CHRISTIAN GENERAL
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Can we celebrate the triumph over the attempt to push a Vatican II on the Orthodox Church?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L80lb1T0ecs [Embed]
>The document affirms love and peace as the church's ideals, criticizes racism, inequality, moral degradation and "liberal globalism" -- it's an agenda as conservative as it is anodyne.
>Yet the Council could have changed the Orthodox churches' ossified attitude toward the rest of Cristendom, which has not changed since the Dark Ages. To Orthodox Christians, all other denominations are heresies, not churches. Some steps toward more ecumenism and more openness would already constitute serious progress for what is now the most conservative of Christian denominations. Patriarch Bartholomew, a friend of Pope Francis's, was determined to push it through.
Thankfully, it looks like his agenda has failed.
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-16/the-orthodox-church-stays-in-the-dark-ages
Catholics want to join forces with Protestants. If preventing a New World Order, of which religious singularity is one branch, please encourage Orthodox hierarchy members to not give into the Jesuit faggots in the Vatican.
Nice one, Orthos. I don't trust this Pope at all and you should definitely maintain yourselfs against whatever cuckery might happen.
Also (((bloomberg))) lol
>DARK AGES
>I BET THE GOYIM DID THIS
>>77679863
They won't, Christ promised the gates of hell would not prevail over us.
Orthodox cucks need to be converted to Catholicism 2bh.
God bless you Orthobros
>>77684873
Amen, he does.
I used to be a big fedora tipper but I hate degenerates way more then Christcucks.
Soo, DEUS VULT
>>77679863
True believers will never bend the knee to pope. Soli Deo Gloria
This is awesome.
Love in Christ, brothers.
>>77686088
>wealth and glory
I thought Luther was a monk?
>>77686337
Peace.
>>77687412
Cardinals, bishops and pope were also sworn to live for the church and practice humility. That did not prevent them from living lavishly in decadence with church money. Luther became a teacher of theology in university at quiten young age. If he had been loyal to church instead of God, he might have likely reached a status of bishop.
>>77688874
Cardinals and Popes don't have to take vows of poverty though, I don't think.
>>77688874
None of those people take vows of poverty. Only monks do.
>>77689371
If monk becomes cardinal or bishop, is he still bound by the rules/vows of the order or does attain new position?
>>77679258
If Orthodox Church weren't so irrelevant, maybe the jews would have pushed a bigger effort.
>>77689853
They should. Also jesuits have a special vow and are bound to not accept Papacy. It's a grey area because once a religious (member of an order, congregation, etc.) becomes bishop, it's not longer bound to those rules are vows, it's more a question of honor.
>>77690107
>Also jesuits have a special vow and are bound to not accept Papacy.
Your Pope is a Jesuit
>>77690351
No he's not. It's stopped being a jesuit in 1992 when we was consacrated as a Bishop. He was only bound for "honour" to not accept the Papacy. Probably many cardinals through History has been elected Pope and rejected it before the world even know anything about it. For honor.
Bergoglio has no honor (and he's problably not actualy a Pope, anyways).
Roman Satanic cult and pseudo-Jewish Lutherans put to eternal shame
>>77690555
Ah, the vow is optional.
>and he's problably not actualy a Pope, anyways
So are his sacraments invalid, or what? And are the people he appoints as bishops, not valid bishops?
>>77690699
It's a sedevacantist meme.
In reality they literally had a woman Pope in past.
That's what happens when you mix spiritual and temporal power.
>>77679258
I'm considering converting from Catholicism to Orthodox since it genuinely seems less like heresy.
How do I do this?
Tradional Catholicism is the best option
>>77691054
This.
>>77691054
And what's traditional Catholicism in your mind?
Popes living like kings, ruling their domains like nobles, Papal "elections" within family, selling of indulgences, and so on?
Vatican bank?
Catholicism was always corrupt shit. Now however they are gay hippy liberal church. A modest improvement.
>>77691219
The Old Catholic Church opposes the decisions made by Vaticanum I. That's why they split in 1870.
>>77679258
Very happy about the result. Orthodox unity. OUR CHURCH WILL NOT BE KEKED!
>>77679258
The Pope is a cuck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncckxAjp8uY
>>77690699
He's a bishop, a priest. A Pope doesn't posses any "special sacrament".
>>77690821
Benedict XVI has never formaly renounced the Papacy. A few days ago its own personal secretary confirmed it. He said he just expanded it and now we have a Papacy with two members, one active and one contemplative.
Its safe to say that we don't know what the fuck is going on there. But there can be only one valid Pope at a time so...
Also I'm not sure if a woman can even be Pope. I theory you don't even have to be a priest, but the moment they elect you Pope you need to be made bishop. I don't think it's possible for a woman to be made Pope since they are physically unable to recieve the sacret orders.
>>77690896
Go to an Orthodox Church, attend service for a while. Recommend Greek for initiation, they are a little more chill and easy to get into. Then you declare your wish to be baptized in the Orthodox faith, you have a few lessons, then you are baptized and chrismated, and join the eternal Church.
>>77691666
>A Pope doesn't posses any "special sacrament".
He has the whole "full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church" thing.
>>77691666
>He's a bishop, a priest. A Pope doesn't posses any "special sacrament".
Then how would he not be a "real" Pope? He's ordained a bishop, and sits in the chair, he is de facto a Pope. Popes have the power to choose bishops, if you think his choices in that regard are valid, then you must recognize the office is validly his.
Who else /catholic/ here?
>>77691774
Greek are the most laid back, but Antiochene are the most converts by far and do all their services in the local language in the West
>>77684866
Not an argument.
>>77679258
>an obviously opinionated greentext
>bloomberg
We should lament that there is not more unity with Orthodox bros. What's wrong with Vatican II is not Vatican II, as it is an infallible Church document just like Trent, Vatican I, etc. What's wrong with Vatican II is the so-called "spirit of Vatican II" that was/is basically just wolves in sheeps' clothing trying to denigrate Holy Mother Church.
tl;dr, this >>77684866
and this >>77684756
Aside from that, Orthodox bros are awesome. If I wasn't Catholic, I would definitely be Orthodox, but I'm Catholic because, well, it's the One True Holy and Apostolic religion.
Christ has Risen
>>77692095
Hello. I found this last night, and I think it's awesome. It's basically the anthem of the Church Fathers.
"This is a translation of an apocryphal text, the Didache, or the 'two ways,' a set of ethical precepts attributed to the original apostles. In the introduction, Hoole presents evidence that it was derived from other apocryphal works, such as the Shepherd of Hermas, and the Epistle of Barnabas. However, modern scholars are certain that the Didache dates to the late first or early second century. It was considered canonical by some of the Church Fathers. It was eventually rejected from the canon, but is still considered part of the collection of Apostolic Fathers by the Catholic Church. The text was lost, but was rediscovered in 1873 in a Greek Codex written in 1075 and published along with other texts in 1883. As such it represents a window into a very early Christianity, including information on rituals such as baptism, and the itinerant ministry of the time.--J.B. Hare, Jan. 3, 2010."
Full text is here->> http://sacred-texts.com/chr/did/did03.htm
It's a great read for any true christians and an awesome example of how our Faith has been handed down for 2000 years, unscathed and protected by our Lord's promise. Happy reading!
>>77692535
Amen, Orthodox friend.
>>77691888
That's a ministery, not a sacrament. Sacrament is baptism, eucharist, confession, etc.
>>77692073
Benedict XVI is also Pope. He hasn't renounced the name, and other external signs that traditionally distinguishes a Pope.
Also it exist the possibility of being an anti-Pope, that in all exteral factors appears as a Pope without being actually a Pope. Being pope is not like a human office, like president of a country, it also involves a ministery that you've got to fulfill faithfully or else you can be declared anti-Pope (for example, if you declare an heresy).
>>77692128
yes, but Antioch in the West are largely cucked. avoid unless you want to hear about refugee bullshit
These threads need to stop lumping liberal protestants with evangelical Protestantism, there's as much difference between them as Russian Orthodox and Romanism
>>77692095
have you done your duty as a catholic today?
how many refugee feet did you kiss today?
how many refugees did your wife pleasure?
