Reminder that Jesus is the light.
Jesus was cool but Socrates was better. You don't have to be a cuck to get the point across.
>>73136986
Jesus is the Son of God. He's the epitome of what a human should be consciously. Plato is a good role model too tho.
>>73136844
He is the life, literally Jesus is the source of life - the Logos - the source of consciousness and all it means to exist.
He is the model for Life - especially for human life, he gave us the ultimate role model to follow in order to enter eternal life for both our souls and everlasting, perfected body at second coming.
Praise Jesus.
>>73137244
Amen my brother.
Praise Jesus.
Reminder Jesus was a lying Jew
Praise
Kek
E
K
>>73136844
Amen
>>73137675
what religion are you?
PRAAAAAAAIZEEEEEE JEEEEEZUSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Reminder Jesus isn't real and you're all patsies for a bunch of rich old pedophiles
Praise
Kek
E
K
>>73138093
are you an atheist?
>>73137156
I said Socrates, not Plato.
>>73136844
Reminder that Jesus was raised by a beta who got cucked hard
>>73138191
My bad. I'm distracted by the televised Jew.
>>73136844
Reminder that "Jesus" is as real as the easter bunny....At least there is verifiable evidence outside their holy book for the existence of Muhammed
>>73138093
lol this...Christianity is a religion of slaves.
>>73136844
reminder that the gospels are fiction and joshua wasnt a real person.
>Then you come to moral questions. There is one very serious defect to my mind in Christ's moral character, and that is that He believed in hell. I do not myself feel that any person who is really profoundly humane can believe in everlasting punishment. Christ certainly as depicted in the Gospels did believe in everlasting punishment, and one does find repeatedly a vindictive fury against those people who would not listen to His preaching -- an attitude which is not uncommon with preachers, but which does somewhat detract from superlative excellence. You do not, for instance find that attitude in Socrates. You find him quite bland and urbane toward the people who would not listen to him; and it is, to my mind, far more worthy of a sage to take that line than to take the line of indignation. You probably all remember the sorts of things that Socrates was saying when he was dying, and the sort of things that he generally did say to people who did not agree with him.
>>73138093
edgy
have a fedora
>>73138509
Are you an atheist
>>73138356
>>73138320
>>73138093
>>73137675
Found the redditors/Muslims/faggot's
Its o.k. Jesus will forgive you when you repent and accept him into your heart.
>You will find that in the Gospels Christ said, "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of Hell." That was said to people who did not like His preaching. It is not really to my mind quite the best tone, and there are a great many of these things about Hell. There is, of course, the familiar text about the sin against the Holy Ghost: "Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven him neither in this World nor in the world to come." That text has caused an unspeakable amount of misery in the world, for all sorts of people have imagined that they have committed the sin against the Holy Ghost, and thought that it would not be forgiven them either in this world or in the world to come. I really do not think that a person with a proper degree of kindliness in his nature would have put fears and terrors of that sort into the world.
>>73138635
agnostic. dont know if god is real but i know its not the god of abraham.
>Then Christ says, "The Son of Man shall send forth his His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth"; and He goes on about the wailing and gnashing of teeth. It comes in one verse after another, and it is quite manifest to the reader that there is a certain pleasure in contemplating wailing and gnashing of teeth, or else it would not occur so often. Then you all, of course, remember about the sheep and the goats; how at the second coming He is going to divide the sheep from the goats, and He is going to say to the goats, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire." He continues, "And these shall go away into everlasting fire." Then He says again, "If thy hand offend thee, cut it off; it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into Hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched; where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." He repeats that again and again also. I must say that I think all this doctrine, that hell-fire is a punishment for sin, is a doctrine of cruelty. It is a doctrine that put cruelty into the world and gave the world generations of cruel torture; and the Christ of the Gospels, if you could take Him as His chroniclers represent Him, would certainly have to be considered partly responsible for that.
>>73138647
None of those things..try again child. And you are literally asking me to believe in Santa again based on no new evidence..get bent kid.
>>73138770
Do you believe in absolute truth?
>>73138932
Idk. You seem like a faggot to me.
>>73136844
Save it for Sunday, padre. The other six days are for America.
>>73138536
>Remember kids if you don't believe in magic then you will be one of these people
>that will make the atheists shut up
>praise be to jesus.
>>73138647
they are not mudslimes op. it is a sin for mudslimes to blaspheme jesus because he is a special prophet of allah in islam.
>There are other things of less importance. There is the instance of the Gadarene swine, where it certainly was not very kind to the pigs to put the devils into them and make them rush down the hill into the sea. You must remember that He was omnipotent, and He could have made the devils simply go away; but He chose to send them into the pigs. Then there is the curious story of the fig tree, which always rather puzzled me. You remember what happened about the fig tree. "He was hungry; and seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, He came if haply He might find anything thereon; and when He came to it He found nothing but leaves, for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it: 'No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever' . . . and Peter . . . saith unto Him: 'Master, behold the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.'" This is a very curious story, because it was not the right time of year for figs, and you really could not blame the tree. I cannot myself feel that either in the matter of wisdom or in the matter of virtue Christ stands quite as high as some other people known to history. I think I should put Buddha and Socrates above Him in those respects.
http://www.users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html
>>73139049
Clearly you are projecting...Are you gay for Jesus? You want to eat his big steamy pile of shit as it comes out of his rancid pimply ass? I bet you do, I bet you do. Here is a pic of Jesus just for you too. (I know you are trolling btw, no one is ACTUALLY stupid enough to believe in myths and fairy tales anymore, I'm just having fun)
>>73139224
True. So he must be a kike then. Kikes hate Jesus more than anyone.
