Americans how do you explain this?
It's not true, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE
>>71277571
Capitalism
They charge for the care, the building and other things.
You can buy those things at walgreens or CVS and apply it yourself
>>71277571
Why do you think we were against Obamacare?
Hey, let's make people HAVE to have insurance. If everyone has insurance hospitals can charge however much they want. GENIUS!
>>71277804
Search your wallet, you know this to be true.
>>71277571
Nice source.
>>71277571
privatized class: Doctors.
>>71277571
Government pays for it
Three words: American Medical Association.
>>71277571
Jewish doctors.
>>71277571
Obamacare.
so what, those CRNAs arent cheap. you arent going to pay it, and neither is anyone else so who gives a shit? pay the allowed amount/fee schedule posted by your insurance and let them keep billing whatever they want. it's entertaining watching tramadol come up for $460 a pill
nurse here, sterile saline costs more than $1 to make
Supply and demand motherfucker. The free-market is an end in itself. What are you a commie?
>>71277571
If people are stupid enough to pay for something, let them.
I stay away from hospitals and I recommend the same for everyone.
Got free usa army medicine manuals from /pdfs/ on infinity chan and haven't been near a hospital since.
>>71277993
>They charge for the care, the building and other things.
These are billed seperately.
>>71277571
>
Taxes and mandates from the various levels of government, direct and indirect, make up the remainder.
>>71278363
Shut up
>>71278022
>Why do you think we were against Obamacare?
Because you're an idiot.
>Hey, let's make people HAVE to have insurance. If everyone has insurance hospitals can charge however much they want. GENIUS!
"Obamacare" put in incentives for preventive-measures. It created price controls. It has successfully stymied the rate of growth of the price of health care. Nope--has not brought it down. It dramatically reduced the rate at which it was increasing, though.
>>71278252
tjhis
>>71277571
>Be illegal Mexican
>Get stabbed in a bar fight
>Take Ambulance to hospital
>Take hour of dozens of staff and ER doc's time
>Take donor blood, painkillers and antibiotics
>Stay under intensive care for days
>Wake up an realize you have no money and nobody knows who you are
>Bounce on the bill
>>71278727
True.
>Wolfe
Another thing that is ridiculously priced is "sample crates", they are glorified egg cartons made of metal, they cost the hospital $10,000 each. But they only cost 1$ to make.
>>71277571
$800 pays for all the people who couldn't pay their bill. The cost gets passed on to other patients. It doesn't just disappear
>>71278357
I could make it right now for 25 cents
>>71277571
It's a bargain. You life is probably worth more than $800.
>>71277804
hmm
>>71278777
>literal trips of truth
>>71278727
Used to apply to all sorts of Americans that didn't have insurance. Obama at least did to try to stop that.
>>71279012
how you gonna sterilize it and the inside of the bag then?
How likely is a hospital to forgive a a 10K bill? Even on a payment plan this is going to take years to repay, and exceeds my income for all of last year.
>>71278904
This. Hospitals are businesses and need to remain solvent.
>>71279041
There's no excuse for this I can't believe people on /pol/ unironically defend this
>>71278409
Share sauce?
>>71277571
Even if that pic is true (it's likely not), the inflated price of hospital services is not in spite of using insurance, it's BECAUSE people use insurance.
Find out what the cash price is you plebs.
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/many-hospitals-doctors-offer-cash-discount-for-medical-costs/
>LOS ANGELES — A Long Beach hospital charged Jo Ann Snyder $6,707 for a CT scan of her abdomen and pelvis after colon surgery. Because she had health insurance with Blue Shield of California, her share was much less: $2,336.
>Snyder then tripped across one of the little-known secrets of health care: If she hadn’t used her insurance, her bill would have been even lower, $1,054.
>“I couldn’t believe it,” said Snyder, 57. “I was really upset that I got charged so much and Blue Shield allowed that. You expect them to work harder for you and negotiate a better deal.”
>Unknown to most consumers, many hospitals and physicians offer steep discounts for cash-paying patients regardless of income. But there’s a catch: You typically get the lowest price only if you don’t use your health insurance.
>The difference can be stunning. Los Alamitos Medical Center, for instance, lists a CT scan of the abdomen on a state website for $4,423. Blue Shield says its negotiated rate at the hospital is about $2,400.
>When the Los Angeles Times called for a cash price, the hospital said it was $250.
>>71278904
So 799 people who can't pay show up for every one who does? 'k
>>71279106
I just take an old walmart bag, fill it with water and salt, put an incision in my arm with a pocket knife, then insert a straw, and pour the salt water from the walmart bag into the straw. It's literally the same thing.
>>71278476
you stupid fucking nigger shill faggot kike, prices for healthcare have tripled.
>>create monopoly
>>prevent competition
>>require "insurance" which is by definition a form of gambling, not guarantee to a payout. requiring insurers to cover pre existing conditions is sheer insanity. why would they? why should they?
congratulations, now IM footing the fucking cost for your 4 liter of soda a day habit.
go die from aids. healthcare was cheap as shit until the government and AMA got involved.
>>71278409
>Got free usa army medicine manuals from /pdfs/ on infinity chan and haven't been near a hospital since
I found someting similar for dentistry. Finally I'm out from under the boot of Big Dental.
>>71279041
got an eob?
>>71279216
You think every patient gets one bag of saline for every conceivable circumstance that occurs in a hospital? K
>>71279166
Yeah that's bullshit.
The cash price is HIGHER. Many times higher, in most cases. The insurance companies INSIST this be so.
>>71279166
>When the Los Angeles Times called for a cash price, the hospital said it was $250.
holy fucking shit. I just got billed 2K for a ct after insuance paid out 1.5k
>>71277571
$% says they are made in a foreign nation and imported to America then marked up by the Foreign company that sells them, then the foreign company that owns the corporation that runs the hospital.
>>71279041
I'm sure Jesus is very proud of them.
>>71279564
We're keeping the assumption of some hundreds of non-payers to payers ratio?
'k
>>71279609
Back bfore I had insurance I never once saw a cash price that was higher than the insurance negotiated charge.
How can an insurance company know anything about what a patient paid if they weren't processed through an insurance company?
>>71279121
You made less than $10k all of last year?
