Recently found myself interested in the US civil war. I don't know much about it, as it generally isn't a thing taught here, more focus on the War on Independence. So would any burger be able to give me a bit of info on your war?
Was slavery really a big thing in the war or is it just a meme?
Bunch of faggots in the South basically wanted to keep slavery while the North was like nah so they got pissed at each other and actually believed that they could kick the North's ass even though the North was far more advanced through industrialism so the South lost and the union stayed together freeing niggers in the South. Its also good to know that really a small percent of white people in the South actually owned slaves the logic behind the Southerners was that they would eventually get rich and be able to own slaves later on in life which is why the South was pro-slavery even though most of the people were poor af without industrialism, they just wanted to eventually own niggers even though most of the Southerners would never even be able to afford it. It was a pretty stupid war that the South was obviously going to lose so meme lmao.
>>71765925
>Was slavery really a big thing in the war or is it just a meme?
No
Slavery was still legal in the Union
>>71765925
Slavery was just one of many reasons for the civil war, for some reason people want to think in terms of one big reason behind everything though. A lot of it has to do with what /pol/ might call "Jewish tricks", considering that war costs money and the states go into debt over it. After the civil war, persons became corporations and corporations became persons, so instead of buying and selling niggers directly cash on the barrel, everyone became collateral in the stock market. So now we all have birth certificates that lists us as imported cargo under British Maritime law instead of natural citizens under common law.
>>71768073
I thought Lincoln abolished it, although i have seen quotes of him apparently saying he did it to keep the Union together, don't know if that's a real quote though.
Just listen to this and tell me you don't like it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OKdbc0DYpM
>>71765925
The Civil War was as much about slavery as World War II was about the holocaust.
Watch Ken Burns' amazing documentary The Civic War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Civil_War_%28TV_series%29
Shelby Foote is a red pilled Southerner who wrote massive volumes detailing the war, if you prefer written work. He features prominently in the Burns documentary and is great to listen to.
>>71768510
>People like to think in terms of one big reason
Seems to be the same thing when people talk about black people today. They try and say that all their shortcomings and shitty culture is white people fault, when I'd say fatherless homes is one of the biggest factors.
Interesting though, I'll have to look into what you're talking about thanks.
Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years.
At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer. If it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen we must live through all time or die by suicide.
>>71765925
I'll give you a cheeky spoiler. The civil war was the Zionists taking America.
>>71768636
The 13th was not ratified until the war was over
>>71768702
Thanks Spaniard, will listen to it in a bit.
>>71768762
Do love documentaries so this will be pretty useful, thanks.
Also any of you have any other good civil war songs, been listening to Kelly's Irish Brigade and the Fighting 69th, although i know one is South and latter North.
>>71765925
Watch the civil war by Ken burns. Please just do it.
>>71769114
Ah okay, will have to read a bit more on the Civil War and the aftermath.
>>71768636
The emancipation proclamation only freed the slaves in the Confederate States, while the border states between the CSA and USA were allowed to keep theirs
>>71765925
Slavery was about number 5 on the list of reasons for civil war but it has since becom part of the myth of the nation, the noble lie.
>>71769249
I agree.
It's a refreshingly unbiased view of the war.
>>71765925
>War on Independence
>on
Kek.
>>71765925
It didn't start out as being about slavery but Lincoln made it about slavery in order to sway the masses
Thanks anons for the info, realised just how little I actually know on this subject, will take a look at that Ken Burns Civil War show when I can.
>>71769618
>tfw even when i'm sober I'm still drunk cause potato nigger
>>71769202
>Also any of you have any other good civil war songs
The best American song in history, the Battle Hymn of the Republic.
>>71765925
The north pulled a bunch of shit to try and stop the spread of slavery to the new western territories. The economy of the south depended on slavery. The north's goal was eventually to end slavery in the south, which would destroy their economy (at the time). The south did not like this, because they figured that states have a right to make their own laws, and no fucking northern factoryfags should be able to impose their own moral standards (child labor is a-ok, slavery bad) on states hundreds of miles away, destroying their economy in the process.
