Is a person born gay? If so is it because of genetics or developmental reasons? ((((Modern science)))) says it is not a choice to be gay. What evidence exists that homosexuality is a learned behavior? Is there evidence of ((((people)))) teaching children to be gay?
>>81486240
It's probably a combination of factors.
Toxoplasma Gondii turns them into walking disease vectors. They have no free will. Cats are an ancient Egyptian bio-weapon.
>Nobody teaches or encourages anyone to be gay, it's something that you're born with.
How would you refute this statement?
>>81486240
>>81486240
I am a zoosexual and I remember having these feelings since I hit puberty.
I imagine homosexuals and pedosexuals are no different.
>>81486602
Ridicule.
>It only teaches kids it is ok to be who they already are
Is it possible that something like this really doesn't encourage alternative sexual behavior?
Homos were born that way. And homophobes were born hating homos. No need for the government to get involved, making laws which oppose nature. And pedophiles were born that way. Who has the right to judge?
Xq28 gene
>>81487567
That's a good start, but I'm gonna need something else to back that up, something more evidence based, or at least anecdotal.
>>81486240
we're born gay >>81486359
>>81487661
>Comparing a non-consensual pedophilic relation to that of two adults of the same gender together
>b-buh it's the same thing somehow..!
why is this shitty false equivalency in every faggot thread
it's a hormone imbalance in the brain, so yes. gay men are psychologically and physically similar to straight women.
>>81488785
Claiming that sexual deviance is OK because you claimed they were born that way is a TRUE equivalence. "I was born that way" can be used as an excuse by EVERYONE. Claiming that deviancy is somehow OK because you "were born that way" does not mean the behavior is acceptable. Keep sucking the dick, faggot.
>>81487120
Dude... Wut?
I think some are born gay and some turn gay
>>81489217
Except your point still doesn't stand. There's a reason your kind is dying out in the western world, moralfags are the worst. No one cares what your definition of "muh degeneracy" is and gays aren't going to not be a thing all of the sudden. Learn to live with it or stay bitter at them from the closet I couldn't care less. Care to elaborate on why two men or two adult women shouldn't be able to date or how that's any of your business?
>>81486240
There is neither evidence that homosexuality is learned or genetic. Lack of evidence for one position is not support for the other. The simple answer is that we do not yet know.
>>81489583
This. There's a fine line between an active sexual curiosity and actual sexual attraction.
I've met tons of girls whom claimed to be lesbian but then go onto sleep with numerous guys. A close friend of mine though is truly gay and has had sex with a man before and did NOT like it and was totally unattracted to him. She's married to a woman now and is quite gay.
It's less with gay/bisexual men. I'm bisexual myself but I've never slept with a man before. I've made out with one but never had penetrative intercourse with one. (I don't plan to since I'm a Christian now). The attraction though is still there for me. It could be that I was born this way, or two different homosexual interactions I had when I was a kid with other boys might have caused me to become this way. I'll never know for sure but I am who I am.
There's always different variables for a person being whom they are, I wouldn't chalk anything dealing with sexuality up to one piece of thinking.
>>81489583
which one happend to you?
>>81489629
Care to elaborate on why we should go out of our way to accommodate or sanction them in any way?
>>81486240
there is no evidence that they are born that way no. In fact, i think the most recent studies suggest that it is most likely the cause of environmental factors
>>81486240
Everything is genetic.
Knowing which genes is not important, just act after the fact.
Want to remove all criminals ?
Execute or sterilise all criminals as they get caught.
Want to remove all fags ?
Sterilisation, death.
Want to remove all poststamp collectors ?
Sterilisation, death.
The only thing needed is a selective pressure, evolution takes cares of the rest. Of course you need to apply it for multiple generation, though even just one will alter the population noticeably, statistically. The first three are the most important, the next are more maintenance work really ( mutations make sure the behaviour pop up again and again, the work would never be done ).
>>81490379
There's homosexual animal pairings observed in nature.
Examples: albatross, dolphin, swans, bonobo, killer whales, giraffes and penguins. Are you saying those animals chose to be gay or some environmental factor "turned" them gay?
>>81486240
I don't know what the fuck happened to me.
In my tweens and early teens, I was attracted to and fantasized about females.
At age 15 my sexual orientation suddenly switched. It was fucking weird, like something was instantaneously triggered.
I am sure that this is not a normal case history for gay people.
This caused me considerable consternation for many years.
I am abstinent and have never chosen to act on my orientation, but this was a bitter pill to swallow.
>>81486240
ITs not genetic that is for certain.
Someone literally just took the idea of chakras and repainted it with feminist drivel. Hilarious.
>>81489583
This. The obvious flamers are born that way. The weirdos on 4chan are just shut in and want to fuck so they start looking at twinks and traps.
It's a mix of both and depends on the person.
>>81491116
in reply to that >>81487594
>>81490324
Turned kinda gay.
Only had a tiny (very tiny) attraction to 1 or 2 guys growing up.
I have had no meaningful relationship with girls and on a mental level can't relate to them.
Also cock is just great.
It's not directly heritable, which of course leaves the door open for justifying conservative social engineering.
>>81491289
>>81491289
dude no one can relate to girls on a mental level. They are for fucking, cleaning, and raising children.
Getting along mentally is what you do with your bros.
It is a lie that your wife needs to be your intellectual equal. As long as she makes you happy that's all that matters. In the past, men never even talked politics or social issues with their wives, they just listened and obeyed cause they expected their husbands to be right.
>>81486240
I don't really think it matters, sex between consenting adults should be allowed. But I would guess it's something like these:
>>81486359
>>81489583
More research needed.
>>81490455
Except there's no gay or criminal gene so your idea is retarded. Evolution will not breed them out and no one is gonna genocide gays in the western world anyway, approval rating is above 60% in most countries beside the odd one like Russia.