That's literally less than minimum wage
>>71279840
Light, salaries, food, building costs, lawsuits. K
>>71277571
Insurence price-sharing bullshit.
>>71279041
>$68,000,00 for "minor procedure"
Fuck, and we think we got it bad here in monkeyland.
>>71280192
Yep. I had some health issues and could only temp, in addition to the god fucking awful job market. No jobs+bad health= no money. I live with my fucking parents.
>>71279121
forgive? who knows. tell them you will be willing to pay the medicaid fee schedule rate for their services. depending on the state, you're looking to be out a few hundred bucks depending on services rendered
>>71277571
No cunt has made their own hospital and payed for all of the staff.
or:
> Saline manufacturing company
> Distribution company
> Office services
Your an idiot if you think $1 covers it
> FUCK I HATE HOW DUMB YOU PEOPLE ARE.
> FUCKING LEARN HOW SHIT WORKS!
>>71278476
>It dramatically reduced the rate at which it was increasing, though.
It actually increased because of Obamacare but nice try.
>>71278409
>>71279164
Seconding this. Were they in /pdf or something?
>>71280505
>tell them you will be willing to pay the medicaid fee schedule rate for their services
this actually seems like an idea worth trying. It's way better than calling the billing dept and sobbing uncontrollably, which was my plan. ty anon
>>71277571
A huge chunk of patients will never pay their bills, so they rely on massively overcharging those patients who are insured to make up the difference
>>71279041
>>71277571
>own insurance
>it pays for it
>you pay only a few thousand at most.
>>71281067
not jus tthat, but the price billed is accounting for costs in every stage of production and delivery. I pay 1.50 for a bag of skittles at the gas station that likely cost a nickle to produce.
>>71280616
If I can buy a fucking burger sourced from components made from over 8 different supplies for 2 dollars at McDonalds, then the fuck does a salt water bag cost 800?
>>71278339
You don't need a CRNA to administer intravenous saline. A lower-paid phlebotomist can do it just fine.
>>71279166
>no insurance means less payout
The opposite is true in many cases. An educated individual can have a skin carcinoma excised for a few hundred dollars, but they have to specifically request the procedure since insurance will want you to take the three thousand dollar procedure because it's 7% more effective (because lawyers).
However, your typical ignorant American just wants their unhealthy ass turned around at whatever cost, and if that fatass is neither insured nor on Medicare, they're in for a staggering bill as the hospital is going to do whatever it feels is necessary to cover their ass on the legal front. That's when the lack of an insurer who will contest expenses will be a real financial burden - unless you're some immigrant or ultrapoor who will never be able to pay and just make the system charge everyone else more.
pretty sure I heard Ron Paul saying how health care has become ridiculously expensive due to insurance/regulations/bureaucrats
liberal's wet dream is to double down
they also charge you hundreds of dollars for blood that was donated
Because faggot the people making sure you don't die from AIDS spend 6 figures and 4 years of their pathetic life's learning the art of the Jew
>>71279322
:))))))
>>71279609
2 months ago I thought I had testicular torsion and went to a ready clinic(ER that isn't at the hospital and is quicker) for a MRI it was 1500, the radiologist checked for cancer for 150, and my actual doctors bill was 1300ish but my cash price was 637 something.
>>71281325
yeah but they have to screen it for diseases, filter it for whatever you actually need as rarelyu anyone gets whole blood, they have to check th epatients blood to make sure its a match etc etc, people doing all of the above costs. and i work in a hospital, saline is definitely not 800 dollars, is it worth way more that its actual value? yes, but not 800 dollars. what usually costs the most in a hospital is the room stay youre on, then dr fees, then labs/xrays etc and lastly drugs.
>>71281323
As he's both a politician and a doctor, it'd be interesting to see some quotes on that subject.
From what I've read it's a trifecta of laywers, doctors, and pharmaceuticals that's riding an ever-rising wave of demand and an ever-rising wave of new technology and discoveries.
>>71277571
.50 cents of every dollar spent on healthcare in the United States is spent by the government.
Not much of a "privatised" healthcare system if you ask me.
>>71281325
it doesn't go straight from the blood mobile into someone's IV, anon.
>>71281073
Should you even be paying "a few thousand" dollars for a minor procedure?
>>71281763
>>71281990
they do minor work and charge you hundreds of dollars for blood they got for free. only a cuck would not be upset.
Did you know that Apple charges over €1,000 for an Apple watch.
Manufacturing price? €80.
>>71282121
Get a better plan then.
>>71277571
Its called "indigent care."
Insurance companies are billed inflated rates to pay for (offset the cost of) the free healthcare provided in emergency rooms and bad accounts as a result of no-pays.
Not saying its a good system, but now you know.
>>71281949
People know how to milk the system. Disability will pay for people's mobility needs. Fatasses learn that they can claim disability for being too fat. Companies then learn the government will pay them to sell those electric motor-carts to the disabled. Hence, America's increasingly ubiquitous fatasses on motor carts, all courtesy of the taxpayers.
>>71281073
>only a few thousand
HAHAHHA
How about paying NOTHING?
>hurr durr freedom ain't free, you pay huge taxes
And yet, it still works out cheaper.
>>71282329
No, doctors don't get paid anywhere near that much for performing minor procedures.
Even if I had no insurance, I shouldn't be paying that much.
Hospital's share of the cut is way too big.
>>71281073
>few thousand
It's against federal law to not purchase health insurance. Only law-breaking criminals get massive healthcare bills.
>>71282178
nigger im a nurse, i get paid $30+ hr
i dont give a shit if the blood was free, my work isnt.
>>71282178
>minor work
>MINOR WORK
there's so much work involved that you'd be surprised
we have to do national (and in some cases international) checks on the criminal/medical past of the donor
we have to make sure to screen for any abnormalities that could result in issues later on
we have to obviously get the right blood type, but a lot of people don't actually like to donate so we have shortages
we have to keep the blood on ice for a period of time that heavily depends on the area and the activity of hospitals, at most we can keep it for 6 weeks, platelets for a week
we then have to wait for a hospital to demand blood. depending on the exact hospital either they've run out of supplies (non urgent) or they need a specific blood type NOW (someone is going to die if they don't get it)
so, we have to get the blood to where it's needed, then we have to hope to god that the person receiving it isn't going to have problems from undiagnosed medical issues
it's practically a miracle we have blood transfusions in the first place, to say it's "minor work" and you got it for "free" is retarded.
