What would have happened if Hitler hadn't sperged out and invaded Russia while doing battle with Britain?
Could Hitler have won the war? Or would the outcome have been the same in the end?
Discuss
>>72025675
>forcing Romania to give Hungary almost half of Transylvania
karma like pottery
>>72025675
Russia would have Invaded and encroached on Polish territory regardless. Conflict between USSR and Nazi Germany was an eventuality. It's because Hitler understood this he preemptively launched Operation Barbarossa. The only way Hitler could have won WW2 is if the US had not gotten involved.
Hitler would've run out of fuel and resources trying to take Britain. Even if he managed to secure the islands. an insane gorilla war by the English would've inflicted monstrous casualties on the occupying Germans. The U.S would've stepped in, and Hitler would've asked USSR for help.
The English are one of the best fighters in the world and their country is a fortress just because of the nature of it's terrain and its geographic location.
Hitler knew he needed to secure more resources and manpower before he could even dream of occupying London. That is why he attacked Russia.
>>72025822
Polish territory? You mean our territory that was occupied by Poland? They still hold part of it
Do not believe polish lies
>>72025822
>Russia would have Invaded and encroached on Polish territory regardless.
No
>Conflict between USSR and Nazi Germany was an eventuality
No
Germany could won the war if only they hold the line Arhangelsk - Astrahan.
>>72026122
>an insane gorilla war
What a sight :^)
>>72025675
Union with us and war against Britain had more chances then war against us.
>>72025675
If Hitler hadn't sperged out and invaded Russia, Russia would have likely allied with Hitler
>>72026293
But you were fucking commies, mate.
>>72026496
Like it's a bad thing.
>>72025675
>le invading Russia was a choice meme
>>72026421
No, Stalin would've sperged out and invaded Germany as soon as he felt his army was well armed and prepared. This is why Hitler took the first strike.
If it weren't for the US getting involved with Land Lease and the Russian winter (which was a record cold that year) Hitler would've had a parade in Moscow.
>>72026421
Stalin was already preparing to attack him, he knew that he needs to attack first. The advances germans took in the first months of war are to the fact that soviet army was preparing for attack, not for defense.
And in the end it wasn't France, Poland or England Hitler was after. His Lebensraum lied in Russia.
>>72025822
>Polish territory
No such thing.
>>72026496
We still are more left then right or center. It wasnt a problem for you in 30-th
You are from Austria? Tell me please about elections.
after June 40 :
>not doing the Battle of Britain (1700 planes and pilots lost)
>I launch the Afrika Korps immediatly and coordinate the attack with the italians in september 1940
>I am at suez in november
>I push through the middle east and have those sweet oil fields by december
>I push Turkey to join the Axis, willingly or not
>mfw I have a new front ready for Barbarossa
>launch barbarossa in june 41, quickly take the caucasus oil fields
>mfw the russians have no fuel for their T-34
> mfw I win
>>72026614
>Stalin was already preparing to attack him
lol
>>72025675
>Could Hitler have won the war?
>Hitler
>What is Dunkirk evacuation?
>>72025675
Russia was going to invade at some point. The fact that the German Army did so well for so long is because they were caught flatfooted.
There is no chance Hitler could have won as evidenced by Spain and Portugal remaining neutral since the beginning.
>>72026602
>No, Stalin would've sperged out and invaded Germany
Lol no.
>>72026711
Right wing president won first round. Now he has to win 2nd round when all media will be against him.
>>72026293
>>72026711
Hi I'd like to tell you something unrelated to your posts. You are using the word "then" the wrong way. Your english is very good so I thought I'd tell you. There is "then" and "than". "then" is used for time. such as,
I went swimming THEN I went dancing.
"than" is used to tell between 2 things, like
I would rather go swimming THAN go dancing.
I hope this helps make you an even better english speaker. I'm learning a foreign language so I thought I'd throw that out there for you.
>>72026882
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Krasny_Bor
>>72026896
>>72026772
Please elaborate lads
>people in this thread seriously believe Stalin would have invaded Germany just like that
None of you understand Stalin.
>>72027063
Thank you.
>>72027069
We didnt have plans of invasion. Army wasnt ready industry too. We had a hope to delay war (5-10 years). Also Germany wasnt ready too.
>>72025675
Of course. Barbarossa was his demise, along with randomly declaring war on the USA.
He could have won it quite easily (and this has been discussed at length in threads like these)
>Encircle, besiege and starve major cities instead of storming them by force
>Focus on the hub of the entire USSR, Moscow, leave Stalingrad alone for the time being
>Be prepared for winter
>Do not declare war on the US = way less Lend-Lease, which basically kept the USSR going
>Focus on quantity: a couple of trustworthy, mass-producable tank types, instead of overengineered tech showcases like the Tiger I and II
He was 12km from Moscow. All major railway convened there, which were the backbone of the Soviet armed forces (with US-built rolling stock). Capturing it would have meant the end. Russia is a big place, but that works both ways.
>>72027069
Barbarossa caught the soviets off guard. After the initial assault they had to move all of their manufacturing back behind the Ural mountains. If they were expecting it they'd have put their manufacturing in a safe place beforehand and wouldn't have been pushed back as far by op Barbarossa as they were.
>>72027395
>He was 12km from Moscow.
nooooooob
>>72026185
Oy vey...
>>72025675
>Could Hitler have won?
Germany could have won. Hitler was fucking idiot
>>72027069
Stalin was actually busy turning agriculture country into industrial one.
Finland company showed how weak Red Army actually was at the given moment of time. There was no military buildup to support any form of large scale invasion versus Germany. Pure defensive military doctrine.
>>72026750
This. He should have invaded mid east through turkey. The end.
ITT: nazibooos
>>72027395
Why did he declare war on USA again?
Japan Pearl Barboured because of embargo, but why did Germany join?
>>72027867
>Hitler was fucking idiot
Old joke. He became an idiot after Stalingrad and summer of 44.
>>72026122
>their country is a fortress
Hastings anyone?
Can't fucking win Russia, won't people learn?
Even Bonaparte failed.
Of course Russia would have attacked Germany in time. But no, the failure of the soviet army at the start of the war wasn't due to "planning for attack instead of defence" It was due to "Planning to have months if not years to plan before either". The soviets simply were not ready for war at the time Hitler attacked. That's why he did that. Every month he would have delayed, the stronger the soviets would have been.
The only flaw in the plan, was that he delayed it too long. The flaw with the execution of it, was that they stopped attacking at points. The single way to beat the soviets at that time was to hit them so hard and so fast they couldn't respond. It was to be in all their major cities before they could counter attack and force them to surrender before they even fought. Hitlers delays allowed the soviets to catch their breath, allow the allies to ship supplies over. The second that attack faltered, was the second that the Germans lost the war.
>>72025822
No, Russia did the bulk of the work, don't delude yourself.
>>72027697
Granted, 12km from the outer suburbs is something different than 12km from the Red Square, but you can't deny he was very close. This has even been heavily used in Soviet/Russian propaganda to enforce the idea how the victory was very hard won.