>>77693313
I just can't shake off the fact that the german protestants are beyond saving. They have abandoned all values and beliefes and just stab other Christians in the back.
>>77692128
>>77693179
Antioch orthodoxy is sadly tainted but very small by refugee bullshit.
>someone talked about making a film about help these poor people out war torn places
>only happened once and was a special thing this guy wanted to share.
Besides that everyone is super nice trump supporting people. Talked to a nice lady about how mistreated he is in the media and she said "Of course with the Jewish media are you kidding."
I had a big ol smile.
>>77693474
There is no scriptural precedent for anybody being beyond saving, why don't you read the scriptures
>>77693570
Why don't you convert?
>>77693570
They might be saved by the Lord, but I for sure won't be able to get them out of the mess they created.
>christians fighting amongst each other calling each other cucks
>>77693508
oh cool! based!
>>77693313
there is hardly any doctrinal difference between eastern orthodox and roman catholic. filioque and priest marriage, thats it.the differences are all politics, and cosmetics.
Hello, Agnostic or whatever it's called now here. (just never have been interested in Religion really)
I was recently interested in converting to one, and, well Islam is shit, I can't be Jewish and being Buddhist require a special lifestyle, so Christianity was the way to go, and I have some questions :
>How can you know he does exist ? Did you got any visions and saw something that was, by you, from him ?
>Don't you sometimes think that your faith is more about giving yourself more courage, a goal to accomplish each day ? To give you more strength in our mad world and not about following the sayings of someone ?
>Do you really believe in the after life ? Eternity seems like such a.. complicated and boring thing, wouldn't you want to end it one day, once you're in heaven/hell ? As Molyneux said, non-religious will have less barriers from doing something bad, for they don't believe in a greater power, so don't you, once again think that you believe in God to have a good lifestyle ?
>What do you think about Islam ?
>What do you think about the violent verses in the Bible, such as : Samuel 15:3, 15:18.
>Why would the Lord allow fellow Christians to die not with honor by Muslims, like in Syria ? And, why would he let you suffer if he loves you ?
After asking some of those questions to Christians, most of the responses were "that's it, or because it is God's will" etc. I know that it may seem clear to you when you have faith, but for disbeliever like us, a lot of concepts are odd. And, sorry if the questions are vagues, and sorry for my frog English.
>>77693790
I think he was a cunt, but I'm pretty sure I'd be right in saying Ante Pavelic would have had your eyeballs removed
Can I be a late convert to Orthodoxy? I've been reading up and it's resonating with me.
>>77693842
Not exactly. What about Marian doctrine, original sin, atonement theory?
>>77693842
>priest marriage
Even the Catholic Church allows priests to be married on some occasions. One can be freed of celibacy by the Pope. The Old Catholic Church allows even the married to become a priest.
>>77693038
That's not what anti-popes are. They were purely political moves where kings would set up bishops as a pope because of disagreements or someone else would still claim to be pope in a different city.
>>77693924
>Marian doctrine
like what, Theotokos is revered in the east as well?
>original sin, atonement theory
What in particular?
>>77693879
>eternal anglo
post disregarded
Why are all you non-Orthodox spastics praising their church for continuing to consider you heretics?
>>77693884
Nope, doing it now. They let you learn and I talk to the father's and ask them questions about the faith. He's getting me into a class so I can learn more alongside another family that wishes to convert. At a certain point you he will ask if your ready to become orthodox and you can say yes or wait a little longer.
It's nice, they really like gold and serphim in there art which I like too.
>>77693870
> Came to Christianity by studying Christian apologetics. Look into arguments for God in general first, then arguments about the Resurrection. Took me a long time to feel the holy spirit, but it came eventually. watch religious movie, like the Passion.
> Faith helps with that stuff, but ultimately it is about transcending, about seeing truth beyond the material world which is fleeting
> Heaven is indescribable ecstacy. You will not feel boredom there.
> Islam is a false religion preached by a very gifted military tactician. Look at its claims. Unlike Christianity, it is not based on a collection of testimonies, but the testimony of one man, in a cave, talking to an angel when nobody saw. Not different from Mormonism really. It's not all bad, it does have some good traditional values, and it is suited to Arabs quite well, but it isn't ture. I mean, they dont even believe Jesus was crucified, and there is no historian anywhere who agrees with that.
> What about them? These were evil people who became so depraved that God had to wipe them out. He gave them time to correct their ways during the Egyptian captivity, but they didn't. So he had to wipe them out. Nothing of value was lost.
> The Christians who are martyred do die with honor, so long as they do not renounce His name. A martyrs death is the most honorable death, and a joy for us. God would let us suffer because our suffering is the result of 2 things.
> 1 > the natural evil in the world caused by its fall
> 2 > free human agency to do evil
God values our moral agency more than our hapiness. His goal is not to have people live happy 70-80 year life spans. That would be pointless from an eternal perspective. His goal is for the maximum number of people to come to Him of their own free will.
>>77693978
Yes I know that. But that's not the only way to make an anti-Pope. If a Pope says an heresy and excommunicates himself then he immediatelly stop being the Pope, ipso facto. If he officially retains the "office" he would be an anti-Pope.
>>77694107
It's not the fact that they consider us heretic (it's not like its mandatory for all of them doing so since they really don't have a visible head anyway). Is the fact that their acting with coherence for the sake of being loyal to the truth (even with human mistakes) instead of the word system what we should celebrate.
>>77694019
Orthodoxy does not teach that Mary was immaculately conceived for example
Atonement is understood under the old Ransom model in Orthodoxy, whereas Catholics use Anselmian Satisfaction model
>>77693870
>How can you know he does exist ?
I don't know, I can't even be certain.
>Did you got any visions and saw something that was, by you, from him ?
There are a lot of strange things going on it this world. Once you dive into paranormal activities, you have to admit that there are forces beyond human comprehension.
>Don't you sometimes think that your faith is more about giving yourself more courage, a goal to accomplish each day ? To give you more strength in our mad world and not about following the sayings of someone ?
It's exactly that, a robe to help you stand up when you fell, a sign that points out virtues and values you may have forgotten. The Church is guidance.
>Do you really believe in the after life ?
I find it hard to believe that there is much after death, but I'm willing to be happily surprised. It doesn't change the way I function here and now, I doubt you can gain karma points. As for heaven and hell, maybe those who sin have to endure this mess forever, this would be my personal hell.
>What do you think about Islam ?
As with every religion, it has it's ups and downs. Islamists tend to be uneducated, which leaves them as easy prey for wrongdoers. I still distrust them.
>What do you think about the violent verses in the Bible, such as : Samuel 15:3, 15:18.
You need to defend yourself and your people. The fact that we preach love and equality all day long has left us as an easy target for everyone. A strong church isn't one to say sorry all the time.
>Why would the Lord allow fellow Christians to die not with honor by Muslims, like in Syria ? And, why would he let you suffer if he loves you ?
The Lord gives opportunites, we still have to take them. There is no sword coming from the skies which you can use to behead people, but there might be a gem you see that you can give a smith. He helps those who help themselves.
>>77679258
>The ultraconservatism and inflexibility of the faith is an underestimated factor that's hindering the modernization of countries such as Russia and Greece. Until Orthodox Christianity takes steps toward the rest of the Christian world and starts relaxing its harsh dogmatism, these nations will continue to feel the pull of their distant past.
>feel the pull of their distant past
Shit I wish there was something like that here, we have no past really just a cult of the Constitution
>>77690896
You must become born again, baptized in the holy spirit. Find a local pastor in a non-denominational church and they can help you.
will catholicism and orthodoxy ever be (re)united?
>>77695694
No. They do work great along each other, why fuck up a good system?
First lie: In my name you shall move mountains, and from then on it's a cascade of lies to justify previous lies to make you be afraid of being anywhere close to Satan. Since they are lying so much, do it openly, accept Satan by saying with your mouth Save me Satan (do it in your mind if you cannot speak) Behold, the name of the God and saviour: Satan.
