I don't understand Americans have national pride/being patriotic as fuck/xenophobic when the country is founded upon immigration (legal or otherwise).
Basically, it seems natural that Germans would want to preserve Germany as they've always lived there; what I don't get is why Americans would feel the need to 'preserve' a land that is technically inhabited by Germans, Italians, Spaniards, French, etc.. In other terms, it's already a melting pot (whether you or I like it or not)
Maybe you can enlighten me. I am 100% against ILLEGAL immigration but I can't help but find it hypocritical when examining things from a native American perspective
>>71029589
Conservatives believe this. Family values cross the Rio Grande and other bromides, wouldn't matter if the USA was 100% Hispanic as long as it was 100% constitutional.
Alt-right says that people have a genetic predisposition towards individualism and liberty (see: Hajnal line), that freedom is a White People's Thing, Mainly. Either advocate for an ethnostate (identitarian) or completely halting immigration into the USA in order to assimilate the minorities we already have (paleocon) and maintain the racial balance of our nation.
Its a natural instinct. Immigrant scum or not.
>>71029589
Not an argument
Yeah your right white Americans are immigrants. Before we got here, the people that were living here were nomadic hunters or farmers who lived in huts. Meanwhile we had built nations where we came from. And we came here, and built this nation, before we got here there was no America to immigrate to.
>>71029589
>>71030018
Also, there has been significant ethnic mixing among Europeans to the point where a European ethnicity/race is fairly clear though the mix varies from region to region. Anglo-Celts in Dixie, Germans and Swedes in the Midwest, Irish/Italian/English/Scottish in New England, etc.
Having a family tree that extends around eight generations on my mother's side I say there is a solid claim to my existence here, I have a New England friend who is a 17th generation Yankee as well. I'd say we are both natives.
Tu quoque.
Anglos came as conquerors. Other European (the key here) groups came later.
The US has been 90% white until the immigration act of 1965. If it had ever been a melting pot, it would've been a melting pot of European cultures.
>>71029589
People descended from the original colonists are not immigrants. You can't immigrate to a country that didn't exist. Anyone living on that land when the US was created is not an immigrant.
only retards think racial nationalism matters
merit-based civic nationalism is 100% the logical way to go
>>71032505
The fact is white countries created everything good in modern life. Turn all white countries brown and humanity stops advancing forever. The human race needs white countries and white people whether they admit it or not.
I have ancestors who have been buried in this country for 300 years or more
I am not an immigrant and you can suck my dick
If the injuns want their clay back they can get together an army, otherwise you and them can shut the fuck up
>15th generation, pre-independence American master race reporting
Its called bringing civilization
>>71032772
The culture created by white countries is what's important. If a Puneet has disavowed his religion and culture in lieu of being an American and working to make something of himself, why is he of any less worth than a person who happens to have white skin?
>>71030842
So I guess if you're a Mexican kid born to illegal immigrants you should be granted citizenship
>>71030763
Closer to 84% white in 1960, spics were all counted as white.
At the current point in time spics can identify as whatever they want, roughly half identify as white putting self-identified whites at 71% in 2016. Whether you want to count spics as white is your own decision, non-spic whites are 62% in 2016. It is possible however that the explosion in self-identified hispanic whites is due to the lack of any criteria defining what a hispanic is beyond self-identification, technically even Anderson Cooper could be "hispanic white" since he has Chilean ancestors.
>>71033133
>Creators
>Maintainers
>Destroyers
These are the things you can be to a culture when you assemble a race of people in certain numbers.
If you have blacks that are high enough IQ and low enough violence, they can certainly coexist with white culture builders. But what ways can you realistically alter their race's average characteristics to allow them to coexist as a group? Selective breeding of the best of ANY race seems to be the only solution.
Imagine you have a soup, a melting pot if you will. And while you are carefully adding things in to make sure that soup remains tasty and health, million of people break down your door, toss all kinds of things into your bowl of soup without your consent, rape your family and call you a racist. But some of them are nice people.