>>73139037
i suppose.
>>73139417
*tips fedora*
Wanna have a katana duel kid? My God vs Your lack of faith and loneliness.
>>73139593
Well how can you know absolute truth?
Amen Praise Christ
>>73139728
objective and verifiable evidence is a good start.
>>73139197
>Reminder Jesus isn't real and you're all patsies for a bunch of rich old pedophiles
>Praise
>Kek
>E
>K
expecting me to respond seriously to this, k
>>73139624
Oh..Who said anything about me not Knowing God is real...you assume too much you ignorant fool.
>>73139971
But can that evidence be false, or could the evidence be miss read? could you be wrong
>>73137244
Absolutely this
Amen
What are Catholics thoughts on the current Pope?
Also, could a Catholic properly explain their theology to me/ how they consider Mary? I always hear about how much they talk about Mary, but why though?
>>73140056
*tips menorah*
>>73140265
of course.
>>73140795
So you would admit that you are uncertain about anything?
>>73140894
i am agnostic.
>>73140722
You really enjoy making an ass out yourself don't you? Wrong again sparky.
>>73141015
so in your world view, you can not know anything for certain
>>73136844
This
>>73136844
Is Donald a Deliverer sent to the people like Moses and King David?
>>73141451
>this is what people who still don't realize that all of mankind are beings of light actually disbelieve
>>73141451
Well to be fair....It wasnt a snake, but a serpent..so that could be anything slithery
>worshipping the undead jew
>>73136844
meh
>>73136844
Amen.
>>73136844
Jesus was a faggot hippy.
Do you think I'm a faggot hippy?
>>73141451
great strawman response like any other euphoric pseudo-intellectual, have a fedora
>>73142044
Have you ever heard of the temple story?
>>73141250
you can know some things to a certain degree. like how nature works and you can study its laws objectively, i can know that the sun will probably rise tomorrow but when it comes to abstract and subjective ideas like does god exist then no you cannot be certain. you cannot objectively say that god does exist or which god he is or what he wants us to do.
>>73142181
I'm just taking the piss m8.
I believe in similar values but I'm not into organized religion, I'm a deist.
>>73142492
But you could be wrong, in your world view?
>>73142557
So God doesnt interact with the world?
>>73142492
>i can know that the sun will probably rise tomorrow
not for certain though. Science relies on inductive reasoning, which gives you no reason to believe that whatever happens in the past experiment will occur again, although for practical purposes, we generally accept scientific theories to be infallible, until some anomaly pops up.
>>73142834
I'm not saying that God, or whatever is above doesn't, I'm just saying that we wouldn't be able to notice it.
>>73143094
Because if you do it right, they won't be sure you have done anything at all......
>>73143184
Yes, just like the episode of Futurama.
>>73136844
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TrovtcNhpQ
>>73142683
yes and so could you.
>>73143355
No I can't
>>73143235
My favorite episode hands down.
>>73143504
interesting proposition. do explain.
>>73142044
>Do you think I'm a faggot hippy?
Well you're a canadian
>>73143094
So you dont know for a fact, in your world view, how do you know anything to be true?
>>73138093
>implying we don't have the census by Rome with Jesus in it.
It isn't whether he is real or not, its whether he was God or not.
>>73143594
Revelation from God,
>>73143709
I've had certain experiences that I would call paranormal, or not of this earth.
>>73143808
Details?
Jesus is currently awakening minds one by one to the matrix of lies known as the synagogue of satan which we are currently trapped in.
Once you've witnessed the truth you are convicted and there is no going back.
It's time to wake up and then wake others up to the real truth. Christ.
>>73136844
>>73136844
Forgive father for i have sinned.
Give me the strength to love my enemies like i love fries.
I really love fries.
Amen.
>>73143989
Atheist here, Christians are fucking retarded lol.
>>73144160
So if you are an Atheist, than you must know what truth is?
>>73143787
which revelation? From which God? how do you know your worshiping the correct god or that your following the correct revelation? can you objectively say that you know your are right like i can objectively say you know the right god like i can objectively say the sun will rise tomorrow?
>>73144111
>>73144160
Live for something or die for nothing.
>>73144323
Yes, I do know what truth is.
>>73144444
Quints wills it
>>73144374
Here is some more ammo my critically thinking friend. There are 4000 Active religions today. Of Christianity alone there are over 40,000 sects. Add that to the tens of thousands of DEAD religions, and then realize that every last one of them ALL claimed that their religion was the light the truth and the way.....
>>73144444
sheeeet
>>73144444
>Live for something or die for nothing.
Atheists can easily live for something. I still have morals without believing in a god. Nice quints by the way.
>>73144444
>>73144374
The Revelation of the one true God, that has revealed himself to everyone, but many has suppressed in their unrighteousness, but they are still left with out excuse
Romans 1.
Those who profess not knowing God leads them to a world view of absurdity, were they cannot be certain of anything.
>>73144655
Read Romans 1
>>73144655
For the most part, it doesn't start from religion. The first question is: does God (not necessarily the Christian one) exist?