You don't know the true law, don't be stupid and do silly things they suggest, as they lied before.
There's no situation more stupid wherein an alleged evil spirit of "Satan" repents you accepting Satan and wants to move you outside of this path, and trust me, this is my situation.
Because the devil is jesus
>>77693870
>>77693870
I was raised in a solidly Christian home but left the church for a while. Recently (last few years) returned to the Church and I've wrestled with these questions, and here are my answers. Mind you God will bring you in how he wants, but here goes:
>How can you know he does exist ? Did you got any visions and saw something that was, by you, from him ?
No visions, no voices for me. I looked at the pattern of my life and the pattern of the lives of Christians around me and I saw a difference in where I was headed vs. them. I worked for a very Godly woman, the owner of a Christian coffeehouse in a small town. She didn't have the money to hire me, but felt very strongly that God wanted her to, and so she did. Long story short, I ended up marrying her sister, got my life on track, and I'm building a family.
So what convinced me that God exists? He put people who are already fully devoted to Him in my path, and over time my interaction with them got me focused on what He wants. That's how you know you're dealing with real Christians: the love, joy, and peace whose source is God becomes a part of your life.
>>77695018
Most people scoff at baptism in the holy spirit.
Maybe he should check out a FourSquare Church, Assemblies of God, or check out other local Pentecostal churches
>>77696054
>I can't literally move mountains with my mind like Jesus promised me
>Jesus is a liar!
Jesus obviously wasn't speaking literally here...
>Jesus is the devil is Jesus
pic related
>>77688874
Erasmus had all the same problems with corruption in the church that Luther did, but instead of splitting off and destroying the unity of Western Christianity Erasmus tried to fix it
>>77693870
>How can you know he does exist?
Faith, feelings that I have. When you let the Lord into your life you will feel it.
>Don't you sometimes think that your faith is more about giving yourself more courage, a goal to accomplish each day ? To give you more strength in our mad world and not about following the sayings of someone ?
I tried to find courage and stuff in worldly things and they always fall short. I was like you not long ago, once you start getting into seeing truth it's not about what you want anymore but what God calls you to do.
>Do you really believe in the after life ? Eternity seems like such a.. complicated and boring thing, wouldn't you want to end it one day, once you're in heaven/hell ? As Molyneux said, non-religious will have less barriers from doing something bad, for they don't believe in a greater power, so don't you, once again think that you believe in God to have a good lifestyle?
Time is a thing of our world and there is no such thing in heaven. Bored, ha. Read the Bible and all those people like Abraham, Moses, etc are there wouldn't talking to them be pretty cool? I wonder what Michael is like, being the leader of God's army and all. Believing will help me develop a better lifestyle, sure. It is actually helping when "trying to be a good person" as unfaithful never did.
>What do you think about Islam?
Mohammed might have seen an angel, sure. But it was probably the most infamous one of them all and not Gabriel.
>What do you think about the violent verses in the Bible, such as : Samuel 15:3, 15:18.
The people these verses reference were nephilim, giants.
>Why would the Lord allow fellow Christians to die not with honor by Muslims, like in Syria ? And, why would he let you suffer if he loves you?
The suffering in this world was created from the fall of man. Creation was perfect until then. The original sin is that thing you feel when you just know something isn't right.
>>77693870
I'll answer the last question next b/c I'm running out of time here:
>Why would God let you suffer if he loves you?
Romans 5:2b-5:
"...we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us.
Short answer: The ultimate purpose of humanity is to glorify God and enjoy him forever. Part of that is putting difficulty in our way on purpose so that we learn not to rely on ourselves, but on God. When we overcome, it is to God's credit and to His glory.
My kid's up so I gotta go, but be blessed, and please keep digging! Knock and the door shall be opened, seek and you shall find. Read Romans for the theology, Mark for the greatest story ever told, and Proverbs to see that humans have been this way forever. Keep digging!
>>77693967
Eastern Catholics can be married, as can Anglican priests who convert to the RC and were already married. Celibacy is a discipline that can be lifted, not fundamental dogma
>>77694416
There is no Church teaching that a Pope could cease to be Pope by saying heresy, it was a personal opinion by St. Robert Bellarmine that anyone is free to disagree with. A better view, I think, is that a heretical Pope is illicit (i.e. its a very bad situation) but the Pope is still a valid pope (he's still pope, he can make administrative decisions, etc). Even if the Pope was a heretic, who has authority to call him out? An ecumenical council or a large chunk of the college of cardinal might, but not random laypeople on the internet
>>77698371
>who has authority to call him out? An ecumenical council or a large chunk of the college of cardinal might, but not random laypeople on the internet
Well said. Especially since there is so much media bias portraying Francis as the some kind of Marxist. For example..
>Pope says gay marriage is from satan
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/pope-francis-same-sex-marriage-move-father-lies-total-rejection-gods-law
>Pope Francis speaks against Gay adoption
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/12/pope-francis-shocked-by-gay-adoption-urges-bishop-to-speak-against-it-boldly/
>Compares trans rights to nuclear arms race
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/pope-francis-compares-arguments-for-transgender-rights-to-nuclear-arms-race-10061223.html
>Pope Francis says that there's no salvation outside the Church
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2013/06/03/pope-francis-is-under-attack-for-saying-that-outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation-its-a-poke-in-the-eye-says-one-presbyterian-why-hes-wrong/
>He excommunicates an Australian priest supporting gay marriage and women clergy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/24/pope-francis-excommunicates-priest-greg-reynolds_n_3983059.html
>Pope Francis is against gender theory and for traditional gender roles
http://ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/pope-francis-gender-theory-problem-not-solution
>Pope is against abortion
http://www.lifenews.com/2015/09/23/pope-francis-on-abortions-innocent-victims-its-wrong-to-look-the-other-way-or-remain-silent/
>He Encourages the use of force against ISIS
http://www.businessinsider.com/pope-francis-endorses-use-of-force-against-isis-in-iraq-2014-8
>The Pope is misquoted often
http://www.christianpost.com/buzzvine/7-times-pope-francis-was-misquoted-132679/
>The Pope Rebukes Communist Cross
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/bolivia/11729834/Pope-rebukes-Bolivias-President-Evo-Morales-for-gift-of-crucifix-mounted-on-hammer-and-sickle.html
>>77693870
>And, why would the Lord let you suffer if he loves you?
Jesus Christ suffered and died out of love for mankind. In that he is God, his suffering is a special kind(redemptive). But suffering and sacrifice is the true face of love. It's easy to love when it doesn't take anything away from you, but loving when it's hard and requires you to sacrifice (your time, your energy, your way of doing things, etc etc), loving with sacrifice to the point of suffering is the truest form of love there is.
>>77693717
Because I'm confident my practice is obedient to scripture
>>77698711
>The Pope is misquoted often
Now that was an interesting read. Maybe he's not THAT heretic.
>>77699729
He's not heretic at all, friend :)
My fathers always wore a cross, even though he never was a man of faith. I ordered my own cross right now, and I sure feel great about it.
>>77697641
That was Luther's goal but secular politicians got involved and the Pope excommunicate dhim.
>>77694374
>>77694650
>>77696387
>>77697749
>>77697791
>>77699080
Thanks to you all. I'll do my research on my own for now, and surely buy a Bible, is there any edition/version better than another ? There are so much types of Christians.
>>77693870
reasonablefaith.org
check the FAQ and buy the book.
>>77700718
You are always on point with a King James Bible.
>>77685512
Stupid kid.
