What happens to your "Consciousness" or "Sentience" when you die?
>>80557072
Consciousness is an electro-chemical reaction that ceases with death.
>>80557072
What was it like before you were born?
I assume it disappears without a trace. Like being completely unconscious or what it was like before you were even born.
>>80557072
>What happens to an "electric current" when the battery dies?
It just stops you dumbfuck
>>80557187
If it's that simple, is there a way that reaction can be sustained after death?
>>80557330
I didn't exist yet, but that a false equivalence since I'm in this universe now and nothing is destroyed but transformed, even chemical reactions
>>80557422
Is that "electric current" the soul?
>>80557600
Your consciousness ceases to exist when your brain shuts off. People report it feeling like they are going into a deep sleep.
>>80557187
False. We know how the brain works, roughly, and how messages are sent, but there is still no good consensus on where consciousness comes from.
>>80557072
No idea, but that doesn't mean I default to whatever our strict materialist worldview says. Our current empirical problem solving methods are great for physical problems, but totally unprepared for issues of consciousness and metaphysics.
I'd surmise that you have what amounts to a massive DMT trip, you wig fucking balls for 30 or 40 minutes, then fade to black.
>>80557600
>nothing is destroyed but transformed, even chemical reactions
So you think the consciousness of every fish and bee and bird that has ever existed lives on somewhere or somehow?
>That feel when life is just a little dream in your eternal rest
I'm just glad I'm spending it with you my friends.
>>80558006
Then after that, it's all further conjecture. I'm open to the idea you keep going though.
>>80557993
It comes from your frontal lobe for the most part. If I punch you in the head really hard to rattle your brain, you will lose consciousness. It's basic knowledge.
You wake up and depending on how well you lived your life you get to choose your next life. Those who are bad people get very limited choices for thexample next life.
>>80557993
yes there is.
It comes from the brain.
There is no magic god-juice that controls how the neurons fire
>>80557072
>80557072
What happens to it when you sleep?
>>80557759
wtf is this
>>80558012
Fish and bugs don't have a conscious, they're just biological machines that's only follow primal instinct.
We are different, if you have to ask why then you're dumb
>>80557072
It becomes reborn into some other form of life in either this universe or one of the other infinite amount of universes beyond this one.
This has always happened and will continue to happen. Forever.
>>80557072
You will be reborn in a different body. Rebirth always begins in a state of ignorance, you will have know knowledge of your past lives.
>>80558280
This is mystic gibberish. Of course they have consciousness. Just because they don't have our ability of high functioning reason doesn't mean they don't have consciousness. You're just making up rules to justify your mysticism.
>>80558136
Yes, thats the where, but still no "why" or "how". Consciousness is more than neurotransmitters.
>>80558223
Still missing the point. Yes, it is a function of the brain, but there is no consensus on HOW we get consciousness out of the brain. Look for yourself. Its speculative at best.
>>80557072
the quantum information coheres with the fabric of spacetime and moves in the plank field
look up quantum consciousness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WXTX0IUaOg
>>80558280
Source
>>80557600
So nothing is destroyed, but things are created?
>>80558280
>we're different beecause I say so and if you ask me to clarify you're an idiot
:L
>>80557187
This is the redpilled answer that Nazis would have supplied us with. Remember not to be degenerate, goys.
>>80557072
What happens to a car when you total it?
Strip out the valuable parts, scrap the rest.
>>80558388
You're right, a lot of it is electrical activity. The brain makes it to process higher order thinking.
doesn't mean it's fucking magic anon. That's caveman thinking. Just because we don;t know how it works yet.
>>80558634
were human BEINGS we have a SOUL
Another question is if we die do we restart our life with the same consciousness in a different universe?
>>80558388
consciousness is just a tool the brain uses to make sense of the world.
For complex decision making you need relations between objects, and so you need a sense of self.
What else could it be if not from the brain?
>>80557600
If you smear ink enough, it becomes unreadable. The process cannot be reversed, only delayed.
>>80558735
REAL HUMAN BEANS!
>>80558691
Don't misunderstand me, nowhere have I used the word "god" or "magic" or anything like that. I am saying that out strict materialist way of approaching things is ill prepared for something as ephemeral as consciousness.
>>80558378
>>80558496
>>80558529
Fish don't make art, fish don't look to better their species, fish don't use their surrounds for their advantage.
Fish don't go against their natural instincts for things like "honor and justice"
We are different, we wonder and have a drive to explore the universe.
Fish only eat and poop, they never stop and look up at the stars and wonder. They can't even recognize their reflection.
>>80557072
My ex's mom had a stroke that caused her to have surgery to implant a stint in her brain. She went through years of hell before starving to death through hospice.
She became a vegetable. When before she was really smart and held a job ar the pentagon.
After watching people in the old folks home. (Many 40-50yrolds) suffer brain injurys. And lose their mental capacity.
Ive concluded its all chemicals and neurological brain waves. Thats all.
Just like a computer. Destroy the harddrive and the memory is lost forever
>>80558988
yeah cause they're pretty stupid
we just have more evolved brains
>>80557072
Those things don't exist. Your mind is a collection of elictrical impulses between synapses that function in a way that evolution has molded them.
You have feelings because you have evolved to use them in decision making.
When you die, every cell in your body splits and goes elsewhere. i.e. to another animal, in the earth, up a tree, in somebody else's body.
You are a random collection of matter and when you die, that collection of matter becomes something else.
Upon death you see your life flash before your eyes, you relive every moment that you've ever been a part of. It may feel as if you truly are living in those moments. For all I know i could be dead and just reliving one of my many moments shitposting on /pol/.
>>80558770
>you need a sense of self
Citation needed dude. Even if that were the case, why not just stop there? Why are we sitting here conversing online instead of living simple but effective lives in the wild like chimps? Something is different.
>>80558916
Anon just stop and think about what your consciousness is and what it does.
It's higher order thinking where you plan, solve problems and navigate situations. It's a purely practical evolutionary tool where you control your body and mind with higher thinking. It's all in your head.
It doesn't disappear. It just dissolves, or "devolves" into a lesser form of consciousness.
>>80558735
Nope.
Your brain is an electrochemical meme comparator. You build a mental idea of how the world should work and then external stimulus pattern matches with all the memes, stereotypes and thinks and your brain assumes that that is what is happening.
Your entire consciousness is based on confirmation bias. That's why illusion, hypnosis and persuasion work.
>>80559148
more evolved brains because of a need for advanced decision making.
we used to live simple but efficient lives in the wild but then we discovered agriculture.
everything has gone downhill since then.
>>80559011
How do you know they still aren't the same people in their minds?
>>80557072
Nobody wants to talk about serial killers.
How do they fit in with your master God and religious theorys.
Just a bit hypocritical to have an all knowing, all loving God create Ted Bundy
>>80558988
All social mammals have a concept of fairness and object strongly when they think fairness is being violated.
Humans aren't special.
>>80559308
See
>>80559148
What is the advantage, evolutionarily, to be able to an existential crisis, or invent a deity, or discuss ethics? We could have easily lived in a pretty stable and safe environment without progressing to where we are now.
>>80559396
We had consciousness before agriculture
>>80559468
There was this kid in our school that took Special Ed classes and we called him Sped Bundy.
>>80558270
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDYbmowyMG8
>>80559079
>a collection of matter that is aware that it's just a collection of matter.
Pretty fucking spoopy
>a brink that knows it's a brick
>>80559400
What is your conscious, without the ability to use your brain? How can they be seperate and work in tandom.
If what you say if correct. Then our science behind brainwaves is wrong.
>>80559586
correct. We just lived simple lives in nature. Hunting and Gathering and whatnot.
>>80559148
Tools and farming, you're still a chimp like ape anon. We all are. No one person created this shit, it's been developed for 1 million years over tens of thousands of generations of technological advancement.
it's like sleeping forever
I believe that people go with Jesus, although unlike many Christians I believe in post mortem salvation. Basically you can call out for Jesus once you've passed on.
>>80559681
Don't forget that this matter that makes you up is just a mish mash of water, soil and air powered by energy from the sun.
>>80559734
Which is my point exactly. What evolutionary reason was there for us to progress at all, if consciousness was just a response to stimuli?