The south seceded from the union because they saw the north as trampling over their right to autonomy, specifically in trying to end their practice of slavery, upon which much of their economy was founded. The north said "no, you can't secede from the union".
So the war was about slavery, kind of - the south was fighting for their right to make their own laws, free from overbearing federal control, because they needed slavery to keep their economy alive and the north was trying to stop it. The north was fighting to prevent the south from seceding.
The way that it is often taught/seen in the US is "the north was glorious and moral, fighting to free the slaves, while the south was evil, fighting to keep the slaves", but that's not really accurate - the north was fighting to prevent the southern states from leaving the union, while the south was fighting for their sovereignty, particularly because they wanted to maintain slavery. The Emancipation Proclamation was not some glorious act to free the innocent slaves - it freed ONLY the slaves in the south, as a weapon against the economy of the south, and it was signed during the war, not before or after. Lincoln thought black people were inferior but that slavery was morally wrong.
So it's complex, but the black-and-white moral struggle that is usually written is a meme, for sure. This is part of why the south is still so butthurt over it.
>>71768510
retarded tinfoil garbage
"show me your corporate charter"
"am I free to go"
get your sovereign citizen bullshit conspiracy theories out of this thoughtful and intelligent discussion board.
>>71765925
It was as infinitely more complex situation than it is represented as today, you really have to read up on the times leading up to the war before you even start on the war itself to try to form your own picture of whats driving people on both sides.
The most important things though are
1.) Never let anyone convince you that slavery wasn't the major factor in sparking it.
2.) Never let anyone convince you that slavery was the reason people were actually fighting it.
Slavery was the hot button issue that ignited the conflict for sure, but its definitely not the cause that drove thousands of poor southern farmers to send their breadwinners off to die for slaves they didn't own.
Also, "the War Between the States" is a much better name for this conflict than the "American Civil War". A civil war is two or more sides fighting for control of a country- this was an attempted secession to create a new, separate country. It was never a goal of the Confederacy to conquer the north and rule a united America. It was no more a civil war than the American Revolution was.
Abe lincoln used the slavery meme to create the union
Went down south and absolutely trashed the place
Slaughtered people, burned villages and farmland
After the war the North ruled over the south, they weren't actually a part of the United States.
There are still towns that will not accept you if you're a northerner
like they won't serve you at restaurants and shit
Most people won't even look at you
>>71765925
Federal government wanted more power.
>>71765925
>Was slavery really a big thing in the war or is it just a meme?
Yes, it was. Not to say state's rights weren't an issue but it was intrinsically tied to slavery.
>>71768636
Lincoln only moved on slavery half way through the war after a series of confederate Victories
>>71770023
Glad I caught this before I left, was pretty interesting burger, like most times history is written by the victor.
>>71770360
I'll keep those in mind when looking up thanks.
Got interested in this when I noticed during the All Ireland final, the rebel country Cork had fans who constantly flew the flag. keked when I thought that we fly that flag with pride, while in America it's shunned by a lot of people. I'm off now, again thanks to all. Might pin thread to see if any of you continue to post. Bye guys.
>>71770511
Southerner here, he is right. Some areas actively reject any Northern or Western idea violently.
>>71768762
>Watched this on netflix
There was no chill only enlightenment
>>71765925
It was about two different groups getting so mad at each other, until they finally just had it out. Trying to force people to associate with those they hate will not succeed. Polarization will always lead to violent outcomes. We are coming to one now. Sorry, "Progressives", you won't be missed. Not a single one of you. If you know what we mean.
>>71770630
source?
>>71770842
You may find this man of interest
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Cleburne
>>71770849
>driving through south w/ dad
>stop at cafe
>lady behind counter
>sheriff at bar
>asks where we're from
>I say illinois
>"must be northern illinois"
>Sheriff doesnt even look at us
>leave
pic unrelated
>>71770489
This is true, the majority of the battles occurred on southern land until the outnumbered south realised the only way to win was to win a battle on northern soil and get foreign support
Basically, not long after creating an outpost on the west coast by faking a gold rush and selling immigrants empty promises of becoming rich, the elites crafted a plan to displace southern farmers westward and "free the slaves" so they could build a railroad. Within a decade of the civil war we had a trans continental railroad, the north had fixed its population issue, southern farmers moved west and that put us in a better position to kill the rest of the native Americans.
