>He purposefully took her to an isolated area, away from all of the party goers, to an area that was dimly lit, and assaulted her on the ground behind a dumpster. He deliberately took advantage of the fact that she was so intoxicated that she could not form a sentence, let alone keep her eyes open or stand. This behavior is not typical assaultive behavior that you find on campus, but it is more akin to a predator who is searching for prey.[16]
>Brock Turner has cited his "inexperience" with alcohol as a factor in his judgement the night of January 18, 2015. However, it has been reported that Turner was not truthful about his extensive experience with drugs and alcohol, with evidence from his phone indicating a years-long pattern of recreational drug and alcohol use.[20]
Can't you Americans do something about this? Not only is a predatory rapist, and a rotten person, but also a pathological liar.
>>76493044
Don't you have your own rape issues to be ignoring?
>>76493044
He's going to jail.
What more do u want Muhammad
>>76493044
Can't you do something about the refujihadists?
>>76493166
prison
14 years prison is the cap for the sentence, he should get at least 6
why are you cucks making 20 threads about this
I don't need to know about this
>>76493332
He did get 6
Months
That sick fuck need to knifed down im prison after getting raped by good amount of nigger.
But why was he not bullied into submission from day one?
I mean, look at that fuckung geek. Who invites him to parties anyway?
>>76493044
If he was a nigger /pol/ would be outraged.
>>76493044
His life is already totally ruined. What else do you want?
>>76493391
it's not just one case
white privileged men raping women on campus happens all the time, just this time 2 Swedes caught him
>>76493525
how was his life ruined when he gets out of jail in 6 months? He's out by NYE
>>76493525
more jail time
i mean, 6 months? for real?
>>76493133
fpbp
The story I heard was that they were both super drunk, the difference being that he didn't lose consciousness at a point during the incident. And he said it was consensual. So I don't understand why the general public is treating this as if it's a clear cut case of him stalking and preying on this woman and forcing her to fuck when it seems like it's more a case of, both persons being super drunk and consenting to fuck, and him being too drunk to stop after she passed out. She doesn't even remember the incident....
>>76493525
He is in jail for 6 months. MONTHS. for rape
Your country is fucked
>>76493663
t. Ahmed
>>76493587
>white privileged men raping women on campus happens all the time, just this time 2 Swedes caught him
you should probably leave and never come back
>rape is a bad thing
lots of underages in this thread, it seems
now give me those (You)s, tumblr
>>76493044
She was drunk and does not remember if she initiated sex or even freely participated. She remembers nothing. His sentence is based on the fact that a inebriated person can not consent to sexual acts. It's a fucking technicality! Drunk people fuck all the time!!
>>76493587
>>76493591
He's a registered sex offender
So for the rest of his life he'll have to go door to door telling his neighbors that.
All for finger banging a chick. She was willing but then passed out. He should have stopped there but he didnt. Thus the penalty.
It's a pretty open and shut case.
>>76493044
>Implying he hasn't already been sentenced
This case has similarities to the Luke Lazarus case in Australia, he went to jail for 1 year. Moral of the story is: don't take compromised girls into alley ways for your own gratification, the lines are blurred at best but the most likely scenario is you've abused your power in the situation, as Brock clearly has.
>>76493525
>6 month in jail
>life ruined
He is basically on a vacation. I bet he's rich too. So he will have no problems getting his education and eventually a job once he gets out.
>>76493811
>She was willing but then passed out.
>dead-drunk chick, literally asleep
>willing
You know nothing about life.
>>76493587
He has to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life. And sex offenders are all lumped together. So when people hear that he's on the registry, he's lumped in with the child predators, when in reality, he and some chick both got hammered and she passed out and was clearly ashamed of her actions, and the women hold the upper hand when it comes to these types of incidents. She can say she was too drunk that she can't be held responsible for begging for his dick, but he can't be too drunk to be held responsible for obliging her. Assuming that it happened that way. She doesn't remember too he incident at all though.
>>76493044
There's nothing we can do about this because suggesting anything other than "telling rapists not to rape" is victim blaming and will get you labeled a sexist.
Thanks to modern day feminism it has never been easier for rapists to rape women.
>>76493874
>>76493936
I just can't feel sympathy towards him.
>>76493587
>how was his life ruined when he gets out of jail in 6 months? He's out by NYE
He's on the sex offender registry.
He will never have a decent job in his life nor will he be able to get back into school.
>>76493591
>>76493672
>>76493858
^
The registry is a far worse punishment than jail.
>>76493770
Cool. But I'm not saying that he's totally innocent, I just don't think he's the monster the public is making him out to be. He's an idiota yes, and so is she. To be honest this whole issue is too complicated for me to say if 6 months is too much or too little. Either way it's not really completely fair.
>>76493865
Multiple accounts of them dancing grinding and kissing through the night, despite her being in a relationship. She agrees to go to his dorm room. They don't make it and he crosses the line. I'm not sure what point your trying to make.
>>76493936
>There's nothing we can do about this
yes, you can, sentence people according to the law
>>76493525
proper justice, he's getting off light because he was a dudebro with some scholarship but that doesn't exempt you from the law; he committed and was convicted of 3 felonies.
yeah his life is ruined, so is hers but more so. he deserves worse than he got
>>76493663
>implying you can consent when you're drunk
>or even as drunk as they were
nah
>>76494013
>He's on the sex offender registry.
>He will never have a decent job in his life nor will he be able to get back into school.
He's rich you moron. Some of his daddy's friends will employ him regardless.
>>76494041
He was drunk too, why should he be punished the same as a sober person?
>>76494040
>Multiple accounts of them dancing grinding and kissing through the night, despite her being in a relationship.
[citation needed]
>>76494011
Not saying you should, or that anyone should. It's just that cases like this have so much grey area and it's weird that just because you have a dick that makes you responsible for your actions while drunk, but if you're actions woman you get to wake up in vomit actions and say "whoops" But at the same time you can't punish her as she did nothing wrong. It's just a fucked up situation and it's not black and white like too many other people want to make it
>>76494013
>He's on the sex offender registry.
>He will never have a decent job in his life nor will he be able to get back into school.
Shouldn't have raped.
>>76494092
trust fund too
>>76494092
So rich people should be pinoshed in excess of the law?