>>81491674
>there's no gay or criminal gene
Right, behaviour arise from the holy spirit, i forgot.
Maybe God really hate niggers and make them be niggers through the holy spirit, MAOA obviously have no influence on their behaviour.
>>81486240
I remember watching a video of some guy interviewing drunk men at a gay bar. They openly admitted they were mostly sexually abused from a young age. Some even remember such events from when they were 3 years old.
My personal anecdote: I actually used to believe I was just born this way. But then I had some repressed memories that I took for granted. Sometimes my dad would grab me and my brother and just openly jiggle my penis. I am not sure to this day whether he did it in an endearing way or what. But he would do it until we got an erection, then we would freak out , which is the response he wanted? This happened from when we were around 3 years old. My mom would watch and just laugh. As innocent as they both thought this act was, I'm pretty sure it scarred me sexually for life. Another event: My cousin who was a year older than I (I was 3 again) forced us to do a naked photo shoot. I guess she watched porn from a young age, I honestly didn't know what we were doing. But she forced me and my younger siblings to do it. Something in the back of my head was telling me this was naughty, but I went through with it. It was pretend. How could it hurt me?
I honestly don't remember if my sexuality was mature at the time. I didn't know what I liked at the time. But one thing is for sure, after these events, my sexuality started to develop by age 7.
Sexuality is something very tricky, and I am actually hurt when people say it is mostly a choice. I do not live a degenerate lifestyle. I only want a boyfriend in a monogamous relationship where we can respect each other and tear down the current gay culture. That would be the dream...
>>81487911
Easy to refute.
Watch and learn.
Everybody teaches and encourages everyone to be gay, it is something that we are not born with.
As you didn't provide any evidence, all I need to do is claim the opposite of what you claimed.
Ugh ignorant much? Haven't you listened to born this way it's 2011
>>81492640
>>81490455
I don't want to bust your bubble but that's not how genes work.
Genes by themselves can't do shit, the environment shapes them up (see OP picture), especially when you are still a kid.
You people keep talking about how black genes are inferior but get a black baby and give them to a white couple, watch the kid grow up with white culture. Now get a white baby and give them to a black couple in the hood, watch the white kid grow up with the black culture ingrained in them.
It is all about environment
>>81492640
Blacks and niggers aren't the same thing, just like gays and faggots aren't. You're clearly the one who doesn't know this. And no, there is no gay gene. Pretty sure scientists would know as you'd only have to look for a difference among straights/gays.
>>81492990
>>81493796
>>81493794
>>81493424
>>81493394
why are people so afraid to reply to me??
>>81493850
>make an absolute claim
>provide no evidence whatsoever
>"prove me wrong with evidence now"
You don't know how burden of proof works.
I can easily say "There is a teapot floating near Jupiter right now" and ask you to prove me wrong with evidence. You can't do that, can you?
>>81492990
Anecdotal and circumstantial evidence. Are you claiming the homo animals are only homo because they were molested? They don't even have a concept of that.
http://www.yalescientific.org/2012/03/do-animals-exhibit-homosexuality/
"Somehow human sexuality is different from animals despite us being animals" what a claim
>>81486240
No one is born gay or straight. Sexual attraction doesn't even happen until puberty. When I was a kid, I wanted to marry my dad. Nothing sexual about it, and I didn't turn out gay.
Being gay IS a choice, in the sense that liking the taste of broccoli is a choice. It's all about exposure.
>>81494080
its not a claim, its an anecdote. i already acknowledged that. all im saying is, not even im sure what causes gayness. the only answer seems to be is a variety of factors. factors mostly outside of the individual's control. im really good at analyzing situations and this is what i found.^ also i just thought my anecdote was a little to risque' and weird for straight people to discuss.
>>81494234
so then what causes a lion to be gay?
>>81494425
Sure, let's work this out
Do you agree with me that the natural/ideal state is to be heterosexual?
>>81486240
Human sexuality is widely misunderstood
The truth is that sexuality is incredibly fluid.
On old galley ships, hundreds of men were out at sea for months at a time with no women. The result was widespread homosexuality. These were men with wives and families at port, and yet when women were not available they went with the next best thing. We see the same phenomenon in modern prisons.
Before modern civilization, all across the world sex with animals was common practice. It still is in parts of Africa and the Middle East, stick around 4chan long enough and you'll see the videos for yourself.
Men will have sex with literally anything. Women, other men, children, animals, the aboriginals would cut a hole in your flesh and have sex with it, pic related.
This is why it's so important to mandate heterosexual relationships which are healthy, productive, and contribute to a positive social order. Rather than embracing degenerate sexual acts which breed mental sickness and social dysfunction.
>>81494711
Depends, animals like albatross have a beneficial boost to their survival if they are lesbian. Gays make more than straights on average and can adopt kids that would otherwise not have homes (regardless of what your personal belief is this is good from a populations standpoint)
Is it beneficial to humans to have gays? I would argue yes some, they're only a minor fraction of the population anyhow and overpopulation is an issue in some places.
>>81486240
If being gay is strictly a learned behavior what caused the first animal (non human animals have also been observed to be gay) to be gay (remember, there were no gays before it)?
>>81495056
I am talking about a biological point of view. Biologically speaking, nature aims for 100% heterosexual, right?
>>81486359
>It's probably a combination of factors.
This.
Genetics. Choice. Sure, environment too.
Yet people do have a genetic disposition toward a sexuality.
And we really shouldn't give two shits if someone is homosexual, choice or not.
They are protected by the US Constitution like everyone else.
>>81495072
>>81486240
>>81495311
Uh what do you mean by that? There's homos in nature so not sure what you mean by nature "aims"?
