why do you assume the Republican party is a real party?

it exists only to give Americans an illusion of choice

>>70087468
Southern Democrats.

Many of the die hard red States these days used to be Democrat, until the 70s.

What happened in the 70s?

Forced integration of schools and the civil rights movement. Kennedy alienated the existing southern Democrats and the Republicans swept them up, forming a new southern religious conservative base in the Republican party that changed its makeup, much like the tea party and neocons are doing today.

Trump is nothing more than the manifestation of alleged Republican ideals and rhetoric (barring his comical lack of religiosity)

This is why they could not, and cannot. Stump the Trump. He takes the Republican party's stances and rhetoric over the last quarter century to their logical conclusion, including increased appeal to low income and high income white Americans, nationalists, Christian religions blocs and fiscal conservatives.

>>70087643
look I'm aware that a lot of americans think it's a "stepped on by the felt foot, stepped on by the right foot" kind of dynamic, but at the end of the day the presidents adgenda has a real affect on the lives of americans because it's not entirely illusory

when I heard about trump I legitimately thought he was a straw candidate suported covertly by liberals to ebmarass the republicans

I still suspect liberals didn't attack him very well at the beging just so he gained traction

their invested in supporting weaker members from other parties, somethign I think americans arn't really aware of

>>70087867
The idea that Trump is secretly a dem plant has come up.and has been slung by Cruz a few times. And historically, he was mostly Democratic.

The thing is you can say the same about Hillary and being a Republican. Her entry into politics was campaigning for Reagan for God sakes.

>>70087823
so you think he's the manifestation of the sourthern ex-democrat element that was left behind when democraft became properly socialist?
and that he is an organic candidate that represents the south?

it would make sense, but why would the republicans allow it?
do they think that supporting him in the short term ties southern republicans into the party long term?

I can only see it causing a spit in the republicans as moderate Republican elements struggle to compromise with him because he has built so much kudos as being an uncompromising figure
they will reach the Winston churchhil dielemma

>>70087999
>The thing is you can say the same about Hillary and being a Republican.
some are real people who are fickle, some are souless pollitical players
so I wouldn't rule anythign out to be honest

but at the end of the day, the plant is intent on dividing a voting bloc or leading them astray
some candidates are just included to give a variety of alternatives within a party, which i think hillary has done well

>>70088133
The Republicans AREN'T supporting him is the issue. They've got a full scale revolt from their constituency at this point, partially because they embraced the Tea Party and other Grass Roots movements early on in order to push back against Obama, who they felt threatened by due to his early immense populist support. Before that they were a fringe group who hated high taxes.

Trump isn't part of the party plan, and they can't do anything about it because he's become a dark horse candidate. Regarded as a joke early on, now he has momentum and power and endorsements. Horse bolted out of the barn and they're trying to close the door

Constantly kissing minority ass is why we are in this mess.

>>70088803
I'm not so sure
at the end of the day they either endore him or not
there is no avoiding that, and they should know it

they should nominate him for president, plan to loose and not upset the liberals, give them an easy win; then shelve trump quietly

and that why I say initially "how did the republicans back themselves into a corner so badly"

they COULD have stopped him early, they SHOULD have known how easy it is to gain traction with fringe groups in the south

and it was the republican media behind him so strongly, they had control over that

it just seems unbelievable the republican strategists fucked it up so badly
obama was retiring, they should have played Hilary against obamas legacy to upset the liberals, and not let obama stay so quiet on contencious issues

obama was and is toxic to the south, republicans should have picked a safe candidate for the south

>>70087468
>How did the US republicans back themselves so badly into a corner with trump?

Trump is just the result of the Republican Party catering to the interests of the wealthy over the interests of the common man for the last 30 or so years

Trump just realized that he can skip the middleman and run for president himself

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He came because Republitards have been sewing distrust in the political establishment for years, Tea Party is a tree that grows in the same soil. Then, when he was popular, they threw their weight against his groundswell instead of backing him because, frankly, he can't be controlled by them. So basically, they built the ship hes leading a mutiny on, then they're left sitting in a rubber dingy shooting potato guns at him telling their enemies where to strike at the boat they built.

