>Libertarians believe that consumers can dictate quality and regulate companies in every aspect just by their demand
>35.7% of America's population is obese because they can't read nutrition labels
>Fad diets are STILL a thing despite it being PROVEN calories in vs calories out is all you need to know
>People regularly consume high fructose corn syrup
>It's a well known fact that Apple manufactures their products in inhumane Chinese factories but people still buy them anyway and don't care
>People know cigarettes kill them and give them cancer but still buy them anyway and don't care
Man, consumers really do dictate quality! They always know what's best for them!
Face it, lolbertarians. If the premise of your ideology worked, pure democracies would yield utopias because everyone would be so educated as to never vote a corrupt politician into office.
>>69609872
It's like they think Humans are completely rational animals, but time and time again it's proven that they are not.
>>69609995
Yes, they fatal flaw is they expect consumers to really care about things that don't immediately affect them.
Is Joe Shmoe is at the grocery store and buys items spanning 12 brands. Do you think he looked into every single item's background history?
>humane treatment of animals
>how ethical the suppliers are with their employees
>how ethical the company is with its business practices
>etc. etc. etc.
He just wants what he's buying. He doesn't care.
>>69609872
Anglo cultures are the most libertarian and most successful, sorry pagan.
>>69609872
That does not justify theft at gunpoint. Libertarianism is at its core a moral system.
>>69610529
No, it's not a moral system.
It's just a system where you have to rely on the intelligence of others to ensure you get a good product.
People don't care about what goes into making something as long as they get it with good quality and fair price.
I'd rather have educated people whose job it is checking over large chemical companies making sure they don't dump XYZ into the water because their studies show it can damage wildlife in 12 years.
Do you think the average consumer does that? Does the average consumer have high degrees in chemistry?
>>69609995
Thanks for your original idea, nobody has had this thought before and you bringing it to our attention will truly revolutionize educated discussion on this board
>>69609872
>Libertarians assume a basic level of intelligence in economic decision making
I don't care if stupid people get fucked over by the system. It's not the markets responsibility to protect people from making poor choices. The market always comes good in the end
>>69610780
Then why is Apple still a thing when any tech savvy person knows they sell outdated technology at incredibly high prices?
Why are they one of the biggest players in the tech industry when they fill shiny cases with garbage?
You just need a little razzle dazzle and you can sell a bag of poop to someone.
>>69609872
>People hurt themselves because they didn't stop to read for a few seconds.
Not my problem.
>People willingly eat junk food or do drugs.
Not my problem, nor do I presume to know what they "really" want.
>It's a well known fact that Apple manufactures their products in inhumane Chinese factories but people still buy them anyway and don't care
That's the Chinese worker's problem -- but I bet he would flip you off if you told him to quit his inhumane job and go back to starving / slaving in the rice fields.
>>69611096
>Not my problem, nor do I presume to know what they "really" want.
Yes, it is your problem, because the stupid outnumber the smart and will funnel their money into making shitty quality companies the most powerful companies while quality companies are more sparse and funded only by small groups of consumers.
>>69610911
Because buying Apple products buys you prestige (or at least hipster cred). They are simple to operate and they come in a single variety unlike the dozens of possible prebuilt PCs (let alone custom built) that all have their own bugs or problems. Some people will pay more for that.
It's like asking why people buy luxury cars even if they run just as well as a car half their price.
>>69609872
>PROVEN calories in vs calories out is all you need to know
Actually it's been proven time and again that this isn't even remotely how it works. Protip: if you stop eating, you won't lose a single pound for months.
>>69609872
so the solution to fixing stupid people is to remove their agency? you sure are fuckin stupid
Value is subjective.
>>69611421
luxury cars run better and are objectively of higher quality
In your Libertarian fantasy land, where everyone is educated in every single product they use, no one would buy apple products.
In your Libertarian fantasy land, people would have fought tooth and nail to end the NSA and stop using products that worth with them to track people.
They simply don't care.
>>69611184
I have no right to force someone, at gunpoint, to provide me a product -- especially when the product I want is at odds with what the public wants. If there are not enough people like me to entice a company to sell said product or if I'm incapable of producing it myself, that's the sacrifice we have to make in a world of limited resources.
