There will be peace once everyone vows to stop reproducing and let the human race go into extinction.
>>24875238
you're telling us like we have a choice in the first place.
no because animals will just fuck each other and reproduce for the however many centuries required to evolve sentience again
you don't kill a tree by chopping off a few branches
you have to uproot the whole thing
that'd be pretty hard
it's organic man, it's not so simple
and who knows, if we extinguished life, it might just randomly appear again like it did the first time
after all it has all of eternity to do so
no, we're completely boned and there's no way out
Your opinion is ignorant and idiotic to boot.
No wonder you're a robot.
>>24875238
you mustve just watched true detective eh?
>>24875269
a better idea imo would be to eradicate life from the bottom of the food chain rather than the top (us)
like plants and single celled organisms and shit
but the ocean is massive how we gonna do dat
>>24875275
Have you ever thought how morally wrong it is to reproduce? I think you are the ignorant one that can't think past basic human instincts.
>>24875289
No, i had antinatalism views before i saw that show.
>>24875301
Morality is not a set thing and just because you hold these idiotic beliefs doesn't make them true. You're ignorant with a shitty worldview, a combination that just doesn't work. Why haven't you suck-started a shotgun yet and live up to your ideals?
>>24875343
You have so much to say, but nothing to back it up with. Go fuck yourself ignorant fool.
>>24875367
You too spout so much yet it all holds so little substance.
You're a fucking pissbaby that needs to keep your shit attitude to yourself. If you truly despise humanity, end your life, if not, you are yet another fool spreading folly.
Again, go suckstart a shotgun, plebe.
>>24875343
>claims that there is no such thing as a right or wrong view on morals
>then goes on to say that OP's moral views are wrong
having your cake and eating it too I see
really it comes down to whether or not you value consensual agreements over nonconsensual ones
the world might be okay to you but it might not be to your progeny and that's the problem
you're right that there is nothing objectively "wrong" with reproducing, but following that same logic there's also nothing objectively "wrong" with torturing someone, or potentially torturing them. You're willing to gamble.
>>24875238
Truer words have already been written anon. This realm of decay, misery and suffering has gone on long enough.
>>24875455
But anon, if at any point in time that they see fit that their existence is not pleasing, they can end it. That's the beauty of being a free, sapient creature. You choosing not to isn't my fault.
Weirdly elusive and illusive vibrations in this madness. God is an artist and this world is His Canvas. Who am I? What is Reality? There ain't no such thing as reality! Life is a sustained never-ending journey. An eternally wild and perpetually unpredictable capricious ride. It does not matter whether or not we have been placed on this Earth for a reason. The creed that truly holds value till the end is one in which we hold the power to pursue what we believe in. To actually feel the things that other people may only be seeing. Inexplicable circumstances of events have occurred. The infinite dimensions we visualize in our esoteric minds are for us to behold and come to terms with on our own whenever we are ready. Their continued subsistence depends upon our sacred beliefs. Should we not learn to cherish the ominously unimaginable moments present in time as they might just be the key towards solving this mysterious conundrum? Go with the natural flow. Be who you really are, not who you think you are! You only live twice my friend. Hold on to the meaningful strands of existence as long as they are accessible for others to perceive and experience as well. There is order in chaos, symmetry in asymmetry and every single sensation in between. Lightning and thunderbolts collide as if they were one. Simply seeking what they wish to forget. Overhead goes a shooting star and thus; strike it down I say for as the black, blue and red rule always goes... you can create certain scenarios in actuality according to your own Will. Man can manifest into being whatever he chooses to. Take care though, that you do not lose sense of your inner core or purpose along the way. For what comes next may never come again. All we need to do is: turn over the page of the book of life and take the forthcoming steps.
>>24875621
No, there are many limiting circumstances surrounding suicide
>having the knowledge or agency to do it
>not succumbing to biological pressures not to
>not succumbing to social/spiritual pressures not to
The mere fact that you even have to commit suicide in order to stop existing is itself an imposition
We're not free, sapient creatures. We're very limited, sapient creatures.
Would you be okay with your kids killing themselves because they don't like life? I mean you might, but most people aren't. And then the circle of pain just comes right back to you. It's a shitshow from all angles.
Yeah, it's never going to happen, babies provide too much happiness for people to forego apparently. You know, cause life is a precious gift?