>>71279411
Oh my god I fucking died laughing reading this.
Nice doubles by the way.
>>71278357
>nurse here
>expert in manufacturing processes
>sterile saline costs more than $1 to make
shut the fuck up nurse
>>71282809
oh also btw, some places don't actually do detailed STI checks, so if you're donating and you have AIDs you are one of the most degenerate cunts on the planet.
>>71277571
With niggers and illegals not paying their tabs. The cost gets hoisted on normal citizens who actually understand that hospitals cannot work for free.
Thankfully there's ways to get the hospitals to cut the bills back down to normal levels.
>>71279041
>minor procedure_$67, 950.00
>Anesthesia services_$1, 343.40
>>71277571
>explain this
/pol/ attracts a lot of shitty OPs because it's easy to post.
The more you know...
>>71282809
it's actually very cheap and easy to do all those things you mentioned. and there is almost never a shortage of blood. if you hear there is a shortage, they are lying to get more free blood. it is a fucking racket.
>>71282486
There's a reason why co-pays and deductibles exist on every form of insurance
>>71282488
The doctor is not the only one/thing getting paid.
>>71282521
Congrats, you have a shit insurance plan and got screwed because of it. Maybe next time you should read what you agree to rather than picking the one with the lowest monthly fees.
>>71282521
Whenever I get bills from hospitals, I send them back a letter telling them to go fuck themselves. I pay thousands of dollars per year in insurance. If the hospital wants their money, they can pressure my insurance company.
Sometimes I'll get follow-up letters from debt collection agencies. To these, I send a reply saying "Go fuck yourself" and then remind them of my rights and their obligations under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. I then tell them that "I would like nothing better for you to sue me, because I swear on my life that I'll fight such a suit with ever fiber of my being."
After that, the letters stop, and I don't pay a dime.
>>71281073
>>you pay only a few thousand at most.
>doctors and facilities bill huge prices
>insurance companies only reimburse so much
>remember that form you filled out
>you're now on the hook to pay the difference
B-but muh insurance!!!
It's a scam.
Modern medicine is full of pretentious, under educated, egotistical, over paid fuck faces.
>>71277571
Blame legal culpability. Americans sue for malpractice at the slightest mistake they THINK occured.
>>71283139
m8 i dunno how the US blood system works, but I work for a medical evacuation company here in australia, i fly the planes
we have almost constant shortages, most of the blood goes to major cities
there's a few times each month where we load a bunch of blood onto the aircraft with the intention of doing an in-air transfusion at the same time as any other procedures (damn risky)
>>71282983
>Thankfully there's ways to get the hospitals to cut the bills back down to normal levels.
bullshit
I was an R&D engineer in the medical device industry for 7 years.
A product that we sold for $12/pc with a $2 profit margin would be sold to hospitals for $2000+. All the 1st tier mfgs did was finish assembly, sterilize, package.
No joke. And our customers haggled over pennies. People got pinkslip'd because of pennies on a million-part order.
The insurance/hospital game is cat and mouse. Hospitals don't get the funding so they inflate prices to insurance companies to make up for it
>>71277571
"Competition is a sin."
-John D. Rockefeller
>>71277571
>people need IV
>they each pay a dollar for it
couple years later
>people need IV, but some are poor and can't pay for it
>the people who aren't poor are made to pay more so that the poor people can get free IV since it's an emergency
couple years later
>people need IV, but the price has gone up to the point that even less people can afford it
>the people that can afford it are charged even more so everyone else can get it
rinse and repeat for a few more years and here we are
>>71277571
Alright fucker, why don't you do it yourself then? Oh wait, that doctor went to school for 20 fucking years. Those nurses have master degrees. All the shit around you costs a lot of money! WOW HEALTHCARE IS A HIGHLY SPECIALIZED INDUSTRY AND YOU DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE A RIGHT TO IT UNLESS YOU ARE WILLING DO WORK FOR IT.
urine drug test cup
>$2 a cup buying by the gross
>patient does it for free
>peel label and read cup
>doctor bills $100
i FUCKING hate doctors
Meh, haven't had a problem yet.
Had my wisdom teeth pulled. Bill was going to be $3000 but insurance took care of $2700. Got prescribed a bunch of painkillers and an antibiotic and it only cost me $14.
The way I see it this is just an ongoing battle between doctors and insurers trying to constantly one-up each other for a profit. As long as my premium doesn't increase beyond inflation, I'm not complaining.
>>71283861
Odds are that the premiums are going to rise substantially next year. ACA enrollment just isn't covering the costs, apparently.
>>71279166
>6700 burgers for a abdominal and pelvic CT scan
Come to Brazil. For 6700 burgers you get the plane tickets, high quality CT scan and can take a walk through the beach
>>71283578
good goyim
continue defending the medical jew
>>71283403
are cadillac plans carrying the health care industry then? WHo wins when one party blinks in this scenario?
I work for a large health insurance company. We lost about $200m last year on Obamacare plans. If anyone has questions, feel free to ask.
What was the last relevant medical breakthrough from a country with universal healthcare?
>>71285019
can you address my post here pls?>>71284369
>>71284369
It's a tricky situation since the major insurers don't want to piss off the government or the American people, so we're giving Obamacare the old college try and are willing to accept losses for the first few years. But in the long term, yes -- we're not in the business of losing money, so premiums are going up.
Also just FYI, we make about 3% profit on claims paid. There are Medical Loss Ratio rules that state that we must pay out 85% on every dollar taken in as premium, and the rest is spent SG&A (administration, paying employees, keeping the lights on, etc.)
>>71277571
they like money
and no one stops them
thats all there is to it
>>71277571
>not paying the iron prive
>>71283169
lif hax
>>71277571
>neglecting the cost of shipping
>neglecting the cost of sterilization
>neglecting the cost of labor
>neglecting the cost of knowing how to correctly insert a needle
>>71283169
RIP your credit score
>>71282863
You do know how much you have to sink and get the slightest things right, else get the FDA so far up your ass that you'll be shutdown, right?