>>73144447
Define it pls?
>>73138093
reminder that any of these are less real then jesus
>>73144890
falling back to the bible i see... my last post was to try and get you to realize that this argument also applies to you and your beliefs, also i'm not a fan of taking advice from a book that is objectively wrong about some of its content and also doesnt really agree with my sense of morality.
>>73145060
Really? You want me to define it? A google search would be better than asking a random anon. Truth is a fact, it is the reality of something.
>>73144724
>I still have morals without believing in a god
Morals based off of generations of Christianity.
Just accept the fact that Jesus died for our sins bro
>>73145219
But you have admitted that in your world view, you cant be certain of anything, so how can you be certain of what you just said?
>>73145267
Will you accept the definition i give you?
>>73144981
Ive read the entire bible front to back twice, Its why I am no longer a Christian..Nice try tho.
>>73145410
>Morals based off of generations of Christianity
Yeah and Christianity is no longer necessary and believing in it is retarded. I learned more valuable moral lessons from media than I did from my church. Not that the church didn't teach me anything but most of what it taught me I was already taught elsewhere.
>>73145219
Hey, I read some of you previous posts and it seems that you think empiricism is the only way to knowledge. How can you believe that nature, like the sun setting, has some order that we can draw a pattern from, and thus, some knowledge?
>>73145575
Depends what it is.
>>73144987
I'll agree, thankfully I no longer have to worry about that aspect of the divine.
>>73136844
http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/borderlands/images/e/e8/LF_SW_I_SAW_THE_LIGHT.ogg/revision/latest?cb=20140402111204
>>73145410
an atheist can be moral, but he must borrow from a christian world view in order to justify their morality.
>>73145476
well i can know myself and i know that some of the bible doesnt agree with my sense of morality. thats enough for me to reject it. besides like i stated earlier you can know some things objectively i know the sun will probably rise tomorrow. trying to get me going in a circular argument isnt going to work im not a robot.
>>73145665
I'm not really clear about your stance on religion, but once one believes that God's existence is possible, then the religion is picked based on if their religious text contradicts with modern science or not and the historicity of the text. Also, I believe most Christians believe that Jesus is the Lord because he resurrected.
>>73145608
But again you have admitted you cant be certain of anything, you cant judge the bible if you cant even be certain of your own senses. You need to admit that your world view is an irational one.
>>73136844
Reminder that this is the second coming
>>73144724
Define a sound moral compass that wasn't already based on a religious text. When you remove the fear of God, morals become subjective.
I got trips too. God wills it.
>>73144111
>>73145648
Truth is that which conforms to reality
>>73145953
Religion is a tool made up by man to control other men..religion is evil, and unfortunately we need it. I just hope and work for the day when religion is finally irrelevant.
>>73145990
I never admitted that...You need to check your flow joe. I actually can be certain of a few things. But in the spirit of the thread, I will tell you that without any doubt whatsoever I absolutely KNOW that God is real.
>>73144655
>Here is some more ammo my critically thinking friend
Would a powerfull god have a lot of followers or just a little, lets go with a lot, since he is all powerfull and shit, now what are the major religions who have survived all other religions and grew, you are left with 4000?
>>73145830
You cant know yourself in your world view, you admitted you cant be certain of anything, that includes yourself.
>>73146107
do you have any evidence that religion is made by men?
It's also rather interesting you mention control of people. Isn't materialism, sexual degeneracy, and other forms of degeneracy promoted by the media also other forms of mind control?
>>73143861
When I lived in my old house in Niagara Falls, it was haunted. Usually you'd see this specter of some guy laying on the couch in the living room.
I remember when I went through a stealing phase when I was 8 years old, I hid some books I had bought with stolen money in one of the cushions of the couch the ghost usually slept on.
Next morning, there were the books, laying neatly on the cushions. I promptly threw them out in the garbage before my parents found them. They never brought it up once, and hadn't found out that I was stealing money from them until a few months later.
Other than that I was generally scared to go into the living room, basement, and the upstairs hallway. It always felt like someone was there, watching.
>>73146068
>When you remove the fear of God, morals become subjective
Debatable. Any evidence to support this? Many atheists are genuinely good people, even kinder than some Christians I know. It's silly to imply that simply because Religion worked in the past that it means secularism won't work. Also I am perfectly fine with atheists reading the bible, just read it as it is, a work of fiction.
>>73136844
Agreed brother. Your dubs are from Christ
>>73146070
More or less the same meaning except you used a more ambiguous word.
>>73145629
its how newton defined the laws of gravity which in turn we used to put satellites in orbit around the earth id say that qualifies as an answer. i believe that empirical evidence is the best way to gain knowledge that has any significant value. its whats responsible for modernity, its how i can talk to you from wherever in america you are at.
>>73146371
Yes in fact I do, every holy book tablet scroll etc were all written chiseled and sculpted by Human beings. God only gave us one rule, and you know which one that is, the only rule that permeates ALL those "religions"
>>73146107
You admitted you cant be certain of anything, how can you trust your reasoning here?
>>73146240
What can you be certain of?
>>73146677
no...I did not. You need to stop making a fool of yourself and check the thread. I have already told you this.
>>73146736
That you have a REALLY hard time with reading comprehension. You like it better when other people tell you what to believe don't you?
>>73146522
Okay so can you absolutely know what is true, based on our current definition?
