>tfw accepting that there's something wrong with my brain
I'm going to see a therapist for the first time today. I'm nervous and don't know what to say. Are there any topics I should avoid? Any robots been to one of these?
I went once and she said I should be proud of myself and now? Well let's just say the weather looks like HEIL.
"accepting" that there is something "wrong" with your brain is the first step towards locking yourself in the patterns you are in
go to the therapist and bring up that you need advice on how to make yourself happier from moment to moment. don't depend on them to do everything for you. don't take medication.
read a lot. eastern spirituality and western philosophy. dont worry so much.
>>24663329
You seem like you know what your talking about. More advice pls.
>>24663288
You have nothing to worry about but CBT is basically "stop thinking negative thoughts and just b urself lol"
Your attitude that it is time for change will take you much farther than any therapist probably will.
>>24663375
you can ask me anything you like. having parents (almost 10 years ago) that forced me into the psychiatric system and encouraged me to take medications ended up giving me a certain perspective that does not mesh well with most therapist/psychologists. I ended up gaining a lot of personal benefit from "meditative" practices but every day is a learning process.
>>24663441
>[...] a certain perspective that does not mesh well with most therapist/psychologists. I ended up gaining a lot of personal benefit from "meditative" practices but every day is a learning process.
What is it that you're learning? Is it falsifiable, or is it just changed emotional outlook such as 'my life depends on me' and 'right and wrong are more relative than I thought'?
>>24663429
So am I just wasting my neetbux? It's about $160 per session...
>>24663486
lots of things. how to be, how to avoid emotional pitfalls, etc. what to give attention to and what not to give attention to. *why* not to give attention to certain thing and vis versa.
unfortunately a lot of it is just personal, things people learn relevant to who they are. but the path that you can go on to feel more comfortable as your own self is one many others have gone down as well.
"IT GETS BETTER"
;)
>>24663441
OP here. So basically meditation? I've tried it but I feel like an idiot sitting crisscross alone in my room humming to myself.
>>24663556
i would suggest meditation for most people. but i would especially suggest it for teens (i'm assuming here, excuse me) who are going through emotional issues.
this website got me started a few years ago and i still think its the best resource for american/english speaking people who want to grow as people:
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe.html
>>24663541
Ah, so it was just the universal projection fallacy of 'I have come to be a passive and disinterested person, and I post-rationalize it as some sort of objective truth so to escape (self-)criticism: "I-I just shouldn't pay attention whenever someone points to me I'm lazy, everyone has his own life, true knowledge is knowing that no one has any right to tell other people what to do!".' Typical.
>things people learn relevant to who they are
A knowledge is either objective or communicable or isn't knowledge.
>>24663603
well, it's fairly obvious that you don't know anything about what you're talking about, but you have an axe to grind apparently. i'm trying to help OP, take your autism somewhere else.
>>24663541
Also, your 'avoiding emotional pitfalls' just means 'It depends on me to hide my head in the sand and say "I'm not going to talk to you, true wisdom is knowing that no one can force me to discuss my personality flaws if I don't want to.".'.
>>24663637
>what to give attention to and what not to give attention to
This is literally not knowledge. 'To' is not a meaningful, real term, it is subjective. There are either true thoughts, facts, or false thoughts. 'I realized that I should...' is no knowledge, period.
>*why* not to give attention to certain thing
Same. You are just an idiot.
>mfw robots give meaningful advice
>robots
>parents finally got me a therapist
>first session will be this month
>tfw finally getting my assburgers diagnosed
I hope I stay serious and neutral so that I can tell everything to the doc, and get a honest diagnosis. I don't want to cry in front of some stranger and bawl so that he can't understand my speech. I know I might cry because when I'm planning what I'm going to say there I get bit teary-eyed.
>>24663640
>>24663665
you're clearly having a conversation with yourself here. all I said was that meditation is good for people, which it objectively is. you asked a vague question about why I felt that way and I gave you an equally vague response.
>>24663637
In other words, your brain just became self-referential, instantly coming to think about its own thoughts, and getting caught in worthless loops such as 'why am I thinking that? oh, because a thought happened. should I let go of that thought? maybe. this is true knowledge, that thoughts depend on me. I am aware of thoughts; this is self-mastery. self-understanding is noticing when you're thinking. I can choose to attend to thoughts I'm noticing or not. oh, another thought. I know why to choose attention to it or not -- because it depends on me'.
Worthless self-induced psychiatric condition that cuts you off from finding causes of your behaviour in the environment.
>>24663692
You just have no clue what your 'meditation' had wrought on yourself (see >>24663702). Nor will you ever; it's fine, there's literally nothing that can keep you from recommending it to other people.
>>24663702
Huh? All I said was that meditation is beneficial for depression. You're a real moron, buddy.
>>24663732
>All I said was that meditation is beneficial for depression.
Yes, of course. That's a part of the problem: that you, like everyone who 'meditates', lack the self-awareness and introspection to notice what it is that it causes: displacement of thoughts referring to causes of your behaviour, such as 'I hate what he did, that means that he had either said that, or must have met with... how to keep this from happening... I hate that guy's guts. let me think of a way... wait, what if I pretended that he's... that might work!...' with meaningless self-sensation such as 'I'm feeling bad... now I'm feeling good... I can control those thoughts... I can control those thoughts... I can control those thoughts'. Guess which one actually builds your brain.
>>24663732
But of course, there is literally no discussion with you as long as you believe in the fairy of self-control, which delusion 'meditation' fuels.
>>24663684
FUCK
i know that feel Tbh
DO NOT TALK ABOUT /r9k/ OR 4CHAN
>>24663764
I was correct when I said you clearly didn't know anything about what you want to talk about and you've demonstrated it multiple times now. Since you're so concerned with scientific objectivity, go take a gander at the scientific literature relating to mindfulness practices. I'll address you again when you demonstrate a basic understanding of the concepts that you so badly are trying to discourage others from.
>>24663783
You don't want a discussion, you want to jerk your hate boner
>>24663825
>go take a gander at the scientific literature relating to mindfulness practices
I used to. Two or three years ago. After the hundredth one still says the 'it's about awareness' and 'it's about self-control' fairy tales, you realize the reason they never operationalize 'awareness'. and believe in free will.
>>24663764
>>24663783
In other words, the 'meditator's' pathetic fallacy is that 'it causes you to control mind-wandering' as opposed to 'it reduces mind-wandering'. Of course if you no longer think about your problems, you are happier. And literally all 'meditation' does is, as soon as you have an unpleasant (or any) thought, emasculate it in its conception, by becoming 'aware' of it, and terminating any digressions it might yield, leaving you with the post-rationalization of 'I could have embraced that train of thought if I only wanted, I just happen not to'.
>>24663846
>believes 'meditation' causes 'self-control' and 'capacity to direct one's thoughts'
>talks of discussion
went to a freudian therapist for 8 sessions, left frustrated and unsatisfied every time. The guy just smiles and nods and says nothing while you whine for about 45min about every topic possible.
