Stop denying quality of life to the working class conservaCucks
>>80978175
As if China needs another economical bump or more American debt.
Le bump
>>80978175
Just lower income taxes instead, same effect but without the downsides
>>80978175
they dont need to raise it
they just need to drop the globalism shit and kick out millions of freeloaders who like to burn our flag
Why not make the minimum wage one million dollars an hour?
lol captcha with Pocahontas
>Cherokee Dartmouth
Because that's 46kish a year and no one fucking deserves that at McDonald's
>>80978175
It's cuckservatices, not conservacucks. And the cuckservative are precisely people like you who think legislation create wealth, a.k.a economically illiterate people.
You're welcome.
>>80980133
I can't wait for the implosion of the USD + crash of US economy, and the liberal art students having to work for the equivalent of 3 or 4$ /hour that they are, internationally, worth.
Why are they comparing the wage for the lowest-skilled workers to the average productivity of everyone? Most of the increase is due to highly-skilled workers, people flipping burgers for minimum wage now aren't 3x as productive than they were in 1960.
>>80978175
Would not have to increase min wage if you faggot cunts stopped raising taxes. Of coarse we know how liberals love raising taxes for dem programs.
>>80978175
Productivity has increase because employers have made investments in technology. Why do the workers deserve more money because their employer made an intelligent investment? An increase in minimum wage will just make inflation go up and we'll be back to square one but now people's savings will be worth less.
>>80980621
Sadly the damage is already done. The only way people can keep their savings it to increase the value of the dollar without printing more fiat currency. Back to the Gold standard.
It would kill small businesses the most who can't afford to pay unskilled labor $15 an hour. I have a 4 year IT degree, I would be pissed if some nigger burger flipper got paid as much as me for having 0 skills.
>>80978175
>implying burger flippers deserve $22/he
>liberals in charge of economics
I'm 19. I'm not listening to your problems. I live at my job and spend ime off at home working around the house and treating my family to dinner and drinks as thanks.
>graduated hs 2 years ago
>went from min wage to 20.25 now
>tons of overtime that I ASKED FOR
>10k in saving right now
>5k set aside for car payments
>meeting with realtor and financial advisor this summer on time off
Can someone in canada tell me what's best? Buy a house to rent out, develop cabin land, (both of these rural) or stick another 10k in td e-share or something?
>>80979962
But then whose gonna pay for dem programs and whose gonna fund the citizenship lotto. Citizenship lotto BTW is for illegals who make too much money to get a waiver for the application (about 650 dollars) so they pick 2000 random illegals a year who make too much money and pay for their application process fees.
>>80981222
Don't buy real estate until the bubble pops
If you aren't skilled enough to earn a living wage, why should you live?
>>80978175
>I'm nor an economist, but I AM a female politician so do what I say.
>or you're sexist and racist and deserve jail
Fuck this bitch.
America needs more exports. More exports mean more jobs. Problem solved
>>80981430
Until then though, I hear by 2018 well be going down fast. My gic is 2 years I'll get it March that year. Do I buy a 1 year right now? Pull everything out and pay off the car now fuck credit style? Buy 10k in gold?
>>80981336
Just do away with all that shit and have people buy citizenship for 50k. Welfare and programs don't do shit except drain money.
>but women and third worlders should work too!
gee i wonder why wages didn't rise
Yes the 14$ went to the bureaucrats like you Pocahontas.
>>80978175
22$ minimum wage would price shitskins out of the market lads.
Federal overtime laws need an overhaul. For example, I've been working since last Tuesday because of 4th of July and not a single hour of that went into overtime because of my pay period starting on this Monday.
It really should be a 7 day ROLLING calendar. None of this "hurr durr muh pay periods" bullshit. It's fucking bullshit that I have to work 10 days in a row and not get any overtime.
>>80983271
Fucking this. I am a shift manager at BK and I cannot wait for these. We can get rid of the stupidest most useless people.
>>80978175
Can't wait to see all the hipsters working at local coffee shops and pizzerias piss and moan after they lose their jobs. Do they seriously think these kind of jobs are what an adult should strive for?
>>80983539
Well I'm no hipster or liberal arts student personally but I have an IT degree and this sorta stuff the only available job I ever see in my own search, which really sucks. Employers honestly don't give a shit either way no matter what the min wage is.
>>80978175
$22/hr is still not that much. Why not $1000/hr? You don't hate poor people OP, do you?
>>80978175
You want to get rid of starter jobs for teenagers?
>>80983863
Why not a million?
It's arbitrary once you disconnect it from the market value of labor.
>>80980097
The Jews don't want everyone to be rich.
>>80983539
>muh artisanal minimum wage
Kek. I worked with a broad at little cases I highschool that was thrilled. Her husband worked demo and between housing her 200$ cheques were lavish spending money
what if warren becomes pres and the economy becomes good again? I just want the country to in a good condition, I don't care who gets in.
>>80978175
She's right though, implying you keep a minimum wage. She should stick to arguing about credit debt and student debt.
#End the Min Wage
Federal minimum wage should be $0.
Sates vary too much.
>>80983925
They don't understand anything about economics. Warren is famous for her interviews where she discussed predatory lending then became senator and didn't do shit against banks.
>>80978175
There are several factors going into the wage rate and productivity, one of the most obvious is technology. It's no coincidence everything is so cheap while wages have stagnated, technology is filling that gap. Another huge factor is immigration and globalization. Globalization is great for the 3rd worlders getting tons of jobs at $2/hour but not so great for the guy in the west losing his job at $18/hour. Immigration is only beneficial when there's a lot of slack in the job market and positions need to be filled, but this is always temporary in any market. New people move into any sector where there's a high demand, like college kids getting an MBA and making $80k out of college. Eventually the gaps get filled and there's a surplus so those jobs "dry up" and the slack moves on. The commodity sector is a great example as it tends to swing like mad, going from huge surpluses to huge gaps in labor. If we really wanted the wage rate to rise and for the country to flourish, we'd drop immigration to 0, kick out illegals and prevent further illegal immigration. In general, teenagers and blacks would benefit the most as they're the least skilled groups. But we don't want the black man well employed...he might become a conservative...
>>80985023
But then won't some states decide to be like "fuck you" to workers and not have a min wage either if it was just up to them? Basically making most of them slave labor?
>>80978175
>implying lazy ass neets should make $22 an hour flipping patties at Burger King
If this happens most of the work force is getting replaced by robots.
>>80985224
You could federally mandate that states set a minimum wage that is liveable for one person and just not define a number.
>>80978175
Minimum wage should be 100 bucks per hour. Then you would need to work just few hours a week. But racist republicans just want to keep poor people poor, man.
>>80978175
>promise to kill taxes for poverty and low income
>increase min wage to the point where youd be above the low income/poverty line and get taxed hard because free free free programs
What a troll
>>80985662
But that'll just piss off "muh state's rights" people still. "How dare the gov tell us we gotta give people a living wage"
>>80978175
how about we just coordinate the raise the value of the money so rent is 100.00 and a soda costs 5c?
>>80985190
you forgot about women in the workforce. DOUBLING the number of wagecucks make everyone more expendable. Even she knows it contributes but won't fess to it for being un-PC.
>>80983517
Then you'll be next once they only need GMs around
>>80978175
and then the price of a mountain dew would be $6.99
Why is that bitch so nasty. She looks as disgusting as she sounds.
Gross peice of trash needs to be thrown in the back of a garbage truck. Worthless.
>>80985190
>black male
>conservative
hahaha even employed (for however little that lasts), blacks will never be conservative. LBJ got them niggers voting democrat for the next 400 years.
>>80982436
Pay off your car. You gain nothing by owing on it.
>>80978417
/thread
>>80986087
I have to say that women really shot themselves in the foot with that one. They fell for the "work makes you free" meme. Now women HAVE to work because men don't bring home enough money.
>>80986363
You're probably right...
