>Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Revelation 3:20, KJV
Daily reminder that Jesus loves you, forgives you, and is willing to save your soul if you embrace His love.
yay, some random thing that may or may not be in the sky loves me
all my problems vanished cuz i have the laaawd's salvashun, i'm now 6'3, have a 9 inch dick, a 10/10 smart as fuck girl who loves me as much as i love her and will never have any money problem again
>>29980111
You don't necessarily need to believe in le magic sky fairy to appreciate the philosophy behind living your life in a way that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ, the only perfect man who has ever lived. But to not appreciate the timeless philosophy found in the New Testament or to not at least give it a chance, you are missing out on the knowledge that is more likely to uplift you and guide you towards salvation than any other method that is accessible to us as mere men.
At the end of the day, Jesus is willing to forgive you and save your soul and I can guarantee that your life will significantly improve once you realize this.
Faith in Christ will uplift your spirit no matter what evil or difficult situation you may be facing; the ultimate comfort is found in knowing that Jesus Christ is willing to forgive you and to give you comfort if the heart seeks Him and accepts the truths of His word.
Also, there is no Christian in the modern world who is going chop your head off or run you over with a transport truck for your lack of belief in an almighty creator or the exceptional life of Jesus Christ. Why is embracing the ultimate positive message such a bad thing?
>YOUR GOD IS DEAD
>AND NO ONE CARES
>IF THERE IS A HELL
>I'LL SEE YOU THERE
If he loves me why am I in so much pain and suffering.
>>29980263
I don't want nor need Jesus forgiveness, and faith is a really fucking stupid concept.
>Yeah well I guess my life is pretty terrible but at least Jesus will love me when I die! That is, if I don't commit suicide and work like a good boy all of my life.
I don't want his guidance or his teachings, or nothing that he can offer me.
And you know why it's bad to embrace his message? Because life has to be REALLY shitty for people to start believing that AT LEAST they will be happy after they die.
Not to mention >>29980373
>>29980328
>being an edgy nihilist
What do you have to lose?
>>29980373
>>29980383
I understand where you are coming from. But understand that out of all the imperfect men and women who have hurt you, to at least maintain the belief that there is one person who loves you no matter what is the ultimate comfort you can obtain. Realize that faith in the good word of Christ is your best opportunity to rise above those who seek to keep you down. Jesus helps you realize that such people do not matter in the final equation, and keeping the positive word close to your heart is the ultimate salvation.
>>29979941
Is it a rhetorical question when he says "why do you doubt?"
There's probably some reasons as to why.
>>29980548
Jesus is just the ultimate troll senpai
He can literally read people's minds yet tortures them with questions just as a fuck fuck trick.
>>29980522
But Jesus is, apparently, not a person, so the kind of love he might have is not the same as romantic love or motherly love.
He's eternal, so his time "spent" with you is meaningless.
He loves everyone, so his love is nothing special.
He never shows his affection for anyone.
His love lacks everything that makes love mean something.
His love is meaningless.
>>29980522
>What do you have to lose?
nothing to lose and nothing to gain.
>>29979941
and lo, he did cast his bait into the waters, rod, line and tackle box altogether.
>>29980652
I wasn't really baited though, I wanted a real discussion.
I don't understand how people can be happy that something that may or may not be real loves them.
>>29980548
yeah it's like a friend calls you up to go to his house because he has something cool and awesome to give you. you show up and he isn't there. so you text him and text him while waiting for hours with his only response is "trust me :^)" after waiting so many long hours you give up and start walking home. he then jumps out of nowhere and says "I was here all along! now you go to eternal hell for not believing lol!"
>>29979941
Thank you for coming here and spreading the good news Christbro.
I should be doing the same but I'm pretty sad. Lonely and feeling pathetic. Like nobody wants me. I know Jesus does, but it's hard sometimes trying to believe that he would want my complaining self. I feel like I shame him everyday even if I haven't done anything wrong.
I wish I had a wife. But I guess maybe I'm not ready. Idk.. I have mixed feelings. Just angry at myself for not being good enough.
Jesus please forgive me..
>>29980570
Pretty much this. In other words, we are being tested. Jesus (or the story of Jesus if you prefer) represents the only man to have ever achieved a perfect 100 here on earth, and so whether or not you believe in the physical life of Jesus Christ it is maintaining faith in the power of the positive word that will ultimately give you an 'acceptable pass'. The whole idea of Jesus having died for our sins is to ensure that we too can be lifted into the heavens as imperfect men. This is history's (or philosophy's, if you prefer) ultimate act of love.
>>29980594
gf waifu love < unconditional heavenly love
It is actually this earthly love that you will find turns out to be 'meaningless' in the final equation. Jesus has promised to be there for you when all else seems hopeless to come to us and say "lel get in here, faggot" as seen in pic above so long as your heart maintains an acceptable level of faith in the good word that will ultimately give us that 'passing grade'.
>>29980611
Well, if anything I'd say there is more to gain from embracing positive messages of hope than in not doing so. Even sciencefags can't argue that light reveals darkness and is therefore more of a powerful force.
>>29980695
See above, light reveals darkness so why not join the winning team?
>>29980718
But after all is said and done, your friend eventually comes through. See Matthew 27:46 and onward, Jesus Himself was tested in this way.
>>29980779
You are on the right track. Knowing and having genuine remorse for your sins is the ultimate step one can take in bringing yourself closer to the promised heavenly light. Repentance is basically all about feeling bad when you do something wrong. Having the will to do good in your heart will save you from your sins.
>>29981285
But Jesus did not promise me shit.
People who claim to speak for Jesus are promising things. And I don't trust people.
A godly love is meaningless. What am I to him if he's so obviously superior to me? I can love a butterfly, and next week when it's dead I can mourn it, and in two weeks I can love another butterfly.
Same thing with Jesus or God and human beings. His seconds are our decades, it's easy for something like that to "love", and it's not as real as an equal love.
I went to a Christian retreat earlier this year. The people in my squad were really chill and didn't mind me being atheist at all. I tried applying the things the group leaders taught that I agreed with to my personal life, starting with forgiving my dad and talking to him again. Then I made the mistake of mentioning it to my mom one day and after sitting through a tangent about how she will never ever forgive him for all the things he did and that she doesn't want to even stand in the same room as him I wussed out and haven't found the balls to write to him since.
Oh well, sorry jesus if you are actually real. Maybe I'll find another way to continue my personal jihad.
>>29981443
Write to him, for fuck's sake.
>>29980111
>>29980373
>>29980383
>>29980570
>>29980594
If there is one thing in the world that fascinates me, it's the faith of the atheists
Atheism requires a rejection of reality.
Their lives are meaningless and bad, and they know that participating in a religious community will make them happy, yet they continue to reject God, perhaps because they are so in love with their own misery.
Nearly every single atheist is depressed and miserable and struggles with their lives, and yet they continue to reject God and his son, insisting they don't need him.
But humans need God. Your very existence is evident of that.
Atheists have a faith and trust in things that can't possibly be true that would make even the most rabid fanatic envious.
>>29981613
I prefer to have a meaningless and depressive life than lying to myself believing there's a magic sky fairy that loves me and will eventually (meaning: when I die) make all my problems go away if I go every Sunday to church and follow his code of rules.
>>29981739
>I prefer to have a meaningless and depressive life
You certainly are a strange lot, aren't you.
If you prefer your life, then why do you keep complaining about it?
If you want more people to be godless, then hear is my advice to you.
Fake being happy. Fake being fulfilled. Lie to people and say that your life is rich, and full and you are happy all the time and you don't even need God in your life.
Not only will people convert to atheism, it has the added benefit of making you seem like you are not crazy and bitter and contradictory
>>29981443
mothers are trash to sons
never listen to them.
>>29981829
Because I don't like my life. But I sure as fuck prefer it to having a fake life, which is what you just posted. If I'm going to be happy, I want to be happy for real.
I don't want my happiness to be product of a lie, or having to lie being happy.
I'll be happy for real, or I'll be depressed. I don't fuck around in middle ground or in fake happiness.
>>29981973
>I'll be happy for real
Sorry bud. But you'll never be happy for real.
Because I already told you how to be happy for real. You know how to be happy for real.
And yet still you refuse.
I don't know why you are so attached to your misery, but stop complaining about your life when you know exactly why its bad, and know how to improve it.
>>29981973
It's ironic that you say you don't want to live a lie, yet act like having good superficial features will make you happy. You're miserable because of a lie as it is.
Whether you choose to believe or not, that doesn't change that.
>>29982134
Also, I feel it's worth mentioning that the whole "If god loves me why am I unhappy thing" is well explained by even basic understanding of the religion. You have free will, you choose how you exist, your decisions are yours, not gods. And belief in god doesn't even mean everything will be all great and perfect, even the most pious people are troubled and struggle, saints of tormented by sin nearly always.
But even if you don't believe in the theological side of it, the messages contained within the bible are extremely valid, and useful to living a good life.
>>29982115
So Jesus has the monopoly on happiness, and he won't share it unless you praise him?
He can go fuck himself, then.
>>29982134
I was being simplistic. My reasons for unhappiness run much deeper than "my dick is small."
>>29982212
I take it you aren't a determinist
>>29982237
>My reasons for unhappiness run much deeper than "my dick is small."
What do they source from then anon?
You really shouldn't make wide, sweeping statements about a religion you don't even understand the basics of, either.
>>29982248
Determinism is a philosophy for those looking for an excuse. No respected philosopher can argue that it stops us having free will.
>>29982273
How would you reconsile the two?
>>29982212
>good life
>turn the other cheek and let them oppress you when someone is malicious to you
>give up things for the sake of ungrateful randoms who just take and take
>be told everything that is natural is instinctual to you as a human is wrong and can get you eternal punishment at any moment
>spend years and emotional toll of worry trying to communicate with a God that doesn't respond trying to what his plan for you is.
>be forced to be part of a church where "christians" are mostly stuck up hypocrites who will shun you if you don't fit their Wasp mold
yeah that doesn't sound like it'll turn someone miserable and stomped on at all
>>29979941
I've literally gotten down on my knees praying and begged for God to give me some faith that he exists, and he didn't do it. Either he doesn't exist or he doesn't want me.
>>29982310
I don't consider myself an evangelist.
If you are not living by God's values and you life is full of happiness, fulfillment, contentment, and joy, then go ahead and keep on doing what you are doing.
If it works and makes you deeply happy in the same way as religion does, then I believe you should keep at it.
But something tells me you aren't that happy.