>>71281073
>a few thousand
And thats the main reason i dont want to live in Burgerland. Your health care is a fucking joke.
>>71285793
> 800 dollars
>>71280057
The insurance companies and the hospitals negotiate. Since the insurance companies bring in tons of business (and can take it elsewhere) the companies have typically negotiated clauses that actually require the Hospital to set their prices a significant percentage underneath the cash price.
Recently the trend seems to have turned against it, and in fact some hospitals will give you a significant discount for cash, but it could go either way depending on where you are.
>>71283076
Anesthetics do have the lowest therapeutic window of any drug. A well trained anesthetist is the difference between staying knocked out during a procedure, and slipping into a coma or death in an instant.
>>71277993
Nope. those are billed seperately and are more expensive
>>71285455
Thank you. I was unaware of the MLR rules. Interesting stuff.
>>71277571
so I can just consult the free market and buy my own salt water bags yes?
>>71286293
I don't think I want to know how much fucking paperwork is behind the process invovled in arrivign at those prices.
>waaah why are businesses trying to make money?!
Spot the socialists/commies in this thread.
>>71277993
It's an itemized bill, though.
And yeah it's ridiculous, but we're subsidizing the illegals and all the other people who go to the hospital and then don't pay their bill.
They're also used to billing big corporations like insurance companies. They'll try to milk them for as much as they can, charge them $800 for a saline drip, insurance company comes back and says fuck no we're only paying $200, then they end up agreeing on $400 or so shit.
It's a fucked up system, no doubt.
Urgent care centers are far more affordable for non life threatening emergencies.
>>71277571
they charge that so the insurance companies will pay the full benefit amount. health insurance is a racket and overbilling is the only to make them pay up.
>>71279322
All right, let's break down this retardation
>I just take an old walmart bag,
infection risk
>fill it with water and salt,
and get a hyper/hypotonic solution. Even if everything works perfectly you'll end up with fluid deficit or excess
>put an incision in my arm with a pocket knife,
now you're bleeding out and will probably get infected
>then insert a straw,
bleeding out more, another dirty thing to get infected with-directly into the bloodstream no less. I hope you enjoy ventilators, because that's where you're headed if the blood loss doesn't get you first
>and pour the salt water from the walmart bag into the straw.
And how are you going to control the rate, idiot?
>It's literally the same thing.
It's really not.
>>71286293
not an eob
>>71283076
that anesthesia bill is almost sane. It is probably almost going directly into the pocket of the Dr's LLC and its/his insurance company.
And yeah, it probably took about 1hr out of his day. Still almost reasonable.
>>71279322
You're like that ghetto girl in school who joked about using a supermarket bag as a condom.
>>71277571
SUPPLY AND DEMAND. That's pretty fucked though.
>>71277883
Wrong answer Netherlands.
The correct answer is: crony capitalism.
The health care industry has managed to buy off Congress thereby avoiding prosecution under some laws while passing others to discourage competition.
If we would just prosecute a few hospitals under the same consumer protection, price fixing, and anti fraud laws that govern car repair that price would drop from $800 down to about $5. (Which is still 5x manufacturer cost, but not out of line for a low cost item that must be kept on hand.)
Karl Denninger screams about this all the time on The Market Ticker. He cites specific examples and specific laws, if only there was a DA with the balls to prosecute.
>>71277571
Lack of a free market, the engine which makes capitalism work efficiently and effectively. That and this is just shifting cost from nonpaying customers to paying customers, but mainly due to government interference.
>Yes goy universal healthcare is bad, think of the taxes! Pay for your hospital bills yourself, how else will Dr. Shekelstein be able to afford his vacation home. We also have insurance packages if you want to get covered, just for a low low monthly payment...
>>71277571
I've greatly benefited from the healthcare system here in Canada, so I would suggest the same thing for America, but I support Trump. How will getting rid of state lines truly help the average American in dealing with health misfortunes? I understand the power of free-market but how cheap will it be?
>>71286898
To also add, the medical industry is the most regulated and controlled industry out there. It is crazy how uncapitalistic it really is! And people wonder why things keep getting worse when they demand the government to intervene.
>>71278409
I would like to see these for medicine and dentistry.
>>71277804
Search your feels, Luke
>>71279166
With few and narrow exceptions, it is considered fraud if a business charges different prices for like services/goods based on customer or method of payment. That's why you don't pay a different price for using a credit card even though the store pays CC fees.
So why aren't hospitals prosecuted under the same laws when they do this shit?
>>71277571
>impling they don't have other costs to cover
>>71287010
It won't be cheap, but it'd encourage additional competition. There are government departments of insurance (DOI) in every state that regulate how much insurance can charge for plans and if the plan meets the minimum requirements, etc.
>>71283739
Hate the government that makes it necessary. If given a 15 minute training any of us could run drug screens and not need years of training.
![b151bca3d5396753a022b8b3f88ad130e260ff67[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/PFQyRbt.jpg "b151bca3d5396753a022b8b3f88ad130e260ff67[1].jpg")
>>71277571
As a medical biller, you don't know what are you talking about. You can charge whatever you want, but depending on how you are contracted with a payer (Par vs. non-Par), there is a certain allowable for each CPT code.
If I bill a standard office visit (99212 or some shit) at $10,000, Aetna's allowable may only be $100.
So contractual adjustments: $9,900 (adjusted off)
Allowable: $100
Lets say the patient has a $15 copay, this is immediately dropped to the patient as PR.
$85 left over, Aetna pays $60, the remaining amount will be your deductible that the patient hasn't meet.
In total:
$10,000 billed by the medical practice
$9,900 written off
Aetna pays $60
Patient pays $40.
Don't even get me started on Medicaid DME billing, Tertiaries, or OB visits. Cause I can talk circles around you, you dumb shit.
>>71287196
>implying we're not getting scammed by the hospitals and insurance companies
It takes quite a cuck to be ok with how over-charged we are by the health care industry.
>>71287155
This is obsolete information. Now stores can pass the CC fees onto consumers that use cards. (good as far as I am concerned - no sense the poor cash customer subsidizing those that use CCs)
I often see cash vs CC price at gas stations.