Thread theme
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJODxvgkfE0
>>77700718
http://www.drbo.org/
>>77700718
Try get an Orthodox Bible because other Bibles leave out books
>Orthodox: based as fuck
>Catholics: pretty much worship the pope, who is a Muslim loving faggot
>Protestant:SJW the religion
I am agnostic, but I always felt like Pope is just a liar and politician, and the Catholic church is rotten inside.Current Pope is the worst one in catholic history, IMO
>>77701412
What do you use for Septuagint ( I prefer to read in English to compare what I have until I learn koine greek )
>>77702038
english. i cant read other languages unfortunately :(
>>77695017
>The ultraconservatism and inflexibility of the faith is an underestimated factor that's hindering the modernization of countries such as Russia and Greece. Until Orthodox Christianity takes steps toward the rest of the Christian world and starts relaxing its harsh dogmatism, these nations will continue to feel the pull of their distant past.
that style of patronising attitude doesnt seem like what a fellow christian would write. or anything like a person who wants the good of christendom. it seems like a biased person pushing some sort of agenda. somethings really odd about it but i cant quite put my finger on it
>>77702270
What versions dude, that\s what I asked.
For English for example I've tried lots of versions, undoubtedly kjv is the standard ( new testament wise ) for all English speaking people.
But it's pretty annoying for me, and modern language versions just broke some meanings.
The best new testament in English right now ( which is better than official Romanian translation ) - is EOB - Eastern / Orthodox Bible
- it's based entirely on Patriarchal text from 1904/14 - the official new testament old greek text right now, with the seal of Constantinople patriarchate.
It also used majority text, textus receptus and critical text - to give in comments the different versions available for some verses.
For old testament, the best one I found right now is:
http://orthodoxengland.org.uk/zot.htm
the one here which is a very good translation of official old Greek text used in Greek speaking churches - has the seal of the Greek Church.
It translates this:
http://www.apostoliki-diakonia.gr/bible/bible.asp?contents=old_testament/contents.asp&main=OldTes
^ which on its own is a Alfred Ralph text - corrected by an orthodox commission - which used Holy Tradition and Liturgy texts to fix it up.
I also check NETS - from time to time to clarify some verses, it's a recent English translation of Septuagint, based on latest scrolls findings and developments.
>>77695018
>non-denominational church
is that what protestants call their sects these days?
>>77703219
Nah, usually the cults do that, although community church is different
someone post some of your favorite religious songs
starting with the GOAT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9IfHDi-2EA
Feelin the pull on muh dik get cucked.
Anyone going to Vespers tonight?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-Ztlpf_IKQ
So why are you not an orthodox christian yet?
Why did God send only one prophet, and at that time ? Why not earlier ? And why doesn't we have another one ? Sorry if that seems obvious to you.
>>77706243
Uncommon
>>77699887
Of course he couldn't do anything to make you think he was anyways, so this is a hollow statement
Can Christ Gen maybe help me?
As I get older, thinking about life and how I've lived it, mortality, and the state of my life, I've been having an internal desire to come to Christ. I have no rational explanation other than that signs have been pointing me that way.
>saw a group of fit healthy happy park rangers grabbing lunch and the cashier asked him how he was and said "I'm blessed" and it made me feel
>had a dream about contacting an alien race and they said they also believe in Christ on their planet
>Bought a new car and it was tuned to a Christian radio station
I just don't know how to make this transition in my life. I've always been such a rational person and there are just so many things in the Bible I can never take seriously or believe. I think most of it is metaphorical, but I think the overall message is right.
What sect of Christianity is right for me? How do I transition? I would feel so strange suddenly converting. I've never been an overly passionate person and I would feel so strange coming out to my girlfriend and family that I was going to church. I would feel uncomfortable talking about it to friends and family. Not ashamed, but uncomfortable.
Is it possible to privately practice? Should I do it, how do I do it? Can some Christ bro point me in the right direction? I am totally lost in life desu.
>>77692375
>We should lament that there is not more unity with Orthodox bros.
No, unity in this sort of thing is bad. Lack of unity leading to its prevention it is what makes the Orthodox Church so great.
Unity is important for acting in God's will, and we'll have it then
>>77711293
Read Romans 1
John 3
Romans 10
It will tell you what you must do to be saved
>>77711293
I'll try to tackle a few of your points.
>I have no rational explanation other than that signs have been pointing me that way.
It was the exact same with me. I just had a stern thinking and somehow thought that maybe Christianity was the solution, turned out to be true.
>there are just so many things in the Bible I can never take seriously or believe.
Me neither, but the Bible isn't to be taken literally. It's a book of guidance, not a story told by your mailman.
>Is it possible to privately practice?
Of course. If you struggle to find the right branch of Christianity, just attend different masses. Nobody will bother you and you can see if it's really for you. You don't need to tell people, just go out and be there. Religion is a private matter, no need to shout and scream it out to the world.
>>77711506
>>77712116
Thank you bros. I'm coming to accept Christ as my savior. I hope it helps enrich my life, and subsequently the lives of those around me.
>>77712116
It's called presupositions, a naturalist presuposes that only the natural exists, but since I believe in an omnipotent being, the things in the bible don't seem impossible to me
>>77712348
That's great, :)
>>77711293
Yeah, it's possible to practice privately. God is everywhere, not just in church. It's still good to go to church if you can though
I'd recommend that you read the Gospels to start out with if you're curious, it's the first four books of the New Testament.
I know what you mean about thinking the bible is metaphorical. Jesus even told stories to illustrate points so that would follow the same theme. But for me, I think most of the bible is literal unless otherwise stated, but still a few things are probably metaphorical. Just think how crazy life is and how little we really know. If you suspend disbelief for a little bit, you'll realize this isn't really that crazy or less possible than anything else really
Anyways, God bless. Hope you find your way bro :)
Praise God my brothers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UcXwaMIWbQ&
>>77712534
Thank you so much. How do I pick a denomination? Does it matter which one I pick? Is there a "right" one?
>>77713045
>denomination
That's the golden question. You'd have to attend mass and see for yourself. There are many people who change denomination over time, since they dislike the way their respective church is going.
>>77713045
I'm a Reformed Baptist, so I kinda have to recommend that, but here's some advice
http://carm.org/look-for-in-a-church
>>77691774
Is the British Orthodox Church legitimate, or heretical?
>>77713830
Not biblical, but that is a different story
>>77702723
Leonid Bershidsky is a Bloomberg View columnist. He is a BERLIN-BASED writer, author of three novels and two nonfiction books. Bershidsky was the founding editor of Russia's top business daily, Vedomosti, a joint project of Financial Times and the Wall Street Journal, and the first publisher of the Russian edition of Forbes. He also founded the opinion website Slon.ru; ran the business book arm of Russia's biggest book publisher, Eksmo; and worked as managing director at KIT Finance investment bank. He has an MBA from Insead in Fontainebleau, France.
He has been corrupted by the Eternal Kraut.
I'm an unbaptized heathen, and I want to go to church. But, in order to be baptized you kind of need to try to be involved in the "community" first, and find a god parent etc.
I'm socially retarded neet and I think everyone is going to judge me, and ask like "what do you do for a living" and shit. It's preventing me from going to church.
What should I do?
>>77715875
I'm in the same boat kind of. I want to go and be baptized but I keep putting it off. I know that everyone will know I'm the new guy at the church and will feel like everyone's staring at me and judging me
I used to go to church sometimes when I lived somewhere else though and most people are genuinely kind and accepting, just explain your situation to them as honestly as you can or feel comfortable with. They won't shun you or anything, they'll be happy you made it. Also talk to the pastor about your desire to be baptized, just fight through the anxiety and whatever, it'll be worth it. I just need to follow my own advice too lol
>>77693570
I kinda disagree. Sure it might not be literally in a verse but context also matters a lot. On homosexuals. Every sin we are supposed to help the person better themselves and there are alot of examples of someone doing just that and going to heaven. (Best example is the thief that hung next to Christ.
Exept homosexuals. They are wiped off the map with fire and brimstone and Lot's wife got turned into a pillar of salt, just for looking back (caring for what happend to them).
I don't know. It is pretty obvious that God has a special hatred for fags.
Don't forget, fags are God-haters according to Romans 1:30. And therefore:
>Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.
2nd Chronicles 19:2 clearly started that if you love the people that hate the Lord, you will receive the wrath of the Lord.
what do you guys think?
So many people turning their backs on the hero of the second world war.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiDjQL9e3PE
>>77693870
You have got alot of replies lately but I want to share something about your first question because that was the exact question why it took so long for me to conver.
Think about it like this.
