Well, /pol/?
it will increase unemployment and $15 an hour would increase it a lot, millions of jobs gone
>>71932587
this, the real minimum wage will always be 0
>>71932141
>Bernstein
>>71932141
>using mininum wage to support a family
They deserve to live in poverty
>Bernstein
This is Bernie on steroids.
This is how the west is losing medial labor. Ungrateful as fuck. Mexicans hop the border and work even harder jobs just in order to make money while you protest being not paid enough.
Go get an education if you don't like it.
>>71932141
>Bernstein
Oh boy
It'll increase unemployment and companies will translate the new costs into the prices.
>>71932587
same FUD echoed every step of the march of human rights
>>71932980
This. If you're earning minimum wage, don't have a family.
>>71932141
Many people will lose jobs and hyper inflation will ultimately kill the American dream. Short term gain to raise minimum wage, discourages advanced education. It basically rewarding laziness and holding wealthy people accountable for others mistakes.
Not to forget people like me who own franchise businesses who could overnight instal automated tellers and layoff half of my staff as I conduct business in an "at will" state. In a decade I won't even need humans to operate the machines, only maintain them every once in a while and fill them up with coffee grounds/filters which would be a part time job at most.
I don't need half the staff I have now, I employ more people than need to out of generosity. At the end of the day feeding MY family is most important to me, so cutting my employees by 50% won't cause lost sleep in my home. At all.
It will also encourage more migration to an already corrupted country. With the cost of housing, medical care, feeding and educating new migrants it negates the point of raising wages for people already here. It degrades the integrity of the American dream to an ATM machine for menial work performance.
Facts:
>average time spent at a min wage job is about 6 months (after that they usually get a small raise or quit)
>the min wage inflates value of work. To pay someone $15 every low skill person has to be worth $15, meaning they have to produce that cost in labor alone, not including parts used, electricity, ect
>that amount cuts people off from welfare services that they couldn't afford anyways. (Ex. Childcare is free for a single parent 2 kid household making under 20,000. It's $10,000 a year at least if you make 30,000)
>this is why we are manufacturing overseas
>it exclude a the poor/unskilled/young. Why hire them if someone with experience will do the job anyway?
>"Australia does it" but their wage is actually about $12 and everything is more expensive
The min wage was supposed to help a single person get a foot in the door of life. Not be a substitution for trying to climb up the corporate ladder.
Teenagers will have more money going into and during college to get a headstart in life = wealthier adults coming out of college
There are people who can only work minimum wages due to maybe a disability or something happened during their life that they can only work there, or perhaps didn't have the luxury or the necessities to get a better paying job and need a higher wage to live
>>71933931
You think colleges won't raise tuition?
I completely agree that a $15 an hour minimum wage is what we SHOULD have. Companies CAN afford it.
HOWEVER, in the real world, those making MORE than $15 an hour get fucked over by the increase in prices and workers get their hours cut if not replaced by robots. There is enough money in offshore bank accounts to bail out every country from their debt and because of them, that's why we are in debt.
Do I support $15 an hour? Yes.
Do I WANT $15 an hour to be minimum? Fuck no. Companies are too greedy.
>>71933931
>Teenagers will have more money going into and during college
>implying they'll get jobs in the first place
>>71932141
>Bernstein
The minimum wage is only useful to price poor people out of the job market. It only supports middle class privilege so lower classes, which don't have resources to pay themselves an education, can't compete with middle class by offering working for less.
Having said that, the minimum wage is also a lie. Why? Because the minimum wage will always be $0/month.
>>71932141
>Even entry level jobs should allow you to push out and support a litter of useless shits.
But why?
>>71932141
It really only works in heavily socialist countries, like Denmark. Otherwise the price of everything skyrockets.
Just look at Australia. Their minimum wage is high, so the price of everything is high.
>>71933931
But you're completely forgetting the fact that raising the minimum wage will raise the price of everything else related to that job and any other one requiring unskilled labor. Buying power won't magically go up.
You shouldn't have a family if you can't afford one. Business' should not be punished for your lack of skill, and poor planning. Also
>Bernstein
>>71934340
This
>>71932141
Are millions of people living on the streets and starving because they make minimum wage?
No?
Then it's wanted, not needed.
>b-but I'm over 30 and still make minimum wage
Are you a mother? If so, are you with your partner?
If you answered "no" to either of those questions, you're a failure, and you're asking us to subsidize your failure.
If you're a wedded mother, making minimum wage and taking care of a kid, the father's wage should cover you. If not, you're living beyond your means to the detriment of your children.
UC Berkeley supported a minimum wage hike to $15 an hour more than any other liberal shithole. Well California passed it, and now UC Berkeley is laying off over 500 hourly workers.