>>29982237
pretened your a car, locked, and wont let anyone in to drive you around you just sit there stuborn
now your a car and you open your doors so that jesus can drive you, now you can go all the places you like, just with the faith that jesus is taking you somwhere
how can jesus get in your car if you keep it locked all the time,
>>29982364
Hey! I can do that trick too! You're breathing manually now.
>>29982304
Free will and determinism are separate.
See 'The lazy argument'
>If it is fated that you will recover from this illness, then, regardless of whether you consult a doctor or you do not consult [a doctor] you will recover. But also: if it is fated that you won't recover from this illness, then, regardless of whether you consult a doctor or you do not consult [a doctor] you won't recover. But either it is fated that you will recover from this illness or it is fated that you won't recover. Therefore it is futile to consult a doctor.
But it isn't futile to consult a doctor. It's only rational to go to a doctor when you get sick.
You have free will, even if that free will is determined.
Living a good life is not in vain
>>29982250
>What do they source from then anon?
Other reasons, reasons I can't directly control, my circumstance, my personality, things that are hard to change, and other more superficial things like looks or other features. All of it contributes to a not-so-happy life.
>>29982395
If that was the case then I'd let him in, of course.
But guess what, Jesus doesn't want to drive me because he never appeared for anyone in this planet.
Some dude is saying that he drives for Jesus and that I should totally let him in. That is the case, and fuck no.
>>29982304
There's no need to. Determinism does apply to some things, but not others.
For it to be able to be convincingly applied to human behaviour, we'd first need to demonstrate that we understand what makes us human, where does our consciousness come from.
Also, the idea of determinism falls apart under examination, as people in extremely similar situations, with the exact same genetics (Say twins that live together) can come out extremely differently, different morals, personalities, tastes, they enjoy different things and find different things attractive.
Determinism at best applies to our base behaviours, because it doesn't convincingly explain why humans are so extremely different to each other.
>>29982310
>turn the other cheek and let them oppress you when someone is malicious to you
Nowhere does it say you can't defend yourself or should let yourself be treated like shit constantly. Turn the other cheek refers to the fact that seeking vengeance won't fix anything,, and just creates more violence. If everyone sought vengeance for every bad thing that happened, the world would be complete chaos.
>give up things for the sake of ungrateful randoms who just take and take
You should give to the needy, not to people that just want more shit. You're just encouraging avarice otherwise.
>be told everything that is natural is instinctual to you as a human is wrong and can get you eternal punishment at any moment
This is absolutely not true. We're simply told that behaving in a way that's entirely ruled by destructive emotions such as envy, anger of lust is a bad thing, and that it leads us away from God. You don't go to hell unless you do some really bad shit, and are unrepentant.
>spend years and emotional toll of worry trying to communicate with a God that doesn't respond trying to what his plan for you is.
How is this a negative? It's not hard to pray regularly and to attend church, both are actually positives.
cont
>>29979941
>if any man hear my voice,
But I don't.
>>29981385
It is true, to begin considering the sheer awesomeness of God's power can make us feel insignificant. But based on my interpretation, this is why the New Testament was such an important blessing. The life Jesus Christ was a way for God to further reach us with his teachings and to share with us the knowledge that we need in order to bring ourselves as close to heaven (however you may interpret such a concept) as humanly possible. The fact that Jesus came to teach us these thruths man-to-man, at our level, indicates that God does indeed care about our individual souls being guided in the right direction, to reach the higher ground, and to move our souls towards the light that overpowers any darkness. This is shown by the fact to God loves us enough to put aside all of His epic power for the purpose of saving the souls of spiritual plebs such as ourselves. Jesus Christ is the ultimate act of love.
>>29982436
you dont change because you dont want to, things are hard but not impossible, youre just a whiny weak willed fag. this board is fucking pathetic.
>>29981285
>the only man to have ever achieved a perfect 100 here on earth
Isn't that heresy, saying that Jesus was man and not the God in his Son?
>>29982489
Of course I don't change because I don't want to or I'm too lazy to do it.
I'm a human being, unlike Jesus, and I have faults, one of which is lack of will.
Cry me a river if you dislike it, I don't give a shit about your opinion of me.
>>29982310
>spend years and emotional toll of worry trying to communicate with a God that doesn't respond trying to what his plan for you is.
And also, you're being extremely prideful here. You're saying that the creator of everything should personally reply to you.
To put it in more obvious terms, if you send an email to the president asking for him to explain his plan for the economy, and then acting like he's a moron not worthy of any respect because he didn't personally reply to you. Except on a far larger scale.
>be forced to be part of a church where "christians" are mostly stuck up hypocrites who will shun you if you don't fit their Wasp mold
Have you ever actually been to a church? Forgiveness and anyone being able to rejoin the fold is the basis of any decent christian church. And as to use of the word wasp, unless your church is filled with white protestant politicians and high ranked executives, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
>>29982436
>Other reasons, reasons I can't directly control, my circumstance, my personality, things that are hard to change, and other more superficial things like looks or other features. All of it contributes to a not-so-happy life.
You can change your circumstances easily, and from what I've seen of you here, your personality is fine. But the teachings of the church (not necessarily theological) are extremely useful for helping you develop a better one. How many Bishops are unlikable pricks? How many Catholic priests even? I'd wager very, very few.
And being unhappy because of looks is incredibly vain, and is based of false info and delusions perpetrated by this board. You are living a lie.
>>29982364
So the reason you lie to yourself is to make you happy, well maybe I'll just make up my own religion and believe in that
>>29982504
No. Jesus contained both the divine spirit, and the spirit of man. The duality of Christ is a major facet of who he was.
>>29982551
Go for it anon, as long as it leads you in a direction that's virtuous and makes you happy, it's always a positive.
Catholicism doesn't even say you'll go to hell for it, virtuous pagans aren't punished.
>>29982504
Hebrews 2:5-18
Will Jesus still love me for being gay? I love Him. I don't want Him to hate me. I won't act on my urges if it's needed. I'l l stay my life if needed I need His confirmation
>>29982532
>To put it in more obvious terms, if you send an email to the president asking for him to explain his plan for the economy, and then acting like he's a moron not worthy of any respect because he didn't personally reply to you. Except on a far larger scale.
So in essence you're saying god is limited
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3setVpo8MOY
>>29982532
>your personality is fine
I'm not even nearly like this in real life, I speak like this because anonymous, in real life I kill these opinions so as to get the largest number of acquaintances possible.
I am vain. I'm a human.
Humans are vain, lustful, gluttonous, wrathful, greedy, slothy, envious, corageous, pure, humble, honest, diligent, charitable and loyal.
Why does God ignore me when I ask him to help me believe? I hate atheism but it's the only thing that seems plausible to me, and I feel nothing when I pray for faith
>>29982456
>Nowhere does it say you can't defend yourself or should let yourself be treated like shit constantly. Turn the other cheek refers to the fact that seeking vengeance won't fix anything,, and just creates more violence. If everyone sought vengeance for every bad thing that happened, the world would be complete chaos.
those things are the same thing. making an affront to your person equalized.
>You should give to the needy
poor ugly people have hearts of gold is dumb meme. they are usually the most desperate and sociopathic of society.
>This is absolutely not true. We're simply told that behaving in a way that's entirely ruled by destructive emotions such as envy, anger of lust is a bad thing
but we naturally behave that way. why not make us naturally behave elsewise yet still have capability for that if you're going to throw in that free will catchall meme christian answer. pic related.
>How is this a negative? It's not hard to pray regularly and to attend church, both are actually positives.
If you do not see how years faithfully praying and seeking his Word and guidance without any result or answer takes its toll mentally and spritually then you're retarded
>And also, you're being extremely prideful here. You're saying that the creator of everything should personally reply to you.
God is not a god of tyrants who demands fear and hesitation. He describes himself as an all-powerful all-willing generous Father to his children. See:
> Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
Did you even read the Bible? cont.
Some of us prefer reals over feels. Sorry.
>>29980111
Go back to /b/ heathen
>>29980373
Because you reject Him and instead allow the Adversary into your heart; and with every wound the Adversary inflicts you doubt Him more.
>>29980263
Yes you do, Christianity is based upon faith not action or trying.
>I don't want nor need Jesus forgiveness
Yes you do.
>and faith is a really fucking stupid concept.
because you said so?
You have infinite faith, just in all the wrong things.
>>29980522
>What do you have to lose?
His childish pride and life of carnality.
>>29980594
Go pick up a book before you post, there is no longer an excuse your ignorance.
>>29981739
You lie to yourself every day.
>>29981739
>magic sky fairy
DUDE MEMES LMAO
>>29981973
You live a fake life
>>29982212
One cannot live a good life without accepting Christ, the teachings are mere vanity without Christ.
>>29982237
Read a book, please. Christ has already saved you, all you have to do is accept His gift.
>>29982354
False, abandon your positivism and your pride completely, and faith will come naturally.
>>29982426
Free will and determinism are not separate in Christianity; Christianity is compatibilist.
>>29982436
>Jesus doesn't want to drive me because he never appeared for anyone in this planet.
If you saw Him, that wouldn't allow faith, it would just be appealing to your comfort zone of simplicity.
>>29982478
The sheer awesomeness of God is only magnified when the ignorant see that he lowered himself for our sake and allowed His most sacred love to fill the most godforsaken of places.
>>29982504
Christ is the flesh of God, His closeness to us and His empathy.
>>29982567
Idolatry of the highest order (self-worship) is not virtuous.
>>29982595
Of course, just don't continue to be a sodomite because that act separates you from Him.
>>29982618
Because you are filled with positivism and pride.
>>29982641
t. triggered christcuck
>>29982641
>Because you are filled with positivism and pride.
What kind of pride do you imagine I have? I don't think atheists are superior to religious people, or have a problem with the idea of serving god if he did exist. It's always been obvious to me that if an omnipotent omniscient being existed, it would make sense for me to do what it says
>>29982595
Yes. Homosexuality isn't a sin. The only thing the church sees as wrong is gay marriage, but they admit that it's definitely necessary in social terms to avoid discrimination.
The whole sex before marriage thing isn't a mortal sin, either. It's frowned upon though.
>>29982605
No, and don't twist my words. God absolutely could reply to you, the same as the president obviously could have secretarial staff reply to you. But if everyone knew the plans, the plans wouldn't function in the intended way. If we knew God existed for certain, there would be no faith, and if we knew we had to act a certain way or we'd go to hell, there would be no free will, no real decision to make.
>>29982612
>Humans are vain, lustful, gluttonous, wrathful, greedy, slothy, envious, corageous, pure, humble, honest, diligent, charitable and loyal.