>>73146311
you clearly didnt read my post like i said try something else would you this argument also applies to you you cannot be certain that you are correct. if you keep this up then well just have to agree to disagree.
Reminder that light is jesus
>>73146842
But can you really be certain of that?
>>73146862
There are a few things you can but this is completely irrelevant to being an atheist. I am not atheist because I KNOW there is no god. I just BELIEVE there is no god.
>>73146419
>Many atheists are genuinely good people, even kinder than some Christians I know
that was not his point. Anyone can be moral. But without some sort of absolute reference point (God), morals are basically preference, hence its subjectivity.
>>73146605
> i believe that empirical evidence is the best way to gain knowledge that has any significant value.
I very much agree with you here, but the Newton example kind of goes against your point. The very laws of physics show that the universe has order and some sort of rational intelligibility, otherwise why study and look for patterns in biology or laws of physics? So, why is the universe orderly and rationally intelligible? Personally, I believe that it is because there is a designer. There's no reason to believe why the universe would be orderly from the big bang.
>>73146107
Without religion only the unintelligent breed.
>>73146969
Yes, because there is evidence in this thread...Now quit taking a piss and accept you have made yourself a fool by being so assumptive.
>>73146549
>its how i can talk to you from wherever in america you are at.
wrong it is because god allows us too, here you have this universe with chaos and no order but yet a computer computes, god is truely amazing for giving this technology people from ages ago might even call it magic
>>73146925
I have Revelation from God, in your world view you cannot be certain of anything
>>73146419
Without God and the threat of divine punishment, of what consequence is there to breaking your morals? Why is what Hitler did wrong? What's wrong with Isis cutting rows of people's heads off with detcord? Who is any one person to say that another person is immoral but God?
>>73147047
Yeah, no. thats not the issue.
>>73147098
But can you be certain 100% of your ability to examine the evidence?
>>73140559
God chose her to be Jesus mother because she was also Holy, she was pure of flesh and pure of heart.
>>73147187
Hitler did nothing wrong...he says very unironically.
Ok well maybe dunkirk and pushing a little to far east, but other than that..He literally did nothing wrong.
>>73146980
But can you be certain of your beliefs?
>>73147044
>But without some sort of absolute reference point (God), morals are basically preference, hence its subjectivity.
They are subjective but there are some things that many will follow because it makes sense for them to follow it. The golden rule is a good example, an atheist can follow this rule and does not need a god to make them follow it.
>>73147297
Your vapid attempt at trolling is tiresome.
>>73147448
Your the one who cant be certain of anything.
>>73147418
I'm not certain, that is inherent in it being a belief. If proof of god ever turned up I promise you I would believe in god. There is no proof that I have ever seen, however.
>>73147591
So you admit you cant be certain of anything then?
>>73147591
>If proof of god ever turned up I promise you I would believe in god
this is atheism people ,thinking god would show him self to them
>>73136986
Socrates never understood that bad guys will exist and infinite loops of utopia are impossible
>>73147433
>They are subjective but there are some things that many will follow because it makes sense for them to follow it
Right, but that doesn't mean that it's right. A few decades ago, most people believe slavery is morally permissible, now it isn't. The same goes for the golden rule. In your world view, if I don't subscribe to the golden rule and I find murder and rape as morally good, then you have no say that my moral laws are any worse then yours. Also, when people make moral judgements, they do so as if it is universal. Nobody would say, rape is bad for me. Instead that say, rape is bad.
>>73147581
Im certain that you are pretty lousy Troll now, so I will give 4/10, even tho you actually didn't start out a troll, and just devolved into that once you realized you had no viable arguments and desperately wanted to seem relevant...you should be proud to be honest, that is a VERY high score.
>>73147044
this doesnt really apply. what if the laws are selected randomly. what if after the big bang the laws were different and in this scenario life could still exist but in a different form than it is now for instance what if in that scenario life was silicone based instead of carbon based? why do these patterns have to indicate that their is a designer?
A-men, praise to our lord; may we all find light, mercy, and love in these dieing times.
>>73147187
A good way of considering if something is ethical is to consider if everyone were to do that act would things still function? If everyone were to cut off peoples heads then everyone would wind up dead and humanity would collapse. Therefore it is illogical to go around cutting heads off and you should not do it. This is very basic reasoning but it is an example of how you can have sound morals without fear of god.
>>73148041
So you can be certain of something?
>>73136844
Reminder that Jesus was a Jew who is the face of an ideology that was designed to destroy the Roman Empire and keep the white race divided. It's such a weak cuck "love your neighbor" "turn the other cheek" globalist pile of bullshit
The white race must become nonreligious and destroy its enemies without mercy morals or remorse or it will die.
If anything Jesus is the darkness. A reminder of when the Jews caused the dissolution of Rome and plunged Europe and the white race into darkness
>>73147162
why has god chosen to reveal himself to you and not to me? why should i take your word? what if what you think is god is actually a demon of some kind?
>>73148018
The same can be said about religion. Rapists still exist in Religious societies. Also see
>>73148108
>>73148075
>what if the laws are selected randomly.
it doesn't matter. The fact that there are laws and an orderly universe already imply some sort of designer
>what if in that scenario life was silicone based instead of carbon based
still there would be some order and laws involved
>why do these patterns have to indicate that their is a designer?
Exactly my point. Why is the universe rationally intelligble? Why are there patterns in a universe that was not designed?