>>80559763
Which does nothing to explain consciousness to the degree we have it, or why it exists at all
>>80557993
When you say consiousness. YOU are suggesting that the individual is self aware of their own existence. Correct?
>>80559944
I don't understand the question
>>80559763
>ctrl +f "hard problem"
>No matches
/pol/ really is retarded isn't it?
>>80559944
For higher order thinking. Jesus christ anon we aren't even the only conscious animals on this planet. Any animal that can plan is conscious.
>>80558616
>This is the redpilled answer that Nazis would have supplied us with. Remember not to be degenerate, goys.
fuck off kike
>The distinguishing mark of Jewry within human races has to do on the one hand with the racial makeup of the Jews, who have been scattered for millennia, and on the other hand in their stubborn adherence to the crassest materialism, based on their so-called religious laws. The artificial Jewish racial mish-mash was held together by the force of materialistic religious laws that focused on life this side of the grave. It promised its adherents prosperity on earth, and lordship over all other peoples and nations.
>>80559517
existential crisises are a result of your evolutionary mind objecting to your current status.
Your social mammal needs are perceived as not being met either because they aren't being met or because your thinking brain is overriding a need into thinking its not being met.
>What am I doing with my life?
can mean
>I must be ready to survive winter
>I am social outcast, I must mate and protect children
>I am in danger of being dethroned as alpha male, I must assert my dominance -or- escape to a new pack/tribe/gang
Every existential problem is a real problem that wolves and gorillas have.
>>80560022
I haven't been into philosophers since college. I'm basing my knowledge of consciousness from psychology, neuroscience and biology.
>>80557072
Our spirit sleeps. Everything in the universe has an active and inactive cycle. Wisdom gained during life is made permanent within the soul. We rest for about 60-150 years until we are ready to occupy a physical form once again.
>>80559974
Well yes, thats definitely one major component
>>80560014
If consciousness is a necessary evolutionary byproduct that increased up to the point of allowing us to solve complex problems, spatial reasoning, etc, why are we here and not there? Surely our consciousness has advanced since the hunter gatherer days, or even before that, but why? The human population was stable and sustainable. No evolutionary advantage to further development.
>>80557600
>>80557809
Pull the plug on a grenade and put it in your mouth. The chemical reactions, I guarantee you, will stop. The reaction cannot be sustained without a working body.
>>80557072
it is broken apart and recycled like glass bottles
>>80560392
no it hasn't advanced at all. We were just as smart back then, but eventually we figured out how to farm, and this led to communities working together more closely, which led to specialization, and passing on more and more advanced technology to the next generations.
5000 years later and we're taking close up pictures of Jupiter.
>>80560392
>Surely our consciousness has advanced since the hunter gatherer days
There is no evidence that any major change in our brains has occurred in the last 50,000 years. We have the same wants/needs. The reason we even talk about death or how to find meaning in life is because we are not doing what we were built to do, which is spend our days hunting, raping, finding water and preparing for winter.
>>80560033
I know. And yet bonobos are clearly on a different level of consciousness than we are, or ravens, or other intelligent animals that are generally considered conscious. There is something fundamentally different about human consciousness.
>>80560120
baseless physicalism and pop psychology
We were all born out of seeming nothingness, a void we cannot recall.
If it happened once, why wouldn't it happen again?
Look, as someone who's died many, MANY times -- hell, my friends and I plan on dying this weekend -- it's nothing like you think.
>>80557600
>can't be destroyed
>even though it was created
Dumbfuck, if it wasn't around before it can be not around again.
>>80557187
Just to clarify my post, I'm a Christian. Consciousness IS an electro-chemical reaction that ceases with death, but there is something more to us: our soul. Our soul is inside of us, but it's not a physical thing that interacts at all with the world. Our soul doesn't give us consciousness, our soul simply transcends to Heaven at death and provides a housing for our true, metaphysical consciousness. That metaphysical consciousness is also impossible for us to access during life.
>>80560692
>There is something fundamentally different about human consciousness.
We are better at thinking, that's it. It's the difference between an adult and a toddler, it's really not some huge distinguishing difference. Most people would still be chasing animals with sticks in the forest were it not for the success of Europe.
If what you all are saying is true and Consciousness along with my personality is just a bunch of electrical currents, can it be collected, contained, and maintained artificially?
>>80557072
God, or your so called sentience, is shared equally by the entire universe. What you are referring to is the grid of Tetragrammatons that make up the entire fabric of reality. What we consider to be matter is merely the reflection of actual matter moving at super luminal speeds in an infinite grid of tetragrammatons. this network is the quantum probability wave. So it doesn't go anywhere, because you are fundamentally unborn and undying. You only appear alive and separate because of the relativity of your position as an observer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJB_o516Y8g
reddit.com/r/holofractal
>>80560612
Its incredible, isn't it?
>>80557072
It's gone, it's only a delusion of your mind anyway mate, your worm food once you die and nothing else
>>80560392
When the brain runs out of oxygen due to the heart not pumping blood. The brain dies. And so with it, the ability to form thoughts, actions, and memories.
You suggest that the consiousness leaves the body.
That would be nearly impossible to meaure. How can we study the entire human body. Yet have no evidence of this "consciousness".
>>80560919
Cute, I like it
>>80560666
THIS POST PLEASES KEK
>>80560873
You sound like you're a big fan of Walt Whitman. Im not sure what I believe but I think that something like this I'd be okay with. I don't buy the materialist argument at all but I can see this one.
>>80560666
I assume you're a racist or "race realist" as /pol/ likes to say, so you mention humans (assuming white humans) are supposed to hunt, rape, find water and prepare for winter, well what are black people built to do ?
>>80558388
No it isn't, it's just a phenomenon brought on by a variety of factors. That's why retards with literally half a brain are as selfaware as a treestump. There is no soul, just a bunch of random shit coming together to create what we call consciousness.
>>80560881
But it IS huge, functionally. That difference is responsible for us communicating right now. And this is just shit that has been going on for the past 30,000 years, max. What has the average sentient ape achieved in that same time frame?
>>80558006
Also one minute of dream can feel like years, so you will probaly experience this trip for something that will feel like eternity
>>80560900
Very far off from that, and it's your current existence wou;d still be contained within your head. It can't be moved, because it's a reflection of your physical brain. In the future we might be able to replicate it though, effectively cloning consciousness.
>>80561094
We won't know the truth until we die, if even at all, but this is the only way I've been able to reconcile my Christian beliefs with my (limited) understanding of science.
>>80560799
We were born from our parents cells, which carried genetic information along with chemical reactions that triggered electrical impulses.
>>80557072
total cessation
nothingness
mfw you never existed anyway
lol
>>80557072
>Reddit.com
Fuck off, back to your containment site.
>>80561133
Never said anything about a soul, or denied that its linked to the physical structure of the brain.
>>80561042
>How can we study the entire human body. Yet have no evidence of this "consciousness".
Thats been my point this whole time. Our current scientific methodology is not prepared for metaphysical issues like consciousness
>>80557187
>source: your ass
>>80561162
There are other factors as to why we have civilization compared to other intelligent animals. Birds will never need farms, therefore never need civilization. Dolphins don't need and can't build farms physcially, so they don't need and can't make civilization.
Chimps and bonobos are as effective at making society as a 5 year old would be.
>>80560970
yeah. It's a shame everything else is so messed up right now.
Hopefully everything returns to order soon enough.
>>80560190
Without philosophy you miss everything. It is obvious to modern men that our ability to think comes from our brain. The real question is why aren't we "robots"? Why do we experience being alive at all?
Interesting, I was having an internal monologue about a hour ago about sentience. Just to clarify, sentience is a less complex form of conscience right? As in, sentience can exist without conscience but not vice versa; sentience is a more basal form of conscience. Or am I totally confused?
>>80561318
>taking bait that hard
>>80557072
Even Christians don't think thought or consciousness go anywhere when you die. They think it's not necessary once your time of making decisions(life on earth) is over. So I guess everyone agrees.
>>80557072
Nobody knows, but we'll all find out in the end.
>>80561131
twerk and clap tha booty
>>80561411
We don't need farms either. We had a stable population as hunter gatherers. We don't "need" any of this (consciousness included) from a strictly evolutionary, physical perspective. Thats my point.