We are, and we all have to cope with these things. But they become sinful when you allow them to rule your life. You don't go to hell for getting angry sometimes, or for wanting to gorge yourself occasionally, we all do those things.
>>29982641
>Of course, just don't continue to be a sodomite because that act separates you from Him.
I am a virgin if that's what you mean. Is masturbation ok still?
>>29982517
>lack of will
you choose to be a loser, dont blame society. youre content with being a loser and only got yourself to blame. i dont care what you do with your shitty life. its not an opinion its a fact, loser.
>>29982641
Must be hard having autism, huh pal?
>>29981613
Most atheists aren't depressed and miserable. Most miserable internet users are atheists. Get it right.
It's hard for an atheist to talk themself back into religious belief because they see it as lying to themself for happiness. It's a surrender of integrity.
>>29982669
he sounds like a way better person than you, angry atheist virgin.
>>29982701
t. triggered, projecting christcuck
>>29979941
>But if he loves me, then why muh dick is small?
Everyone who isn't op is trying to say some edgy shit against the truth.
>>29982532
>Have you ever actually been to a church? Forgiveness and anyone being able to rejoin the fold is the basis of any decent christian church. And as to use of the word wasp, unless your church is filled with white protestant politicians and high ranked executives, I don't think you have anything to worry about.
I have. Being rejected by degenerate normies is one thing. Finding out Christians aren't any different is another. This sort of thing is apparent anywhere from a campus church group or a community church. I see most christians are egotists who believe themselves above and can shun people if they don't fit their narcissistic expectations
>>29982641
>Because you reject Him and instead allow the Adversary into your heart; and with every wound the Adversary inflicts you doubt Him more.
Even at my worst. I believed and prayed. If the Adversary was the cause I had also prayed for spiritual protection in His name yet relief did not come until years was taken from me or I got used to the misery.
Fatigue and silence is making me lose faith more than anything
>>29982595
Don't listen to them anon. Homosexuality is indeed a sin. Pray to Him as much as you can, and there will be a response. Note to yourself that you need to try to make an effort, too.
God listens.
>>29982677
I never blamed society you dumb fuck. I know my faults and I accept them.
But le ebic magic sky fairy isn't going to make me feel any better because I think love that's not shown and that is based on faith is not as good as shown love.
If some people can really have faith then they can knock themselves out on it for all I care, I've got a really religious friend and I don't sperg out in front of him every time he does the signum crucis when we pass in front of a church. I don't care what he does and I'm happy for him that he found happiness in faith.
I'm not the sort of person that can do that.
>>29982675
Then don't lash out on me because I feel like shit because I'm short or ugly, for fuck's sake, I'm not a glorious all-knowing being, and I honestly don't think anything like that exists.
If you do, congratulations, I just wanted an explanation on how you can do it.
>>29982426
After many drafts, I have finally figured out what exactly about your position is incorrect.
You hold the reference point of the end result, the idea of inexorable fate, which causes many to misinterpret determinism, where the correct reference point is from the beginning. Determinism is not strictly the idea that there can only ever be one outcome,
but that there can only ever be one outcome for any given starting position and ruleset.
any christian girls want to be the bf of a strong christian NEET? i know it sounds pretty promising but i can only have and want one gf so please be nice to eachother
>>29982675
>>29982728
Very conflicting answers. Please do not lie to me
Yes, because anything in a 2000-year-old book MUST be true.
>>29982638
>those things are the same thing. making an affront to your person equalized.
They really, really aren't. If you can't even see that, then you shouldn't be making criticisms, you should be taking courses on reading comprehension.
>poor ugly people have hearts of gold is dumb meme.
When did I ever say this? Giving to those that truly need it is a virtuous behaviour.
>they are usually the most desperate and sociopathic of society.
Desperation implies you in fact do need something, or at least feel you do. If people are forced to act in a sinful manner to survive, we should attempt to guide them towards a moral life.
>but we naturally behave that way. why not make us naturally behave elsewise yet still have capability for that if you're going to throw in that free will catchall meme christian answer. pic related.
What is this supposed to mean? You can't just create arbitrary restrictions that rule out the answer, and then act like you win when people can't answer.
We have free will, we have the capacity for sin and for virtue.
>If you do not see how years faithfully praying and seeking his Word and guidance without any result or answer takes its toll mentally and spritually then you're retarded
Calling me retarded isn't an argument. Explain how it does. Because prayer is highly cathartic, as is having faith. It's even a major part of any anonymous groups, such as AA.
>God is not a god of tyrants who demands fear and hesitation. He describes himself as an all-powerful all-willing generous Father to his children
Why do you keep making off topic replies and acting like it's proving me wrong?
God not sending you a gift basket doesn't mean that faith doesn't bring positive things to your life.
>>29982641
Please don't let this /pol/ tier pseudo-Christian warp your opinion of the faith. He's flat out ignoring major teachings to act the way he is, not least of which that it's not left to us to judge, as we are sinful imperfect creatures.
>>29979941
Hi, my name is AMS and I'm here to shill for demons. Did you know that demons can actually do shit that matters, unlike fake dead Jesus guy?
>>29982640
Having feels is earthly. Faith overcomes feels, or gives the right ones at the right times.
>>29982638
God is not Man, God transcends Man and does not have to follow your arbitrary projections of your own personal morality.
>>29982674
You think you do not need God, you think that there is no God because he has not made himself blatant to you according to your own personal ideology, you think there is no need for a God because your own personal ideology thinks it has everything figured out and is right because it just is; you are absolutely flooded with pride and must let all of that go in order for the Holy Spirit to find you.
>>29982676
No, because any sin is rejecting Christ. Why would you reject somebody that you love and loves you back?
>>29982685
Yes Anon, being educated about a subject you know nothing of is just autism.
>>29982699
It's a surrender of their childish pride and positivism.
>>29982725
>Fatigue and silence is making me lose faith more than anything
Then you don't have faith, you just want relief. You're selfishly asking for faith instead of eating dirt and allowing it to consume you.
>>29982732
Faith is bad because i don't like it and it means I have to give up my ideology.
>>29982757
Sodomy is a sin, lust is a sin, homosexuality is not a sin.
>>29982766
That's not the basis, the basis is faith.
The Bible is not a book, it is at least 66 books.
>>29982774
>Please don't let this /pol/ tier pseudo-Christian warp your opinion of the faith
What the hell are you talking about? Please read my posts before replying.
>>29982718
nice one, virgincuck.
>>29982725
>I have. Being rejected by degenerate normies is one thing. Finding out Christians aren't any different is another. This sort of thing is apparent anywhere from a campus church group or a community church. I see most christians are egotists who believe themselves above and can shun people if they don't fit their narcissistic expectations
This is just clearly false. Unless you're going to your local hillsong cult church, or some other similar cult, no church will turn you away or reject you.
>>29982732
>Then don't lash out on me because I feel like shit because I'm short or ugly, for fuck's sake,
Where did I lash out? Pointing out that you're acting in a hypocritical way isn't lashing out.
>>29982757
The official position of the Catholic church is that homosexuality is not a sin. The acts can be interpreted as such (though the vague definition given that leads to that statement is easy to misunderstand), but homosexual desires are not a sin.
>>29982641
This is full of trolling memes spouting i'm out peace nigga. Btw your not fooling anybody.
>>29982804
But what compells you to have faith, if not feels?
>>29982757
I'm not lying. If you start seeing homosexuality a-okay, you'll start seeing bestiality, pedophilia, necrophilia, and other sinful shits normally, too. Baby steps, you know?
Satan will use every trick up his sleeve to stray you further from God's light. Don't be deceived.
>>29982798
last i heard christ has dominion over all demons, they all cower before him, nice try son.
I tried shoving a banana up my ass to get off today. What does Jesus say to that
>>29982813
>You think you do not need God, you think that there is no God because he has not made himself blatant to you according to your own personal ideology, you think there is no need for a God because your own personal ideology thinks it has everything figured out and is right because it just is; you are absolutely flooded with pride and must let all of that go in order for the Holy Spirit to find you.
Brainwashing 101, it's sick that they indoctrinate children with this filth
>>29982813
>>You think you do not need God
No, you're wrong, I desperately DO need to believe but somehow I can't manage it, and when I ask him for help, none comes.
>>he has not made himself blatant to you according to your own personal ideology
I would never be so arrogant as to ask him for a sign, all I've ever asked for is a feeling, a sense that someone was out there hearing my prayers. And I've never gotten it.
>>your own personal ideology thinks it has everything figured out
No it doesn't, I have nothing figured out. Where are you getting all these ideas about what I think from
>>29982861
and brainwashing kids with leftist liberal tranny loving effeminate cuck garbage is better?
>>29982847
Slippery slope fallacy. You think all these different forms of sex can be plotted along some line of sinfulness. It doesn't work that way. All those different forms of sex have totally different ethical problems associated with them, except homosexuality, where the only problem is you personally feeling disgusted and turning that disgust into self-righteousness instead of honestly questioning yourself on the issue.
>>29982741
To continue, let us re-examine your original argument, in which you state that when confronted with the fact that he will die from an illness, a man remains with a choice of whether or not to consult his physician. This is fundamentally false, as he will only choose one outcome, based on past experience, and memory, and his brain's structure and chemistry, and a million other tiny factors, which brings to the table another gentleman's point, ( >>29982456 ) of similair situations producing different results, the trick being that the differences are small only from our reference point.
>>29980111
You shouldn't have said that. Aren't you aware of those who has neglected God and how have they ended in misery as humiliation?
Entrepreneur of Titanic, Marylin Monroe, Britney Spears, the Beatles, that landlord of the mine who laughed at those who were investing him to Mass saying 'God is for those who are in need, for I am not' - the same afternoon a heavy storm washed away town, included his silver and gold vault. The entire town had to pay his insolence and nowadays one can visit the ruins which are the testimony of how God can lift a man to glory and retrieve it as well
>>29982846
The desire to overcome said feels using the most effective possible method?
>>29982813
I'm talking about your clearly highly judgemental behaviours, calling others heathens, insulting them, acting like a complete fundamentalist and the way you're acting like there is only one interpretation.
I'll admit that I jumped to conclusions calling you /pol/ tier, but that's simply because of the DEUS VULT morons that make Catholics look bad around here.
Having read your more recent post, I feel like you have the right intention, but remember it's not our place to pass judgement. Jesus himself walked with sinners, and did not condemn them. We should aspire to act in a similar way, to teach people that the church is there for them, but not to judge them for not choosing to embrace it.