>>76493044
There's nothing "to do about it." Rapists gonna rape. No amount of telling people not to commit crimes will stop them from committing crimes. You should know this better than anyone, Hans. The only thing "to do" is prosecute the criminals properly, which obviously didn't happen. This bitch needs to be in prison for 15
>>76494156
He wasn't drunk, didn't you read the OP? He was an experienced alcohol and drug user. She wasn't.
>>76494046
>so is hers but more so
Do you really, honestly believe that?
Do you seriously think an attractive collage age girl has had her life ruined because some guy diddled her while she was passed out?
>>76494092
Nope.
Businesses have to publicly report that shit. That's why nobody hires these people in the first place.
Nobody wants the risk of one of their clients saying "So I hear you employ a convicted rapist"
>>76494158
Go read her victim statement it's all in there
>>76494013
lol love how you toot this horn that the registry is the ultimate punishment. long term yeah, sure.
take into account that he got CONVICTED and didn't even once apologize or express remorseful for his sexual assault for which he was C O N V I C T E D. just because he had a swimming scholarship means he gets off light though according to the judge?? that's a load of garbage, there's no way to justify it
he's a piece of shit kid, but it isn't wholly his fault. it's an example of why our culture is fucked up.
>>76494188
6 years for rape is not excess, but justice
>>76494156
Who cares? You're still responsible for the shit you do when you're under the influence.
>>76494171
>>Not saying you should, or that anyone should
No, what you're saying is:
"Poor lad, commited a crime and now he has to pay for it? What a terrible world we live in!"
>>76494262
fuck off troll
The truth of the matter is if the genders were reversed he is still getting punished more harshly than any woman would be (because she probably wouldn't receive any punishment at all).
Until the day come where women are given accountability for their sexual actions while drunk the same way men are I could care less about this case.
>>76494046
That's my point though. She can't be held responsible for her actions in saying "yes, I wish to have your dick inside of me" but he can be held responsible for believing her and following through? Both of them were most likely fucking hammered. So how can only one persons drunken actions be a bad, while them the others is forgiven? I'm not saying I have the answer to that question because I don't. But anyone who thinks it's black and white with a clearly defined line is a little out of touch.
>>76494193
>She wasn't
She was a self proclaimed ""party animal""
Who thought her partying experience would allow her to drink a lot.
She says it herself in her statement. She didn't know you could lose alcohol tolerance you gain in college
>>76494262
Should be 15, at least, if it's completely provable
>>76494231
I'm not condoning him or anything. He's definitely a piece of shit with a thoroughly punchable face but no convicted sex offender ever gets off light because the registry usually leads to suicide.
The kid was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and now his life is completely and irrevocably fucked. I can't imagine he's going to last long in this brave new world of his.
>>76494231
Exactly this!
I swear to god, the top 5% of the smartest /pol/ posters are almost all Americans.
Same as with Ron Paul threads. Surprises me every time.
>>76494215
did you read her statement?
do you honestly think she's fine? are you that fucking stupid? i swear i know the average 4chan user leans to the right on almost all social issues, and will even go so far as regurgitate anything in opposition of tumblr/reddit bogeyman, but seriously?
how she looks has nothing to do with it. sexual assault and rape are inexcusable and can seriously, heavily damage someone for a very long time.
why don't you try for once to feel some compassion you stupid fuck
>>76494321
No, I'm not saying that at all actually
>>76494181
>be a virgin on the sex offender registry as a rapist
Damn man just think about that. It's like being arrested for poaching lions after killing one in defense when it attacks you. Even if you egged it on, it's just silly.
>>76494215
trust fund.
>>76494335
what? if the lady was fingering the guy?
>>76494397
>usually leads to suicide.
I don't really care.
>>76494403
> based German for once
So how the fuck did he get off so light? Lawyer ties? Incredibly rich family? Wtf is going on
>>76494480
I doubt he is a virgin.
>It's like being arrested for poaching lions after killing one in defense when it attacks you
hahaha what?
Honestly guys put yourself in the position of her brother, or her father. Imagine this guy sneaking around your house putting his filthy fucking hands on your daughter, your grace. Fucking animal. Just read the testimony. Fucking bully.
>>76494397
>usually leads to suicide.
That's irrelevant for the law. We are talking about proper rule of law here, nothing else.
When you start to bend laws because of connections, your country will be ruined eventually.
>>76494321
>Who cares? You're still responsible for the shit you do when you're under the influence if you're a man
FTFY
Women have no responsibility for their actions when drunk so why would I care if men are given less like in this case? As far as I'm concerned men should have no responsibility for their actions when drunk, or women should have as much responsibility as men, either works for me. As it stands now he shouldn't receive any punishment for his actions since if a drunk girl is given no responsibility for her actions while drunk than its only fair a man shouldn't either.
>finally finger bang nurse
>she reports you for rape
Can't catch a break
>>76494352
did she consent? is that definitively proven by anything?
no, there's no proof but his word. consider the facts that she had tissue damage and abrasions inside her vagina as well as dirt and pine needles, and the guy fucking ran away when people saw him fingering her by a goddamn dumpster.
oh but it's fine, they were both drunk so how can we blame him right? clearly she was okay with this and he asked her if it was okay that he could finger her.
seriously why don't you fucks just read her statement
i'm honestly baffled that anyone could think there's any debate here. the kid was convicted of sexual assault. the girl didn't do anything wrong. the kid now gets a light sentence, which is a load of horse shit. there is no debate here
>>76493044
you could try to contact people in his jail, or find gangster types on twitter/fb in the area with friends inside
>>76494587
I think part, if not the whole, of it is that he left her behind a dumpster. Not bringing her with him was probably his downfall
>>76493044
not only should he not get 6 months, he should get not time at all and also a medal
>>76494413
I feel compassion in amounts that are due.
I feel very little compassion for a girl who acted like a complete fucking idiot and got off EXTREMELY easily.
She could have been ACTUALLY raped, or assaulted or murdered but she wasn't. She got a finger in her vagina for a few minutes that she likely wasn't even lucid for.
No. This didn't change her life and she, like many victims thrown into the spotlight, is milking it for all it's worth.
Allow me to reiterate, though, I think the faggot that diddled her a complete piece of shit and deserves to have his life ruined.
>>76494484
>trust fund.
1) they're finite
2) there will likely be a civil suit as well that tears that to shreds
>>usually leads to suicide.
>I don't really care.
Nor do I. Just making the point that it's effectively a slow, prolonged death sentence.
