Hey /pol/, long time lurker, one of the first time I've post. I've been thinking for a while now about the future, about idealogy. I was thinking about Christianity and Islam last night and realized something but I wanted some feedback.
As far as I'm aware, Muhammed was a white man, and in the Quran speaks specifically about how low blacks are. What if Islam originally contained a racial hierarchy?
That the reason the original white arabs (I know there is some disagreement about them being white or not but for the sake of argument let's go with they used to be at some point for now). The reason they went into Africa, was to utilize the blacks as food soldiers for conquest.
My question is this -> Could White nationalism, National Socialism, and Islam come together as an idealogy? If so what would it look like, how would it work, and would you support it? As far as I can tell, Muslims feel the same about Christians, the same way Christians feel about Jews -> They consider them an older people of the same religion but a new contract was forged with God
tl;dr -> Can Islam be combined with white nationalism and national socialism?
Also, because I'm very new to posting, I wasn't sure whether to add a picture or not, I know some people add erotic women but it seems those threads normally devolve into shit posting or porn threads. Some feed back on how to start a better post in the future would also be appreciated
I really should of proof read before posting, please excuse the typos
If I'm not mistaken the same word for black in Arabic is the same word for slave, and in one of the Hadith it stated very specifically to never even suggest Muhammed was black. The biggest issue that seems to be with Islam is that it's a foreign idealogy, but we can mutually respect it if it stays in it's own lands and pisses off from Europe.
That seems to be the idea I'm getting from some of the more objective /pol/ users - but at the same time, Islam seems to hold the values that we desire. Against degeneracy, it keeps women in a supportive state. I'm still reading about the in depth history about Islam, but it seems the pillars of praising towards mecca is more tradition than anything else
That the only reason that's in there is because of the idea that Muhammad ascended into paradise - I'm less sure about this part, but and the black cube sits atop something that came from a portal from paradise when he went there.
That's the background on my line of thinking
The Idea behind Christianity is that Jews were no longer following the laws laid fourth and a new covadent needed to be formed.
But the core lessons that seem to come from those are
Judaism - Self preservation
Christianity - Loving others as yourself
With Islam narrowing those two into
Islam - Preserve your community and people, but remain bound by the law, love them but be aware of your enemy
It also has a conquest rooted in so it's not suicidally altruistic like Christianity which I've found to be one of the major issues listed here
What if God introduced all three at different time periods intentionally to try and teach humanity lessons over time? That Islam is the next step? I know I might not get any serious reply's from this because of the literal shills coming fourth
But I really would like some serious reply's for anyone who has the time or input to give
>>70437834
Can Islam be combined with white nationalism?
No, Islam encourages unity of all races under one religion.
>Can Islam be combined with and national socialism?
No, because Islam destroys native cultures and customs/practices & replaces them with 13th century Arab culture & customs like stoning women accused of adultery, cutting off hands of thieves, etc.
>>70437834
nice try muhammed
>>70438544
But if I'm not mistaken Christianity seemed to encourage unity of all races in scripture but still acted historically to unite the whites of Europe against Islam
As mentioned, in the Quran it speaks negatively against blacks, and historically did build a sort of hierarchy
Would Islam lose it's appeal if the current model of Islam was undone for a racial one?
"Stoning women", "Cutting off hands"
Isn't more brutal punishment's exactly what people seem to want to reduce degeneracy though? I think it was your country or Indonesia which recently stated drug traffickers would be forced to consume their product until they die for example
The brutality of Islam seems to be exactly why it works so well. While the soft approach the west has taken since abandoning the roots is exactly the issue of why we're succumbing to cultural marxism
>>70437834
WTF???????
ISLAM NEVER TALKS ABOUT RACE
NO MAN IS GREATER THEN ANOTHER MAN EXCEPT OF PIETY AND GOOD DEEDS.
>>70437972
nope.
abd/amah= slave (male/female)
zengy= nigger.