Eat a dick on your 100% minimum wage hike. Liberals can't deal with reality.
>>71932141
>$15 minimum wage
This number is literally just arbitrarily picked with no actual factual basis.
>>71932141
>Bernstein
/pol/ is alway right
>>71932141
If there is a Chick-Fil-A and a McDonald's near each other in an urban area around you, visit both.
Chick-Fil-A pays more.
And you know what? They have a way different calibre of people working for them.
What this will do is like this: If I'm a fast food franchisee, and I have to pay $15 for my workers, I am NOT going to hire the kind of trashy ghetto/barrio people that work there now. I would hire retiree housewives from the suburbs, for which it is now worth the trip downtown. Or college students. I don't need to prove that this will happen - you can already see it at an establishment that pays only slightly more. $15 opens up an entirely different labor pool, and if I had to, I'd take from that better pool.
But soon the trashy ghetto/barrio people will be screaming that they can't get jobs and we have to do something about that.
>increase minimum wage
>an even bigger excuse to automatise labour
great plan
>>71934085
>>71932141
Fuck anyone who supports this $15 minimum wage.
I bet none of you how support it spent zero days as a small business owner. You people think every mom and pop shop is just run by some rich "ceo guy".
>>71932141
They're going to find out that the real minimum wage is $0/hr when a lot of those jobs go away.
>>71933534
>thinks history is a linear progression
I'm going to enjoy drinking tears from cucks like you when modern civilization collapses and the remnant reverts to a traditionalist society.
>>71934689
What's even better, is that once the automation has been purchased and implemented it's there for good.
Even when the realize it was a bad idea and repeal the minimum wages laws it will be too late.
The robots will already be in place in their old job.
I'm retired so I get to watch the carnage.
If they end up doing that here i will fire my entire kitchen staff and fill them with tfws. My labor budget just is barley under 28% do you think i can afford giving everyone extra money? No unless my sales magically double overnight then im fucked also what would that do to the cost of food here thats just at 27% and im finnally making money after 2 years if an increase happens ill have to shut down my restaurant because a bunch of entitled millennials feel like they should get paid 15 dollars an hour
>>71935090
The iron law of economics is that a worker is only worth the amount he produces above the cost of his employment.
Try as you may, you can't legislate their value arbitrarily.
>>71932141
>bernstein
The Path Of Light is always right.
>>71935090
But anon, you own a business. That means your like a ceo. Maybe instead of paying yourself $300 million a year you can pay your employees more
>Bernstein
>>71935559
That's not any law of economics you bern out. Someone is worth what they are willing to work for
>>71935559
Of value to his EMPLOYER Anon.
>Bernstein
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
>>71932141
https://fee.org/articles/how-the-minimum-wage-helped-wreck-puerto-ricos-economy/
>>71932141
Kill yourself, nigger.
Maybe wages would be higher if there weren't millions of illegal immigrants working for less than minimum wage
>>71932141
I've not once worked for minimum wage.
Fuck, my first summer job at 16 was above minimum wage.
Where do you even find minimum wage jobs?
>>71935648
>. That means your like a ceo
a CEO could spell "you're"
>>71936148
Mah jerbs.
Fuck off, Paco no-hablo-ingles isn't driving down wages by much.
They're all on welfare and vote for leftist policy, that's the issue with Paco
>>71935737
>Someone is worth what they are willing to work for
>>71934533
Source? I need a good laugh.
>>71936186
the home depot, mcdonalds, taco bell, wal mart, target, wendys, toys r us, best buy.
>>71936186
Get a job at McD's or something and you'll get minimum wage.
>increase minimum wage by over 100%
>continue to allow unfettered immigration
>unemployment won't increase at all
>prices for goods won't increase
I just watched an interviewer cause a Trump protester's brain to fry when trying to reconcile these ideas.
>>71936494
>that's the issue with Paco
>>71934533
thats just that area though, cali minimum wage is $10. iirc its supposed to be 15 by the year 2020
>>71936186
I worked one job at minimum wage at a mom and pop furniture warehouse. Every job after that I started above minimum wage. Not much by much but still above.
Honest question. What happens to those already making above 15 dollars an hour, but aren't super rich?
Are they just basically fucked? Is the middle class just not a thing, now?
>>71932141
Depends on the cost of living of the area you're in.
Forcing $15 minimum wage in a place like rural Texas would just be fucking silly.
I made about $9 an hour for a while and was able to afford an apartment, food, alcohol, and my car payment.
When I got bumped to $11.50, I had extra money for a gaming rig, more alcohol, and eating out occasionally.
$15 would be insanely good money, but put undue stress on the employer.