>>80981060
>>80981083
This proves the economic mental failings of conservashits. If the min wage goes up, all climb the ladder career wages go up. Inflation only goes up in certain markets due to an increase in wages, but the value of work itself is increased. Another plus is that you no longer need to have niggers and zitty teenagers touching your food, they will be forced into jobs such as sanitation and factory jobs which will have flat wages for 99% of workers in those respective industries. Anything requiring tiered wages will increase such as retail and professional jobs. So in other words a supervisor at McDonald's who used to make $14/hr will now be making $28/hr while the workers who used to be below her will be making a dollar more than what he/she used to make.
>>80986474
Im 19 so I'd like to ask. Does credit really mean fuck all in a recession? Will I just be looked at as a lump sum? That -5k will just be offset when they see I have it and I'll be nothing more than extra paper work?
>>80988569
So you artificially increase the value of burger flipping? Pray tell, nigger, how making a line cook and a manager more equal makes sense? How devaluing sanitation, mill workers and the like will push your weak underclass into those fields? Or are you trying to justify your recently added responsibility of dealing with pissed off customers who your pothead employees shorted a nugget?
>>80978175
Min wage push explained:
Automation is right now eliminating the jobs we outsourced over the last 25 years. As the cost of labor drops it becomes more and more economical to move production closer to the market, as the transportation costs begin to overcome the labor costs as you reduce the number of unskilled workers you need. So what do you do if you're a marxist commie traitor and you want to keep jobs out of the USA?
>>80988569
How does that work then? Instead you're going to see "Why study, I can easily live off being a barista". That's what happened here in the Netherlands which has a decent minimum wage and the cost of studying went WAY the fuck up.
In 1 year, a 8500 drop in applicants. That's fucking HUGE for a small country like us.
>>80990509
import more shitskins and have the goyim pay for them to go to school boom problem solved.
>>80990459
>So what do you do if you're a marxist commie traitor and you want to keep jobs out of the USA?
You're saying they'd choose to raise minimum wage here to make the transportation costs *seem* smaller in comparison just out of spite for the American worker?
>>80988569
and the failings of an apparent libtard in reading history. minimum wages have gone up yet average wages remain the same and purchasing power has gone down.
>>80990223
Spotted the sanitation worker. Good luck with those stagnant wages regardless.
Ps you completely failed to understand my knowledge bomb. I was saying those who say the wages will remain the same as the minimum wages in lower tier positions are economically retarded and you proved it. I will however repeat myself so you can actually potentially absorb the truth. All wages increase in industries with tiered jobs, so no your argument that a supervisor and burger flipper will be equal is null and void. The price of the goods will be slightly inflated but better customer service will be the trade off because increased demand keeps competitive businesses from inflating to match wages. In other words people have more money to spend, demand for goods increases and all losses are accounted for. Any argument that inflation will increase across the board is misleading at best and propagandized thought at worst.
So if automation is going to be pushed to replace jobs, why isn't there a breeding control program?
Stupid people keep fucking and producing more stupid offspring that keep eating away our resources.
>>80991330
And where will the businesses magically get this extra money for the transitional period? You're effectively doubling their spending. Big companies like Google can handle such a blow but small companies like restaurants often barely make a profit as it is.
>>80978175
If the minimum wage kept pace with inflation since it was first enacted, it would be about $3.45
>>80991504
Welfare will be phased out by 2024, this was always the plan for both sides of the political parties.
>>80991330
and what about the hordes of low-skill workers (women, immigrants, and teenagers) who compete for those bottom rung slots? it's like musical chairs and the competition feeds into the stagnant wages.
>>80991504
>breeding control program?
The US had one of these for a few years, but they called it something else.
>Various scientific surveys of Iraqi deaths resulting from the first four years of the Iraq War estimated that between 151,000 and over one million Iraqis died as a result of conflict during this time. A later study, published in 2011, estimated that approximately 500,000 Iraqis had died as a result of the conflict since the invasion. Counts of deaths reported in newspapers collated by projects like the Iraq Body Count project found 174,000 Iraqis reported killed between 2003 and 2013, with between 112,000-123,000 of those killed being civilian noncombatants.
>>80991646
>Welfare will be phased out by 2024
you're delusional
>im shaquiqui and i work at mcdonalds for my 6 kids, gib me $22
>>80992468
haha good one
no one has made this joke before!
hilarious stuff mate!
Minimum wage jobs are for teenagers to earn pocket money. If you're over the age of 18 and still making minimum wage just go ahead and kill yourself now.
Why is this even an issue? Most minimum wage jobs will be automated within the next 20 years.
>>80991646
and you base that on what exactly?
>>80992552
we get it, you work for minimum wage and are on welfare
>>80992552
>mad cuz its true
>>80991330
>spotted the sanitation worker
Nope.
And tell me what isn't a tiered industry? Have you never heard of management, foremen, health and safety, estimators, all the small guys that technically just sub themselves out? And what the fuck do you insinuate next? That by upping the price on burgers people will be inclined to buy more? That by turning mcdonalds into a high service restaurant people will pay high service prices and accept low quality food? Also, how won't inflation increase across the board? Just as the garbage truck moves to a driver with a single automated arm, the restaurant will move to a cashier less environment. How will hordes of lower class people compete with one another? The 4 feasible options are
>resort to a primitive society
>closed borders and eugenics practices
>socialized basic income
>a new "decade of decadence" until you go the way of the Romans
>>80978417
What are tariffs?
>>80992655
>>80992679
>if i shitpost enough maybe i'll fit in
>>80992552
>American flag
>mate
>>80992787
taxes on trade
>>80991869
>>80992606
Just save my post and keep an eye on the US welfare system. It's simply not tenable any more in 2025 so the choices are the death of the US or getting rid of welfare.
>>80992801
maybe if i beg for higher minimum wage, ill fit in with the cucks at black lives matter
>>80991591
Check commodity prices and you'll see how far that chart is off. A dollar is worth between .02 and .04 from those days.
>>80992912
you don't even live here you misinformed shit. you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
>>80992975
>haha i said cuck! am i cool yet?
![productivity-and-real-wages[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/7NFlBGR.jpg "productivity-and-real-wages[1]")
>>80978175
I'm a conservashit and I generally agree with this sentiment. Not really in favor of legislating minimum wage though. Maybe we should make it harder for American businesses to do their major production in overseas sweatshops with what is essentially slave labor, except the people there have it so bad from their own governments they're begging to be slaves.
>>80993058
>yes
>>80978175
you will kill small businesses and make america less competitive . there will be no agricultural production but tobacco in america because nobody will be able to buy american oranges and strawberries. farmers raise their prices when minimum wage goes up
>>80992801
>shitposts
>makes fun of people for shitposting
Why the fuck would I want to fit in on a Vietnamese fur-trading board? Give me one good reason why we should pay people more than their worth
>>80990995
I'm saying they are desperate to keep labor costs prohibitively high here so that it never becomes profitable to move back. That's why they are going for such a large increase, 7.25 to 15.00? Fucking absurd. There is no reasonable justification to raise it by that much. At the same time it fucks small businesses right in the ass. In fact this will probably result in even more jobs being outsourced.
>raise min wage
>everybody takes their business to china
>now joe sixpack makes $0 an hour instead of $8
wow what a great non solution
>>80978175
Money doesn't have intrinsic value, raising minimum wage does not magically increase purchasing power. People in the past "made less" but had more purchasing power. But i wouldn't expect a faggot liberal to understand economics.
>>80993154
low wages is caused by the federal reserve policies. There was never a problem while the US was on the gold standard.
>>80991580
>transitional period
There is none. As soon as people start making more money they will start spending more money. This means all businesses including small businesses will increase their overall revenue. There will also be an increase in entrepreneurial incentive because of the increase in demand. This will create the jobs we need and circumvent the problem of corporations globalizing our economy. The demand for cheap goods from china will decrease as retail standards are raised. Nobody is going to settle for junk when they can afford quality. I think it's kind of funny how economic conservatives are rightfully against the global initiative but then they are against increasing the minimum wage because the globalists want us to compete. That is some backwards thinking shit if you ask me. It's like saying you're against what they're doing but you're going to play into their game because they're going to ship the jobs anyway. These idiots would still be arguing against the minimum wage even if we passed legislation to keep the jobs here. Talk about useful cuckery and the "libtards" are supposed to be the chucked ones,
>>80978175
Does Warren know anything about economics?