Islam is supposed to promote equality for the most part between man and woman.
it is against some degeneracy such as homosexuality , bestiality...etc. basically anything which is not heterosexuality , even that was governed by strict marriage.
>>70438968
"Islam never talks about race"
Yes this is actually one of the reasons I find black Muslims or the nation of Islam to be so funny. They don't seem to realize this aspect of it
"The Legacy of Arab-Islam in Africa provides several examples of Islam’s hatred of Blacks. There is the example in the hadith in which an Ethiopian woman laments her racial inferiority to Muhammad, who consoles her by saying, "In Paradise, the whiteness of the Ethiopian will be seen over the stretch of a thousand years."
Another hadith quotes Muhammad thus: "Do not bring black into your pedigree."
the Arabic word for slave, “Abd,” became equated with Africans and Blacks with the advent of Islam.
Through Islamic scripture and historical context, the position of blacks in Arab societies and Islam was low
>>70437834
No, that's judaism
>>70438951
>As mentioned, in the Quran it speaks negatively against blacks, and historically did build a sort of hierarchy
???
>>70438970
"Islam is supposed to promote equality for the most part between man and woman"
Yes, but the definition of gender equality from the west and east seems to differ. The east is pre feminism equality, the west - after abandoning traditional gender rules has a whole new way of viewing 'equality'
In Islam it seems to promote this traditional sense of 'equality'
I know the Sharia law seems to differ from country to country and is rooted in the culture of that country itself.
I know less about Shia Islam than I do about Sunni Islam other than the method in which they pick their leader - Sunni through democratic, and Shia seems to more resemble a monarchy - descendant of Muhammed
>>70438951
>But if I'm not mistaken Christianity seemed to encourage unity of all races in scripture but still acted historically to unite the whites of Europe against Islam
Orthodox, Catholics & Protestants in Europe has been fighting each other even during the Crusades, that's why Crusaders lost because they were fighting each other & the Saracens/Muslims were uniting especially under Saladin's rule.
>Isn't more brutal punishment's exactly what people seem to want to reduce degeneracy though? I think it was your country or Indonesia which recently stated drug traffickers would be forced to consume their product until they die for example
Ours, a lot, if not majority of people want to bring back death penalty again since crime is getting worse like 2-5 year old children getting raped by drug addicts and/or trafficked
>Would Islam lose it's appeal if the current model of Islam was undone for a racial one?
Islam is very primitive, but sometimes being primitive is good since it doesnt succumb to Western Liberal Degeneracy that acknowledges deranged people like those attending gay pride parades dancing around naked on public
>Islamic religious philosophy doesn't change much or don't change at all, compared to Christianity that has been subject to lots of religious reforms
>>70439431
In addition to what I already posted -
I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!' He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks…. Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom." [9:61] "Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey's.'
Ishaq 243
>>70439305
“There is no superiority for an Arab over a non-Arab, nor for a non-Arab over an Arab. Neither is the white superior over the black, nor is the black superior over the white — except by piety." - Prophet Muhammed
>>70440022
You got all this shit from wikislam didnt you??
Read the Quran and study the Hadith before you say shit...
>>70439895
"protestants, Catholics, Orthodox"
It seems protestants are the more 'cultural christians' who don't obey scripture as much. While catholics after the great schism became more of a political organization with orthodox abiding by cultural tradition and scripture the most
The problems of Europeans were present before the onset of Christendom though, it was mostly political which seems to of driven the divide in their faith
Islam has this issue too with Sunni, Shia, and Kharijite. But the divide seems more rooted in scripture than politics, but I know less about middle eastern history than European
"Ours, a lot, if not majority of people want to bring back death penalty again since crime is getting worse like 2-5 year old children getting raped by drug addicts and/or trafficked "
How do I green text, do I just put an arrow next to your reply after copy and pasting? But what you said seems to hold true for the U.S and other countries as well.