Slavery was absolutely the main cause of the Civil War. Because of the way our government is set up, the number of states is very important. You get two senators and two electors in the Presidential elections just for being a state. The Three-Fifths Compromise, where slaves were counted as 60% of a person for purposes of determining the number of lower house congressmen a state could have also allowed the South to build up an undue amount of political influence. So number of states and size of population was massive in apportioning the political power of a faction, and the South could clearly see that they were about to lose their privileged political position as free states grew in number and total population.
In 1820, they first agreed to set a line above which new states would be free and below which new states would be slave. There was more territory north of the line than south however...
In 1848, America took Northern Mexico in a war that many felt was demanded by the South in order to again balance out the number of slave and free states. Southerners also plotted to send mercenaries to Central American and Caribbean countries to annex them as future slave states.
In the 1850s, right as they had finally run out of territory to expand slavery in, the Southern senators managed to convince Congress to get rid of the line altogether and let states decide for themselves via elections to be free or slave. Kansas, the next state in line to join, was immediately flooded by people from neighboring slave states who were paid by plantation owners to vote slavery in over the objections of the natives. Violence broke out, and that convinced most Northerners that slavery was an evil institution that had to be choked off, leading to the Republican platform of all new states being free states and Lincoln subsequently being elected without a single electoral vote from any slave state in 1860, whereupon they tried to leave.
>>71771230
Yeah, both forays into Northern territory (both major tactical blunders by Lee) we're complete and utter failures. Manpower played a factor, and since the US' best generals tended to be on the Confederate side (Lee, Jackson, Longstreet, Beauregard) (trained at West Point), they tried using strategies geared for large armies of regulars, rather than a ragtag group of militiamen and Johnny Rebs. The composition of the Confederate Army was not geared for invasion, rather it was best suited for defensive war (Manassas is a shining example of this).
>>71765925
Here's what happened.
>Be America
>Gain independence
>Start to industrialize
>North goes first, South wants in
>North says no, causing South to become economically dependen on Slaves
>North takes advantage of cheap cotton from South for textile industry
>[fuckNoWeDontWantThemToMakeTheirOwnLinens.jpg]
>South starts selling to England
>North tries to restrict rights of Southern states over trade
>South pissy over first being denied industry, and now free trade
>Secession Music plays
>War wages
>McClellen tries to free slaves
>Lincoln gets pissed "This is not about slaves"
>McClellon removed from post
>England thinks about helping South
>"THIS IS TOTALLY ABOUT STOPPING SLAVERY" - Lincoln spouts to save face
>Cover works because emancipation proclamation and Gettysburg victory
>War ends
>South vilified for years
tl:dr Fuck Lincoln
>>71765925
Also, the major problems stemming from the Civil War were not direct consequences of Lincoln, but of his two successors, Andrew Johnson and Ulysses S. Grant. Their radical reconstruction efforts turned southerners against freedmen and led to the creation of groups like the Ku Klux Klan. Race issues via slavery existed, but were not a major issue (many freedmen owned slaves). It was the post war reconstruction that caused race relations to deteriorate, as the Radical Republicans from the North tried to force Negro integration into southern society, whereas it would have been better to slowly integrate the Negroes into society, almost as a sort of an acclimation process.
>>71772092
It would have been better to keep them in chattel slavery positions, where 99% ot them belong.
>>71771655
>Missing the point this bad
Lee only lost at Antietam because a courier lost his battle plans which the North gained enabling a stalemate
then Lee was stuck in a shit position at Gettysburg because he had no intention of being there. He got caught there after a part of his army sought to raid the Union's Boot repository housed there and it simply escalated
An offensive war was the only way to win, an playing defensively was an inevitable loss for the South
>>71772092
All of this.
>>71771761
This is what Southerners ACTUALLY BELIEVE
Protip: The plantation owners who controlled the South didn't want industrialization. It would have made land more expensive and the creation of middle and working classes would have threatened their hold on power.