This is most prominent in John, but it's present throughout nearly the whole bible.
>>29982851
> i assume that everything written in old books is true
OK, brother. Join us over on >>>/x/ and we'll show you the good shit.
>>29982877
Stop wasting your time man, that dude obviously thinks that every atheist is a a reddit/sam harris-tier one who thinks atheism is good news and looks down on religious people, and he doesn't know how to talk to any other kind.
>many many oral traditions are concived 2k years ago
>written down hundreds of years later
>translated hundreds of years later again
>cherrypicked from and compiled by the intellectual elite
How can Christians deny the room for human error in the history of the Bible?
>>29982899
>This is fundamentally false, as he will only choose one outcome, based on past experience, and memory, and his brain's structure and chemistry, and a million other tiny factors
But people don't always just choose one thing. You've moved the goalpost from what determinism is, that we can somehow predict how people will act based on these factors, to saying that they can only make one choice. This is obvious, and not at all at odds with free will. Plenty of people choose to stop seeing doctors when they find out they're terminal, whereas plenty don't. This is a choice they make. Them not being able to make both doesn't prove that they were always going to make this one decision, and that if we knew everything about them we could predict which one they'd make.
Just look at our world: war, famine, poverty, hate...
God clearly abandoned us long ago.
Question for the philosophical among you, if god is Omipotent, can God limit his own power?
>>29982943
Because we have ancient copies of the bible, and they don't really differ as far as the major points go, just a couple of translation differences. If you read both the King James and the NIV, you've got a pretty accurate idea of what's in the bible, and what has pretty much always been in the bible.
>>29980373
Through pain and misery is where love can be born. In pain we can have the merit to believe and choose to do the right path. If everything would be always pleasure we couldn't love for as it's necessary to overcome the test. In grief is where we can see what wee really are, some people loose their heads, others go sour and become a scourge while a few remain humble and keep the faith
Grace is the beauty of being loyal
>>29982982
You know, except for all the Gospels in the Dead Sea scrolls that were excluded.
>>29979941
He says he loves me yet here I am without a gf. Ever.
He knows this causes me suffering yet he won't get me a gf.
>>29982919
that goes for you too, reading old books by drug crazed self aggrandizing pedophiles makes it true. nah, /x/ is a joke and so are demons. i doubt youre rich or powerful or possibly have a life since youre here on a friday night. what have demons offered you? not a damn thing.
>>29982966
The better question is why the fuck would He do that.
And to answer you, yeah, he can.
>>29980522
What does he have to lose being an edgy nihilist?
>>29982990
Plus through ordeals we obtain sanctity, wisdom and humbleness
While we keep the faith in God, make the best effort and pray
>>29982966
Of course, I don't see the dilemma here.
>>29982961
These don't follow. God has never just come down and acted to stop sin, the closest was him calling for the destruction of the Caananites. Which was carried out through mortal means instead of divine intervention.
>>29982999
Do you know what was in the dead sea scrolls? A good half was just copies of stuff from the hebrew scriptures, about a third was texts that aren't considered to be canonised such as the book of enoch, with the rest being texts that shed light on the rules and beliefs of some certain sects. They're significant, but aren't necessary to understand the teachings of the bible, and don't add to it from what I know.
>>29982824
How am I being hypocritical? I fully acknowledge it's a superficial thing.
>>29982813
>Then you don't have faith, you just want relief. You're selfishly asking for faith instead of eating dirt and allowing it to consume you.
What does that even mean? I believe in God and Jesus' sacrifice still. Does God want his followers to eat dirt? You're starting to seem like a nonsense poster
>>29982824
>no church will turn you away or reject you.
uhh the uptight close minded stereotype who think they're witch burners still didn't come from nowhere you know. they can be as close minded and hostile even moreso than non-christians.
>>29982774
>They really, really aren't. If you can't even see that
yet you can't explain the difference. nice selective logic there.
>truly need
>we should attempt to guide them towards a moral life.
just because they need it doesn't mean they're not evil sociopaths and opportunists. they'll probably sell whatever you give them for drugs or something
>We have free will, we have the capacity for sin and for virtue.
But man's nature is to sin. you said it yourself. why make someone predispositioned to something and punish them for it. Do you scream at your dog for barking instead of meowing?
>Calling me retarded isn't an argument
the first part is. the one you conveniently left out about prayer and discipleship not leading anywhere.
>off topic replies and acting like it's proving me wrong?
Because it does. the verse is literally taken from the Bible that rebukes your opinion. Are you saying the Bible is false or god is false? Pick one.
>>29982813
No, faith is bad because you expect me to believe in something without question.
Blind belief is recipe for disaster.
>>29983051
Yes, he doesnt stop sin, and end diseases, because he doesnt care.
>>29983004
>>>/x/17920853
Why so salty? Are you starting to realized that the "blessed" and the "damned" are suffering side by side?
>>29983070
if you truly had faith you would need to belive in somthing, having faith is complete let go
>>2998300
When nothing else seems to being going your way, the way of God will set you straight no matter what.
Love the "Jesus loves us" meme
>children die in terrorist attacks, due to disease, in sex-slavery due to exhaustion
>warlords and corrupt politicians live long and with their every wish fulfilled
>>29983123
wouldnt need to belive*
>>29983123
That's why I don't. I can't believe in things I've never seen because "letting go" means losing control.
That loss of self-control can harm me or other people.
>>29983137
>millions of young men go their entire youth without experiencing romantic and sexual relationships with a woman
what if god is actually the devil?
>>29982990
>>29983043
Isn't that narcissistic and pointless? Instead of suffering and getting joy from worship wrought from misery they would've done so much more good by being protected and allowed to practice goodness without being destroyed cruelly.
>>29983137
whats free will dumb dumb, you have to accept jesus first, hes waiting for you your unwillingness is your own undoing
>>29983051
Sorry, I forgot about the flood, but it's important to note that god swore he would never act in such a way again. This is biblical.
>>29983055
Because you're calling one belief system a lie, while living unhappily based on your own belief system based much more off your own ego and emotions than anything else.
>>29983058
>uptight close minded stereotype who think they're witch burners still didn't come from nowhere you know.
Why did you ignore the second half of my point? fisking doesn't make you right, I addressed this already.
>just because they need it doesn't mean they're not evil sociopaths and opportunists. they'll probably sell whatever you give them for drugs or something
Your point? It's not exactly a Christian belief to say that it's better that 10 evil people profit than 1 virtuous man is punished. This is even the basis of our court system.
>But man's nature is to sin. you said it yourself.
No I didn't?
>why make someone predispositioned to something and punish them for it.
Men were given the capacity for free will. God didn't create us with the capacity for sin, it's the actions of man that created the original sin, with the fruit in the garden of eden.
Also, you're ignoring that we can't be created with free will, and created with the inability to make our own decisions at the same time.
>the first part is. the one you conveniently left out about prayer and discipleship not leading anywhere.
And you conveniently left out the part where I asked you to explained why they're bad and take a toll.
>Are you saying the Bible is false or god is false? Pick one.
I'm saying neither, I'm saying that the quote doesn't relate at to what I asked.
But I'm not going to keep arguing this with you. You've clearly already made your decision, and I've already made mine. I hope you eventually see the light, but if you're happy and virtuous, then that's how you should continue to live.
>>29983051
> about a third was texts that aren't considered to be canonised such as the book of enoch
Why weren't these texts canonized? They're a lot more interesting than Paul.
> with the rest being texts that shed light on the rules and beliefs of some certain sects.
Whose beliefs just happened to be radically different from those of modern Christianity. Look no farther than the Gospel of Judas. Kind of convenient how that got left out of the "infallible" text of the Bible.
The point still stands, the Bible is completely arbitrary and only forms a coherent belief system if you squint really hard and ignore all the bits you don't like.
>>29982957
>Them not being able to make both [decisions] doesn't prove that they were always going to make this one decision, and that if we knew everything about them we could predict which one they'd make.
You've misinterpreted my statement, his inability to make both decisions is not the cause, but the byproduct. The basis of determinsim is that the universe must follow some basically laws, and that if the rules and starting positions are known, anything in the course of the system can be predicted.
Jesus is dead. Praise Kek!
>>29983159
>what if god is actually the devil?
If anything, the devil is god but with a lowercase 'g' as opposed to God, the overall creator and the main source of all life.
>>29983120
salty? im not allowed to state my opinion?. what does a screenshot that you wrote yourself prove? 120k a year, my trustfund pays more and i dont even have a job.i dont care for neither.
>>29983169
My emotions and superficial beliefs are confirmed real. God and Jesus are not.
I prefer ugly truths over comfy uncertainties.
>>29982827
Yes Anon, anything that questions your pride must just be trolling.
>>29982861
You're the brainwashed one, not I; sacrifice your pride or be damned by it until Dies Irae
>>29982877
Your thoughts and your words are not matching, you have many doubts and instead of letting faith transcend those doubts as well as your pride and ideology. A feeling no matter how small a sign is still a sign.
You still allow positivism to rule you, even if you reject it.
>>29982897
God does not care about ethics, God is absolute and God is just; unrepentant homosexuals are as equal to all the others. I'm technically a pedophile, but the Lord has given be something greater.
>>29982917
I'm not judging, I am telling them what they need to hear and what they need to do. That is not fundamentalist or judgemental, it's speaking scripture to them. These people all want God, but they have obstacles that they cannot see in their way that are breaking or have broken their faith, and thereby must have the most debilitating of their obstacles (pride) identified. If they want faith for relief or any other selfish reasons, they will not receive. These people are not ignorant, just deceived.
>>29982943
Fides et ratio
>>29982961
False, Man abandoned God and have rejected their savior, and in His place put false idols. Man cannot serve God and Mammon and God cannot interfere with those that choose to serve Mammon or the Adversary.
>>29983000
>If they want faith for relief or any other selfish reasons, they will not receive.
>>29983058
If you want the faith you are asking for, you must lower yourself so that you may be carried up on His shoulders.
>>29983070
You have blind faith in many things, God does not expect blind faith but instead faith that transcends doubt.
>>29983108
False, it is because He cares too much.
>>29983137
Be silent if you want to be ignorant.
>>29983158
Because you are afraid of His judgement. You put pride above salvation because you want immediate satisfaction.
>>29983137
Such is the world, anon. There is no compromise there. What Jesus left us is just a set of guidelines to hopefully one day make that world better. Even if you do not believe in God or an afterlife, his teachings stand, and while people believe in those teachings, there's hope. I don't deny that many use Christianity or another religion as an excuse to push for power or personal gain; that's human nature. All I'm saying is that, no matter whether he was divine or not, Jesus loved those he served and lived with, and wished to pass his love on to future peoples.