>>81495352
GTFO you libertarian shit
>>81486240
>free will
>real
>>81495574
You know exactly what he means you fucking imbecile
A homosexual is a genetic dead end. A waste of genetic material. The parents of a fag spent 20 years raising and nurturing a failure who will never pass on their genes to the next generation
Natural selection tries as hard as it can to breed fags out of the population.
What you are doing right here is called "playing dumb". In the face of a superior argument you simply pretend stupidity such that you have no comprehension of logic. "Nyah nyah nyah I can't heaaar you"
>>81495574
Fact 1: Nature aims for survival of the species
Fact 2: Reproduction is required for survival
Fact 3: Reproduction can only happen between heterosexual groups (if we are talking about humans at least)
Conclusion: Homosexuality harms the chance of survival of species like humans or just any mammals.
Fact 1: If homosexuality is not a choice, it is determined either by genes (before the person is born) or by the environment.
Fact 2: Genes are transferred during reproduction.
Fact 3: Homosexuals can't practice reproduction.
Conclusion: Homosexuals can't transfer their genes to the next generation.
How can it be genetic if we, in theory, all have 100% heterosexual genes? Any homosexual that appears will die without pushing their genes forward.
Then it is the environment. But is that really "not a choice"? It can, at the very least, be remedied.
>>81487594
what is this, brosience? am I on /fit/?
>>81495991
>Implying homosexuals cannot have children
Ah I forgot about that part they literally can't you're right.
>>81496024
Like I already told you, homosexuals are a minor fraction of the population and have been around since Ancient Rome/Greece in humans, possibly before. In certain species it helps by having that minor fraction. Google it yourself.
>>81486240
Gays were molested at a young ages, they felt guilty and felt their masculinity was taken from them so they turn feminine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGlawiibK8
>>81496282
Yes, mental illness, child rape, bestiality, necrophilia has been with us since the beginning of time
We're all aware of this
But embracing these things is cultural suicide
>>81495072
What caused a dog to fuck my leg if it was not born to fuck legs?
What caused a monkey in the zoo to wank all day long? did somebody train it to do that?
I've seen a video of a dog fuck a cat, a giraffe give head to a metal pole and many more, why did they do it?
Make a thread on /b/ called what have you put your penis into and see what comes up.
How many people who are in prison do you think were born gay?
>>81496282
Yes, homosexuals are a minor fraction in many species, just like many other aberrations. And no, I am not insulting them by using the term "aberrations", it is a scientific term for abnormalities.
You have insane people too. They are a minor fraction. Does that mean it is normal or natural?
The fact homosexuals end up being productive members of society means literally nothing to the conclusion that it is not a choice. It just means that your sexuality doesn't mean shit.
>>81496367
yea this is the video i was talking about
>>81492990
No scientifically sound study has definitively linked sexual orientation or identity with parental role-modeling or childhood sexual abuse.
The American Psychiatric Association noted in a 2000 fact sheet available on the Association of Gay and Lesbian Psychiatrists, that dealing with gay, lesbian and bisexual issues, that sexual abuse does not appear to be any more prevalent among children who grow up and identify as gay, lesbian or bisexual than in children who grow up and identify as heterosexual.
Similarly, the National Organization on Male Sexual Victimization notes on its website that "experts in the human sexuality field do not believe that premature sexual experiences play a significant role in late adolescent or adult sexual orientation" and added that it's unlikely that anyone can make another person gay or heterosexual.
>>81494234
Animals fuck when they're horny, it isn't that they have a sexual preference. Human homosexuals on the other hand show they they've been molested at an early age, by other homosexuals that probably experienced the same thing.
>>81496775
Anecdotal evidence. See:
>>81497620
>>81497686
nice try
>>81497620
>>81496553
I hate to be pedantic here, but the reason that homosexuality exists in other species is because of a lack of females. This is a favored argument of shirt-lifters, but all it comes down to, really, is if you have to bust a nut, you have to bust a nut.
>>81486240
>etic if we, in theory, all have 100% heterosexual genes? Any homosexual that appears will die without pushing their genes forward.
>Then it is the environment. But is that really "not a choice"? It can, at the very least, be remedied.
It is genetic obviously.
Somes studys claim that there is more chance to be homosexual if you have a lot of brother and sister.
>>81498041
That still means it is not normal or natural since it only happens when there is something wrong. It also supports the explanation that sexuality is influenced by the environment and therefore can be "treated" (such as by adding females to the environment)
>>81498041
Albatross and bonobo have significantly more lesbians. The female albatross run faster so f/f couples with children live longer. That's not true at all.
>>81498214
Read >>81496024
It can't be genetic if it is literally impossible for anyone to have homosexual genes since homosexuals can't push their genes forward since no reproduction
>>81491013
So you're not at all attracted to females and wanna fuck em? Or now you're just also attracted to dicks?
>>81486240
There are physiological differences in gay people that indicate that developmental factors r the big deal.
So there ya go.
>>81498439
>e to have homosexual genes since homosexuals can't push their genes forward since no reproduction
Stupid dumbo, heterosexual can have homosexual recessive gene.
>>81498297
Of course it's not normal or natural, to suggest otherwise would go against the very idea of evolution.
>therefore can be "treated" (such as by adding females to the environment)
Exactly.
>>81491674
>no criminal gene
wtf do you call niggers then?
>>81498838
The gay gene theory is highly discredited. The best model used just five of the methylation marks, and correctly classified the twins 67 percent of the time. “To our knowledge, this is the first example of a biomarker-based predictive model for sexual orientation,” Ngun wrote in his abstract.
The problems begin with the size of the study, which is tiny. So not only was it a small study, but it only worked correctly 67% of the time. That could be guess work at worst.
>>81498439
you have no idea how genetics works.