When you massively import third world unskilled labor the demand of jobs and wages will go down, combined with the printing of unsubstantiated money to build even more debt.
>>80993154
Sector productivity has gone up drastically due to computer systems and automation, what does that chart prove? More robots is better.
>>80978175
Technology.
>>80993318
>everybody takes their business to china
how do you outsource the service industry?
>>80981060
Lol I work at walmart and $14.50 an hour doing almost nothing lol, and im going to night school so my passion can become my income, enjoy your crippling debt fag
>>80978175
In what way has the productivity of waiters gone up in the last 55 years?
>>80993597
you hire a bunch of them for less since you have women and immigrants in the labor pool to drive the wages down
>>80978175
Yeah, because price floors that actually affect anyone don't necessarily produce deadweight loss.
Oh.
Wait.
>>80992787
Yeah, I too love the idea of paying $250 for a pair of shitty sneakers that last three months.
All raising the minimum wage would do is devalue the dollar. Sure people earn more but now shit costs more so you end up having at best the same amount of money as before.
>>80993539
Hire illegals.
>>80993539
Close your doors because it isn't sustainable. Have fun never going out to eat unless you want to spend $500 per person because all the basic cooks earn $22 an hour as do the waiters.
>>80993766
consumers/customers will not find this acceptable. "illegals" are only hired where they cannot be seen.
>>80993746
well, people who get the wage increase will probably be a bit better off. But less of them will be employed. And the ones that are will need to pay more tax to cover the welfare of the the extra unemployed people.. so yeah. Not a huge win
>>80993746
>All raising the minimum wage would do is devalue the dollar
this is completely wrong. the rate of inflation is controlled by the federal reserve, not the minimum wage. stop posting.
>>80978175
liberals should not worry about minimum wage but keeping themselves out if my concentration camps after jan 20th.
you guys deserve all you will get.
>>80993964
Other factors affect it anon. If minimum wage increases then by extension the cost of good and services that depend on minimum age labour will get more expensive.
When goods and services get more expensive without improving in quality, that means the dollar is less valuable because you can buy less with it. That's what inflation is.
>>80993174
>you will kill small businesses
That's what they want. All industrial and commercial sectors conglomerated and monopolized.
>>80993961
+1 for potato nigger. The second that shit goes in I'm siging out of society. Unless they decide the jobs that are left have to be filled by white males in the name of progressiveness. In which case I'd just self immolate
>>80981060
just because someone makes more doesn't mean you make less
>>80978175
>work minimum wage job at college
>the lady I work for talks about how we are losing money cause our governor hasn't signed the budget yet (Illinoisfag on vacation, thank you Rauner for pissing of the libshits)
>Lady I work for asks me if I wouldn't enjoy a raise to 15$
>mfw she doesn't realize the college wouldn't be able to handle a doubling the pay for all the student employees
>>80993456
She's only right if EVERYONE is making minimum wage. God she is insufferable.
>>80994197
>Other factors affect it anon
no, the federal reserve has strict control over the money supply and wages are a very very small cost in service industry spending.
stop repeating things you've been told because they "feel" right. they aren't, and you're wrong.
>>80992912
They will have no enact martial law in ghettos and greatly expand their prison industrial complex.
So, there won't be any benefits in abolishing welfare.
>>80993539
Easy. You fly in a janitor from Poland every day, he cleans your toilet, and you fly him back.
>>80994542
you're ugly irl
>>80994542
.....aaaaaaaaaand filtered.
Thanks.
>>80978175
Nah
>>80994539
The only welfare niggers and immigrants should get is a plane ticket
>>80992771
So businesses will cease to compete? People will continue to eat McDonald's and shop at Walmart now that they can afford not to? What you're missing is the fact that suppliers hire more people at a flat wage than the retailers. So on the supply side, competitiveness remains the same. It increases for the retailers because they need to hire more tiered wage workers. Luckily the suppliers of multinational corporations are not going to change one bit, so the price of international goods will stay the same. This will keep domestic markets competitive and keep inflation at bay. You can thank the global initiative in place for that, it is good for consumers now but not so much when quality becomes affordable. They will lose so much money so fast, and small businesses will be the ones claiming the lost revenue.
>>80993886
Or where they're cleaning pools and carrying gardening implements and doing housework.
>>80994628
I'm pretty good looking actually.
>>80994652
Farewell /reddit/
>>80978175
Yes, please do this. We need more jobs for automation engineers.
>>80978175
>quoting a subhuman prairie nigger
i think you need to cook a little longer in the oven you lysol drinking abbo wannabe.
>>80994872
>>I'm pretty good looking actually.
no you aren't
>>80994364
>the federal reserve has strict control over the money supply
Not even that is true. If it was the inflation would always be exactly at the federal reserve's target. The tools the federal reserve have are limited.
In any case raising minimum wage reduces the productivity of the economy. It costs more to produce the same stuff. The fed can devalue the dollar, but that doesn't recreate the lost wealth. It just lowers the price of absolutely everything, including wages and savings. Thus everyone who saves get's fucked and people who are in deep debt and take out large loans are rewarded.
>>80994968
>In any case raising minimum wage reduces the productivity of the economy. It costs more to produce the same stuff.
you're only looking at this from one side.
a higher minimum wage means more money that does not go towards essential expenditures and debt service, meaning more money is spent into the economy. on top of that, a higher minimum wage has always been shown to put upward pressure on wages overall, meaning nearly everyone's wages will rise.
>>80994964
You'd have a very non-standard aesthetic sense to think I wasn't. But that's fiiiine~
Don't you have some gay furry scat porn to attend to my Polish-descended friend?
>>80995175
and where does that value of that money come for?
could it be the present money supply?
is that not by definition inflation?
>>80995305
please leave
>>80995175
>a higher minimum wage means more money that does not go towards essential expenditures and debt service, meaning more money is spent into the economy
Except that price floors that affect anything at all *necessarily* produce deadweight loss~
>>80995374
Please keep baiting~
>>80995374
C'mon newfag.... pic related.
>>80978175
Can one of you libshits explain to me why productivity should have a direct correlation to minimum wage?
>>80995175
>a higher minimum wage means more money that does not go towards essential expenditures and debt service
how do you figure that?
>meaning more money is spent into the economy
cancelled out by the fact that everything get's more expensive. Which contracts the economy. If this logic were true you could literally make minimum wage $100 an hour and everything would be even better.
>meaning nearly everyone's wages will rise.
Raising wages are not good without rising productivity. That contracts the economy and makes the country less competitive. Also more people are unemployed, so taxes are higher to cover welfare costs.
>>80994774
Fair enough. Do you think in a first world isolationist country with high wages there would suddenly be less manufacturing though? Less resource extraction? Do you think the modern left would be ok with the exploitation you're explaining as long as they remain naive to it?
>>80995424
this has never happened
>>80985224
>not have a min wage
And how is this a bad thing?
>>80995585
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INA-_5i5VAQ
>>80995545
>cancelled out by the fact that everything get's more expensive.
please demonstrate a period where a minimum wage increase lead to a 1:1 increase in prices
(you can't, because it has never happened)
you cannot rewrite history anon.
>Raising wages are not good without rising productivity
when did productivity stop rising?
>>80995793
please demonstrate when and where this has happened in the united states as a result of a price floor increase
>inflation isn't making current wages worth less
>paco, pajeet, and jane from HR aren't saturating the labor market
>taxes taken out of paychecks and purchases doesn't effect the poor more than the rich
>prisoners working for next to nothing doesn't hurt the working class
>a weak dollar to increase exports to countries that aren't buying our shit isn't effectively a pay cut
>>80978175
The goods that the average minimum wage earner can consume is vastly better than those in the 1960.