Last time i felt so angry and wanted to punch him for being so unhelpful, didnt go back after that. waste of 400 euro
>>24663764
Entirety of your (super logical) argument:
>UH, I SAW SOMEONE WHO SAID THEY MEDITATED, AND THEY STILL DID A THING THAT I DIDN'T LIKE! THERE'S NO WAY THAT MEDITATION IS A REAL THING, BECAUSE IT'S JUST THINKING! THINKING INST A REAL THING, BECAUSE IT'S ALL IN YOUR HEAD! DURRR
>>24663764
Are you Mr anti buddha?
>>24663825
But definitely, by all means, tell me more how 'meditation' 'works' for depression, social anxiety, performance anxiety, addiction, aggression, and how I purportedly have been unaware of all this. It will be cute to watch you not see what those have in common, too.
>>24663895
I already did. Mindfulness practices have been shown to reduce depression and anxiety. Just because you're unaware of this fact, or insist that it isn't the case, does not mean this fact doesn't exist.
Like I said, for someone who is so obsessed with coming off like they are interested in scientific objectivity, you are a real retard.
>>24663924
>Mindfulness
Why has literally no study ever related 'mindfulness' to mindfulness?
As in, why has literally no study ever related 'mindfulness' to things such as percepting odd things about your environment?
For instance, just today, I noticed that a promotional picture in a store is wrong, because it was rotated slightly, and the surface of a liquid on it was not horizontal.
Such a test would be banal to construct. Why has literally no study ever related 'meditation' to it?
And why has it kept literally no one from crying how 'meditation increases awareness, consciousness, and perception, mindfulness make you observe reality, mindfulness meditation makes you see more'?
>>24663962
All of your posts in this topic have been equally psychotic and detached from reality. I'll let you have this whole thread to stroke your hate-boner since you so desperately need it. Bye.
>>24663813
OP here. That was honestly the first thing I thought about. But part of me thinks that this board is toxic. The other part of me likes frogs too much to leave .
>>24663684
Practice the conversation out loud with yourself, get your crying out of the way now so you can tell the therapist coherently later. Or at the very least you might still be a mess saying it to the person but it would be better than no preparation.
>>24663979
>make no unambiguous, falsifiable claims
>accuse a person who makes ambiguous, falsifiable claim of psychosis and detachment from reality
You must be fun at parties. Literally. People literally must love you.
>>24663962
>Why has literally no study ever related 'mindfulness' to mindfulness?
what's that mean?
>>24664002
You should try meditating. Then you might understand why partying with you is no fun. I'm off to another party anon. One with more logical, less cunty partygoers.
Talk about 4chan and r9k
>>24663864
Wtf meditation doesn't imply free will in anyway. Buddhism believes that free will is an illusion. Also awareness is in fact a major tenet of meditation. You clearly don't fucking understand what that word means in the context of meditation. It's obvious from your posts that you don't really get what meditation is and how to do it properly. Why do you talk shit about something you don't even understand?
Mindfulness practice protocols from clinical trials have been proven to be as effective as drugs in certain behaviors like preventing drug addiction relapses.
>>24664000
OP here yada yada. I don't think I'll cry but there's something about being one on one and hearing yourself talk knowing someone else can hear it and going to some uncomfortable grounds. Idk what I'm trying to say. I think the pressure might break me down
>>24663288
anon, dont make the same mistake I did and keep parts out, it literally stops them from doing their job
>>24663879
You know that Freud's theories are very outdated and mostly incorrect right? It's basically going to a doctor who still believes in the 5 humors
>>24664002
(Oh, and I have long, long ago stopped wishing 'meditators' would stop harming mentally ill people by using terms such as 'psychosis', 'delusion', and 'schizophrenia' loosely.)
>>24664017
It means that 'mindfulness' is a misnomer, because it diminishes mindfulness, namely, makes you less perceptive of your environment in terms of the example I gave, or noticing things to read such as signs, or some incongruous things such as, off the top of my head, a tree whose branches are oddly shaped, or an implication of another's words ('why did you say "twisted" instead of...?'), replacing it with consumption with one's own feelings ('I'm aware that I like this guy, I'm aware that I'm enjoying the moment, ...', in accord with what 'mindfulness' explicitly develops ('focus on your sensations, focus on your feelings').
>>24664066
what if you killed someone? would you tell your doc?
>>24664070
I wasn't using psychotic as a pejorative. I was using it as a descriptor. It's not my fault that you view it as a negative.
>>24663962
Lol are you fucking retarded? I don't even care about meditation that much but your post is full autist
>>24664041
One day, you might grow up and talk about what things cause as opposed to what they are 'about'. 'Meditators' and Buddhists declare rejection of free will, but imply it endlessly in ways as transparent as 'meditation makes you the master of your own thoughts'. 'Meditation is about awareness' is about as intentionally ambiguous as it gets.
>>24664083
No brah. But say you killed a puppy or something.
>>24664088
You are fully, thoroughly aware that I am not being psychotic.
>>24664083
Tbh the therapist must remain silent, it's a law
>>24664116
is that risk you're willing to take?
Thanks for the help fellas. Got to go now but I'll check back soon.
>>24664115
What the fuck is this? Some sort of Jedi mind trick? I'm thoroughly aware of the fact that you're mentally unhinged and a douche. No two ways around it.
>>24664124
the therapist MUST remain silent.
if i killed someone, probably i really need that therapist.
>>24664143
I am telling you even granted that you have never seen a psychotic person, you are fully aware that my claims are materialistic and testable, as opposed to yours.
>>24663684
It's one thing if you're going to blabber with no sense of getting a result (other than just getting it out there). Here's what I suggest:
1 - write down what you want to say so you can read it
2 - also write down what you want to get out of therapy
3 - write down a time-line of when you want to see results
4 - read your comments, outline your goals and timeline
5 - let therapist make suggestions about your goals and time-lines so you both come to an agreement
6 - start therapy
7 - every now and then, look at your goals and time-line and make sure your therapy is targeted to meeting goals and time-lines. if they are not, talk to therapist, adjust goals/time-lines or get therapist back on track.
I've been to four therapists. Three looked at me as billable hours. When I did the above, I got help and got better.
>>24664146
>the therapist MUST remain silent.
no they don't, they could be punished in some way for not being silent. What if they just do an anonymous tip because of guilty conscience?
Seems like big risk.
I've always been curious what a therapist would do if you admitting to committing a crime and then another person was convicted of it.
>>24664143
In other words, I have long stopped caring about Buddhist looseness of insult, and subsequent backpedalling (e.g. using 'unhinged' in place of 'delusional'). This is understandable; it just comes from lack of attachment to truth. What's more worrying is that they embrace it willingly.
>>24663535
All kind of therapy and meds are scam anon.
>>24664070
Wtf are you even saying? When I regularly practiced mindfulness meditation, I was more aware of everything. You're supposed to be more mindful of everything in your perception: 5 senses, feelings, thoughts, etc. No one ever fucking told you to disregard visual stimulus in meditation. You are aware of what you are experiencing. I've never read anything about make your feelings a bigger part of your conscious experience. You're literally supposed to just be of aware of what comes and goes, not actively control what you experience
Also mindfulness is just a rough translation of the original language. English doesn't have a direct word that means exactly the same thing. Why are you so fucking focused on the fact that mindfulness in the context of meditation means something different than the colloquial term? Words mean different things and are defined differently in different contexts. It's a normal part of language. And just because you don't like the word "mindfulness" doesn't mean everything else about meditation is wrong.