>Just northwest of Moscow, theWehrmachtreachedKrasnaya Polyana, little more than 20km (12mi) from Moscow;[51]German officers were able to make out some of the major buildings of the Soviet capital through their field glasses.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Moscow
Sorry for the Wikipedia source
>>72027155
Bro, archives were declassified years ago. Every russian newspaper was dehumanizing Hitler already in June, aerodromes were built on border and tens of tank armies were unmanned on border waiting for offensive.
The reason Stalin didn't believe germans really attacked and ran away to his dacha for 4 days like a whiny baby when his country needed him most (this fact is little known in the west) is because he was about to attack himself and simply couldn't grasp the fact Hitler completely outplayed him by a couple weeks. If not for 3 to 1 manpower and terrain advantage Stalin would've been fucked.
Don't listen to russians, they're good people but this is a defensive psychological mechanism to deny facts that can hurt your kin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClR9tcpKZec
>>72028016
Allies, Hitler was very loyal, excpt with Stalin.
>>72028016
Because of treaty obligations with the Japs. Which they themselves blatantly disregarded with respect to the USSR, giving the Soviets opportunity to weaken the east to strengthen the west. So, Hitler BTFO'ed himself for nothing in return, out of honour. He was truly the Ned Stark of his days, if you don't mind the lame reference.
>>72028444
>The reason Stalin didn't believe germans really attacked and ran away to his dacha for 4 days like a whiny baby
Popular myth. Check out visits timetable.
Germany would've won if Canada hadn't gotten involved.
Calgary and Winnipeg rifles took most territory on D-Day. My grandfather with them. You're welcome free world.
>>72028671
They could've managed without us.
Youre acting like an American bro.
>>72028619
>>72028522
But Japan was in war with China before WW2 started, didn't Germany have to fight with Chinese too?
I probably know the answer but I want some other opinions
>>72028016
Pact with Japan.
>>72028384
They had about 80 divisions near Moscow. And kept them there until 43. Also Leningrad was in terrible siege (my grndparents were in Leningrad grandmother had a duty on the roof to keep it from fire sha was 8 years old)
The main aim was Arhangelsk-Astrahan. Kavkas oil and our allyear seaports.
We kept that line it was the only way to win.
Near Volokolamsk germans were stopped
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-QBqT9RQAM
>>72028799
Nope. Youve been lied to by American history fellow canuck. They were hopeless until we showed up at Vimy ridge.
>>72028671
lmao
>>72028807
"Pact of Steel" signed in 1939 is what solidified your alliance, there is probably a different word for this in German, but the point is no one was obligated to help each other until 1939.
>>72028671
>D-Day
>Fighting children and old men
I bet your grandfather was a cuck
>>72028996
Thank you leaf
>>72028876
True, but Vimy did not win the war, it just put us on the path to do so. Im not saying we weren't instrumental in winning, we were. But to say the allies would've lost without us is a stretch.
>>72029061
You're welcome, friend.
>>72028649
LOL, this is what I'm talking about. Just this week on russian /pol there was an authentic photo of a document where Stalin wrote with his own hand he'd execute chief of airforce for saying that Germans attacked USSR (after they already did). This is a psychological defence mechanism, while this is touching subject for russians they will deny the obvious, just like muzzies in europe say islam is peaceful, saying otherwise hurts your fellow muslims.
>>72029023
Actually my grandfather routinely led the charge. He pushed the germans back from the beaches of normandy across the plains beyond Ypres. Until they surrendered unconditionally. He was a Captain in his regiment. The Winnipeg General Rifles or "winnies" as they preferred to be called.
>>72028671
9/10
>>72025768
You seem to be quite retarded m8.
>>72028876
>Vimy ridge
You do know that was the first world war, and this thread is about the second right?
Canada's biggest thing during WW2 was Juno beach. Toughest beach of them all, but we had a bunch of tanks they didn't have at the other beaches. That last part they like to leave out of most lessons in our schools.
And vimy ridge wasn't all that impressive really. The only "big" thing about the Canadians there was that our british commanders got the bright idea that instead of doing the standard thing of "Shell the enemy and the field, then stop shelling and run across" the decided "Hey, we aren't doing the running here, it's the fucking colonials. Why not just keep shooting the entire time?" and somehow we Canadians thought that was a grand idea.
>>72029254
And captured Berlin. Unfortunatelly he lost maple leaf and my grandfather gave him his own flag
True story
Im not troll
This is the proof
>>72029450
While your people were busy raping everyone like savages my grandfather was first up and over the trench.
>>72029184
DESU, I don't know what are you talking about mr. bulba. You've stated that Stalin run to his dacha. I have pointed out that this is popular misbelief. Kremlin meeting book says that there were a lot of meetings.
>everyone falling for the "don't invade russia" meme
Well, newsflash fuckwad, Stalin would absolutely rape Germany just a few weeks later, Germany invading whole of Europe was just what he wanted, Stalin wanted a weak Europe, he wanted to see the red army marching through Brittany.
The German war machine was dead on its tracks, just because Stalin wanted it to fall.
Even if he did invade Russia, even if he didn't invade it at all, Germany was doomed.
The German military is most consistently overrated fighting force of World War II. The Wehrmacht was impressive in its victories, and still dangerous in its defeats, but it had some mind boggling flaws which the myth of German military genius and the "blame Hitler" excuse often served to hide. For their part, the Russians are underrated more than they're overrated. For the longest time they were seen as a blundering mass of men and tanks who just ground over the Germans with endless waves. The recognition of their operational skill and sophistication is a relatively new thing in the West and based on a much more thorough understanding of the Eastern Front since the end of the Cold War. The USSR were generally on the back foot until late-1942, but after that the Soviets repeatedly showed the ability to consistently out-general the Germans. The German high command repeatedly failed to correctly identify the time and place of major Red Army offensives, and was thus consistently unable to stop them, and then when those offensives developed they were always playing catch-up with the fast moving Soviet Tank Armies.
Just a disclaimer: This is just a strategical and tactical observation, nothing to do with ideologies.
>>72025675
Could he have won? I think the modern state of the west shows that Hitler won the moral victory. He was an uneducated buffoon, but he was right where it counted.
>>72029621
>raping everyone
Old russian tradition
Honestly, if the Axis had known what kind of resources were available in the Middle East, they'd have likely started there rather than rolling over France and hitting Russia directly.
And the world would have been a better place for it. Odds are things would never has escalated the same way if the blitzkriegs had been rolling over what is now Libya, Syria, and Iran/Iraq, especially if they'd left the area around what's now Israel alone. Hell, even Italy would have likely hung in there far longer without being the punching bag for the Allies.
Idiot, all Hitler every wanted to was to stop communism but fucking Britain had to get involved.
Fuck you Britain, fuck you.