>>71029589
established culture, are the words you are looking for.
it's not that difficult man.
>>71033133
Because culture isn't maintained by foreigners. The only reason America has retained it's culture is because the bulk of immigrants during the past 200 years were from Germanic, Protestant nations and Ireland which have similar cultures to the English founding stock you dumb faggot.
Already the Jews have altered certain parts of American culture to an unacceptable degree and Muslims, Hindus and the like continue to come in and bitch about how child marriage and polygamy are illegal. Asians bitch about California explicitly banning the consumption of animals defined as house pets.
The fact is as more non-Europeans move in and they gradually outnumber the European population they will change what "American culture" means using the ballot box. Hence why you're a fucking retard.
But no, I'm certain you'll totally be fine with your great-grandkids in 80 years telling you (because you're going to be fucking alive then) they're going to Kentucky Fried Dog for some real Chinese fried dog burgers- after all it's 100% American in the year 2096 when Asian-Americans are 20% of the population and whites are 30%.
>>71032505
What do you mean by "merit-based" civic nationalism? That those with more merit should be allowed to become citizens? What happens when a statistically well-performing racial group gains more political power over a group whose average performance level is lower than theirs?
>>71033133
Would you say that an African child adopted by white parents who have a higher I.Q. than the child ever will (statistically speaking, there are definitely exceptions to the rule) would be able to completely carry the torch of the civilization they're trying to pass on, or would it be diluted?
>>71033349
It literally has nothing to do with race. If a nation has civic nationalism, the groups won't self-divide on race.
>>71033481
America has maintained dick-all from European culture, though. "American culture" has never been about the arts/foods/practices of our ancestors. The point of America was literally to eschew your cultural norms in exchange for a nation of freedom and opportunity. Our ancestors immigrated here in spite of their old country, not because they loved it.
Point is, we can hold on to what brought us, as individuals, heritages, etc., to where we are today. That doesn't mean we have to dictate how other people live their lives or assume they're going to be less useful because of their heritage.
As for your complaints about Arabs and polygamy, child marriage, etc. and Asians complaining about eating cats/dogs: Those are valid complaints and I'd consider them part of the "merits" that qualify a person for immigration. Those are American values, regardless of their origin, and we need to make sure above all else that an immigrant is willing to become American FIRST, and care about their race or heritage later.
>>71033654
>What do you mean by "merit-based" civic nationalism? That those with more merit should be allowed to become citizens? What happens when a statistically well-performing racial group gains more political power over a group whose average performance level is lower than theirs?
Yes. If Thomas Sowell wasn't American, would you restrict him from immigrating because he's black?
If a society cares about merit and American values first, and race or heritage after, then it wouldn't matter if whites were statistically outperforming blacks because our policies and laws wouldn't reflect any racial biases. The only reason we're in the pickle we're in today is because of the concerted media and government effort to push multiculturalism OVER American nationalism.
>>71033654
>Would you say that an African child adopted by white parents who have a higher I.Q. than the child ever will (statistically speaking, there are definitely exceptions to the rule) would be able to completely carry the torch of the civilization they're trying to pass on, or would it be diluted?
That's an interesting topic. I don't see why a nation should allow adoption across borders in the first place, unless the nation's demand for adoption exceeds its own supply of orphans.
I will concede that the philosophy gets murky here if the orphan is from a region where average IQs are particularly poor. I know some parts of Africa have an average IQ < 70, and you're probably right in thinking that they won't have the economic potential of someone from a European or Asian nation.
I don't know if that demands that they would be a poor worker or detriment to the economy, though. I worked as a site engineer for an electrical and gas company, and a lot of the site workers were dumb as a brick but still made $90k salaries because they still had skills in demand.
There's no such thing as euorpean or american values, there's only european and american people.
You won't have european values without european people, that's just a scam to feel your culture will prevail once you are a minority wich has never happen in history.
>>71034373
>Yes. If Thomas Sowell wasn't American, would you restrict him from immigrating because he's black?