The goal is to love God. God wants us to love Him. Will you every truly love Him if you know 100% that He is real? No. If there was a computer that could read your DNA and show you the most perfect match for you on this earth to marry, would you instantly love her that very second? No.
Love is faith based, if it were evidence-based you wouldn't truly love God, you would just accept that He is real.
You love people right now, do you have evidence that that love is real? You could say: "I love my parents!" and if I asked you for proof you wouldn't be able to give any. That doesn't make the love less real.
I've probably not put it perfectly but think about it for a while.
God bless.
>>77679258
Christianity is shit-tier faggotry. I shall enjoy watching the filthy Moslem niggers cut off each and every one of your heads. There is only one god and the almighty dollar is his profit.
>>77679258
so i'm an eastern orthodox christian, but i've never truly learned about my religion other than what is in the bible (like a very passive glossover), where can i learn about my religion indepth? any books you guys recommend?
>>77693870
also
>What do you think about Islam?
It is based around a Prophet who wasn't prophesied, he did no miracles to show he was one (only one but the only witness was a donkey since he did it at night). And when he died he left no prophesy. How can he be a Prophet?
I think he met with satan, pretending to be an angle that day. That angel told him to change the Scriptures even though the Bible clearly states that no one should ever do that.
It was either a ruse to get an army and the dumb peasants bought it, or the work of Satan to get a worldly army to fight the Christians.
>>77717871
I like this website and podcasts.
http://www.ancientfaith.com/
What's up my protestant brethren
What's your favorite translation of the bible?
I really like the RSV, it's a shame it went out of print in favor of the NRSV.
I've narrowed my denomination choices down to Anglican, LCMS, and Orthodox. Any reasoning for or against either of those?
>>77719934
As a Catholic, I have to ask why you ruled out my denomination.
>>77719210
for reading/studying: NET/NASB
for memorization: KJV
for giggles: pic related
http://www.pidginbible.org/Concindex.html
>>77719934
Why is Baptist not on your list? Just curious.
>>77717410
Thank you. It is more or less of a "that's it" reponse, but I kind of understand it better, thanks.
>>77717880
So do you think that because Mahomet did this because of Satan, the Muslims should be punished ? Or do you think it is worth it, for they will go to hell after their death ?
>>77720797
It is not worth it*
>>77679258
Member of the Church of Antioch here.
Thank God our Patriarch John X refused to give in to Constantinople's globalist agenda.
>muh dark ages
>>77679258
Get fucked liberal scum. Fuck that was beautiful to read. "Bad Orthodox, goy! Why won't you become modern degenerates like everyone else?"
>>77717871
The Orthodox Church by Met. Kallistos (Timothy) Ware
>>77719934
Orthodox is the only one of those with apostolic succession.
>>77695017
>hindering the modernization of countries such as Russia and Greece
THANK GOD
This moron needs to try living in a country where Protestantism has run roughshod for centuries, if he thinks modernism is so great.
>>77720258
I don't agree with the popes decisions on Islam, refugees, and same sex marriage.
>>77720745
I know nothing about baptists.
>>77719934
Anglo-catholics have a beautiful liturgy. Lutherans are heretics.
Orthodox is very neat but very ethnically divided. Might be awkward if you're not a slav or greek.
Another option instead of Anglican is, a prior Anglican parish that has been accepted into communion with the Catholic church. They retain their unique liturgy.
>>77679258
>(((Bershidsky)))
>>77721280
Pope Francis is vehemently against same sex marriage. Are you for it or something or do you not know his position.
As for the Islam-refugee thing, it's the old man's dedication to charity. Very admirable in my opinion, but I can understand why racists and xenophobes would hate it.
why do you believe christianity is true?
only proofs nothing else
>>77689150
>>77689371
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
-Jesus Christ
>>77722504
i heard that the eye of a needle was a jerusalem gate which was half way open so camels needed to lower themselves to get through
is it just a meme?
>>77722222
nice digits
>>77722305
>Very admirable in my opinion, but I can understand why racists and xenophobes would hate it.
He's from Argentinia and doesn't know what havoc Islam can actually bring.
>>77721320
we're the people that those who use the term "bible belt" are crying about.
>>77722631
Yes, that is just an attempt to justify not helping anyone with personal wealth and instead just sitting on it.
I have a question, isn't Christianity the best religion because it's the one Jesus came up with, and it's the religion most related to the first one?
>>77722504
Bishops don't legally own anything. They live in housing provided by the church, they do the church's business pretty much 24/7, and when they die all their possessions go back to the church, to be used by the next bishop who takes his place.
Is seventh day adventism a cult?
>>77723379
Yes. It is based on the Arian heresy.
>>77723438
>Arian heresy.
They don't believe in the trinity?
>>77722482
answer bros
>>77721409
Anglicans do not have apostolic succession, due to their acceptance of female clergy. Anglicans are protestants with fancy rituals, but they are nonetheless protestants.
>Orthodox is very neat but very ethnically divided. Might be awkward if you're not a slav or greek.
We are not ethnically "divided," the church is administrated along the lines of historical regions. Every international church is like that.
I came into Orthodoxy through a parish that was 75% Syrian, and they were the nicest people I've ever met. It's only awkward if you make it awkward.
>>77723670
No, and they do not believe in Christ's divinity either.
>>77722482
Because Christ is risen.
>>77717634
Well you can't buy your way into heaven
>>77721320
Would you like to learn :)
Bless you brothers and sisters
>>77723786
>Orthodoxy
Nearly all orthodox churches around here are russian to the heart. If I, a german man, would walk into there and be part of it, I'd have a hard time. They like to be by themselves.
>>77679258
Orthodox is the one true church after all!
>>77721320
http://www.sbc.net/bfm2000/bfm2000.asp
Baptist Christianity is pretty basic, but still based. You gotta choose the right church to join though, because they each have a different philosophy.
>>77724404
Southern or Refomed are pretty Good
>>77724478
Southern Baptist is true American Christianity imo
>>77724645
Very Blue collar conservative, I'm Reformed but I attend a southern Baptist church, the most true American people in the world.
Could someone give me some links to arguments against Orthodoxy from Catholic perspective? I've already found some website and pastebin aganst Catholics from Orthodox perspective and I would like to compera them.
>>77679258
Why are the protestants the worst? literally a bunch of kids playing with the Bible.
>>77679258
russia please invade and reform the roman church
>>77679258
>Orthodox Church stays in dark ages
Your damn right. How can you claim to preserve the sanctity of your church if you don't purge the heretics?
>>77725105
Elaborate
The Bible is the word of God, we follow it over a man with a funny hat
>>77679258
>http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/illusions-gone-im-leaving-russia/502173.html
>"my Jewish ethnicity"
(((Leonid Bershidsky)))
post some music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2glsYv6-sxg
>>77723885
yes a very strong historical case can be made for Christ’s resurrection but that’s not a good enough proof that would convince somebody
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_B4HkbZUTI
again
CHRISTBROS GIVE CONVINCING REASONS WHY YOU BELIEVE IN CHRISTIANITY
>>77722482
I'm not so sure myself, it's just something you feel.
>tfw have been fedora'd for years and am starting to lapse back into believing
It's like a part of me wants to believe but there's no way I'd go back to Catholicism, it seems too cucked plus I flat out dislike the current Pope.
>>77726080
>CHRISTBROS GIVE CONVINCING REASONS WHY YOU BELIEVE IN CHRISTIANITY
Do I look like someone from jehovah's witnesses? No need to push my faith on others.
>>77700733
OCA SHILL GET OUT. ROCOR IS BEST COR REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
whats the go with alcohol? i know one catholic who drinks like a sailor, another who only drinks at celebrations/parties and another who never drinks. they all seem to have varying opinions on it too.
>>77726848
Monks were the ones who introduced beer in Germany. I guess they're okay with it.
To all of the Christians in here:
What are your thoughts on sexuality? Things such as promiscuity, homosexuality, masturbation, lustful clothing, etc.
Can anyone recommend a good church near my zip (95691). I'm white and of British and German descent, so idk if I would stand out at an Eastern Orthodox Church.