Here's a pure thought experiment example of a evolutionarily stable way for a gay gene to rise in the population: The mother births x% of gay children that assist in the rearing of her other children but do not become wasted resources for assistance when they ultimately leave the family to mate.
Not saying it's true, but there is certainly a way for this to be favorable in some environment.
>>81486240
It's a reaction to trauma spread by adults to children, to other children. They create a life style out of subconsciously reliving their abuse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGlawiibK8
That and Cochran's Germ Theory. I don't think it's a pathogen necessarily but he debunks the genetic idea quite convincingly.
https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/greg-cochrans-gay-germ-hypothesis-an-exercise-in-the-power-of-germs/
>>81486489
it's proposed as a different pathogen, the cat ones only affect rats.
>>81486602
the increase in homosexuality and all the propaganda and gay prides and other dumb shit
>>81486240
The real, deep down, the real question is:
Does it matter?
Why, does it bother you, or anyone else, if a man decide to have sex with another man?
Does he have sex in your bed? on top of you? if not, let it be, live and let live, the more gays the more women available for straight men.
They don't compete with you for any resource that straights don't already, they are not a threat, they are not an issue.
As overpopulation increases, the amount of homosexuals increases from epigenetic triggers during gestation, this is also why the more children someone has, the higher the chances their younger children are homosexual, the body knows, nature has failsafes.
Are you seriously going to be mad at a failsafe against overpopulation?
If anything be mad at cultures that heavily suppress it, that force men and women into hiding and pretending their entire lives to be something they are not, with families because thats what society expects them to.
We are humans, the pinnacle of evolution so far, yet some people are brain dead enough to hate something merely because it does not share the same behavior as them, or because some shitty polytheistic religion turned monotheistic in the desert told them so? Fuck that shit.
I see far more important things to deal with, such as primitive cultures invading our lands and week after week see them butcher our people in a way it has become normality, that is no longer shocking or unexpected.
That, is a far bigger issue that what 1-5% of men and women do in their bedrooms.
>>81493794
nope
white person here grew up around a bunch of niggers
nigs still nig while I have no crime record and a decent job
yes you might say I'm an exception but when I was in school almost no blacks were in my advanced classes even though I lived in a majorly black area. I was with the very few white and hispanic people and literally no blacks in my classes growing up.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/10/27/study-finds-race-growing-explanatory-factor-sat-scores-california
I used to think that poverty was the reason, but I grew up just as poor if not poorer than all the niggers around me. There's a reason I'm racist today, it's because there's actual reason to be.
>>81499715
There is no increase in homosexuality, the difference is that society is coming to accept it instead of lynching/jailing them, so people who are homosexual no longer need to hide in fear for their lives.
Don't be stupid.
A society's sole purpose for existing is to assure mutual protection of all its members, as long the individual(s) are not threating the lives of others, they have right to that protection, unless you think shitty african/middle eatern societies are an example to follow instead.
>>81499317
I never read that gene theory is "higlhy discredited">> source?
>>81499817
Yeeeee. I don't give a fuck if someone is gay. I just don't care
I'm really not sure about it all, OP. I am gay, but I never really questioned or even thought about it properly until my early twenties, when I realised I have absolutely no attraction to women and I found men to be better to get along with in a romantic way.
I honestly can't say if it is genetics, environment or choice. Opinions?
>>81498838
How can you have homosexual recessive genes if, at the very single MOMENT a mutation happens and a homosexual gene appears, it immediately stops being pushed forward??
Watch this (turn subtitles on) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=150QBUAisoo and find some of the answers.
>>81491674
There is actually evidence to suggest that homosexuality correlates positively between identical twins, so genetics clearly has some role, it just hasn't been explored in depth due to ethical concerns.
I'm gay. I've read a lot of stuff about this topic and nobody seems to know for certain. I believe there must be some form of genetics involved somewhere as if it is learned behaviour I don't know where it is learned from. I was gay before I even knew I was gay. I remember getting erections in the swimming pool changing rooms but didn't even realise why until a few years later. I just pushed it to the back of my mind. I was the first and only gay person I knew. I was vaguely aware of the concept as it was a common schoolyard insult, but didn't know anything beyond that. I assumed I was straight.
>>81501221
>i have to leave to fuck my GF
>no time to explain
>go google scholar
>search homosexuality
>read studies
>go back to 4chan tomorrow and open a new topic
>>81498466
Just attracted to males. Like I said, weird.
>>81491013
How old are you now?
While it's possible for a tiny number of homosexuals to be the result of genetic mutations - we're talking 1 in tens of thousands - it cannot possibly be the case that a trait with 100% fertility reduction is selected for and exists at the rate it does in modern society. Hamilton's rule flat out disqualifies obligate homosexuality occurring at the 2-4% rate it shows up as.
>>81490455
Are you retarded? Criminals are a social thing you retard. There's no such thing as a "criminal" in nature, it's purely a human concept that only exists in civilization.
The things people do that make them "criminals" are all instincts everyone has, we just suppress them with our morals.
>>81486240
>Individual Choices
>>81486240
>Individual choices
No such thing.
>>81494234
>>81494530
Animals do not have concepts of sexuality.
When an animal fucks a male one, it's just trying to get off.
A hole is a hole, they don't give a damn. That's why you'll see monkeys using frogs to jerk off. And animals sticking their dicks in random holes sometimes.
There's no such thing as gay or straight to an animal, there is only "put penis in something to feel good".
>>81504213
Except you're ignoring the fact that's there same sex life pairings in animals. As in they chose a same sex mate.
>>81504213
Thats some nice bro science right there.
>>81486240
I wasn't born a foot fetishist, but I kind of got into it some ten years after starting to be sexually active and some 16 years after starting to masturbate. I don't think you're born that way and I do think you can be conditioned to be something. I don't think there's a going back, though.