I don't know why so many people are able to so effectively fool themselves, but they are the majority so say anything else to them and you're a creepo serial killer narcissist.
>>24875621
>>24875680
I'd be more apt to agree with you though if we had a painless "off" button and if the pressing of that button wasn't usually discouraged
>>24875723
>babies provide too much happiness
Nice meme
>>24875723
There are multiple studies that show your happiness decreases when you have a child.
>>24875736
>>24875751
Fine, whatever. Fulfillment of a biological urge then.
>>24875730
>tfw you can't even legally get euthanized
But muh religion
>>24875238
wow that like so deep man, like wow you are so smart, like wow bro you are a next socrates, like wow.
>>24875751
yeah provided to you by people not wanting you to have kids.
>>24875784
r u copying my condescending posting style?
I don't think OP is even trying to be smart, or that the originality of what he's saying is even relevant
it's not about him duderoodie
>>24875784
thanks bro :^)
you really hit the nail with the hammer there
peace is a spook. it implies that something must be fixed.
true peace is accepting the nature of reality as it is in its current form
>>24875942
why does our biological nature make us feel un-peace where there should be peace?
there's something to it even if it's not entirely intrinsic
why should we have to learn to accept reality, why don't we accept it by default?
there can't be peace where one or more things see non-peace, because then peace is no longer universal
>>24875942
>>24875974
basically I'm trying to say that learning to accept the nature of reality IS fixing something
so something must have to be fixed
honestly its pretty easy to say that you wont reproduce i've done it myself and im pretty damn determined about that but i'd still totally fuck amy schumer if the lighting was dark enough you know its like unless you dont jizz at all ever theres still a chance it could knock some female up
>>24875974
peace and un peace. focus on one and you'll invoke the other. yin yang. two sides of the same coin
true peace cant be known through words or thoughts. peace is the time lapse between the beginning and the end of this post.
>>24876191
no that's not what I'm saying m8
I'm saying you're conveniently dismissing the experiences of those who don't see the world as peaceful
and because there are entities that see the world as not peaceful, it cannot be universally peaceful, as whether something is peaceful or not is defined by the things percieving it
you're talking nonsense dude no offense
on one hand you're saying nothing has to be fixed and on the other you're advocating a means to fixing things (in this case the perciever themselves)
it's still rigged bullshit because anything that doesn't see the world as peaceful was causally created that way
>>24876253
and, if the universe were truly peaceful, there would be no "learning curve" to acknowledging it as such
there would be no entity that even could see it as not peaceful
it's not even an existential necessity yet it's still happening
>>24876253
dont take my word for it, im just a messenger. i'm your opposite half. without you i wouldnt be having this conversation, and vice versa. you complete me as i complete you and through our interconnectedness we become whole. I'm your long lost brother telling you about all the experiences you werent there to personally witness. Even as i tell you about them they are long gone, in the distant past.
Just because you're a lonely failure who lives with their parents doesn't mean life isn't fulfilling and beautiful to others.
Not everyone is fucked in the head like you are, OP.
>>24876392
I don't want to be whole with dogmatic ignorance, which is what I see in you
No offense
I can't tell if you're trying to be ironic or not but you're not even addressing any of what I said or your direct contradictions like it's in one ear and out the other
I understand what you're saying but what I'm saying is that simply by virtue of the fact that in order to see things peacefully requires an arbitrary and selective mindset over another proves that the universe is not universally peaceful. It proves that there IS something to be fixed, but there is no reason for that thing having to be fixed! But you sure as hell can't say that something doesn't have to be fixed, and relegating that responsibility to the individual to change their mindset over the whole doesn't make the need to fix disappear entirely.
>>24876488
*that in order to see things peacefully one requires an arbitrary
nb
>>24876488
paradoxes and contradictions are a part of nature. beyond our petty and insignificant argumentation lies the true nature of reality. all i can do is put in a good word and nudge you in whichever direction you'll ultimately choose for yourself. there's no wrong or right direction, thats not for me to decide. in the end each person will go wherever their gut takes them. we're hopelessly free in a universe where anything is possible and that frightens some people. but thats okay, because we're only here for a short time anyway.
You ever sit down and think to yourself, "is this it? nothing more?"
The answer is yes.
>>24876740
>beyond our petty and insignificant argumentation
Yeah it's really clear that you see it that way because you don't even bother to understand what I'm saying
I'm not talking about personal paths and whatnot, you're going off on weird tangents.