>>73142044
Matthew 10:34,35
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
For I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--"
Just tell me what kind of faglord pacifist hippie would have balls to say such thing
>>73148182
A religion of slaves. The jews promoted Christianity to help make it easier to control the goy, that's why Jews and Islam clash so much because Islam was just another version Of Judaism and not created or controlled by the jews. The bible does teach nonviolence in all things and that to suffer is divine and even promotes slavery and the teachings of slaves being the best slaves possible.The fact that people cant see this is astounding..especially black people I mean seriously that is mind boggling.
>>73147718
Irrelevant. I am not certain that there is no god I just don't believe it unless I have proof. Maybe it is impossible to have proof, then I will never believe in god.
>>73148282
Romans 1:18-20
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
God Has revealed himself to all men, but we have supressed this knowledge.
We can discuss my revelation once you tell me how you can be 100% certain of anything.
>>73148344
> Rapists still exist in Religious societies
yea, but i'm not talking about people's ability to follow moral laws. I'm talking about why a God must be necessary for absolute moral laws.
In your other post, you already posit a bunch of values that human lives and society are good or necessary. In a naturalistic world view, there is no reason to believe that there is such a thing from right from wrong.
>>73147187
But hitler didn't do nothing wrong though A Christian would think otherwise.
Not surprising as Christianity is a Jewish invention designed to keep the white race from reaching their true potential.
But whatever. Keep being a good goy and praying to a man in the sky every night.
White Christians are borderline traitors to the white race
>>73148514
thats like asserting when you see a face in a tree out in the wild and you assert that someone had something to do with it when it could have just randomly grown that way. a pattern does not inherently imply there was a designer.
>>73148835
can you be certain in your world view, that anything is absolutely correct.
>>73148961
>you already posit a bunch of values that human lives and society are good or necessary.
And you can easily argue that they are good. Societies make your life easier so therefore it is beneficial for you if society keeps existing. These are just examples. You are the one who is claiming that god is necessary for sound morals but you never prove it. I've shown some examples of sound morals where god is unnecessary.
>>73148835
If god exist what makes you diffrent then the other cunts who drowned in the times with boat guy. I am sure god showed them proof
>>73138327
>I'm distracted by the televised Jew.
Which is likely why you worship a dead Jew.
Dear /pol/,
I think I've just stumbled upon the least degenerate form of music. Umbasa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xPh-fXYAc4
Yours,
Anon
>>73148628
This exactly
Funny how many Christians say they are anti Jew while following an ideology created by the Jew to keep them enslaved
Also I think they had somewhat of a hand in Islam too in order to create conflict and thus loyalty to Christianity over Islam though islams main purpose is to turn the Arabs into a force to take over the world by whatever means necessary and to destroy the whites in the process
>>73149245
ok, I guess this kind of devolved into the watchmaker argument. How would you explain the orderliness of the universe?
>>73149379
> Societies make your life easier so therefore it is beneficial for you if society keeps existing
Why are living and existing things that are good?
> You are the one who is claiming that god is necessary for sound morals
I never said that. Anyone can come up with sound morals. There are a ton of philosophies like utilitarianism and so on that give their reasoning for their respective ideas. I said that God is necessary for their to be OBJECTIVE morals.
>>73148108
But I want to make a hard line evolutionary atheist perspective on it. I'm going to smash Ooga's head in with a rock so I don't have to compete with him for scarce resources. Sure, we could try to work together, but I'd rather not deal that hassle and he's at least ~100lbs of meat. It's cold out and I can store that meat in the snow for a while. Let's jump to 2016. I want to glass the entirety of the Middle East so I don't have to hear about it on the news anymore and I want cheaper oil. Why would this be unethical? Ooga was a weak bitch and Middle Easterners are savage animals.
>>73148553
The "sword" is his words
As for turning father against son and stuff-
Donald trump is jesus
People are turning on eachother over him
The Nazi's only lost become the balance of good and evil was about to be tipped in the favor of good perhaps permanently.
There can be no good without evil.
Holy Music thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OIxpMyJ9QI
>>73149697
>How would you explain the orderliness of the universe?
There is something called the anthropic principle which assumes an infinite number of possible realities. The fact that we find ourselves in this one is a simple fact that is the only possible universe we could exist in. Therefore this is the one we exist in.
>>73148835
The proof is all around you, famalama
>>73149950
how is the anthropic principle any more ad hoc than assuming there's a God?
>>73149697
There can be a basis for morals without God even in ancient savage societies. It's called if you don't follow the rules we beat jail and or kill you. Why do you think humans have police punishment systems jails execution etc it's because "fear of God" doesn't do shit for people who are truly fucked up immoral people. The only reason there is a God element is the Jews needed to keep the white goys scared and superstitious
>>73149551
>Trump is a related video off that.
It's confirmed. Trump is the agnus dei candidate.
>>73149863
Luke 22:36
"He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.""
Jesus was literally pro gun ownership
>>73150059
It isn't.
>>73150080
that's not morals anon, that called laws. I'm talking about morals here.
>>73150156
you assumed that there are infinite realities to describe the orderliness of the univesrse? not ad hoc?
>>73149975
You cannot prove a negative...Prove there is not a little green man on my shoulder that is calling you an idiot..Go on...Prove it faggot...Protip, you can't. So you are just going to have deal with that little green man on my shoulder calling you an idiot forever.