Other than the leftists, people want the death penalty back, as in many states it's been semi outlawed or gets held up in courts for decades. To many prisoners, not enough punishment
"Islam is very primitive, but sometimes being primitive is good"
I agree which is part of why I had this line of thinking in the first place
>>70440022
Lmaoo look at this kaffir....
I guess you don't know that a lot of Muhammed companions were black...
>>70439305
i would disagree with you on some points although i don't intended to change your mind or anything.
the first hadith might be interpreted as something good for her. another thing about hadiths is that mohammed never wanted them to be documented so they won't mix up with the quran, it is impossible that 100% of the hadiths are correct...they must be 'verified' by some prominent figures like al bokhari even so, take all the hadith with a grain of salt.
speaking of abd, many muslims call themselves abd allah, abd alrahman...etc. all of these means the slave of [insert a syn. for allah]
but i will have to agree with you on something, many slaves were brought from Africa, this might have given a sense of superiority to the Arabs. BUT such sense of superiority did not originate from Islam. In fact early Muslims were more than grateful from the king of Al habasha [black kingdom in Ethiopia] for sheltering them in the early days of islam where none would.
one final note, mohammad was discussing something important with his buddies when a blind old man wanted to talk to him, mohammed only frowned at the man's face, this made allah kind of pissed from his prophet actions that a whole verse was brought by Gabriel to condemn mohammed for his simple frown.
>>70440164
Yes, just as there is a portion which quotes the Talmud saying Jews should not kill another. Just as there are rules established for those of the Ummah vs people of the book. You would have to be foolish to think there isn't some level of hierarchy presented in the Quran, that or to ignore the racial elements - even historically
>>70440578
You're right that I still don't know quite a lot about Islam, if I'm being completely honest much of what I know about it is for business related, tracking terrorist activity, trying to learn about the idealogy for motivation etc
I wasn't aware a lot of his companions were black, especially since of the time period - formed up a sizable following in Mecca after being chased out of Medina, won a battle against the forces of Medina. It was this first battle in which he was vastly out numbered were he realized the blessing of God came through warfare too
I believe white nationalism and national socialism are western constructs. As such are incompatible with islam at their base.
If you are a redditor don't start using names or trips please
>>70440766
Lmaoo why would god the almighty need a hierarchy...
Islam is made for all mankind and no i read the Quran front to back and there is no racial elements.
>>70441164
Islam is the only true way to heaven and peace
>>70437834
FUCK OFF
Hitler sad 1 good thing about muslims and fuckin beta faggots go lel hitler LOOOOVED islam
every non white european report to the camps 1488
>>70440719
Oh yes I'm aware not all Muslims or even Muslim denominations declare value in the Hadith, I think it's mainly Sunni, right?
I don't know very much about the history of Ethiopia, a huge gap in my knowledge for history regarding theology unfortunately. I was under the impression that the only civilization of note worthy in Africa came from Arab conquest, such as the Songhai empire or the Moors
That Arab explorers into Africa had similar observations to make about the black people as decades later from the white colonizers
I actually have a few questions for you if you wouldn't mind about Islam
1. Muslims believe Muhammad received Archangel Michael in the cave who provided the teachings, right?
2. When Muhammad ascended to heaven is what is worshipped in Mecca - the black cube, is it because something came forth from paradise?
Muslims don't care about nations or the color of their skin. All they care about is Islam. They won't work to benefit a nation, they only work to benefit Islam
>>70441243
actually no.
Christianity and even the joos are viable options too.
I wish that everyone would follow the principle of live and let live. life would have been much easier, leaf anon.
>>70441100
Wasn't the object of Saddam's Ba'al party the unification of the Arab people's though? I have seen some cross over in nationalism rooted in racial / cultural value in other part's of the world before
I'm actually still learning about national socialism but it seems to be a system in which thing's are done in benefit of the people who occupy the nation
Nope, not a redditor, just a /pol/ lurker who finally made a post because I wanted feed back
>>70441243
I swear to god no matter how hard i try to troll with Islam being a true and only religion of piece there is always one canuck doing it better.