>>72029649
sources or readings? You have my most interest
>>72025675
He had almost no chance, Russia would have invaded eventually. If Japan had done as Hitler wanted and started a simultaneous land invasion of Russia during Barbarossa there could have been a chance to subdue Russia and secure their resources and kill their leadership before they could organize any significant counter-offensive, but then you'd still have to deal with the fact that the USA and Britain were essentially unconquerable and there would be constant uprisings across occupied Russian territory, where Germany was completely overextended.
Best case scenario is USA doesn't enter the war until Russia is subdued, in which case Germany still has to spend a huge number of resources which they really don't have to try to invade Britain and force the USA back out of the war. There would be no way for Germany to secure a compete victory without some kind of compromise like releasing France, in which case you just set yourself up for another inevitable, horrible war a few decades down the road, or the war would just keep going and going for years and years in a stalemate if everybody refused to negotiate.
>>72025675
Heres a move that literally no one considers.
Support the Nationalist Chinese earlier on, break all agreements with the inferior Nips.
Allowing the Nationalist Chinese to beat the commies back into Russia, allowing them to be a natural resource supporter through Afghanistan and the southern route.
Perhaps garner a peace between the Nips and Chinese, prevent the genocide of millions of Chinese, allowing them to invade Siberia and make Stalin throw his suicidal forces against an equal opponent while the elite SS units puncture and undermine their entire communist structure.
Allow China to seek revenge on Japan, using US made weapons and supplies.
America walks away an economic super power still, Germany wins, China wins.
>>72025675
If he had relinquished Africa and used the corps to bolster the eastern front without attacking then yes. If he had succeeded in dropping Britain and then attacked Russia in early spring he would have been able to take Moscow.
Hell, he could have then attempted operation sea lion.
It would be a different world.
>>72029803
>all Hitler every wanted to was to stop communism
>>72029341
take a hike, bozgor
>>72029808
I cannot link you to any books, but I recommend reading about Operation Barbarossa and how it failed. Then read about other Axis operations inside soviet territories (Case Blue, battle of kursk etc..)
Read some stuff about Soviet Enginnering too, they weren't playing around, they weren't just a horde of endless men running to Berlin.
I can link you to some short videos by Extra History if you're interested, it sums up the advantages of soviet enginnering by using as an example the battle of kursk. (the largest tank battle)
>>72025675
Hitler hated communist Russia. He attacked Russia to halt the spread of communism.
Hitler never wanted to go to war with Britain. Britain declared war, and it was Britain who bombed civilian targets first. The Blitz was a counter attack.
I don't think Hitler would have won a campaign in Russia anyway. German tactics at the time we're all about lightning strikes. Hit hard and fast and move on to the next. The Russian winter bogged down their armor and drained all momentum
He should have fucking not let the Japs get trolled into bombing the WW1 relic fleet in Pearl Harbor.
Once those slanty-eyed fuckers declared war on the US it was all over.
>>72025675
>What would have happened if Hitler hadn't sperged out and invaded Russia while doing battle with Britain?
russia would attack germany and eastern europe letting germany without oil for the tanks and airplanes
>Could Hitler have won the war?
not with usa and britain against hitler
>Or would the outcome have been the same in the end?
no
>>72028136
>Can't fucking win Russia, won't people learn?
>>72028015
Hey, if you can cheer a mass murderer, professional criminal, terrorist and cruel dictator like Stalin, because he was so "based", so can we.
>>72026122
> run out of fuel
/thread, but the textbooks never tell you that....
Romania was taken for oil fields, barbarossa was to seize oil in Soviet Baku and magnese in Ukraine
they couldnt even use all their high tech shit when they launched the attack, they didnt even have enough fuel to retreat
>>72027867
>Germany could have won. Hitler was fucking idiot
>>72028136
Hitler was fucking Russia easily, the ONLY reason Russia won is because they got help from USA and UK
>>72027395
>Barbarossa was his demise
>>72026602
stalin fled moscow and hid in his Summer Dacha bedroom for the first week of the entire conflict with a mental breakdown
>>72030260
Lend lease support from US began before Pearl Harbor. Its was basically a declaration of war against Germany in march 41.
>>72029649
were the soviets working on cracking enigma themselves? I know the Poles and Britcucks did it basically independently, but I assume Russia had the best mathematicians. If they had secretly broken the German cipher this would explain what you wrote.
>>72026496
Nothing bad or wrong with it.
Nazi or commi = both were socialist. Nazi looks in the past for blood ang god. Commi looks in the future and space.
>>72026122
>Hitler would've run out of fuel and resources trying to take Britain.
Nigga you wrong. Fuel for fleet and aviation was enough.
>The U.S would've stepped in, and Hitler would've asked USSR for help.
Oh boy, wow! HITLER ASKING USSR FOR HELP.
>>72030490
Yes, what's your point?
>>72030237
would very much appreciate the link, thanks man
>>72030000
Not only was China literally an agrarian nation fighting Japan with feudal swordsmen in some places, it had a population just barely higher than USSR back then, 90% of which was rural and barely supporting itself with food. I suggest that you close 4chan and read history books at least.
>>72025675
Should have marched straight to moscow instead of splitting his forces to nowhere.
>>72030452
He literally did not have enough resources alone to take the territory he wanted, which is why he needed Japan to step up and start fucking Russia's ass to help out, that is the entire reason Hitler allied with Japan, to fuck Russia up.
But instead they chose to stay home during Barbarossa and bomb Pearl Harbor a year later and bring another colossal player into the war earlier than was desired, offering Germany absolutely zero assistance and overall harming the axis badly. The Japs were a worse ally for Germany than the Italians in my opinion.
>>72025675
Hitler wanted to take over Stalingrad, he wanted the city intact so he could say he owns STALINgrad. He should have just carpetbombed it and let his troops march south, to the oil fields
>>72025675
Germany would have had beat the U.S to nukes and turned the UK into a godamn piece of shit, kinda like it is now but with less people.
He could have kept most of Europe:
> If he didn't halt the Panzer divisions just outside of Dunkirk
>If Germany had developed a longer range, heavy bomber
>If he waited to attack UK and Russia until the ME 262 was ready
>If he hadn't killed/scared off all the Jewish scientists that went to work on the Manhattan project
>>72025675
considering that most of the germans that have died through the entirety of the war was after the war was over and they had surrendered, i'd say they had the soldiers but lacked conviction. on top of the fact there were many traitors in the top ranks of the nazi government and hitler was making many mistakes and being too ambitious. I'd say it would have been possible.
>>72026122
>>72026602
>gorilla war
>Land-Lease
3/10 bait
>>72025675
I don't think Germany could've beaten Russia. But it might be been possible to win by
1. Treating Soviet citizens humanely. Provide better living standard, which is not hard considering their original state.
2. Focus their effort on Moscow.
It would have been the same. Stalin was going to invade two weeks after Hitler did. Actually, it would have been worse. If Hitler didn't invade when he did, the Soviet Union would have annexed more of Europe than it did.
Icebreaker.
>>72030826
>Should have marched straight to moscow instead of splitting his forces to nowhere.
Look up Napoleon and scorched earth.