>>24664162
Your claims aren't materialistic or objective. You're literally just being a giant spaz who wants to look smart and cool. Your best impression of a smart person is the dumbest thing I've seen in a while .
>>24664197
>supposed
>you are told to
>supposed
Nice arguments.
>>24664197
Why does every single one of your posts lack rationality? It's like you have voluntarily rejected the pursuit of truth.
>>24664184
No, you're delusional as well as unhinged. Delusional in that you're ignoring the scientific proof that mindfulness is useful, while simultaneously thinking you're the one who has science behind them.
>>24664218
>anon disagrees with me
>call him unhinged
lol
>>24664146
>trusting a normalfag you met first time with your life secrets
I guess you have "mental" problems.
>>24664067
i had no clue when i started going that there where actual different approaches in therapy. Initially i thought every therapist works the same way mine did, by just listening to your problems and nodding. Oh boy was i wrong
i go to acupuncture now, it seems to help manage my stress levels a bit and other problems
>>24664095
Do you not understand the distinction between free will and willpower/discipline? Come back after you've educated yourself with basic philosophy before you continue to make a fool out of yourself. Once you learn the difference between the two ideas, meditation will become much more clear to you.
>intentionally ambiguous
Except it's not. Read Mindfulness in Plain English. It's a free pdf that's easy to find on google. It describes pretty well what qualities of the mind you are trying to cultivate. Also mindfulness like any other qualities of the mind are difficult to describe in words. Meditation texts often use analogies to simplify the explanation.
>>24664217
You're a fucking delusional imbecile. You haven't said anything with merit once. During your repeated arguments with strawmen you've continued to fail to explain away the scientific proof that meditation has benefit.
>>24664218
>Delusional in that you're ignoring the scientific proof that mindfulness is useful
I laughed out loud, but then I remembered people like you are literally going to run countries.
'Useful' is not a materialistic term.
There are many outcomes 'meditation' has never been related to and never will, the most trivial one being, again, the 'notice missing details' subscale of WAIS.
As I have pointed out literally dozens of times, I never deny the findings of research on 'meditation': I just point out things such that the 'benefits' are exclusively in terms of reduction of care, in line with the neurological mechanism of it, and increased mental performance (in a very narrow sense of e.g. short-term memory), which corresponds to diminished mind-wandering.
>>24664242
Oh, hey anon. I posted a link to that before this retard decided that samefagging his useless ideology was worth ruining a thread over.
Is there some kind of CBT workbook or something I can use instead of going to a therapist? I really want to change but I can't afford it.
>>24664237
>acupuncture
>>24664262
Look up Just Be Yourself, it's free pdf that goes over CBT.
>>24664208
What are you even trying to say? I'm not as autistic as you so I don't think like you.
Your argument was that you thought mindfulness made you less aware of visual signs. I said that meditation teaches you to be aware of everything so basically you had a flawed understanding of meditation from the beginning.
>>24664253
>'Useful' is not a materialistic term.
You're an actual retard. Is that materialistic enough?
>>24664242
>Mindfulness in Plain English
That book is the most vitriolic and yet heavy-handed attack on intellectualism I have ever seen. The guy's assertions that 'I'm literally going to tell you that true understanding of reality is catching yourself have thoughts', referring to thinking as 'adulterated'... I don't remember the details, but it was cringeworthy.
>>24664243
>>24664287
>You're a fucking delusional imbecile.
>You're an actual retard.
Nice ad hominem. I shouldn't have expected someone who fell for the meditation meme to be able to argue effectively or coherently.
>>24664262
They just nod and engage in small talk. Not sure what are you expecting there. There are no books cause it's a scam.
>won't even attempt to learn about meditation
>calls it "intentionally ambiguous" due to own ignorance
>>24663288
>Going to the armchair jew
They'll either try to make you a normie or, like they probably will, reinstate your beliefs so that you feel better about yourself, because someone else shares your beliefs
Literally anyone can be a therapist. It's the most jewish career of them all .
>>24664242
>Also mindfulness like any other qualities of the mind are difficult to describe in words.
>I can't
>therefore it's objectively difficult
The brain is absolutely no different from a tree or a website.
>>24663288
>Sorry for no greentext.
As someone who's been trained in counseling processes and techniques for a few years, I'll let you know what will happen at your first meeting, what you should expect later on into sessions if you choose to continue, what you can expect a "good" therapist to do and some general thoughts on what you may want to expect from these therapists.
The first meeting is about gathering information. Some therapists will choose to follow a rigid structure while some will let the conversation naturally diverge into multiple topics if that's where it leads. Those who follow a rigid structure will ask you questions like a doctor would regarding your family history, drug use and medications, past experiences, etc. Those who don't follow this structure will eventually ask you these questions, but they are interested in seeing where the conversation goes as that is another great source of information. Don't expect a diagnosis immediately after the first interview. This takes multiple sessions because diagnosing is not as simple as others make it out to be and is serious for future treatment, so it's important to be right and thus this will take some time.
cont//
>>24664293
You haven't been able to argue coherently since the beginning of the "argument"
If you truly believe that you have been, then I have been proven correct in my thought that you are delusional as fuck.
>>24664298
He seems pretty well read to me anon.
>>24664217
>lack rationality
What part of it lacks rationality? Name one specific example.
>voluntarily rejected the pursuit of truth
Yet you still cling on your strawman interpretation of meditation and don't try to learn what it really is about. In order to have a rational discussion of meditation, we need to be talking about the same thing. You've continually made it clear that you an incorrect and flawed understanding of meditation
>>24664276
Fug.
>>24664294
Isn't CBT legit though? I mean I'm sure there are therapists that just let you rant and nod at whatever you say but I was under the assumption that CBT was a structured way of helping you change your thought patterns and behaviors.
>>24664307
After diagnosis and when the therapist believes to understand some of the problem, therapy will begin to take place. The most popular form of therapy is Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT). CBT focuses on identifying and changing maladaptive thoughts and using behavioral techniques to encourage and change these maladaptive thoughts and behavior. An example of CBT would be showing you how believing if you fail at X you are a terrible person. First step would be to make you see that this is not at all logically true and they would encourage you to put yourself in situations where you may fail in order to further realize this. CBT is shown to be very effective overall, though some therapy may also be accompanied with medication. That said, therapy is more of an art than a science, and your therapist may believe in a different course of therapeutic action.
>go to therapists few times
>one time start to talk about determinism
>he doesn't know what's that
>stand up
>walk away
>never came back
>>24664311
I already told you to quit samefagging.
>>24664279
>Your argument was that you thought mindfulness made you less aware of visual signs.
Which is true (though 'visual signs' is only a very small subset).
>I said that meditation teaches you to be aware of everything [...].
Which is true, as well.
Except you have to be a special kind of retarded to think 'its proponents tell you it's about being aware' is a proof that it makes you aware.
>>24664323
That said, going into therapy, I think it's useful to know a few things in order to know what to expect and understand when you have a decent therapist, though this is again up to you and if they diverge from these common teachings and you don't mind, that's ok. The relationship between the client and therapist is extremely important. If you are not meshing well with your therapist and never feel comfortable or that you are being judged, just drop them. They should be non-judgmental and open to hear all you have to say. Some therapists are only right for certain people and so on.