>>80557072
Your consciousness transfers to an alternate universe where you live longer. This happens indefinitely until the heat death of the Universe.
>>80561433
So you can plan and figure out complex items and concepts while learning from past experience. That's what it's for and that's what it does.
>>80561431
I think the pendulum will swing soon enough
>>80557809
t. dead people
>>80557993
Consciousness emerges out of high density neural matter.
>>80557072
What happens to light after you turn off a lightbulb? It ceases to be. Not a terribly difficult concept to grasp.
>>80561565
It never occurred to me that some people just never noticed this.
It's to solve problems of all kinds anon. It's a thinking and planning system with memory retrieval and a sense of self.
>>80558170
Yeah no.
I hope God would understand where that Nazi's and the KKK were coming from though.
May they be in Heaven now
>>80557072
this is what you see
>>80561292
How do you know this isn't nothingness?
>>80561654
People die and are brought back to life.
>>80561672
That is a meaningless statement. Through what mechanism?
>>80561588
Computers can do these things. He worded the concept horrendously.
>afterlife
This idea that God, the creator. Has no contact with its creations. Chooses to house a (kingdom?) For human souls to travel to when the die.
In this afterlife, people would be safe from the burdens of day to day survival. I assume that your age in this afterlife is the same age that you died? Because humans form their intelligence as they grow older.
All of this is mind numbing. And a bit of a copout. This idea of a great place to travel too after living on this planet is ubsurd.
>wishful thinking
>>80561696
But its totally unnecessary within a strict materialist framework.
Noticed what anon?
>>80561810
Computers don't have a complex interaction with emotions and a body using extremely complex biological machinery and power sources.
>>80560919
I forgot to add, that the Tetragrammaton as a 3d shape is a perfect isotropic vector matrix, absolutely perfect. It's the only shape of it's kind, and it's hinted at by the Flower of Life geometry which is carved into archeological sites around the globe. The Fu Dogs guard a tetragrammaton.
State of the art imaging done of electrons in orbit around a nuclei show that the electrons track in the shape of a tetragrammaton as well.
The ancients figured this out, the two triangles transposed through each other create a gravitational dipole. That's why the symbol appears all over the place, the positive and negative triangles.
Buckminster Fuller is the one who figured out that the flower of life was the tetragrammaton. Leonard susskind at stanford is doing the quantum mechanic work, im not sure where nassim is.
Regardless of whether there is or is not life after death, we became conscious out of nothing. If that can happen, who's to say we can't be conscious/alive again?
>>80561785
It simply does. It's an emergent property, that simply comes from a very large number of electrical impulses (neural potential differences). They actually simulated part of a rat brain on a computer server and it demonstrated this emergent property. The actual mechanism is unknown at this point but the origin and outcome is not.
>>80561042
Well, seconds after death, after the last breath has exited, corpses lose a small percentage of their weight. Every time.
Explain that, what leaves the body and has weight if the body is dead? Something that is phenomologically real definitely leaves the body after death, it just hasn't been identified.
You die and thats it, get over it fags, prepare for the eternal void of NOT.
>>80561991
Yeah can you translate that for retards please?
>>80561942
Literally a 100 seperate cases of humans losing to computer simulations can be found online. Ironically in a computer search engine called Google.
>complex algorithms
>>80561942
Right, they do these things mechanically rather than biologically. This is one of the most basic philosophically explored arguments stemming from Descartes Meditations. The argument hinges on the mind and the body being separate entitites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_(philosophy_of_mind)
>>80557072
"""your""" consciousness
as if you own it
Whatever capacity for awareness that at that moment was receiving information from your brain just stops receiving information from it, permanently
>>80557072
It runs on an eternal cycling after discovering the meaning of life, it's better to be alive.
>>80562137
That middle step is important. Also, if you read one of my other posts somewhere in this thread, there is still the question of why.
>>80561386
see
>>80560873
Aside from what we know from science, all any of us can do is talk out of our asses. It's called speculation.
>>80562175
Imagine is space was made out of cubes. Just vectors of the edges, infinite cubes foerever. Both left and right, but also inside of each other in octaves.
Imagine that the energy in the universe moves through this grid at super luminal speeds (faster than light), and also at absolute zero. The reflection of this is what we call matter.
The tetragrammaton is a shape that is a perfect isotropic vector matrix, it can contain a planck constant worth of mass easily. This is why empty space appears empty yet is so strong it can arrange celestial bodies.
Up until recently it was the joke physics of gnostics, hindus et cetera. Now that Buckminster Fuller, Leonard Susskind and Nassim have come around it's starting to be a viable quantum mechanical theory.
reddit.com/r/holofractal has more, including the math and links to very rigorous material to explain further.
The thing I am getting at, is that the illuminati knew this the whole time. Humanity used to have a tetragrammaton, a tetrahedral gravity device capable of parting the seas and arranging large stones.
The wake or vortex of gravity coming out of this thing was massive, and was written about extensively as it was fought over and used by various armies while it was transported in the Arc of Covenenant.
The masons are an order dedicated to housing the technology, which needs to be insulated with gold to hide the gravity affects. Once held in GIZA, it was stolen as the Jews escaped. That's why the pharoah went after them, but they used it to part the seas and escaped.
Now it is held in fort knox, shielded by gold. That's why the triangle is on our money.
The tetragrammaton as a 3d shape is roughly two traingles intersecting each other, creating polarity. That's why that dual inverted overlapping triangle symbolism is all over the mason's shit.
The actual shape is fuck all complicated, not a cube. Pics are all related.
The human brain is a very complex antennae. It is a receiver of consciousness. You are your consciousness, not your body. So, what happens to you depends on where you came from, and or how evolved you are consciously. Some reincarnate on this earth, others return to home planets, or perhaps ascend to a new dimension.
could reality just be someone dreaming?
>>80557072
>>80557187
You experience the deactivation of each individual sensory system that contributes to your consciousness one by one. As your conscious experience becomes more and more impaired, your pineal gland releases a tiny bit of DMT into your bloodstream and you trip your way to Heaven.
>>80562759
Its mans fear of the unknown. When man doesnt understand something. He creates grandiose stories to help cope.
Thats why they're 100s of different religions.
>>80557072
Just get educated with Youniverse
https://youtu.be/GnYCOFfdb7s
https://youtu.be/XXrR3ZdRbFM
https://youtu.be/8bSyVY2oBas
https://youtu.be/esqiXuoqTW0
https://youtu.be/qR36JKLB8i4
>>80557759
maybe
You are judged at the gates.
Your body dies, your body is a medium but the things going on inside it are everywhere just not organized the same way. The elements, states of matter, electricty, chemicals, you are the same stuff that is everywhere just organized to utilize and conduct this stuff which you are and all things are in a very neat way. Your consciousness does cease but do not fear the end of yourself.
Matter may not have consciousness but if you were able to observe it over vast timespans, you would see that it has intent, that is good enough for me. I would miss life, if it were possible to, I am sure. I am the same as you though, same stuff in a field of grass, same stuff in a nebula. The dead are in us, the not yet born are in us. It's really simple. We are just mediums, an arrangement, little stars, flickers of light.
>>80563190
"Like a dog"
T. Josef K
>>80557422
its more than electricity that gives you the power to think
>>80559680
Good gosh. Anime's been degenerate for quite some time now.
>>80563055
No, that's why there's science. When man doesn't understand something, he seeks to learn. We cannot learn unless we speculate and ask questions. If man had never asked, "How do we feed ourselves without picking berries everyday?" we would have never invented agriculture. If everyone believed as you do, we'd still be hunter-gatherers.
And Death is not real, even in the Relative sense--it is but Birth to a new life--and You shall go on, and on, and on, to higher and still higher planes of life, for aeons upon aeons of time. The Universe is your home, and you shall explore its farthest recesses before the end of Time. You are dwelling in the Infinite Mind of THE ALL, and your possibilities and opportunities are infinite, both in time and space. And at the end of the Grand Cycle of Aeons, when THE ALL shall draw back into itself all of its creations--you will go gladly for you will then be able to know the Whole Truth of being At One with THE ALL. Such is the report of the Illumined--those who have advanced well along The Path.
