) but why should I actually believe in that system of morality and not simply seek to exploit it for personal gain?
>>25295603
>mystical?
mysterious*
![triangle-512[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/KbM1eoV.png "triangle-512[1].png")
*screams dimensionally*
>>25294834
> why
> game
> reward
this is just a humans sad attempt to write rules and meaning into chaotic, meaningless existence
read some nihilism until you drop this sad attempt which will only cause you frustration
this entire board is a bunch of losers attempt at "why", and "how can i change it", with no satisfactory answers coming up. those who have transcended just shitpost here
>>25295547
Cockroaches run, hide and eat the leftovers because of the bad sewer systems in America. They are still programmed to survive. They still procreate, hunt other bugs and fight in self defense. The facts that they got wings and a hard shell covering their body is proof enough that they and not useless bugs just wandering around.
>>25294834
>Why are creatures put on planets to play a millions upon million (if not billion) year long game of survival of the fittest?
nobody "put creatures on planets," it's all random chaos that led to their emergence and evolution
>Why is it that all species have this exact same "conquer!"-mindset?
no, the "mindset" is don't fucking die
>When a species finally have managed to become the dominating, most intelligent and strongest group, then what? There must be some kinds of reward in the end. That is how we always think.
intelligence isn't the goal. there isn't a reward. we think that there is a "reward" because we are ignorant apes, literally: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agAiIRkHn2o
>When we hunt our reward is food. When we follow the "rules" of our species our reward is respect. But what is the final reward?
there is no reward. the only reward is the reward of your corpse maggots that maggots get to eat after you die
>>25295769
Not once have I ever mentioned anything having to do with "changing it". I'm simply asking a question every human is curious about.
>>25295045
>darwin never actually said this.
Page 45 decent of man chapter 3.
"...All forms of life are in constant struggle for survival and supremacy. IT is the grand game of the survival of the fittest...."
>5th grade biology class reading a 100 year old book of foundational evobio.
>>25295878
*descent
>>25295045
>25295045
>false quotes by social "scientists" (responsible for mass genocide and social engineering -brainwashing-) are the ones perverting the beautiful and true understanding of biology that the darwinist school of biology set forth.
>>25295779
Killing smaller creatures and being secluded in a shell is hardly what I'd call a strong animal. Its basically just a repulsive creature good in avoiding danger and there we have it: a successful survivor passing their runaway genes through generations.
Does that sound like a good parallel to the human individuals of our society today?
(And what does America Sewer systems even have to do with anything? I'm not American BTW)
When it comes to the root of the question: what does it mean to be alive? There is one purpose that connects us with a one cell organism, that is to pass on our genes. But then again, what does it mean to pass our genes, to what ultimate purpose? I think ultimately it's about resisting time. Time makes everything decay and fall apart. Nature found a way to resist time. While our bodies can live 100 years at most, our genetic information can live theoretically forever. Our genes are on a quest for immortality, and we are tools to carry out that mission.
>>25295574
>I'm more or less curious what process allowed evolution to have such a specific goal of survival.
Thinking about evolution as having a goal is a mistake. It's just a random process, like gravity or a bushfire.
>But where does that knowledge of needing to survive come from? Even if you can explain the psychological reasons why conscious beings want to survive,
Our consciousness is just chemistry, the flow of neurotransmitters and electrical current. At the moost basic level these would have been simple rules like - if your chemereceptors indicate food may be in thiis direction move towards it. Our brains have simply become more complex (to help navigate the social environment, better find food in a complex seasonal landscape etc) and hidden the basic rules underneath a fog of emotions and 'personality'.
The reason this chemistry urges us to survive is because for generations, any creature born without the genes that shape that urge has not passed it's genes on to it's offspring.
>then explain why non conscious life forms evolve in order to survive.
A combination of random chance, unequal survival and the heritability of characteristics. They don't want to survive, but anything that doesn't 'act' in a way that encourages it's own survival won't reproduce and thus we don't see them..
>>25296056
>Our genes are on a quest for immortality, and we are tools to carry out that mission
our genes arent sentient, they arent on a 'quest' for shit. theyre just blueprints/instructions on how to build an organism
>>25295603
>>25295603
>You don't know that
No I don't. Maybe there is a cosmic plan. Maybe it's good, or maybe it's not. But in the end its invisible to us at the moment and I've seen no compelling evidence for it. In the end - isn't the possibility of an unknown plan just as meaningless as no plan at all? At last in terms of the impact on our lives?