>>76494572
I'm talking about crime and punishment. There are many other ways to punish people aside from locking them in a cinder block room with free meals.
Friendly reminder that all he did was stick a finger in her vagina. She was black out drunk and remembers nothing. He was drunk. If you listened to the goddamn half hour long, 7000 word statement that they read commercial free on CNN, it has this sappy statement about how
>muh life will never be the same I'm the ultra-mega-100%finalform-victim I will always carry this with me please pay attention to me more
No dicks, no hymens popped, no rape babies or hush money. A blackout drunk guy stuck his finger in the vagina of a blackout drunk girl.
>>76494633
Are you serious? Is this your first day here or something and you're trolling for points? How can you be any kind of /pol/lack at all, knowing how degenerate and broken our court system is, and say this is an open-and-shut case simply because the judge made a ruling? Are you legitimately retarded?
>>76493044
Peoples inhibitions are lower when they are drunk, yes, but also their moral compass is harder to hear.
>>76493663
Also this.
>>76494046
>implying you can consent when you are drunk
If you cant consent when drunk, can you know that your actions are wrong? Does he even remember the incident at all?
>>76494484
No as if a drunk girl consents to sex having sex with her is rape because she is drunk and has no responsibility for consenting, so why should a drunk guy who was given consent to have sex and then fingered a girl have responsibility for his actions? His punishment is fine and punishing him like he was sober is retarded.
wait so did he fuck her or just put a finger in her?
>>76493044
>Drunk sex
>Rape
Nope
>took her away from other partygoers
He didn't fuck her on the dance floor? Must be rape, everyone fucks out in the open.
>>76494732
Because he was almost as wasted as she was...
>>76494633
>the girl didn't do anything wrong
Fisrt she was 23. That's a woman not girl
Second. If taking your little sister to a frat party, getting blackout drunk and ditching her is considered good behavior it's no wonder the moral fabric of western society it's falling apart.
>>76494839
Just fingered her for a few minutes.
>>76494013
>He will never have a decent job
You realize if you dedicate yourself to starting your own business it's really not that hard. There are so many options.
>>76494766
you're speaking out of turn and you obviously have no fucking clue what you're talking about. trivializing sexual assault? are you really that brainwashed by this shitty website and board?
she was SEXUALLY ASSAULTED you dumb fuck. that's ASSAULT like you said.
go ahead and read her statement, oh wait you won't because you're a slob of a human who's blinded by his own close mindedness.
i can't believe i'm reading these posts, like just how much of the pol meme can someone buy into? i'm being trolled right?
>>76494766
> Clarity finally
What would you make the sentence? Or rather, do you feel this is a just one?
>>76494766
>"I'm talking about crime and punishment."
>The United States Sentencing Commission, which establishes sentencing guidelines and policies for federal courts, recommends between eight and 20 years for convicted rapists
his crime was rape, the punishment is between 8 and 20 years
>>76494839
doesn't really matter much to the law
>>76494956
^^This ID = reddit troll. Just a friendly PSA.
>>76494633
So her getting so fucking drunk that she fell asleep behind a dumpster is her doing nothing wrong? And yes that's the only evidence of it being consensual is his word. But that's all it takes for a person to be arrested on rape charges. Someone's word. It's not a black and white case, it's way more complicated than you're making it
>>76494774
She was drunk and does not remember if she initiated sex or even freely participated. She remembers nothing. His sentence is based on the fact that a inebriated person can not consent to sexual acts. It's a fucking technicality! Drunk people fuck all the time!!
>>76494839
>>76494899
>sexually penetrating an unconscious person with a foreign object and sexually penetrating an intoxicated person with a foreign object -- fall under the Justice Department's definition of rape: "Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."
Almost everyone will fight tooth and nail to keep family, their children in particular, from serving long sentences in jail regardless of whether or not they believe they are guilty. Often even if they themselves were the victims of the crimes.
My brother used to be a drug addict and my parents always avoided involving police. The few times they did, it was usually because they were worried for someone's (usually his) safety and even then, they agonized over the decision and still supported him emotionally and financially.
People don't want their family going somewhere they may be viciously beaten, raped and could come out after 10+ years with even worse mental conditions.
>>76494865
I understand that, but leaving her there (a stereotypical rape setting) was a bad idea. Why didn't he just bring her with him
>>76494956
She didn't even remember the incident. I read a tiny bit of her letter, and most of it is probably due to her own shame for allowing that to happen to herself, and disguising it as being traumatized by what the guy did. Because she doesn't even remember what the guy did...
>>76494956
They were both wasted and they both consented to having sex. Should he be punished for doing shit after she passed out? Yes, should he be severely punished? No, they were both drunk and both previously gave consent, you can't make good decisions when drunk which is why fucking a drunk girl when sober can be considered rape, why should he have full responsibility for bus actions when he was drunk when a woman has 0 responsibility for her actions when she is drunk regardless if she is conscious or not not
>>76494785
i don't come to /pol/ often, i don't identify with any particular part of the site
i'm not trolling, i'm just pissed off. i don't get what your point is
>>76494871
>girl, woman
semantics, whatever.
she didn't take her little sister to the party, it was the other way around. i'm almost at a loss for words for how uninformed, unfamiliar, and unequivocally wrong/misguided/confused you and people who echo your general sentiments in this matter are
>>76494812
>so why should a drunk guy who was given consent to have sex and then fingered a girl
wat
the person being fingered has to consent too
>>76495039
Obviously it is more then that or she wouldn't be pressing charges.
>>76493044
Why the hell is a single rape case international news?
It can't be because of the light sentence, women get light (or zero) sentences for violent and sexual offending all the time.
>>76495006
Kek. I thought the exact same thing. They're getting worse at hiding themselves
>>76495071
drug abuse is a victimless crime, my friend
rape isn't
>>76494918
He has to publicly declare that he is a registered sex offender.
Something tells me that won't attract much business.
>>76494998
U wot
>>76495001
Was he actually charged and convicted of "rape" or was it some lesser charges associated with the act?
I have a feeling it's the latter.
>>76495046
Common sense also has a say in the interpretation of the law and it doesn't take a federal judge to tell you there's a difference.
>>76495105
Because he was wasted on drugs and alcohol and not in a rational state of mind...
>>76493133
>haha other countries have problems to so ours don't matter when it happens XD
>>76494839
I thought Swedish guys who found them said he was on top of her and humping.