You die and meet St. Peter at the gates, and he tells you if your allowed into heaven or are banished to hell
>>80562888
How does the flower of life relate? Looks like you have it in your picture.
>>80557072
It remains an illusion.
>>80559396
No, we discovered beer. And that started civilization. Video on Vimeo called How Beer Saved the World. Watch it.
>>80561750
anyone who has been brain dead cannot be revived
To all the people who just think its chemical reactions in the brain, you are missing a piece. Its far to hard to explain in a short post though so read the wiki on it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness
>>80557072
Ann Hiro knows.
>>80557187
>what is Conservation of Energy
>>80564081
>what is Heat Death
Let me explain in words that won't make the fedoras flip.
Life is response to stimuli. Experience thing --> react. That's all life is. When you start experiencing too much stimuli to react in a productive manor you develop tools to abstract stimuli so that you can continue you reacting in ways that allow you to continue reacting. That is all consciousness is, a tool to help you continue the cycle of life because there are too many variables to operate like a machine.
That being said, when you die you will see St. Peter or wait in purgatory.
>>80563876
But do you know why?
>>80557072
I find it hard to believe some sort of reincarnation doesnt exist
A series of events lead to me existing now, given an eternity why would it never occur again?
>>80564244
Jeez. Liberals are always wrong, you guys are some of the smartest people I've ever met.
>>80563694
Well bucky figured out that the flower of life is actually an orthographic projection of the tetragrammaton, like a technical drawing of it from a very specific angle. I dunno if you have ever done drafting on paper or cad, but that's the only way I can explain it.
This thing shows up everywhere, it's engraved on sites where we can't figure out where the stones came from/how they were cut and stacked. It's a huge piece of hinduism, daoism, buddhism, zen buddhism, gnosticism, kabballistic et cetera.
The symbol is found at sites that predate the Younger Dryas impactor, meaning before our own historians say we had architecture and technology.
The flower of life appears everywhere, and the 'sacred geometry' fags go nuts over it but the higher order quantum mechanics go right over their head. It's the secret to quantum gravity, and it's all over our history as if we used to know this.
The thing is that if all of our reality is a metaphysical reflection of the universe being everywhere and nowhere simultaneously, moving in this grid, the grid must come from somewhere.
I'm carrying on, but long story short the tetragrammaton resolves both genesis and the big bang, as if they were two sides of the same coin. It is a very intense subject.
I think the guy at Coral Castle knew about it.
You respawn as an extra man.
There's like a 99% chance life's a simulation anyway. We just got fucking stuck in Sim City instead of something cool, like Metroid, or Doom.
>>80564294
lose of oxygen to the brain
>>80564398
Extraordinary claims require...
Nevermind. I'll just call bullshit.
>>80557187
if thats true why dont you just kill yourself and save a lot of time and resources
Two similar sorts of views
As existing in an infinite mind -
This Principle embodies the truth that "All is Mind." It explains that THE ALL (which is the Substantial Reality underlying all the outward manifestations and appearances which we know under the terms of "The Material Universe"; the "Phenomena of Life"; "Matter"; "Energy"; and, in short, all that is apparent to our material senses) is SPIRIT which in itself is UNKNOWABLE and UNDEFINABLE, but which may be considered and thought of as AN UNIVERSAL, INFINITE, LIVING MIND. It also explains that all the phenomenal world or universe is simply a Mental Creation of THE ALL, subject to the Laws of Created Things, and that the universe, as a whole, and in its parts or units, has its existence in the Mind of THE ALL, in which Mind we "live and move and have our being." This Principle, by establishing the Mental Nature of the Universe, easily explains all of the varied mental and psychic phenomena that occupy such a large portion of the public attention, and which, without such explanation, are non-understandable and defy scientific treatment.
(1/2)
>>80564303
Does a flower that has withered and died come back to life?
>>80564753
As existing in computer simulation
When particles are left unobserved, physics stop working for them and they fall into a superposition - they basically "bug" and are not really rendered. The same applies for modern videogames where everything outside your PoV is not rendered. The reason for that is that it's an insanely efficient way to preserve processing power.
The limit of the speed of light should not exist. However, it does. Why is there a limit for the maximum achievable speed in this universe?
Because the universe has a "refresh rate", which is the time that the object (that is supposed to be) without a speed limit travels from the smallest point of space to the following one next to it.
In an actual reality, there would be no slow-down for it and it should be instantaneous, since the dimensions when travelling at that speed collapse into a single point and you're literally traversing the whole universe instantly. Instead, it "lags".
It lags because in order to accurately simulate 10 kilometers of reality, you'd need a simulating machine that is at least as big for the processing power required.
UNLESS, of course, you reduce the other part of the equation, which is speed of the simulation - unless you slow it down. One second of "realtime" time can be equal to half a second simulation time, which means that the processing power needed to run that slowed-down simulation just dropped by a half. Slow it down enough compared to reality, and you might as well simulate a planet-wide reality on your smartphone.
Introducing an incredibly short "lag" between the refreshes of a software can reduce its CPU usage by a million times. In a program that cycles through a loop and checks conditions (if a button is pressed, for an example), a forced 0.01 seconds of "lag" can be the difference of 80% and 0.08% CPU usage.
Basically, our universe has that hardcoded in it, and the limit of the maximum speed is the full proof that it exists.
>>80564463
>We just got fucking stuck in Sim City
It's because our faggot forerunners are simulating their/our universe on a quantum computer.
[citation needed]: the thread
This is seriously the faggiest thing to argue about. Believe what you believe and shut up
>>80564606
No.
The illusion of consciousness comes from an organizational matrix within your brain. Once that organization is disrupted, its hard to reorganize it. If it is disrupted enough, it can't.
Thats why you can't.
Its like a computer, but instead of magnetically charged mollecules you have chemical and electrical signals.
Braindeath is the disruption of the chemical structure of the brain to the point where it can no longer simulate consciousness.
>>80564624
I get it. I actually do, it sounds crazy. So did everything else though ... and it turned out to be true.
Once I saw Leonard Susskind's work at Stanford and Nassim's recent paper it's obviously a real contender for quantum mechanics. The best part is that it proves the eastern religions right, and I think that's what bothers the uniformitarians that are brainwashed by zionist materialism.
>>80564763
Maybe given an eternity another universe may exist that gives birth to the same flower
I dunno dude but I think it would be naive to assume their are intuitive answers to such existential questions
>>80562888
Was this your layman explanation? Am I just stupid?
Of course there is a huge difference between the four ideas, one is a concrete quantum mechanical framework that has been painstakingly advanced over decades.
The second is that the flower of life is an orthographic projection of the tetragrammaton, as well as the opening act to inducing it/creating it.
The third is that humanity once had a technology based on tetragrammaton knowledge, and we used it to part the seas and arrange large stones. We kept it at giza until it was stolen.
The fourth is that this tetrahedral gravity device sill exists, was cared for by masons and is kept at fort knox.
>>80565000
Or replace "illusion of" with "capacity for"
>>80565227
Here, let this guy explain it or forget it and move on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJB_o516Y8g
>>80565000
But here is the fun part.
The continuity of consciousness is what creates your individual self.
If you manage to lead a brain to braindeath and somehow bring it back (it has been done with dogs and mice), theoretically it would think it was you, but not actually be you.
It would be a mental clone of you.
Whenever your consciousness is interrupted, you cease to exist. When it is "rebooted" a new you is created, that believes to be the old you.
Whenever you sleep your consciousness is "discontinued".
Dreams are your brain actually rebooting consciousness.
When you go to sleep, you'll never wake up.
Your "self" is born each day a while before you wake up. All you have is heritage from your past selves. All you do and learn will be inherited by your future selves.
This is one of the most closely guarded secrets in neuroscience, because of its implications.
>>80565011
you should really drop the whole conspiracy theory angle mate.
Whether or not you genuinely believe it to be true it makes the whole theory way harder to swallow and raises tinfoil red flags
If the science and evidence is good enough allow the theory to stand by itself
>>80563052
That's a myth
>>80558988
You don't know shit about fish.
All predators have intelligence, enough intelligence to cooperate and hunt in packs, and lay traps. Even bugs.