>>73149379
>Societies make your life easier
Define easier. I could spend my time chilling with my woman innawoods managing a small farm and hunting/fishing and not be bothered with commercial goods and taxes. Oooorrrr, I could work a ~50 hour work week for slave wages to barely afford rent and fast food. Then spend my entire tax refund catching up on bills. Fuck your society.
>>73150250
I didn't assume anything, anon. I said
>there is a theory
>>73149367
I suppose not, but I choose to trust my senses for the most part because it is pragmatically useful for me to. Can I be certain they aren't lying to me? No.
>>73149697
It's more valuable for a moral to be something that is followed by most of society than it is to be objective. So long as most people follow a moral then it is functioning and therefore society will function.
>>73149754
One dumbass who doesn't use his brain thinks killing people is better than helping them doesn't prove that people with brains can't realize the benefits of working together.
>>73149754
There is literally nothing wrong with what you said. Survival of the fittest. By this though if ooga fights back and kills you too bad if you starve and realize you should have worked together it was your stupidity if the mudshits in the Middle East nuke us first it was us being too cucked to push the button on them
Natures way is literally survival of the fittest and smartest. Look at every non human animal. The biggest proof against religion is the fact that it literally goes against nature
>>73150466
Okay, so since you cannot be absolutely certain of anything, in your world view, it is then acceptable to say that your belief system is irrational?
>>73150411
not a theory because it's never proven. A conjecture at best. I can also assume there is a God, and arrive at the same conclusion of the orderliness of the universe.
>>73150466
again, you are placing value towards a functional society without justifiying why. If morality is objective, than there are grounds to condoning why certain things are wrong and right. Otherwise, in subjectivity, it comes down to the strongest one decides what's right or wrong.
Morals are what you feel bad for going against because your small community said so. Laws are morals that are enforced by a much larger community that we call the country. That may or may not align with what you were taught growing up.
Countries are just ways for human beings to organize over extremely large areas. What we do naturally is just extended and written down. Key word: written down.
Morals exists because if you go against it, your friends and parents and neighbors might not like you or even hate you. Since we humans have figured out how to organize above and beyond small groups, laws were created.
This is elementary stuff anons.
>>73150466
>One dumbass who doesn't use his brain thinks killing people is better than helping them doesn't prove that people with brains can't realize the benefits of working together.
But this is exactly how human life has gone for the past ~150,000 years(according to wikipedia).
>>73150739
Not at all that is not the definition of irrational. Also I CAN be certain of some things. Such as my own existence.
>>73150925
>you are placing value towards a functional society without justifiying why
Can you explain what is the point of objective morality then? If society is not valuable then why even care about objective morality?
>>73150509
>The biggest proof against religion is the fact that it literally goes against nature
We receive the Holy Spirit to combat our sinful human nature.
>>73151138
>Also I CAN be certain of some things. Such as my own existence.
What can you be certain of, aside from that?
>>73150169
Morals as you define them are unnecessary and a lie. Look at nature and all other non human animals. Nature does not have morals it has survival and survival of the fittest. If a society wants to survive and be strong it imposes a set of laws over its people to ensure they can live together for the good and survival of the society. Social and pack animals will do this. For example If a wolf kills another in the pack it is exiled or killed
Morals by superstition are the biggest Jew lie ever created. They are simply a tool to keep the goyim passive and slaveish
>>73151138
Can you be 100% certain of your own existence?
>>73151224
Certain aspects of Math. Sure you can argue the symbols are subjective but that is just being pedantic. They represent real objective things.
>>73151138
The point of objective morality is so that you are actually justified in punishing others. Values of goodness and evil actually exist in a framework where objective morality exists. So I can say that rape (or any other evil deed) is always, absolutely wrong, no matter what culture you are from. In the case of subjective morality, anyone can rationalize their own morals, so nobody is more right or wrong from another.
Atheists are mouth-breathers. Of course there's a God, the universe didn't create itself.
The Bible's got some problems but so what? Who told you the Bible had to be 100% true or 100% false, your grandmother? Taken at face value, the Bible is just what one would expect from a book drawn partially from myth, partially from verbal legend, written by dozens of different authors over thousands of years, and thrown together rather haphazardly by a group of people intent on ruling the world - some truth, and some bullshit.
That doesn't change in the slightest the argument over whether or not there's a God, which always comes back to First Cause, and stops there. There's no valid argument beyond that point, because no one knows what happened 13.8 billion years ago that brought our universe into being.
I'll tell you one thing though - it wasn't nothing creating a universe out of itself.
For myself, I find Biblical prophecy pretty convincing - the world's superpowers are aligned perfectly for the Biblical Battle of Har'Megiddo, aka Armageddon.
And life, that magical, undefinable state of being that lies somewhere on the other side of...un-life, only came into existence one time. Just once did what we now call "genesis" occur in the known universe. Even on this planet, where conditions for genesis are apparently perfect, it still only happened one time - there is only one chain of DNA in existence, and only one self-aware species who is aware of it..
So atheists may feel free to rule out the involvement of a higher power and believe they are here via a series of incredible natural coincidences that just...happened. It's an easy way out - I don't know the answer, so why even worry about it.
But I think I'll stick with the story that makes sense, both intellectually and spiritually. We are the only intelligent life in the universe, there is a God, and he expects something from us.