Just compare a 1960 car with it's 2016 counterpart. Or just look at the fucking computer / smartphone you are using. NASA had nothing like that back in the 1960s.
>>80978175
>strangle the free market
>free market why you no work!?!
Classic libtard logic.
>>80995175
>hey guys, let's fill up this pool by taking water from this pool and putting it in this pool
>omg why is the water level not rising
t. (you)
>>80978175
China happened.
Trump will raise the minimum wage through economic means not through government force
>>80995893
Every price floor ever - here's a second demonstration~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65kfAswiHLk
>>80978175
Except everyone's wage would've risen at the same rate so we'd be in the same situation.
>>80995175
That is always the conservative viewpoint's conveniently missed aspect of economics which is supply and demand. When people make more money, demand increases for not only the goods themselves but the quality of the goods and where they are from/being sold. The best way to look at min wage increase is an investmentment by the employer class in the working class to generate more domestic money in the economy. If they really want to create jobs here, they would want to increase the minimum wage to increase the demand for domestic goods. Demand is the key to creating the supply domestically which is the only incentive for them to create jobs here. If they can make more money off of you eating the poison and buying junk products because you can't afford anything better, the demand for domestic jobs will never exist. Increasing the minimum wage is the only thing to reach that demand.
>>80996029
yes consumer goods are artificially lowered but all the big purchase( food, education, healthcare and housing) have increased to compensate.
>>80979962
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
oh god
Provide proof that raising minimum wage has a positive effect on the people it's made for.
>>80996159
>marginal revolution university
lol please just leave
Is anybody going to even attempt to explain why productivity and minimum wage should have a direct correlation?
The OP's entire premise is not only flawed, but just downright retarded.
>>80995807
>please demonstrate a period where a minimum wage increase lead to a 1:1 increase in prices
Not 1:1, but the effect is cancelled out ultimately. You need more welfare to pay for the extra unemployed. The extra wages companies need to pay will certainly directly factor in the the price they can sell goods and services for. It most likely won't take effect immediately. Some companies will go into debt while they work out new prices. Governments can go into more debt to cover the welfare costs. But ultimately all the debt needs to be paid. Prices *must* eventually go up.
>when did productivity stop rising?
What I mean is wages should rise naturally due to free market forces. The Fed has been fucking it up since the 70's since leaving the gold standard. There's a reason wages were rising fine before this, then suddenly stopped.
You can up the minimum wage to under pin general raises in wages, which is what normally happens. What's not good is simply raising them simply because people claim they can't afford to live on them. This does not help people in the end, it puts more of them out of work. You can't force peoples labour to be worth more like this, it just doesn't work.
>Raise minimum wage
>Tradefags butthurt
>Prices go up
>Everything remains the same
>People who are unemployed get royally assfucked
>>80996541
>Not 1:1, but the effect is cancelled out ultimately.
empirical evidence. show me it.
>$22/hr jobs won't hire you now
>they still don't when the min. wage is $22/hr
Great job, you're unemployed.
>>80996655
There's no empirically evidence for almost anything in economics anon. I can explain why it happens with basic logic. Please point out why I'm wrong.
So when burger flippers earn $15, won't skilled workers and tech workers ask for a proportionate increase? Because now a low level tech worker makes as much as a McDonald's worker.
>>80978175
>Trying to keep Blacks out of the workforce by pandering to muh "working class"
Fuck that racist cunt. The "working class" is just an euphemism for the unionized bourgeoisie.
We must arm the Blacks. These liberals want them out of the economy and have no problem bringing in tons of Mexicans to displace them.
>>80996398
Every single school of economics in the country has the same conclusion~
Here's many mooooore sayin' the same thing~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjXwvQz7f2o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EzY4Vl460U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgBPAucs-W4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qin2rz8aKsk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnqKB5WekPI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxD3K2ikXNc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbU6TdrnqmU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJocSeeqRD8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJnCxnCtWnI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5SxRjHCKqI
>>80980133
imbecile
>>80980275
>theres a difference
>>80996744
i'm not really interested in spending my time disproving conjecture
>>80992787
this desu
>>80996853
thank you for the macro 101 lesson.
>>80996224
Don't forget that clothing is cheaper, furniture etc.. But you are correct in that the inflation tax has cost the average joe huge amounts, but there has still been a decrease in prizes.
Housing prizes have increased, but so has housing standards. I have lived newly built apartment complexes, apartment complexes built in the 1960s and several built a century ago, the newer ones are simply much better.
That aside, housing in Sweden is insanely expensive because of ridiculous regulations and the average worker paying 68% in tax on his salary. Education in Burgerstan is pretty fucked up generally, but the education system is increasingly not worth it.
Food is cheaper than ever. We don't really have functionary healthcare in Sweden, but it is manageable. The insurance system in Clapistan seems to be fucked up, even before Obama-care screwed it up.
>>80996878
Do as you will. But the simplest explanation of things is usually the correct one. It's not hard to understand if the cost of various resources in the economy goes up, then the cost of buying shit in that economy will go up and thus there is inflation. It's not complex. I would expect even a libtard can understand it.
>>80997035
You need it, given everything you've professed about how you think price floors function~
>>80991330
>"no no, you didn't listen to me, I said you're retarded"
>"I will, however, for my own fucking ego's sake repeat my bullshit."
FTFY
>all wages increase in industries with tiered jobs
all is incorrect, some will, while others may not, and more often than not the difference will be low. (i.e. 10/hr worker, 12/hr supervisor)
What that means, you incompetent fuck, is that less people will move upward, because it is not worth 2/hr extra (equivalently 4k/yr ish) to deal with these guys and their horse shit, who, like you, think they're entitled to these fry cook jobs that pay amazing with benefits and all that shit, when they could be replaced on less than half that magical salary with a robot that can do more, longer, with lower maintenance and regulations.
>the price of good will be "slightly" inflated
They will double in price. Roughly. that's not "slightly," and even your jaded, bullshit ass "logic bomb" won't even let you spew that shit unfettered.
>increased demand keeps business
from nothing. More customers only means more sales. Extrapolate from there, you get back to the START of the problem, not the end. That job will get automated faster than you can type.
>any argument that inflation will increase across the board is misleading
not true. when you pay the lowest common denominator as much as their superiors used to be paid, you lower everyone elses value above them. 16 year olds do not deserve a car, house, and food for flipping my burger.
You sir, are a retard. your argument holds no backing, and you're just a libtard with faux logic.
Fuck off.
>>80997178
you don't actually know how price floors function though.
>>80993539
Robots.
>>80997373
>They will double in price. Roughly.
again, more things that have never happened, but they will if the higher minimum wage boogeyman gets it's way.
>>80997396
And "you're ugly".
>>80997520
you are though. how could anyone take you seriously when you can't even take care of your own appearance?
>>80980621
Basically this. It looks like am doing three times the amount of work that I used to, but honestly it is the software that handles most of it. Hell, I'm probably lazier now than before.
>>80978175
States with poor economies like Maine would crumble. Notice how the states with the best economies like MA and CA raised their minimum wage recently while the rest remain stagnant
>>80997516
>goods haven't increased in price by double
>what was nafta.txt
>what was a nickel worth in 1940.txt
>what is inflation.txt
read these, and fuck off.
>>80993339
>not ending the federal reserve
>not ending fiat currency
>not doing anything about the bankers
>>80996520
I've explained it in my other posts but I will say it again: supply and demand. More money being spent domestically creates the demand for domestic goods. Once there is a demand for the goods there will be a demand for domestic suppliers as well because all industries will be taken back from the multinational corporations and given to entrepreneurial businesses in this country. The reason the walmarts and costcos have dominated is because the demand for cheap imported goods is high because of the cost of living is high. If wages are increased demand for those goods will decrease drastically.
>>80978175
What does the minimum wage matter when no one except illegals and millionaires will have a job after another decade of Democrat rule?