>>69609872
Libertarians BTFO.
Koch brother's on suicide watch
It's being reported supporters (tea party) are all having midlife cryis simultaneously
>>69609872
I am not a Libertarian but to play devils advocate: this is why we need to rid the system of supports for lesser people. So if you're stupid and eat yourself into obesity? That's fine. The state won't fucking help you though enjoy your heart attack.
Only when we bring self responsibility back will a free market work.
>>69611677
>especially when the product I want is at odds with what the public wants
the public doesn't care as long as they get their product
my shirt could be made by crying orphans in Pajeet Land who earn only a penny a day and people would still buy it.
>>69610742
Not a bad shitpost yourself, faggot
>>69611645
>luxury cars run better and are objectively of higher quality
And you believe the price of a luxury car is determined solely by how well it runs? Embarrassing. If you understand why luxury cars can command a higher price than their specs warrant, you'd understand why people buy Apple products (or you'd understand if you bothered to read the rest of my post instead of just the last sentence).
>>69609872
You assume libertarians give a shit if an idiot makes a bad choice.
>>69609995
Being rational does not mean making the right decision all the time fagass
>>69609872
>fad diets exist
>Libertarianism has therefore objectively failed on all counts
Nice shitpost faggot
>>69611421
>comparing mac to a luxury car
>comparing mac to custom built PCs
>>69609872
>People regularly consume high fructose corn syrup
And it is super subsidized shattering the price and incentivising poor people to buy shit that uses this.
>>69611820
Better than starving orphans or child prostitution orphans, which is what happened last time we tried to ban exports from a country practicing child labor.
You can fuck off with you "think of the poor, foreign children!" act unless you're seriously advocating that Americans donate their tax dollars to all the poor Pajeets
>>69612080
how is that a shitpost when it's reality?
By Libertarian logic, consumers dictate quality and the most effective product always wins, right?
You eat less than you burn off and you lose weight, but despite this easy fact, countless people still buy into fad diets and are unable to lose weight and "try everything" to the point where our nation is facing an obesity epidemic.
And yet, the golden product which is most effective and highest of quality is sitting right there, untouched.
>>69610722
>No, it's not a moral system
yes it is
>>69609872
>35.7% of America's population is obese because they can't read nutrition labels
This wouldn't be a problem if governments didn't support them with welfare. The extreme cases would die off and all others would get a fair warning to change their life for the better.
Exact same case with single mothers and wannabe gangsters who live off welfare. The civilized world shouldn't be paying for those with bad lifestyles, they do not deserve compassion.
>>69612161
so you are freely admitting any means necessary to get a product is A-ok?
>>69612107
Are you illiterate? Apple products are comparable to luxury cars in that they sell at a higher price compared to products of similar specs due to "coolness" or "prestige".
I didn't compare macs to custom built PCs at all -- I was pointing out that it's easier for the technologically illiterate to operate and bugfix a mac than a PC.
>>69609872
>Stupid people buy shitty food
>have health issues
>die faster/at a greater rate than people who don't eat like shit
>eventually no one buys shit-tier food
1. No body said the market is fast, it is just always right
2. We would not have this issue if not for the fact than inbetween step 2 and 3 is muh free healthcare keeping stupid people alive longer than they normally would
>>69612358
What are suggesting as an alternative that _doesn't_ lead to starving children in India?
>>69609872
All of that stuff is because Americans care more about price than quality.
>>69612555
I'm suggesting no alternative. This isn't an either or.
I'm merely pointing out you can't rely on average people to govern themselves 100% of the time and make the best choices for everyone and not just their immediate wants.
Again, my democracy example still holds true. Why aren't pure democracies utopias?
>>69609872
>Humans are irrational. So lets take that irrationality and give it a sanction to commit violence on a massive scale.
>Great idea
>>69609872
>Fuck freedom. The goys need to be protected from themselves. Theyre sick, and us chosen people are the cure.