Also,therapists should never be outright telling you what to do (i.e. giving advice). You'll see many people here offer you advice, but the fact of the matter is that these people are different from you. Your circumstances, personality, and goals may mean that one person's advice is great while another's is garbage. This is why you commonly see people ask for advice but never act upon it. Therapy is about making you self-sufficient in that you can make the important decisions and it's a way for you to follow what you want to do and who you want to be, which you may learn through the process. The therapist is supposed to be there for you in order to help you tackle the issues you face when making these decisions, but ultimately, they want your life to be up to you. For example, meditation may work for you, it may not. It's not the end of the world if so and maybe something else can help.
>>24664290
He literally never says what you think he says. The book is very mild in assertion and recommends you do the exploration yourself. It just teaches you the actual steps to meditation and discusses some pros.
Why do you continually make false assumptions about meditation?
>>24664330
You have no basis to think that I am a samefag, which I am not.
Stick the facts, I suppose that's difficult since meditation lacks any.
>>24664337
Finally, I think it's worth mentioning that counseling is a relatively new practice. If we are to say to Freud is the father of counseling, then the basis of the practice is unfounded. His theories have largely been debunked, but it all originated with someone sitting on a chair and talking to someone about their problems. People haven't researched why sitting on a chair and speaking with a stranger has to be the basis for this healing process, it's something that old man Freud just came up with. The point is, I argue, that therapy with a stranger is not necessary to solving your problems. The same can be accomplished with mental insight and criticism and social support. It just so happens these two things are present during therapeutic sessions and people don't know how to do this before becoming involved in therapy.
The point I'm trying to make is that you don't need to pay $160 a session to improve your life, but if you don't know how to improve it otherwise, which many people don't, it may be worthwhile to learn skills on how to approach everyday life and it's challenges by going into therapy. Ultimately, the choice is up to you and it's worth knowing this every step of the way. I hope I was able to clarify some of the unknowns about counseling in general.
>>24664330
I never samefag.
That other anon, or maybe more, who knows, might just be aware that I debunk 'meditation' on /r9k/ and decided to join me for kicks, for the novelty value of siding with me. Or maybe they actually agree with me? Either way, have fun guys.
This thread is full of shitpost, you niggas better check my dubs.
>>24664335
No one ever says just because people say it's about being aware makes you aware. There's a fucking practice to it. Meditation is an act you perform. There are concrete steps and objective skills you have to improve on.
>>24664374
lol get gud scrub
>>24664362
It is a fact that mindfulness protocols perform better than placebo in clinical trials
>>24664409
The two morons shitposting about meditation without knowing anything about it keep drawing strawmen and then throwing a fit when you won't engage with their delusions. I wouldn't expect them to actually talk about what meditation is at this point since they've been unable to do it for the entire thread.
>>24664322
>Isn't CBT legit?
It only makes sense in theory. No one can change your thoughts and behaviors especially if they are deeply rooted.
First thing you will learn in therapy that only you can change yourself and they can't force you to make anything. Then you will talk about whatever till you run out of money.
>>24664358
Fuck you for getting me to look at this sorry shit of a book again to find examples.
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe1-4.html
>you are spending your whole life just barely getting by
'I'm going to insult you by implying you're not a full human being until your brain derails itself into thinking about its thinking.'
>But there is really another whole realm of depth and sensitivity available in life
'...and by implying that you don't know TRUE beauty.'
>Go to a party. Listen to the laughter, that brittle-tongued voice that says fun on the surface and fear underneath. Feel the tension, feel the pressure. Nobody really relaxes.
'...and that no TRUE fun can be had without meditating'.
>Watch the news on TV. Listen to the lyrics in popular songs. You find the same theme repeated over and over in variations. Jealousy, suffering, discontent and stress.
'...and...'
No, what the fuck. This book's manipulation is just staggering. I knew it, I've seen that crap many times already, but that man's hysteria is just... cult leader tier. He's implying life is some mirthless nightmare hellhole without 'meditating', and that's just a small section of one fucking chapter.
In fact, I changed my mind, this book should be read as widely as possible, just for its sheer bizarreness.
Do you faggots had to fill that 100 question shit every time you go to new therapist with all those shit questions?
>>24664395
>No one ever says just because people say it's about being aware makes you aware.
'Your argument was that you thought mindfulness made you less aware of visual signs. I said that meditation teaches you to be aware of everything so basically you had a flawed understanding of meditation from the beginning.'
-- you, >>24664279 (your previous post)
>>24664432
agree desu, just sounds like brainwashing.
>>24664368
>debunk 'meditation'
Doesn't even have a proper understanding of the topic. You guys have just been arguing against a flawed concept of meditation that you guys came up with. Literally none of your arguments make sense in the context of real meditation.
Here's the kicker: when someone tells you to actually learn about meditation so we can actually talk about it instead of clearing up your misconceptions, you just say it's not rational so you don't need to bother learning it.
>>24664451
It teaches you HOW to be more mindful. If I teach you to play piano, you still have to practice to be able to play it properly
>inb4 my sentence did not imply this
How are you still not understanding that it's meditation is a practice? You don't learn awareness like you learn the multiplication table. You learn it like you learn a sport or instrument.
>>24664432
>I'm going to insult you by implying
You are easily offended if you read the sentence as an insult.
>and by implying that you don't know
How do you read the same sentences that every else reads but only you get these weird implications in your head
>and that no TRUE fun can be had
Again, another weird implication. You're making assumptions about what the author implied when he didn't actually write any of that. He just made an observation about people at a party. He didn't follow up by saying only if you meditation, you will have true fun.
>>24664464
'Meditation' is very simple.
It physically alters your brain so that your thinking is involuntarily interrupted by self-referential thoughts of 'I just noticed I had a thought/a feeling' (caused by the 'focus on the breath' technique). This leads to a sense of calm, because anxiety and anger disappears with thoughts about them, but also impairs mind-wandering, namely letting your sense of anxiety and anger lead into hypotheticals and questions which might yield insights. After those feelings are made aware, such hypotheticals/questions don't happen as much, and cannot be resumed intentionally (the free will fallacy), because having the thought to resume a train of thought depends on an involuntary occurrence of the idea and desire to. The sense of accomplishment from catching one's thinking leads to claims 'it makes you aware'. Self-occupation and explicit practices such as 'focus on your feelings for other people, focus on the feel of ground before your feet, focus on the feel of the music', all real techniques) lead to an emotional haze whereby thoughts of one's environment ('hey look, those birds only seem to sit on the west side of the park, wonder why') give way to a semi-self-aware sensation of contentment that 'one is outside', 'what a beautiful view' e.g. This results in claims of improved quality of life, as well as decreased desire to achieve material (social, intellectual) goals ('I realized that I didn't need as much in life, now I pursue things at my own rate' -- post-rationalization of decreased drive as reaching the 'proper' degree of drive).
There is more to it, too.
See >>24664507 for 'meditators'' idiocy. They don't talk about the causes and consequences of the phenomenon, they just endlessly parrot 'it makes you aware', 'it makes you mindful' as though those were material terms.
>>24663637
>claims knowledge about meditation
>"your own self"
You lost me.
People on the forefront of, for lack of a better word, spirituality understand identity is an illusion. If OP wants to have the life of someone who conforms you're leading them woefully astray. But hey, at least you got to act wise anonymously.