>>80997584
>I don't actually know how price floors function, but I'll keep saying things like "a higher minimum wage means more money that does not go towards essential expenditures and debt service, meaning more money is spent into the economy" and every single economist on the planet who disagrees with me (which is virtually all of them, given the basic assumptions of economics necessitate their conclusion) is just wrong
>>80997795
>best economies
>CA
I don't know what you've heard, but as a business owner out here, that's really untrue.
Most of it's artificial.
>>80978175
You're acting as though minimum wage is a right.
The minimum wage should be adjusted according to race and sex
>Native Americans $30hr
>Black/Muslim women $28hr
>Black men $25hr
>White/Hispanic women $20hr
>Asian women $18hr
>Asian men $17hr
>Muslim men $15hr
>White men $10hr
>>80997978
but that will never happen according to libtards.
>>80988569
Your logic is so warped it's unreal. Very few people in the United States work for minimum wage like elsewhere in the world. If you think raising the wage of 5% of the U.S. population will somehow double everyone else's income you should literally end yourself.
>>80998082
Sounds great actually. Maybe we can convince some libtards to support this?
It would pretty much make everyone but white men unemployed in low skilled work.
>>80990509
why would anyone want to pay to educate themselves? that's fucking stupid. there will always be a group of people who are willing to go the extra mile and get a more fulfilling job. those 8500 people who stop applying for fucking college are not only smart in some ways (they dodged a huge bullet from paying), but they are also not going to have the skills that others will certainly obtain.
>>80997981
what i posted is actually demonstratable to be true though.
you just linked some videos about price floors and pretended to be correct because you repeated things you read on another website or heard in a video that you think "sounds right".
>>80994774
>eat McDonald's and shop at Walmart now that they can afford not to?
These are far more convenience than cost. Cooking your own meals every day would be the cheapest way to live but very few poor people do it.
The biggest issue with this is that even if everything works out as well as you are claiming foreign production will still be cheaper and will still be used by large corporations. Low labor force participation rate is a much worse issue than low wages are, and raising minimum wage will work against that.
>>80978175
See "price floors".
>>80992988
You're basing the whole thing on commodities? Don't you realize is the whole point of commodities is that they become rarer, and increase value over time, independent of inflation? Are you really this stupid, or are you a shill?
Something better to base it on would be cheeseburgers. I can currently buy more cheeseburgers on minimum wage than I could in the 1950's.
>>80978175
this is ridiculous
as someone who works a minimum wage job my job isn't worth $15 and if they had to pay me that i'd probably not have a job
this is all being pushed by rich idiots who know nothing of the real world
>>80988569
>Inflation only goes up in certain markets due to an increase in wages
like rent, property prices, food etc. The cost of everything will rise a bit as every business relies on low skilled labour at some point, if not directly then when buying good and services from companies that do.
>>80998304
>make everyone but white men unemployed
Well no, we would have to increase the current EEO/affirmative action mandates to ensure that white men are hired ONLY if there is no one else applying for the position
>>80978175
You want to be replaced by kiosks? Those burger-flipping niggers and spics are already shitting bricks because they'll (very) soon be obsolete.
>>80998473
Also, this.
Drooling drug addicts wouldn't know what to do with $15/hour.. they'd have way more ability to fuck up their own finances, in turn, skyrocketing the economy into debt.
>>80978175
Get a better job asshole
Minimum wage is for teens summer jobs
Don't make a career out of flipping burgers
>>80998612
>skyrocketing the economy into debt.
ah yeah
no one has any debt now, lol
>>80978175
I'm a conservative, and to be honest, she's right. Many industries have been practically monopolized, and the money has gone to a very select few at the top.
Problem is, that means now only those select few could afford a $22 minimum wage. If it happened, the monopolization would be further enforced.
The dollar needs more spending power, that's the only real solution, but it is much easier said than done.
>>80998772
I love how libtard rocket is always:
>We have lots of debt already, things can't get worse if we have way more debt!
>>80993964
The worth of any dollar is how much you can buy with it. One of the most accurate, simple, and universal ways people have found to figure out an objective worth for a type of currency is the price of a MacDonald hamburger. So if this change in minimum wage would conceivable change the price of a MacDonalds hamburger, it would absolutely devalue the dollar. It would have market spanning changes, and all your expenses for the same things would cost more.
>>80978175
Shame that Warren is Hillarys cuckold, just like Bernie.
Maybe if they stuck to their convictions I'd tale them more seriously.
>>80998826
>but it is much easier said than done.
Just stop the Fed fucking with the markets. Things were fine before all that shit started. Wages rose with productivity until the US broke the gold standard.
>>80998367
>what i posted is actually demonstratable to be true though
Except it's not, while what price floors actually do is demonstrably true given basic economic assumptions that no one disagrees people generally validate as being true.
Let's explain it to you in text since you're too autistic to listen to spoken words.
Price Floors are minimum prices set by the government for certain commodities and services that it believes are being sold in an unfair market with too low of a price and thus their producers deserve some assistance. Price floors are only an issue when they are set above the equilibrium price, since they have no effect if they are set below market clearing price. (Are you following retard? Did you even know this is what a price floor is?)
When they are set above the market price, then there is a possibility that there will be an excess supply or a surplus. If this happens, producers who can't foresee trouble ahead will produce the larger quantity where the new price intersects their supply curve. Unbeknownst to them, consumers will not buy that many goods at the higher price and so those goods will go unsold. There will be economic harm done even if suppliers can look ahead and see that there isn't sufficient demand and cut back on production in response. There is still deadweight loss associated with this reduction in quantity, reflected in the loss of consumer and producer surplus at lower levels of production. Producers can gain as a result of this policy, but only if their supply curve is relatively elastic and therefore they have no net loss. Consumers will definitely lose with this kind of regulation, as some people are priced out of the market and others have to pay a higher price than before.
l e l ~
We instituted a minimum wage in my company. Everyone is furious that they didn't get pay raises. For example, we have people that mop the floors. These people look like we found them off the streets and put them in khakis and a polo. They don't smile and greet people. They do a half ass job of mopping the floor while listening to music on their phones and talking to their friends.
They went from getting paid $8/hr to $12/hr. They still do the same thing. Meanwhile, we have financial services personnel as well as other low wage cubicle busywork jobs getting paid the same amount. They're expected to attend important sales meetings, dress and act professionally, and keep busy with higher level tasks like justifying insurance claims on excel spreadsheets and taking phone calls from important business clients. They are fucking furious. Meanwhile, Tyrone just bought a new car with his raise and already got it repossessed.
Some of the other jobs got raises, largely operations personnel and management. But given the number of low level secretarial workers and the job market, it didn't make financial sense to give the cubicle monkeys raises.
What's sad is many of them are getting to be retirement age and they aren't getting annual raises like they should. They can't retire and all the money is being spent on the floor moppers, managers, and operations.
It's sad when people make such irrational decisions in business and people suffer because of it. Although well intended, floor moppers should make floor mopper wage, otherwise it fucks the entire spectrum of wages up.
>>80997373
>automated jobs
Terrible argument based in fallacious views of how an economy in the current age operates, not how it could be 200 years from now. Robots aren't replacing shit right now so just stop with this meme.
>but the higher ups will only make a few dollars more
Total bullshit. Those wages will increase according to the incentives of employment. Who is going to work as a supervisor if they're getting paid basically the same wages as the employees below them? Qualified work and wages will correlate just like they do now. Your argument denies the economic reality that can be observed right now, so your bs is discredited.
>I don't know how s&d works and don't care
I know you want economics to be black and white like your world view, but its nuanced as fuck. The fact that the biggest markets import their supply is proof that inflation will not increase in most markets. But demand will increase and domestic jobs will be created by small business as a result. By the time the big markets could push to inflate it would be too late because the market will already be too competitive after its broken down into supply and demand by new domestic markets.
>>80999585
I don't know why anyone would ever be "furious" over someone else getting paid more. Your company can pay people however it wants - unless your company is violating its contract with you there's absolutely no reason to be upset about anything.