Sounded like he got it in both holes as well.
>>76495046
It's awful either way but I think most people feel fingering isn't as much of a violation as dicking.
>All these people defending the rapist
It sure is a completely different tone when shit skin rape. Don't defend this shit. Raping is nigger behaviour and should be looked down upon. The guy is rich ffs, he could have easily found a willing woman, which only makes his crime worse.
>>76495127
>They were both wasted and they both consented to having sex
>both consented to having sex
Yes, that's why he RAN AWAY
>>76495197
It's because its some rich white kid who got a light sentence and race baiting is all the rage these days
>>76494572
I assume that you will be protesting the next rapefugee incident in your own country.
>>76495199
Summer's here!
>>76495131
Here, reddit. Read these, and have a fucking redpill.
>>76495208
Yeah when a mother let's her infant child starve to death, or get gangraped in the crackhouse, or voluntarily sells the child for sex because she's too high to give a fuck, or needs the money for her next bump. Totally victimless.
>>76495111
she was being used as a human fucktoy. actually, less than a human. she was a limp body being used. the kid didn't even know her name.
she probably shouldn't have had as much to drink as she did. that's not a crime though. what the kid did was a crime and he should be tried as the adult he is, but he wasn't and he was let off easy.
>>76495127
where is the proof that they both consented? here's a hint, even if there were some kind of "proof" that she consented, they were both drunk. you can't give consent when you're under the influence you dipstick, and certainly not at the level of intoxication either of them were at
>>76495213
Do you feel 6 months is a fair sentence? If not, what do you feel is most just?
>>76495197
>Why the hell is a single rape case international news?
Gee I wonder.
Let's be honest, now.
If they were both men, nothing would've happened.
Being gay is much better, because men always want to have sex, so there isn't this rape thing;
>>76495006
>>76495199
pretty pathetic that you think someone who disagrees with your idiotic world view is a troll, but believe what you want. you guys just don't fucking get it
>>76495155
And she did give consent before she passed out, so there's no point in punishing the guy like he was sober, he was drunk and on drugs like she was, they both can't make good rational decisions, they both aren't fully responsible for their actions. This wasn't some sober guy taking advantage of a drunk chick, treating it like that makes no sense.
So this dude fucked a drunk chick behind a dumpster? How is this news worthy? I know more than one guy who has done much the same or worse. Rape histeria. White male witch hunt.
>>76495131
do you have a non-clickbait article stating the facts presented during the trial? i keep hearing one thing, then the other.
>>76495213
>He has to publicly declare that he is a registered sex offender.
>Something tells me that won't attract much business.
no its not like has to put it on his business card, he has to be in a public record registry but it's not like every one looks at it every time they hire a plumber.
plus you could get into a computer field and work as an independant contracter where you don't need to give any info, you just email the work and you get paid.
>>76495236
It's bizarre for people outside of America to be caring about an isolated rape case. The only reason they do is because it fits the college campuses are full of rape narrative.
>>76495213
>"rape" or was it some lesser charges associated with the act?
He was charged with rape, as far as I understand. The exact wording is "sexually penetrating an intoxicated person with a foreign object" (and 2 other charges), but that falls under rape according to >>76495046
>>76495271
I'd run away too if I was on drugs and alcohol and two guys started chasing me
>>76495350
>>76495293
You know she's not going to fuck you dude. She's not ever even going to see these posts. But here, have some more facts.
Having sex with women is risky business.
>>76493044
imagine living in country that cant even show tittays in TV
pic related average children show on Czech national television
>>76495359
by that logic drunk drivers should get lesser sentences?
>>76495293
You can't say for sure who had more to drink. Odds are both of them were sufficiently drunk enough that they weren't using proper judgement. But only one of them has to take responsibility for that. Let's say hypothetically, they both consume equal amounts of alcohol to the point where neither is passed out, both consent while drunk, and both wake up the next day doesn't remember a thing, and her friend tells her she fucked some weird looking kid and then she decides at that point that she was raped.
>>76495197
>Why the hell is a single rape case international news?
It wouldn't be international news if it was a single case :)
he was charged with assault with intent to commit rape of an intoxicated/unconscious person, penetration of an intoxicated person and penetration of an unconscious person with a foreign object.
>>76495271
Are you just as outraged by the wave of sexual attacks your New German pets are bringing to your cuckolded Islamic country or just about this one in particular because it's trendy on Twitter?
Here are just a few recent ones:
https://mopo24.de/nachrichten/chemnitz-polizei-erst-schnaps-dann-sex-mit-maedchen-68706
http://www.rundschau-online.de/region/koeln/gerichtsverfahren-in-koeln-im-schlaf-sexuell-missbraucht-24119842
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617417/18-women-sexually-assaulted-German-concert-victims-surrounded-mobs-migrant-men-groped-copycat-attacks-like-Cologne.html
Are you as a German making angry threads about them as well?
he
is
a
jew
>>76495366
i know the reputation buzzfeed has and i personally don't like the website, but dude it's her statement she made in the court at one of the many hearings. just because it's on buzzfeed doesn't make it her statement
i don't have the transcripts of the trial, i read her statement. google it
>>76493044
>Rich white kid commits rape and gets 6 mounts
>Up and coming poor black kid get's accused of rape and he could have gotten 41 years for it and the accusation not been false
That's not Justice
That's not Justice at all
>>76495227
Yeah, and I'm sure she was like, " just leave me here, I'm just gonna take a nap." And he probably replied with, "okay," and stumbled his way to an uber or whatever. But if he had just brought her with him ( I mean we've all been there, with the friend saying, "no! Just leave me here." But we say no and carry then with us anyways.") This all could've been avoided.
>>76495528
You're either ignorant or trolling. Black kids on sports teams get away with rape all of the time. As I suspected, the reason people are making such a big deal of this case is simply because the kid is white.
>>76495359
>they both can't make good rational decisions
apart from the fact that he ran away when the Swedes caught him in the act
it's not a man vs woman issue, you don't need to play the devil's advocate. It's a misuse of law issue.
>>76495521
>just because it's on buzzfeed doesn't make it her statement
Your code slipping, schlomo? You're right. If it's on Buzzfeed, it's probably not her statement and completely inaccurate.
>>76495555
It probably could have been avoided if she didn't drink to the point of passing out. If you don't know your limit at 23 then there's something wrong with you.