Well played my brother insallah.
>>70437834
Islam is against nationalism, this is why muslims are all dark haired brown skinned niggers.
>>70441164
There is a hierarchy even in heaven, is there not?
God sits atop the thrown, arch angels, than regular angels, with prophets and their followers in other portions
I think the night Muhammad ascended to heaven there is different layers / levels of heaven described too but not to sure about that part
I was talking more about a mortal hierarchy though, but I'm getting the impression you're trolling me
>>70441407
I don't think I said he loved Islam, he did work with Arabs though. There is a heavy occult involvement in Nazism though - The Thule society who funded his rise to power, the Arabs and Islamic people I always viewed as more of a form of mutual respect, like his attitude towards the Japanese more so than anything else
>>70441505
This doesn't seem to hold true for splinter groups motivated by race such as the nation of Islam or a few other black Muslim groups in Africa though. This was one of the reasons I wanted to explore white nationalism / Islam cross over
>>70441528
Islam is the only true peaceful faith and if you don't believe so, you should be stoned.
>>70441745
All you must do is accept Allah in your heart.
>>70437834
a fucking bunch of stars and stripes
>>70441528
This leads me to another question -
I know that Christians believe in order to go to heaven you must accept Christ as your lord and savoir because Christ said only through him you can enter paradise
But what about Muslims? I'm aware of the five pillars, but I also know Islam recognized Adam, Noah, Jesus, etc as prophets or figures of importance
Does your comment mean that Islam believes even Christians and Jews go to heaven?
Isn't part of the reason they're hated in Islam because Muslims believe they've turned their back on God by not following / recognizing the next step of Islam or something like that?
>>70442095
Nation of islam are not even Muslim.....
>>70437834
>white arabs
>arabs
>white
>>70441828
There are political movements and 'state' like entities such as the Caliphs established historically where borders are established and various forms of Sharia law come up in Muslim countries
I don't think it's unfair to say that some semblance of nationalism is present historically
There are quite a few white Muslims too - the white widow being one of the more famous examples
The Iranians were pretty white in the past too if I'm not mistaken, and as stated Muhammed is described as a white man as i his cousin Ali
>>70442345
"The Nation of Islam is an Islamic religious movement founded in Detroit, U.S by Wallace Fard Muhammad"
You're trolling me aren't you
>>70442095
LMAOOO
Nation of islam is not considered to be muslims because they think that W.Fard dude is allah which takes you outta the fold of islam...
and also they Prophet Jacob(PBUH) was some black scientist that created the white race and they curse him which takes out of islam
>>70442623
You are really ignorant aren't you...?
>>70442455
Yes, yes I know the meme / disagreement about the whiteness of Arabs. I think that a big part of that is because of breeding blacks from Africa with white Arabs of the region, but that's another topic
>>70442623
They're not considered to be Muslim. They believe in a number of things which run contrary to orthodox or mainstream Islamic doctrinal teachings.
>>70442636
Yeah I know Nation of Islam does a lot of weird shit that puts it at odds with other denominations of Islam but I was just using it as an example of how racial element had been injected into the idealogy of Islam
>>70442766
to be accurate arabs were never white. arabs always lived on the arabian penensula and were always the same as they are today, however mesopotamia, the levant, persia, egypt, all of these were very different in the past before the arabs left their penensula and conquered them spreading their arab genes and religion.
these other regions would probably be considered white today if the arab conquests had never happened
>>70442949
Had been before
>>70442636
I love how Allahu ta'ala destroyed the evil plans of Elijah through his own son. Warith Deen Mohammed. That man disbanded NOI and invited the black community to actual Islam, which many of them accepted. May Allah bless him.
See the Plan of Allah.