>>71283205
This.
>>71287155
>That's why you don't pay a different price for using a credit card even though the store pays CC fees.
There may be laws prohibiting this as well, I don't know, but I was always under the impression this was a restriction that credit card processors put on merchants. They don't want businesses discouraging people from using credit cards by adding a transaction fee.
>>71277571
I've been yelling about this shit for years. Blog inc.
>Be me
>Have 2 ingrown toenails, on both big toes, on both sides of them.
>Horrid pain
>Don't insurance (This was more than a decade ago btw)
>Call foot doctor, have some cash.
>How much?
>$800...
>per toe
>Freakout, start yelling about 1600$
>Woman asks
>"Do you insurance?"
>NOPE!
>"Oh, then $135 per toe.
My toes are fine now.
>>71287073
Zactly, "hey, muh medicine is too expensive, add another layer of government bureaucracy, that'll make it cheaper." Lib fuckers bitch about medical costs and do everything possible to make it more expensive. And republicans haven't done anything to help either.
>>71287353
If you're able to write that much off as a loss, do you ever pay any taxes?
>>71287664
Hospitals are generally non-profit orgs anyway aren't they?
>>71287353
Medical coder faggot doing women's work. Eat another dick, cock smoker.
>>71283578
I wonder... who could be behind this?
>>71287773
Absolutely not.
>>71287773
Ha ha ha
HA HA HA
.
.
.
.
.
No
>>71281073
>you pay only a few thousand at most.
KEK
This is what Americans actually believe
![CMS-1500%20claim%20form[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/rL1c8BL.png "CMS-1500%20claim%20form[1].png")
>>71287474
>Billed amount =! Allowed amount
Practices will often bill high on their Fee Schedules if they don't take the damn time to figure out what their allowable are with every one of their contracts.
$135 was probably as much as they were going to get from an insurance company, assuming they could find one to even pay for that procedure. Most insurance company treat toe problems as a joke and don't bother paying them. Kinda like psych patients.
>>71287664
Nope. Taxes are done on the income. I could bill out $10 million in a year and only get paid $100,000 of it. I'm paying taxes on the $100,000
>>71287787
>Medical coder faggot doing women's work
Coding =! Billing
Get it together bud. Unless you are covered by the malpractice insurance, you aren't going any coding.
>>71287773
Not true. Trinity, Ascension, Florida Woman Care, St Johns, Mayo Clinic, should I stop... ?
>>71288026
>>71288172
You made me look it up
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-profit_hospital
>In 2003, of the roughly 3,900 nonfederal, short-term, acute care general hospitals in the United States, the majority—about 62 percent—were nonprofit. The rest included government hospitals (20 percent) and for-profit hospitals (18 percent).[1] In exchange for tax-exemptions, estimated to total $12.6 billion in 2002, nonprofit hospitals are expected to provide community benefits.[2]
>>71288361
>Nope. Taxes are done on the income. I could bill out $10 million in a year and only get paid $100,000 of it. I'm paying taxes on the $100,000
Then what is the incentive of billing for $10m when you know you're not going to get that much? Are you hoping you dummies with a lot of money to pay full price?
>did you know?
The healthcare industry is heavily regulated by the government, stop blaming capitalism for all your problems bud
>>71277571
I explain it by saying its not true.
>>71286129
>RIP your credit score
Oh no, the friendly neighborhood jew won't lend me any shekels
>>71288366
Just because they're non-profit, doesn't mean they don't find ways to still charge you out the ass and keep the money for themselves since they don't have share holders.
My local hospital got bought out by a non-profit group, costs and services have gone up 5 fold since then. For 2 chest X-rays, they charged $700 just to look if I had anything in my lungs. Thank god I have insurance.
>>71279145
>An institution that cares for the sick and the ill is now a money making business, just let that sink in.
>American's are ok with not only people making money from hospitals but are actually AGAINST, I'll say that again, AGAINST socialized medicine where doctors still get paid, but you cut out the middle men.
And /pol/ is for driverless cars.
Can't have it both ways /pol/.
I would like to reply that every single hospital visit I have had has been free. I pay a light tax on wages and 15% tax on Good and Services. A visit to my GP only costs $17 per visit and I can get consulted on the day I ring in. I have nearly lost a foot that required 13 operations to save, I have been to hospital over 35 times in my 23 years of life 3 have been life threatening. What the fuck America?
>>71278476
obamacare is extremely shitty though, I work as a research assistant for a small [under 30 employee] private adolescent mental health care and tutoring company and I was surprised at how terrible it was
>ACA killed as much as 1/3 of the smaller regional health insurance providers because poor people don't buy things unless they really REALLY need them, thus were crushed under the weight of sick people and not the young and healthy people they had originally planned on jewing out of 2700 dollary doos on average a year
>despite price controls the vast VAST majority of plans are still as expensive as plans were before and outside the ACA
>due to the aforementioned crush of sick people many plans don't even offer copays or coinsurance before the premium, you would literally be better off not buying into the ACA, taking the penalty at tax time, and still going to your doctor regularly and buying your drugs full price because it would be cheaper than buying ACA insurance
>penalties apply to people who are clearly below the poverty line and because of disability or other extenuating circumstances cannot get themselves onto medicaid
so much greed and stupidity went into the ACA it hurts to even consider it "affordable" and it certainly doesn't provide adequate care for a goddamn thing unless and after you break every bone in your body and require a goddamn heart transplant.
![UB04[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ZRkEwTt.jpg "UB04[1].jpg")
>>71288550
>Are you hoping you dummies with a lot of money to pay full price?
Different payers have different allowables for each code. If I bill out $100 for an annual office visit:
Aetna pays $88 per visit
BCBS pays $95 per visit
Cigna pays $105 per visit
Medicare pays $40 per visit
UHC pays $115 per visit
You see? I'd be missing out on $5 from each Cigna claim, and $15 from each UHC (United Healthcare) claim. Money added up when you bill 10,000+ claims in a year.
> Are you hoping you dummies with a lot of money to pay full price?
Some patients will. Generally speaking, the average practice will go easy and be compassionate for the patient. They generally want to help out the patient and make the insurance companies pay as much as possible.