You're a fucking idiot.
I've studied existence extensively and came up with the same conclusion as pic related.
>>80559308
Explain fags, queerbait.
>>80566105
Thats because you were studying the meaning of existence instead of its nature.
The subjects are so different that one is neuroscience and the other is philosophy.
>>80565640
Interesting.
I think that time and the universe are cyclical, like most things in nature. So after you die, you are immediately reborn to live the exact same life. Hope you guys are enjoying the shitshow because you're here forever.
But that's just like my opinion man.
>>80566328
Screencap it so you can look it up. I've been shut down in the past.
>>80557072
The thing that is "you" is just a pattern, a set of data. "You" are not the same "you" from one moment to the next, but a different similar one, a new set of data.
A similar data set will likely assemble itself from the noise of causality in some distant future, and in flights of fancy imagine past lives for itself eerily close to the one you're living now.
>>80565640
You aren't even the same person from one instant to the next.
I envy christians sometimes man, they believe 100 percent that after they die they'll be reunited with their friends and family while I'm here having an existantial crisis
>>80557072
How about this for a red
Pill. We are all technically soil of the planet earth.
I can't get past the spam filter for you, I don't know why. I have links to research papers and the ELI5 gif of how it works.>>80565650
>>80565650
>>80566467
Yes you are. The continuity is what maintains the illusion of conscience.
You are forgetting that your perception plays a role in the nature of conscience, much like it plays a role in colors.
Colors don't exist. What does are wavelenghts. Colors are our perceptions of wavelenghts. But they are completely different things. The data set is the wavelenght. Conscience is the color.
>>80566274
It doesn't matter.
>>80566664
>>80565650
>>80565650
>>80565650
I'm sorry I'm coming up on shroom tea. Here is a single image with stuff for smaht people
"Addendum to Quantum Gravity - showing Nassim's predicted proton charge radius being verified with proton accelerator"
http://resonance.is/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Addendum-to-Quantum-Gravity-and-the-Holographic-Mass.pdf
I know he looks like a mad scientist but his paper won an award. Everyone has been calling this shit crazy for decades and he finally figured it out staring at the ceiling of his van.
"Scale Unification: A universal scaling law for organized matter"
http://hiup.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/scalinglaw_paper.pdf
"The Origin Of Spin: A Consideration Of Torque And Coriolis Forces in Einstein’s Field Equations And Grand Unification Theory"
http://hiup.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/torque_paper.pdf
Here is a GIF to help you visualize how this shape can collapse on itself, draw a new octave of vectors, and then collapse again. It repeats itself infinitely, with no hickups.
>>80565640
where can I read more into this?
>>80557072
Freed from your body and then I don't know. Maybe reincarnation or you cruise around the universe or go back to the fifth dimensional bath house and have weird sex and drugs in seventeen time periods while you tell your friends about your last human incarnation
>>80566591
You sound like someone who would really benefit from some Kierkegaard
>>80566409
Do you have any links or books to recommend?
>>80566723
Hinduism 101
>>80566696
Indeed it doesn't. But it doesn't mean that it can't be understood in its meaninglessness.
The flower is an illusion, yet its scent is magnificent.
>>80566467
>"You" are not the same "you" from one moment to the next
That's why I keep thinking our consciousness may be an "illusion." It doesn't necessarily exist, but it perceives itself as existing. I'm not a scientist so I don't know what the fuck I'm even talking about, but it sort of makes sense to me. It's an illusion that illudes itself.
>>80566723
Either do all the research again yourself, find someone who did, or dig the internet like a madman. I did the first two.
>>80566811
>its scent
also an illusion
>>80566709
g f y c a t
ShinySereneGrayreefshark
>>80566775
No. I spent years researching and had to pretend i never did.
>>80566775
>>80566723
>>80566802
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya
>>80557072
Dream chemicals. An eternity (relative) in subconscious dream space.
Hope you were a good boy and have good boy dreams... wouldn't want you to dream forever a nightmarish prison...
That's none of my business tho
>>80566871
Indeed. You can keep going down that nihilistic hole, or you can be a man and ascribe meaning to things according to your individual sovereignity.
The answer for most of /pol/ is that they'll spend eternity burning in hell.
>>80560919
so what youre saying is that QPUs are real
>>80567117
Most already are, but not for eternity.
>>80557072
I don't know.
>>80567117
>implying that I'm not living it already
>>80566467
How do you recognize your friend? Their name? Their physical features? Their accent? What if all of these were erased and hypothetically you can only interpret their ideas through telepathy, how would you recognize your friend from all the thoughts that come to you in a void?
How could you recognize someone you know posting on this board without them giving away obvious hints? The vocabulary they use? The similarities of how they conceive?
Your memory plays a role in your consciousness, as it is the accumulation of all of these crucial instances of data. But also your thought processes.
>>80566691
Conscience is rationalization that arises because of your psyche's survival instinct. It's the ego, it's a convenient abstraction, it's "me."
"Me" is a placeholder, It's the assumed subject in every sentence of your internal dialog, it's the thing that you make sure is treated fairly in interactions with other members of the tribe. It's the thing you make look cool, it's the thing that you dress in fine clothing to impress others, It's the thing you want to keep happy, well watered, and safe, It is the most precious thing to you, that you value above everything else... But it's just an illusion created to facilitate your survival.
Death doesn't exist. Nothing ever ends.
Time is a flat circle. We're all going to do this again, and again, and again, and again.
>>80567011
shoulda been more specific. just the part about the consciousness being "rebooted" each time you wake up. how do you know that?
>>80566664
when I was young I used to kill imaginary space beings. I recognize some of these shapes from my adventures
>>80567384
Interesting post. It's the same reason I believe computers are the greatest thing to ever be invented. They function as we do; a limited amount of "RAM," a limited amount of "hard-drive" space, and of course, processing.
>>80565640
What exactly are the implications? I dont get why this is a hidden secret.
>>80567398
Yes, that is its evolutionary origin. But not its nature. Its nature is a perception, and as all perceptions, an illusion.
But what keeps the cohesion of the illusion?
>>80566732
What in particular do you recommend?
>>80557072
It disappears, you retard. People try to come up with other answers because the obvious one hurts their feelings or is scary or something.
Not this nigger tier troll OP again...
>>80565640
how do you "know" conscioussness is "you"?
aren't "you" just your brain, your memories and wirings and organizations of the brain? Your consciousness is just the product of those organizations, it just "goes away" at night and comes BACK right? it's not gone forever
>>80567681
If you told every blue pilled person in the planet today that when they go to bed today they won't wake up tomorrow, how much do you think the economy is going to grow overnight?
>>80567681
Your identity is a cultural institution or social convention, like the lines of longitude. You can't lace your boots with them because they are not phenomenologically real.
In the english language we presuppose that there are nouns and verbs et cetera. You can't talk about the fact that this violates the self inclusion logical fallacy because you cannot define the fallacy using a phonetic language.
Thus vow of silence, and buddha's paradox.
>>80558988
>>80558988
So do niggers have consciousness?
>>80567618
Dude I couldn't get that gif cat link to work, it hit the spam filter a dozen times.
That's the whole tetragrammaton gravity thing in one animation.
>>80566942
>>80566942
>>80565640
This is more of a proof that "you" doesn't exist in the first place, than anything else.
>>80567384
Through patterns, obvs. But if someone came up to you with identical mannerisms, identical style, identical haircut whatever, you'd exclaim "hey, man, what are you doing here!" and might never know the difference until he made clear he didn't know you and was only going to ask for change for the vending machine.
We are data integrators. That our existence is inherently theroretically fungible (though definitely not practically so) doesn't take away from the overall effect. Though >>80566691 's example was bad, because it attempts to bring the metaphysical properties of something into the physical world, by the same token we are not totally creatures of the physical world. We need irrationality, we need "color", it pervades our senses and intuitions. Without it we die as both individuals and civilizations. You have to keep the physical and metaphysical worlds separate.
We can't ignore the wavelengths, examination of which makes clear that color is subjective, but we can't let study of wavelengths destroy our appreciation of color either.
>>80567866
They would laugh at you because you sound like a fucking retard lol
>>80565000
>>80565640
>>80566409
interesting read, huebro. The wall just got 10 feet lower.