I think as it all stands right now, Shillary will win if Donald doesn't work on minorities and women. His policies are pretty sound, and if any country were to try and go protectionist and actually pull it off, it'd be America.

However Trump, and his fans, need to realize that the 'Silent Majority' is like putting your faith in something you can't see, hear or feel. It might work. But it probably won't, so hes got a better chance if he actually tries to be a politician instead of a businessman. Honestly, i'm hoping his retarded word salad meme answers in debates is just a trick and he will come fucking swinging in debates against shillary / komrade sanders with numbers, facts ect, but i highly doubt that.

All this being said, i think you're a faggot and completely overblowing the importance of the rest of the world in American elections, or even American economy.

Just sit back and let it all burn famalam, our politics may be a fucking farce, but atleast we don't have a fucking commie running for head office.

>>70089277
>they COULD have stopped him early, they SHOULD have known how easy it is to gain traction with fringe groups in the south

Yes they should have, but I believe you're mistaken in believing they supported him
. they regarded him as a joke. It wasn't until he actually started sweeping votes that they went oh shit wtf is this. He's basically been at WAR with the Republican media, particularly fox news and smaller scale conservative radio jockeys. But he runs his own hype machine so hard it doesn't matter

>>70087468
>See's slew of simply untrue BS
>Looks at flag
>Oi m8 mee kangaroo
Every. Single. Time

>>70089395
maybe there is some truth in that
his claims for being for the common man wouldn't have flown in many countries, but in america anythign is possible

he problem is that taking the line he has, he runs his own chances in the long term

he has been inconsistant, put his foot in many very sensitive issues, made mand enemies, and spoken out against people he may well end up needing later on

JFK had the same issue

>>70087468
Brain washed by media sh1t posting aussie

>>70090093
>JFK had the same issue
Try to find a more beloved president then JFK. whatever the reality of the man was he's basically been sainted by history. Aside from the whole dying thing it kinda worked out for JFK

>>70089529
see I thought that "war" was made deliberatly to set him up as an anti-authoritarian figure, and to allow him to maintain hype without having to make hard policy calls

the "they thought I was a joke" line is transparent, everyone likes an under-dog and I for one don't buy it

>>70089546
>didn't read my post
>doesn't have a counter-argument
>resorts to ad hominim

>>70090196
I don't believe americans could be as gullible as people say
if a candidate hasn't made a stand on fundamental policy issues like economics, IR, or governance what are you actually voting for?

>>70090546
Well, to be fair, Trump has come out with stances and economic plans. Just not at his rallies or speeches. His website has that though.

And no, I strongly suspect the aversion to Trump is real. Simply because they thought he was a joke candidate of no consequence who'd get blown out in the first few caucauses. Trump wasn't even a consideration, this isn't even the first time he's run or talked about running.

Then people latched onto him precisely because his bombast and complete lack of a filter was cathartic to them after decades of politispeak.

In the end though, people are voting for the hype. It's not Trump they love, its NOT-POLITICIAN they love. Which is the same reason Hillary is getting hammered among younger voters.

Also, rebuttal: Tony Abbot

>>70087468
Australia with the shitposting as usual; we're going to take your crown and there's nothing you can do to stop it you emu-loving penal colony

>>70090890
Idk this is the closest thing to a sane discussion I've ever seen on /pol/

>>70087867
Yeah I think you're right.

>>70090346
well JFK's pollicies lined up very strongly with those of the decades after his death

whether that makes him forward thinking or lucky is hard to say

but my point is that he made enemies he couldn't fight
he allowed himself to be sniped from the shadows (no pun intended)

siminarlt trump will be attacked from all sides no matter where he goes pollitically, and will find it hard when he has to make hard calls when he has come so strongly on one side

he has taken a absolute stand on issues that will sway in the future

>>70087867
>it's not entirely illusory

kek

The President has been a glorified cheerleader ever since they limited the powers of the presidency

>>70090840
This

>>70090840
>Tony Abbott

That's the bit OP alluded to in his first post. If he somehow does win, he'll destroy Republican credibility.

Tony Abbott has destroyed conservatism in Australia. His party is actively at war with itself and are down in the polls, at fundraising and membership. They've all but one election at a state level since he was elected and will lose the federal election even though the party has already replaced him.