>>70443050
I agree, that seems to be what I've come across - that's why I think the brownish color of modern day Arabs is from breeding during their conquests into Africa
In similar ways to how Mexicans are a mutt breed between White Spanish, and brown native Aztec descendants
>>70443050
>Muh White
>>70443094
Like I said, I was mostly just using Nation of Islam as an example of how the racial element had been introduced to Islamic idealogy before, as a basis for what it may look like if Whites combined white nationalism with Islam
>>70441494
i am your average muslim, i don't have extensive knowledge about islam but i will try to answer your questions.
>1.
It was Gabriel who visited mohammed at the cave. it was described as an angel with a thousand wing that span from earth to the heaven, such visage would normally scramble the mind of anyone.
Moving on, Mohammed was terrified, Gabe said "READ!" , Mohammed didn't know how to write/read ,Terrified he said "I can't read!"
The angel repeated the same sentence, and mohammed repeated the same answer, Gabe said "Read in the name of your god!Who created man, out of a clotted blood.
Proclaim! And your god is the most resourceful Who taught by the pen,Taught man that which he wouldn't be aware of!"
and that was the start. Gabe would deliver the word of allah to mohammed and he would recite them to one of his followers to have them written since he couldn't write
>2.
i don't have much info about this subject, but in short:
The 'black cube' was built as a unified beacon of sort for muslim to pray at, it is like the embassy of god on earth. the black stone (found at one on the corners, you would find tons of muslims trying to kiss it) is said to be a white stone which descended from the heavens to earth. it became black as night from the sins of man. since it was a part of heaven, many would touch/kiss it.
One of Mohammed buddies despised said stone, he said if mohammed didn't encourage said actions, he wouldn't touch/kiss the stone.
>>70443474
Thank you for the answers Egyptbro, my interest in Islam started off in why I considered it a threat to the west, but has branched off into more of a personal interest in the history and theology over all, I appreciate the feedback
Which has put me at odds with my values of white nationalism
One more question on the Ascension of Mohammed - Did he descend back to earth or did he stay in heaven?
>>70443340
>Some reactionary blacks in america = radical element introduced into islam
You mean wahhabism?
Islam is not compatible with racial supremacy.... Islam does not discriminate on the basis on color,creed,sex or caste.. Its just anyone worshipping his creator.
I want you to go to your nearest mosque and see how diverse it is.
>>70443922
Nah, Wahhabism was a political movement to dethrone the house of Saud because their dynasty inheritance violated the values of Sunni Islam in deciding a leader based upon community decision
I will probably go to a near by Mosque for questions I have though
>>70444147
hope your time there would be worth it...
Gonna go play some csgo.
bye bye /pol/
As-salamu alaykum
>>70442264
in quran Christians are described as ' the ones who are not frowned upon' while the jews are straight out described as 'the ones who lost the way'
There are many verses which encourage nice treatment to Christians, Mohammed was married to a christian and a jew at some point as a subtle way to encourage nice treatment to those who follow the word of god.
However, Islam denies the idea of a middle man; someone who would 'atone your sins'. it was mentioned several times that Allah has no son and he wasn't born himself. Jesus is but a prophet who is to be respected by all muslims like every other prophet. in short islam recognize the faulty in Christianity but it is treated as the closest thing to 'right'. however, in actual practice, the jews are closet to us.
most of my friends are Christians to be honest here in egypt.
as for joos, they are depicted badly in the quran as prophet killers, extorting and backstabbing individuals. however, the most prophet talked about in quran is actually Moses, the prophet of jew, the man has a special place to allah.
BUT even the jews are preferred when it comes to non Abrahamic religions. a muslim (male) can only marry a muslim/jew/christian but not vice versa.
Also Mohammed jewish wife was a qt, he loved her and some of his wives got jealous from her.
>>70437834
>and in the Quran speaks specifically about how low blacks are.
Not true
>What if Islam originally contained a racial hierarchy?
