Can Americans clear up this "HEALTH CARE" meme for the retards?
Like if I was a broke ass drunk who tripped and broke his arm, could I get it fixed in the hospital without insurance??
Would I have to live with a broken arm if I had no insurance?
Seems like it is a rumour, can Americans confirm?
>>71505356
Doctors are required to do everything they can to save your life. If you had a broken arm is highly likely it could get infected and you could die so yes, they would give medical care and send you the bill if you could pay or not.
Do the doctors just turn you away at the door, or do they fix your arm and send you the bill in the mail?
>Like if I was a broke ass drunk who tripped and broke his arm, could I get it fixed in the hospital without insurance??
yes
>Would I have to live with a broken arm if I had no insurance?
no
people just go to the emergency room and never pay the bill
>>71505443
No getting turned away in the USA if it's a serious life threatening injury like a broken bone or a wound that wound stop bleeding.
>>71505437
Okay, so let's say if you fell off your bike and needed 5 stitches, but had no insurance.
It's not life threatening, but painful. Would they turn you away?
we also have county health clinics that operate on a sliding scale or subsidized by medicare and local funds.
I got an STD and was able to get antiobiotics with no money out of pocket.
Also have been to the county mental institute a few times and it's all paid by tax.
>>71505443
bill in the mail, and you are on the hook for it like if you cant pay your credit is ruined.
most bankruptcy in the US is due to medical bills
>>71505551
Yes, Canada, come over our border and get free healthcare. It's pretty quick, too.
>>71505356
Doctors have to do everything to save your life, you'll have a fixed arm and a huge hospital bill, if you're on Obamacare you'll still have a huge hospital bill if you're young because the cost of Obamacare is being pushed off on the younger generation, the younger people pay for older people. So pretty much what might have been a copay of 30 dollars is now 300 dollars on Obamacare, private insurance is still better than Obamacare.
Pretty much we're being fucked in the ass but we can still have our lives saved
>>71505356
short answer ---> yes
Better question, If you are a broke ass drunk who falls down and breaks his arm why should anyone have to fix you?
>>71505356
No. If you're a scumbag, or just ((really)) poor, you can go to the ER and not pay the bill. Happens all the time. But, if you're not a scumbag, you can work out a payment plan with billing on the spot. They will work with you, but they are a cynical lot, with good reason.
>>71505443
depends on whether it's a private or public (non-profit) hospital. and if it's an ER entry the person is unlikely to be turned away.
>>71505437
>>71505455
>>71505490
Yeah it doesnt sound too bad. Canadian media portrays it like you guys turn away bleeding people in the ER. It's obviously bullshit.
My grandpa spent his dying days in an American hospital and it was perfectly fine. Probably better than what he would get in Canada.
I don't understand the whole "hurr health care" it seems like it works fine in the states.
>>71505443
It's literally illegal for a hospital to refuse you treatment even if you can't pay.
If you get a massive bill you can't possibly pay you file for bankruptcy and get your debt wiped out but have a shit credit rating.
>>71505356
Why don't doctors work directly as State/Federal employees?
It makes a lot of sense to me and if someone has a good argument I'd love to hear it
>>71506277
Money.
>>71506277
The state should own all hospitals then, they could be as efficient as the DMV.
Health insurance is easy to afford if you've an established career.
>>71506376
Kek
>>71506376
Police work for the government
Fireman work for the government
The guy who gives you first aid and drives you to the hospital works for the government
Why not the doctor?
>>71506055
The reason why that is, is because most premier hospitals in the US are usually exclusive care units or high-end HMOs (Kaiser Permanente). These tend to be expensive and most Americans are butthurt because the businesses are very picky as to whos a patient and who is not. Kaiser per example has given me immunotherapy for 2 years for my allergies, and the total bill every visit was 5 bucks for co-pay, whereas most hospital specialist visits are 20 dollars co-pay BEFORE treatment costs (PPO only cover fractions of cost).
Basically middle class Americans get high end healthcare because we can afford it, and the hospitals are willing to kick people out the door for being poor plebs, unless they're giving birth or missing organs.
>>71506570
because medical care is not something that you want doled out at the speed of government
>>71506570
Do you trust the government any more than you trust the populace?
>>71506570
Veterans hospital is a great example of American state run healthcare
>>71506277
Problem here in Canada is that the Doctor's Union is so rich and powerful that they can lobby the government for whatever they want.
Canadian health care is massively wasteful and inefficient.
If any left wing fags like Bernie Sanders talk about "Canadian health care" turn it off. That shit pisses me off so much. Canadian health care is probably the worst and most wasteful model in the world.
>>71506570
>14th amendment: Freedom of Contract, Lochner v. New York. Any entity who is not permitted to deal with immediate life threatening situations are their main contractual responsibilities are not obligated to work under government entity.
i.e. plumbers or doctors dont deal with dying niggers on the road, paramedics do. Doctors still have to register for state certification, and monitored, but are paid on their own skills in a private setting.
you'll get treated but they'll send you a massive bill and your life will be ruined forever.
years ago i fell and did something to my foot, don't know if i broke it or sprained it or what, i just hobbled on it for a couple weeks and bought a cane to take some pressure off. it felt better after a month and a half or so.
and two years ago i had a bad stomach ache for literally 2 and a half months straight. don't know what that was.
those were the two times i should have really probably gone to a doctor but didn't because i couldn't afford to.