>>76495463
s-sauce?
>>76495293
They were both drunk. They both consented. She doesn't know any better because she is drunk and can't give consent, so why is the drunk man supposed to know that a drunk girl can't give consent, when the drunk girl doesn't even know that herself?
>>76495487
What do you mean by that?
What if it were your daughter or sister?
Nevermind bet you'd watch him do it and jack off
>>76495614
Swedes :3
>>76495312
Well if it were up to me I'd just take him out back and ol' yeller the fuck but that's hardly fair.
To me legitimate rape (and all o it's derivatives) is the second worst crime on earth outdone only by the false accusation of rape.
They're both violations of a basic foundation of what makes people decent human beings.
>>76495394
Maybe he could hide it but it would only take one nosy HOA mom looking around to find it and ruin him.
>>76495425
The justice department is a federal office that does not necessarily write local laws. The same justice department still classifies weed as a class 1 narcotic while it's recreationally legal in some states.
It's very likely they just convicted him on some lesser charge since it was hardly a brutal rape that got her pregnant or some shit.
>>76493044
>she deliberately got passed out drunk
that's why you're told to drink
RESPONSIBLY
>>76495658
Do you suffer from pathological altruism? I bet there's a helpline for that.
>>76495487
Interesting how all the rapefugee incidents aren't international news.
Your government couldn't possibly asking the media to keep quiet or willingly doing it.
>>76495236
>problems
he was already sentenced for rape
literally a non issue
>some chad raped someone
wow who cares
>>76495484
i don't get why you're trying to argue hypothetical scenarios, it doesn't change at all what happened in reality and in the case.
she DID pass out, he didn't, and he was committing sexual acts on her while she was UNCONSCIOUS. that isn't "oops i fucked an ugly kid" or "oops i fucked a kid i didn't want to" it's clearly a portrait of someone being taken advantage of.
there's no point in trying to argue what you're talking about, it didn't fucking happen and it isn't relevant
>>76495633
well just like a normal assault case i'd say it depended on who made first physical contact. Being drunk is not an excuse for anything.
if I sell my watch to a guy at a bar can I come back the next day and claim he stole it?
>>76495471
I'm just for equal treatment. Men and women drunk drivers are treated more or less the same. If a women is given less or no responsibility for her sexual actions while drunk, then a man be treated the same.
>>76495607
>Black kids on sports teams get away with rape all of the time
Then why didn't Brock Turner? And how rape does rich white kids get away with then?
>>76493391
They want to prove the existence of 'rape culture' when this is clearly just the massive failure of one American judge.
When I was younger, I was raped in my sleep while passed out drunk by a chick I knew at the time. Shit fucked me up, but I did my best not to let it get to me. About a week later, she told everyone I knew that I raped her, and a lot of them believed her. Lost a lot of shitty friends over that, and almost lost my job. Meanwhile she tried to continue contact and only my actual friends really noticed what she was trying to do to me mentally. That said, this case is fucking with me a lot, I guess this is what that triggered meme is supposed to feel like.
>>76495617
doesn't make it not her statement* my bad, typo
>>76495633
"where is the proof they both consented?"
>doesn't provide proof at all
i'm being trolled
>>76495757
I like how this faggot is completely ignoring me after I BTFO him with facts. GG cunt.
>guy is drunk
>he is responsible for his own actions
>girl is drunk
>she is not responsible for her own actions
>>76495727
Expand on this thought please, if you can
>>76494231
>and didn't even once apologize or express remorseful for his sexual assault for which he was C O N V I C T E D
except he did and is you fucking autist
>>76495671
>Maybe he could hide it but it would only take one nosy HOA mom looking around to find it and ruin him.
Can't say I know what it's like to live as a sex offender but being that the map that points these people out basicly blankets any major city, id say its been overloaded to the point it not that hard to stay out of people's radar.
>>76494046
>can't consent when drunk
This meme needs to die, if she drove drunk, she would be held accountable for DUI
>>76495555
This all could have been avoided sure, which is why you shouldn't get extremely drunk and take drugs at a college party full of strangers. People make bad choices when they're on drugs and alcohol and when you're on drugs and alcohol too you only make it easier for them to make bad choices, especially when you make a bad choice by giving them permission.
>>76495839
i feel personally that rape culture is a strong word
however, it's not just a simple fuckup by a judge, it definitely is a cultural issue
>>76495506
And all of them have been sentenced properly.
I can't be upset with the rule of law in Germany. I can only be upset with the immigration policy, but those are two different things.
>>76495671
>since it was hardly a brutal rape that got her pregnant
That's now how rape is defined.
>>76495757
Plenty of cases like they hypothetical scenario I proposed result in a male being on the sex offender registry. Fuck, alcohol sometimes isn't even involved. I have a feeling you are a troll, but if you're serious, can I ask you to answer one simple question for me.
Why is it that only a woman cannot be held for the decisions she makes while drunk when it comes to her vagina, but a man can be held responsible for the decisions he makes with his dick while drunk. Pretty basic question.
>>76495350
I'm not arguing for the guy. In fact, I despise both of these people, and with conclusive evidence yet to be decided by myself, want the doucheboy to go to prison for a bit. I was just laughing at you not understanding what kind of fucking maniacs are on this board. And we can obviously pick you out of the thread by you being appalled at what's being said. People who frequent this board, instead of le reddit xD, aren't surprised by Anything. I mean anything at all. So if that upsets you, bring your moralist, faggy self on back to your safe space.
>>76495861
You are always responsible for your own actions. Drunk is not an excuse. For anything. If you can't drink then don't.
You ever get black out drunk and accidentally drag a girl behind a dumpster to rape her?
>>76495936
>now
*not
>>76495782
How many Somalis get away with rape or get off easy because they were 'under age'?
So many pots and kettles itt.
HAving sex with women = rape
>>76495876
Pathological altruism. Virtue signaling. Compulsive moral superiority complex. Buzzword snippet diarrhea. These all mean someone who is unable to go five minutes without showing to the rest of the world how moral and forthright they are, usually through social media and by denigrating those "meanie-head" conservatives who vote for Trump at every turn.
>>76495839
>>76495929
It's privilege, the kid is rich and spoiled and rich people don't get jail. Could a rich black kid get away with it?
>>76495778
The problem is men and women to behave equal. 99% of men won't report or care if a woman sexuly assulted them drunk, as long as there is no physical damage.
so it's never going to be equal because men don't care if a woman takes advantage of them.