Some practices don't give a fuck and will bill the (self-pay) patient $200 for the office visit knowing full well that most insurance companies wouldn't pay more than $100 for that same visit.
>>71288566
With the exception of some CMS guidelines and MU now (Meaningful Use; #thanksobama), the government really don't have control that the public thinks it does. They control Medicare and Medicaid, and every other little insurance under it. That's pretty much it...
>>71289242
Oh ok, the original numbers you mentioned were a bit more extreme than the example you laid out in this post so I was confused. btw, I work for Aetna.
>>71286505
>And yeah it's ridiculous, but we're subsidizing the illegals
>this is what Trump fans actually believe
>>71281237
It's the cost of ensuring that it's sterile.
>>71283144
Oddly, the ones who seem to be able to pay the least for their medical expenses are the ones most able to afford it.
Class War/Day of the Rope when?
>>71289242
There are also some pretty damning guidelines, yes? Things like hospitals having to pay for all care in the event of sentinel events (ie falls), picking up some cost for readmissions within a month, etc.
>>71289207
It was a law made by dems and giant health insurance companies. What did people think would happen? Oh wait, people actually believed this government created ponzi scheme would work
>>71289405
If you work for Aetna, mind explaining why after I called you guys to make sure the tests for a mental health evaluation I was going to receive was insured, (even giving the codes for the tests) I got a bill for over $7000?
>>71279732
kek
>>71289797
Sorry, but I have no real insight there as I work in IT and typically stay clear of the actual business. However, I suggest taking the matter to social media (twitter, especially), as the company is hyper-sensitive how they look there. So tweet at the aetna account, or aetna-help account or whatever, and demand some answers. That should help you.
>>71289975
Well on the form for why they refuse to pay for it, they say 'testing for learning disabilities is not covered' (It was a general aptitude and emotional evaluation) Even though I made sure the tests were cleared. So were they cleared, but then Aetna found a bullshit excuse to not pay for them because of why I got the testing?
I'm already contesting the bill, just thought I could get some more insight as to why. Thanks though. Guess I'll have to make a twitter account
>>71290251
Truth be told, we use policies based on an approved board of medical professionals and don't just make stuff up on a whim. There is probably a valid reason the claim was denied (in the company's mind, anyways), however -- yes, that's the best way to make some waves if you're not happy. Go on twitter.
>>71289193
>I would like to reply that every single hospital visit I have had has been free
Indeed, but why aren't the kings of Saudi Arabia flying half way around the world to your country rather than ours? Oh wait... Because:
>Massachusetts General Hospital
>Mayo Clinic
>New York-Presbyterian
>Johns Hopkins
>UCLA Medical Center
>Duke University
>Stanford Health
Why bother working hard and going above and beyond if you aren't going to be paid anymore? This is what socialized healthcare will do to your country. There is no point in socializing it. Let it be a free market. If you want to pay top dollar to get the best work, you can. If you don't have a lot, you can still go to a shittier doctor. Socialism only give you the latter option.
>>71289405
>I work for Aetna
You guys are alright. Out of the many insurance companies I deal with, you guys are in my top three.
>>71289797
>mental health evaluation
*Psst* ...Cause it's not a real science. 20 year ago, Homosexuality was a metal illness. Now because it's not. Mental Health is like alchemy, or womens studies, or yoga. Lol, you can't expect someone to take that seriously and pay for "muh feelings",
But to answer your question a little more seriously: The provider may not have been contracted (Participating; In-Network) with that payer. Because of this, the insurance company says "lol we aren't paying for this shit" and writes everything off globally. The practice doesn't get paid, so they drop the entire charge to the patient.
(this is a billing violation unless the EOB specifically states it's ok to charge the patient this bill)
Practices sometimes do shady shit like this to dumb patients. See >>71289242
I need to sleep. Got billing to to in the morning. Just remember that people on both sides of the coin generally don't know what they are talking about because CMS made it so damn confusing.
>hurr guys, I'm going to make NPIs a thing, but we aren't going to follow our own rules and keep using Legacy Numbers
>>71290615
I have a friend who worked as a tech in one of the big hospitals on the renal transplant floor. He said the amount of patients who flew in from foreign countries not speaking english was disgusting
>>71289670
they did this shit in a goddamn halfstep too small to make work, what they could have done was offered some providers tax credits to offer medicaid managed plans, apply the 2% income penalty into a tax increase to anybody who doesn't opt out of medicaid. then the insurance companies have an incentive to lure people away from MM healthcare with reasonable rates and incentives to offer better coverage at those rates to compete against MM plans.
the other side of that is an all out ban on healthcare providers full stop. hospitals won't charge $800 for a saline drip if no patient who walked though their doors could afford it. $350 - $700 for an emergency room visit? probably fucking not, people would start finding uncles and cousins who know how to stitch up cuts and set broken legs and arms at those ludicrous prices. people would die, hospitals would shut down. but the hospitals left would find it in their best interests to actually price the services according to their market value, people would then finally come back to hospitals
>>71290615
>You guys are alright. Out of the many insurance companies I deal with, you guys are in my top three.
I'm glad to hear that.
To give some background, we were losing about $1m/day back in ~2000 when we brought in a former head of a hospital system as our CEO. The company was attempting to transform itself into being more provider friendly company as that was huge issue. Based on current numbers it appears that we're doing "OK".
I understand that we'll always be butting heads, but it's good to hear we're not the worst.
>>71283391
Have you tried literally just telling them "I can't pay that much"?
>>71279041
>>71281073
>>71282521
>>71283144
>both procedures in 2013
>would be covered by insurance under Obamacare
I've pointed this out before, no one else has brought it up
>>71277571
MUH CAPITALISM! GREED IS GOOD! THE RICH NEED MORE MONEY FOR DEM PROGRAMS!!
>>71277571
Meanwhile in countries with "free" universal healthcare how much would saline solution cost and how much do they in taxes in their life time? Even worse if they don't need to go to the doctor.
>>71292326
it's only an extra 20% bro
>>71292326
How long do they need to wait for that saline?
>>71277571
ugh, getting one of those for dehydration was the biggest scam of my life
>>71277571
america is like those "in a libertarian world..." troll images, but real
>>71277571
Because you are in a hospital, and you need saline solution, and you can't really shop around. They know it, and this is their price. If you don't like it, go to another hospital.