>>80567777
honestly, his writing itself is dense and kind of strange at times, and if you're not familiar with/comfortable with the style of philosophical writing its a bit difficult. Not as bad as Kant or Heidegger or something, but still not super palatable.
I'd recommend a good lecture on him to start you off, you can find many on youtube. He had a perspective on religious faith and its value that would be very well suited to your needs right now.
>>80567534
How does the cycle begin? You would get infinite cycles.
>>80567914
Yes. Chimps too.
Just because they are less smart and more prone to violence, doesn't mean they are rocks.
Abbos are a controversy tho.
Our brain is made up of a specific combination of matter. Once we die it would take billions or trillions of years for that matter to form in that specific combination again in some other universe
So in other words were gonna be living in the same life over and over again or maybe some other life
It ends. That follows from the definition of death. If either process doesn't end, it's not death.
>>80567866
Ok now I understand a little better. Thanks for responding.
>>80567995
Does your body exist? Thats proof enough that you exist. We aren't discussing the existence of individuals here.
The conscience is a subjective perception of the organizational matrix in the brain processing input and crossing it with stored information. As such, it is a subjective illusion that exists subjectivelly.
Youre thinking of qualia.
>>80567702
Nothing that can't also be said to maintain the illusion between sleep cycles.
>>80568051
I'll be sure to. Thanks anon.
>>80567619
Computation is a substitution of our own repetitive processes so we can invest more time into creativity and leisure.
>>80568026
Maybe. But some % of them would take me on my word and go borrow some money for coke and hookers. Over 13% in the US alone, i'd wager.
>>80568027
I'm not actually a hue. And i have no interest in living in america.
>>80560666
PRAISE KEK
>>80565640
>>If you manage to lead a brain to braindeath and somehow bring it back (it has been done with dogs and mice),
I thought you were lying. You were not.
http://www.jccjournal.org/article/0883-9441%2895%2990017-9/references
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20655951
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1333798
UNRELATED
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/sep/18/science/la-sci-sn-brain-activity-death-20130918
"The most famous example of the phenomena turned into a best-selling book, “Proof of Heaven,” in which a physician recounted the vivid imagery he experienced during a coma. Neurologists question whether the cortex was fully shut down and suggest these memory functions reflected activity in the brain, not a supernatural phenomenon."
Anyone who meditates on heroic doses of psychedelics could have told him this, but no scientist believes what these people learn.
>>80568145
Others did the same for me, and it is a great pleasure to share my life's work.
>>80568284
I think there are problems with either language or perception that stop us from being able to talk about this sort of thing meaningfully. I almost wish subjective experience didn't exist so we could at least have our shit figured out instead of having to play word games all the time.
>>80567866
That's the dumbest shit I've ever heard.
It's pretty childish to think this is reasonable-- "hey, the person I'll be tomorrow isn't me, so fuck him, I'm going to go drink a bunch of paint thinner! Who cares if 'I' get brain damage, that person isn't me! WOO FREEDOM!"
You don't actually need perfect cohesion of identity to want to see your goals come to fruition.
>>80557993
Conciousness is in the thalamus
>>80568303
Thats the tricky part. Look up brain scans during deep sleep, and the technical information on what it means. There is disinformation.
>>80568755
Care to be more specific?
>>80558280
Fish are concious.
It no longer exists. Hard to comprehend because you have had it since birth.
>>80568601
There is no language barrier. It is either your cognitive functions that are limiting your understanding of my words, or my grasp of english.
>>80568955
Hey Brazilbro. You seem rather knowledgeable in this matter. Is there an afterlife?
>>80568755
Be more specific. I'm only used to looking at MIT scans of people on Acid and comparing them to scans of people meditating.
>>80568614
You missed the part about everything you have and know being a heritage from your past selves, and everything you do being an inheritance you leave to your future selves.
But if you are an absolute selfish nihilistic cunt, i guess it would be that way. Thats why i had to sign a non-disclosure agreement.
>>80568955
I mean as far as subjective/objective things. I don't think there's actually a difference, but something in our brain makes us think there is.
>>80568005
>But if someone came up to you with identical mannerisms, identical style, identical haircut whatever, you'd exclaim "hey, man, what are you doing here!" and might never know the difference until he made clear he didn't know you and was only going to ask for change for the vending machine.
On the flip side, if someone is physically identical, you would easily be able to know that it is not your friend upon communication, this means the identity of someone is not its physicality, that is merely superficial. Physicality is convenient to discriminate people, like when that guy with long hair turns around when you thought he was your sister. The core identity comes from as you said, thought patterns, which are electro-chemical impulses.
>>80568075
There is no "you" or "me", these are illusions similar to computers identifying themselves over a network, they are just a complex interactions of matter. "You" aren't going to live again, there is going to be more systems of interaction in brains as they are reproduced.
>>80568601
There is language, the problem is that if someone figures out how to use it you call them crazy, or autistic.
Fuck off.
>>80568380
I don't think so considering they've gone to sleep before. There's a lot more continuity that , do you honestly believe your self dies every time you go to sleep? I think you do based on your phrasing and I think it's safe to say you're missing something
>>80557072
It ceases to exist. Something we can't exactly fathom properly. It's a difficult concept to completely understand.
Unless you wanna go and say that you're consciousness goes to the magical happy sky kingdom.
>>80558341
so where were you last time leaf
>>80558988
You're not describing conciousness, which occurs in the thalamus. You're describing higher brain functions, which are created by the cerebral cortex.
Fish have a thalamus.
Fish do not have a cerebral cortex.
>>80568865
Essentially the parts of the brain responsible for processing data cease to process data during deep sleep. The brain just keeps the vital functions and whatnot working and shoots signals on/off across the brain to check for the brain health and to store memories. But there is no continuous processing of data, therefore, nothing to be perceived and nothing to be conscious of.
>>80559360
>consciousness was just a meme the whole time
>>80569057
No. When you die, you cease to be forever.
You die for the last time, in a way.
>>80569338
fuck
>>80569160
I agree. Death is weird because we try so hard to not die, but then when we die, nothing even matters (to us, but our death matters to the living that love us).
What's the point of existing if it's all going to end and you'll be forgotten as every person around you will die too. All the memories you created, your achievments, all doomed to oblivion. I am sad
>>80569073
If you can perceive something subjectivelly, you can create a word for it objectivelly. We have been doing it for centuries. Thats just a way for relativists to shut down conversation. Yes, some of the message will be lost in translation, but we are very skilled in filling in the gaps.
>>80557072
You wake up and realize you are jesus playing a virtual reality game in the year 30987. You realize you are immortal, and you pick another game to play, because the last one was fucking boring as shit.
>>80569449
If you're worried about the point of existing, you're either bored or depressed. "What's the meaning of life" isn't a real thought, it's an error message.
>>80568601
>>80568955
>>80569126
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nSMi0whFEA
>>80569149
Maybe. I never claimed to know the truth of reality in its entirety.
Newton was missing something.
>>80569489
No, I'm saying that our perception is probably an objective thing, it's just hard to think about because we're inside of it.
>>80566846
You are the consciousness, not the brain and it's incorrect way of viewing reality. The relationship between your brain and you is like between your eyes and the lens of your sunglasses. The brain is just a way for you to see the world, and obviously a wrong way (though the right way for the brain to do it to reproduce the physical body)
>>80557072
If it persists, no problem- death is an illusion.
If it persists not, no problem- it's unavoidable and you won't be able to witness your own nonexistence.
>>80569449
Because there is so much matter in the universe and only a teeny tiny amount ever becomes alive. Enjoy your life and try to understand and enjoy the wonders of the universe while you can. If you want to live part your death in memory, contribute a lot to the world and maybe you will be remembered for a while, but that doesn't really matter. Enjoy this short, rare time.
>>80560873
>but it's not a physical thing that interacts at all with the world.
Then how does it interact with your body in such a way as to control it?
>>80569387
You can come to terms with it. Accept the harsh red pill of reality.
Look up zen buddhism. It was essentially old guys living in caves telling you to disregard females and the government in order to swallow the red pill.
http://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/science/art-maintaining-core-frequency-life/
found this
>>80569552
Asking "why" is nonsensical when there is no reason. Everyone finds some kind of meaning or reason of their own, such as family, but there is no objective meaning/reason, life just is.