You have to realize that the war industy war far behind Moskow. It would have only been symbolic but no advantage.
It is nearly impossible to invade such a big county. How to resupply? How to fight irregular troops behind the line?
>>72030826
He needed oil from the Caucasus, hence why he targeted Stalingrad. Moscow could have absolutely not been taken without more resources. Even if Germany did manage to take Moscow, they would have exhausted every bit of fuel and manpower doing so and would still need to take Stalingrad to replenish themselves, which would have been 100% impossible.
>>72030917
>turned the UK into a godamn piece of shit, kinda like it is now but with less people.
hue
>>72027395
and the poles were literally in moscow
what's your point?
>>72026750
>not doing the battle of britain
I am against this
They should've aimed for factories, not infastructure.
>launch the afrika korps
yeah, well, no. the afrika korps shouldn't have been launched anyways, allying with (sh)italy in the first place was a death sentence.
>i am at suez in november
make sure the shitalians dont fuck up
>i push through the middle east and have those sweet oil fields by december.
and open up more fronts? lol
>i push turkey to join axis
ally with greece and they'll do it
>>72030801
Sorry for the cartoony style but it explains thing pretty well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-UvLZSK3CI
watch all parts
>>72030879
US did lend lease war declaration in march 41. Pearl Harbor happened december the same year.
What if the Italian army had been more efficient? Say Mussolini doesn't blow his load in Ethiopia and focuses on re-arming instead, doesn't invade Greece and generally does what Hitler tells him. Would that make a difference?
>>72027395
>He was 12km from Moscow
You know they didn't just stop right ? There was a battle of Moscow.
>>72025675
No because despite whatever man killing technology you have if you lack actual human cannon fodder you can't have a stable economy, army, or goddamn anything. We need mass immigration from third world countries to continue our countries existence vive le roi.
>>72030816
How am is what I'm saying in anyway incorrect?
German-Sino science relations went deep. They were forced to abandon them when the Nips demanded it. The Nips had been built up by the American and Brits for a long long time, and China was still on its heels from 2-3 multi nation invasions. The reason they lost their battles vs the Nips was infighting between Communists and Nationalists.
Even a well established Nazi saved thousands of people in Nanking.
If the Nationalist had the technological advantage, they could've taken the fight to Russia and Japan. They lacked engineers and scientific discoveries, but with German support I'm sure that they could've turned the tide.
Russia was very similar in many regard to population, and how they sustained their people.
Germany didn't need a win from China, they needed someone to pull the Rooskis off their border and make them attempt their own death march to defend Sibera and to attack the Chinese.
>>72030000
they would end up getting invaded by china and they had close relationships with the allies anyways
>>72030952
>If he hadn't killed/scared off all the Jewish scientists that went to work on the Manhattan project
Imblying they would've helped the Nazis develop weapons and their army, not sabotage it.
>>72030952
>trusting jews
Good goy
>>72026772
Its fucking true you Mongoloid faggot. Reconnaissance missions from Germany had discovered huge factories producing massive amounts of armaments and tanks that could only mean Stalin was getting ready for war.
I thought you Ruskies were smarter but you keep falling for Commie propaganda the same way /pol/ falls for Nazi propaganda.
>>72031381
>>72031465
Fair point, but at least the US would have not been able to build an atom bomb
>>72031380
Uh what? Actually there were two divisions in the Chinese at the time, Nationalist and Communists.
The Commies loved getting bent over by the western world and nips because it allowed their doctrine to flourish.
But the Nationalists had strong ties to Germany, in both Science and industry, that they were forced to sever with the Tripartite Pact.
>>72030916
Why should he want the city intact? A city only remains intact if there is no fighting in its borders. Hence Rome and Paris were evacuated.
In Stalingrad the soviets were always close to german positions. This disabled the advantage of combined air-ground warfare.
It was important because STALINgrad like Moskow it would have been a great propaganda victory.
>>72031252
The Italians didn't really have much strategic use to Germany besides preventing an invasion from the south. If they weren't shit they would have been able to fight off the allied forces in Italy, which really wouldn't have helped too much considering by the time the allies were fighting in Italy the Germans were already in full-retreat on the Eastern front.
The best thing the Italians could have done would be to maybe try to take the middle-east via the med and establish some steady flow of oil to Germany.
>>72031190
>>72031266
>The capture of Moscow would have severely crippled the USSR, almost deciding the outcome of Barbarossa
>Hitler came close to doing this
>The question was whether or not he could have won Barbarossa
This is not that hard to grasp
>>72031878
If you think the soviets would surrender after barbarossa you've been fooled
>>72026614
>Stalin was already preparing to attack him
Every time.
>>72031878
Look up Napoleon and where the soviet war industy was relocated to.
Do some research at least before making stupid claims.
Why did Hitler declare cities as fortresses? Because they are difficult to capture and take lots of lifes by doing so. What is the benefit? Only symbolic and to release troops to be used elsewere.
>>72031969
>severely crippled
Was Nana Mouskouri the last Greek able to read English?
>>72031969
This. Their production was all east of Moscow anyway, all that Russia would have to do to keep fighting if they were to somehow lose Moscow would be to move the leadership farther East.
There is just too much land in Russia for Germany to hold alone. Even a completely ideal Barbarossa, if it were possible without Japan (it wasn't), would have exhausted Germany to the point of complete collapse.
>>72030131
>putting jewish bolsheviks in summer camp
>not stopping communism
>>72032073
Another faggot who has bought into Commie Propaganda.
See: >>72031549
>>72025675
If Finland decided to continue past their territorial borders during Operation Barbarossa I am convinced the Germans would have ultimately won.
But of course the stupid Finns decided to stay back while smaller nations like Romania and Hungary, both with much inferior weapons including a lack heavy weapons and supply chains were in the operation to the end of it.
Italy was there to but they do what they always did, just fuck up consistently.. and they are partially responsible for why the Romanian armies as well as the Hungarian army got fucked up as badly as they did when the counter-attack on Stalingrad began.
TL;DR Finland didn't commit to the operation past their original territory, but the stupid cucks lost that plus more anyways so the idiots should have committed their forces to the effort to help reinforce Stalingrad, which could have changed the tide of the war in the East and ultimately the entire conflict.
>>72029621
You guys still think that Gemany lost beacuse of dday?
AHHHHHHHHAHHAHAHAHAHHA
>>72032141
A lot changed since Napoleon. Almost all north-south rail transport would have been impossible without Moscow in Soviet hands. Plus, it would have been an immense blow to Soviet morale and government stability.
>>72032159
No it wouldn't lad
>>72032187
Germany could have won, but not Hitler
>>72031549
Reminder that Suvorov-Rezun is literally a paid British shill, and that his writings are a conspiracy theory, not reflections of actual events.
>>72032395
If you fail to see that Moscow was the absolute center of the Soviet state and therefore war efforts, there's nothing I can do for you.
>>72032376
Mongoloids don't fight against their own.
>>72031786
>Why should he want the city intact?
Fuck i dunno.
But why is enemy at the gates, a thing?