>>71505356
>Like if I was a broke ass drunk who tripped and broke his arm, could I get it fixed in the hospital without insurance??
Yes
>Would I have to live with a broken arm if I had no insurance?
No
>Seems like it is a rumour, can Americans confirm?
Hospitals legally have to treat you. You'll be billed after.
Okay, so have you ever had a fellow employee go to the ER over a mild cough because they were trying to get out of work that day?
Imagine if they didn't have to pay the bill for that.
It's not so much a problem of them missing work as it is a problem of them being in the way of all the people who have a better reason to be at the ER.
>>71506620
However, skyrocketing healthcare costs and stagnant wages threaten to push great healthcare outside of middle-class wage availability. Also, the US pays nearly double what Canada does as a percentage of GDP on healthcare. Privatized healthcare is becoming unaffordable, pushing more people not to use it, in turn making it less affordable. Basically, we need to fix the whole fucked system
>>71506675
>>71506693
Then why do other emergency personnel work for the government?
Wouldn't it make sense to have all of them work for the government or not at all?
>>71506570
As an EMS professional I have to bust your bubble to tell you that when you ride in an ambulance we bill your insurance for the ride. If you don't have insurance the bill lands in your mailbox. Despite me working for the city you still foot the bill when you go for a ride with me.
>>71506874
Joke's on you.
I'm a huge supporter of privatizing emergency services.
>>71506874
most of them are employed by local governments which is a lot different
>>71506700
>MASSIVELY underfunded
>pay doctors less than what LITERALLY ANYONE ELSE offers so they get shit doctors
Try travelling to other places to see how their healthcare works.
>>71505356
No they have to treat you. A lot of times Catholic hospitals won't make you pay if you're homeless.
>>71506965
oh yes let me just incur some illness or injury so I can see how other countries healthcare works.
>>71506715
>Canadian health care is probably the worst and most wasteful model in the world.
it's possible that you have no perspective. I've been to Canada, your healthcare is fine.
>>71506055
And even if they send you a big ass bill, they won't really do anything to make you pay it unless you actually have the money.
Not having money won't end up with you dead.
It'll just fuck your money and/or credit.
Eventually this will drive you so poor that you can get on Medicaid/Medicare and the government will pay all your hospital bills anyway.
The system works!
>>71506765
'Murcah
>>71505356
Emergency room.
Michael Moore's Sicko explicitly says at the beginning that it is about insurance and not care.
>>71506570
Are you trying to say any of those things are run efficiently? Police have become revenue makers issuing tickets than actually protecting and serving. Firefighters make I five figure or low six figure salarys spending their time going to kiddie events or using the firetruck to get groceries for the firehouse. The ambulance driver gets shit pay because he's the only one that actually wants to save lives and will do the job regardless.
>>71506861
This is highly debatable in terms of why government regulation of private medical practices and hospitals is necessary to prevent debt among the citizens, but there are various reasons why this won't be taken seriously.
1. Hospitals are considered private for the most part. If anything, if people are not buying their deals, the free market would regulate the less demand by lowering price, driving up demand eventually.
2. Europe and Canada have a national healthcare system where its not the hard to get citizenship to either or. Most would look to others who argue we need that system and tell them to "fuck off you socialist".
And finally, although there is data to support your claim, most politically backed persons in washington are often bought out by places like pfizer, and other pharma companies. Although im no "ermergerd big pharma,", hospitals do indeed fear that if they worked with government to try to introduce this system, the drug companies could stop subsidizing their product to the hospital, which is not regulated by government to not do so, thus the hospital becomes less appealing due to less treatment options.
>>71506851
most employers offer healthcare plans so people wouldn't be paying anyway.
>>71506940
jokes on you, nobody cares about libertarians.
>>71507008
Or ask other people that have done that. I've been to a hospital in Japan. It was pretty good. Also, socialized.
>>71507196
The dilemma inherent to Libertarianism is always that people are free to be retarded and the government will always oblige them with permission.
>>71507161
That's taken out of your paycheck
illegals go to the hospital with fucking colds and get cough syrup
all free with no harassment, for not speaking English
if you speak english they're going to grill you about paying for everything, theyll investigate you.
>>71507081
except ruin your credit so you can never buy a house or a car. You know, no big deal.
>>71507325
>for 7 years
>>71507325
many jobs even run credit checks now, which should be illegal.
don't forget not being able to rent an apartment except in the most ghetto shithole you can find if you have bad credit.
>>71507391
Why should it be illegal for an employer to see what kind of person you are? Credit scores reflect how trustworthy you are.
>>71507347
>credit resets after 7 years
How's that liberal arts major coming?
>>71507129
>if people are not buying their deals, the free market would regulate the less demand by lowering price, driving up demand eventually
would you say emergency medical care is elastic or inelastic?
Your second point makes no sense.
Your third point, if anything, helps my argument that the whole system must be overhauled.
