Why don't we cut social security?
People already paid into it. Why don't we cut your paycheck after you did the work ?
>>55437311
You clearly have no idea how Social Security works. The average person receives more than they pay in using real (inflation adjusted) dollars. This makes it unsustainable as currently structured, meaning something has to change before the people paying in can no longer support the people drawing out (around 2034).
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/
"After 2019, Treasury will redeem trust fund asset reserves to the extent that program cost exceeds tax revenue and interest earnings until depletion of total trust fund reserves in 2034, one year later than projected in last year’s Trustees Report. Thereafter, tax income is projected to be sufficient to pay about three-quarters of scheduled benefits through the end of the projection period in 2089."
The taxes collected today from working adults are used to pay for benefits today for retirees today. It is not a retirement account.
>>55437681
Of course people get more than they pay in. It's 40 years of investments. If I got exactly what I put in I'd be pissed.
But in reality, I'll get way less than I put in because I'm a gainfully employed white man with a well paying job. And I'll get orders of magnitude less money than the money I would have earned just putting 11% of my pretax paycheck into a vanguard index fund.
Fuck social security. Ponzi scheme to the max.
>>55437681
So fuckin what im paying into it now i want it later, you liberal faggot, leave ss alone cut welfare and corporate subsidies
>>55436785
Because we want to be more like Greece
>>55437763
>Of course people get more than they pay in. It's 40 years of investments. If I got exactly what I put in I'd be pissed.
I specifically said in inflation adjusted dollars. The SSA doesn't invest your money for a rate of return above inflation. It's not invested into ETFs or mutual funds.
>>55437813
You'll receive more than you pay in. This makes the program unsustainable as written. Furthermore, there is a specific tax for Social Security which goes into a specific fund for Social Security. There is supposed to be no crossover with other government revenue streams and spending. As such, cutting corporate subsidies does not change the state of the Social Security trust fund.
>>55436785
The bigger question is why do I have no choice to opt out?
If everyone else wants to be retarded and pay into a retirement plan that pays out less than what you pay in, fine, but I see that for the swindle that it is and don't want to participate.
>>55437813
you bitch
>>55436785
social security and welfare is for parasites. you don't deserve any money from the government: EVER.
>>55438095
It doesn't pay out less than you pay in given the expected lifespan unless you have relatively high income, but it does pay out less than putting the same money into ETFs for 40 years would net you.
>>55438153
Welfare is for parasites. Social Security Disability Insurance is intended for the genuinely disabled, but increasingly used by parasites entirely capable of working. Social Security Old-Age is something everyone who works pays for, but the compensation from which is neither balanced to be sustainable nor meets what is expected in the market.
>>55438153
>You don't deserve the money that you paid into SS.
Ok.
>>55437763
>muh vanguard index fund
I want this meme to die
>>55436785
Because having old people dying alone from starvation is not something that should happen in the riches nation on earth.
But yea! Tear this mother down! Down with the government! Down with regulations! Down with preventative measures!
Fucking swear this board literally cannot get any more retarded.
>>55437763
>It's 40 years of investments
Holy shit are you this retarded? There are no investment accounts, it is welfare just like food stamps. The whole point of it was to keep seniors out of abject poverty. It needs to be terminated and those seniors who need help and are unable to work should go on regular welfare.
>>55438153
>you don't deserve the money you paid into social security
fuck you
>>55438259
>It doesn't pay out less than you pay in given the expected lifespan
it absolutely does, given 2% dollar devaluation every year, go run the doubling time math and find out how long it takes the value of the money to get cut in half. it's thievery.
>>55436785
>Why don't we cut social security?
Yes, give the boomers another reason to not retire.
>>55436785
Because it my money and I want it now.
No, it's literally my money. The government made it illegal to not put money into their savings accounts and now they want to steal it from us? Fuck that.
>>55438565
To bad you won't see any of it.
>>55438483
>muh entitlements
You are being taxed to provide welfare to people above a certain age right now. Why do you have a right to the fruits of the labor of the next generation? Do you also collect medicare, food stamps, WIC, etc. because you paid into them as well?
>>55438442
It's half-way between welfare and a retirement account. Democrats explicitly oppose means-testing to make the program more sustainable precisely because that would make it a full welfare program and such status invites real cuts or systemic changes. The current system fools people into thinking they're investing into a real retirement account and creates backlash when any politician suggests changes.
Within the next 20 years, payroll taxes will have to be raised, benefits will have to be cut, and/or the system will have to collapse. Change is coming and we can name the date, but not the change.
It would help if everyone had a job and didn't live above their means. We should also cut welfare. Social security is legitimately government theft. People need to learn how to save their money instead of being stupid with it.
>>55438565
>put money into their savings accounts
There aren't any accounts. Why is this so hard to understand? It is a tax to pay for a welfare entitlement for seniors.
The usual argument is that "people already paid into it, so they deserve their money"
That implies that the victims of a SS cut aren't responsible for the situation they are in. If you are 67 years old now you have been voting since 1966. You had 49 years to vote and elect people who would be good stewards of your money.
But you didn't, and now you want millenials to pay an ever expanding gibsmedats program while you sit on your ass for the next 40 years.