>>70091032
Oh no doubt Trump won't be able.to get a damn thing done politically, unless he somehow maintains his messianic popularity long enough then his opponents will get swept out of Congress by his supporters.

I genuinly think he could beat Hillary in a general election though, because even I would vote for him (I'm a burnie cuck) over that fucking robot lizard woman

The media is more responsible for alienating minorities by spinning everything out of context and missing half his policies. Except blacks, they alienate themselves as it gives them something to moan about

>>70091175
>That's the bit OP alluded to in his first post. If he somehow does win, he'll destroy Republican credibility.
>Tony Abbott has destroyed conservatism in Australia. His party is actively at war with itself and are down in the polls, at fundraising and membership. They've all but one election at a state level since he was elected and will lose the federal election even though the party has already replaced him.

But that's what's happening to the Republicans now. They're keeping it behind closed doors but there's basically a civil war in the party and it's been brewing for Obama's term. And now it's busting out with the Trump-Cruz divide (with the moderate Kaysich ignored like usual jesus why is he even still in the race is he hoping for a double murder suicide so he can win by default?)

>>70090840
>Well, to be fair, Trump has come out with stances and economic plans. Just not at his rallies or speeches. His website has that though.
TOP FUCKING KEK

look man, I'l give the benefit of the doubt to credit, but that is too far

anyone who believes his "mission and values" statement is an economic policy is a clinical retard
no details, no costings, no figures, no sources

fuck that man, no way known

>>70091351
You'll get no disagreement from me, in just playing devil's advocate.

>>70087999
>trump is secretly a dem plant

This meme really needs to die

$hillery's competition before Trump was Yeb "pls clap" Bush the turtle and this was also when fucking O'malley was more relevant than Bernie, she was practically anointed as the next president like two years ago.

I highly doubt Trump would throw away any chance he would have at living a normal life again perpetually being a target even if it $hillery is his best friend

>>70087468
GOP leaders don't know what the fuck they are doing, they have nothing but limp dick candidates to push fowward, none of them have even a quarter of the charisma of Trump
they don't stand for anything, they don't have any big ideas to make them stand out
what is Cruz going to do if he becomes president? I have no fucking clue, he just looks like an overweight rat
what is Trump going to do (or at least proposing to do)? make America great again, build wall, reform taxes, bring manufacturing jobs back, etc.

in short the GOP has no effective leadership

>>70091531
Didn't say I believed it, just that it's come up. Cruz likes to harp on it.

For my part I assumed Trump was crazy like a fox, his biggest asset is his name and these days his biggest business is promotion and slapping his name on things.

So run for president, stir up some shit, achieve memetic fame and status, withdraw gracefully when the race gets hot and basically double your worth and earning power. Laugh all the way to the bank as you lose.

But he hasn't dropped out, and his popularity hasn't waned. and anyone thinking Wisconsin is the beginning of the end is reaching. If Trump doesn't win nom he'll run 3rd party and we'll see a political shakeuo we haven't seen since the Bull and Moose attempt.

>>70091126
giving the president more powers makes a literal dictatorship

in a democracy everythign should have to go through the elected representatives in a way that's proportional to their number of suporters

go to far with that and you get italian parliment
but go the other way and people see the president as a tyrant

...which the republicans do

so lesson there

>>70091835
>but go the other way and people see the president as a tyrant
>...which the republicans do

both parties are statist as fuck, don't be fucking delusional

>>70091680
Let's not forget Jeb was the GOP's golden calf at the start of the race, and Trump smacked him down effortlessly

>>70091902
Agree, Democrats just want everything to be federally controlled while Reps subcontract to cronies and business partners.

Nepotism isn't a meme, its alive and well here in the south

>>70092050
>alive and well in the south
and the north
and the midwest

>>70092018
Poor Jeb might have had a chance but he was the wrong candidate for the wrong era, and history has only just started to soften on his brother. Just as well, the last thing we need is more dynastisim

>>70091779
I still highly doubt it

Not like he was fading to obscurity where he would need to pull off such an extreme ruse at the expense of his and his families security

There are safer and more logical ways he can promote his brand name and bolster his net worth without him now having to watch his back every few seconds from some illegal cartel spic, Dindu, or another sociopathic leftist with a gun while being loathed by the most dangerous and volatile groups here

>>70087468
Decent bait. You got some retard bites.