This isn't an accurate portrait of The Way Things Be, Man. Sowell is part of one of the lowest I.Q. groups on that planet, who never emigrated, but were enslaved because of their inferiority. I don't get to decide which blacks become citizens. In the case of screening other potential citizens, it has done very little to prevent people like the San Bernadino shooters from coming into the country. It also doesn't solve the fact that diversity ruins civic participation.
>If a society cares about merit and American values first, and race or heritage after, then it wouldn't matter if whites were statistically outperforming blacks because our policies and laws wouldn't reflect any racial biases. The only reason we're in the pickle we're in today is because of the concerted media and government effort to push multiculturalism OVER American nationalism.
>America has maintained dick-all from European culture, though. "American culture" has never been about the arts/foods/practices of our ancestors. The point of America was literally to eschew your cultural norms in exchange for a nation of freedom and opportunity. Our ancestors immigrated here in spite of their old country, not because they loved it.
While it was about achieving freedom *from* tyrannies in the Fatherland, American culture is the most pan-European you can get. The Founding Fathers saw themselves as Platonic Philosopher Kings, heralds of the European Enlightenment and sought to create the ideal society they thought was the telos of the West. In addition, up until and including the civil war period, most men, including the Founders, agreed that the only solution to slavery and the Negro Question was to expatriate them to Africa.
It would matter if one group held more political power than the others, this is the cause of identity politics and affirmative action. Groups fight for self-interest.
>>71029589
EUROPEAN immigrants made America great
>>71035820
>There's no such thing as euorpean or american values, there's only european and american people.
There is no American people, there are only Europeans.
>I don't know if that demands that they would be a poor worker or detriment to the economy, though. I worked as a site engineer for an electrical and gas company, and a lot of the site workers were dumb as a brick but still made $90k salaries because they still had skills in demand.
Slave workers are quite a boon to the economy of Dubai. The point is that it denigrates Beauty, Purpose and the Culture of a nation. The only efficient multiracial society that exists is Singapore, because they are a quasi-fascist city state in a very advantageous position in terms of geography. We should seek solutions to *particular* problems, not deal in universals and abstracts.
>>71029589
do it hesus
>>71029589
Just because we have multiple ethnic origins doesn't mean we don't have a solid cultural identity.
Immigrants dilute that culture.
>>71034373
>wall of text about dumb bullshit
America has a culture derived from Europe you dumb fuck, it is not a culture that is specifically a European culture
Goddamn you're an idiot.
Watching it from the native American perspective = cucking/caring about other more than about your own. Europeans came, conquered the unorganized natives and made the USA an actual country. Did the natives think "ooh but but someone was maybe here before us.." when they first confronted the Europeans? No. It's simply the law of nature, kid. You're either at the table of a restaurant, or you're on the menu.
>>71037674
Of course it does.
You realize I'm advocating for nationalism, right? I want people to hold American culture and values more dear than anything. That PRECLUDES immigrants whose values contradict America's.
>>71037009
We one RACIAL origin, regardless of ethnicity.
>>71038341
In order to maintain American values Americans derived from the civilization which originated those values must remain the majority- that is, white people.
Civic nationalism is nice but purely civic nationalism is national suicide. It must always have the consideration that there is a national core majority who created those values.
Civic nationalism completely failed in Rhodesia because the whites were outnumbered by the blacks and the blacks rejected the notion that they should adopt white culture, hence Rhodesia collapsed.
The more non-whites and people without Northwest European ancestry there are in the USA the more likely they will try and tear down the existing culture. Talk to any child of immigrants and they will always be in favor of more immigration- it doesn't matter whether the immigration is from their parents' country or not, they are simply in favor of immigration because they themselves are a product of it and thus find the notion that there is an existing America they don't quite belong to offensive and seek to replace and destroy it. Immigration must always be low and primarily European and people who were not born here should be barred from political offices above the local level.
>>71039359
>In order to maintain American values Americans derived from the civilization which originated those values must remain the majority- that is, white people.