Only Jews don't want to raise the minimum wage
You're not a Jew are you /pol/?
>>71932789
underrated
>>71932141
>Having a family as a minimum wage slave
>Bernstein
>>71932141
Why stop at $15? Why not $20? or $50? if we did $500/h minimum, everyone would make 7 figure salaries! Seriously why aren't we doing this??
>>71936863
The answer is yes, they're fucked. What the $15 advocates will claim is that those making above $15 will get wage increases as well, but they don't seem to comprehend that that accomplishes nothing. All you did was shift the nominal dollar amount but everyone effectively makes the same wage relative to costs of goods and housing.
>>71936963
Liberals can't into economics. $15 minimum wage would destroy rural economies all over the country.
>>71934689
What's wrong with automating labor? That's a sign of progress. Are you some sort of luddite?
>>71934339
It doesn't raise prices by as much as the increase in the minimum wage, though. That would only be true for a business for which 100% of its expenses went towards minimum wage labor.
For example, the company I work for has ~8000 employees, and as far as I know, none of them make less than $15/hr (maybe the guards/coffee boys, but that's a tiny fraction of the workforce, and an even tinier fraction of our overall operating expenses). Therefore, a minimum wage hike would only have a trivial effect on the cost of our products.
It's not as simple as "when ya double the minimum wage, prices double". It's "when you double the minimum wage, the fraction of overall expenses that goes towards minimum wage labor doubles". It's different for every business. For Wal-Mart, it happens to be pretty small. They could pay their US workers $12/hour and pay for it entirely with a 1.1% price hike.
http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/pdf/2011/bigbox_livingwage_policies11.pdf
Tell you what
I would keep the wage where it is at on the condition that consumer prices go down.
Does that sound like a better deal?
>>71936968
Yeah, only Jews. Or, you know, small business owners who operate on miniscule margins as is and would be forced out of business if their costs increased.
The Jews would love to see a minimum wage increase because they own the companies making billions in profits every year and are very well insulated from almost all government regulatory barriers to operating, including minimum wage.
>>71937510
>consumer prices go down
You're going to force me to lower my prices when I'm already scraping by on a 15-30% margin?
Fuck that.
>>71937270
You cannot disprove that a certain quantity of something is good, simply by claiming that a massive amount of that same thing would be bad. For example, if you're sick, it might be helpful to take a dose or two of medicine. That doesn't mean "why not take the WHOLE BOTTLE, you'd be SUUUUUUPER HEALTHY! WHY AREN'T WE DOING THIS?" There are plenty of concepts where zero isn't the answer, and infinity isn't the answer, and the solution is some quantity in between.
You can support the current minimum wage, and even support raising it to a higher level, and it isn't logically inconsistent to think a different minimum wage is too high.
>>71937659
Careful how you talk to me
Lower your prices
>>71932944
Kek
>>71937757
But in this case, $15 is a massive hike that would be more than double the current minimum wage in much of the country. It's already an absurd figure to begin with.
>>71934667
This is correct.
Such an increase in wage would force the market to self-correct. It would do so either through innovation (Automatization),
through raised prices (lowering the buying power of your $15)
or by employing workers who actually provide a service that justifies a wage of $15.
Isn't $15 an hour something you would typically earn in a trade during an apprenticeship?
Why would you bust your ass off laying tiles, if you could just flip burgers and be a rude dick to customers all day for the same pay?
tl;dr: Leftists try economy. Leftists fail.
>>71934085
>companies are too greedy
>but it's not greedy for me to demand more money just because they have more than me
>>71937907
No, fuck off to Wal-Mart.
I've got plenty of customers who are willing to pay a premium for a better product.
>>71934896
You don't even hide it, you want civilization to collapse. The only way your ideology has a chance is if it does. Your ideology demands chaos and mass death.
You're ISIS in Westernized form, nothing more.
>>71934085
Replacing people's jobs with robots is good.
>>71934840
Why are people on the right so obsessed with small businesses?
>>71937907
This stupid bullshit drives me crazy.
>no that $200 dollar TV is not just as good as the $800 TV no matter what you think
>no, I cannot physically do a warranty repair in the store and guarantee that you'll get it back by the end of the week. Fuck, you didn't even buy the warranty plan. No I can't sell you a warranty plan a year later AND after you broke it.
The customer is almost always an idiot. Thankfully, most of them also can recognize that this is the case and are willing to at least listen to advice.
>>71938070
That's only because the wage has been kept down for so long. Historically this is the worst minimum wage in the US in nearly a century. The minimum wage hasn't been increased with inflation and the middle class has been shrinking while those in poverty have grown dramatically.
>stuck in a shitty dead end minimum wage job
>I know! I'll start a family!
These people do not deserve help.