I'm talking about a very, very specific think and I, unlike you, am actually open to discourse over it.
>paradoxes and contradictions are a part of nature
Have you ever thought to consider that your contradictions only prove that what you think might not be consistent with nature? It seems like you're just finding excuses to make the framework you operate on unchallengable. Otherwise you would at least directly address me.
You smell like a drone to me.
>If children were brought into the world by an act of pure reason alone, would the human race continue to exist? Would not a man rather have so much sympathy with the coming generation as to spare it the burden of existence, or at any rate not take it upon himself to impose that burden upon it in cold blood?
-Arthur Schopenhauer
>>24875294
No matter what we do in regards to this, the ride never ends. We as humans will not be the one to decide the end of life if for argument sake it inevitably comes to be.
>>24876995
Yeah I already addressed this
Life could appear again by whatever process created it in the first place even if it is destroyed
>>24876900
I am a drone in the sense that i follow my nature. I allow anything and everything. Things come and go, but I remain the same. A flower does what it's meant to do without complaint. Then it does it again the next day. Every day until it shrivels up and dies. Planets revolve around the sun effortlessly. They're doing what their nature demands of them. Gravity commands them to orbit the sun and they do it. Every day until the day the sun explodes and wipes out everything in the solar system. It has happened before, and it will continue to happen for eternity.
>>24877055
>I allow anything and everything
...except for your beliefs to be contested, right? or to attempt to understand where someone else is coming from?
what does any of what you just said have to do with the universe being universally at peace when it clearly isn't, as individual components of it (which are a part of the whole) perceive it not to be?
You're essentially saying "nothing needs to be changed to find peace except your mindset" when you talk of acceptance of the way things are. That is not the same thing as saying nothing needs to be changed at all. That's all I've been trying to say. Your irrelevant bullshit is fine and dandy but it isn't the topic of conversation.
>>24877125
Beliefs are limiting and only serve to keep you in an ideological war with everyone else.
Imagine, one insignificant vessel trying to find a semblance of reason in a world that is without reason. That is what this thread is all about, isn't it? You're trying to fund answers to questions. Lots and lots of questions. That must be exhausting. Having to reaffirm your beliefs in the face of opposition every time an opportunity presents itself. Every day, like clockwork. Sort of like... a drone.
I'm content with just existing and leaving when my time is up. And who knows, I might even get a second shot at this. Who knows... until then I can say i've had a good run
Honestly, why do people even have kids anymore? Its a colossal waste of money and sacrifice of personal freedom, not to mention ethically questionable to bring new life into the world. People fuck all the time like its some carefree recreational activity, not acknowledging that, barring infertility, there is always a chance of getting pregnant; the only foolproof contraception is abstinence.
>>24875238
we wont stop reproducing just so we can be at peace with fucking niggers
>>24877311
>Beliefs are limiting and only serve to keep you in an ideological war with everyone else.
Yet you maintain your own, which exclude mine. You don't see the hypocrisy in that? You post your beliefs, and when they are contested, you do not attempt to reaffirm them because you automatically assume them to be true. This leads to delusion, my friend.
>Sort of like... a drone
I apologize for calling you that but your dogmatic vibes got to me. It was uncalled for, but so is your evasiveness.
Why, if you accept everything, are you afraid of having your words confronted?
I am an antinatalist
BUT, what about all the suffering that goes on in the animal world?
most people say hurr it's just nature, but I think it's morally wrong that we don't take a negative view on all the murder starvation torture etc that goes on in the animal kingdom
>>24877438
>>24877311
I reaffirm my beliefs constantly because I care about the truth
It isn't like clockwork, like a drone, because in doing this my understanding of the world evolves.
It is not a testament to personal weakness. It is a testament to my willingness to have my understanding tested, even if it is exhausting. Who are you to judge what I choose to exhaust myself over?
>>24877467
>>24877438
what are my beliefs?
>>24877491
>peace is a spook. it implies that something must be fixed.
>true peace is accepting the nature of reality as it is in its current form
THIS is what we were arguing about
you replied to me stating why I disagree with
>peace and un peace. focus on one and you'll invoke the other. yin yang. two sides of the same coin
...even though I had already stated in the post you replied to that, in order for the universe to be truly universally, one would be in a state of seeing it as peaceful by default, and not need to "focus" and "evoke" in order to see it that way
do you get my line of thinking yet?