>And you do not think that is just a little mystical? That not only us, but ALL other species have the same mentality? Also the fact that all the things this mentality drives us to do clicks together?
Not at all. It's simply the way things are. Of course all the species we see have the urge to survive - if they didn't have that urge they won't have survived for us to see them.
I'd be a lot more blown away if we came across a species without the urge to survive but was still around regardless.I genuinely don't know how thaat would come about.
As for everything clicking together .. if it didn't we'd be dead so of course it does. In any other situation we wouldn't be around to comment on it so it' only possible for us to exist in a world where it does all 'click together'
who fucking cares anymore, at least we have anime and cute anime girls
>>25296002
Never said they were strong animals, but evolving into getting a shell is a beginning.
Not all people are bothered by cockroaches, and not only America has got bad sewer systems. But humid, dark and dirty places attract cockroaches, which is why the hangout in many bad sewers. If your kitchen sink is connected to dark, dirty and humid sewers then you'll probably get some nasty roaches crawling from it.
>>25294834
there is no answer
there's not even a question, you just think there is
>>25296144
>>25296217
>>25296235
glad this dude is answering all the retardation
>>25295045
interesting post
>>25295603
The 'reason' may lay in the unknown (meaning you can't prove it false) or, it could that the urge to survive and prosper is a vital property for the majority of animals to have in a species. the species who didn't carry on this mentality don't pass on the genes/culture that made them that way.
Social creatures like humans are abit different. Some times it's best to have some individuals who breed and some who help the successful rearing of the generation bred. Usually the ones who one way or another help the breeders are vastly outnumbered by said breeders, they could also look exactly the same externally, but their different brain chemistry still influences their behavior. This means they are hard to observe in nature and we have less documentation confirming the exact nature of every social species, but they are likely to be there.
>>25295789
>it's all just random chaos
sure it is
Life this sophisticated, as advanced as organisms sharing ideas instantaneously despite being thousands of miles apart via hyper advanced communication systems are a result of "random chaos"
Millions of years of evolution on a rock that is statistically improbable on an infinite number of levels is random chaos
The teenage atheism phase is really cute if you stick around here long enough, I guess
I understand that you want to be meaningless
I know that it's so much easier to see no point in it all to justify your need to be average, below average, to influence absolutely nothing in your surrounding world
To be a pathetic little piece of shit who's greatest significance is to be a shitpost in the worlds of the people that are simply passing by; whose prime significance is to literally hold up the time of those who matter for the 2 or 3 seconds required to make sure they don't get hit by that car in that street that instant; to hold them up for those few moments so that they can survive and take us to where man needs to be.
Sure
Go on and keep being a piece of shit, believing that you aren't the strangest and most valuable fucking organism in the known universe. That you weren't literally derived from stardust
That, if deduced poetically, you aren't the manner in which the universe has chosen to express itself.
I feel you senpai.
It'll all be over soon.
>>25296377
this is some pretty top quality bait, you had me up until the "made of stardust" bit
9/10
>>25296442
Thank you.
I've been studying here for years.
>>25295045
>co-operation instead of competition has shown to be more effective
The large predators kick their asses so much that only spawns in the tens of thousand ranges will survive.
A family of a 100 small fish will be dead in a month.
It's also why we don't see any sea mammals smaller than Dolphins and Whales.
Their social co-operative nature sucks donkey cock. Only bulk is best.
>>25296377
>That you weren't literally derived from stardust
>That, if deduced poetically, you aren't the manner in which the universe has chosen to express itself
upboat for le ebin black science man maymay :^) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D05ej8u-gU
>>25294834
see your understanding of this topic is built around a common misconception about what evolution means. all it says is that if a organism posses a characteristic that is beneficial to its survival in its given environment, then there is a chance that characteristic will pass into future members of its given species/how characteristics alter and move through a species over time.