>>80569421
Your ancestors which did not never made it to the modern gene pool. Simple explanation.
The reactions to stimuli that promote and preserve existence are carried on. It would be anti thetical to the concept of existence for the termination of it.
>>80569692
past* your death
>>80569595
It isn't. Like i said up there, we perceive colors. But they don't exist objectively. Its just our perception of one of the characteristics of a given photon. Same with consciousness. Its just our subjective perception of an objective phenomena, and as such, a subjective illusion.
A very usefull one however, much like colors.
>>80565640
>>80569267
Ok. Let's say you live in a computer, and your mental state can be shut off and restored by the system at will. Let's say the system shuts you off and stores you on disk for 100 million years. The system is booted back up, and your paused persona suddenly resumes. You have no perception of any gaps, but you
were for all purposes dead for all that time. How is this any different?
>>80569744
It doesn't. Our soul is not physical, but metaphysical. Our PHYSICAL consciousnesses is a PHYSICAL phenomenon. When it ceases to exist, our METAPHYSICAL consciousness takes over. There exists the physical plane and the metaphysical plane (AKA the Kingdom of Heaven). They are completely independent of each other.
Our physical body and consciousness is LINKED with but not the same as our metaphysical consciousness.
I think the only thing that could keep me sane is ignorant repetition of my life, as in when I die I simply live it again and again and again without knowing. I could be on the one-billionth repetition of my life for all I know. Even if I was in heaven, the concept of eternity horrifies me. Though I suppose if there was a god he/she/it would be able to keep me entertained and reasonably sane forever, seeing as how he is all powerful and all knowing.
>>80557600
>I didn't exist yet, but that a false equivalence since I'm in this universe now and nothing is destroyed but transformed, even chemical reactions
Matter and energy can't be destroyed, but it can be altered.
>>80569916
I guess I just have no reason to believe subjective phenomena exist separate from objective phenomena. They're hard to pin down, and I don't trust my own experience enough to take that as evidence of their existence.
>>80569972
How do you know this? Can you prove it?
>>80569692
There is no "luck" because the matter is not conscious of its non-sentience. The only matter that ever conceives of sentience is that matter which is sentient. Sentience isn't lucky, it is certain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness
Well?
>>80569938
Your 100 million year old self stopped existing when you shut it off.
When you rebooted the computer, it created a new self that for all intents and purposes believes to be the old one, but isn't.
Much like if i created an exact copy of you. It would believe to be you, it would have the same thoughts as you, but it would not share your consciousness. It would have its own, that started separately from yours upon its creation. Yours would go on uninpeded, and you would probably part ways from there. The point is that you destroy one consciousness in the present and create a new one when the system is rebooted in the future. You don't perceive the process, but once you go to bed, you won't wake up the next day. It will be a new being that believes to be you.
What if we are going backwards in time so when you die you are repeating something going forward that catch up both ends in a giat loop of life cycle
>>80559324
You become an amoeba level being for the next quadrillion millenia, experiancing a minimal stimulation while you eat your neighbors and are routinely devoured by others, until you get lucky and make your way into the sperm of a clown fish. You continue this process for eternity, becoming all sorts of stupid creatures. The odds of ever being human again are almost nonexistant, so enjoy it while it lasts.
>>80569839
Meaning is what you are objectively programmed to create in a given contextual environment, it is a very objective process, we just can't predict these complex processes.
>>80570090
Its quite simple, really. If all life ended, would gravity continue to exist? Yes.
Would photons remain having wavelenght? Yes.
Would color continue to exist? No. Because it never did, it was an illusion we created to interpret reality.
Pass the meat from which I stink of
Passed out serving on the side
From the meat I'm suffocating
Cutting from the bone to hide
>>80570053
This is possible we repeat our lives over and over until we fit Gods demand if its that way ill be repeating again because i sin a fuck load already
>>80570090
Also, its not sepparate. Each subjective phenomena is your brain's way to interpret objective phenomena. Each thought you have has an objective analog in your brain. The thought itself is digital, but it has an analog basis.
>>80570091
Of course he can't. It's all speculation.
>>80570091
No, I can't prove it. It's speculation, and it makes sense in relation to how I view the world, so I believe it. And I will continue believing it until science (or theology) provides a more concrete understanding. Find fault in that.
Damn I hate neuroscientists (the thalmus fags)
Hey faggots,
Posts or postings are defines as bits of information that appear on 4chan. They originate in from a white box at the top of the page and a button that says Post. If you eliminate the white box posting ceases to exist.
We have solved the mystery of posting, that's all there is to it
Does anyone else ever freak themselves out trying to comprehend their own non-existence after death? Comprehending a state of non-being seems rather difficult for me.
>>80570228
You still won't be able to answer how that process began.
>>80570440
You are being very quick to dismiss someone that is answering so many questions without providing traceable evidence. Thanks for the consideration.
>>80570341
>Would color continue to exist? No. Because it never did, it was an illusion we created to interpret reality.
On one hand:
>Of course color existed, I saw it!
On the other:
>But there isn't any proof that I did.
I don't like thinking about this sort of thing, there's no possible resolution so it's just frustrating.
>>80570258
What if next time we're better than human?
>>80570589
Oh, that wasn't directed to me. Very sorry.
>>80570492
>They originate in from a white box at the top of the page
>Current year
>Vanilla 4chan
>>80570341
But color is an objective electro-chemical process. If you removed the objective process it would cease to exist, obviously. Like if you removed photons they would cease to exist.
>>80570541
A few times, it gives me a bad feeling.
>I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.
t. Mark Twain
>>80570593
Your perception of things don't prove them. Our collective perception of things prove them. Hallucinations can't prove anything because they aren't shared.
I really don't understand the distinction. Two brains kept in lock step, identical stimulus leading to identical neural pathways etc would be the same consciousness until they diverged. How are they not the same? What essence do you think exists that gives identical perceptions of past history nevertheless distinct individuality?
>>80570729
>I do not fear death.
any man that says this is full of shit.
otherwise they'd be long dead
>>80570787
What if we're having a collective hallucination, though? See, this is the mess I was talking about. Subjective things are impossible to pin down.
>>80570593
Maybe take it slow. Concepts can be hard to digest sometimes.
>>80570619
Coming from a leaf i know how it feels
>>80557993
>False. We know how the brain works, roughly, and how messages are sent, but there is still no good consensus on where consciousness comes from.
Technically it's not false though. At the very base level, it's electro-chemical reactions from connected neurons, correct? Obviously there's more to it such as the structures these neurons are arranged in.
>>80570680
No. The input of electrons into the perception system is an objective electro-chemical process. The perception itself is not objective.
Thats the difference between software and hardware.
>>80569066
So assassins creed simulator?
>>80570541
I imagine it just to be as before you were born, or after waking up and not remembering your dream
But there really is no point in over thinking because it's going to lead to nowhere
>>80570871
All evidence points to the contrary, but there is no way to know.
Thats the kind of question that is irrelevant, because it would make no difference.
>>80570871
Maybe because we still have this primitive mind set of if this than that
Lizards mindsets are kill or be killed fuck and surivive without being killed
I have a feel we are primative as fuck when it comes to thinking or figuring shitout
>>80570846
They are the same, and their consciences are identical, but they are not the same, as in they are not shared. They cannot exchange information.
>>80571033
I don't know anything about assassins creed, other than that it is a game.
>>80570541
It is rather simple. Actually, the simplest of concepts: O
>>80570541
Yea it freaks me out and gives me a bad feeling of panic for a short time.
Although for all you know you will still exist who knows.
>>80571369
That was meant to be a null symbol.
>>80570541
I try to comprehend all the memories of other people and experiences I've forgotten over my span of life.
then I realize that nothing really matters and Im ok with it.
>>80571448
Anybody that understands the concept of wishfull thinking knows.