:^)
>>69612679
Have we actually ever done a pure democracy? I cannot think of a single example of a nation where every adult human can go and vote directly on law.
>>69609872
>I don't like people's choices and therefore I'm allowed to force my will upon them
>>69609872
>be me, a consumer
>happen to not be completely fucktarded
>manage to easily avoid all of the products and foods that I don't find to my liking
>rather select to consume products I find to be quality
Wow, it's like perspective actually works
>they always know what's best for them
>know what's best for them
>best for them
>for them
>THEM
Oh (you)
>>69612679
>I'm suggesting no alternative.
So if you believe libertarianism is the best possible solution, what exactly are you arguing with me for?
>Again, my democracy example still holds true. Why aren't pure democracies utopias?
You have a serious misrepresentation of markets if you're comparing them to democracies.
>>69611764
I used to be a libertarian, but those hot opinions sure convinced me otherwise. I'm a socialist now.
>>69610911
Because patent and IP laws protect companies far too much so they get Stagnant and stifle competition.
If you can make a phone 100x better in every aspect than an iPhone at 1/10th the price and the only thing stopping you is because Apple is sitting on a patent. Then its entirely anti-consumer and anti-capitalist and against Free Market principles, the best products win and the worse products end up in the trash.
But when people can BUY patents they can sit on them and that's wrong on every political system.
>Libertarians believe that consumers can dictate quality and regulate companies in every aspect just by their demand
Yes.
>35.7% of America's population is obese because they can't read nutrition labels
>Fad diets are STILL a thing despite it being PROVEN calories in vs calories out is all you need to know
>People regularly consume high fructose corn syrup
All things that are perfectly fine. I can go out and buy pure cane sugar Coca Cola if I wait for Passover and shop in a Jewish market, but then I don't buy much soda since I know calories in must equal calories out. Libertarians aren't going to hold companies responsible and sue them for the actions of stupid and ignorant consumers. They are just going to avoid them.
They will go after the companies that deliberately lie and harm consumers because that is the right thing to do.
>It's a well known fact that Apple manufactures their products in inhumane Chinese factories but people still buy them anyway and don't care
This is the only real problem. Outsourcing and importing goods with free trade. Some markets don't have anything other than job destroying, slave labor imported goods with no alternative. It slowly kills the wealth of the middle class and eventually wipes out consumerism.
>People know cigarettes kill them and give them cancer but still buy them anyway and don't care
Again, you can't spend all my time and money saving stupid people. Back in the day when they were lying about the health issues they deserved to be destroyed. They lost a lot of lawsuits for it. Now it's an idiot's right to choose whether to be addicted to an expensive deadly habit.
>>69613086
anarchy
>>69613130
>You have a serious misrepresentation of markets if you're comparing them to democracies.
no, your regulating concept is that the consumer will know best and somehow regulate 100% of everything behind the product via his demand.
voting in politics follow the exact same principles of supply and demand.
Here is my suggestion: Limited government, yes, but with selective quality control to give society at least a skeleton to grow around.
>must serve X amount of years in the military in order to gain the ability to vote
>they of course put you through educational courses, physically demanding courses, etc.
>the vote may not always be 100% in everyone's best interests, but the voter himself is of a higher quality
selective in quality but with standards very broad and not overly specific as to prevent tyranny against specific groups of people.
There is room for consumer demand regulating products, but not every single bit of it.
>>69613086
Switzerland.
>>69612253
Except it's not just the very poor living on welfare. It's pretty much everyone and they all drag down society with their disgusting fatness.
Most people cannot be trusted to take care of themselves and must be guided.
>>69609872
Libertarians don't believe anything "dictates" anything else - people only command themselves.
>because they can't read nutrition labels
That has virtually nothing to do with it.
>>69610722
1.That's a strawman to allude to libertarians as not wanting the environment protected by federal government. There is definitely a role for the federal government to play and that includes environment, even Ron Paul will tell you that.
2.Ultimately you have to rely on your own intelligence, people have the freedom to expose brands that do distasteful and immoral things and people have the right to not go to those brands. But people also have the right to become obese from McDonalds. Also, you make the case that we shouldn't have to rely on the intelligence of others, only to suggest we hire the intelligence of others to look out for us.