>>29983169
>second half of my point
that was the second half of your point. nothing else follows after that phrase. you kept saying you "addressed" things without actually doing it kinda like god I suppose
>Your point? It's not exactly a Christian belief to say that it's better that 10 evil people profit than 1 virtuous man is punished. This is even the basis of our court system.
Court system. not personal living.
>No I didn't?
It says in the Bible that it is man's nature to sin. you are being unbiblical and heretical right now.
>God didn't create us with the capacity for sin, it's the actions of man that created the original sin, with the fruit in the garden of eden.
He put that tree in the garden so doesn't that mean he gave us the exact opportunity and means to sin?
>Also, you're ignoring that we can't be created with free will, and created with the inability to make our own decisions at the same time.
Are you sure? God is omnipotent after all? Are you saying we can figure out some rules that can constrain him?
>the one you conveniently left out about prayer and discipleship not leading anywhere.
I was the one who brought that up which you did not address. Aside from some bullshit that prayer is some secular feel good mental exercise on itself that isn't dependent on a relationship or communication from God
>the quote doesn't relate
Oh but it does. plainly for everyone to see.
>But I'm not going to keep arguing this with you.
Because you literally can't argue. I have not made a decision unlike your christian kneejerk assumption and attempt at patting yourself at the back at your "piousness" or some fascimile of it.
>>29983175
>Why weren't these texts canonized? They're a lot more interesting than Paul.
I don't know the exact reasons, though I'm sure there's been an explanation if you choose to look. Things aren't canonised because they're interesting though.
>Whose beliefs just happened to be radically different from those of modern Christianity.
Wow gee it's almost like Judaism and Christianity are different religions!
>The point still stands, the Bible is completely arbitrary and only forms a coherent belief system if you squint really hard and ignore all the bits you don't like
The point doesn't stand at all, and you pointing out a few scrolls that aren't canon doesn't prove this at all.
>>29983178
No, I'm not missing your point, I get what you're saying. Yet, you can't demonstrate that this is true, and there's even evidence to prove that this isn't always the case.
You can't take things like "Okay, so gravity is a law, as far as we know it always works and can be predicted" and try to apply that to something complex and barely understood like the human mind. To make a statement like that, you first have to at least have an explanation as to how we work, and why individuals in the exact same situation, or so extremely similar that you'd expect them to be the same, can come out drastically different.
>>29983285
>If you want the faith you are asking for, you must lower yourself so that you may be carried up on His shoulders.
I have thrown away my pride and not relied on human works to carry me through. Yet here I am still abandoned sheep with an absent Shepard. I can only hope I get eaten by a wolf soon so it can end already.
>>29983285
I'm not afraid of his judgement.
I don't see why you think sky-grandpa has any power to judge me, either.
>>29983275
>My emotions and superficial beliefs are confirmed real
They really, really aren't. Pretty much everything people state here is provably false, even down to the basic "Women are all whores" thing, when data shows that they actually don't have more sex than men.
Christianity answers some questions that otherwise don't have answers. Case in point, the idea of the unmoved mover.
>>29983285
But you're not completely, you've said stuff like "you can't be virtuos without the church", which isn't true at all. The church doesn't have a monopoly on virtue.
>>29983275
We all face with ugly truths in one form or another, and faith is by far the most effective way to deal with them.
>>29979941
Is this a fresh new meme?
>>29983346
So you face truth using uncertainties and may-bes?
I can't find any other way to describe such attitude other than "refusing to see the truth for what it is."
>>29983336
I meant my own emotions. My ego. My unhappiness. Those are real things, not beliefs. I want to feel happy over things I do, not due to faith.
>>29983307
>Because you literally can't argue.
Why do you feel the need to act in an inflammatory insulting way? I've clearly displayed that I can in fact argue with you, but stated that I don't desire to, after I refuted your points.
Do you also think that me not wanting to fight a three year old is because I couldn't? I'm simply not interested in arguing with someone that's more focused on winning than actually having a meaningful discussion, as demonstrated by statements such as
>that was the second half of your point. nothing else follows after that phrase
When I clearly stated the groups that aren't considered official Christian churches don't count
Or
>you are being unbiblical and heretical right now.
Despite you demonstrating next to no understanding of the bible. I'm simply not interested in throwing away another few hours in arguing against these levels of points.
Also, I really have to point out how dumb this is
>Are you sure? God is omnipotent after all? Are you saying we can figure out some rules that can constrain him?
Being omnipotent doesn't mean you can do things that are completely mutually exclusive. You can't have free will and the inability to act in certain ways at the same time, because they are completely opposite concepts.
>>29983275
>My emotions and superficial beliefs are confirmed real.
How so? Because they feel real?
God need not be proven because God exists regardless.
Faith in God is not a 'comfy uncertainty', it is fear and trembling. The familiar physical world, your emotions and beliefs, are comfortable 'truths'.
>>29983326
You lie, you still ask for relief.
>>29983331
Because God is absolute and God is just; He is the arbiter of creation and those that reject Him will be allowed to be separate from Him until Dies Irae. You are afraid.
>>29983336
I said you cannot be virtuous without Christ because virtue without Christ is just vanity. An atheist serving a charity is doing so for selfish reasons. A better example: a man spreading Christianity because it makes society more cohesive, not because he believes in any of it, is not virtuous.
>>29983393
>Those are real things
Because you have deluded yourself into thinking that.
>"refusing to see the truth for what it is."
Ironing
>>29983271
> salty? im not allowed to state my opinion?. what does a screenshot that you wrote yourself prove? 120k a year, my trustfund pays more and i dont even have a job.i dont care for neither.
You're allowed to state your opinion, but you asked what the demons offered me and I showed you. Also, are you suggesting that being wealthy grants you moral authority?
>>29983309
> I don't know the exact reasons, though I'm sure there's been an explanation if you choose to look. Things aren't canonised because they're interesting though.
I did choose to look. The reason was politics, plain and simple.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-orthodox_Christianity
> Wow gee it's almost like Judaism and Christianity are different religions!
Your ignorance is astounding. The non-canonical Gospels were EARLY CHRISTIAN texts. They are GOSPELS, explicitly describing a very different kind of Jesus than the canonical gospels.
> The point doesn't stand at all, and you pointing out a few scrolls that aren't canon doesn't prove this at all.
So the canon is valid because it's canon, right? Great reasoning, there.
>>29983309
We didn't know how to control or recreate the human mind, but we know what it's made of, we know how those bits work, so it isn't wholly unreasonable to believe that it works in a way that is predictable given the knowledge of the STATE of each component at a single moment, which is the difficult bit. We also don't fully understand how the parts interact.
To use an example, it's like having a clockwork machine the size of mountain everest. You know how each individual part works, and you know how they COULD interact, but it's so massively complex it's nearly impossible to actually predict outcomes.
>>29983393
>I meant my own emotions.
Well that's true, and I apologise for misunderstanding that point.
But if those things make you unhappy, why do you cling to them? Why do you view your ego as so important when it's the thing that makes you unhappy?
>I want to feel happy over things I do, not due to faith.
As do we all, though I'd argue faith is something you do. But you shouldn't act like just believing makes you a good person, because it doesn't. I know many Catholics that act terribly, are cruel, dishonest and don't at all act in a Christian way. You do need to be a good person to be truly living in a Christian way, and I think that even without the religion, the rules set out are useful for becoming just that.
Fuck off christfag, you fuckers should return to the desert you came from. You've brought nothing but pain, destruction and oppression.
>>29983336
Honestly, the whole "unmoved mover" thing is totally obsolete. It was developed from old and outdated notions of physics which have since been disproven. There is no such need for a thing like this in Newtonian physics. "An object in motion will stay in motion..." So, there is no problem if the universe was always in motion.
>>29983418
And now you're just fearmongering.
God can go fuck himself if he thinks he of all things has any moral ground to judge me.
No Gods. No Masters.
Only Man.
>>29979941
daily reminder that God doesn't care about men. It's OK to cuckold them (like Joseph) and set them up to be tortured to death (like many Christians).
If God exists why doesn't he show up right in front of me and save me from my misery? Why must I have to go through so many produceres and ritual just to know he exists? Why can't he just show himself to us, and make us know that he exists?
>>29983418
>I said you cannot be virtuous without Christ because virtue without Christ is just vanity. An atheist serving a charity is doing so for selfish reason
You see, I disagree entirely. The church doesn't own virtue. Someone can be Islamic in beliefs, and do great things, and I don't think it's fair to argue that they are vain for doing these without Christ.
The holy spirit exists in all of us, no matter our belief. We can act in ways that are considered virtuous without recognising this. You won't get to heaven on that alone from my understanding, but you are still virtuous.
>>29983410
If you can't refute what I'm saying then can't argue or debate and just have beliefs that cannot be defended. I'm sorry you have to discover it this way.
>When I clearly stated the groups that aren't considered official Christian churches don't count
How many churches do I have to see before this "not the true church" excuse stops?
>Despite you demonstrating next to no understanding of the bible
it's literally a Bible verse. tell me how it is misunderstanding the Bible. go on. tell me how God's word is wrong.
>Being omnipotent doesn't mean you can do things that are completely mutually exclusive. You can't have free will and the inability to act in certain ways at the same time, because they are completely opposite concepts.
hahaha by nature miracles also oppose logic and concepts. how can seven loaves of bread and fishes be multiplied feed and hundreds? if God can bend laws of mass and conversation surely he can create a good world with free will? He is the Almighty after all he can create a square circle if he wanted to.
>>29983418
dude you really are some retarded amalgation of punishment complex.
even Jesus asked God to let "this cup pass from me" and wonder why he was forsaken. he knows this is human and an understandable response.
>>29983446
>why do you cling to them?
Because they are the truth. I don't run away from uncomfortable truths. I face them.
I know some people find comfort in the way of Catholicism life, the rules and all. I probably follow them as well considering my culture. Don't lie, don't cheat, don't kill, don't steal, tell the truth, be generous, nice, charitable, etc.
But even all of those don't make me happy. I need to feel loved to be happy, but not by someone so grand that I can't even see. It does not feel real.
Want me to be honest? I want to be loved, I want to matter to someone human, God or Jesus can't fulfill those.
>>29983447
>2016
>believing christisnity to be a source of bad
Stay bluepilled
>>29983426
>I did choose to look. The reason was politics, plain and simple.