Congrats 5/8 mate

>>70092122
Nobody was going to vote for another Bush, Jeb's pitiful polling numbers are evidence of that

He did so poorly in SC that he wasn't even listed in the results

>>70087468


And the best alternative is Cruz. That's very sad.

>>70091229
ut like Isaid in the OP

if he gets voted in, he won't be able to undo the damage hehas done in some electorates, he will be at risk of being backstabbed because of the nasty attacks against colleagues he made

and if he acts on his promises he will be mad
and if he doesn't he will seem weak

and when, not if he has to make hard calls, he will loose his supoters quickly because they won;t be open to him compromising

>>70091317

>>70092501
Sounds like Obama.

Though most of the asspain was on the Rep side there

Being too reconciliatory is a liability, as Obama's admin can show

>>70091317
oh come one anon

he used the media to create hype rather than explain policy or create credibility with achademics and administrators

while some things like his abortion stance were taken out of context, with what he has said explicitly, it doesn't seem fair to blame the media for alienating minorities either; he just lacks subtlty
and that makes him easy to outmaneuver

>>70092597

>Being too reconciliatory is a liability, as Obama's admin can show


How has Obama been 'reconciliatory', you loon?

>>70092769
Letting his insurance bill get raped into the POS it is now

Not.moving hard on reform when he had a dem Congress to rubber stamp his bills

If he had rushed shit through he could've simply vetoed opposition for the next 8 years and let attrition ammend the hurt feelings

He spent his entire first term dithering and trying to unite the parties

>>70091902
but taking power from the president is a key measure in anti-authoritatianism

if you want a better pollitical culture, shift the focus from the figurehead to the policies

at the risk of sounding critical, in austrlia there is a real policy focus, polliticians debate the ins and outs of implimentation, stakeholders debate directly, polliticians loose major points for undeclared policy and slow administrative response etc

>>70092331
actually we got some sensible debate
from an australian OP
about trump of all things

I should get a medal

>>70092473
cruz seems lackluster, but I think partially that is due to trump taking so much of the media space

cruz has really had to stay quiet to avoid coliding with the trump supporters, and trupm doesn't exactly telegraph or co-ordinate his moves

I think the republican strategists are to blame really

>>70092971

He got a grand total of one republican vote for his health care plan. All his concessions were to hospital and insirance lobbyists. He conceded nothing to the opposition in the legislature.

>>70092597
haha I don't think so, I think obama had a consistant enough in-party support to be sainted after he retires

he caused a LOT of butpain for the republicans
I think by showing when he was wounded he mad ethe republicans look like they were a win at all cost party, when the republicans caused a financial block they sealed that branding

>>70087468

Flag checks out.

Keep up the good work.

>>70093314
but see the benefits in doing that

by giving the republicans time to object instead of rubber stamping, he robbed them of credibility when they attaked him later, because he could say "why didn't you say all that before I passed the bills", true or not I think people were won over by this

and it was a very very un-tyranical move, which hurt the republican attacks against him on that front

when the republicans blocked him, he played them as obstructive
and they walked right into that with their rhetoric, loosing marginal republicans who wanted progress

>>70092769
>How has Obama been 'reconciliatory', you loon?

Are you kidding? Obama has basically spent most of his term bending over backwards to try to appease the GOP

Most recently with his Supreme Court nomination

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>>70093683
>comes into my thread to shitpost
>calls australians shitposters

>>70093897

If you think ramming a shitty healthcare bill down everyone's throat was a smart move . . . whatever.

>>70093065
>but taking power from the president is a key measure in anti-authoritatianism
>if you want a better pollitical culture, shift the focus from the figurehead to the policies
I agree with you, but I fail to see how that is relevant when talking about how both parties are extremely statist.

>>70090346
After his death before that he was hated by alot

>>70094117
Well, of course it was shitty, it was originally a Republican health care plan after all

>>70093971


>Most recently with his Supreme Court nomination


He doesn't have any other options on this. How is that "bending over backwards"?