Why didn't he carpet bomb it with planes, or use artillery from a small distance?
>>72032492
What you fail to see is that from the very first day of war Soviet propaganda strongly identified the war with war of 1812.
If Moscow fell, they would just continue with the analogy. It would be nowhere near the decisive blow to morale you imagine.
>>72032377
In fairness, in American schools (and war movies), the Soviet contribution to Germany's defeat in WW2 is either glossed over or completely ignored
>>72032492
Russia would have never let Moscow be taken without an extremely bloody fight, which would have diminished an already exhausted Germany to almost no benefit. They would still need oil, which would require seizing Stalingrad, which would have been another bloody battle with even fewer resources than the real battle of Stalingrad which was already a colossal failure.
Stalingrad was needed before a battle of Moscow was even worthy of an attempt, even if Germany were to win Moscow they would be badly diminished and unable to secure the resources needed to keep fighting anyone.
>Could Hitler have won?
>Could Hitler have defeated the entire Jewniverse?
>Could Hitler defeat the Jewnited Kingdom, The Jewnited Comrates of America and the Soviet Jewnion?
The answer is no.
>>72025675
Then Russia would invade Germany. Soviets were preparing a major army at the border and Hitler's only choice was to attack preventively.
>>72031294
First of all, nobody was very sure who is stronger back then and all faggots on 4chan saying that if Hitler could read the future and planned accordingly he'd win are hilarious. Second, USSR fend off Japan a year before German invasion, and Japan had very modern airforce back then. China very likely wouldn't march into Siberia even if no one was defending it because past capturing Vladivostok there is really nothing you can do with swordsmen if transsib railway is blown up. But again, this is assuming everyone teamed up against USSR, at the time no one cared about wasteland like Siberia, no one knew if USSR is strong or not, no one could read the future, how can't you understand this. Japan didn't attack USSR exactly because army staff concluded there are more resources in the southeast asian countries.
>>72032909
Another reminder that Suvorov-Rezun is a paid British propaganda shill, and that his writings are a conspiracy theory, not reflections of actual events.
>>72025675
Russia was the downfall of Nazi Germany. He shouldn't have attacked the USSR. He just got cocky and thought he was invincible (probably due to the drugs he was on at the time). He should've left Russia alone, unless they attacked him.
>>72033052
here you go again
they would've attacked him you retarded burger
did you even read the thread?
>>72032995
Fucking Ruskie cannot believe that their hero Stalin was preparing an attack. Fucking mongoloid faggot has been drinking the red Commie propaganda for a bit too long.
Listen to this recording with Hitler and Mannerheim you faggot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=77&v=plpd83wbzSA
The conversation indicates that HItler was surprised to the full extend of the Soviets armament. It indicates that they were already preparing for war. He describes that in 1940 they had discovered massive factories for tank productions.
STOP DRINKING THE COMMIE COOLAID
>>72032874
This much is obvious. If Germany wanted to stand a chance they needed more allies, they needed to focus on destroying communism instead of expanding westward and opening more fronts. If they had managed to find an ally in Britain (would never have happened, but they did try) they would have been able to stop the Russians, the US would have never entered into the war against Germany, France would be irrelevant (as usual), Italy would have been an unnecessary ally as nobody would have even tried invading from the south in the first place.
If Britain had chosen to ally with Germany, or at least not participate in the war, Germany definitely could have held the line against Russian invaders, but the Brits hated the Germans so badly after WWI there was no chance of this, they just had to contest the western front the entire war and allow the Russians to fuck everything up.
The biggest disgrace of the entire war was the western powers' general ignorance to the threat of communism. Had Hitler not even taken power, the entirety of Europe would have doubtlessly fallen to the communists, the modern free capitalist Europe literally owes Hitler for its freedom as ridiculous as that sounds.
>>72032700
Good points, but the war was fought on an immensely wider front than the 1812 one. Railway transport was essential for the way less motorised/mechanised Red Army, and transport along the north-south front line would have been severely hindered by the removal of the central hub: Moscow. The Germans would have gained a lot of extra 'play room" when the Soviets couldn't use their railway system, essentially being able to outrun and outflank them like they did in 1914-17.
I do agree with you, of course, that fall of Moscow =/= fall of USSR. They would have still posed a very real threat, but the worst hurdle would have been taken for the Germans. Of course, it should be seen together with my other points in >>72027395
To answer OP's question: yes, Barbarossa could have been won, but only when a vastly different approach along the whole duration of it. It's never as simple as "oh if he'd just taken Moscow, it'd be done"
>>72032807
No shit sherlok really? woa that a big news, not.
If i ask some randome murrifat today about Stalingrad i bet my ass off he will answer me with
>Muh stalin killed there 62 millions of Russians.
>>72033538
Keep going shlomo, you havent been discovered yet.
>>72034040
he put thousands of ethnic greeks in gulags because they were greek and because the greek government then was fascist
faggot
>>72025675
He might have won in the east but i would assume that would mean Berlin would have been Hiroshima.
>>72034251
Holy shit you are a retard. I give you legit evidence of one of the actual rare Hitler recordings where he discusses the Soviet state and you completely dismiss it?
Jesus, now I see how communism spread so easily in Russia.
>>72034338
who cares about greece any way?
>>72034644
i do ivan
and i thought we were friends
>>72025675
Churchill would've been dead by 1943
>>72034605
> I give you legit evidence
you just speculating on some retard conspiracy theory guy texts.
Noice
>evidence
Next time tell me how lizard people are in control of NWO.
>>72034040
Calm down Boris, I am sure Comrade Putin will restore Mother Russia to her previous glory
>>72034790
Russia dont have
>friends.
>>72033538
I've listened to the entire recording - I had only listened to a short excerpt before. You know... the more I spent time on /pol/ and research the unpopular and "thought crime" positions aswell, the more I realize we haven't been told the truth and often been blatantly lied to. I find it at least astonishing how the propaganda of your government made it possible to demonize Hitler as the devil incarnate and somehow managed to portray Stalin as a liberator of Europe and fighter for its freedom. In the least it doesn't exactly encourage trust in other things your government says and declares as evident, historical truths.
It might be controversial and I am not sure, if it held true, but I think even the Poles and the Russians would have been better off under the rule of the Reich than under Stalinism. Of course most will aggressively deny that.
>>72034830
I am not speculating. Watch the video. Its a Hitler recording from 1942 with English Subs. The conversation he was having was with Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim who was a Finnish military leader. He was trying to enlist the help of the Fins at this time to try to combat the Soviets.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plpd83wbzSA
>>72034854
thx friend, but it seems i cannot open this image.
It teels me that it blocked by kremlin.
>>72029887
>If Japan had done as Hitler wanted and started a simultaneous land invasion of Russia during Barbarossa
Japs got absolutely BTFO when they invaded Russia unofficially. Thing is hardly anyone knows this. The price we pay for a sensationalized media.
>>72035030
fuck i care, this guy lost.
he ruined germany beyond repair.