>>24877547
*truly universally peaceful
anyway yeah those are your beliefs
unless they're not?
>>24875238
Peace is unnatural and overrated anyway
>inb4 edgy
>>24877547
and the reason why your beliefs are inconsistent is because you believe that nothing needs to be fixed to experience peace yet experiencing peace is contingent upon accepting reality
therefore if you don't accept reality, you need to be fixed
therefore something needs to be fixed, the individual
>>24875238
how can peace know itself?
peace is life exalting itself, life living to create peace, not ending life.
>>24875238
I often fantasize about a world like in the movie Children of men, where no people can be born anymore
>>24877588
>>24877547
what needs to be fixed is the propensity of humans to seek answers in a universe that doesn't presuppose the questions. the way to fix it is to just leave it alone. by that i mean stop chasing your tail and focus on what's tangible instead of what leads to infinite regression. questions only spawn more questions. in the end what you're left with is a palette of conflicting viewpoints based on the individual's own sense of what's just or right. democrat republican, anti this pro that.
but even with all the madness and confusion, it still determines the nature of reality at that point in time, thus falling under the all-encompassing, self-encapsulating existence that defines itself. The tao
>>24877944
You seem like someone who could help me with this quandary: I feel like I am in the Dao, Zen, Wu Wei, or whatever, and I don't have any sense of personal identity or definitive opinions on anything that aren't fleeting impressions that change in each moment. This results in inner peace and contentment, not constantly being attached to things or looking for answers to life's questions.
The problem is that it feels like I have no way of relating to and connecting with other people, since I have no self for people to relate to or get to know, like what do I even talk about with people if I have nothing to say, because everything just is?
>>24878143
sounds like ego death. it's tough at first, once you take a peak into nonexistence you can't ever go back. it always comes back to stare at you in the face, no matter how hard you try to push it away.
the preoccupation with how others view you or how you relate to others is itself a hinderance to aligning yourself with the tao. perhaps it stems from residual feelings of inadequacy or frustration. meditation usually helps me whenever i feel stressed or burnt out. really the more you think about how you relate to others only exacerbates the worry itself. no easy way around it, be mindful of your thoughts and stick with what you know, the rest will come of its own accord
Remember wu wei, action without action
>>24875644
>you can create certain scenarios in actuality according to your own Will. Man can manifest into being whatever he chooses to. Take care though, that you do not lose sense of your inner core or purpose along the way. For what comes next may never come again. All we need to do is: turn over the page of the book of life and take the forthcoming steps.
What's this from?
>>24875238
It's called "VR" and "kawaii loli waifus". Be patient.
>>24875238
Monkeys will take over. They will just grow smart and will probably copy or use our tools.
>>24877944
What needs to be fixed isn't human curiosity
Removing understanding doesn't erase pain or hunger
What needs to be changed is the universe's current regime. And the change needs to be permanent. If pain can occur, it will, as it is simply a match up between a percieving physical object and one which is being percieved, which, although arbitrary, are repeatable and contextually intrinsic phenomena. And if any object can be formed, it is at risk of being formed. The formation of these combinations needs to become an impossibility in order for the universe to become 100% okay.
>in the end what you're left with is a palette of conflicting viewpoints based on the individual's own sense of what's just or right
No. You are also left with control. Personal control is, of course, illusory, but as each intention is representative of the universe's intentions, it, through understanding itself, may alter itself.
Also conflicting viewpoints lead to a multidimensional view when considered in context, an expanded perception that points more to objective truth than either viewpoint alone. They are certainly not worthless, and their conflict is simply an illusion caused by poor consideration of circumstance.
>what needs to be fixed
So you agree that the universe cannot simply be observed the way it is, that it must be changed in order for it to find peace within itself? Isn't that contrary to it being inherently peaceful? Being subjected to phenomena mindlessly sounds terrifying. How can you change the universe if you don't understand it? How can you understand it if you don't ask questions?
>instead of what leads to infinite regression
Hasn't been proven that it does. We have very narrow perspectives. How can you know whether a trail of questions leads to an answer if you haven't found that answer yet?
I have no idea if it's possible to make the universe a universally not bad place forever, but accepting that it isn't doesn't make it better.
