Who were some of the most red-pilled people to ever exist?
Alexis de Tocqueville was cool for a liberal French faggot. Here are some quotes:
>Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.
>Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.
>I do not know if the people of the United States would vote for superior men if they ran for office, but there can be no doubt that such men do not run.
He also predicted the current SJW problem. The Tocqueville Effect is based off his observation that as social conditions improve people turn into more butthurt pissbabies faster. What we call Marxism might be more tocquevillism(not a real word) because Marxism is caused by poor social conditions, while Tocqueville Effect is caused by good social conditions.
According to Wikipedia:
>The Tocqueville effect refers to the phenomenon that as social conditions and opportunities improve, social frustration grows faster. The effect is based on Alexis de Tocqueville's observations on the French Revolution and later reforms in Europe and the United States. Another way to describe the effect is the aphorism "the appetite grows by what it feeds on". For instance, after greater social justice is achieved, there may be more fervent opposition to even smaller social injustices than before.
>How Tocqueville Anticipated Our Culture Of Dependency And how we can fix it
http://thefederalist.com/2014/02/21/how-tocqueville-anticipated-our-culture-of-dependency/
>Obama’s Tocqueville Effect and the Rise of Bernie Sanders
http://egbertowillies.com/2016/02/05/obamas-tocqueville-effect-and-the-rise-of-bernie-sanders/
>>69879539
This was a thoughtful intelligent post, and I learned a little. Problem is you're making an intelligent post on the internet's shit stain. This thread will never get above 5 replies because it is not hyperbolic, not baiting anyone, and contains no memes. /pol/ has degraded into an extra racist /b/. Moderators don't evem seem to be removing porn anymore. This is not a place for intelligent discourse and you are probably better off on a somewhat decent board like /his/. Pic related shows the type of stupid shit you're competing with.
As for the topic. Irving Babbitt was the type of thinker that simply doesn't exist anymore. Go read Democracy and Leadership if you haven't yet. His thoughts on absolute morality and the born rights of citizens is ingrained in contemporary conservative theory. Unfortunately conservatism has morphed into an unrecognizable shapeless blob. Conservatism should be steadfast and consistent, but it has become whatever is politically convenient.
KC tier
>>69879539
>The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Tocqueville was so fucking based.
>>69879539
From now on, it is no longer "cultural marxism'', its "Tocquevillism"
I'll read up on the nigga, thnx op
>>69881710
/pol/ has definitely changed. I'm not really interested in this subject and I'm halfway apologetic for derailing it, but I'm commenting because the thread IS encouraging thoughtful discussion.
I started a thread the other day about /pol/ over the years, and I was derailed instantly by meme posters saying I was trying to derail "important" threads. You know, threads like memes and such.
>>69882615
>>69879539
>tried to end the federal reserve
Huxley, Orwell, Dostoevsky, JFK, Roosevelt, Bobby Fischer, Stallman and Linus etcetera
>>69879539
got nothing to contribute, but this is a damn good thread, so I'm bumping it
George Orwell.
obligatory
>>69879539
>people still dont know that freedom and anarchy are the same thing
wow, how about people try to understand the concepts they are talking about?
Restricting peoples behaviour isnt freedom faggots.
If people want to rape,murder,or steal they are free to do so
If they want to vote themselves out of voting they are able to
Democracy is as much a way to socialism as it is to anything else the collective wants.
Libertarians and other government lovers need to understand that freedom and government cant co-exist
>>69883252
>>people still dont know that freedom and anarchy are the same thing
libertarianism =/= ancap
>>69882564
Agreed. Im holding out hope that we can right the ship after the electiin. Also, bumping a good thread
>>69883437
yes..
thats my point
but i would go even further and say
anarchy =/= freemarket capitalism, libertarianism
>>69879539
Idont think you can have a redpilled persons discussion without a discussion of Plato. Plato not only famously came up with the stuff like the cave analogy and built a philosophy school that influenced like everything western, but he is also our primary source of knowledge of socrates.
>>69879539
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money."
>>69879539
>Democracy extends the sphere of individual freedom, socialism restricts it. Democracy attaches all possible value to each man; socialism makes each man a mere agent, a mere number. Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word: equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.
I think I know this game...
Thomas Carlyle ftw
>>69882985
Canada is already making busts of Justin Trudeau?
>>69884369
>come on guys lets conquer the world, after all, it's 330 BC
>>69884684
>yfw Alexander actually was a progressive for his time period.