It's not particularly complicated, and he gave us all the information we need.
>>73151447
Why would you punish others if there is no society?
>>73151297
If you subscribe to a naturalistic worldview, then live it out. Create whatever laws you want and beat those who don't agree with you into submission. When you meet someone stronger than you, he will impose his laws on you unjustifiably, and make you his good goy.
>>73151695
>no society
Why wouldn't there be?
But why do you believe in jesus? Do you believe in jesus becaue your parents or pastors told you do? Or have you had personal experiences with the entity?
Im super curious about this.
>>73151219
As if our human nature is a bad thing
Violence is a part of natural life. There a not enough resources available for every group and species and some species serve as food to others. Competition is the result and of the violence the competition is evolution. The smartest and strongest survive the rest are killed off to make room for the strong.
What if nothing died off? The world would be swamped used up and nothing would be able to survive
>>73151858
Well, why do you believe Caesar crossed the Rubicon? Why do believe that Christopher Columbus sailed across the Atlantic?
>>73151420
>>73151420
I would disagree. What you are arguing for in that case is that your mind works in a certain way. Just because you think logic works as a way to explain the world (your experience) doesn't mean that logic is real or has any meaning, just the same that you can't prove your experiences are real or have meaning. This is commonly known as a priori knowledge.
>>73151838
You said I was placing value in society without justifying it but then you mentioned something that is only relevant if there is a society and you are attempting to justify it's practices (punishing others). So which is it? Society is not valuable (in which case my morals are not valuable) or society is valuable (in which case my morals are valuable because they keep society functioning and most people follow them).
>>73151958
none of those acts are things that I can't do myself. None of them claimed to have super human abilities.
>>73152005
Truth deals purely in the realm of logic. If you reject logic as having any meaning then you reject truth as having any meaning in which case this argument is pointless.
>>73151958
There is hard physical empirical verifiable evidence that these occurred, not the least of which is eyewitness first-hand accounts of people that were actually there at the time, plus TONS of commemorative artifacts made DURING that time.
>>73152129
But are you a hundred percent certain of your ability to use Logic
>>73152129
Well they are tied together I guess. If you take your existence to be the one thing you can know for certain, then you also have to take logic because the concepts of knowing, and for certain, wouldn't exist without logic. So I guess I'll give you that. But then you build from there.
>>73151746
but is he just stronger or smarter as well if both he deserves to be the one in charge anyways and I would submit to his rule for the good of my group
if he is not smarter i would attempt to use my intelligence to defeat him.
FYI this is basically the principle behind elections (at least non rigged ones on paper)
One of our biggest problems is that we allow the stupid and the useless to exist and reproduce. Because of this we have overpopulation and many useless people on welfare that the useful must pay for
>>73152037
Society is valuable, because life is valuable because we are made in the image of God. I never said your morals weren't valuable, just that your morals were subjective, which implies that good and evil are arbitrary.
>>73152045
So the issue you have with Jesus is that he performed miracles? The chances of the universe to be this finely tuned is in itself a miracle. Altering the nuclear strong force just by a little would make this universe unlivable.
>>73152419
the universe is hardly finely tuned. Its extremely chaotic. Things have adapted and patterns have formed by chance over a very very very very inconcievably long time.
>>73152156
If its historicity you are worried about, the bible's historical accuracy is pretty good and better than ancient texts we have today. see >>73145186
>>73152372
>super alpha reptilian obama demands you to offer you his anus, accept or deny
>>73137244
God bless you, Amen.
>>73152419
My whole argument is that whether my morals are objective doesn't matter, rather whether they allow society to keep functioning matters and whether most people follow them. So you value society because you believe in god and you believe in god because he creates objective morals which you value because you value society. This is circular reasoning, where does it begin? Where is the foundation of your beliefs? They are not in god.
>>73151858
I was an atheist until i realized that this man was able to civilize the whole west by himself. By looking up further on how it was done i found out that his miracles, death and resurrection were literally true stories. All his influence could've never happened if he hadn't done all the weird shit that's described on the new testament.
>>73152419
>The chances of the universe to be this finely tuned is in itself a miracle
From our perspective, it would have no choice but to seem that way. In the same fashion that a self-aware puddle of water would think that the hole it is in MUST have been made for it as it fits so perfectly.
>>73152667
The laws of gravity as we know it has not changed since the dawn of time.
The laws of magnetism and electric has not changed no adapted.
>>73151596
Nah it wasn't nothing creating the universe out of itself, it was nothing creating God out of itself then God creating everything, right?
A single all powerful being is a limited Human understanding. There is not single god, but all beings are god.
The energies of first creator coalescing into infinite concious beings who find themselves unlimited in an unlimited place with all number of other unlimited beings. The only problem is their omnipotence cancels out. Two Gods using their powers to affect eachother won't work. More won't work. What do any of us do to pass what we inherently realize is an infinite expanse of time as unlimited as us? What is there to do when you know all and can do all? Create a new place where you DON'T know all. Where you CAN'T do anything. What a wondrous idea for prefer, eternal entities. Handicap and limit themselves for a new experience. Live a life without knowing anything. See how far you can get.
This is the only reconciliation for the truths we inherently know about our lives. A single God creating everything for his own purpose is selfish and ultimately pointless. There's no point, no reason for it. Not even one we can understand because we are not capable.