That's not stated in your article at all, the reason given is that the works were intended to be purely CHristian, not the words of those who belief other things.
>Your ignorance is astounding. The non-canonical Gospels were EARLY CHRISTIAN texts. They are GOSPELS, explicitly describing a very different kind of Jesus than the canonical gospels.
Can you please give an example of this? Because the Old Testament isn't where we find speeches relating to Christian morals.
>So the canon is valid because it's canon, right? Great reasoning, there.
Yes? The canon is what we consider to be Christian lore because it's what we consider canon.
You're acting like going "This is a book in the harry potter series because those that own it decided it was canon" is retarded.
>>29983437
>We didn't know how to control or recreate the human mind, but we know what it's made of, we know how those bits work
But we don't. The brain is very poorly understood, we barely know beyond "If we poke this, this happens". We don't really know how it works at all beyond what it's made of and what those do.
We don't understand the brain or the human state anywhere near well enough to say that it's purely what defines us, or that we can predict its development even if it was.
>>29983447
Did you know that most Charities in the West are funded by the Vatican? Or that most of the churches money goes towards humanitarian purposes?
>>29983458
>It was developed from old and outdated notions of physics which have since been disproven
How so? We still know that nothing comes from nothing, and that potential energy is just that until something acts on it.
And you can't just regress infinitely as your argument, as we know that certain things can't be created, and that as I said, nothing comes from nothing according to the laws of nature. The universe can't simply have just always been, because it is inherently natural.
>>29983503
Because you have a purpose. Your purpose was that you were put on this earth for people like me to laugh at and thank god that I'll never be as pathetic as you.
See? Everybody has a purpose!
>>29983462
>Only Man.
gay
>>29979941
It's like I want to believe in the christian faith, but i feel like my mind wont let me. But I'm still terrified at the thought of burning in a lake of fire.
I always worry about that, so I do the only thing i can do and heed this advice.
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
>>29980263
>You don't necessarily need to believe in le magic sky fairy to appreciate the philosophy behind living your life in a way that follows the teachings of Jesus Christ, the only perfect man who has ever lived. But to not appreciate the timeless philosophy found in the New Testament or to not at least give it a chance, you are missing out on the knowledge that is more likely to uplift you and guide you towards salvation than any other method that is accessible to us as mere men.
This desu
>>29983426
well a screenshot doesnt prove anything, i can tell you im a unicorn and post a picture of a unicorn and it doesnt make it so. im not here to argue morality because morality its subjective. if you worship demons, you have no morality because they lack it. im sure that 90% of problems on earth are because of them. i dont pick the losing team. if theyre all powerful i thought they had the authority to grant you a better paying job, you could easily attain a 120k paying job with a college education, you sound like a smart individual that doesnt need to resort to supernatural beings to help you. from someone that has been there and has family that practices the occult (palo mayombe) at the end its a bad deal, its all gravy at first but youll see the repercussions sooner or later, when it happens youll remember me.
SAVE ME FROM THIS MISERY JESUS
>>29983426
>the demons offered you minor wealth
Ass deal, maybe you should stop deluding yourself.
>>29983446
You cannot be good without God, you cannot be good while rejecting His church.
>>29983447
Entirely false, do not delude yourself and speak lies.
>>29983458
There is no proving or disproving in physics, because it is irrelevant. Aquinas used rationalism to justify Christianity, but ultimately understood it is by Sola Fide and not by any ephemeral perception.
>>29983483
Delusion.
>>29983503
Why do you believe yourself righteous enough to expect God to appeal to you? You do not know, it is faith not a delusion of knowledge or any other form of pride that the path to God is laid.
>>29983462
There you go, putting your childish pride above all else. God defines the moral ground and its peak and trough, you are glorified dust and for your pride will return to dust; and on Dies Irae you will experience the fear and trembling of His judgement and still be saved.
>>29983510
And I tell you again that a man without Christ cannot be virtuous. Your opinions do not matter. Purgatory is not salvation, it is a place of cleansing and preparation for Dies Irae. What else is Purgatory but the means to show that a man's greatest sin is just ephemeral?
>>29983520
>dude you really are some retarded amalgation of punishment complex.
You are illiterate, then.
>>29983531
You are delusional, Christ is human. You reject his love because you don't want love, you want false love and beautiful nothings whispered in your ear after a night of sex so that you may justify your pride.
>>29983658
Morality is not subjective, it is God's will, because God is just; and it is objective because God is absolute.
>>29983520
>If you can't refute what I'm saying then can't argue or debate and just have beliefs that cannot be defended. I'm sorry you have to discover it this way.
I'll ask you again. Why do you feel the need to act in such an inflammatory manner? What stops you from being able to act in a civil way?
>How many churches do I have to see before this "not the true church" excuse stops?
Just go to a church considered a local Catholic parish under whoever your regional Diocese is. I guarantee they won't turn you away, not the administration at least.
>it's literally a Bible verse. tell me how it is misunderstanding the Bible. go on. tell me how God's word is wrong.
You didn't give any bible verse, you took me out of context for this point. I assume you're talking about Galatians 5:17
>For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.
Which doesn't say it's the nature of man to sin, as we are our spirit, not our flesh.
>if God can bend laws of mass and conversation surely he can create a good world with free will? He is the Almighty after all he can create a square circle if he wanted to.
Do you not see the issue here? Multiplying some fish isn't doing something inherently not possible. It's not creating two completely exclusive things in a way that they can co-exist.
>>29983531
>Because they are the truth. I don't run away from uncomfortable truths. I face them.
What's the truth? Your ego? Or your beliefs? Your ego exists and hurts you, so why cling to it? If I hold a hot stone in my hand, I don't cling to it and allow it to burn me simply because it exists.
>But even all of those don't make me happy. I need to feel loved to be happy, but not by someone so grand that I can't even see.
This is your pride talking. You don't want love, you want recognition from someone. You want to be assured how great you are.
>>29983691
I HAVE NO FEAR
GOD SHOULD FEAR MAN. FOR MAN IS ALWAYS IMPROVING AND WILL EVENTUALLY SURPASS GOD'S PERFECTION
WE ARE OUR OWN GODS NOW.
>>29983691
>You cannot be good without God, you cannot be good while rejecting His church.
This isn't supported by any biblical source from my knowledge. Someone who sins while Christian is still a sinner. And someone who acts in a good way while not Christian is still virtuous.
>>29983691
im not arguing Gods morality, i meant morality is subjective to human beings. people have different levels of what is immoral and what is not.
>>29983651
There's nothing to stop you from praying, anyways.
>>29983713
That analogy makes no sense, and it's dumb. Hot stone in hand is not the same as not facing harsh truths.
Yes, it is my pride. I want to be taken into account. I want to be loved. Is that bad, to want to feel like I matter?
>>29983726
Dust does not improve.
>>29983729
And as I said, virtue without Christ is just vanity.
>>29983742
That is ethics, not morality.
Ethics is one of the prides that must be suspended.
>>29983757
You do matter, perhaps if you also read my posts instead of ignoring me you could see your folly.
No Man but Christ can ever love you, what others call love is ephemeral. You do not want love, however, and it is blatant.
>>29983757
>That analogy makes no sense, and it's dumb. Hot stone in hand is not the same as not facing harsh truths.
No, it's completely on topic. Your ego is the stone here. It makes you unhappy, and yet you cling to it for no reason, simply because it exists.
>Yes, it is my pride. I want to be taken into account. I want to be loved. Is that bad, to want to feel like I matter?
No, it's not, it's human. But it's also prideful to want someone to constantly validate you simply for existing. Those that deserve recognition get it, but generally don't desire it. Or they don't do it for recognition at least.
You don't want love, you want someone to convince you that you're great.
>>29983795
>And as I said, virtue without Christ is just vanity.
Well, I hate to be rude, but as you said, your opinions don't matter. It's not said anywhere from my knowledge that you can't be virtuous without faith.
>>29983754
what do you mean?
Making this post an origianl comment
>>29983835
I am not voicing opinions here.
>>29983613
You misunderstand. In Newtonian physics an object can be either still or in motion, and will remain in said state until something else acts on it. It doesn't say anything about an object's default state. Therefore, it is fully possible to have something remain moving as it is to have something remain still if that object was always in its given state. That said, if the universe was always in motion, there is no need for an unmoved mover.
>>29983691
What do you mean "no proving physics?" Newtonian physics is a theory, which means it is at the point where it can't be disproven. You know, if every invention post-Newton wasn't enough proof for you already.
And yes, it does matter, because Aquinas developed his axioms for his arguments from Aristotelian physics.
>>29983691
>You are illiterate, then.
nope you're just a retarded faggot who thinks he has moral high ground yet doesn't even know the Bible fishing for (yous)
>>29983713
I am a bitter jaded believer. Also I am not pulling any punches so a Christian can absolutely destroy what I'm saying and change my mind with little to no doubt. which has not happened.
>Catholic
I am Baptist because I don't believe in praying to Mary, saints and so on. I also think the Pope is kinda a globalist cuck. I grew up in a catholic school and also felt their worship is robotic and obligatory in a ritualistic way that most Catholics leave their christianity at the parish door. I will consider it.
>Which doesn't say it's the nature of man to sin, as we are our spirit, not our flesh.
https://www.openbible.info/topics/being_born_in_sin
I'm talking about the concept of creation and original sin. Where we are all sinful by nature which is the reason why Jesus' had to make his sacrifice in the first place.
>Multiplying some fish isn't doing something inherently not possible.
Well why hasn't anyone multiplied fish since then? We can also use the Trinity. Being 3 entities yet one person existing seems like a logical impossibility. Why suddenly shirk away when free will is mentioned?
>>Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Revelation 3:20, KJV
Sup brah.
>>29983835
What's a man without ego? A slave.
What you call ego I call self-worth. If you don't have any ego, you might as well not call yourself human.
I want to be validated by someone who loves me, and to love that someone and validate her, not to convince myself I'm great but to know that people can actually love me.
You're completely wrong.
>>29983857
Inventions are not proof, do you not hear yourself speak?
>>29983866
>nope you're just a retarded faggot who thinks he has moral high ground yet doesn't even know the Bible fishing for (yous)
Why are you projecting? I have done nothing but reflect scripture, and you have done nothing but contradict it.
>>29983871
You are already a slave to your ego, you must sacrifice your ego. Why do you continue to ignore me: because the truth burns you.
Does jesus forgive me for all the furry porn i fapped to?
Is that even really evil?