Spirituality/meditation is as simple as this: what is it like to be?
Mindfulness exercises would likely be useful for op, that's what most therapists get a hard on about. Mindfulness is as simple as: what is it like to be outside of thought? To experience without rumination.
The spirituality I'm into at the moment involves doing potentially fatal things. For example, I've slept four hours this week, my last meal was Friday night and I just got home from a 5km run. I'm pretty sure I'm writing a post on /r9k/, but I'm open to the idea that I'm hallucinating at an ATM.
>>24664608
>Mindfulness is as simple as: what is it like to be outside of thought? To experience without rumination.
Another example of irresponsible saying of 'it's about...' while ignoring the consequences. See >>24664601.
>>24664623
>>24664608
In other words, pretty shiny words, 'to be', 'to be without', might attract religious people, but the nature of a practice is revealed when you speak of cause and consequence. Which means talk of matter. Which means studying its effects on the brain. Which means rejection of free will and the fairy tale that 'no matter its consequences, you can just become more aware and overcome them'. Which is far too much to expect of Buddhists.
>>24664608
You're assuming things that aren't true. I don't think the "self" is a permanent force. I am fully aware of the illusory aspects of consciousness. I gave a vague response to bait and you're drawing strawmen.
So many smug autists in this thread.
>>24664663
I already said, I don't samefag.
>>24664678
"So many smug autists" would imply multiple smug autists.
>>24664623
Actually that's the simplest and most accurate way to describe it.
The consequences are part of the practice. A'la Dzogchen, 'the goal is the way'.
>>24664702
Correct; and since according to 'meditators' and Buddhists, I am a mentally ill illogical person whose views can hardly be shared by other people, it follows there can't have been more than one despicable person ITT, which implies that those 'many' autists are just me. Which is not true.
>>24664714
>The consequences are part of the practice. A'la Dzogchen, 'the goal is the way'.
This literally says nothing, you retard. 'The real is part of the experienced. A la Bullcrap, "The window is the room".' Go be underage somewhere else with your edgy parables.
>>24663327
kekd audibly
>>24663327
I might get the celt one tattooed
>>24664757
>since according to 'meditators' and Buddhists, I am a mentally ill illogical person whose views can hardly be shared by other people
Oh boo hoo you whiny fucking baby. You came in the thread acting like a smug little bitch, acting like you're better than everyone while being rude as fuck. You don't get to play the sympathy card
>MEDITATORS ARE MEANIES!!
>>24664899
If you think I would be fazed by 'mentally ill' and 'illogical', which are so tame as to leave me literally disappointed and tempting me to tell you to try better, you don't know what Buddhists are REALLY capable of.
>>24664757
>Correct; and since according to 'meditators' and Buddhists, I am a mentally ill illogical person whose views can hardly be shared by other people, it follows there can't have been more than one despicable person ITT, which implies that those 'many' autists are just me. Which is not true.
Anyways, this part right here is a good example of your failure to use logic for this entire thread. Nothing you said there makes sense. Nothing implied that your views can't be shared by other people. Nothing implied that there can't be more than one "despicable" person in the thread. I literally said "SO MANY" as in multiple, and you failed to realize "SO MANY" MEANS "MULTIPLE"
And I explained to you the fact that "so many" means "MULTIPLE" and you post the most illogical tard-drivel you could think of to explain to me that I must have meant there was only one smug autist.
No, I meant there are multiple smug autists. You just happen to be the most dense and illogical of them all.
>>24664640
>pretty shiny words
My bad. I was going to write 'what it's like to have consciousness' but I thought that would be a bit inaccessible (inaccessible seems to be your mo, so I understand the confusion).
So what I did instead is I used a simple definition of consciousness from one of the most influential essays about the mind.
I've been to three therapists. Only one of them was helpful, and got me to really change and have a breakthrough, and I really think it's because he was just blunt and honest.
He was my second, a father of my friends, he didn't take my insurance, but he gave me a discount. He was an hour away though. I've started seeing another one, and so far all I've heard is how I'm smart, and self confidence boosting attempts. Only one session though.
>>24664956
There is absolutely no magical ultimate quality about having one's brain dumbly derail itself into self-contemplation. It doesn't reveal to one the nature of cognition. It doesn't reveal that concepts are inherently meaningless. It doesn't reveal that the self is the final illusion of reality. It must means your fucking brain keeps thinking about itself. And it makes you dumber. End of story. Religious dolt.
If you think there's something wrong with you medically that's treatable you need to see a Psychiatrist or Neurologists. Counselors and therapists can't prescribe you medicine, I assume you know that, but I felt I should say it.
>INTROSPECTION SUCKS, AM I RIGHT FELLOW SCIENTISTS?
>>24665033
>you need to see a Psychiatrist or Neurologists
Don't trust the Jews. 'Meditation' cures depression.
>>24665043
I actually prefer meditation, counseling, and psychology, but if OP wanted medicine I thought they should know that.
>>24665043
Your 'posts' are 'terrible'
>>24665040
>says the enlightened schizo
>>24665033
At least therapists only hurt your wallet. Psychiatry med experiments can fuck you up totally causing real health problems.
>>24665003
>because I said it was magical or ultimate
What are you even talking about? The point is meditation is broad, widely practiced and not always about lovey dovey bullcrap.
I guess i didn't use enough inherently meaningless terms and concepts for you.
>>24665062
>all people who support mindfulness for depression and anxiety must falsely believe in being enlightened
More strawmen?
This is what happens when someone goes so far into scientific materialism that they stop being able to think critically.
>>24665075
tell me you don't think you are more enlightened then the person who isn't "mindful" of those things. Tell me you aren't a neurotic piece of crap
>>24665040
'Meditation' prevents introspection.
Before 'meditating':
>I feel bad. I wonder... I ate too much today. Am I just bloated? Could the chemical state reflecting bloatedness affect self-judgement for e.g. having done something wrong? Could those amplify each other? Does the term 'I feel bad' mean anything, actually? There's no reason to think that, there's just chemical states. Ha, I just realized that the only meaningful claims are about matter. Well, back to eating... when I remember that someone would like me to eat less, and I eat more nonetheless, what is it that causes regret... how is the memory of a person involuntarily remembered by me when I eat? What is the physical representation of knowledge?'
After 'meditating':
>'I feel bad. I just noticed it! All thoughts self-independently-originate transiently! Feelings are at the same time inherent and external to the self! The self is the substrate of consciousness! The I that is the observer is actually being observed! I can reach perfect self-knowledge which transcends conceptualization! So self-aware! I pity the ignorant, non-meditating fools!'
>>24665101
>changing the goal posts this much
I just told you that. I'm not under the impression that I'm enlightened. I support mindfulness for people with depression and anxiety. It works. You have a ten thousand foot long stick in your ass that makes you think you're more enlightened than me because you DON'T believe it works. You're the only one falsely claiming superiority.
>>24665069
maybe you shouldve made reference to a fallacy so esoteric its absent from Wikipedia.
>>24665003
>>24664601
Why dont you do a write up instead of stewing in anger on r9k?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=Free+will+fallacy&go=Go
>>24664328
He isn't a pathetic disenfrachised lazy helpless projecting neckbeard, why should he know or care what determinism is?