>>77726848
well jesus literally turned water in to wine so it’s not bad to drink alcohol
however it’s pretty clear that drunkards are not going to heaven
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who submit to nor perform homosexual acts, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
>>77727182
>Things such as promiscuity, homosexuality, masturbation, lustful clothing, etc.
I don't support gay marriage. You can't really turn a gay man straight, so it's live at let live on that matter. As for masturbation, I am as much of a sinner as many other men. Sexual power should be used to have sex with one's spouse, so that's that. Lustful clothing is just stupid and shouldn't be encouraged as it is.
>>77679863
Holy shit, who told you that?
>>77724158
The local Greek churches here have Romanian, Russian, Chinese and even black members. They are treated pretty weird (especially Chinese and blacks) but mostly in the sense that nobody expects them to take the faith seriously or learn Greek. But they all learn Greek and a Chinese guy even learnt koine.
Idk why Russians and Romanians attend Greek orthodox churches we have Romanian and Russian churches here. There are only a couple who do though that I'm aware of.
I don't think Russians would be much worse especially for a white person.
>>77727182
They're all sinful. But we live in a secular society, so I don't think it would be right for me to force my ideals on others.
>>77727182
Sexual activity is meant for a man and woman who are in love/marriage. Anything outside of that is lustful. Threesomes, orgies, hookups, etc. are degenerate.
Homosexuality is sinful, but there is debate as to whether or not it is an instant one-way ticket to hell.
Masturbation is a little sinful, but not as much as people make it out to be. Keep it to a minimum and repent.
Pornography is sinful and degenerate. Gay/Lesbian porn even more so.
>>77726647
kek
>>77724158
They might find it curious, they might ask some insensitive questions ("you're not Russian, why would you come here?") but they won't be hostile.
It's a small price to pay. 1900 years ago only members of the local congregation were even allowed to attend the worship. Converts had to make their decision before they even witnessed it.
I wish to win the lottery to fulfill my dream of opening a christian school for all ages, in order to battle the wrongs of our time.
>>77679258
Sorry I'm late to the party.
>>77727182
I don't support Gay Marriage. Marriage is a religious binding between a Man and a Woman and should be kept sacred. That's aside from my thoughts on gays as a whole;
I do not have a problem with gays as it's not their fault they have a certain sexual orientation that they have a reasonable explanation for. Transexuals however have LITERALLY associated their degenerate fetish with apart of their self being and are trying to push that it's socially acceptable to be the way they are when it's really not.
Lustful clothing is pure degeneracy and heresy.
Masturbation is fine if you can keep control of your tendencies and not fap 5 times a day.
>>77727822
That's why Christianity is losing and Islam wining.
>>77728779
>I do not have a problem with gays as it's not their fault they have a certain sexual orientation that they have a reasonable explanation for. Transexuals however have LITERALLY associated their degenerate fetish with apart of their self being and are trying to push that it's socially acceptable to be the way they are when it's really not.
I don't understand distinction beetwen trans and gays. Being trans is also not a free choice. But "changing" gender and homosexual acts are.
>>77720797
Here is an Orthodox FAQ and reading list if you're interested: http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x
>>77729639
>http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x
Too bad catholics don't have something like this. I'm intrested in catholicism and orthodoxy and I can't decide which one is better.
My question from earlier>>77725052
>>77691774
if he is a legit catholic I dont think he will be rebaptised I think they just do some confirmation dealy if your paperwork checks out
>>77729973
Catholics aren't that judgemental toward Orthodoxy.
>>77729639
Thanks. Are the memes about Catholics and Protestants true ? It's mostly because of them that I would prefer to be an Orthodox.
>>77730361
Depends on what memes you have heard.
>>77730220
That's a funny thing. Catholics say that Orthodoxy is the same church (even if they don't share some dogma especially the pope dogma), but Orthodoxs say Catholicism is a heresy.
>>77691774
You can only be baptized once though.
Any trinitarian baptism is valid, doesn't have to be orthodox or catholic, but can't be mormon or any non-trinity branches.
>>77730472
Catholics = "cucks" muslims lover. Too much in their utopia of "peace & love and everything will be good". And that their Pope is a pussy.
>>77725248
Jordanville. Nice.
>>77727182
Sinful and degenerate
>>77730884
I guess that's more of a generalization. Of course there are catholics who aid the invaders, but I doubt it's a common trend. As for the Pope, I think it's a double-edged sword. He is misquoted often, leading to the image of a destructive man. On the other hand he does have some uncommon things done that justify the critic.
>>77727822
I have no problem with certain regulations on it, but we don't have to go OT on them
>>77730884
I think Marion would disagree. I don't get it why every christian here go mad with pope francis atittude toward muslims. There'are after all people and they even share more common values with christian than the current secular west.
>>77730645
Catholics started saying that with Vatican II.
>>77730361
Many of them are, yeah. The Catholic Church, for instance, burned a lot of people for heresy (unlike the Orthodox Church). But others are twisted, like the sex abuse: Catholic sex abuse is not particularly high at all, the major issue with that is the cover up.
As for Protestants, I think Martin Luther was an extremely wicked guy, and Protestantism is whack interpretation of the Bible that didn't exist until the Reformation. We still feel they are heretics, and my priest overtly referred to them as that last Sunday in his homily (sermon). They innovate beliefs and gut the expectations of the Christian lifestyle.
>>77730645
they should have realized they are wrong after suffering the Turks and Communism.
>>77730884
Here are some things from Vatican II
>The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
-Nostra aetate
>But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind.
-Lumen gentium
Pic related is Pope John Paul II (a Catholic saint) kissing the Quran
>On 6 May 2001 he became the first Catholic pope to enter and pray in a mosque, namely the Umayyad Mosque in Damascus, Syria. Respectfully removing his shoes, he entered the former Byzantine era Christian church dedicated to John the Baptist, who is also revered as a prophet of Islam. He gave a speech including the statement: "For all the times that Muslims and Christians have offended one another, we need to seek forgiveness from the Almighty and to offer each other forgiveness."[92] He kissed the Qur'an in Syria, an act that made him popular among Muslims but that disturbed many Catholics.[186]
>>77731511
>burned a lot of people for heresy (unlike the Orthodox Church
Orhodox Church was better. He (or he let the authorities, cuz orthodox are not so independent like Catholic Church_ persecuted people who didin't accept some liturgical changes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raskol
>>77730647
Protestant and orthodox both rebaptize converts.
If I've been baptized in an Anglican church before and I wish to convert to Othrodox, need I get baptized again at an Othrodox church?
>>77731964
Yeah, and the Patriarch who did that was defrocked and essentially put in prison
>>77679258
>>>/his/
This has nothing to do with politics
Go be a newfag somewhere else
>>77679258
>>77731949
Kay I'm not going to go to RCIA afterall.
Is Bill Maher the hero we need?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un935p14Hvo
>>77701877
I agree. I'm Catholic and my favorite pope to date is Pope John Paul the 2nd. He was pretty based.
>>77731511
>Protestantism is whack interpretation of the Bible that didn't exist until the Reformation
like what?
i bet there isn't one protestant stance that wasn't held by at least one early church father.
>>77732284
Protestants deny all 7 sacraments.
>>77731976
Baptist believe that a precondition of Baptism is a profession of faith, infants can't do that.
>>77732042
It's up to your bishop. We don't recognize baptism outside the Church, but once you are received, generally your bishop validates your previously baptism--he can order rebaptism, but that's seldom done unless your baptism was non-Trinitarian or something.
>>77729612
No.
Transexuality is a fad that is arising because of leftist and marxist propaganda being pushed to dismantle Western civilization. It's degeneracy in its purest form.
>>77732379
Only 5
We still do Baptism and Lords supper
Marriage is more of a ceremony than a sacrament
>>77732410
Thanks.
>>77732042
No they accept all Trinitarian baptisms.
>>77731218
Oh, ok. I only saw the photos of him kissing Muslims feets.