>>69612847
There are stupid people and there are smart people.
They are not interchangeable. The educated are less fallible than the uneducated, hence why they can get the privilege of authority.
Otherwise you should also be against any form of rules and regulations and hierarchy that companies in your AnCap society would use to govern themselves.
>>69613674
Who are you to "trust" anyone else? People don't operate based on whether or not you "trust" them to do whatever you care about. They operate on their own values - not yours. Unless you want to give everyone else license to impose themselves on you, you'd best refrain from trying to impose yourself on others.
>>69613727
Don't box in libertarians. I'm a libertarian and I think the only way to be consistent in that position is to not want government dictating to people what they can or can't do with their own property when it has nothing to do with other people.
>>69613731
You don't understand what "authority" actually is.
>>69613614
>voting in politics follow the exact same principles of supply and demand.
Yes. I'm only allowed to go to the grocery store once every four years. When I go, me and my fellow customers have a vote on what brand of bleach to buy and we are all forced to buy the majority opinion -- we are not even allowed to refuse buying bleach at all. We are not allowed to compare different brands of bleach -- at best we can look at the bleach used in other countries and guess if they will work well in ours. It doesn't really matter though, because the winner-takes-all voting system means both brands of bleach are nearly identical.
Don't be retarded.
>Here is my suggestion: Limited government, yes, but with selective quality control to give society at least a skeleton to grow around.
Okay, so you _were_ feeding me a load of bullshit when you pretended to care about foreign children.
>>69609872
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounded_rationality
>>69609872
You people do realize that the pendulum is swinging more and more towards healthy foods because more and more Americans are educated on how to read nutrition labels?
>>69611562
I almost replied but then I saw the flag
>>69611184
So instead of the stupid only fucking themselvrs over, we should empower the government more so we can all be fucked over instead of just the stupid
>>69609872
>35.7% of America's population is obese because they can't read nutrition labels
Because they don't care.
>People know cigarettes kill them
They don't care
>It's a well known fact that Apple manufactures their products in inhumane Chinese factories
No, it isn't. And for one thing, those factories wouldn't have employees if they didn't want to work there. They are also usually better than other jobs in the area.
What's your point? That people are stupid? Including yourself? You want to force people, like Michelle Obama wants to do, to eat what you think they should eat and buy?
daily reminder that libertarians are autistic, socially retarded, and morally insane:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0042366
>>69614787
Thats rich coming from the faggot who wants the government to keep him from doing stupid shit because he's too autistic to do it himself
>>69614935
>Hernandez
You have to go back
>>69609872
Fucking this. Libertarians are literally the cancer of America.
>>69615122
Too bad he's right.
>>69614047
my fellow Owen, I usually box in Libertarians as arguing for the U.S. Constitution, which includes instances where the federal government can step over the rights of the individual like eminent domain for example.
Aren't you therefore ancap?
>>69614616
People are stupid and they should be forced to eat healthy because it's better for them and it's better for us stupid fat fuck parents get their kids hooked on Coca Cola and sugar not realizing that they are literally ruining they're lives no fat fuck needs to buy 64 oz pop to drink in one sitting
>>69609872
consumers have always dictated quality, the problem is that consumers are being suppressed by the left
authoritarian cunt
pls fully swallow the red pill so you can handle the randal
>>69615437
Libertarian is a far more fundamental ideological mindset than simply "people who like the U.S. constitution".
To copy/paste - Libertarianism is a political philosophy that upholds liberty as its principal objective. Libertarians seek to maximize autonomy and freedom of choice, emphasizing political freedom, voluntary association, and the primacy of individual judgment.
>>69615307
>the cancer of america
libertarians founded america you incredibly stupid faggot
libertarian-ism is the most american ideology by so far
>>69615719
You're too inarticulate to feasibly be on the command side of the equation, so I find it funny you're quite literally arguing that you want other people to control your life for you. What a good sheep.