>inb4 feet are degeneracy
Yea, maybe.
>>81486240
As to not be a pest:
Born gay; no. Made in a subconscious way in a very early age, yes. A small child does not decide to impose upon himself the circumstances to turn himself gay, which may or may not work constructively with genetic predispositions in social development. It is a delicate matter. You can absolutely teach them to be gay as you can instill many other fetishes carefully.
Now for my own question: Why do you think that many great men were bi/gay?
>>81504857
No, they don't. But even if they did, that could just be a de novo mutation; there's tons of things that can pop up in your genes that end your reproductive fitness.
The thing is, they don't get passed on, so the numbers of examples remain low. In order to get the numbers we see in humans, it'd have to be selected for, which is by definition impossible; nothing that completely shuts off your reproductive capabilities can be selected for.
>>81505413
>Why do you think that many great men were bi/gay?
Because no women messed around with their life. On a serious not, though, that's kind of an interesting question. We know for a fact that gays score better on IQ tests. We also know that poor people tend to score below average on IQ tests. Third thing we know is that poor people tend to be more pronounced against being gay. It's another piece of evidence that being gay is at least partly conditioning and it indicates a reversed cause and effect: Gays are not more likely to be succesful, but succesful people are more likely to be gay. In my mind that's at least part of the reason
>>81486240
No- they were anally perverted by an older man at a certain age and became demon-possessed.
>>81505592
Yes, they do. Read the Yalescientific article, female albatross same sex life partners. His theory doesn't even apply to lesbians which are homosexual just in the same
>>81505005
We have documented evidence of his claims; for fuck's sake, I've seen a beetle try to mate with a beer bottle. Male bedbugs have to release a pheromone that signals to other males they aren't female bed bugs, or else other males would try to mate with them - which would be fatal to the recipient.
>>81495352
Rand NO
>>81505973
But why is the question? Do you think being gay means some sort of social incapability to relate with girls mentally therefore needing an emotional relationship with a man that turns sexual,
or
being a sort of aspie that's disgusted by women by virtue of unfamiliarity and incapability to relate with them on any level, thus having a lack of attraction as well? We know aspies are pretty smart (at least at a greater rate, and those capable of socializing especially)
I got this into my mind after reading about your own man, Der Alte Fritz
>>81506438
You should have read the article yourself, before insisting that someone else does.
These "lesbian" albatrosses are nothing of the sort - they mate with male albatrosses to have chicks, and pair up because there aren't enough males to go around, and an albatross mother can't go it alone.
That is nothing like what we're talking about, which is obligate homosexuality, do you understand this? We're talking about people who will not mate with the opposite sex, at all. Even a preference for same-sex pairings isn't interesting, biologically speaking, so long as you still mate with an opposite-sex member and pass on your genes. It's obligate homosexuality that can't be possible.
>>81499715
Except I don't think there is any proof of an increase, just that they aren't hiding as much. The % of humans born homosexual could be the same for the past 10,000 years as far as we know. As we certainly know there has been man on man action for at least 5000 years.
>>81506533
Ok great. But that's insects. Do you honestly believe animals like Dogs, Cats, Elephants, Monkeys, Pigs or Deer haven't got any concept of sexuality?
If homosexuality is genetic, in cases of identic twins, monocigotic ones, that are genetically identic,if one is gay, the other should be. As we can found pairs in what this rule dont apply, homosexuality isnt genetic, you dont born to sodomy, surprise.
It's no longer politically correct to claim something is wrong, especially concerning sexuality. That's why there's a rise of gay. It has nothing to do with genes - just the environment factors someone grows up in, and personal experiences, leading to them making an individual choice down the line, for a miriad of reasons. The mind is too complicated to fully know, even "normal" people have difficulty explaining why they are who they are, no idea where and how you formed along the line, so people just blame it on genes and call it a day I guess.
If it was suddenly "bad" to not teach kids that stealing, murder, generally comitting crimes is wrong, the next generation would have a lot more criminals in it. It's basically like that. The world shifted its standards. Theoretically, it could shift them back and you'd see a reduction, but that won't happen. Muh progression, and such.
I generally don't have a problem with it (and anything) unless it becomes blatent attention seekery faggotry like rainbows, camp voices, girly fem attitudes, "limp wristed" type shit. Like how I don't care about vegans until they try to force their lifestyle choice on me. Just fucking get on with it. You're not a special snowflake, everyone is "unique" and I don't get why it's considered bad to be proud of being straight, or eating meat or what. World went crazy a long time ago. Stop having fucking parades, baiting the people you know aren't happy with it, just blend in, merge along. When you stand out you just become a target. Then you bitch about it.
>>81507248
You're the one inferring that homosexuals can't have children and pass on their genes. That's a beyond stupid claim. Not mating with the opposite sex isn't a prerequisite to have children for humans.
>>81507573
>Not mating with the opposite sex isn't a prerequisite to have children for humans.
Humans evolved over hundreds of thousands of years without IVF, bro.
>You're the one inferring that homosexuals can't have children and pass on their genes.
There's nothing to "infer"; the claim is that obligate homosexuals are "born that way," that there is a gene that makes someone refuse to have opposite-sex relations.
This is what is claimed by LGBT groups. We aren't talking about facultative homosexuality, or bisexuality, we are addressing the specific claims of homosexuality. If you do not understand this, then shut the fuck up.
>>81507573
>Not mating with the opposite sex isn't a prerequisite to have children for humans.
Fucking wat?
>>81486240
I sort of feel as though I've become more bisexual because of the internet.
But I do remember I few times I was younger I got turned on looking at boys. I remember one time at school during P.E this kid just came out of the shower with his cock on full display and it still gets me hard so it must be out of my control to some degree.
It's a shame most guys are just disgusting.