>>77731507
In a time of war with Islamism, we can't let hords of people coming in your country, that's what Poland does, and what Marion is planing to do, too.
>>77731949
Wow.
>>77732498
>We still do Baptism and Lords supper
Many Protestants do those, but don't really see them as sacramental, just as earthly rituals.
>>77717634
Are you athiest or what?
>>77732097
Yes he was, but
>after the church sobor in 1666–67, which had anathemized the defenders of the old faith as heretics and made decisions with regards to their punishment
Also don't fall for "inquisition killed gorillion people in tortures" meme
>>77732646
I'm a Baptist, we consider both Believers Baptism and The Lord Supper/ communion as a sacrament
>>77732498
Grape juice and a cracker, no blessing, that's not sacramental. You treat it like a symbolic gesture instead of a Holy Mystery. It's an abomination.
>>77732854
So are you saying the bible doesn't use symbols?
John 10
>>77732561
Muslims were quite all right in Syria and Iraq before Amerifatcs came in. I also don't think we should let them in, but mostly becouse we can help more of them (mostly women and children) by sending money and building refugees camps in Syria (with military protections)
>>77692535
>Alethos anesti
>>77694198
that's not the greek number anything.
Literally what
>>77732956
Did Jesus say it was symbolic? No He did not.
53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed,[h] and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”
>>77693870
ill give one answer, since the other replies have covered your questions pretty well
man's free will happens indiscriminately, no matter the influence. you choose, it's in Genesis. we rule the earth, we decide what we do. it's the thing that explains everything. any direct divine intervention would break this rule. God doesn't break his own rules. that's why faith is so neccessary. good luck
>>77732769
You consider communion merely a remembrance. You define a Sacrament as a ritual Jesus passed down, but afaik you don't think there is something mystical that happens when you do it, like Lutherans do,
>>77732417
There were some gender dysporia before XXIst century. Look at India( hijra), and Natives Americans (two spirit). It's still a mental illnes though, just like homosexuality.
>>77731964
yeah, Raskol was pretty bad man. and over such minor changes too. very sad. I feels deep for old believers
>>77732716
That punishment was mostly exile, not burning or torture. The burning and torture of the Raskol beyond Nihkon was mostly done by themselves to themselves because they thought it was spiritual.
>>77733120
i'm not well versed in this woowoo stuff, but i think it's greek gematria.
f looks wrong but maybe there's different greek f's
>>77679258
> Catholic
> Christian
>>77733168
http://carm.org/transubstantiation
>>77733217
Define mystical, I felt some power in taking communion.
>>77733244
Old Believers today are pretty much like an Eastern version of the Amish, but back then they were dangerous fanatics who would burn themselves with the families (children included) out of the belief it would cleanse them of sins. They promoted whipping yourself and all that jazz.
The Patriarch who caused the schism was rightfully defrocked, but there is a reason why old believers were seen as so dangerous compared to the countless other heretical movements that arose in Russia over the centuries
>>77733617
That's a modern Catholic theory. We Orthodox believe the Eucharist has dual natures just as Christ was both fully God and fully man. It is a mystery, not one that can be explained with big words.
>>77733742
I mean a spiritual event that only that Sacrament provides.
>>77733439
The punishmets ordered by the Inquisition was mostly penance. Let's look deeper why there was so many heresies in the West. Becouse catholic theologian was also a philosopher. That's why we philosophy in Europe was 90% western. Orthodox just did nothing. To the other persecutions, lets be honest, they allowed to took care of that by civil powers.
>>77733617
I'm not Catholic but I had to laugh at this
>Sixth--the Roman Catholic view is a violation of Levitical law
We Christians are not bound to ancient Mosaic law. Whoever wrote this is a Judaizer, into the trash it goes.
>>77720797
We should always refrain from punishing and try to convert them. If they won't convert God will punish them in this life and the next.
>>77734205
No, the vast majority of heresies in Russia experienced little to no persecution. And there were some seriously ones, if you care to read Florovsky's "Ways of Russian Theology" (which is essentially a history of the Russian Church), you'll see there were quite a few.
The inquisition killed thousands of people.,
>>77734205
Also, shifting from digging up old mudflinging, I'd like to look at the theology here: the Catholic Church looked at penance very juridically--like a punishment, as you just said, and this ties in with Purgatory theology. For us, penance was never, ever about punishment, which is why we didn't have penance manuals, each priest prescribed according to the context; to us, penance is, and only is, medicine to heal the ontological damage caused by sin. If it were punishment, then how could the sins be considered forgiven? Forgiveness means no punishment.
>>77679258
What happened on Vatican II that /pol/ detests this much?
>>77735105
>>77731949
This
As well as the recognition of baptism outside the Church
A number of other things too, like the conception of "anonymous Christian" being approved.
if you want a good book on the massive shift Vatican II caused in Catholic theology, see "The Ecclesiological Renovation of Vatican II: An Orthodox Examination of Rome's Ecumenical Theology Regarding Baptism and the Church"
>>77733239
At least homosexuality makes sense.
Thinking you're a girl trapped in the body of a man? Well alright that's okay as long as you keep it to you- OOOH WAIT.
They don't keep it to themselves. They become a walking talking sex object while forcing it down people's throats.
>>77734487
I'm guessing you're not Orthodox
>>77734304
You still have to answer the fact that it was instituted prior to Jesus spilling his Blood
>>77734041
>dual natures
To be precise, we don't even say that, we don't claim to know anything about the Eucharist except what Chris himself said about it.
>>77734534
Like I said, maybe there was no real heresies, becouse there were poor intelectuals in the East.
>The inquisition killed thousands of people.,
Death sentences were about ~1-2% (some of them in absentia).
>medicine
A healing drug can be on prescription. It's just a way to admit you were wrong and start treatment.
>>77734041
So the trinity then?
>>77735547
Orthodox hate Muslims so much, they deny their conversions. At least in Turkey I hear. That's why Protestantism is so popular over there.
Can't blame them though but Turks should at least look into Catholicism.
>>77735443
>At least homosexuality makes sense.
???????
>They become a walking talking sex object while forcing it down people's throats
>but homosexuals "are doing it in privacy" meme"
>>77735641
Eating blood is prohibited for two reasons.
1. Sanitary concerns.
2. Eating blood with flesh constitutes communion, because you are partaking of the very life. We're not supposed to commune with animals, obviously, or anything at all except Christ.
3. Eating blood, apart from Communion, is still prohibited int he New Covenant (Acts 15:20). While the Catholic Church says this doesn't matter, the Orthodox Church to this day prohibits eating blood except in Communion, because it constitutes the communing with a living creature (but obviously we aren't like Jehovah's Witnesses and don't allow blood transfusions--we aren't autistic)
>>77732109
>1
>post
>from
>this
>ID
>>77735719
>maybe there was no real heresies,
No, there were very real heresies, and many of them, please re-read my post
>Death sentences were about ~1-2%
In this case, thousands.
>It's just a way to admit you were wrong and start treatment.
Yeah, but it's not punishment.
>>77735641
So what? He knew He was going to die. And the Apostles carried on the tradition to the Church.
Acts 2:42 They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.
>>77726080
it's for your own good, it's not something you comprehend, it's something you just know
>>77735682
Right let me rephrase that- just as it is a mystery on how Jesus can be both fully God and fully man, it is a mystery on how bread and wine can be the body and blood of Christ.
>>77735769
>Orthodox hate Muslims so much, they deny their conversions. At least in Turkey I hear
You're wrong. We have martyr saints in our Church who were killed by the Turks for converting, and a patriarch who was put to death for converting a Turk (Jews snitched on him to the Ottoman government).
>>77679258
Really pains me to say it but Bartholomew is just a tool of the Turkish state and they're ordering him to make nice with other Christians groups as another front in the war to warm their way into the EU (and then Islamize it of course).
Of course it's not unorthodox of me to say this. Lots of hierarchy have been corrupt and heretics, the Orthodox Church (unlike the Roman church) isn't run by one man and doesn't depend on any man.
The orthodox Christian people THEMSELVES acting through the Holy Spirit within them are the guardians of the faith.