>>24665122
You are aware that you are attacking someone who isn't me, aren't you? I capitalize and punctuate.
>>24665043
light therapy is similarly efficacious
>>24665120
>'Meditation' prevents introspection.
If you had even the most basic understanding of meditation you wouldn't be under this impression. This is like the tenth internal monologue you've written for what you imagine people who practice meditation must be thinking, and I didn't read it.
>>24665122
I never said I thought I was enlightened. I can however tell you that since you believe people "should be more mindful" that you have an advantage over others. Good work at dodging the question of your neuroticism
>confirmed neurotic
>>24665149
What, want to tell me again that 'NO YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND ANYWAY IT'S DEEPLY PERSONAL' if I asked you what it is that 'meditation' made you purportedly aware of in yourself? Come on, you know you want to.
>>24665141
I'm talking to anon, anon
>>24665141
>I capitalize and punctuate
Whoop dee doo
>>24665172
Look, all I'm saying, it is kind of rude to attack people other than me when I'm making myself an obvious target using my choice of punctuation and such. Try not to be a dick, get what I'm saying?
>>24665191
I'm not him shitlord, I'm the guy who doesn't "punctuate and capitalize correctly like a true gentlemen"
>>24665244
If I were to pragmatize my capitalization and punctuation, which I'm not going to do, I'd say that their use exposes me to ridicule, which is a good thing. Sticking to the right thing under ridicule builds character.
>>24665158
>I never said I thought I was enlightened
Yeah, neither did I. You still keep implying I feel that way though. I know for a fact that I'm not. On the other hand, you think you're better than people who want to use mindfulness to benefit their mental state.
>>24665162
Mindfulness meditation has positive benefits for people with depression and anxiety, and people just needing to relax and learn to focus. It leaves positive physical effects on the body as well (blood pressure, etc)
>>24665280
>ask for examples of introspection
>get relaxation, caring less, docility, and physical effects
>>24663288
Do NOT (I repeat, DO NOT) visit a female therapist.
They will NOT understand, trust me. They're trained to deal with bs normie and women "problems".
>>24665280
I don't think I'm better than you, in fact I'm like you which is why I know what you are thinking at all times
>>24663288
I have been seeing a therapist for 5-6 weeks now and it's been cool until now. Reply if you want to know more
>>24665293
>inb4 'I have bad thoughts' is introspection
Again, this is like calling 'I have a hand' understanding of neurology, chemistry of the underlying muscle movement, proprioception, et al.
>>24665293
I wasn't trying to provide you examples of introspection. Here's one: people can use meditations to be introspective and contemplative
Well, that sure was hard.
>>24663535
Yes you're just wasting neetbux. A therapist will take no practical step towards improving your quality of life. They will, as others have said, use CBT and just tell you to stop thinking negative thoughts or will just tell you to try harder at improving your life.
>>24665312
Neither one of you chuckleheads has accurately created a strawman yet that comes close to representing my internal dialogue so I highly doubt it.
Pro-meditation anon here: Going out to get beer. Work ended for me about 3 hours ago and I work during the night, so this is my chance to drink some brews before bedtime. Be back in a bit, f@m f@m
>>24665323
>people can use meditations to be introspective and contemplative
Nice source there.
>>24665355
your internal dialogue is mostly consumed by dicks, is that a little closer?
>>24663429
That image hit WAY too close to home.. Where do I start changing my lifestyle..?
>>24665401
Well, it's true. How could someone not get contemplative and introspective if they're focusing on the internal thoughts and sensations that they're experiencing? Literally your argument is that introspection and learning about how the "self" operates is bad for you.
>>24665402
hehe
>>24665454
>hehe
Are you a grill??????
>>24665454
>Literally your argument is that introspection and learning about how the "self" operates is bad for you.
No, it is you who, being religious and therefore disinterested in reality, insist that 'no true meditation' can get you to have meaningless, vacuous, self-referential, self-obsessive thoughts, which is exactly what happens. This is normal, by the way. When you have been disproved, you are reduced to lying to those who don't follow the discussion closely enough to tell.
>>24665454
>How could someone not get contemplative and introspective if they're focusing on the internal thoughts and sensations that they're experiencing?
How can one not understand the distinction on focusing on WHY and focusing on WHETHER? How indeed...
'Meditation' gets your brain to choke on the WHETHER, because the mind wandering that might result in analogies or correlates is terminated. 'Oh, I just had a thought. A thought... ha, this reminds me of... wait, I just had *another* thought! Man, do they come. Anyway, funny, thoughts kind of come and go like... like... wow, I just noticed how introspective I am! this sure feels good. I'm so glad I'm meditating.'
>>24665524
In other words, saying that 'meditation' builds self-awareness is like getting stuck in quicksand and cherishing the fact that you're aware of every single struggle of yours. It definitely makes you aware; but it definitely isn't the right things.
>>24665524
I'm not religious. Not a buddhist. I support people practicing meditation because it is beneficial.
Anyways, you're still under the false impression that being able to focus on one thing (the present moment, for example) makes one unable to focus on other things (introspection, porn, your shitty posts) which is the smug viewpoint of someone who thinks they're better than "those people over there" who do something like meditate. So edgy. You sure showed those damn hippies what's what!
>>24665699
>you're still under the [...] impression that being able to focus on one thing (the present moment, for example) makes one unable to focus on other things (introspection, porn, your shitty posts)
Exactly. You being deeply religious (always cute to see religious people believe they're being scientific), you don't consider the brain in terms of tendencies, but just as a big bag which 'can' do things. 'Oh, meditation just makes me "be able to" focus on the present and focus on the future too when it is needed.' Being deeply religious, you don't realize that thoughts are involuntary, and, being a Buddhist, you don't realize that the self is not a meaningful cause of things: that you cannot 'just self-control yourself to do something'. 'Meditation' doesn't bestow a magic perk of self-control: it increases the frequency of some thoughts and desires and decreases that of others. That's why Buddhists are such staunch proponents of free will: it is necessary for them to obscure this fact, 'b-b-but no, you can use f.w. and force yourself to have thoughts at will!'.
>>24665773
In other words, 'meditation' makes LITERALLY as much sense as 'if you get yourself to think about computer mousepads (yes, a deliberately random example) for an hour or two every day, you will magically build self-control and be able to control your thoughts better.' Yes, is exactly as nonsensical, it is not an exaggeration. Getting you to focus on your own thoughts and feelings is exactly as useless, except focusing on mousepads won't make you passive in addition.
>>24665851
The fallacy lies in the fact that when one has vapid, numbing, meaningless thoughts about 'I just thought about mousepads', everyone will call it out on its uselessness, but when one has vapid, numbing, meaningless thoughts about 'I just thought about the fact that I have been thinking', people will be awed and cowed into conceding that you are truly deeply self-aware.