>>71938194
We will boycott you and laugh when you go under
You are not entitled to customers
>>71938623
>We
>>71938539
This. The argument to end all arguments on the topic.
minimum wage effectively doesn't exist, there is always an illegal willing to work a minimum wage job for less than half the minimum wage
all $15/hr minimum wage would do is increase the demand for illegal workers.
But I find it interesting that we 'need' it to be $15 an hour.
$15 in 2016 USD is equivalent to $2.80 in 1973 USD. The 1973 minimum wage was $1.60 an hour.
$1.60 in 1973 USD is roughly $8.58 in 2016 USD.
Here's an idea: How about not living in expensive cities if you can't afford it? I pay $400 a month for my apartment with all utilities included, if I lived in the city nearby(which is one of the lowest cost in USA) I'd be looking at $8-900 a month easy.
>>71938463
Those idiots keep your lights on, without them you starve
>>71938304
Because people on the right are, have family members that are, or friends that are small businesses owners. They are successful/know successful people.
>>71937657
He's just bating friendo, quote is by
>Bernstein
>>71938304
Because small businesses are the backbone of the entire economy. Mega-corps cannot feasibly expand enough into all the rural areas around the country to be able take up the slack of supply that the absence of small businesses would create.
>>71938784
That doesn't mean they aren't still idiots.
>>71932141
How about getting a better job?
>>71938470
>Historically this is the worst minimum wage in the US in nearly a century
Not even remotely true.
>>71932141
> Should have let the economy grow with population instead of both importing people and fobbing others off with welfare.
>>71938196
>Everything I don't like is ISIS
this policy is to make robotics more profitable.
>>71939041
>>Historically this is the worst minimum wage in the US in nearly a century
>Not even remotely true.
Wow you sure showed him, it's just stagnant since 1965 amid rising cost of living.
50 years of zero growth, a mark of US quality.
>>71939424
Cost of living is just fine in rural areas.
Idiots should stop living in cities, we have a massive country.
>>71939424
>zero growth in a minimum wage
>this implies zero growth in an economy for your black bull dick addled brain
Sure, Sven.
>>71936596
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/uc-berkeley-touts-15-minimum-wage-then-fires-hundreds-of-workers-after-it-passes/
>>71932141
These poor fools think that they can create wage inflation which moves every body up a slot and makes the money of people sitting on piles of savings worth less.
Except, inflation might not be a result in a deflationary era.
The more likely result is that people who program robots and embedded systems will have more work as human workers are permanently eliminated from the low skilled labor workplace.
>>71936186
TAing engineering classes at a top USA uni. No joke, first semester TAs got paid min wage.
Now that we're automating I can unironically pretend to be a Sanders' supporter.
>raise cost of running business
>businesses employ less workers
>low skilled blacks and hispanics are ignored
>low skilled immigrates are ignored
>low skilled youth are ignored
>low skilled women are ignored
Cant afford them.
Now you have more unemployment....and you want to increase what you get on the dole, that youve forced people into having to get.
But at the same time you cry for college to be free. College was the only thing that would make you competitive in this new market. But now college is worth less because...its free.
>now associate degrees are ignored
>more on the dole
>more costly dole
>less tax money from workers to feed the dole
>more spending for """"free""""" college
Just fuck my economy up senpai. You bernouts are so removed from reality its sickening.
>>71939424
>stagnant since 1965 amid rising cost of living.
It literally said 2014 dollars.
>>71941582
I don't think college degrees were worth much to begin with. It's the profession that matters. Whether you get there through college or simply working, it's the same
>>71933911
Our min wage is $17.25 AUD off the top of my head. This is for someone over 18 I think. I know that most places, under 15 your get like $10 AUD, then it goes up about $2 each year until most places pay someone over 21 around $22 AUD.
>>71944372
13,298025 US$ That's still a lot.
Too much for the US, where you can live for cheap if you're not a moron.
>>71944986
Ok Hans $13.25USD minimum. $7.70USD we pay a 15 year old kid or under.
>>71945472
I'm not trying to insult Australia, just saying that this would be too much for the US, where the cost of living tends to be lower.
>>71932141
Some states and municipalities raising the minimum to $15 makes sense, but a federal $15/hr minimum would be awful.
>>71933931
Teenagers don't use their money wisely. That's why so many of them support the min wage increase so they can have more $$$ to waste.
>>71937400
>What's wrong with automating labor? That's a sign of progress. Are you some sort of luddite?
I don't think that's what he's saying.
I think he means
>increase minimum wage
>an even bigger excuse to automatise labour
>less people in minimum wage jobs as they're replaced with machines
>protesters who wanted increase minimum wage now protest their jobs being replaced by robots