>>76495994
Leave it to the fucking HUE to be the first one ITT to post gay porn. I'm starting to see where the degeneration comes from.
>>76495763
They were both making physical contact with each other all night, they were all over each other and grinding. There's a reason she followed him to the dumpster. They were drunk and wanted to fuck the only mistake he made was by continuing after she passed out, but he was drunk and not in a rational state of mind and his punishment reflects that.
>>76495879
lel okay, he said he was sorry for drinking and doing drugs, he never admitted to committing any wrongful sexual act despite evidence suggesting that's exactly what he did as well as a consistent CONVICTION
>>76495898
meme? fuck off, your analogy doesn't even apply
>>76495936
You actually think that all of the perpetrators of the Cologne attacks were arrested and prosecuted?
>>76495987
Beats me, they aren't allowed to publish that kind of record. But I fail to see how that is relevant with the topic at hand
>>76496045
It's true, tho. A man will beg for you to have sex with him.
He is eager, hungry for the cock.
>>76496000
That's great and all but you're throwing your support behind a rapist
>>76496014
bingo
privilege and money. the girl even talks about this in her statement
>>76496104
I think that the police has done their utmost to uphold the law.
Which is not true in the Brock Turner case.
>>76493044
He a Jew? Looks like a Jew.
That's probably why he got off easy.
>>76496060
Well if there is witness statement of her initiating physical contact with him, then I understand the light sentencing.
>>76495630
Hey, some people start drinking later. I agree, it's her own responsibility to watch herself, but we have to at least take some pity on her, right? Maybe I'm fucking up. What kind of girl do you think she is? I'm thinking slightly new to drugs and alcohol, but has been a whore since 7th grade
>>76495936
>>since it was hardly a brutal rape that got her pregnant
>That's now how rape is defined.
My point was that there is an obvious spectrum of rape.
On one end you have the cliche "caveman bashes a girl over the head and fucks her while she's out leaving her pregnant and concussed"
and the other end you have well...this
"two college students get stupidly drunk. One passes out and the other touches her a bit"
This is obviously way WAY WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less severe than the first case and the punishment is adjusted accordingly.
>inb4 b-but the law dictates....
We literally have judges for the sole purpose of nullifying those legal dictations to adjust for context. That's why they're called arbitrators.
>>76495968
Fix your own growing shit before you worry about other peoples issues.
>>76495842
Your ancient grandpa wants you to waste the bitch and find a nice girl to settle with.
>>76496141
Don't you have some Olympics to prep for, Rio?
>>76496157
>Implying
The stats say otherwise. She's much more likely to be the initiatior in this conflagration. And until such time when women face the same rape consequences as men, falsified or not, I will never take the side of the woman. The likelihood simply isn't there.
>>76493044
Dubs checked
>>76496158
What about female privilege where you're just allowed to change your mind after having sex and call someone a rapist, or the fact that she doesn't have to take responsibility for her actions while intoxicated. Males clearly don't have either of those privileges
>>76496135
Sorry about your own shit first.
>>76493044
Is that George Micheal?
>>76496290
worry.
>>76496163
Didn't the mayor of Cologne basically blame the victims and urge German women not to dress in ways that might offend and entice muslims?
>>76496202
I guess I feel bad because she's obviously ashamed by what she did. But that doesn't mean you can just say 'oops, I mad a mistake, and can't take responsibility'
>>76496243
Yeah, she dragged herself behind the dumpster while she was so drunk she couldn't speak or stand up straight
>>76496092
Dickhead yes it does, if a woman can be held accountable for DUI, she can consent drunk
>>76496243
>Don't you have some Olympics to prep for, Rio?
Nah, man. It will get cancelled because of zika
>>76496221
>"two college students get stupidly drunk. One passes out and the other touches her a bit"
But that's not true. It was more like
>one college student gets stupidly drunk, passes out
>the other college student drinks, but is fully in control of his actions
>he then proceeds to take her behind a dumpster and rape her
>he is seen by two Swedes and attempts to run away
>>76495929
It is simply a fuck-up of the judge as responsibility for sentencing rests soully with the judge. All you need is better judicial oversight.
>>76495521
>admits to not remembering
>admits to willingly going to the party
>not drugged, except the alcohol that she knowingly and intentionally ingested
so explain to me what exactly is the court system supposed to do? are they supposed to prosecute and jail him for years because she THINKS, in retrospect, that she MAY not have said yes based on having cuts and dirt in her vagina after being fingered behind a dumpster by a guy who was just as drunk as her?
Does she have no responsibility at all to prove that a crime was even committed and that she didnt literally ask for it or consent to it?
Should we just take every sad female at her word if she claims to have been raped?
>>76496351
They were BOTH drunk. Funny how you leave that out.
>>76495936
>And all of them have been sentenced properly.
Have they? Not as far as I know. Please tell me how was say the guy who abused the 13-year-old girl punished. Was he deported? Is he still on free everything? Surely that must outrage a million times more than this case, right?
>>76495671
I agree wholeheartedly, and I believe prison is, and should be, primarily for housing rapists and murderers. But as far as how much prison time: what would you deem a more acceptable sentence? Or do you believe six months is enough? I'm trying to decide myself. I'm starting to retrace my steps and think, based on the evidence given, that it's more or less just.
>>76496335
people talk a lot of shit
All I know is that they arrested anyone they could get hold of.
>>76496035
How does any of that mean that men should be given more responsibility for their actions when drunk than women?
If a drunk girl can't give consent a drunk man can't give consent. If a drunk girl can't give consent, how is a drunk man supposed to know she can't give consent when she herself doesn't know?
This German poster is trying to singlehandedly take the title of most shitposting country from Canada.
>>76496351
Is there any documented proof she was 'dragged' behind a dumpster and didn't voluntarily go there? Or are you just making shit up? Because someone most likely would have seen this goofy kid dragging some chick into an alley
last name may be turner but there's a fair amount of jew in there to be sure
looks like the polish variety
>>76496014
Rich people get jail all the time. It's about who you know, not how much money you have. Same reason why Hillary Clinton hasn't been indicted yet.