>>80999104
>it was only muh gold
mass immigration, women entry to workforce, and globalization all were concurrent
>>80999668
>Robots aren't replacing shit right now so just stop with this meme.
Huh? My most of my local supermarkets have replaced a lot of their checkout staff with self-checkout stations. McDonalds are starting to replace their till staff with kiosks.
Expect self driving taxi's in a short period of time too. It's happening anon.
>>80999872
hmm, that's true. Still, the stop in wage increases seemed very sudden and definitive.
How about no minimum wage
Workers and companies decide what's best for them
>>80997909
>More money being spent domestically creates the demand for domestic goods.
How?
Suppose I give a poor person more money. Now he's off food stamps so he's paying for his food himself and gets the same shit he used to just the government doesn't pay for it directly anymore.
Or, suppose he now has enough money to have some extra over what he used to buy. He buys himself a nice Japanese TV or a German car. Maybe its a girl who decided to expand her wardrobe, but since the american textile industry has been killed off completely she has to buy foreign produced clothing.
You're claiming that people with more money will naturally buy domestic goods, but you have nothing to back it up. People buy foreign goods because they're cheaper and in many cases the only option after years of offshoring production. Japanese cars are often more American than the American cars are since they have more parts made and assembled here, but your average moron is going to buy American and put money into the pockets of the rich while buying foreign would actually help the common American worker more.
Your entire argument ignores the effects of globalization. The world is too connected.
>>80999585
>Waaahh, I didn't get fair treatment right away
This shit takes time to adjust. Of course they aren't going to increase everyone's wages right away especially if they voluntarily raised the minimum wage at that particular company. That's why we need a federal minimum wage because then all those wages would be forced to increase for them to get the same qualified workers as their competitors.
>>81000406
>That's why we need a federal minimum wage
>>80996853
>>80996159
>>80995793
Deadweight loss.
>>81000367
It's impossible to back up because it isn't possible. People who have money only for bare necessities will buy bare necessities. Distributing money from the rich to the poor will not suddenly make the poor want to colonize mars.
>>80978175
It went to the Jews. Call them out on it after you took their own advice of "following the money", do it and watch your career go down the toilet for being an anti-semite.
>>80978175
I dont give a FUCK what it is you're doing at a job
You should get the decency to be paid a living wage at it.
That means $25 an hour, or maybe 30.
Enough to buy your own house.
If you cant pay somebody that much then you dont deserve to be in business. And you should probably be shot too, you're a disgrace to the best country on the planet.
>>81000908
what was the point of this post?
>>81001296
king libtard has arrived
>>80978175
Why don't you just lower the maximum wage?
>>80999871
Go to 4 years of college and years of schooling otherwise
Get semi decent desk job
Floor mopping, drop out, honest loser gets paid the same as you. Why even bother going to college? Why strive to be better at all? That's why they are mad shit head
>>81000367
It's not so much which goods they buy but where they buy them from. For example, a poorfag buys all of his products from WalMart because he can't afford to buy them from the mom and pop stores. So he contributes to the economic monopoly that stimeys job growth and entrepreneurial incentive. Not to mention our major retailers hire people at low wages which doubly benefits them because A) they don't have to pay them much and B) most of their money is spent at the store so hiring poor workers willing to work for those wages ensures they will get the money right back. This prevents trillions from regenerating into our domestic economy especially since most of the goods bought by these retailers are imported.
>>80994245
yes it does. have you not fucking heard of inflation?
>>81001564
Dunno about lib...
Sure as hell love me some guns
I just consider anybody who has alot of money (corporations, big business) to be in possession of a weapon of mass destruction and as a result - they lose their freedom with how it is handled. Simple as that. They must be forced to serve the public trust as a result. Since they dont prove to do so naturally.
>>81001838
>They must be forced to serve the public trust as a result.
They are. But raising the minimum wage does not help that. It sucks that low skilled wages are low, but raising minimum wage will make the situation worse overall. There are better solutions.
>>81001714
Thats not the issue.
The issue is valuing Human Labor in general.
Effort, not the type of work being done.
Maybe something else needs to change if you cant get much of a job with 4 years of college. Maybe there's something wrong with college.
But this (Wage earning) needs to be fixed fast.
>>80979962
I'd rather no income tax and increase consumption/ luxury taxes.
Tax processed food and prepared/packaged foods high, nothing on raw or natural foods.
Fuels and energy taxed, but it goes towards solar and such projects.
Vote for me
Why should there be a minimum wage? So what if the current one isn't enough to live off of? If you want higher pay, get promoted or find another job.
>>81001714
>Why even bother going to college?
Maybe you fucking shouldn't if you end up regretting it~
Attending a university isn't the only way one can "strive to be better". Monetary incentive isn't the only value one might have toward "striving to be better". Implying you need to be paid more in order to have *ANY* reason to strive to be a better person is the mark of a materialistic moron who thinks he deserves shit in life just because you've done this that or the other. No one owes you *jack shit* that they never agreed to owe you.
Entitled millennial fucks, holy shit you're cancer.
>>80993746
>I'm a cheap jew, so I will cave into the desires of the global elite and say fuck you to my fellow country men.
Are libertarians more or less retarded than liberals?
>>81002058
If you cant afford the decency to pay somebody a living wage for the effort they expend for you... to value them being alive...
Then you shouldnt be in business.
Business is a service that you provide to your community. Its a position of humility, to be an employer.
Any employers who dont believe that can be dragged out in the street and shot. And I doubly fucking mean that, with a passion. The global consequences would be worth it to be rid of these fuckers.
>>81002151
>inb4 outrage and desperate defense about being implicated as having an unwarranted sense of self-entitlement
Please don't be as hilariously predictable as everyone expects. We don't need any more evidence that the Borg are who we're dealing with.
>>81001726
>where they buy them from.
And what makes you think they'll change their shopping habits when they have a bit more money?
You think you can give some poor person extra cash and they'll think, "oh, great, now I can pay more for my groceries down at Frank and Barbara's instead of getting cheaper food from those evil capitalist pigs at walmart!"? Because they won't.
They'll take that extra money and blow it on lotto tickets, booze, or maybe foreign cars and electronics. The amount that would be put into the domestic economy (to workers rather than corporations, anyway) isn't as significant as you seem to think.
>>80985224
>not having a minimum wage
>bad thing
Leftshits everyone
Face it, the world is not your erotic revolutionary fantasy where you have ruthless fascist employers wanting to make workers as miserable as possible vs brave heroic but oppresses proletarians ready to overthrow the government. Social claas isn't a big dichotomy. Grow up.
>>80978175
I'll never take Pocahontas seriously, sorry.
>>81001296
If you want to be able to afford your own house flipping burgers, you have to do one of two things;
Drastically increase the number of houses
Drastically decrease the number of burger flippers
Your 30$/hour won't buy you a house if every burger flipper makes that much and there aren't enough houses around to justify letting you buy one for the same amount it would've cost you before you and every man, woman, and child got their salaries tripled.
>but wages will stay the same for college graduates and those with actually marketable skills
No they won't. No force in the universe can make a highschool graduate sign up to go to medical school if mopping floors only pays a couple of dollars less than curing diseases.
>>81002534
>oppressed
>class
t. phoneposting
>>81002410
>...
Reddit go home.
Workers aren't being forced to work these jobs, they agreed to. If the pay wasn't good enough then they should have found somewhere else to work. Businesses are under no obligation to pay any more than its workers are willing to work for.
>>81002151
YOU SHOULDN'T
Many years ago, during your grandfather's days, college was known as a place where people went to be Lawyers... Scientists... and Doctors.
For flying fucks sake you dont need a degree in business management to start a fucking business. What a scam.
I learned the hard way after 4 years of college (and failing out) that I never needed to do any of that to get a nice good job.
Most decent career paths can be acquired through Certifications, or a technical college.
But they dont teach you that in guidance counciling do they?