>>72025675
Apparently if the winter of 1941 was just 3 degrees warmer the fuel lines of the German vehicles wouldn't have frozen over, and they could have secured Muscovy by Christmas.
>>72030000
Not the kind of quads I'd want backing my argument desu lad
>>72034969
I agree wholeheartedly with your last statement. Marxism / Communism is a cancer that needed to be eliminated. Sadly even though economic Communism has been defeat....the new Marxism that plagues this world is now Cultural Marxism.
Cultural Marxism is perhaps a greater threat to Western civilization but alas I think we can still defeat it before it is too late.
>>72025675
>What would have happened if Hitler hadn't sperged out and invaded Russia while doing battle with Britain?
Hard to invade islands. He could won if he got airsuperiority.
>Could Hitler have won the war?
No, he was forced to do it because germany was bankrupt. Otherwise people would riot and kill him.
>Or would the outcome have been the same in the end?
If USA and britian didnt "help" whole eu would be communist. This is why USA needed that war, also economy. Some USA elites financed hitlers rise to power.
>>72035185
>he ruined germany beyond repair.
Well...that would have been International Jewry, communists, allied bombardments and other forces destroying Germany and killing Germans.
Even if a democracy would have stayed in rule instead of the Reich, the Anglos and Stalin would have forced a war on us. I am starting to doubt, the Anglos would have allied with a democratic (democracy is a meme anyway) Germany against a communist invasion. They woul've let Western Europe fall to Communism as long as they kept their Empire and were save beyond the Atlantic.
>>72031549
I know right. What kind of retard start arming once their neighboring country start arming at alarming rate.
>>72025675
Hitler was a boss but he was a shit tactician. If he had just let his Generals make the decision form the get go the Reich probably would have succedded in dominating all of Europe,Africa, and Asia
>>72035489
>allied bombardments
Poor germans.
Thats why you importing turkshits and brown filth?
Heh
>>72035206
Thats bullshit, stalin orderer to leave/evacuate moscow, but the regular people just stayed there and defended it(out of pride) lots of canibalism too.
Also stalingrad was a trap, he knew hitlers ego and lured him in the city which haz no significant value rather then propaganda.
All the productions wer behind ural already.
Bottomline, if germans are retarded to give the soldiers normal warm clothing that means they dont deserve victory.
>>72030252
>The Russian winter bogged down their armor and drained all momentum
German stupidity. Their quick win with France got to their head, as well as their retarded 'subhuman russians' ideology. How else do you explain not preparing for winter in Russia, after being their for 3 fucking winters, after having characters like napoleon do the same fucking thing a century ago.
They were so fucking naive to think marching in and conquering Russia would be the same as France, holy shit it blows my mind sometimes.
>>72035775
No, we imported Turkshits because the USA forced us to take in the guest workers as a diplomatic gift for the new NATO member Turkey. They were more than happy to send us their lowest of the low from East Anatolia and Germany was not in the position to decline, it was only officially justified with cheap labour and I think the USA would have demanded it regardless of economic benefits for Germany.
With the mass immigration crisis since 2015 I have my educated guess aswell, beyond "the USA bombed countries down there" that is.
>>72036041
It's actually explained by Hitler in the video the American posted here >>72033538
What Hitler should have done is to offer peace in autumn 1941 when Stalin was desperate. Could get a lot of best and strategically important lands and settle down. But greedy fuck decided russian army could be crushed by winter instead.
>>72026750
>middle east and have those sweet oil fields
The ME wasn't really producing that much oil back then. The Germans real objective was to rob us of the Suez Canal.
>>72036134
>No, we imported Turkshits because the USA forced us
You know usa guys keep ruskies out.
So... your muslim adoring thing is our fault?
oy vey
>>72026750
Pretty good strategy there, waffles.
Curbstomp North Africa, dig in at the Suez canal. Expel the British from Egypt and advance quickly through the Middle East. Fortify the canal and everything up to the caucasus mountains. Stockpile oil and fuel and then curbstomp USSR in a pre-emptive strike that takes Leningrad in early summer 1941. Communist government collapses after Leningrad, Stalingrad and Moscow fall.
Subjugate Turkey and enjoy free oil shipments across the Medditerranean.
>>72028444
Based belarus is based
>>72036366
>So... your muslim adoring thing is our fault?
No. I just explained to you why we were forced to take them in and who ordered it. That's all.
Forward to present I am actually very thankful for Russia to bomb the shit out of the Islamic State and Al-Nusra.
>>72025675
Stalin was building up for invading Europe, Hitler had to strike before the soviet monster got out of control.
>>72032376
> muh finland
More like if Mussolini fucking up in greece would have not delayed operation barbarosa for 3 months then they could have done it with their logistics. Finland was a speck of lint in the whole operation and did go further than it's original borders.
>>72028444
Based Belarus! Trips speaks the truth.
I tried showing the Commie Ruskie that video as well but he did not even bother to fucking listen.
>>72029649
>Stalin would absolutely rape Germany just a few weeks later
Impossiburu. Red army was in the middle of rearming, replacing outdated tanks with T-34 and ww1 biplanes with monoplanes. You don't start big wars at such moment. In 1942 or 43 maybe.
>>72025675
Better question. What would have happened if Hitler did nothing and waited for the Doctors Plot and then allied with the Soviets against the US and Britain.
>>72037180
Cor Blimey!
Shut this Aryan down!
>>72037139
You start wars exactly in that moment, when your enemy is exhausted and debt ridden, no matter how your equipment is.
>>72036041
>characters like napoleon do the same fucking thing a century ago.
Napoleon made it to Moscow in 3 months actually. Took it in september. Always amused me, people like to badmouth red army but they managed to stall mechanised nazis x2 better than imperia army stalling frogs on horses in 1812.
>>72037180
>allied with the Soviets against the US and Britain.
HAHAHAHA Why would the Soviets who were controlled by fucking kikes go ally themselves with Hitler who vehemently opposed International Jewry? Wishful thinking.
>>72032978
Hitler had an amazing airforce, but airforces were limited by range and distance. Hence the issue when pushing into Russia/
This thread is to thought provoke no? We're talking about decisions he could've made to win the war. Choosing one "honorary aryan" over another would be that decision.
Japan may have read that, but they were also bloodthirsty descendants of Pirates, who wished nothing more but to emulate the great imperial armies they witnessed in the west.
Japan lacked the population, moral driving factors, and information required to attack USSR, this was a fault by the Germans, but they also refused to take the USSR by their own volition.
Learn to history Belarus bro.
Fucking anglos. They ruin everything.
>>72037820
Stalin terminated a lot of jewish bolsheviks in 30s. You might actually say Great purges of 1937-38 were there to remove joos (old guard as they called them) from party and government positions. I deeply respect Stalin for doing that.
>>72037975
LMAO good point on Japan.
I always say that the ones who fucked up everything for Hitler were the Japs. The US population was always against war and had would never had thought of getting brought into the WWII mess. Fucking Japs also did not see the bigger picture when it came to communism and decided to attack the Chinese instead of the Soviets in a greater strength.