They wanted their programs, they wanted their pork spending, they wanted their interventionalist foriegn policy that has nothing to do with our primary mission (free navigation of the sea). And now that the money is gone, they push the National debt meme in an attempt to keep millenials from using fiscal policy properly (we actually had negative inflation in the first few months of this year). Because a properly working, expanding economy won't let them coast for the rest of their ever-lengthing life on the fixed incomes they set up for themselves.
So much entitlement.
>>55438614
It really isn't. It is pure welfare. They take your money and send it out the door immediately. If there was an account with your name on it, this would be a very different issue.
>>55438616
But that would mean every jackass couldn't buy a new dodge ram 4500 XT to drive to work in
that's unamerican
>>55438648
The idea was that investments would provide inflation years down the road for people retiring, like savings bonds. The government didn't follow through on their promise and kept borrowing from it, which fucked yo the system. The term "social security accounts" is a phrase used by the social security administration to refer to your SS investment account.
If the government is incapable of maintaining social security after decades of theft, they should pay out to everyone and abolish this compulsory program. But, they can't, because they don't have the money, because they're criminals.
If cut, it would have to still be around for the Seniors or late-middle age workers who've been blindly paying into it their whole lives, but to anyone younger, nothing bad would come from forcing people to learn how to take control of their own long-term finances and how to invest, or at the very least, know where to look to find an agency that will maximize their investment without having to check it more than once a week.
I think long-term investing should be taught in high school. Even Microeconomics is too broad for the average person who will never own a business, but a mandatory Personal Finances course would do wonders for the American economy.
>>55436785
Cuz it gets votes
>>55438787
My family does firewood in the autumn and winter for city yuppies and suburbaniggers (and a few elderly people in our town) and we don't even have that. We have a truck from the 70's and it works just fine to haul cut firewood where it needs to go.
Why would anyone drive to their soul-sucking office job in a giant truck?
>>55438819
>The idea was
>Trusting the government ever
The program is failed and should be abolished immediately. I realize it sucks, but no one on this board is old enough to be able to claim they didn't know it was a scam. Unless you are just about the to retire, the value of canceling the program now is far greater than the small to zero amount you will get if/when you reach whatever high retirement age they have set by then.
>>55438912
I have a little Toyota for me and my family and we do just fine. I can't imagine driving one of those giant tanks.
>>55437311
Retirees receive WAY more than they have paid in. Why should they expect more than they contributed?
>>55438932
I was born in the 70s and we didn't learn about them stealing from it until the 90s. But it's illegal and automatic so it's not like anyone has a choice.
Abolish it.
>>55438963
Why should anyone expect the Government not to take from money blindly handed to them? It'd be like expect a Cat not to eat from a specific open can of tuna because his open can of tuna has his name written on it.
>>55438402
No one said that. It just needs to be cut. Also, some people aren't thrilled to have the government in control of that money rather than themselves.
>>55438988
I don't think most people realize what it would mean for them. Social security and medicare are a combined 15% as you pay 7.5% and your employer pays a matching amount. The two programs are also the largest expense the federal government has. They dwarf the oft mentioned defense budget and any other welfare programs. They form a combined 1.5 Trillion dollars or 43% of the federal budget. SS alone is over 800 billion and 23%.
>>55439201
"I'm from the government and I'm here to help". They're job programs and petty cash for our government.
>>55438594
>lolbertarians
Let the free market sort it our right? Cant wait for private prisons and private courts to become a thing. Think of all the free time i will have being locked up for jaywalking.
>>55439764
>socialists
The government will take care of me. I knows best how to manage my money.
>>55439818
>It not I
>>55436785
No need. Around 2030 or so it will be entirely depleted and no one in Congress gives a damn. Every year they vote to stick their fingers in the pot a little deeper. By the time you and I retire there will be no social security.
>>55439818
>lolbertarians
The jewish corporations will take care of me. They know how to use my money better than me.
>>55436785
We should. Let the old fucks die already. Fucking boomers are responsible for all the shit wrong in this country. Inb4 millennial bashing.
>>55439864
You do realize that pensions haven't been a thing outside of government for decades now, right?
>>55439929
I like my mom though.
>>55436785
I'm in favor of raising the retirement age for younger people
>>55439864
More like:
>Libertarians
I can take care of myself and don't need anyone to help me as long as the government also doesn't steal from me completely and leave me to where I actually need the help from them because of them leaving me completely dependent on a state that overreaches everything it does and controls
>>55439955
I was more talking about how corporations put profits first and people last. I kind of enjoy haing clean and maintained roads and clean non-contaminated water to shower in. See if lolbertarians had their way we would have only rich areas being worked on and maintained while poor areas (white people can be poor)neglected.
Social security is important for the countries development. You didn't build the contry alone, you just want that little part of your min wage job back because you are an ignorant manchild
>>55440100
What would you know about being a developing or developed nation Peru?
>>55440019
>guvment is ebil
>jew corporations are gud
Haha enjoy your shitty roads and polluted air and water goy. Hope you dont cry a river when your house burns down because you didnt pay the fireman corporation your monthly bill.