>>81002410
>If you cant afford the decency to pay somebody a living wage for the effort they expend for you... to value them being alive...
>Then you shouldn't be in business.
That's a nice notion. But making it illegal to pay anyone something lower than a "living wage" will have the direct effect of:
1) Putting low wage workers out of work, so they either starve to death, depend on family to support them or government to support them
2) Higher rent costs for the people who do work, as more money chases after the same properties
3) Higher costs of any goods and services that depend on low skilled labour, which is a lot
4) Higher taxes to cover the extra people now on welfare
You can't just arbitrarily raise the minimum wage for the sake of social justice. For the same reason rent controls are bad and socialist economies are don't work. Raising wages this way will only make a bad situation worse. There are better ways to fix it.
>>80978175
No. If people want a living wage, they should get a real education and learn to do useful work. The only thing holding the poor back is their own indolent laziness, greed, and selfishness.
>>81002066
Spoiler alert. Humans have no intrinsic values. The only things we as a society truly need are qtbois and alcohol.
>>81002706
Wrong.
There is such a thing as people Doing what they Love To Do for a living.
In fact that's the way it should be. People are supposed to go for the jobs they love to do.
And they should be properly compensated just as well for doing something they hate doing.
Nobody really likes flipping burgers, a small percent of people may like it. And because its a shitty job that means you should be paid as much as anybody else - as compensation for that.
>>80978175
Sure. Why not raise min wage to $100/hr? In your fantasy world, that'd be awesome, no??
>>81002979
I agree for the most part - I don't think it's worth it for most people. There are people for whom it is worth it even if they don't get a career from doing so though. Employment and future income aren't the only values someone might weight when deciding whether to shell out for and attend uni or not.
>>81003175
>Humans have no intrinsic values
Please substantiate that.
>>80999871
So first of all, you're full of shit. You would be mad if your boss expected you to do extra shit, while everyone else sat around getting paid the same.
Secondly, regardless of why, it still happens which means it is still a huge problem for the company.
>>81002066
What the fuck do you mean valuing labor? Are you using the word 'value' in the abstract, philosophical sense, or do you mean evaluating the labor to currency in the literal sense? If the latter, that is what we're talking about already. We are valuing it to be less than that of higher level skills. If the former, then you need to reassess your values. Not every chimp with a broom is worth that much, and the people that are aspire to be more. In fact, it's built into our sense of values that those that aspire to be more are valued more, therefore those that aspire to be less are not as valued.
>>81002457
It would at least get rid of the wage loop that Walmart benefits from by being able to hire the poorest workers knowing they will spend their salaries in the store. If people were making more money, sure many of them will do what you said and still shop there but spend their extra money on things that Walmart doesn't sell (which is bad how?) but many more people will be buying goods from all over and taking billions from walmarts rigged economic system and generate that money into smaller businesses.
>>81003687
>You would be mad if your boss expected you to do extra shit
t. crystal-ball reader
I actually agree with raising the minimum wage but liberals want too much. I think $9.50-$10.00 is a sweet spot adjusting to adjust with current inflation.
That's an absurd argument. Nobody ever said minimum wage would be decided by "productivity". It's based on the value of the dollar and the cost of living.
>>81003898
It has nothing to do with inflation - it's about deadweight loss.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65kfAswiHLk&feature=youtu.be
>>80980097
Why not make it a reasonable rage equivalent to what it was 40 years ago vs cost of living? Productivity has gone up, cost of living has gone up, wages are virtually stagnant.
>hurr, must be a liberal commie faggot
>>81003066
But whats the alternative?
Lower taxes for businesses...?
The ultra rich never reinvest their money into the system. Businesses and corporations never lower their prices once they've raised them, even if they are doing well.
Because they have to pay their Shareholders, and choosing to have lower profits drives their shareholders away.
So you wont lower the prices of jack shit that way either.
How exactly do you think you're going to lower the cost of rent, goods, and services anyway?
Only way to ensure a higher quality of living is raising Everybody to Middle Class. Even if that lowers some people to it. Gets ahead of the resulting increases.
It went to taxes and lawsuits
>>81003846
Again, you're full of shit. Any reasonable person would be mad. You're trying to deny it just to suit your argument. Also, you cutoff the part where I said 'get paid the same'. Marxist shill detected. We're done here. No argument to be had.
If you raise the minimum wage, then more low-level wage earners will be replaced with machines. Businesses will lay workers off in droves to maintain their overhead. Raising wages for unskilled labor is just a losing proposition all around.
>>80988569
>inflation only goes up in certain markets due to an increase in wages
HAHAHAHAHAHA
holy shit. you literally have no clue how inflation works
wages=/=total compensation
>>81004410
>it's reasonable to be upset that someone else is getting paid more even though it has absolutely nothing to do with you and your life, contract, and employment
t. "reasonable person"
>>81003526
Then there would be a brain drain in those sectors... and the government would step in to do what they're actually supposed to do... and would help fund training and incentives for people to go into those fields.
That doesnt mean being paid more for it.
>>81004088
No. Collectivism is theft. Wealth redistribution is a total failure. If you want to be rich, earn it.
>>81004594
>the government would step in to do what they're actually supposed to do
>help fund training and incentives for people to go into those fields
>what government is actually supposed to do
>>81004088
>But what's the alternative?
Stop the fed manipulating interest rates. Control immigration.
>The ultra rich never reinvest their money into the system.
Investing in the economy makes everyone better. If they were just spending it on themselves that would be worse.
>Businesses and corporations never lower their prices once they've raised them, even if they are doing well. Because they have to pay their Shareholders, and choosing to have lower profits drives their shareholders away.
Utterly untrue thanks to the free market. If companies don't keep their prices near as low as possible they won't be able to sell any goods or services because their competitors will undercut them.
Honestly, it should be a law that you have to understand basic economics to be allowed to live in a western capitalist country.
>How exactly do you think you're going to lower the cost of rent, goods, and services anyway?
Grow the economy. Raise demand for labour.
>Only way to ensure a higher quality of living is raising Everybody to Middle Class.
Let me know of a way to do that without crashing the economy. This is basically what socialists wanted to do. Guess what, it doesn't work.
>>80978175
Fuck the proletariat, they can earn a wage increase when they prove that their worth
>>80998026
Otherwise whats the incentive to WORK in the first place, if everybody you turn to isnt going to give you enough money to
You hear about some guy being paid a magical $60 an hour to do something you're only being paid $5 an hour to do. Because he has just the right friends or some shit... something you have no capacity to reproduce. Just a roll of the dice and thats it.
I dunno about starving to death, but I do know that when cornered this way an animal fights. And if you get alot of them together they can burn down the fucking state capital.
Minimum Wage is necessary for that reason. The problem is there's no magical line drawn saying "this much is too high"... its just a sliding scale of how much damage it does as a result.
>>81003738
>which is bad how?
It's bad because walmart isn't the only massive corporation in the world, contrary to your argument. The other places they will spend money will likely also feed directly back to large corporations rather than these small, local shops you're imagining.
>>81003738
>walmarts rigged economic system
They sell food. They need to hire people to run each location. Everyone needs food. I don't think it's really a rigged system. If the workers wanted to be paid more they shouldn't have taken the job. In fact, many walmart cashiers and workers are students who just want some extra cash, and I can guarantee you that extra cash isn't for groceries from walmart, but will likely mostly go to large chain restaurants that aren't any better but don't benefit walmart.
>>80978175
go ahead. The price of everything will go up. Employers who can will mechanize. Where they can't ,jobs will be cut. You will still be the loser on the bottom.
>>81004424
It depends on how much you raise it. If you raise it by a penny not very much is going to change at all, though deductively given basic economic assumptions *any* establishment or increase of a price floor that actually affects the market results in deadweight loss.
>>81005047
>Otherwise whats the incentive to WORK in the first place
Not starving to death is a good reason for most people.
>but I do know that when cornered this way an animal fights. And if you get alot of them together they can burn down the fucking state capital.