The issue is insurance companies that pay 10% of the bill, so everything is overpriced, and the hospitals overcharge for everything, and then fight over the bills.
>>71277571
You also pay for the "dine-and-dash" patients, mostly spics that don't wanna get deported and niggers that don't wanna pay.
>>71292326
In my life I always went out to get private healthcare, the nhs is useless to me. It is just a drain of my money, and I am not even rich.
>>71277571
I can believe this.
It's the only way of explaining how America spends twice what Europe spend on healthcare per capita, yet we don't have universal coverage and for people that do have coverage their insurance does not cover many things.
Someone explain this pls, did the medical jew lobby Congress this way so they can charge ridiculous prices, fill their pockets and then stick it to the government and the patient?
>inb4 Obamacare
Not really an answer, it was like this even before Obamacare.
I just want someone to explain the laws that make our health costs expensive as fuck.
>>71277571
Because the government pays whatever price they are given by the medical industry.
>>71282238
Yes, that's true, but you're comparing apples and oranges.
You don't have to buy an Apple watch if you want a smart watch, you have dozens if not hundreds of options to choose from if you want a cheaper smart watch.
But if you want medical care anywhere in the US, you're going to be ripped off no matter what. There is no cheaper alternative.
>>71277571
for profit insurance.
>>71280192
You don't get 40+ hours a week worth of work just because you have a minimum wage job.
>>71283076
Anesthesia is the only justified price in there.
>>71279041
Tricare Nigger I don't pay for shit.
Ever
Suck my dick.
>>71277804
it cost me like $200 for some black bitch to stick a microscope in my ear and confirm I had an ear infection
literally 5 seconds of the doctors time and 2 hours waiting/paperwork
>>71277993
No you can't. IV bags are prescription only
>>71277571
Say again cunt nugget?
http://www.mountainside-medical.com/products/iv-solutions-for-injection?src=b&gclid=Cj0KEQjw6My4BRD4ssKGvYvB-YsBEiQAJYd77Q8AA0Df2naXZ6DSsr2B_F3AmobIJ42ZogrwTjN75kwaAubL8P8HAQ&variant=6775958212
>>71277571
>Americans how do you explain this?
By refusing to pay medical bills.
>>71297842
The joys of American Medicine. I went in to a clinic, told the Nurse Practitioner I had an ear infection that perforated my eardrum and I needed 20 500m amoxicillin. She asked a bunch of diagnostic questions, a few had nothing to do with having an ear infection. She then scopped my ear and said "Looks like you had an ear infection and it perforated your ear drum. I'm going to prescribe some antibiotics and it should be fine in a week or two."
I paid $92 bucks plus $8 for the 20 500mg amoxicillin for that.
Now I have a supply of "fish" antibiotics of several types just to avoid that BS. $20 per 100 vs $100 for 20 and an hour of my life gone.
>>71277571
Packaging fee
>>71284386
I remember this old myth/story of how expensive american healthcare is.
Say you need a surgery with that money you could take 1st class plane ticket to Spain, go to private hospital, get it treated, live in Spain for a year, get mangled by bulls in Pamplona bull run, get treated again in private hospital and buy 1st class plane ticket back to USA and it still would be cheaper.
No idea if it holds water and is it just made up.
>>71277571
>price to hospital
$1
>labor costs of staffers to hook shit up and do other crap for you
$5
>price for the doctor to come look at you and say shit everyone else already knows
$15
>price to make up for the 20 shitskins that came in for stupid shit and skipped out without paying their medical bills
$779
seriously the problem is that hospitals are required to provide care regardless of whether or not you can pay
the only way they can afford to function is by overcharging for stupid shit
>>71301418
probably true
most major surgery costs as much as a new car
any sort of long term problems like cancer etc. will cost more than a middle class house
>>71286817
you've broken free of the jewish mind control.
well done lad.
>>71281825
I think it was this video..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XpHfFWja9U
Seems to me the more government gets involved with anything, the worse & more expensive it gets.. I remember him saying back in the day it was cheap & churches would help people pay for their care.. Now it drives people into bankruptcy..
Gonna look for some more wisdom
>>71277571
You go buy an bag, and learn what you need to know to know when to use it, and how to use it, and do it yourself then.
You aren't just paying for the bag.
>>71280192
companies will hire you for like 20 hours a week to save money in the long run
>>71301418
100% bullshit unless Spain is so fucked that $20k can not only allow you to live there a whole year but get your high-risk evasive 1st world surgery as well as treat multiple gash wounds from a bull.
You people have to remember that American surgeons are the best in th world and some important surgeries can only be preformed here because we have equipment nobody else has all in one place. There's a reason Europeans do their best to come here for surgery/treatment as well as Canadians doing it even more frequently than them.
America Hospitals costing astronomical amounts is a meme perpetuated by commies, hippies, and millenials that just want free healthcare. Are there places with disgustingly high pricing? Fuck yes, but they are either the best hospitals on earth or you're in a northern shithole of a city that has so many niggers and spics wrecking the state's economy that the budget requires insane prices to replaces what is used for the treatment.
t. Someone whom had he been born in Europe would have been put in a jar to be dissolved in lye because Europe's "free" healthcare's budget didn't allow for anyone born more than a week prematurely to live
>>71281073
This attitude is the root of the problem.
>Medical services and pharma overcharge out the ass because they know they can get away with it
>"Don't worry about what it costs, insurance will pay for it!"
>Insurance company passes all those expenses right back onto their policy holders by charging ever-higher premiums
It's a goddamn racket, is what it is.
>>71279041
Holy mother, over 60k for a "minor procedure"?
> mfw some Americans are happy with this.
>>71302735
Well my dear anons, the reason is quite simple actually:
The cost is so high because it requires a knight of the government fiefdom of Doctors to command with holy authority a squire of the government fiefdom of Nurses to administer you one. Then the Fiefdom's dukes and duchesses must hire court jesters to draw up writs of payment, write detailed explanations for why the use was necessary, and requisition further flasks of holy water from traveling merchants all in the employ of the government fiefdom of HHS.