Not redpilled, but holy shit, the absolute roman madman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elagabalus
>Elagabalus tried to have his presumed lover, the charioteer Hierocles, declared Caesar
>He stirred further discontent when he himself married the Vestal Virgin Aquilia Severa, claiming the marriage would produce "godlike children"
>WITH A FUCKING VESTAL
>In order to become the high priest of his new religion, Elagabalus had himself circumcised. He forced senators to watch while he danced around the altar of Deus Sol Invictus to the accompaniment of drums and cymbals.
>Cassius Dio reported that Elagabalus would paint his eyes, epilate his hair and wear wigs before prostituting himself in taverns, brothels and even in the imperial palace
Overall really down to earth guy you would say.
>>69879539
The links are pretty good reads, especially the first one.
>This is, Tocqueville believed, a new kind of oppression, different from the cruel tyrants of the ancient world. Despotism in America “would be more widespread and milder; it would degrade men rather than torment them.” American tyranny will not rob and kill people. It would be “absolute, thoughtful of detail, orderly, provident, and gentle.” It appears benign, but has the subtly dangerous effect of engendering a culture of dependency. “It would resemble parental authority if, father-like, it tried to prepare its charges for a man’s life, but on the contrary, it only tried to keep them in perpetual childhood.” It grows so large and powerful that it does not just push out the private sector; it pushes out individual agency. “It provides for their security, foresees and supplies their necessities, facilitates their pleasures, manages their principal concerns, directs their industry, makes rules for their testaments, and divides their inheritances. Why should it not entirely relieve them from the trouble of thinking and all the cares of living? Thus it daily makes the exercise of free choice less useful and rarer, restricts the activity of free will within a narrower compass, and little by little robs each citizen of the proper use of his own faculties.” It does not kill men, but it does kill their spirits.
>>69881710
>t. reddit tourist from 2015
I've had truly intellectual discussion on the worst of the worst boards, including the likes of /tv/ and /pol/. Fuck off with your bullshit.
>>69885187
Classic Paul Dano
>“That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”
>>69879539
Great post, keep doing god's work. Good to see something actually worth reading on pol.
Another vote for Orwell who, amongst other things, red-pilled on Stalinism as a result of fighting in the Spanish Civil War
>The Spanish war and other events in 1936-7 >turned the scale and thereafter I knew where I >stood. Every line of serious work that I have >written since 1936 has been written, directly >or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for >democratic Socialism, as I understand it. It >seems to me nonsense, in a period like our >own, to think that one can avoid writing of >such subjects.
>It is almost universally felt that when we call a >country democratic we are praising it; >consequently, the defenders of every kind of >regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear >that they might have to stop using the word if >it were tied down to any one meaning.
>In my opinion, nothing has contributed so >much to the corruption of the original idea of >socialism as the belief that Russia is a >socialist country and that every act of its >rulers must be excused, if not imitated. And >so for the last ten years, I have been >convinced that the destruction of the Soviet >myth was essential if we wanted a revival of >the socialist movement.
>Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception.
>The nationalist not only does not disapprove >of atrocities committed by his own side, but >he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.
>We of the sinking middle class may sink >without further struggles into the working >class where we belong, and probably when >we get there it will not be so dreadful as we feared, for, after all, we have nothing to lose.
>>69883252
Government and freedom can coexist, the government just needs to be properly controlled. You need to realize that government is not a class or a group in a democratic society, as it would be in others, but rather that it is a tool, something that man can hold, wield, and then put down. The government does not seek to do anything against the people because when the people do not convene there is no active government.
Of course, there's the whole minority issue within a true democracy, but in attempting to stop this a republic makes a class that seeks to defy the will of the majority, which defies the entire purpose of democracy in the first place.
Marcus Aurelius, Arthur Shopenhauer, Nietzsche, Camus for the most part
Pretty much everybody born before 20th cenutry
>>69879539
Richard Wagner. An important influence on Nietzsche, he was described by him as a reserved traditionalist against his perceived decadence of the day. They had a falling out as Nietzsche didn't respect Wagner's Christianity. Many of his works psychologically explored dreams before the likes of Freud.
>>69884032
Replace ''democracy'' with INTERNET in this sentence
Now you realize the irony of Internet anonymity. Realizing democracy is a bad thing is also realizing the Internet is as well.
I mean honestlye and you are just deluded commoners who think they're intellectuals
>>69886238
I like it how you right wing 'tards appropriate everything and everyone. from black bloc tactics to decentralized action, from Orwell to Kaczynski. You DO realize Orwell was a socialist for his entire life, right?
The Internet itself is basically responsible for the breakdown of modern society.