It did not, one of the most powerful early muslims was a black freed slave. The first mu'adhin or the first who did the call to prayer.
>My question is this -> Could White nationalism, National Socialism, and Islam come together as an idealogy?
The only political ideology that is compatible with islam is the political ideology that Muhammad had, which is islamism.
> As far as I can tell, Muslims feel the same about Christians, the same way Christians feel about Jews
Muslims view it as a religion, what their race is don't matter. If a jew converts to islam then he is not considered a jew..
>>70442518
Islam is against tribalism and nationalism, his dogmas don't recognize race or nation, only the ummah.
>>70439305
>There is the example in the hadith in which an Ethiopian woman laments her racial inferiority to Muhammad, who consoles her by saying, "In Paradise, the whiteness of the Ethiopian will be seen over the stretch of a thousand years."
Give sources, your hadiths are not among the strong hadiths, it is either weak or fabricated. Many of the fabricated hadith are made up by jews and christians.
>Another hadith quotes Muhammad thus: "Do not bring black into your pedigree."
Sounds like a shia or fabricated hadith.
>the Arabic word for slave, “Abd,” became equated with Africans and Blacks with the advent of Islam.
It was equated with Prophet Muhammed who called himself Abd and arabs who called themselves abd or slave. Abdullah, Abdurahman, Abdulmalik and so on.
>Through Islamic scripture and historical context, the position of blacks in Arab societies and Islam was low
They were leaders, the richest in the caliphate. So that don't make sense
>>70442264
also, they are supposed to enter heaven but some say it is muslim-only invitation so how knows?
there was a story about a man who found a dog dying of thirst, the man took off his slippers, poured some water to the dog in it. Upon this act of kindess, Allah would sent this man to heaven. note that none said the man was a muslim/jew/anything. same goes to a woman who trapped a kitten until it starved to death. this woman would go straight to hell.
>>70443864
i am not aware of the full story but basically mohammed was under a lot of pressure since he and his followers were treated like shit/killed...etc.
there was a story about a jewish neighbor who shat near mohammed doorstep everyday, one day, mohammed didn't find the usual shit on his door step and so he went to check on the jew. he was sick, i don't recall whether the jew converted afterwards from this act of kindness or he stopped shitting...
moving on, basically, Allah sent this buraq (think of a Pegasus) to mohammed for a ride to the heavens as a minor relief. i think gabe said that if he want, gabe would clap his wing to destroy his enemies or something like that but mohammed refused. The trip to the heaven was something temporary tho as he went back to spread the world of allah.
>>70440766
There is no race in Islam, Muhammed considered bragging about one's bloodline the worst part of pagan ignorance. Muslims who care about race are the lowest of the low in muslim society. Just above the kuffar, but barely.
It was narrated from Ubayy ibn Ka‘b that a man boasted in an ignorant manner of his tribal lineage, so he told him to bite his father’s male member, and he did not use a metaphor. The people looked askance at him, so he said to the people: I can see what you are thinking, and I can only say this: that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) instructed us: “If you hear someone boasting in an ignorant manner of his tribal lineage, then tell him to bite his father’s male member, and do not use a metaphor.”
Narrated by Ahmad (35/157); classed as hasan by the commentators on al-Musnad.
>>70444462
Okay, thanks for the feed back anon, enjoy csgo
>>70444835
>>70446193
>>70445579
Thank you all for the reply's, I really appreciate it, there is still about Islam I need to learn. My main issue is that my value of racial identity and culture conflicts with the possibility of Islam being the idealogy of the future than
I'm not personally a religious person, I'm agnostic, but I enjoy learning about theology and how it can be used to influence or guide a society. Islam seems to be what might be needed right now, but the racial element is important as inherent racial differences do exist
So again, I'm conflicted, I need to think more about this. I may not be able to reply further, I need to do other things, but again, thank you all anons who replied here, have a good day