Nowhere does this mean these characteristics have to be extremes of physiological features nor even the "best of the best" possible physiological configurations for a organism.
like for example, lets say we have a saber tooth tiger with massive jaws, like it crushes its pry twice as fast, so that tiger is swimming in food/conquering the shit out of all the other saber tooth. well when it comes time for that motherfucker to breed if it turns out its offspring can't pass through the birth canal of most bitches due to the over sized jaws then that trait is a hindrance and will die out even though the one creature that made it to adulthood was fucking king of the cats.
or for another example, if you're the strongest fucking saber tooth and get all the tail, like breeding all the time then most of the little cats will be yours, but if there's also this weak ass little tiger on the side that can barley feed itself but that can also talks his way into prime female skirts. well some of those little cubs will be made of little weak cat genes as well. focus on how that does't mean with every generation that taking ability will improve, just that it only needs to meet a certain threshold( impressing bitches just long enough to get inside them) and it will hold. but the overall health of the race is maintain since most of the cubs are still being made from chad the tiger bloodline.
The lie that we are special and unique in the universe is only there to fit the narrative of the politicians and business executives and keep human civilization feeding into the system with their own hard work, think they are working to achieve something greater than just simply surviving on a rock floating through outer space purely out of chance instead of just digging their own graves and lining the pockets of politicians and CEOs, while they sit back and watch all of us slave away until we die.
/edgy
>>25296489
teachers notes:
> too try hard, write less and with worse structure
> too hard on the smug sarcasm like "sure" and "i feel you senpai"
> include an image for more attention
>>25295045
liberals are shitty biologists, you have been muted for 2 seconds because of this shit
>>25296377
You've misunderstood evolution m8. It's guided by random chance but that isn't the end of it. It's a combination of random chance, unequal survival and the ability to reproduce and imperfectly pass one's traits one to offspring. With those conditions in plce evolution is able to perform (apparent) miracles. Anyone who describes evolution of random ither doesn't understand it, or simply can't be bothered explaining the basics of elementary school biology.
>To be a pathetic little piece of shit who's greatest significance is to be a shitpost in the worlds of the people that are simply passing by; whose prime significance is to literally hold up the time of those who matter for the 2 or 3 seconds required to make sure they don't get hit by that car in that street that instant; to hold them up for those few moments so that they can survive and take us to where man needs to be.
I'm glad you think there's a plan buddy. I'm sure it makes life a whole lot more enjoyable.
>That you weren't literally derived from stardust
>That, if deduced poetically, you aren't the manner in which the universe has chosen to express itself.
Meaningless fucking drivel. I'm going to remember that last line next time I'm picking up a chick called Flower wearing tie-dye pants.
>believing that you aren't the most valuable fucking organism in the known universe
Of course I fucking am. I'm the only organism that matters. Hedonism bro, get on that shit.
Only involving this picture because hallucinogens can break down structured order of thinking and open your mind up to the possibility that there is nothing special about a life organism developing in a vast universe that has existed for billions and billions of years with infinite possibilities of random chance and choas instead of some sort of "god" actually designing everything to work in a way that was planned out.
If people realized that we aren't really special, then they might try to question the system of "why" we are here, instead of just seeing our short-term goals of consumption and reproduction. Even though it is quite remarkable that this can be the result of billions and billions of years and chemical reactions.
>>25294834
>But what is the final reward?
We figured this shit out in Aladdin man.
I
>>25296264
this desu familio
>>25296549
finally lets look at the cow, like any animal that breeds is effected by evolution but it also has overseers who keep it live and its offspring from getting eaten. so from that organism perspective there is no pressure to get smarter, faster or stronger to pass its genes onto the next generation. So for cows, the kinda get into equilibrium with their environment and don't change characteristics that much(except for characteristics that hinder their ability to breed, like being born sterile). which is why ear color will alter between generations of cows but nothing major. this is why great apes and monkeys are still about and haven't changed, since they are suited to their respective environments in their current forms(but they are still changing in sublets ways). and the reason humans altered was we left Africa and had to survive new challenges and environments we'd never seen before.
which brings me to your last question, basically all this means is that there is no "final reward" no end game(as far as evolution is concerned).
its just a way to describe how genes moves through populations over time. there is no end game in mind, we're just the product of our ancestors fucking around in new places, doing shit while avoiding outright dying(well long enough to knock up some chick).
>Why are creatures put on planets
em sigh, one of those:(
>does anyone wanna discuss obscure shit like this with me
this topic isn't obscure at all and I do, but at the risk of offending. I highly suspect such a discussion would only yield flames due to your opening stance of "creatures put on planets". so I will just bid you ado here and carry on my way.
>tfw "tfw no gf" is just a biological response by your body not being able to follow its genetic programming and goal of reproducing and spreading your genetics around the population