Black people are a different problem
>>81004575
Common shill tactic: twist the words around.
If you cared about the truth, you would think critically about it. Instead, you engineer yourself to be right in every regard. Unfortunately for you, nobody buys your bullshit here. We actually read shit.
You're missing the point of working harder and not being compensated equally.
It should be:
>Any reasonable person would be angry at having to work harder while not getting compensated fairly for their efforts.
>>80999585
But nobody gets raises anymore though, they need to Understand that okay?
You need to pat them on the back, invite them to a company picnic or something... and help them understand that in these (permanently dwindling) economic times Nobody Out There (except corrupt motherfuckers with friends)...
They dont get raises anymore.
People may upgrade their position in a company and get paid a new higher salary as a result.
But in my EXPERIENCE I never hear of anybody getting any raises anymore. Not for the last 10 years.
And if they do its token-pat-you-on-the-head kind of raises. Like 10 cents per hour, shit like that.
>>80978175
We need to LOWER minimum wage.
That'll piss off the niggers!
Infants should be making pennies an hour, just to breathe!
>>81005561
Thats the other direction towards Civil War.
>>81003630
Feelings and kindness are spooks. Keep the dick happy and the liver sad. That's what I like to say
What about eliminating the minimum wage while giving everyone basic income?
Increasing the minimum wage beyond how much it has deflated is bad but removing the minimum wage without anything to compensate is basically saying "We have to value human labor less then a machines to make humans competitive".
I thought the liberals don't want any wages!
What happened to you marxist utopia?
>>81004461
You're assuming that you're right about the increase in a minimum wage directly affecting it due to increases in wages throughout history. But you're ignoring the larger point about economic competitiveness in the modern post globalized world. It is much harder for inflation of goods and services to increase without the supply side increasing first. Since we now import most of our goods, inflation will not rise (much) as a result of higher wages here. That may be the silver lining of globalization so long as we use that to build a self sustaining economy. Sure, inflation will eventually adjust, but look at how much we have to gain until then.
>>81005761
It's about time someone said that!
>>81005366
t. inarticulate man
>You're missing the point of working harder and not being compensated equally
You can "word harder" and still suck dick. You can be a more productive worker and not have that reflected in your wages.
Nobody owes you anything in life they didn't agree to owe you - that's a brute fact. If you're going to get outraged that other people end up with more rather than being happy for them you're a degenerate.
>Any reasonable person would be angry at having to work harder while not getting compensated fairly for their efforts
>fairly
That word means nothing~
>>81005790
All you provided support for with that post is that you may very well be a degenerate. I don't know what possessed you to volunteer that.
We'll raise the minimum wage.
If you get rid of welfare!
What's the matter?
Dem programs aren't enough?
>>81004004
>t. lefty ignorant of economics
read up newfag, I'm not going to spoonfeed
http://www.friesian.com/sayslaw.htm
http://www.friesian.com/capit-1.htm
>>81005317
Well thats what im talking about. Because getting paid substandard wages actually wont even feed you. Not when the food is as expensive as it is.
Or you wont be able to live at any place that has a street address. Which may mean not being able to work either.
Get it?
People by and large wont put up with it unless they're ultra scared sheep who would also put up with being enslaved and having horrible things done to them.
Dunno bout the past, but it doesnt seem that people are putting up with that anymore.
> Raising the minimum wage.
> Polishing a turd.
>>81005812
See this is the ticket...
This is what would be EFFECTIVE...
Everybody gets all the money they need to survive and have a (shitty run down apartment). Like say $1000 a month.
Whether you're working or not, could even be a damn millionaire, doesnt matter.
THEN you have an incentive to work and you can get rid of the minimum wage.
Because there's a big difference between $1000 a month and $1500 a month. A real big difference since thats all extra money above your bills.
>>81005047
The incentive to work? You need to understand how markets work. Do some serious studying, because I wouldn't know where to begin to get you up to par.
The $60 an hour thing is a crafted special case scenario by Author: (You) to provide a false analogy hoping I'll accept it. We're talking about people working in the same company, being paid by the same finance department, working for the same people. Something that is not beyond anyone's control.
>>81005366
I said we're done here. You think fairness means nothing. That's why we're done here. You can't even understand simple concepts.
>>81005498
Then start working for yourself. More litigation is not the solution. Fight the litigation that provides barriers to entrance in whatever you want. You're slaving away helping the government build your own prison by increasing minimum wage.
Also, food and trinkets are "how to put underpaid employees temporarily at bay 101." It's been like that since the dawn of business.
I'll raise the minimum wage fo you massa!
>>81005882
I said we're done here. You can't even understand simple concepts such as 'fair' and how that related to a workforce's emotions.
>>80978175
Productivity goes up because of automation. We should pay workers more for working less?
> minimum wage goes up
> alcohol sales skyrocket
>>80986087
People also seem to forget about technology and outsourcing in these regards. Though it's true that women in the workforce are a problem, but just a fraction of an even bigger issue.
>>81006630
>'fair' and how that related to a workforce's emotions
>it's okay to be outraged whenever I think anything is unfair, and since I arbitrarily decide what is and isn't fair I'm justified in being outraged about anything so long as I deem it as having not been fair
t. illogical sentimentalist retard
B r i l l i a n t .
>>80978175
>Wages should be negotiated between employees and employers
>you can thank illegals for saturating the unskilled labor market for making that impossible
Libtard please leave
>productivity went up
Yeah, for people who have actual skills.
Productivity for shitimum wage work has stayed the same since 1960.
>>81006108
>Well thats what im talking about. Because getting paid substandard wages actually wont even feed you. Not when the food is as expensive as it is.
Yes, but you can't fix it by just forcing wages to be high for the reasons listed. ""substandard"" wages is better than no wages. The only result will be more people unemployed. It's much better just to raise welfare.
You can't just have everyone who has money to pay for people who feel they don't have enough of it. Ask any socialist economy how that works out for them.
>>81006001
>muh degeneracy
>stop liking things I don't like
>we need naional socialism to quell societal ills
Socialism is only a good choice for countries that don't need it. When the people can respect what society needs from them and have enough personal accountability to provide it and maintain a bank account to keep themselves happy, only then can you care for others. Charity is much better than welfare, because welfare can be subverted to attract voters. No different than immigration. I support a homogenous country with <10% income tax, closed borders and fuck shops rather than safe shoot up shops.
>>81007464
You can like whatever you like. I'm free to call what you like degenerate.
Also
>me mentioning socialism even once
Are you drunk, high, or both by any chance?
>>80980621
because the purpose of a society isn't to funnel money into corporations. We aren't a feudal society. Reward needs to be there for those that go the extra mile to attain them, this is one of the benchmarks of capitalism and is what has fueled western advancement during peacetime, but it should not be at the expense of people.
>>81007322
That's because more capital doesn't really help the least skilled workers be more productive, since the least-skilled workers don't really utilize much capital.
>>80983517
>shift manager
you do understand, that with no employees for you to manage as shift manager, you will also be unemployed?
>>81007126
>my obscure opinions are projected on everyone else
I'm not saying that's how I feel, so you can stop arguing what the best way to think is. I'm saying what IS happening.
>>80978175
That's a job for state government when unions aren't enough to address the problem.
A federal increase in the minimum wage has the potential to adversely affect industry in certain areas.
We don't need to push more manufacturing jobs in low income areas to China.
That doesn't help the working classes, it puts them out of a job.
You need to work out your worker policy on a case by case basis.
>>80998443
employees are a commodity you fucking retard.
>>81008473
We got another live one.
>redefining words
>baseless assertion
>no evidence
>no arguments
com·mod·i·ty [kəˈmädədē] (noun):
a raw material or primary agricultural product that can be bought and sold, such as copper or coffee.
synonyms: item, material, product, article, object;
More:
a useful or valuable thing, such as water or time.
>>80983517
you fucking idiot you're gonna be job hunting soon
>>81007844
>are you drunk
Working on it
>>81008114