Happened before when corrupt church hierarchy tried to unite with Roman church for political reasons at council of Florence
BTFO by orthodox lay people.
We don't have a pope and Bartholomew is never going to trick us into thinking he's our pope!
>>77736177
>No, there were very real heresies, and many of them, please re-read my post
Ok, I have to belive by word becouse I don't know this book.
>In this case, thousands.
Through hundres of years
>Yeah, but it's not punishment.
So how the confession looks like in Orthodoxy?
"You should do this and this" but it's not really necessery if you don't want to."?
Also why Orthodos require to re-baptise?
>>77735745
https://youtu.be/bNNy39I5YuI
>>77690107
By irrelevant I assume you mean bulwark of Christendom in Russia? Maybe last based country on earth?
>>77736592
>Bartholomew is just a tool of the Turkish state
Naw, he's a tool of America. They all have been since Athenagoras.
Russian orthodox is the only orthodox orthodox.
>>77690896
Go to an Orthodox Church, In your area I suggest an OCA parish if possible or ROCOR or Antiochian or worse comes to worse Greek.
Find one that has services in English and a high percentage of converts. Almost all will have inquirors class and can guide you from there.
Best decision you'll make
>>77736674
>Also why Orthodos require to re-baptise?
You're not unless you had a non Trinitarian baptism. We recognize one baptism as we say in the Creed. We know where the Holy Spirit is but don't know where it isn't. To claim a monopoly on the Holy Spirit is heresy.
>>77694198
The Greek number is ΧΞΣ.
The symbol above the ξ is wrong. It is called περισπομένη and goes only to vowels. Also the "up full stop" has nothing to do with the number. Where did you get that?
>>77736304
Yes but is blood wasn't spilt yet, so it could not have been his blood then
>>77736674
My wife was baptized Catholic and not rebaptised.
As long as you have been baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity you shouldn't be rebaptised.
>>77736674
>So how the confession looks like in Orthodoxy?
It's face-to-face counseling over how you are coping with your sins, what's driving you to them, how you can avoid them, and so on, as well as kneeling for an icon and confessing your sins. The penance is prescribed to deal the damage you've done to yourself through sin, if you don't do it, then your damage won't be healed. God could forgive in the old testament, but Christ allows cleansing of sickness.
The Orthodox Church has been the protector of truth for 2000 years, and now it is becoming the sole protector of tradition and family values. We need to get a lot more people to rally behind it, at least until the Catholics get their shit together.
>>77736592
>they're ordering him to make nice with other Christians groups as another front in the war to warm their way into the EU (and then Islamize it of course)
Somebody has been pulling your leg, the council was only supposed to be 10 days long and basically nothing of any major importance was going to be discussed. They weren't even planning on bringing up the calendar and all these people think it was going to be Vatican II give me a break.
>>77736674
>Also why Orthodos require to re-baptise?
You don't have to unless your bishop requires it.
Baptisms outside our Church are not valid, heretics cannot perform sacraments. We don't generally require repbaptism, the bishop validates your previously invalid baptism--but he doesn't have to do that, he can just say, "be baptized".
>>77735954
Let me specify here;
The homosexuals that walk and talk like normal human beings and not flamboyant sex monkeys are alright in my opinion. Just keep them the fuck away from Marriage.
>>77737107
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
>>77737344
"The Church's relation to the world" is where you have to look, the rest was just fluff.
>>77737381
And out clergy. They litreally have married gays as bishops in some churches it's disgusting.
>>77737448
So what? What's your point?
Catholic church=Western civilisation and one true church
but but catholic cucks etc..
>Pope says gay marriage is from satan
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/pope-francis-same-sex-marriage-move-father-lies-total-rejection-gods-law
>Pope Francis speaks against Gay adoption
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/12/pope-francis-shocked-by-gay-adoption-urges-bishop-to-speak-against-it-boldly/
>Compares trans rights to nuclear arms race
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/pope-francis-compares-arguments-for-transgender-rights-to-nuclear-arms-race-10061223.html
>Pope Francis says that there's no salvation outside the Church
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2013/06/03/pope-francis-is-under-attack-for-saying-that-outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation-its-a-poke-in-the-eye-says-one-presbyterian-why-hes-wrong/
>He excommunicates an Australian priest supporting gay marriage and women clergy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/24/pope-francis-excommunicates-priest-greg-reynolds_n_3983059.html
>Pope Francis is against gender theory and for traditional gender roles
http://ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/pope-francis-gender-theory-problem-not-solution
>Pope is against abortion
http://www.lifenews.com/2015/09/23/pope-francis-on-abortions-innocent-victims-its-wrong-to-look-the-other-way-or-remain-silent/
>He Encourages the use of force against ISIS
http://www.businessinsider.com/pope-francis-endorses-use-of-force-against-isis-in-iraq-2014-8
>Pope Francis is against lukewarm "faith"
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-off-the-cuff-to-priests-religious-indifference-makes-god-vomit-69700/
>The Pope is misquoted often
http://www.christianpost.com/buzzvine/7-times-pope-francis-was-misquoted-132679/
>The Pope Rebukes Communist Cross
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/bolivia/11729834/Pope-rebukes-Bolivias-President-Evo-Morales-for-gift-of-crucifix-mounted-on-hammer-and-sickle.html
>>77737358
What the fuck are you talking about you newfag non-Orthodox baptisms are accepted AS LONG AS you were baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. No bishop is just going to say "be baptized".
>>77737557
So its kind of dumb to say its impossible for Jesus to have had his on blood in the cup he was holding.
>>77737821
Than its kinda dumb to say God won't save everyone by that logic
>>77694198
The two crossed swords aren't a word or anything in arabic.
The name of allah is put sideways there, and in the name of is written in a specific calligraphic style there which is obviously designed to look like the greek letter.
>>77721320
I think baptists are the closest to orthodoxy theologically.
Growing up baptist I found lots and lots familiar in orthodoxy. Immersion, free will, no purgatory, no poplar infallbility, no immaculate conception, Mary generally not thought to have lived sinless, divorce and remarriage regretted and mourned but not outlawed, conservative sexual ethics, dignified services, on and on...
Some differences too obviously at the liturgical level in particular.
Personally I think the baptists (and conservative evangelicals in general, barring reformed) ended up trying to reconstruct something very like the true historical church (which they had no direct knowledge of) by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
But I'm afraid even the baptists have been infected with the same liberal rot as the rest now, even the SBC.
Orthodoxy is the last citadel for the God fearing who is ready to die rather than accept modernist atheism. Climb over the wall and help defend it.
>>77737217
As far as I remeber this is also exactly how the confession looks like in catholicism
.>>77736984
>>77737142
That's nice.
Ahhh I don't know. I would like to come back to christianity but can't decide to which one. Current pope is killing me, there are plenty of liberal modernist bishops in the western countries and still I feel ties with Catholicism, but Orthodoxy is maybe more coherent. Do you guys also have liberal modernist in Orthodoxy?
>>77737688
But kissing the feet of mudslimes. John paul kissing the quran etc.
Absolutely disgusting.
>>77737688
To every statement he made in those links, there can be found excactly opposite declamation.
>>77738235
There are liberal modernists in orthodoxy and especially in the nominal members of the congregation (having such a strong tie to many ethnic cultures nominalism is one of the BIGGEST problems in a lot of orthodox parishes).
But that's not where the church as a whole is headed and that's not what it stands for.
I've heard credible stories of priests literally being locked out of their churches by their own congregations for preaching heresy such as that Christ was a great moral teacher and that we should accept homosexual marriage.
God chooses still to work through humans and humans are flawed so even His church is flawed in a practical sense. But the gates of hell haven't prevailed against it and I think you can see that when you explore contemporary orthodoxy more than any other Christian group.
>>77739298
In Poland catholic priest and bishops are still based, but in Germany it's like Sodoma and Gomora. The pope is the mystery he cannot make a one clear statement, becouse the next day he could says something opposite. If the German church were independent like Orthodox churches are, they would go full heresy, but the Rome curia is still stoping them.