>>80571007
software and hardware are fundamentally the same, software is just abstracting electrical signals through logical gates (the hardware) into pixels on a screen and a whole interaction mechanism
When you perceive a "red" wavelength, what is objectively happening is the electro-chemical signals in the brain. The perception of red itself is just... all part of our data processing and recognition. The system of interaction A maps to this idea of red, but the idea of red only exists to be able to integrate into pattern recognition. System of interaction B maps to this idea of yellow. The idea of yellow doesn't actually exist, just the system of interaction. Yellow is just an abstraction of the mind to integrate into our data recognition system. If that made sense at all.
>>80571213
I think you're stuck in a primitive metaphysical mindset. You see the mind as a thing, an objective phenomenon when it isn't. It's SUBJECTIVE. If two minds on different physical media have the same information, they are the same. If you take them, neuron by neuron, and connect them up with every single connection overlapping perfectly while being careful to not cause any breakages, they'd no long be different things, but neither would either have ever been stopped.
>>80571624
Red and yellow are abstractions of the mind, they exist only to our data recognition systems, not to the world.
>>80571624
Letters and words are real, but concepts are objectively real?
You are trying to ascribe objective nature to things derived from objectivity in a way that isn't objective.
>>80571500
>43 posts by this ID
stop shilling non existance fag
>>80557072
Combine the fact that energy only changes state and orchestrated reduction provides evidence that consciousness is a result of quantum field collapse I am confident that our consciousness merely achieves a new energy state upon cessation of the field collapse
>>80571665
Am i now?
I'm talking about consciousness. Thats subjective. The mind is objective. Consciousness is our perception of our minds. And as such, each of the two would have identical but dissociated perceptions of their individual minds.
>>80571791
>Red and yellow are abstractions of the mind
actually colors exist, they are a property and effect of the light spectrum our sun is emitting.
And relative to how our sense of sight interprets the data.
>>80571624
>software and hardware are fundamentally the same
they are literally the same thing : one's just usually smaller than the other
>>80571903
Found me again huh?
You should really try to read my posts, since you are being paid to do it anyway.
>>80571791
>>80571791
This since dogs can only see black and white
Color itself is the humans brain but that conclude that we experience the same since we see the same colors
>>80571827
Letters and words are abstractions of the mind, the ink on the paper only exists.
Analogously red and yellow are abstractions of the mind, only the thought process which invokes the colors exist.
The former of both are just ways for us to reason quickly and effectively - it exists to our data processing unit
Same thing that happened before you were born.
You immediately wake up again as something else.
You can't forgo experiencing consciousness-it's logically impossible. If I'm not seeing, smelling, feeling, thinking, etc., then that interval is necessarily skipped. It absolutely has to be. There is just no way around it. Before Earth was formed billions of years ago, you didn't wait in line waiting to be born. No-you instantaneously began experiencing consciousness because there is no "OFF" switch. Also, objects need subjects, or there would be no objects at all to begin with, nor subjects. You need both-one to look, one to be looked at.
You only perceive yourself to exist "this one time" because of your ego. Like someone else said, you physically, literally, demonstrably wake up a new organism everyday.
Don't believe me? Kill yourself right now and you'll fine out.
But that's the thing! You'll never find out what happens "after death" because nothing happens! Once you poke your head out around the bend you become something else and the whole thing starts over again.
>>80572043
It was a pedagogical instrument. But yes, that was my point.
>>80571959
>implying I am going to read 45 posts scattered around a topic
Post a summary of your shilling then for me to read.
>>80570846
I'll give you my (unscientific) understanding, which I will believe until science proves it wrong.
Think of it like different "dimensions" existing at the same location. In one "dimension" (or realm, if you prefer), the physical world exists. We have bodies made of carbon and we have a consciousness made of a web of electrically-charged neurons. When we die, that web disintegrates, and our existence in the physical realm ceases to be. At the same time, our metaphysical existence activates.
Many Christians believe the soul exists within the body, and is the house of our consciousness. Instead, imagine that our soul (and the Kingdom of Heaven) is entirely separate, yet linked, to the physical plane. When the electro-chemical phenomenon of physical consciousness ceases to be, our metaphysical consciousness awakens in the form of our soul.
Long story short, the typical Christian narrative is materialistic, but perhaps it should be transcendentalist instead.
>>80572249
http://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/science/art-maintaining-core-frequency-life/
most of what he said can be found in that link. and other things
>>80571959
Way to not make an argument. I just demonstrated how something you'd consider two different consciousnesses could be merged without destroying either and all you do is just state the same exact position again. Also mind and consciousness are basically the same thing. Your statement only makes sense if you meant "brain" instead.
>>80572102
holl up, Ima kill myself right now and report back
>>80572004
wavelength of light is an objective thing, rods and cones are objective things, we were talking about perception
4chan is full of fucking "intellectuals" and "philosophers".
who'd a thunk it?
>>80572249
Last time i proposed a riddle. If we are going to play a game, we have to follow the rules.
>>80572302
For fuck sakes. There is no need for dimensions. Its simple. You have group A. It is comprised of a b and c. You have group B. It is comprised of a b and c. They are identical, but aren't the same group.
They are identical minds, but each perceives itself individually.
>>80572164
What I'm saying is what we communicate as a color is an abstraction as well in order to give us a perception. That perception is objectively a thought process.
When I say red: your brain converts the text into a perception of the color red which is a similar physical thought process to my perception of red.
>>80572335
Because we are not talking about the same thing. I'm talking about the individual subjective perception of something, and you are talking about the thing itself. There is a difference which you are refusing to acknowledge.
>>80572389
Suppose you found out proof that kensian economics are a fraud. Suppose someone paid you millions of dollars to sign a non-disclosure agreement. Where on earth could you share your life's work without being prosecuted?
>>80572536
I'm too far removed from the original topic to understand what you're saying.
Our physical (electro-chemical) consciousness is independent from our (my) entirely speculative metaphysical consciousness.
I'm not claiming to know facts. I'm giving my understanding of the way I personally perceive the world.
But now I'm seeing I shouldn't have previously replied to you in the first place because we're discussing entirely different subjects. My bad nigger.
>>80572337
So did it work anon? what are your findings?
>captcha is sandwiches
>just pictures of burgers
REEEEEEEEEe
>>80572639
Perception is just a fancy word for an abstraction of the mind and it maps to a physical electro-chemical system of reactions. That physical system is objective. Just as your consciousness is an abstraction which maps to a structurally-similar system.
>>80572612
Yes, the message is objective. The content of the message is not. An electron is objective. The fact that in this organizational matrix it can be ascribed meaning is not objective, because the process through which you acribe that meaning is not objective itself, thus, creating a positive - negative logical relation that leads to its subjective nature.
>>80572847
No! The abstraction is physical!
>>80572797
No problem. Here is my original post in case you got interested.
>>80564294
>>80569210
My nigga
>>80569338
Sorry Mr skeleton, I see through your lies.
>>80572800
日本人として生まれ変わった
前よりもちんこが小さくなってきた、これは大変です
>>80572805
>>80572932
Yes, but thats the thing with abstractions. By definition, they abstract something subjective from something objective.
Who is the hue now?
>>80557072
reality is just a subset of fantasy which implies reality is just an element of fantasy. in other words there are many forms of consciousness and not just the one you think you know. once you do drugs or become schizophrenic you'll understand.
>>80572639
Perception is data. I consider two identical data sets to be the same data. With any individual difference in the actual data-- not the storage location, not in the method of encoding or any thing else, but the data in question-- to be different data.
You haven't really addressed or seemingly even understood my example of the two brains kept in lock step that were merged.
Whoop dee doo you faggots. I still have to get up and work my ass off tomorrow.
>>80573153
No, the shared fantasy is what we call objective reality.
If i hallucinate rain, its not objective.
If two of us hallucinate rain, its not objective.
But if everyone hallucinated rain, we'd by definition accept it as objective reality.
Seriously, get a grip. This isn't even logic, its language.
>>80573152
subjectivity just means from the subject... from the physical entity... from the structural system of neurons and synapses
Subjectivity is a lie. When I see red it's just data for my system to integrate. The sensation itself is an abstraction or data for my system to interpret and react to.
>>80557072
You wait several thousand eons in a state of probability until the right combination atoms enters you into another realm of consciousness.
Assuming infinite time and an infinite universe or multiverse.
>>80573369
I prefer the term consensus reality as opposed to objective