>>81507281
You ever been around a dog that's been in the vicinity of a bitch in heat? They'll try and hump whatever's closest, including you. I guess by your logic you believe they've evolved an attraction to humans?
>>81506906
>We know aspies are pretty smart (at least at a greater rate, and those capable of socializing especially)
Common misconception. Aspies score horrible on IQ tests, because they can't really take them. Fact is, we don't really know how intelligent they are, but we know that most of their "talent" is a result of obsessive behavior with repitition. They're usually just studying really, really hard in a specific topic (that can be anything, literally, from mathematics to memorizinh license plates).
But back to the topic: I do think that this is the reason some men are homosexual. Women are annoying to deal with, especially when you fear rejection and women are inherently different, thus "scary". I wouldn't bee too surprised if some men just said fuck it and fucked men.
>>81489583
I would say this. I would also say this is true for many trannies.
It's no coincidence a lot of weebs and nerds end up as trannies, they've convinced themselves that being a qt girl would be a better life.
>>81507421
That doesn't prove it's not genetic, it's only evidence that it's not entirely genetic.
>>81486240
that venn diagram should only be two circles. individual choices are a result of genes and environment
>>81489629
>Dying out
>homo sex
>minority
allllright. This doesn't sound like heterophobia.
>>81508369
So that's a yes then? You think dogs are so stupid that they cant tell the difference between a bitch and my leg? And that humans are the only species that can recognise a female? Do you have a source for this?
i honestly don't get why people hate gay men. lesbians, trans people, i can understand. but as long as gays aren't passing on their genes, not marrying, not adopting, and not being degenerates, what's the problem?
>>81508002
Except scientists still don't know, and the gene isn't the only theory for "born this way". Prenatal hormones, brain structure etc. You're clearly the misinformed one
faggots are gay
>>81508916
>Heterophobia
This isnt tumblr. My claim was that his ideology is on the decline in the western world (which it is)
>>81509022
>what's the problem?
Straight people who've never met a gay person before assume we're going to try and rape them the first chance we get or something.
>>81508002
It gets even more confusing than that. Some scientists suggest that the reason for homosexuality in humans is to have some kind of "slave males" that take care of the children.
It is thought of possible that it's actually WOMEN carrying the genes (partly) responsible for male homosexuality.
That means as long as a woman with that gene has daughters, that gene passes on, which is the reason that male homosexuals not reproducing isn't bred out of the gene pool.
Quite an interesting topic, because so few is really known and so much is counter-intuitive about it.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/gay-gene-survived-evolution-it-carried-mothers-who-have-more-children-study-240813
http://phys.org/news/2010-02-reveals-potential-evolutionary-role-same-sex.html
>>81489629
>stay bitter at them from the closet
implying everyone on earth is a closet gay
typical fag logic
>>81509507
Well tbf you might
>>81486240
The idea that you can choose to be gay comes from retarded Americlaps misunderstanding the Christian argument that separates innate orientation and the individual choosing to have gay sex so they can still get away with blaming them for how they exercise their free will without blaming God for making them that way. That's what they mean by "you choose to be gay" that you choose to have gay sex, which is true if you're not getting raped or something.
Most modern research points towards it being epigenetic and influenced by your mother's hormone levels in the womb when you were being formed. This is why a man is more likely to be gay the more older brothers he has, his mother's body got less and less capable of producing the right hormone balance for males.
However this means that being gay is LITERALLY a birth defect so it still triggers liberals as in theory you could stop a baby from being gay (or trans) if you could keep the hormone levels healthy and literally cure all types of faggotry.
>>81509585
I forgot to add one important thing:
While there is homosexuality among men, there is almost no homosexuality among women. Most "lesbian" women have had a male partner at some point and most "lesbian" woman (in fact a big chunk of women overall) actually identify as bisexual.
>>81508524
Well, it's a start. There is a study and only 30% were both faggots. So the other 70% were homosexuals by choice, or environment or whatever your choice is.
>>81509326
Kill yourself faggot
Nature is chaos. It doesn't give a shit about survival of any species. You don't get evolution. Get over it.
>>81486240
>le ebic (()) meme
fuck off stormweenie.
Yes, being gay is NOT a choice. I can't just tell my self to fuck a guy, I feel a natural aversion everytime I get a thought even close to that. I don't have a choice in the matter.
>>81509835
Honestly I think many "gay men" are actually bisexual to an extent. Most gay people I know have had some sexual experiences with girls.
homosexuals are people indulging in paraphilia
>non-pejorative designation
>for unusual sexual interests
>wikipedia
UNUSUAL = not the norm, not normal
Homosexuality like every 'non reproduction oriented' = paraphilia = sexual behavior is a social construct and have to do with nevrosis
1 person = 1 socialy constructed sexuality made of a patchwork of diferents paraphilias
>>81503602
>There's no such thing as a "criminal" in nature
Some people are more prone to crime though.
Most serial killers for example have severe mental issues. You are born with these issues, you don't get schizophrenia in your teens or something.
>>81509022
>trans "people"
>born a man
>insists you call him a woman and treat him as such
Yea nah that's the problem, if you wanna pretend you're a woman I guess that's fine (not really) but don't insist I pretend you're a woman too
>>81491013
Pretty much me straight up until I was about 13 then I started noticing guys more, I’m not going to abstain though
>>81510339
Are you a jew bull dyke? why the fuck are you so angry about an politely put interesting topic?
>>81510059
>environment
This doesn't only mean influence á la monkey see monkey do, it also includes epigenetic activators.
For all we know homosexuality could be a "program" "saved" in the genetic code that is never run until a "lever" is switched on by outside influences (that could be anything from extensive heat exposure, a flu, a broken leg, etc.). Epigenetics is fascinating and little is really known.