But when you realize it makes sense for many beings to come together in agreement of a creation, coupled with the mistranslated texts in the Bible referencing GodS and "us".
What a sad, sickening, totalitarian, authoritarian, dictatorship it is to believe in a single creator.
No. Balder was the light. And he was shot by the blind Hoder betrayed by Loke
>>73152856
good point.
>>73152296
I guess what I was getting at was the idea of "I exist" already has a bunch of presuppositions built in. Most of them are based in the reality that you experience and take for granted. I hold this glass in my hand and say, "it exists." But I could be dreaming. None of this could be real. In which case, would I still "exist"? My point is that even your main axiom is suspect because you could be a fart in the polar storm of a black hole that thinks it's conscious.
see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
>>73152257
this argument is pointless since i make no claim to know if god exists. the burden of proof lies with you. until you can give me reason to believe you are right within reasonable doubt your argument is just circular nonsense.
>>73152958
Its still irrational because, inthat world view, you still cant be certain of anything.
>>73152693
No, I'm afraid not, AT Best we have Thrid hand accounts via word of mouth. and ZERO pieces of physical evidence. Think about this for a second, please. Jesus did amazing things, right? Healed the sick, fed many with little, walked on water. RAISED A GUY FROM THE DEAD, rose from the dead himself. Yet not ONE person out of the tens of thousands of people thought to commemorate it, not one scroll, not one tablet, not one statue, not one bust, not one painting...Not even pieces.NOTHING, until almost 100 years later.....And even then many contradicting stories. No, Jesus as in the bible was never real I'm afraid.
>>73152733
> you believe in god because he creates objective morals
no I do not use the moral argument as my justification for a god, only for objective morals to exist there must be a god
>whether my morals are objective doesn't matter
I already agreed with you that subjective morals can be useful to a society, just that there is little justification as to why yours is better than anyone else's because there are no objective values such as society=good, life=good, in a subjective framework
>>73153087
That's the point. There is no such thing as certainty.
Even at the most basic physical level described by science.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncertainty_principle
>>73152958
I think, therefore I am only works when you actually are thinking that you exist. It's true that if I am not presently thinking about existing then I can't be certain I am existing but if I am not thinking about it then who cares? You really cannot argue against I think, therefore I am. It is too perfect of an argument.
>>73136844
Thanks for the OP. I read a verse just now.
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
James 5:16 NIV
In traffic I cursed quite a lot this week. I wish I didn't have such strong emotions about it, but 4 years ago the traffic wasn't anywhere near as bad. I hope I can get strength to stay calm and not lash out in anger at the traffic. It'll be less stress in my life if I don't.
I pray that /pol/ has a blessed day/night and can lead those lost back onto a clear path.
>>73151858
Both, I grew up in a Baptist/Catholic family and I went into a coma when I was a toddler and when I was in my coma I remember Jesus hugging me and telling me it wasn't my time yet and that I had to wake up when I was ready.
Also another experience I had when I was 15, I was suicidal because I was a hormonal mess after a break up and I had a dream of Jesus walking up to me and telling me he was sending me a guardian angel to me to protect me, and a week later (my now fiancé) best friend from 3 years prior stopped me from ending my life.
I also know plenty of people from the hospital I work in that have seen visions of God and Jesus comforting them.
>>73153087
Damnit man....if you just want a friend just ask, it's really making me sad seeing you poke into other people's conversation because you are so desperate for attention...well here is a pity (you) Now, seriously would you actually like to talk?
>>73153108
Many things were passed down though oratory means. Being able to re-tell stories accurately was a skill held by most back then. It wasn't till later did they start realizing "Hey, his teachings and story were really amazing, this oratory thing may not last, it should be written down." And so it was.
>>73149443
Strawest of men
>>73153063
But God has revealed himself to you, so as long as you reject that point, you will still be uncertan of anything and me giving you evidence wont prove anything, becuase i cant prove anything to you in your world view. realize your revelation, Repent, and put your trust in Jesus is all I can say. Good night
>>73153153
You have been arguing against my original claim that "being Christian is retarded" using this argument so why use it if it is not the foundation of your beliefs?
> life=good
Life is good because existence quite literally makes you feel good. From there you can build up to my arguments about society.
>>73153108
there are quotes from John found in letters by one of the bishops (can't remember his name) in the 100s AD, and I believe that there are mentions of Jesus in the books of Josephus a jewish historian who also lived around that era.Tomb of lazarus was also discovered, that showed his resurrection and described him as a friend of jesus
>>73153159
So if you cant be certain of anything, in your world view, it is literally defined as Irrational.
>>73136844
Kek disagrees
>>73153202
I think, therefore I am
Presupposes that there is such a thing as "am"
Never gives the definition of what that really means. If it has no definition, it is meaningless. qed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonsense#Wittgenstein
>>73153363
Bullshit, many older way less spectacular events have artifacts from the actual time frame of the event to help commemorate it, you can dance around it all you like but the bible is a lie and Jesus was never real.
>>73153413
I'm sorry. you were talking with some other anon on the subject of morality, so I used the objective morality argument to show that without god, morals are subjective.
>Life is good because existence quite literally makes you feel good
Isn't that claim just as arbitrary as saying life is bad because I feel pain?
>>73153504
You can have rationality without certainty.
>>73153434
>NOTHING, until almost 100 years later..
Stopped reading didnt ya?