>>70094251


>Well, of course it was shitty, it was originally a Republican health care plan after all

That's just pure bullshit.

>>70094313
>He doesn't have any other options on this.

He could have nominated a better candidate, and just ram him through

As it stands we may actually get that Merrick guy instead of someone like Sri Srinivasan who is actually good

>>70094117
>If you think ramming a shitty healthcare bill down everyone's throat was a smart move

the republicans made some really sucessfull attacks when he did this

but that's about the time obama started painting the republicans as obstructionists

and obama had salve for the republican's attack on his healthcare, because it was a more moderate version of what many countries like canada, britain, australia, and most of europe had already done

and because he clearly wasn't pushing it for pollitical points, it added a lot to his credebility; like howards gun control reform

>>70094394
"Romneycare" was the foundation of Obamacare

>>70094084
I was just waiting for this Prom Queens Getting Blacked video to download.

>>70094546
>He could have nominated a better candidate, and just ram him through
Obama can't "ram through" a supreme court appointment.

>>70094147
because a president who makes moves without visible party suport gets called a tyrant

that hurts republicans more than democrats because republicans are more freedom loving

and it hurts trump tripple

so if trump gets in, he will have to act with no support and look like a hypocrite for calling out the government for being tyrants

he will be throwing out tools he will need later

>>70087468
I'm tired of these proxies.

You clearly don't live in a state that's airing the attack ads, they are all attacking trump.

Poll attendance is UP, people are not being alienated

People freaking out over Wisconsin...and it is one of the lamest states in the union. Ooo some breweries and dairy farms. They've been more blue every year anyways most republicans have been writing Wisconsin off anyways

Still doesn't change that every other politician is going to have to address trumps radical positions for the next decades, because clearly the platform is there but for a 'nicer' guy (but in reality he's an ok candidate, most people now a days are just big pussies)

>>>>70094906
From a perspective of historicity, Trump is not particularly offensive, though I would argue he's ineloquent and perhaps, unqualified. These things are irrelevant and can be supported by excellent staff choices however. What really concerns e about Trump is his grandeur complex, these are obvious and potent psychological levers that someone like Putin could easily manipulate

Also it kinda seems like he wants to fuck his daughter. Still, he's #3 choice in my voting list after Sanders and Kaysich

>>70087468
>court stupid fucks
>wonder why your lawn is on fire

>>70094906
>Poll attendance is UP, people are not being alienated
I mean he is alienating moderates in his own party, and turning minority groups against the republicans who wouldn't normaly vote in numbers

trump is under attack NOW, now that the media sees his own party is reluctant to support him

he has made enemies too fast, failed to reach out to non republicans, and upset the international community who are horrified someoen as outrageous as trump could have got so close to the presidency

>>70087468

because for some reason this election cycle was like 2.5 years long.

they're usually only 1 year long.

probably because the house/senate just stonewall everything so they got bored of obama.

>>70089395
So the result of elite Republicans catering to the wealthy is the masses of Republicans catering to one wealthy guy.

Literally Trump was part of the problem. He outsourced jobs to China and Mexico and paid off American politicians to control their votes. And now suddenly he will stop corruption?

Dumb on so many levels.

>>70096140
Oh, the GOP masses love the rich, being wealthy is seen as a sign of success, because the average Republican sees himself as a temporarily embarrassed millionaire

Trump saw this and figured "fuck it, why not?"

>>70096140
I think the point is that someone like him is the only one who actually could stop corruption(and maybe bernie but somehow i doubt he got to this point without owing some favors). Will he? I have no idea honestly probably not because his own interests lie with keeping the coruption going. The government is pretty much entirely owned by lobbyists and they aren't even hiding it, it's infuriating. I think some people just think "fuck it if trump goes nuclear and just fucks shit all up, it's already wrecked beyond repair anyway". and many even want that.

>>70096548
>the average Republican sees himself as a temporarily embarrassed millionaire

can I use that?

>>70096769
I dunno, take it up with John Steinbeck

>>70096767
Frankly that's how I see things. Either Trump would be the surprise greatest president ever, or the worst president ever and destroy everything. Either way it all comes crashing down.