Where you see a bag of water, the truly enlightened see the miracle of efficiency brought about by the divine hand of government. May it forever reign over us, direct us, and make us better people.
Amen.
>>71277571
If they can get away with it then they do it, that's what freedom means. Who's going to prevent them if it's all private run? I remember when worker unions weren't all private owned by CEOs they should be fighting against. Doctors are even worse if uncontrolled, especially apparent when you get older, then they put you on dead bed and charge you money, pretending they are trying to save you.
>went to hospital a few months back
>no insurance
>4 hour stay
>xrays
>one of those bag IVs
>blood test
>urine test
>7000 dollarydoos
>dont pay
>get pestered for 3 months
>new hospital bill arrives with "uninsured discount"
>$860
So why charge me $7000 first and pester me for 3 months, Schlomo? Think you can get money that easy?
Oi vey!
>>71286293
>ekg
>800$
xaxaxaxaxaaxxaxaxaxaxa
>>71303282
OP was the target of that bit of divine wisdom.
>>71279732
Jesus was a jew, so...
>>71298972
ye i just buy anything i need without a doc. Fuck them, 95% of them are no better than google or their education is outdated for modern medicine
>>71277993
Jesus fuck you brainwashed peasant
>>71277571
I have lived in several different countries (britain, SK, Japan)
Some with national healthcare, some with private care only.
Americas system is broken and fucked. SK does private healthcare right
With insurance I can get in to see a doctor asap and pay less than 15 bucks for the care and the medicine combined. America is fucking broken. Its a third world disgrace. I fucking hate our health system here its an international embarrassment.
>>71303312
If possible avoid sleeping in hospital, especially without insurance, that costs a lot of money. Some doctors will try to cuddle you in the bed if you got a stuck fart.
>>71277571
Shitloads of red tape and waste. You think government acquisitions is bad? Think again.
Also hospitals often intentionally overcharge to squeeze money out of Medicare/insurance companies. You can easily haggle it down.
>>71279041
>the healing ministry of Christ
>$135k
oh
>>71281073
Everyone in the system pays for this horrible overcharging. People like you who say OH ITS OK INSURANCE WILL JUST PAY EVERYTHING XD is a large part of why the system is broken in the first place.
>>71288798
Do you already have a house? Because then you don't really need that credit vs going completely broke paying for hospital bills.
>>71303476
You know what I really love? University health care.
Free doctor consults, like 70% discount on procedures beyond that, and prescription meds are like 60% off at least, all without insurance. And since Im on the gubmint dime through my entire college career, I dont even pay the med fees in tuition costs.
>mfw walking out of uni pharmacy with 2 prescriptions costing $60 each anywhere else for $15 total
So good. It has to be what other countries enjoy. Im going to abuse that medical care as long as I can before I graduate.
>>71277571
lets say you got no money and you require a treatment or you are done. will they just let you die?
>>71279041
Do they perform surgery with diamond encrusted gold tools that they throw away afterwards?
>>71304030
Depends.
Need an organ transplant? You dead.
A bullet removed? Treated.
>>71286293
I guess owing 121k is worth not dying. That mother fucker had everything done to them.
>>71289670
"Libs are naive, holy shit!"
Seriously. I can't wait for Trump to veto this shit. It's just getting a bunch of rich people even richer while the middle class is shaken upside down like nerdy schoolchildren.
>>71286241
School, maintenance, and application are expensive
I forgot this story.
>mom diagnosed with cervical cancer
>would cost at least $50k to get treated and removed in US
>mom goes to mexico
>gets it done and treated properly and cleanly
>$6500ish total
>>71286293
I'm never leaving Canada. The idea is losing a huge portion of my life savings to a hospital visit is horrifying.
>>71303048
In what country senpai? I was born like three weeks prematurely and I've never heard about such things.
>>71303774
Just don't abuse medication too much, since if you need prescription that means it got side effects. When they find some medication is safe to use it doesn't needs prescription no more.
>>71278363
Thank God vision insurance is so cheap. That's my only major problem. Fuck medical care - I'll become vegan if I have to. Or die. I'll go ahead and die if my expenses will possibly exceed 100 grand.
>>71277883
It probably costs more for you comrade, it's just taken out as tax instead.
>>71281759
I did the same last year. Cost me about $40. You rarely pay more than $50 when going to the doctor, regardless of what tests and machines they use. If your medical bill (including hopstial, consultation, lab work, surgery and medicine) goes above $300 for a year, medical services and medicine are free for the rest of the year. If you're in a rush or just don't want to use public healthcare, you can always go to a private practioner and get it done there at full price. It still doesn't cost nearly as much as in the US, where the prices seem to be artificially inflated.
That being said, my views on universal health care varies depending on the country. I don't think the US should have it, because the white middle class would essentially be paying for the health care of all minorities. If the US was 90% white, I think universal health care would be worth considering. For Norway, I support universal health care 100%, because we're a small, rich, mostly homogenous society.
>>71283205
>Modern medicine is full of pretentious, under educated, egotistical, over paid fuck faces.
Replace modern medicine with 'tech workers' and that works too.
>>71286293
My mother spent 4 days in the hospital and doctord made everything except the operation stuff, (thats for later this month)
Total price. $0.00
>>71304286
Beautiful isn't?
>>71283205
Is the internet making the average joe believe they actually know more than professionals or it's simply people with inferiority complex?
This kind of mindset is what created the parents giving bleach enemas to their kids thinking they will kill the parasite that causes autism.
>>71278357
If We need our diapers changed we'll be sure to call
>>71305385
We've been taught to be scared to death to treat ourselves, but the human body is stronger than that, and people have been ridding themselves of ailments since the beginning of time. As Americans many of us live unhealthy lives by default but good diet, exercise and minor drinking/smoking can keep one out of the hospital for years and years.
>>71286293
>buy a house and live with cancer and die few years later
>remove cancer and live years on the street
>at least the government don't tell me wich hospital i had to choose
>>71277571
>people paying for it with other people's money in the ER.
Cost effectiveness goes out the window when you aren't accountable.
my family in the us comes to south africa once a year to do the kids dental work.
it works out cheaper to fly here for a 3 week vacation and get the work done than to do it in the usa. much cheaper.