>>81486240
Simple homo(preferring sucking dick and getting it from behind) is a choice.
Trannies and others(those who believe they are born with the wrong gender) are born this way and they are mentally ill.
homosexuality is a lifestyle you can buy to make your abusive mother mad at you
it's like a hobby
>>81510531
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/06/030613075252.htm
If it's all genetic predisposition, how can they explain the rise in this behavior in recent years?http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11807740/half-young-people-heterosexual-lgbt-homosexual-yougov.html
>>81495352
Show me a society that has no moral backbone and I will show you a society that has collapsed. That's what happened to Greece when it was conquered by the Romans.
The problem is that sexual degeneracy causes moral decay and is a public health risk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQ6bH_qoM4Y
>>81511172
this
>>81511151
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11807740/half-young-people-heterosexual-lgbt-homosexual-yougov.htmλ
Kinsey scale is unscientific garbage. Just because you aren't a "1" in the scale doesn't mean that you are not entirely heterosexual. True homosexual numbers range from 1-4%.
>>81511172
>That's what happened to Greece when it was conquered by the Romans.
What ? Greeks were fucking boys long before the Romans came. Greece went into a decline after Alexander and the decline of the power of city-states. Homosexuality and muh degeneracy have nothing to do with it.
>>81509326
I'll tell you the same thing I told the other anon:
Show me society that allows for sexual and moral degeneracy, and I will show you a failed society. Promiscuity is a hallmark of a civilization in it's death throws. Enjoy it while you're alive because future generations will not tolerate it. See Russia
>>81499817
>Does it matter?
Depends. If the causes are discovered and it is discovered that it is mainly due to the environment. What do you think would happen?
Will the health insurance cover the environmental adaptation to avoid gayness? Would parents have the right to avoid homosexuality?
Do you think the gay community will watch still, why their supply of boipucci runs dry?
>>81511151
I'm not saying it's the case, but there could be a lot of reasons.
Less stigma attached.
Higher position on the oppression scale.
Less women available due to female empowering.
Decline of religiosity.
Homosexuality isn't black and white. If you're, say, 60% straight and find a male androgynous soulmate the step into the gays might be easier and more closely relate to a choice due to almost bisexuality.
Also sexuality isn't black and white and sexual attraction is not completely limited to body features. There are women that are objectively good looking, but due to their character I would never find them sexually attractive. I am sure, for some, this can go in the other direction as well.
I think even the word homosexual is stupid
we shouldn't refer to a person or a group of person using their sexual preferences
seem moraly wrong
we should just be citizen under our nation flag and nothing else
>>81486240
If "individual choices" are caused neither by genes, nor by environment, what's their cause?
>>81495002
/thread. Cocks aren't picky, this isn't rocket science.
>>81511708
http://www.handsofhur.org/media/print/earth/Lifecycle_Of_Empires.pdf
>>81512217
>If you're, say, 60% straight
gender brainwash victim
>>81486240
>Is a person born gay?
50% of gays ARE born that way. The other half is just sorta sucked in to it.
>>81512380
relativist troll argument
>>81495056
>Gays make more than straights on average and can adopt kids that would otherwise not have homes
>good from a populations standpoint
nice try fag
>>81511151
I might add as an example the issue with hormone supplements.
You would be, objectively, straight if you fucked buck angel and you would be, objectively, gay if you fucked the left one.
Now the question is: What makes you more of a faggot in your mind?
Sure, you and me wouldn't fuck any of those, but let's say what's more attractive.
>>81512705
>no coherent answer
>>81512564
>http://www.handsofhur.org/media/print/earth/Lifecycle_Of_Empires.pdf
This doesn't look very scientific.
>>81512637
There are only two genders, I'm not an idiot. But sexuality is obviously a spectrum. Some people are into feet, some aren't. Some are into anal, some aren't. Some are more into anal than others. That's a fact that can't be denied. Not everything the left says is wrong only because the left says it. Most of it, yes, but not all.
>>81495352
>Yet people do have a genetic disposition toward a sexuality.
science say otherwise
in fact we just don't know
and until we know your point is invalid
>>81513172
>Lol I don't like that you source could prove me wrong so I'll discredit by saying that it isn't peer reviewed to shit.
It's from a book "The Fate of Empires", by Sir John Glubb written in 1976.
I'm not writing out a summary of a book on 4chan. Would you like me to assist you in finding a copy off Amazon?
Homos are buttbabies. They come out of the butt instead of the pussy
>>81499817
None gives a shit if you like sucking dick.
The thing is, homos are consumers. If they believe they are born this way that convince them that they need to stay homosexuals. If its a choice then it means that it can change. It's pushed agenda.
>>81499817
It's interesting, from a biological point of view.
But it can also be abused politically and economically. It's important that we find out what homosexuality is and to educate the public once we know it.
>>81499859
>There's a reason I'm racist today, it's because there's actual reason to be.
I wish I could go back to the idealistic times before I came to this realization.
I'm still for equal rights and equal treatment and I am well aware that there are a lot of individuals who are decent fellows, including one of my closest friends, but I will never be able to ignore the fact that there are racial differences.
Male child abuse victims are around 6 times more likely to be gay, I really wish the "born this way" meme would die, and that we hadn't voted for fag marriage here.
They're also 7 times more likely to be paedophile s.
>>81515224
Source from within the last 15 years?
>>81487120
Not an argument.
>>81487567
Not an argument.
>>81490455
This is refutable by literally anyone in high school biology.
>>81492640
Strawman much?
>>81495311
Nature doesn't "aim" for things like that. Otherwise we wouldn't have species with long term relationships or familial/allo-familial behaviors.
>>81486240
>implying "individual choices" exist separately from "environment"
>believing in free will in the year 2016
I'm gay and it's definitely not a fucking choice. Why would anyone choose something that will make people hate them? It's such a retarded question.