[citation needed]
What of a black man whose family spent 7 generations in a European nation? Well he's black, so he must not have European values.
This nation is fundamentally founded on political ideals, not race or heritage.
A black man who supports American ideals is better than a white commie any day of the week. You know it's true. You KNOW you'd import Thomas Sowell before Bill Ayers.
All you have to do is admit to yourself that race doesn't define the individual. You and I both know you won't do that.
You're also assuming that I support mass immigration because I support civic nationalism. I absolutely don't. Immigration should be at an absolute minimum unless there is a labor shortage, and even though, it should be kept low so that the peoples integrate into American culture.
Things like Chinatowns and Dearborn, Michigan should never happen. People of OPPOSING cultures should never be allowed to immigrate, and people of neutral-but-different cultures should be rate-limited so they can't form pocket communities.
>>71040460
>what of this one particular case
>people who disagree with me BTFO
Like I said you're a fucking retard
>>71033404
>This
It used to be when people can to America they went through the long immigration process and assimilated to our established culture. The American dream was something that people worked worked hard and strived to achieve. Now people are crossing the boarder illegally or overstaying their visas and are perfectly content with living in a welfare state. There was a time when "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" meant something, but now liberals conveniently leave off the "yearning to breathe free" and welfare/other government hand outs do not coincide with true freedom.
>>71030763
That is not even true. Anglos settled some parts, Dutch and German other parts and Spanish and French to the south. And that is way back in the beginning.
New York was New Amsterdam long before the English majority took it over. Most of NY, Pennsylvania, Ohio, etc was Dutch, German and Scottish settlers.
The oldest city here is st Augustine. A Spanish fort.
>>71029589
>I am 100% against ILLEGAL immigratio
Bullshit.
Here is a proposal: Pass a law saying that the United States has open borders, and that anyone can come and go without any documents, stops, checkpoints, or anything. Also in this law is that anyone who is in the United States, or its territories, whether or not they were born here, is automatically a full citizen.
So, under this law, all you have to do is step foot on American soil and you become a full citizen with full voting rights. This would mean that EVERY immigrant is thereby legal, since it would be literally impossible to be an illegal immigrant.
Do you support such a law? Probably not. Thus, I would posit that you support limited immigration in a controlled manner which would allow those arriving time to integrate.
>>71029589
Populations with average IQs below 95 struggle to maintain first-world civilizations, and it basically becomes impossible below 90. Yet we're importing people with IQs in the low-80s, who breed much more rapidly due to r/K selection, and assuming America will still be a first world civilization in 100 years. It's madness.
>>71029589
>what I don't get is why Americans would feel the need to 'preserve' a land that is technically inhabited by Germans, Italians, Spaniards, French, etc..
That's because you're a fucking retard. I was born here, I'm an American. I didn't come from some European shithole.
I'm not an immigrant, dipshit.
>>71041195
Whites are more likely to be commies than any other race in America.
Why do you assume people will preserve American ideals simply because they're white?
>>71029589
Xenophobia is just a scary buzzword used by the media now to brand anyone who isn't pro-immigration.
I'm so sick of the "America is a land of immigrants" line. The time when America was a "land of immigrants" has long passed. We have immigrants, but we have Americans several generations deep. We are the Americans.
AND AS FAR AS THE NATIVE AMERICANS GO: They lost. They got wiped out but war and unfortunate circumstance of which the settlers had direct influence, but it's done. Nobody who is alive has dealt with or even heard from people who have directly dealt with the settling of America.
>>71029589
> it's already a melting pot (whether you or I like it or not)
Sure, but when you're trying to mix thing to make somethign great, you'd prefer to keep the shit out. There's a difference between people who built a nation and those who are only there for the easy ride.