>>76495956
i'm glad you despise them just as i do. i mean, i understand the board is extreme, i do. i was just taken aback by how brutally stupid the shit was that i was reading.
i shouldn't be surprised, i shouldn't but i still am as well as disappointed and disgusted in the same vein
>>76495940
except it doesn't matter what hypothetical scenarios you conjure or reference, it's not relevant to this situation or case at all.
but i'll humor you. in sexual assault and rape cases, women are generally not the instigator
she didn't insist that they have sex in this case, and women in cases such as these don't. it's the guy who forced it, and it's the guy who will likely be the culprit. doesn't even have to be a woman though, men rape/sexually assault other men more often than is known
>>76496387
Funny how he could still pull her away from the party and fuck her while she was unconcious. Woops I was drunk, raping unconcious people is a common mistake
>>76493044
>Stanford
this isn't patriarchy, this is oligarchy in action
fix your shit, America
>>76493044
C'mon, everybody knows WHY he is "rapist". Because he is NOT fuckin' Chad. And if you are not Chad, you are not allowed to sleep with females.
That's what happens when you try to "get laid" and "become normie" – you ruin your life. In poor environment you either get your ass badly beaten or, if you somehow succeed, catch a bunch of STDs. While in rich environment you will be most likely accused of rape and later beaten and raped in jail.
>>76496400
>Please tell me how was say the guy who abused the 13-year-old girl punished.
What is your problem? Are you mentally retarded? Perpetrators don't get caught on the same day, police is still looking for him.
Get lost.
>>76496464
>I'm going to change 4chan.jpg!
>>76496466
Because normal, non-rapist people regularly fuck in public. Oh I get it, it's because you're British that you're used to seeing that. Sorry, I don't live in Commiefornia or Bongistan. We fuck behind closed doors here.
>>76496439
For all anyone knows she could have dragged him.
What's even the point of fucking someone who is unconcious? May as well just beat off instead of fucking a dead fish
>>76496441
Yeah, that's what I thought. A Slav Jewess marrying a Goy or a pseudo-Jew, so the Slav-Jew features are pronounced.
>>76495398
Thanks britbro.
Yes there are piece of shit men out there that really do rape. It's a biological issue that will never be fixed as long as human beings fuck each other.
It's not, however, a cultural problem in this country, and is only being touted as such to reduce the percentage of white men who reproduce.
>>76495463
Can I move to your country? I love ceska zbrojovka pistols and bolt action rimfire rifles, and have two degrees in finance and business.
>>76493044
Fuck off /bro/ck didn't do anything wrong
>>76493451
Because you expect a nigger to do it, and do it again
Blacks and whites are not equal and should not be judged as if they are
He's getting registered as a sex offender anyway his life is over
>>76496349
Ok, we're on somewhat a common ground. This is what I'm trying to ask other anon: what would you sentence the dude to? How long?
>>76495208
The point is that families will continue to behave in this way as long as prisons are dens of corruption where people are basically tortured.
I;d probably would do the same for my son unless I believed he was a psychopath who couldn't be reasoned with and was certain he would go on to assault many more people.
It would weigh on my conscious, helping him avoid punishment and having a lawyer attack his victim on the stand but I'd still choose that over the knowledge that my I didn't do everything in my power to save him from a cruel fate that I didn't believe was truly just anyway.
>drug abuse is a victimless crime, my friend
Not usually. Drug addicts steal and are often violent. It's in their interest to get others addicted as well because that person may spend money on them (at least in the beginning) and they'll be rewarded by their dealers. And of course, there is never ending emotional abuse and manipulation of everyone close to them who is subject to this treatment for years. They are a terrible burden on their families and the wider community.
With drug addicts, it's easier to convince yourself that it's ok to defend and support them because they're only hurting your family but you have no guarantee of that and it's probably not the case.
So let me get this straight
>Man and woman get smashed
>Woman is slightly more smashed than man
>Man is going down on woman
>They're both in an alleyway
>So now the man is going to prison for 6 months because he's rich
Isn't this just another case of "Drunkards being drunkards"? Or did he purposefully drag her out back and manage to get his dick stuck in her very likely vacuous vagina?
>>76496335
The only time they haven't blamed the euro women for being raped is when they're ignoring the rapes entirely.
Thank god the jew media is boosting this story. It'd be a real shame if the euros upset about rape in their own countries did something about the muds instead of hand wringing about burgerstani college kids.
>>76496575
Nah don't worry he'll probably find some fat chick to leech off of
>>76496464
You still never directly answered my question. You talk about generalities and say women don't USUALLY instigate it. Well that statement is you admitting that sometimes they do, so what then?
But again answer the question of why a woman shouldn't be held responsible for agreeing fuck while she's drunk, but a man is held responsible for obliging her. Saying "well usually the woman isn't the one asking" is ignoring the entire question. The reason you're doing it is because you cannot logically explain why this double standard exists and why you think it's ok.
>>76496601
5 years
>>76496362
>When women drink they cannot control their thoughts or actions
>When men drink they have 100% of control of their thoughts and actions
Holy shit anon, you're a sexist one though.
Do you think that someone who is really drunk is able to work out that someone has lost consciousness? You're talking to someone, they're indicating they want to go back to your room.. have you ever BEEN drunk? Shit doesn't follow logically.
And he didn't try to run away from the swedes because they "caught him doing something wrong". They saw him touching a girl and started yelling at him because they assume, like many people would, that if a man is touching a woman it must be rape.
He was not, in his mind, at the time, "raping" her. He was drunk as fuck. He made no plans, and seriously I doubt he even remembers it.
>>76494013
6months is 3 months with good behaviour...
>>76496263
people who do that are fucked in the head, that's the exception not the rule.
and she certainly has to take responsibility for her actions while intoxicated, but being assaulted while drunk? how is she supposed to take responsibility for that? someone who is heavily intoxicated cannot consent to sexual conduct
>>76496355
nah that isn't the same thing sorry
>>76496384
court system convicted him unanimously via jurors of 3 felonies, all addressing his sexual assault
the court system was doing an okay job until the judge sentenced the kid to 6 months for THREE FUCKING FELONIES
she was sexually assaulted, i don't get what about that you don't understand. that was the verdict. the kid was guilty and he got off easy because he's a rich white prick kid with a silver spoon so far up his ass his tongue is probably shiny
>>76496453
>Rich people get jail all the time.
>Same reason why Hillary Clinton hasn't been indicted yet.
So which one is it?
>>76496421
Ah yes, the final report revealed 126 gang-rapes and three months later do you know how many of these monkeys were convicted? Are you ready?