>thread themes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmrQHRnT4Mw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJelOS-fjrY
>>29983871
People cannot love you, only Christ can because the moral concept of love is vain and ephemeral.
You do not want love because it terrifies you in its awesomeness, you want beautiful nothings and a piece of ass.
>>29983909
Where does it say asking for relief is evil? most Bible stories are about God delivering his People from bondage and suffering. I have not seen a mention of God saying that his followers should just "eat dirt and suffer" not even having a shadow of a thought to pray for deliverance because that apparently angers god.
>>29983854
Can you support it with a biblical quote then?
>>29983857
>In Newtonian physics an object can be either still or in motion, and will remain in said state until something else acts on it. It doesn't say anything about an object's default state.
So then why bring it up? It's not relevant. According to your theory, something can't just change with no reason.
>That said, if the universe was always in motion, there is no need for an unmoved mover.
But, according to current scienfitic understanding, it can't be. You can't just change for no reason, and you can't just use infinite regression as an argument, as any natural thing must have a beginning.
>>29983866
>I am a bitter jaded believer.
It's really evident, but I'd appreciate if you were at least civil, I've extended that respect to you.
>I am Baptist because I don't believe in praying to Mary, saints and so on
Well, I'd argue that Catholics venerate mary rather than worship her, but I get your point. I simply mentioned Catholic churches because they're pretty regulated, your priest needs to be appointed, he can't just start a church.
>https://www.openbible.info/topics/being_born_in_sin
Most of these quotes just say we all sin, which is true. No-one's without sin.
>I'm talking about the concept of creation and original sin. Where we are all sinful by nature which is the reason why Jesus' had to make his sacrifice in the first place
Original sin is slightly different from how I understand it. It's more saying that we have the capacity to sin, we're not considered to be responsible for that particular sin.
Also, from your source
Ezekiel 28:15
>You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you.
>Well why hasn't anyone multiplied fish since then?
Because it's a miracle? If we could just do it whenever, it wouldn't be a miracle.
cont
>>29983958
Stop thinking you know what I want.
For such a Godly man, you're very prideful to think you can know what I want.
>>29983535
>>29983613
>>29983691
Explain
this originality is ruining the effect of my single word response
>>29983909
Of course inventions aren't proof, not alone at least. But when you get to the point that when every invention bases itself off of a theory, works, and continues to work, even after literally thousands of years since its original inception, while at the same time, no other hypothesis originates or manages to out-do said theory, there is a petty good chance that theory is correct.
>>29983976
>it can't be
Why not?
>>29979941
You can tell that sky zombie wizard jew to come down here and square the fuck up and catch these hands
FOH boi
>>29983866
>Being 3 entities yet one person existing seems like a logical impossibility
This is slightly false. The trinity speaks of the three aspects of god. God is all of those things. He's also not a person, so the same rules don't really apply.
>Why suddenly shirk away when free will is mentioned?
Anon, I explained this already. If you restrict actions, you don't have free will. It's not a matter of "Well god should have done it", but a matter of our definitions. You can't have both.
>>29983871
>What's a man without ego? A slave.
And a man ruled by his ego is just as much of a slave as any without it.
>What you call ego I call self-worth. If you don't have any ego, you might as well not call yourself human.
It stops being self worth and becomes an over-inflated ego when it makes you unhappy. Everyone should have self worth, but that should be a positive.
>I want to be validated by someone who loves me, and to love that someone and validate her, not to convince myself I'm great but to know that people can actually love me.
And this is prideful. Love isn't about proving your worth to yourself, it's about giving all you have to someone. You want someone to validate your ego.
>>29983995
The dark ages didn't exist, any real understanding would show you this.
>>29984007
>Why not?
I'm not a physicist, but we know for certain that things that make up our universe, energy and the basics of matter, can't be created or destroyed, simply changed. I don't know why this is though, but I'm sure someone more educated would.
If he loves me, why did he make me black?
If he loves me, why did he make me ugly?
If he loves me, why did he make me have no friends?
If he loves me, why hasn't he sent me a qt virgin gf?
>implying Jesus saved me that one time I almost drowned
Nice try though
>>29983995
>source is http://nobeliefs.com/
Top lel m8
>>29983995
>hurr durr we wuz romans
cool fake graph d00d
yeah the christians didn't preserve ancient texts from barbarians and develop completely new schools of philosophy (including the scientific method) or anything like that
>>29983973
It is not evil, it is selfish -- pride.
One must lower themselves to be lifted up onto Christ's shoulders. Stop ignoring my posts.
>>29983980
It is not pride to understand what lies in the heart of another man. You say what you want, yet you do not understand it and delude yourself into believing any Man but Christ can love you. Lust is not love; an ephemeral and shallow 'love' is not love; a piece of ass willing to whisper sweet nothings to keep you close is not love. If you truly wanted love, you would give yourself to Christ
>>29983995
dude meme pic i saw on leddit is true
There were no 'dark ages', scientific progress is not a good thing and it is highly dogmatic of you to think it is some objective good.
>>29984007
Empiricism does not confirm empiricism. Leave your idolatry elsewhere.
>>29984026
Stop replying to the pseud that claims to understand Christianity and scripture but contradicts it in the few posts he has made.
>but I'm sure someone more educated would.
Knowledge is a myth of pride, no scientist or theologian or artist knows anything but the ghosts they have created.
Jesus is a hippie faggot. Here is a list of better gods to follow:
-Parun
-Ahura Mazda
-Odin
-Osiris
-Wiraqutra
-Inti
-Quetzalcoatl
-Shiva
-Clint Eastwood
-Ei
-Yahweh (Old Testament Emo Warmonger Version)
-God Emperor Of Mankind
-Leto Atreides
-Anu
jesus touched me
>>29984067
>Stop replying to the pseud that claims to understand Christianity and scripture but contradicts it in the few posts he has made.
I'm not certain who you're referring to here.
>Knowledge is a myth of pride, no scientist or theologian or artist knows anything but the ghosts they have created.
True, knowledge isn't ever absolute, but I'm trying to come at this from the same perspective he is. I don't personally think that going "But humans don't really know anything" will be convincing. But I do understand what you're saying, I Think.
>>29979941
this is the reason why Christianity ever got popular at all before Constantine adopted it as the official religion of his empire.
Christianity was a religion almost exclusively for criminals, the homeless, women, and poor assholes, because "Jesus forgives you for being a criminal."
>>29979941
go back to /his/ christcuck, stop raiding /r9k/
>>29984026
>I'm not a physicist, but we know for certain that things that make up our universe, energy and the basics of matter, can't be created or destroyed, simply changed.
Well, conservation of matter, isn't entirely accurate. If you take matter and anti-matter and mash them together, they disappear, but for all intents and purposes, this is the case.
Also, we know Newtonian physics is true because the math checks out, and any attempts to disprove it have failed.
>>29984067
You're right. But do you know what does confirm empiricism? Effective results and prior probability.
>>29984124
>Well, conservation of matter, isn't entirely accurate. If you take matter and anti-matter and mash them together, they disappear, but for all intents and purposes, this is the case.
Source? And from my understanding, we know next to nothing about anti-matter or how it works or what it does. Certainly not enough to say it destroys matter.
>Also, we know Newtonian physics is true because the math checks out, and any attempts to disprove it have failed.
It's a good thing that newtonian physics don't actually disprove what I said at all then, isn't it? In fact, none of the science you've brought up does.
>>29984093
>
I'm not certain who you're referring to here.
See: >>29983866
Appealing to his inherently incompatible perspective will not help him, the only way to help them is to tell them what they must to and trust they will one day do it when they have grown past their youthful pride.
>>29984096
Is this supposed to be a bad thing?
>>29984124
>Effective results and prior probability.
That's empiricism, you do not hear yourself speaking; you prefer to hear your dogma over the truth because your dogma is simple.
>Also, we know Newtonian physics is true because the math checks out
You mean the mathematics based upon presumptions? How can a man of logic support mathematics based on presumptions and empiricism based upon presuppositions?
If jesus really loves me, then he should give me these doubles
>>29984029
So what better way than faith in salvation to help you deal with these issues?
>>29984142
>Appealing to his inherently incompatible perspective will not help him, the only way to help them is to tell them what they must to and trust they will one day do it when they have grown past their youthful pride.
Oh. I see what you're saying somewhat, but I feel as if it's always our duty to try to help people understand if they don't. We shouldn't abandon anyone that's in need as long as they express any desire to find it, and he did say he'd look into Catholicism, which says to me he does want advice.
>>29983848
(meant to reply sooner) you don't necessarily have to believe in something to pray to it. A lot peoples' prayers have begun with "God, if you're real...". It's that sort of thing.
>>29984165
>trying to test God
Mundane pls.
>>29984193
So, if you just do the one prayer of "Jesus save my soul from damnation" You're pretty much set forever?
>>29984223
No, but one prayer is better than none.
>>29984239
One genuine prayer, that is.
>>29983976
>>29984026
>It's more saying that we have the capacity to sin, we're not considered to be responsible for that particular sin.
It still seems Biblical to me that we are all tainted by a sinful nature through Adam and Eves actions which was allowed by God and known to Him to happen
>>Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned
>If we could just do it whenever, it wouldn't be a miracle.
You were arguing that it could be physically possible so it doesn't defy logical concepts yet it does violate laws of physics and energy so its as irrational as having free will and goodness at the same time.
>so the same rules don't really apply.
Trinity can only exist as a concept so it's also illogical. If He can exist impossibly 3 in 1 why can't he make free will and good exist 2 in 1.
>If you restrict actions, you don't have free will. It's not a matter of "Well god should have done it", but a matter of our definitions. You can't have both.
He does not even have to restrict actions. He has omniscience and omnipotence. He could've structured reality in such a way that people just chose good all the time. Like a light turning green just as you reach the curb. Or simply not putting a snake or tree in Eden. Or created humans with weak arms not capable of violence and low libidos. There's already genetic variation that has those traits so it's not completely "taboo" to him.
>>29984142
while referring to me in third person as an example to puff yourself up is kinda shitty and prideful. also this is not youthful pride but age of seeing divine absence.
>>29984067
>pride
How is it prideful to ask for help? Isn't that the complete opposite of pride to know you are powerless and plead for aid from God. You're nonsensical af.
>>29983041
Because it is just a bad bet altogether:
>win if God is real, lose if not real
>lose if God is real, lose if not real
Why not go for what is literally your only chance?
>>29984251
>>29984239
how so?
Wouldn't I still essentially be a (for the most part) non believer?