If Japs cooperated more with Hitler, perhaps events could have played differently.
>>72038205
hello kike faggot
>>72025675
Nazis win if
>Don't waste all fuel attacking UK
>Don't invade russia outright, take ukraine by deal/ use of force and then trade deal.
>Don't ally with Japan
>Support US against Japan, not with ground troops, though.
This was, Nazis could have ruled over Europe without opposition. If they wanted (and they probably would) they could now feel free to take the italian empire, which would allow them to rule the entire Mediterranean. This would allow for economic stability.
They could have pulled it off if they listened to the generals and not hitler.
>>72038246
Asian USSR was literally worhtless, cold territory with no resources, russian far east was developed only after the war. Add russian willingness to fight for it.
On the other hand asian euro colonies and China were a very good trophy, warm and developed.
>>72038598
Eventually they would have come head to head against the USSR and a UK/USA alliance. Either of those could have soloed them by the end of the 40's, as the German economy was bound to collapse by then
>>72038396
Stalin was planning another holocaust buddy
>>72038671
Right, but the heavy industry was moved East far before that and the shitty German supply lines would not have managed to allow a German offensive towards the Ural Mountains. It would have taken longer, but you would have BTFO of Germany in the end.
>>72038773
Just a little harmless deportation actually. A little holy land in siberia in -40C to let jews show how they can live independetly w/o leeching from other peoples.
Germany could've won the war if Hitler had given Donitz his requested allotment of U-Boats instead of building worthless pocket battleships. The German Navy could've had an additional 90 U-boats if they hadn't built the 3 pocket battleships. Donitz wanted 300 U-Boats which were much more effective and much cheaper than the ships.
Churchill said the only thing that ever made him nervous was what was going on with the U-boats and how effective they were early in the war at sinking supply from the US. There was a point at which the U-Boats where sinking far more ships than the US could replace, but Germany did not have enough replacement U-Boats to keep up with the advances in anti-submarine tech, which was actually very poor until late '42-early '43. Germany could have easily starved GB and without supply from the US and easy pickings for an invasion, maybe not the whole, but at least enough to take out the airfields in southern GB. WIthout these airfields, the USAAF would have not had bases, and USAAF strategic bombing of Germany industry was the single most key component in defeating Nazi Germany.
>>72027395
He was only unprepared for winter because he assumed he'd have Russia before then. But he stopped the invasion for a few months, which not only gave the Russians time to defend the cities, but it also caused the Germans to fight in Russian winter.
He should have just listened to his advisors and not paused the invasion.
>>72039088
It's a lot of "ifs" there. After sinking 2 or 3 grain transports for England I'm pretty sure USA would have intervened and Germany was not able to compete with America.
>>72034969
>It might be controversial and I am not sure, if it held true, but I think even the Poles and the Russians would have been better off under the rule of the Reich than under Stalinism. Of course most will aggressively deny that.
You're right. They wouldn't have to suffer communism, they would just all be dead while the best would be sent to the reich to breed. Their lands would be populated by ethnic Germans and their history and culture would cease to exist. You're very good at genocide I'll give you that. I especially like the idea of taking the youngest fine children and giving them to German parents, that way they will hold no past knowledge or grudges that their parents would teach them throughout childhood, creating a pure generation. Fucking perfection desu senpai.
>>72031786
"great propaganda victory"
Stalingrad, like Moscow, was an incredibly important city.
Not the city itself, but the location. It was on the Volga river that runs from the Caspian sea to the white sea. Taking that city would have crippled the Soviets logistically. Just like how taking Moscow, where every fucking railroad meets, was incredibly important.
Taking them was not for propaganda value, but for strategic purposes.
Also, Germany could've easily defeated the USSR, the problem was there were 3 fronts in the east, north, central, and south. There was a power struggle on which to focus on amongst German generals, it wasn't just Hitler sperging. If they had committed to a single front instead of making ground in one and shifting focus to another, then to another, then back to where they started, Germany would've easily defeated the soviet military. The most important front to have made a committed attack was center, if they had captured Moscow, everything would've fallen apart as typical with the soviets, all command and control was out of Moscow. They were close to it too.
Russia is kind of amazing in that it has survived many invasions not because of their military, but in spite of it because of weather and floundering from the invaders.
>>72025822
His problem was thinking he had to take Stalingrad
>>72025675
Operation Sealion would have taken years to even attempt, a lot of people were glad it was thrown out and they were moving along.
It's likely Germany could have made better gains by focusing less on encirclements and putting Ukraine on the backburner, thus giving more punching power to AGC.
>>72038205
>implying all the people executed or imprisoned were guilty of treason
>implying he wasn't just a paranoid tyrant who wanted absolute power
>>72039729
>if they had captured Moscow, everything would've fallen apart as typical with the soviets, all command and control was out of Moscow.
Napoleon is that you?
>>72039302
The Uboats sank over 1300 liberty ships in 1942 alone.
The point is that in the early portion of the war, GB was in a dire position, they were almost wholly dependent on materiel and supply from the US at the beginning.
The US was already involved at this point, the problem was that without the airbases in southern GB, the US would not have a stepping stone into Germany. They wouldn't have been able to bomb from a safe source.
>>72039729
Yes Russians aren't affected by winter, they get +5 defense bonus in frost.
The shit people here spew...Germans lost because Soviets fought better overall. The end.
If you really bothered to read about Eastern Front, you'd realize that Soviets had a huge handicap, and that was Stalin's purges.
Stalin removed most of Soviet officer corps.
Plus he tried to micro-manage the war effort early on, which finally ended after disaster in Third Battle of Kharkov.
German success in WW2 was in big part thanks to their officer corps.
Officers and NCO's are everything.
>>72030602
Look at the Red Orchestra.
If that is anything to go by then the Soviets had not cracked it but berkley was feeding vital info when they deemed to.
>>72029649
>The German military is most consistently overrated fighting force of World War II.
Riiiiight.
>>72040026
Most weren't guilty of anything.
He was just paranoid and removed potential competition.
>>72039195
They got delayed with the assault on Soviet Union taking Greece as the incompetent Italians kept fucking up
93 day resistance that delayed the fighting and my great grandparents were partisans in it.
>>72039556
This prospect has a flavour that feels oddly familiar. I think I read about an familiar ideology before.
He shouldn't even take France, Germans achieved so much because allied and soviet leaderships were extremely incompetent in early stages of the war.
>>72040424
The German military was by far the most proficient and professional army of WW2
>>72040136
This
It's a miracle the army survived with guys like Tukachevsky getting wiped out desu
Credit to Zhukov I guess
>>72039556
Too bad that's another reason why they lost.
They made it clear to population that only thing that awaited them was slavery or extermination.
When your choice is like that, even communists look awesome.
>>72026134
USSR was amassing troops on the border. Whether to invade Germany or defend is kinda irrelevant. They would have invaded eventually due to the internationalist nature of Bolshevik socialism/communism and the desire to unite Slavic peoples
>>72029649
Stomped Greece's shit.