It's what you just said:
>although there is data to support your claim
Shit costs twice as much here as elsewhere and our outcomes are similar, not twice as good. The system needs to be rebuilt.
>>71507460
I don't think it should be illegal, but it does prop up a system where you can't learn from your mistakes.
>>71507305
whether you go or not. doesn't help your argument...
>>71507289
>tfw you come to that realization
>>71507460
Not him but I'll explain why there is no righteousness in credit checks by employers.
1. Credit Checks are relevant within the past 7 years. After 7 years + 1 month, the first month is gone, and thus doesn't describe an altogether opicture of the person. The recession hit in 2008- should a person who went heavy into debt in 2009 eliminate his chance to employment in 2016?
2. Credit Checks have begun to be implemented by businesses only in the past 10 years. about 25 years ago, even few lenders used credit checks due to lack of computers.
3. Credit Checks by Employers are hard checks, an inquiry would thus lower the credit score, creating an artificial barrier of trust.
>>71507503
You're kidding me right?
http://blog.equifax.com/credit/faq-how-long-does-information-stay-on-my-credit-report/
>>71507460
credit scores reflect how much money you have.
>>71507460
>uninsured because broke college student
>medical emergency makes me file for bankruptcy
>company runs credit check
Ah Ha! Look how irresponsible this person is!
>>71507665
...doesn't mean I'm prepared to abandon my values just because there's loads of retarded people around...
>>71506851
Very true.
We Americans are fucking EXCEPTIONAL individuals in general, but that includes the fact that we are also exceptionally talented at finding ways to exploit and abuse the system to our gain. At least now, if my employees use the doctor or hospital for an excuse, I know they're paying money out of pocket for doing so.
The main drain on too many hospitals/medical clinics is that there are millions of blacks and Mexicans who pay NOTHING here for their state-funded care, and the rest of us are paying for it. Kid has a runny nose? Take them to the ER!
If the rest of us, good and bad, all suddenly had free care, it'd all fall apart overnight under the strain.
>>71506620
Kaiser member here. This cost me all of $25 to get done.
>>71505437
I think they would do, but you would get a very high price, but in case of homeless person, they wouldn't even take you in, since they know no money is going to come from homeless.
>>71507752
>broke
>spends money he doesn't have on useless education
>needs money in an emergency
That's textbook irresponsible.
>>71507778
No I agree with you. I share your frustration
When are libturds going to realize capitalism is an artificial form of Darwinism?
>>71507596
>>71507596
>would you say emergency medical care is elastic or inelastic?
It's a necessity from a rare occurrence, that is by definition elastic, thus small changes would yield large price fluctuation.
>>71507596
>Your second point makes no sense.
It means the American Public, by consensus, would rather throw out the idea of national healthcare every time it is brought up. It's been attempted many times, and it takes weird government ways to pass these things (see Scalia's dissent on the obamacare trial).
>>71507596
>Your third point, if anything, helps my argument that the whole system must be overhauled.
You're right, it wasn't a disagreement and does support your claim; however, these are private entities, like us if we were to discuss the selling of alcohol, can only be controlled in a limited fashion (i.e. licensing, age, business ratings). Unless of course you wanna actually remove the idea of private sector and bring in the hospitals to be government operated, ya no thank you, I hate western dental here in California. I prefer private.
>>71507785
>If the rest of us, good and bad, all suddenly had free care, it'd all fall apart overnight under the strain.
but it would cost much less...? because E.R. trips would be reduced because everyone would have a primary care physician. Don't you understand that the lack of free healthcare is what's ruining everything?
>>71507804
Are you a college student? We get discounts on co-pays. Or if you're on a premier family account for over like... 5 years i think from the packet.
>>71507289
That's what freedom is all about. You can eat all the cheeseburgers you want smoking cigarettes while lighting off fireworks because you want to.
>>71507053
Yeah - you don't pay taxes in Canada.
If you did, you would think different. Doctors and nurses are way overpaid.
And the unions have more influence on politics than the actual voters. Its a fucking mess.
>>71507904
>useless education
what's the median salary for someone with a bachelors vs a high school diploma?
what's the unemployment rate for either?
Your argument is a joke.
>>71508037
Nope, I have it through work.
>>71507815
It's law for everyone to own insurance now. Our Healthcare costs rose drastically because we all have to support the homeless bums or the illegals even if we don't want to.
>>71508066
Ok so why can't he pay his medical emergency and why is he broke?
>>71507967
>It's a necessity from a rare occurrence, that is by definition elastic
that's just absolutely wrong. Healthcare is a textbook (like it's in all the textbooks) example of an inelastic good. People will pay because they have to. Fuck.
>the American Public, by consensus, would rather throw out the idea of national healthcare
Every time so far. We're nearing a tipping point now, though.
>Unless of course you wanna actually remove the idea of private sector and bring in the hospitals to be government operated
I honestly don't know enough about hospital operations to even respond to this
>>71508179
>still in college.
Are you not getting this?
>>71508133
>implying we weren't already doing that.
Healthcare costs rose nominally after the ACA rollout when compared with any of the previous years this decade
>>71506620
How was immunotherapy at Kaiser? Successful? Was it scary in anyway?