>>71041545
Louisiana was a territory of both the Spanish and the French before the Louisiana purchase. The architecture of the French Quarter is actual Spanish. New Orleans' tricentennial is in 2018 and since it was founded it and the rest of southern Louisiana has been a melting pot of French, Spanish, and Haitian before it was purchased. Now it's even more diverse and is a hard red state. Diversity of race is not the problem culture, values, and ideals are a problem when immigrates refuse to assimilate. The integration of the parts of their culture, values, and ideals that fit within Americans own is perfectly fine, but without an understanding of what the established American life is, immigrates will bring their problems to our country. Assimilation is a critical part of immigration of successful immigration policy. They left leave their country for a reason and the open boarder/liberal feels way of doing things do immigrates and the country a disservice by adjusting America to immigrates and not the other way around.
>>71029589
It's irrelevant.
Lets take this to an extreme;
10,000 blonde haired blue eyed whites who call themselves "Aryans" colonize mars.
They have their own property and (actual) social contracts.
They value most highly thier liberty and survival.
>why should they accept migrants?
>can you justify why violence should be used to force them yo associate with others?
Ultimately thats what state enforced migratoon entails.
Put it this way, if the whites arrivec in America yesterday how does that justify them accepting other migrants? It does not logically follow. Also remember tge USA expanded forcefully (or as a result of continuous defensive war) or through purchases either from natives or other Europeans (eg: the whole mid west from France) as a state, acquisition by treaty is not migration.
>>71029589
>it seems natural that Germans would want to preserve Germany as they've always lived there
My family has been in America since the 1600s. That's longer than Germany has been a country.
>>71045359
Ignore the spelling errors
>>71029589
>founded upon immigration
no its not you idiot. maybe founded on conquest, but immigration is not a big part of america its really just a lie made up by later familys who moved here to exploit the opportunity america had. early american cucks thought we should help because we once had to flee from muh war and kings but there was considerable backlash because america is also supposed to be a land of the free, where people fought with their own blood to protect THEIR way of life, not every single person's, and now look, everyone in america thinks they can just hijack the country for their own beliefs like its some sort of democratic anarchy. liberals want to force extreme change on 100+ million people who disagree with them, and vice verca, this country is out of fucking control and everything the old people fought for is dead, thanks a lot immigration, we coulda been smart about you but we were too fucking gullible and stupid
>>71045604
me too buddy, early 1600s, lets go have a drink with chevy chase
>>71045857
This. Liberty is extremely fragile. Bringnig in different sub-groups will only serve to make one sub-group of people attempt to squash the self-determination of another sub-group.
Immigration is the government using foreign hordes to place the tyranny of the majority on your neck and call it fair and equitable.
>>71029589
Legal immigration is fine. Me and everyone I know are all for legal immigration. So you can cut about 100 people out of your generality.
Legal immigration allows us to weed out the freeloaders, regardless of their race.
>>71029589
If you are born in the USA you are not an immigrant.
Fucking cuckold piece of shit.
>>71029589
Illegal are literally criminals. Stealing from society.
>you conquered north america now you have to let other people conquer it to be fair
America is for Whites only. Go back where you came from.
>>71047083
>Legal immigration is fine.
No, it isn't.
>Me and everyone I know are all for legal immigration.
It makes it easier when traitors openly identify themselves.
Murrica is more of a private club. And once in a while we exercise discretion in who is let in.
>>71029589
America is a European built nation you fucking idiot, that's why they want to preserve the culture. The Europeans who came over here built an empire and their work should be preserved. The Indians had their chance and did nothing with the land except die on it. Europeans took it and made it great. America will always be a European born nation and that's why we fight to preserve the little European culture we have left.
Even niggers have contributed more to America than injuns. Injuns were just the roaches we had to clean out before we renovated the place.
>>71029589
> when you buy a house you shouldn't be able to put locks on the doors
>>71048431
>this
The USA may have been an immigrant nation about 100 years ago, OP but I'm not an immigrant. My great great great grandparents were immigrants.
>>71045604
>>71046195
Same, I've had family die in every war we've had.
i was born here
i will die here
become a citizen legally or fuck right off back to your shithole