The two front war fighting against the rest of the world might have had something to do with it.
Italians/Romanians/Bulgarians were garbage allies.
>>72040136
Montenegrin bro droping tons of knowledge here.
>>72040742
Vatutin, Rokossovsky, Vasilevsky were of same caliber.
>>72025675
-They had to invade due to the industrialisation of Russia on a war footing during the third five year plan.
-They intended to invade in may but couldn't due to flooding and being held up in Greece.
-They had intended to encircle Moscow which a minority of the German staff supported including Hitler (Wether this would have worked was debatable)
-The General staff instead chose a full attack on Moscow while Hitler was ill with dysentery and didn't reach Moscow in time which resulting in their equitment freezing.
>>72040615
I like to think of it as 'absoluteness' where looking at people from the human empathetic perspective is no longer possible. Instead you look at it as if you were looking at a set of cutlery. The broken and old goes in the trash or cannibalized to make new sets, while the best is rounded up and polished to perfection.
This is probably the only way to deal with these migrants now.
But hey, it only gets even more fun with applying eugenics to even the very best. I can't wait until that door will finally be opened.
>>72040742
Tukachevsky had crazy ideas like building 100k shittanks per year and zerg rushing everyone instead of making modern T-34 tier stuff.
The guy was bright but maybe we're better off without him.
>>72028362
>Russia and UK didn't get all their supplies from the US
>US didn't defeat the Jap Navy in 1942 and open up the pacific for operations
I know that the US operations in Europe are oversold and the UK operations in Asia are undersold but the US won the war senpai. Without Airborne in Belgium, Marines on the Islands, or the US Navy smashing Japs the UK would have sat on its Island, Russia would have been fought to a stalemate around Polish/German border, and UK Commonwealth troops would have surrendered like they did at Singapore, with their batteries facing the wrong way
>btw Frenchies lost the war. (hur-dur my impenetrable Maginot line)
>>72041086
Agreed, and still they manage to keep a semi stable chain of command long enough to push to Berlin
>>72040825
>the desire to unite Slavic peoples
This is what makes me laugh the most, and I noticed same in the writing of some American experts.
Communism, especially that in USSR, was not Slavic.
Slavic elements were either reflection or adopted for propaganda.
Stalin liked Russia and Russians, but he didn't have any pro-Slavic sentiments, he was a Georgian for fucks sake.
Russian nationalism was a big enemy in the mind of commies.
>internationalist nature
You said it yourself. Communism is internationalist. It has nothing to do with Slavs.
>>72026711
>We still are more left then right or center.
Maybe only you?
>>72030615
Hitler did not have as much oil as he needed to conquer all the land he wanted. This is why he diverted to the baltics, while having moscow in the palm of his hand pre winter. Probably one of the biggest mistakes in military history, but it gives insight on how important a fuel source was to him.
>>72041413
>Russia would have been fought to a stalemate around Polish/German border
What?
The only thing US intervention did was stoping SU from swalowwing the whole Europe, maybe Britain even.
Daily reminder that Hitler would have beat Russia's ass had Italy not screwed Germany over by attacking Greece. By having to attack Greece thanks to Italy's incompetence, Germany had to delay their invasion of Russia until much later than previously planned, leading to their blitzkrieg getting caught in the Russian mud during the fall, and getting caught in the Russian winter.
>>72041413
>I know that the US operations in Europe are oversold and the UK operations in Asia are undersold but the US won the war senpai
To be honest I think the war could have been won without the US albiet alot slower and a lot more costly (especially in Asia) and had we fallen in the 40's I think the conclusion would have been far worse.
>UK Commonwealth troops would have surrendered like they did at Singapore, with their batteries facing the wrong way
They surrendered at Singapore under orders because they eblieved they would be treated fairly as POW's (Which they weren't) ; it was under a direct order from the general staff rather than risking the massacre of British troops.
>>72041413
>Without Airborne in Belgium, Marines on the Islands, or the US Navy smashing Japs the UK would have sat on its Island, Russia would have been fought to a stalemate around Polish/German border,
Pretty sure we were rolling over germans since 1943, why would we stop on their border, magic? No defence line can stop modern artillery. USA actually started french campain becoming nervous that soviets will get all Yurop for themselves.
>>72037180
Doctors Plot faggot. Then against capitalist shekkel horders. See Yokey.
>>72041726
There was flooding across Eastern Europe in May until late June so he couldn't have attacked even if the fuck up with Greece hadn't happened.
>>72041637
Wrong. Reich got fuel not only from Germany itself. But the whole Europe, Norway and trade with USA (till 7 decembet 1941). So they got enough fuel for operation "Sea lion".
>>72041413
>Maginot
Ke, all the french generals have 80' years olds, obseded by the first world war
They are Fucking stupids faggot
>>72042095
Most important source was Romania.
>>72025675
He would have won if Churchill hadn't been a complete fucking traitor to his race. Should have just accepted Rudolf Hess's offer, then we would never have had to deal with the fucking Russians.
>>72041637
>This is why he diverted to the baltics
You meant caucasus?
>while having moscow in the palm of his hand pre winter.
So? Napoleon conquered Moscow.
>Probably one of the biggest mistakes in military history
Invasion was a military mistake. Had Hitler not be a mad man, he would have forget his Sudentland Claims, and forge a united front on
SU early on.
>>72041508
What do you think of the claim that SU won the war due to larger manpower reserves? After all, western Europe had more population then SU, and the most densily populated areas were taken from SU early on.
>>72031190
>ally with greece and they'll do it
>>72042143
Going to play the devils advocate and defend francois (god help me)
But it was actually the Ententes falt for not supporting French garrisons in the Rhineland, so the Maginot line stopped at the Low countries.
>>72042065
Will Hitler survive until the 50s?
Who is to say that there would not be a Doctors Plot: Nazi Edition.
>>72041508
Toast to the Russian People at a Reception in Honour of Red Army Commanders Given by the Soviet Government in the Kremlin on Thursday, May 24, 1945
COMRADES! Permit me to propose one more, last toast.
I should like to propose a toast to the health of our Soviet people, and in the first place, the Russian people. (Loud and prolonged applause and shouts of “Hurrah.”)
I drink in the first place to the health of the Russian people because it is the most outstanding nation of all the nations forming the Soviet Union.
I propose a toast to the health of the Russian people because it has won in this war universal recognition as the leading force of the Soviet Union among all the peoples of our country.
>>72041413
>>72042143
Maginot line was actually pretty good idea.
First, it made French border impenetrable without huge German loses, which offset the German manpower advantage.
Second, it shielded French mobilization.
Third, because of line, only way to invade France was via Belgium, and that meant Belgium was practically forced to join France, and in turn UK is forced to support France.
>>72041972
He is right, you now.
You only help to finish the job with Japan and assisted with Lend Lease. You was useless allies in Europe. Less use has brought only France.
>>72038396
Read faggot and stop watching hollywood. http://www.faem.com/yockey/yok52.htm