ONE.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/636944/Cologne-sex-attacks-list-crimes
http://www.express.de/koeln/nach-silvesteruebergriffen-erster-angeklagter-ist-verurteilt-23617988
None of the other 1000+ Arab men were punished obviously. You know who got punished though? The people who leaked the information of the attacks, the people who denounced the mass rapes.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/06/cologne-govt-looks-prosecute-nye-whistle-blowers/
But yeah, you think the police has done their utmost to uphold the law, and that's all that matters.
>>76496290
By that logic nobody is allowed to criticise anyone
>>76493044
He raped her. Plain and simple. Just look at him. He looks like a fucking molester.
>>76496722
Fucking misquote me, cuck. The money doesn't matter. It's who the Clintons' know.
Both were drunk as fuck
Girl had a boyfriend, didn't want to come off as a slut for hooking up drunk
Accuses guy if rape. Tic tac toe
>>76493044
We are he's going to prison for rape. At the same time the girl who was raped doesn't need to inflame the paranoia of the populous by stating shit about college rape statistics that are not true.
Also get used to seeing this happen on a local level friend.
t. Gercucked
>>76496693
>that's the exception not the rule.
And here we see the problem, children. When confronted again and again by evidence that contradicts his beliefs, the redditor will refuse to change his viewpoint, instead insisting that women who abuse their power and privilege are the "exception, not the rule," even though when taken as a percentage, women who abuse SOME kind of authority, be it spousal, societal, governmental, or other power, ranks well over 50%.
>>76496362
>>the other college student drinks, but is fully in control of his actions
Are men just magically immune tot he effects of alcohol in your mind?
He had been drinking just the same as anybody else there.
>>he then proceeds to take her behind a dumpster and rape her
"rape" her
You're really not getting this idea of the spectrum of rape are you? We have several ways of classifying murder. In you mind I'm sure you'd think "but there's only one way to kill someone!" but the law is far more flexible than your little mind can apparently comprehend.
Point being, he didn't really rape her. It was a far less serious offense but an offense nonetheless.
Let me say, yet again, this guy is scum and I'm not defending him but your constant and basic misunderstanding of how laws work is very frustrating.
>>76496407
I think prison in general is a retarded idea based on the false pretense of rehabilitation. The only effective deterrent is a punishment that is actually terrifying and prison does not fit that bill as it is.
So no, I don't think any prison sentence would suffice but the sex offender registry will do well to make him regret it.
>>76496689
Someone hasn't been reading my other posts.
And on that bombshell, I'm going the fuck to sleep.
G'night faggots.
>>76496693
>court system convicted him unanimously via jurors of 3 felonies, all addressing his sexual assault
how exactly? its not hard for an attractive young female to convince a cherry picked group of people of something. is there ANY solid evidence that she did not consent? if not, the judge was entirely in the right.
>>76496682
What a weak fucking drunk you must be. You totally lose control of your mind? She wasn't moving but I'm pretty sure she wanted me to stick my dick in her
>>76494633
I had just two issues, both conflicting each other.
1) If she was so drunk that she passed out unconscious at a dump, did no one really notice her leaving to go out in that state? And no matter what state, he could nor have made her go if she wasn't willing to.
2) why did that guy run and start crying instead of just standing there, explaining that she WAS conscious while doing it and did consent but JUST passed out.
These confused me
>>76496464
Sorry for the rough edges. I'm not gonna lie, this board has changed me. You'll get used to it, eventually become as desensitized as we are, and wish you could go back. My advice: run now
>>76496693
>literally cannot refute my point
Back to Plebbit cuck
>>76496772
And they know people because they have lots of money. And the people they know also has lots of money
>>76496746
>All I know is that they arrested anyone they could get hold of.
You have to admit that he's not wrong, it's a lot easier to get a hold of people complaining about the situation than to find the people actually causing the problem.
>>76493044
he looks like such a subhuman no surprise readdit (this board) is identifying with him
getting " diddled " not a big deal? you can prove that to psychologists when cops bust down your moms door and send you to prison
>>76496829
Pussy. You're part of the fucking problem.
>>76496673
>so what then
i dunno show me a case where that happens, then we can talk about it like you want but until then this is just straying away from the main issues of downplaying
show me a case where both parties consent while drunk and the man is punished but the woman is not
WHOEVER instigates sexual acts while both parties are drunk, regardless of gender, that person is committing a felony
it's not a double standard, it's the law
>>76496682
>drunk people can't tell when someone is unconscious
have YOU ever been drunk? you have to be some crazy kind of stupid to think someone who is limp and not talking or responding is conscious. alcohol doesn't even factor in here
the kid ran because he was finger her by a dumpster while she was UNCONSCIOUS
>>76496629
that's brilliant, if you get wasted you're suddenly not accountable for your decisions. the next time someone robs a bank or something they should just have a little booze beforehand and they can claim: hurrr I was drunk, so it doesn't count
>>76496757
You have your own rape problems so don't go gawking at how horrible others problem is.
You just sound like someone trying to feel better about your own situation.
No one asks a bum for financial advice.
>>76496899
>WHOEVER instigates sexual acts while both parties are drunk, regardless of gender, that person is committing a felony
>it's not a double standard, it's the law
i hope you dont actually believe a woman will ever be convicted for this. meanwhile, men are held responsible for it all the time
>the kid ran because he was finger her by a dumpster while she was UNCONSCIOUS
do you have any evidence of that?
Act like a nigger? Hang like a nigger.
>>76496693
She did consent while drunk. But the law says that her consenting while drunk doesn't count, because she may not be acting normally due to her alcohol consumption. So if her verbally consenting to getting fucked next to a dumpster doesn't count, then why should the act of fucking count. If she can't control her brain to say 'no' then why should a man have to control his brain for acting on her saying 'yes'
>jewish man rapes white woman
>(((somehow))) only gets a 6 months
>"WHITE" PRIVILEGE!!!
>IF HE WAS BLACK YOU JUST KNOW HE'D BE IN THERE FOR LONGER!
>FUCK WHITE PEOPLE, KILL THEM ALL!
>WHITES ALWAYS GET OFF EASY
>THERE'S NO WAY I CAN TRUST WHITE MEN ANYMORE! JAMAL, WHERE ARE YOU? TAKE ME AWAY AND HAVE BABIES WITH ME!
>NO MORE WHITE MEN!
>