>>29984140
Anti-matter is pretty much the inverse of matter, as in, protons have a negative charge and elrctrons, a positive. Functionally, there is no difference.
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/antimatter.html
But the thing is, it kind of does. The laws of physics and the laws of thermodynamics forbid the possibility of a created universe.
>>29984142
Sure, maybe it's empiricism, but empiricism works. Surely you aren't going to deny computers, electricity, flight and innumerable other things, are you? Or the fact that you are using empiricism right now, are you?
And not quite. The math comes from observation, which works.
>>29984256
>while referring to me in third person as an example to puff yourself up is kinda shitty and prideful. also this is not youthful pride but age of seeing divine absence.
You project.
>How is it prideful to ask for help? Isn't that the complete opposite of pride to know you are powerless and plead for aid from God. You're nonsensical af.
No, you're just illiterate. You do not want help, you want (you)'s.
>>29984303
>Surely you aren't going to deny computers, electricity, flight and innumerable other things, are you? Or the fact that you are using empiricism right now, are you?
Empiricism does not confirm empiricism, you need empiricism to confirm the existence and function of said things.
>but empiricism works.
It doesn't, it's folly and pride.
>The math comes from observation, which works.
Because you say it does? And no, the basis of mathematics is fallacious and presumptuous. The basis of empiricism is presupposing (you are doing it right now.)
>The laws of physics and the laws of thermodynamics forbid the possibility of a created universe.
Too bad they are myths of pride.
>>29984251
True, if you say a prayer repenting for whatever but don't actually care less, it's pointless. A lot of people think that repenting just means saying sorry, but it's really not.
>>29984256
>It still seems Biblical to me that we are all tainted by a sinful nature through Adam and Eves actions which was allowed by God and known to Him to happen
It was allowed by god because of free will though. You stop people from being able to act in a certain way, you stop free will. We're not tainted by sin, or haven't been since the death of christ from my understanding. We're born pure, or at least are once we're baptised.
>You were arguing that it could be physically possible so it doesn't defy logical concepts yet it does violate laws of physics and energy so its as irrational as having free will and goodness at the same time.
You're missing my point. Free will and restrictions on what you can do aren't physically impossible, they're completely opposed concepts.
Also, you can have free will and be good at the same time, you simply have to choose to be good.
>Trinity can only exist as a concept so it's also illogical.
What?
>If He can exist impossibly 3 in 1 why can't he make free will and good exist 2 in 1.
Are you ignoring me on purpose? I already said he doesn't exist as three separate beings in one person, it's three aspects in one creator entity. God isn't human.
>He does not even have to restrict actions. He has omniscience and omnipotence. He could've structured reality in such a way that people just chose good all the time.
You know that's restricting actions, right? If you can't choose anything else, you have no free will.
>>29984223
Maybe, I'm not an expert. But you could also pray about other things.
>>29979941
DUDE
JESUS
LMAO
>>29984291
You would be, but it's still moving you closer to God. Regular prayer is really easy though, and really cathartic.
>>29984303
>The laws of physics and the laws of thermodynamics forbid the possibility of a created universe.
No, they forbid the idea that it just came from nowhere. Energy cannot be created by any natural means. It's converted from potential to other forms by outside influence. This is what the laws of physics tell us.
The only way for the universe to logically exist in our understanding of the universe, is for something that defies those laws to have caused it to happen. Read up on the unmoved mover before you reply please, because I feel like you don't understand it very well.
>>29984370
>>29984223
> So, if you just do the one prayer
Edit: Idk about praying just once. Salvation is usually viewed as a process that happens over time. (Although I believe it's relative to the amount of time someone has). The existence and practice of your faith makes you a better person.
>>29984328
How can you deny empiricism? You're literally using it right now. You are using your eyes to read my posts, and you used your eyes to read the Bible, that's called empiricism.
You also apparently don't understand how math works.
>>29984372
No, it doesn't. If the universe was always in motion, there is no need for a mover, because it was never still.
>>29984372
funnily enough, I actually did pray yesterday.
I was in a lot of pain and prayed for god to end my suffering. Not in like a suicide way but in a help me get over this way
>>29984410
Dammit I keep thinking of new shit to say: there was a man in the gospels that said to Jesus "I believe, Lord, please help my unbelief!". If you're that worried about going to hell for not believing, it seems like that might be a good place to start.
>>29984303
>The laws of physics and the laws of thermodynamics forbid the possibility of a created universe.
This is true. "Creation" is not necessary for reality. A growing popular theory is that if you put together all the matter and antimatter in the universe they will cancel each other out. Like an equation going back to zero. Though you will still have the problem on how that zeroed equation at the start got fucked into becoming the universe leaving room for a first mover.
>>29984328
It's clear you're here to puff your own pride and feel like you did a good deed even then you're bad at it. I only replied to three people at most in this thread. stop trying to make up ad hom to discredit.
>>29984340
>You stop people from being able to act in a certain way, you stop free will.
considering much of human life is dictated by genetic and circumstances we still don't have free will even then. not truly.
>We're born pure, or at least are once we're baptised.
You only get rid of original sin by accepting Jesus as Savior and Lord.
>they're completely opposed concepts
>What?
>it's three aspects in one creator entity
And? How does that change the chain in logic. It's still a logical impossibility that he's in two places at once or occupying the same space or human at the same time. Why can't free will and good exist in the same time then? These are equally opposed. How can something be human and God at the same time?
>You know that's restricting actions, right? If you can't choose anything else, you have no free will.
No. There's a difference. Like ordering one thing you like from a menu while other choices exist. The other choices don't go away.
>>29984429
>How can you deny empiricism? You're literally using it right now.
And a Marxist can own an apartment complex in New York. Study up on your epistemology.
>You also apparently don't understand how math works.
I do, you don't.
An axion is a presumption you illiterate.
God transcends your prideful logic.
>>29984166
The Hy believe in and worship some faggot that dragged me into this hellish existence, only to make me worship him 24/7 while he continues to give me nothing but pain and anguish, all in the hopes of spending eternity worshipping him in the clouds.
Fuck that
If I meet God, I'm kicking his teeth in
God is objectivily evil.
And so are the people who defend him.
>>29984482
supposed pic
Can i use faith as a numbers game?
Like others have said, hell seems like a bad place to go to if god is real. So can i get into heaven purely by playing the odds?
>>29984482
>It's clear you're here to puff your own pride
Stop projecting.
>considering much of human life is dictated by genetic and circumstances we still don't have free will even then. not truly.
You are not Christian, stop claiming to be. A man of God is not ruled by positivism.
>>29984497
You do not know what you say, you only say it because you think it makes people notice you. Take it to /b/ please, they can't tell a strawman from a tinman.
>>29984528
False, you are objectively evil.
God is the arbiter of creation, your shallow opinions mean nothing to Him because you are dust to His bellows.
>>29984485
So:
>Empiricism isn't real
>I used empiricism to draw this conclusion
Do you see why this doesn't make sense?
God transcends your prideful logic?
Why? Because you said so?
>>29984553
Looks like you can't say anything after all. And tried to save face by throwing that label farce.
Wew lad. Took you too long to concede.
>>29984543
It isn't a problem, it is a non-issue to Christianity. You are anthropomorphising God, ignoring the whole of free will, and subjecting God to arbitrary morality; He defines what is moral.
>>29984589
>Empiricism isn't real
>I used empiricism to draw this conclusion
Both of these are false, please read my posts instead of whatever you're doing now.
And regardless, I don't need to make sense because I am not subject to your ideological constraints.
>Why? Because you said so?
Because God is not subject to anything.
>>29984619
Stop projecting, you are not Christian, but a living strawman and general ignoramus.
>>29979941
Daily reminder that God doesn't exist and you are all deluded faggots.
>>29984640
>Because God is not subject to anything
Why? Because you said so?
>>29984553
>God is the arbiter of creation, your shallow opinions mean nothing to Him because you are dust to His bellows.
So is it God loves you or God thinks you beneath his notice. Which is it?
>>29984640
more butthurt ad homs.
>trying to throw the first stone
Wow it seems like you're the one who isn't Christian between us. Your pride and sin will find you out. You'd rather persecute in false self-righteousness and act in place of a Godly judge. You are wicked without a doubt.
>>29984645
You are the only deluded one here. Repent.
>>29984657
Because God is omnipotent; stop posting.
>>29984683
>no u tier argument
and this is why I avoid Christianity like the plague
it fucking makes your brain turn off
>>29984683
>Because God is omnipotent?
Why? Because you said so?
I'm only playing by your rules.
What do I do if I wish to be a Christian but I can't get myself to believe any of it? My old friend was the biggest athiest that I know but a few months ago he made a 180 into the biggest Christian l know. He's always been a little autistic, but it's unfathomably strange that he got himself to believe this.
>>29984712
Other way around.
I don't need an argument, don't you realize that?
>>29984727
He said so.
>>29984738
Give up your pride and positivism.
>>29984753
>I don't need an argument
Okay, I will remain an atheist and we will not argue.
>>29984775
You will remain an atheist because you're a prideful child.
>>29984753
>He said so
Well, if that's all it takes then I'm omnipotent too, and the President, and the Pope, and your mother.
>>29984826
God is not a human, He cannot lie. Stop strawmanning you fallacious twat.
>>29984791
>>29984753
>this false speaker is still replying
kek
all the accusations of pride is clearly becoming projecting
>>29984791
More like an arrogant, impatient asshole.
These are all good traits and I will keep them until I'm an old man.
>>29984841
Deluding yourself further will not make your delusions a reality.
>>29984843
They're objectively evil, actually.
>>29984870
>objectively evil
Where do you think you are, fag?
>>29984870
denial will only make acceptance and repentance take longer
>>29984834
I'm not human either, and I can't lie either. So there you have it. I'm omnipotent, the President, the Pope and your mother. And I'm also not strawmanning, because I'm omnipotent and I say so.
>>29984918
they're a hypocrite to boot going against John 8:7
>>29979941
man... wtf is this thread
>>29984943
it's where everyone comes together to have the same stuffy old conversations about how what you believe is shit
now tell us what you believe so that we can tell you not to
>>29979941
I almost drown once and there was no jesus giving me an hand.
I also have an awful life and live in isolation. This deity is omnipotent isnt it? I guess we are enemies then...
>>29984974
>mmmm
Man, the whole Jesus (Yoshua) story is bullshit. If you want the truth you need to know yourself and resonate with nature. Nuff
>>29985082
>resonate with nature
cool I'll be sure to stick a crystal in my anus
>>29984479
So i guess right now I'm still in the line thats on their way to hell.