>>81515723
I'm on mobile but one is: A Profile of Pedophilia: Definition, Characteristics of Offenders, Recidivism, Treatment Outcomes, and Forensic Issues. Which is a review with many sources iirc
The incidence data is from the early 2000s, why does it matter how old it is? It doesn't suddenly become untrue.
>>81514174
I suppose I could be gay if
1) my family were in the past more accepting of the idea
2) I decided to fap to cock instead of pussy
Thing was that I did feel something toward cock maybe once or twice in the past, though I always put it off as something that wasn't meant to happen, coincidence, etc.
At the same time though, I'd never really felt anything toward women in general, and I'd never had a girlfriend, though this all might have something to do with me fapping practically every single day since I was 14.
>>81515723
There are no sources. None refuting those numbers, nor acknowledging them.
Something tells me that those numbers haven't changed for the better, otherwise they would have been published. I guess people don't want to commit career suicide by not being politically correct.
>you can be conditioned to be homosexual and bisexual through experience and exposure over many many years
>but you can't be conditioned to be heterosexual that's homophobic
How many people on 4chan are now attracted to traps and men who look very feminine? There aren't a lot of homosexuals in the world but suddenly a ton crop up on a site that coincidentally posted homosexual content for years and years and years?
It's the same type of mental manipulation that becoming jaded brings. You're basically becoming jaded to homosexuality which opens you up to becoming more accepting of it for yourself, and by combining that with something you find pleasure in you slowly gaslight yourself into enjoying homosexual experiences.
This can be done both ways, homosexuality is a glorified fetish.
>>81495991
The goal of human life isn't reproduction to the greatest degree possible. Humans and most other intelligent species aim for quality of offspring rather than quantity. That's probably why females stop menstruating at 50ish and generally begin investing in the care of their grandchildren and adult children. It's also probably why male humans generally form long term bonds with serious partners after a while and stay around to take care of their kids.
>natural selection tries hard to remove fags
And yet, they've been around for millions of years. Perhaps natural selection isn't just going the way you want it?
>>81486240
>individual choices
But free will does not exist.
>>81497620
What about childhood sexual abuse and pedophilia? No links there?
>>81517091
this
A lot of scientists don't want to talk about non pc bullshit, as it's basically career suicide; nobody will fund you if you manage to break through the blinding smell of shit in the air
>>81516751
>Why would anyone choose something that will make people hate them? It's such a retarded question.
Non sequitur. People do all kinds of things that make people hate them. For example career criminals. Your argument shows how deeply insecure you are. It's an appeal to popularity.
>>81517283
Fags exist because of large amounts of estrogen in the womb before birth. If faggotry was genetically induced, then the gene that caused it would have slowly died out, as every single fag that had it would never actually reproduce.
>>81497620
There's a fundamental flaw in that research. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm not saying it's right, just to get that out of the way. The entire field is riddled with confirmation bias, agenda and the peer review is really just ideology checking, rather than fact checking.
>>81501221
see this post and links >>81509585
>>81486240
you're gay Op, get over it.
>>81509137
>prenatal hormones
That cause a complete reduction in fitness? Would be selected against.
>brain structure
WAT? Brain structure would share the causes of homosexuality, it wouldn't be a cause in and of itself. Brain structure is regulated by your genes, with environmental influences (diet, exposure to certain chemicals, physical trauma, etc)
>You're clearly the misinformed one
Says the guy that doesn't understand what natural selection is. If something stops organisms from passing on their genes, then the only organisms that will are those that adapt for this. This is why your "prenatal hormones" cause is bullshit - if hormones did that, then that is an evolutionary pressure to select for offspring that are resilient to such effects, or in favor of parents that do not cause such problems.
Learn Hamilton's Rule: rB>C, then come back to me.
>>81486602
>How would you refute this statement?
would you choose to be gay?
>>81490257
>(I don't plan to since I'm a Christian now).
just pray the whore away
>>81509585
>It is thought of possible that it's actually WOMEN carrying the genes.
Which would be a genetic cause and again, no. Again, obligate homosexuality is a 100% fitness loss, so the other offspring must have more than twice as many children to compensate, aka Hamilton's Rule - the cost must be offset by at least an equivalent gain by relatives.
Evidence that there's a fertility increase among women with gay children fail to note that there's never enough of an increase for the math to work out.
>>81518961
Even if it is genetic they get fucked, because then it's a mental illness caused through genetic abnormality and not a mental disorder caused through experience.
>>81491013
>I am abstinent and have never chosen to act on my orientation, but this was a bitter pill to swallow.
until some dad-type forces a kiss on you
>>81517283
>And yet, they've been around for millions of years.
There's no evidence for this. Although obviously pre-historical records are by definition unavailable, we know that existing hunter-gatherer societies - like our ancestors would have been like - have no concept of homosexuality. We have to explain it to them; they usually think we're joking.
Homosexuality seems to only show up when civilization does.
>>81499817
wrong
homosexuality spreading is a sign of civilisation decay
do you care about the amount of homeless people in your neighborhood ? You should for the same reason
it's a sign that something is wrong
>>81487120
t.RapedByAMoose
>>81494234
>Consciousness changes nothing
>Retarded Kermit meme
Why is it that every time someone posts that pic they are insanely wrong about the message they attach to it?
>>81495991
Blown the fuck out!
>>81486240
Mostly genetic, perhaps even an underlying, predetermining factor that "unlocks" depending on the individual's environment.
So yes, mostly genetic. But then what isn't anymore when it comes to human behavior now?
>>81491674
>Except there's no gay or criminal gene so your idea is retarded.
Except there is. It's literally called the warrior gene and most sociopaths, psychopaths and narcissists have it in their genetic coding, for example.