>>71772662
I'm from PA
Protip the Plantation owners were the minority of the population
this is a really balanced, intelligent, and informative thread
nice job /pol/
>>71767560
A bunch of rich Yankee jews decided that there wasn't enough money in importing slaves to the south anymore (America's three biggest slave-ports were in the north east, including NYC) so they started building textile Mills and importing illegal aliens from Ireland to work the for slave-wages
This diluted the wages for white working men in the north, so the jews blamed it on slavery and the Republican party was founded to ship the niggers back to Africa and secure fair waged for honest white protestant working men.
Also some fringe lunatics (literally less than 10% of abolitionists) though niggers were people, but nobody cared what they thought.
The fight over slavery became defined by pro-slavery types trying to secure new slave states to the west, while abolitionists tried to ban slavery in new states; this was because both sides knew that whichever camp had the most states could bully the other camp into submission.
>>71773738
Thus a low-intensity war began between Jayhawk (abolitionist) and bushwacker (pro-slavery) militias in Missouri and Kansas. This was some jihad-tier shit, with a lot of scalpings and hackings to death with machetes.
Some of the aforementioned fringe lunatics fought in these conflicts, gathered a group of buck niggers and kitted them out with muskets and machetes and led them on a rampage through the south slaughtering women and children and inciting slaves to do the same. This is what southerners had warned would happen if slaves were freed, and the actions of these radical abolitionist terrorists disgusted many on both sides of the mason-dixon.
This period of low-intensity conflict convinced many southerners that resisting the imposition of northern values was a matter of life or death, because they would have to live under the feet of the nigger if he were freed, as happened in Haiti where the entire white population was butchered by slaves.
So, long story short, the Yankees armed a bunch of irish illegal aliens and sent wave after wave of them to their deaths until they drowned the csa in their blood, much like the soviets in WW2.
Almost the entire white male population of the south fought, and they inflicted 2 casualties for every one which they suffered, and they were still beaten by sheer numbers, despite being better led, more motivated, and fighting on home ground.
>>71773798
After the war, Lincoln planned to ship the niggers back to Africa like he promised, but he got shot so the Republicans under grant (a murderous, ignorant, and spiteful drunkard) decided to impose "reconstruction" on the south as punishment.
They disenfranchised any southerner who had fought in the war (as mentioned, nearly all of them) and gave the niggers the vote. This produced the only elected republicans in the south until the 1970s, and also the first black politicians.
The blacks and Yankee carpetbaggers lorded it over the white southerners for about ten years, protected by a permanent force of occupation troops. The KKK was formed by CSA veterans as an anti-occupation insurgency.
Finally, in the mid-1870s, Rutherford B. Hayes openly stole the presidential election and cut a deal with the south, which was ready to start a second civil war at this point. The deal was, accept his presidency and he would pull out the bluecoats and let southerners vote again. They agreed and the occupation force withdrew, leaving the blacks to the tender mercies of those they had ruled over for ten years.
May blacks fled to the north, which is why black people can be found in places like Kansas City, Harlem new York, Detroit, and parts of California.
Jim Crow was enacted to ensure that nothing like reconstruction ever happened again, and to keep the blacks in line.
Meanwhile, the jews continued to import new populations of papist slaves to work in new kinds of factories, and everyone lived happily ever after.
>>71765925
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=Y2hjY3MuazEyLm5jLnVzfG1yLWhpZW1zdHJhfGd4OjU5Yzc1ZDU2ODgxYzA1MGY
This and Ken Burns' The Civil War should paint a pretty clear picture for you.
>>71772966
And? Jews are a minority of our population, doesn't mean they don't control the government.
>>71765925
Less than 1% of southern Americans owned slaves.
So, in terms of mobilizing men to fight, not much.
There was a massive outcry in the south over the Federal Government trying to mass confiscate massive amounts of property and completely circumventing state law.
The US civil war was really when America stopped being America and became a Jew proxy.
Everyone who thinks degeneracy didn't happen till the 70's don't know what the fuck they're talking about.
>>71773258
>this is a really balanced, intelligent, and informative thread
>>71773738
>A bunch of rich Yankee jews...
>>71768702
Sounds Irish