It's the communication of technology and speech
>>69888282
The key difference is that people have no real power on the internet, its only an extension of world around it
Stop thinking of the internet as a separate entity from the real world
Marxists ruined him.
>>69881710
>you are probably better off on a somewhat decent board like /his/
Not really. No 4chan board is far from the average.
Not to hijack OPs thread but this is really interesting. I'm thinking of getting Tocqueville's "Democracy in America: complete and unabridged version" , and yesterday I added "The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius" to my reading list. I don't read a lot but I feel the gears turning and would like to learn more.
What are some more recommended things I should read up on?
>>69889005
A very red pilled book is "tragedy and hope" by Caroll Quigley, unfortunately it is 1000 pages and difficult to find
>>69889005
Shopenhauer Essays and Aphorisms. He was a pessimistic person but he knew what he was talking about. Here's a /pol/reading list attached
>>69889137
Noted, thanks. I also took note of names mentioned earlier in here.
Honestly, I hear names like Nietzsche and Kant or Orwell thrown around here a lot but never really read into them outside of basic school assignments.
I dicked around with the memes and circlejerk comments (which is fine and has its place I guess), but I want to know more and can tell I've been in the dark about some stuff.
>>69889263
Very much appreciated, thanks.
>>69884289
Moldbug loves him, but I can't stand his writing style.
>>69888382
I don't think any one person or ideology is perfect friend and I think you're an idiot if you believe otherwise.
>>69888382
Pretty sure after Catalonia, he mentions he would of rather aligned with the anarchists cause.
>>69879539
Liberalism of any sort is blue pilled
>>69889610
You better take your Ritalin so you can concentrate Bruce.
>>69882808
>Got killed for it
>Only revealed his power level when he became POTUS
>Grooming RFK to be POTUS
>Who would have groomed Ted Kennedy (who was only a liberal shit because his life depended on it) to be POTUS
>We could have had 24 years of Nationalist Kennedys
>But LBJ had to fuck it all up
>>69889509
"Thus spake Zarathustra" would be worth looking into first if your going to read Nietzsche. It encompasses most of his philosophy I believe.
>>69879539
I'm reading DiA now. A slow read but I know many cool quotes from it. That's one way to invite people to read important literature. If any of Marx's works is on the required reading list anywhere I'd gladly replace it with this.
>>69889723
>including classical liberalism btw
Look at the west compared to former communist countries. All liberalism is unnatural cuckoldry." Freedom" from tradition is cuckoldry. Democracy is a shitty forced meme.
>>69888382
>You DO realize Orwell was a socialist for his entire life, right?
He was a socialist with the balls to directly confront his comrades about their ridiculous beliefs. In the same way, Ernst Junger was a far-right militarist, but the absolute madman published a book IN FUCKING 1939 about an agrarian nation destroyed by moral decay and a charismatic rabble-rouser, then was rumoured to have participated in the plot to kill Hitler and install a leader capable of holding Germany together through its defeat.
The most interesting men in history are those who capably criticise their own side. The next Orwell will call out social justice for being ineffectual upper-middle-class moral posturing, and the next Junger will call out neoconservatism for its willingness to sacrifice all moral virtue on the altar of the ultrawealthy.
>>69889848
He writes like a man who thinks textual diarrhoea constitutes poetry, and you know it.
>>69889970
Aren't the fundamentals of modern conservatism influenced by classical liberalism? It pushed for free trade which is definitely seen as a component of conservatism now.
>>69879539
In my humble opinion both Ernst Junger and Julius Evola are truly red pilled. The ideology of conservative revolution seems profoundly appealing to me still. Also, I think that reading Ayn Rand, Schengler Solzhenitsyn, Nietzsche, Dostoevsky, Jack London and Bulgakov is a must for any educated /pol/ user, but don't agree with them on everything.
>>69883686
Then why would you say there isnt a difference?
>>69879539
I have already posted this in several threads in the past, but it's worth your time if you're interested in Tocqueville
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtiJQZTqu9M
>>69889887
>Reading Zarathustra first.
For fucks sake Australia,lay off the shitposting.
Laid the foundation for the Enlightenment
>>69890692
Modern conservatism is cancerous though.
>>69894120
The enlightenment was a mistake.
>>69890745
The conservative revolutionary movement is the closest thing to truth that has ever been a thing. "Decline of the west" is a masterpiece that doesn't get enough attention on /pol/.
>>69894347
Voltaire believed so at least, he fought radical enlighenment thinkers harder than cathocucks. The Enlightenment was a pure victory over the mindless subjugation to church and king
>>69888382
Yes, and so am I.