>>24665773
>>24665851
>>24665886
The bitterly hilarious (how I wish I no more had to write those words...) thing is that 'meditators' will claim that becoming vapidly self-aware of one's thoughts can, for instance, make one 'reevaluate' them. This is ludicrous. Insofar as I have been exposed to hazards of 'meditation' and 'mindfulness' through reading on it, I have become the victim of this myself. My train of thought is often interrupted by the vapid 'is this what you should be doing right now?' 'are you sure that you shouldn't be aware of your thoughts and emotions right now?'. Literally every time, I was just annoyed that my train of thought had disintegrated, because fucking yes, I definitely DO want to do whatever I'd been doing and think whatever I'd been thinking, and that stupid self-referential thought brought me precisely zero new information or insight that might have helped me with it. It was strictly useless. In fact -- and this is the significant part -- the only way to construe such interruptive thoughts as useful is when what you want is to *let go* -- to stop caring, to stop thinking, to stop reasoning, to stop arguing. *Then and only then* are such thoughts 'beneficial' -- if your drive has *from the beginning* been to not do rather than do. Then such thoughts, bringing the reminder that you're doing something that might be dropped, are welcome. Which is precisely the reason that meditation, like our resident 'meditating' moron ITT loves to irrelevantly bring up, 'treats' depression and anxiety.
>>24665773
I'm having trouble thinking of something more ironic than your smug implication that other people aren't being scientific enough.
Like I just said, I'm not a buddhist and I'm not religious. You have made it clear that your anti-scientific views on meditation are just a byproduct of a fedora-tier hatred of religion. Don't get me wrong, I hate organized religion. I'm not going to allow those feelings to let me be biased against something that has scientifically been proven to improve focus, mental state, etc, and has also been proven to have positive physical effects as well.
Anyways, you don't have any idea what I 'consider" the brain to be. I'm quite aware that thoughts are involuntary you smug fuck.
>MUH DETERMINISM
We get it, you think your the ubermensch because you have entry-level philosophical inclinations.
>>24665995
>improve focus
If I had a four-year-old that thought that, I would be proud.
Wouldn't mean that I wouldn't proceed to explaining to him/her that he/she is an idiot, because increased ability to focus, in the sense of dumbly latching onto and dumbly persevering at whatever one elects to do, is absolutely worthless when it is at the expense of the mind-wandering which underlies realizing things to potentially focus on in the wild, as well as realizing improvements to the procedure as you are focusing. Religious, immaterial cretin.
>>24665994
In short, 'meditation' can inherently only ever help you do, think, want, LESS. Never more. It is a simple consequence of the subject of the thoughts it entails.
>>24666050
Well, you can ignore the science that says meditation is beneficial. It doesn't bother me. I just think it's ironic since it seems like your self worth is derived from calling others "immaterial" when you're the one who is being self-deluded by your own ideology.
>>24665995
>I'm quite aware that thoughts are involuntary you smug fuck.
You have been demonstrating your hypocrisy throughout this thread.
>>24666113
>you can ignore the science that says meditation is beneficial
I LITERALLY EXPLICITLY said that 'meditation' increases dumb, digression-less focus.
If you fully intentionally, fully consciously lie that I didn't say what I said LITERALLY and EXPLICITLY, you are truly a Buddhist.
>>24666148
But then, the tragedy of the world is that one has to talk at liars, because there's just no one else.
>>24666148
>
I LITERALLY EXPLICITLY said that 'meditation' increases dumb, digression-less focus.
Yeah, you've been saying it over and over. You don't have any proof. On the other hand, there is plenty of proof that meditation reduces stress and increases mental well-being. Meditation has also been shown to have positive effects on blood pressure, circulation, immune system functionality, etc.
If anyone here is religious, it's you. I look at facts and science. You have a biased perspective and a bunch of ideas about what you think meditation is when you don't know shit about it. For example, you think that if you keep asserting that I am a buddhist you will somehow be correct, when in fact I am not one, and even if I was one, I would still be correct.
>>24666148
I'm curious, are you one of those people who can't tell the difference between something that they're thinking, and actual universal facts? Some people have a problem with coming to a conclusion and not being able to understand that just because it feels right, doesnt mean it is correct.
>>24666209
>Yeah, you've been saying it over and over. You don't have any proof.
...What?...
Are you literally 12?
I AGREED to you, you...
In >>24666050, I fucking AGREED to what YOU have been saying: that 'meditation' increases the dumb, useless focus under tested (clinically/educationally) conditions. If anyone should have provided source, it should have been you (even though I have seen much more crappy, ambiguous studies on 'meditation' and 'mindfulness' than you). I just didn't ask for proof because first, the whole thing was irrelevant, and second, because I knew it was true for years.
Seriously. I am seriously concerned. If you by chance are of age, I don't think you can function in society safely.
>>24666299
Oh well, why do I bother.
Buddhists' 'you ignore studies!' is probably just a knee-jerk cliche. I might explain years after years that I've never done that, but their very next post will still be 'you ignore studies!'.
>>24666354
I just wish there were at least one person on /r9k/ whom you'd embarrass yourself before if you tried to quote a post of mine in which I did as much.
>>24666299
>I fucking AGREED to what YOU have been saying: that 'meditation' increases the dumb, useless focus under tested (clinically/educationally) conditions.
Lel, you know that isn't what I was saying and you're the one who called ME a liar. And if you actually think that being able to focus on one thing at a time makes someone 'dumb', then you're a real fucking moron. But we both know that's true.
Being able to focus on one thing without being distracted is something that most people can't do. It's a skill. If someone develops this skill they won't magically lose other parts of their brain.
You don't have to worry about me. I know for a fact that people who can't think about concepts realistically can function quite fine in human society, and that's the reason why I'm not worried about you functioning safely. What I am worried about, is your ability to think rationally and without dogma. You hate religion so much that you've gone full retard. To you, the idea of someone focusing and having clarity is wrong, because it is called "meditation" by some.
>>24666386
You ignore studies.
>>24664307
>>24664323
>>24664337
>>24664364
Good stuff anon. My only disagreement is that talking to just "anyone" usually doesn't help because that "anyone" isn't trained to take themselves out of the situation.
BTW I'm >>24664171
People in general will talk about themselves.My first therapist would often say something like "well that happened to me. I was at..." and I'm thinking that his experience and conclusions have to be what mine will be. The good therapist stays out of the "personal picture" and, as you said, lets the client speak.
>>24666400
>Being able to focus on one thing without being distracted is something that most people can't do. It's a skill.
Well, this is it.
Your emotional attachment to the concept of free will is so ingrained, you'll die with it.
'N-no, humans can choose whether their brains work concurrently or not, whether they shut themselves off to parallel stimuli or not, "meditation" cannot change those properties of the brain, and even if it can, people can still magically remind themselves to do otherwise.'
You are deeply, deeply religious and suffer from delusions.
>>24666425
>You ignore studies.
Fully conscious, fully intentional lie, that has gone into the archive. Whichever post of mine in the whole history of my posting on 4chan you would quote as a proof of this, you would commit a lie. You lie and you do it fully consciously and fully deliberately.
I think it is better to be deluded than be a liar.
>>24664323
>An example of CBT would be showing you how believing if you fail at X you are a terrible person. First step would be to make you see that this is not at all logically true and they would encourage you to put yourself in situations where you may fail in order to further realize this.
Holy shit.
Therapy confirmed for degenerate in two sentences.
>>24666564
is gud 4 u
>>24666578
You. Under certain definitions of good. The society? Hardly.
>>24665407
do it now, cultivate discipline and just do it.