>>69614241
>demand for good politican to fix problems
>supply of candidates to pick from
>demand for dish soap
>supply of different brands to pick from
HURR DURR
>>69616009
>good politician
Literally an oxymoron.
NOT
>>69615437
>I usually box in Libertarians as arguing for the U.S. Constitution, which includes instances where the federal government can step over the rights of the individual like eminent domain for example.
The constitution says the Federal government can tax to whatever degree it likes and employ any measures it wants to promote the general welfare -- if read literally. If any libertarian is a fan of the constitution, it's because they're a fan of the ideas it stood for (a government that respects the rights of the individual) and not what the constitution literally says.
>>69609872
dude
we're in a country of people who couldn't set a VCR who are now clambering for driverless cars
society is fucked
>>69616361
Since the doctrine set out before ratification of the constitution was that it was to be treated as was outlined in the Federalist Papers, that's not actually the case. It's just that Hamilton and soon following John Marshall completely ignored the Federalist Papers *after having campaigned for the constitution ON THE BASIS OF THEM* because they didn't like being so limited.
>>69616009
Good argument against democracy
>>69614441
It's true what they say, Americans are the least educated first worlders.
>>69617424
Is that so? I wonder why it's the case that we're far and away more prosperous than anywhere else then?
>>69609872
Social Darwinism > Utopian Libertarianism
If retarded people are killing themselves by making dumb decisions that's a GOOD thing. It cleanses the gene pool of stupidity and related negative traits.
>>69615825
>>69616361
But in that sense isn't it essentially synonymous to Anarcho Capitalism?
what differentiates libertarianism from anarchy if they are both attempting the maximization of liberty?
Is it really wrong to only consider libertarian, the subset of the liberty idealists, like Ron Paul and others, who apply the ideals of liberty within the confines of the constitution and to the U.S. specifically?
>>69615968
You sound like a fag
>>69617696
But of course my dear Willie, human instinct however desperately desires the survival of everyone. Negative eugenics basically no longer exists in Western nations.
All we have left is the success of whoever desires to breed the most, so Whites lose out every time because we evolved to be more careful about reproducing.
>>69617713
No, not really. Those are broad concepts. You might make the argument that an-cap might be the maximization of commitment to those principles, but since they're general values and not necessarily absolute ones people can argue about what state of affairs actually achieves such a maximization.
It's wrong colloquially to consider it like that, yes. Libertarian is an umbrella term.
Thread theme:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcUZrDX5P7A
>>69617713
You can be a libertarian while still believing the government should have some involvement -- just as I can still refer to an ice cream cone as "cold" when there are plenty of colder things that exist. It's a philosophy, not a rigid definition.
But to limit it strictly to followers of the U.S. constitution would be a crime against many libertarian thinkers.
(As an aside, Ron Paul publicly acknowledges the teachings of anarchist libertarians and he believes anarchy is a "good idea")
>>69617899
),:
>>69617899
Says the man with "dick" in his name. I have very little doubt you've had dick in other places on your person too.
>>69618116
>Erma
>man
calm down now ladies
I'm going to quote the entire first sentence of Ludwig Von Mises' chapter on Business Propaganda in his book Human Action:
>The consumer is not omniscient.
Woah.
>>69618116
Post a picture of yourself to prove you're not a fatty
>>69618631
>quoting anything from a person responsible for 'praxeology', a fancy word for 'religious dogma'
>>69618760
>genetic fallacy
>>69618855
your mom committed a genetic fallacy when she didn't abort you
>>69618900
checked and kekd
>>69609872
The point isn't chasing Utopia. It's a system where the amount of pain and death is kept to a practical minimal, compared to postponing it where as mass pain and death on a apocalyptic level is avoided.
If the Goverment didn't inflate capital and create all these federal jobs, people would wouldn't be so fat.
>>69618900
Anti-libertarians so witty, fuq. How can I possibly reply?
>>69619100
Where's the picture tubby
>>69619469
Post a picture of yourself without dick in your mouth first, Lorena.
fuck off cletus
>>69609872
and yet the silk roads descendants continue to expand
quality getting higher
prices getting lower
long live lex mercatoria and all its analogues