>>24666510
Yeah, I've said it multiple times that I don't 'agree' with free will. And I'm not a buddhist. But you're welcome to continue to assert that I am. As long as you know that it doesn't make it true. If it makes you feel better to think that only buddhists can recognize the scientific literature regarding meditation, then sure.
>I think it is better to be deluded than be a liar.
Why do you insist on being both?
>>24666510
>>24667180
>>24666400
sophistry 101
>>24666510
>Fully conscious, fully intentional lie, that has gone into the archive
And to respond to this.... Just because you're tangentially aware of the proof that studies provide regarding the beneficial nature of meditation doesn't mean you don't ignore them.... you very clearly are ignoring scientific literature to further your own ideological crusade against meditation. Really, it's quite sad, and you're no better than the religious bigots you want to separate yourself from. I hope I wasn't outside petting my kitties too long for you to see this. You really are a sad twat.
>>24667254
>dot dot dot
>>24667223
Go away retard. I haven't had anything legitimate to argue against and I haven't even been trying to avoid being fallacious because the person attacking me has been fallacious since the beginning of the thread.
>>24667302
>go away
no haha
keep blabbering on with your stupid sophist bullshit, sperg
>>24667180
Oh, wait, I just understood where this is going.
You are going to tell people that I 'lie' in future threads, as had dozens of Buddhists before you.
So for the record, obviously, no. You are a lying Buddhist, meaning, not only do you buy into their religious dogmas reflected in e.g. 'aspects of consciousness are illusory' of >>24664647, not only do you indulge in things like accusations of mental illness which you backpedal from (cf. >>24664184) or lie that I ignore indisputable, irrelevant facts such as that improves the circulatory system (I denied that nowhere), you believe in free will (in spite of your declarations -- e.g. 'it can make you introspect' of >>24665323 as though the idea to introspect weren't a thought itself), and you refuse to discuss consequences of 'meditation' on the brain (in spite of your declarations again -- cf. your 'it is just about awareness and mindfulness', as opposed to >>24664601 or >>24665994) which considering Buddhists' hatred of labelling, including self-labelling, is, sadly, not just the true, but the only way to define them.
Still, my time is really better spent on explanations such as aforementioned >>24664601 and >>24665994 than talking at lying Buddhists.
>>24667302
>I haven't had anything legitimate to argue against
>'meditation is about awareness!'
<'is not!'
>'is too!'
<'is not!'
>'is too! makes me think!'
<'is not!'
>'is too you're dumb!'
'Meditating' morons' idea of discussion.
>>24667485
>future threads
>anonymous imageboard
just a suggestion, you should start using a tripcode so people can remember you between threads, and more importantly remember all your ideas and opinions.
>>24667582
Experience shows resident /r9k/ Buddhists keep a track of lies which to say about me even without me using a tripcode. About purported mental illnesses, purported time I spend on /r9k/, one bizarre screencap in which they claim I was being inconsistent because they didn't comprehend the difference between a claim about *readers* of studies and a claim made by *authors* of studies (what the fuck), and so on. With Buddhists, one doesn't need a tripcode.
>>24667630
just chill man. you do know where you are, right?
it's all games. this whole website is a joke. you gotta take it easy.
>>24667668
Don't worry. I was aware of that when a /r9k/ Buddhist told me 'are you threatening 4chan to dox you?' and 'I literally want to kill you', too.
>>24667696
>threatening
*daring
>>24667696
just chill, you're taking this goofy bullshit way too seriously.
>>24667485
Yeah. You pretty much just said a whole bunch of bullshit, dude. Your misrepresentations of posts you read on the internet, followed inaccurate representations of the authors of posts continue to be as illogical, and unhinged (if you will remember me saying earlier) as ever.
>Don't worry. I was aware of that when a /r9k/ Buddhist told me 'are you threatening 4chan to dox you?' and 'I literally want to kill you', too.
LMAO DUDE WEED
You seriously need to start meditating :^)
ITT: Autism and dubs.
papi
>>24667786
An average person: regular text.
A Buddhist person:spoilered text.
>>24667786
An average person: regular text.
A Buddhist person:spoilered text.
If Aillogical! irrational!followslearn to logic! back to school!from either Byou have no idea what a meaningful discussion is! learn science!ormy cat is more logical than that!C and f(C)way not to notice your logical fallacies! you make no sense at all!, thenwhat did you use to get in school?D canhow many times a day people tell you you are retarded?imply either f(D)to think that such people consider themselves logicalorhave you ever made a non-flawed reasoning in your life?Ethis kid thinks he can thinkor Fthis is not logic, this is just one random string of gibberish. Butstop using words you don't understandif Awow, I suppose some people are just born irrationalfollows fromhow did you find your way back to your basement when you dropped out of school?neither, thenstop calling yourself logicalD doesn't...
>>24667945
this post gave me autism
>arguing on 4chan
>>24667980
>this post gave me autism
Good.
Also that's a nice GIF. Saw it on /gif/.
>>24667945
Seek help
Lol wait this is a therapist advice thread, so nevermind
>>24668053
>Seek help
At what?
Learning 'not to ignore studies'?
>>24668014
Are you? >>24667945
-
>>24668074
how to not get triggered and talk to walls on the internet.
no one is paying attention to you. you are basically just flailing your arms around at nobody while we all point and laugh.
>>24668074
Listen, I'm sorry you have such a hate boner for a universally recognized wellness practice. Maybe you should write an article about it that doesn't sound like a christian conspiracy theorist writing about how 'demonic' yoga is.
>>24668207
Yes.
What, did seriously you think to ask for confirmation of that before you add that I'm homosexual to the repertoire of things you're going to say about me in future threads?
>>24668246
/r/iamverysmart
>>24668246
>in future threads
no one cares about you as much as you think they do
>>24668246
Well. I'm also gay so it's not like I would use it "against you". I don't imagine us talking in future threads because you're anon and I'm not plotting against you. I am
>>24668240
and I think you have a giant delusion that you are setting yourself apart by refusing to recognize how the utility of certain practices relating to meditation can benefit humanity. my friend (? lmao)
I mean do you want to recognize the circulatory benefits of meditation?
>>24668240
if you seriously hate it so much that you think people that benefit from it are "dumbly focused" then you must also have a reason why you don't think people should regulate their blood pressure and improve their circulatory system with it right?
>>24668327
omg is this scarlett johansson
>>24668398
>refusing to recognize how the utility of certain practices relating to meditation can benefit humanity.
>>24668439
>if you seriously hate it so much that you think people that benefit from it are "dumbly focused"
What?... D:
For the love of God, stop talking of 'utility' and 'benefit'. I know. I know. You are Buddhists. It is easy to overtax you. But try to understand this at least. There is no objective utility and benefit. There are just material consequences. Don't say 'it's good'. Say 'it changes the brain so that the frequency of thoughts involving logical causal interpretation of something I see is increased or decreased'. Don't say 'it's beneficial'. Say 'in a study in which "meditators" were to select the person whose communicational style they like most, they selected one exhibiting most "body language", most complimentary, most emotional, and least factual'.
And >>24668439, for the love of God, did you just assume from 'dumbly focused' that I consider focus in itself a negative? Jesus Christ. If my IQ were actually average, the gap between you and would be literally maddening. By 'dumbly focused' I mean diminished ability to notice or remember external facts, such as would linger and, timely reminisced, provoke an insight after the task is completed.
